"Another imaginative feature that SOE is offering to subscribers is what they are calling “non-recurring” subscriptions. Basically, players can subscribe for 3, 6 or 9 months with a firm end date. At the end of the subscription period, players will either need to re-subscribe or their access beyond the F2P aspects will cease."
Wtf? They seriously think that this is imaginative? Making it slightly more convenient to cancel a sub at a specific time is imaginative? This is all quite pathetic.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
"]Players already on the Gold Subscription will stay there. Silver subscribers will stay there. Free players who choose to stay cost-free will remain there as well. "
Which means, in order to access all game content one will still need to subscribe... No, thanks.
This is similar model that DDO uses. I do not mind to pay for "cosmetic" items that have no connection with giving unfair advantage to paying players, or that allow access to areas otherwise inaccessible. This, however, is exactly what I do not like and it is still pay-to-play. No, thank you.
what about EQI? You would think a game that old would go f2p first.
Haha, that's a good point. You'd think that they would have only a skeleton crew running EQ1 but that thing still gets one expansion per year.
The EQ1 crowd is probably more comfortable with the subscription model so there would be no reason to change that for now.
"Does SoE not realize that people don't take free games seriously?" -goozmania
In your circle, and definitely on these forums, that is the case. However, for the majority of MMO gamers, the words 'serious' and 'games' often have nothing to do with each other. SOE probably realizes how most people want to pay for their online entertainment. After all, if they are the evil, greedy soulless corporation that people around here say they are, then logically they would shift to a business model that most people would prefer, thus maximizing their profits. Right?
Because SOE has such a solid track record of judging what thier customer base really wants?
Nothing really changed. Those who want to raid have to stay subbed to the gold plan, everybody else can play for free at the raiders expense.
Welcome to all the freeloader who will never spend a dime on eq2. I got a bad fealing about this.
Interesting tone you chose for that message of yours. You are obviously not liking players who support free-to-play model. Whatismore, you are calling names on a significant population of online players. Did some of them stole your money, house, girlfriend,...?
Have you ever thought why would game-developers decided to adopt new model of harvesting revenue? Be thankful, if those you call "freeloaders" come into your game, because obviously they will bring to game and company who made it something desirable - something that was missing.
You can remain ignorant and rude, but that will not change the facts. Just do not forget that after all you have a choice. You can play or not play this game. I know that I have no desire to do so - unless I can pay once and have all content available to me (i.e. GW model), or in the case that EQ2 has a true free-to-play model where I pay for cosmetic items from in-game cash-shop.
With other words, I made my choice without insulting people who made/make different choice.
"According to Georgeson, the industry isn’t going the way of subscription titles anymore, "
This, folks, is what you call willfully dishonest spin to help push an agenda and foster more acceptance from those who still oppose the idea (which there are still many).
Either that or it's a gross generalization made by someone who's been living under a rock.
Smedley made a similar statement some time back as well, and it was just as much BS.
The industry is not going entirely in either direction. There are new MMOs coming out that will have subs. There are MMOs that still have subs and will continue to for the foreseeable future. There are MMOs, like FFXIV, that are reintroducing subs in the near future.
People like Georgeson, and others whose companies are adopting F2P are basically trying to push this concept down people's throats that it's a binary situation; a "one or the other" dichotomy between F2P and Subs. They're selling the idea with this air of "invevitability" to try and get people to accept it as a matter of "I may as well accept and adapt to F2P if it's inevitably the future and Subs are going away".
F2P isn't, and Subs aren't. Not for the foreseeable future, anyway.
Both models are viable and quite relevant payment models that can each earn a respectable amount of money for their respective developers, so long as they can get enough people who feel they're worth the investment; that's the real trick, folks.
P2P/Subs rely on earning box and/or subscription fees over the long-term from their players. They must do this by providing a game that 1) Gamers find enjoyable enough to continue playing and paying for month-after-month and 2) Provide enough new content to keep them entertained and occupied for all that time.
F2P/Cash Shop MMOs rely on earning their revenue in the short-to-mid term, by designing specific restrictions, speedubmps and other obstacles into the game deliberately. They do this to create a demand for which they can "supply" the solutions via their cash shop. Aside from that they can also sell vanity items and, if they want to go that route, armor, weapons and other things that some may consider bordering on "Pay-To-Win" territory.
Subscriptions are a tried-and-true method, proven out over the course of 10+ years in the MMO genre, as well as far longer than that in other areas (magazines, cable services, etc. etc.). There's nothing suddenly "wrong" with them because F2P/Cash Shops are now an alternate option.
Does anyone else find it rather funny, and more than a little suspicious, that for all those years, developers and publishers - including SOE themselves - all embraced subscriptions 100% without question, even while F2P/Cash Shops had already been well-established in the Eastern Market? Yet, now that they're seeing how much more they can make with "buy-on-demand" microtransactions over "monthly subs" and are making the move to that model instead, suddenly "subscriptions are a dinosaur and are a thing of the past". That sudden change of attitude is more than a little dubious in my view.
Remarks like the one I quoted are a classic example of SOE trying to steer people toward accepting the F2P model by making such prophetic statements as they did.. even though there's no hard evidence to prove this. In fact, there is evidence to prove that subs aren't going anywhere.
They're trying to screw with our perceptions, folks. Nothing more. Don't take anything they say at surface value. Read between the li(n)es.
F2P/Cash Shops are an alternative to Subscriptions. They're not a "replacement".
kinda fucked up that they say the old way was..to paraphrase...make a game then hope the expansions are good enough to keep subscribers. Instead of this ridiculous idea...we can now go F2p and not give a shit if we have quality content in the future.
"According to Georgeson, the industry isn’t going the way of subscription titles anymore, "
This, folks, is what you call willfully dishonest spin to help push an agenda and foster more acceptance from those who still oppose the idea (which there are still many).
They're trying to screw with our perceptions, folks. Nothing more. Don't take anything they say at surface value. Read between the li(n)es.
F2P/Cash Shops are an alternative to Subscriptions. They're not a "replacement".
personally, I really dont know
but recent press news do lend him credit -- 2 different reports
Report: 47% Of MMO Spending In U.S. Comes From Free-To-Play MMOs
PC game subscriptions in North America and Europe declined in 2010 for the first time since the group began monitoring the sector in 2002.
The cause of the decline, according to the report, is an increased industry-wide focus on microtransactions, which were up 24 percent to $1.13 billion across the North American and European online game markets in 2010.
There are trends that occur because the market drives them and then there are trends that occur because the manufacturer pushes them.
It's no surprise that when quite a few big sub based models decide to switch to f2p that sub based revenues dip and f2p revenues jump. Not to mention those models tend to have very loose definitions of what actualy constitutes an MMO (i.e,. Farmville = MMO)
I'm not discounting that there may be a genuine trend in increased F2P revenue (F2P is a payment model that is pretty new to the Western market...so that shouldn't come as a big surprise) but one needs to keep a pretty jaundiced eye toward market research that is released freely for public consumption....there is usualy an agenda driving such things....one also needs to understand that the very nature of market research and market research firms falls very much in line with Mark Twains quotes about statistics.
I see very much the same thing in my industry as well....every year or couple years there is a new buzzword.... accomponied by much hoopla by "industry analysts" and market reports and journalists posting articles about how it's the "best thing ever" and how the entire industry is going that way....and you'd be an absolute fool not to jump on that bandwagon.
If you are smart, you quickly realize that is all designed to do one thing.....sell you something that 70% of the time you really don't need or isn't a very good solution for your particular situation. Funny that 70% of the folks that go chasing after those butterflies go bankrupt within a couple of years.....while our company is still hear.
There is, usualy, some kernal of truth to some of those "buzzwords", in that they can be usefull in very particular situations.......but usualy the degree to which they are hyped bares little resemblence to the practical applicability..... doesn't stop alot of people from wasting money on them though.
THIS GAME WOULD BE ALIVE AND KICKING IF THE DIDNT MAKE ANY CHANGES THE 1ST TIME TO PVP AND PVP SERVERS..oops caps on..imo its what drove many away to begin with..their subs started to drop and then what does soe do? ..dumb it down even more for the masses in hopes to gain more subs..i lost all faith in eq2 and hope it dies
but i still have my fingers crossed for eq:next LOL
"Another imaginative feature that SOE is offering to subscribers is what they are calling “non-recurring” subscriptions. Basically, players can subscribe for 3, 6 or 9 months with a firm end date. At the end of the subscription period, players will either need to re-subscribe or their access beyond the F2P aspects will cease."
Wtf? They seriously think that this is imaginative? Making it slightly more convenient to cancel a sub at a specific time is imaginative? This is all quite pathetic.
I dont understand your logic
NOTHING has changed with soe existing subs - offering 3mo, 6mo, etc (like many other p2p mmos)
eq1 is fun. far more to do in that game than any other. Old content is still important and replayable. I think the interface turns off a lot of people from playing. the graphics are oldschool and the game feels more like a mud.. which some enjoy.
the game is also more difficult than most, but requires a lot of time if you're into getting your character as high as possible
as for eq2.. it feels like other games where you're following simple instructions from questgivers, over and over.. not much discovery involved
I was excited to rejoin EQ2 for a year or so, when the new expansion comes out... now it's completely dead to me. Does SoE not realize that people don't take free games seriously? Most players don't invest into free games or care for their characters; they are just "throw away" games, as the player waits for a subscription game that doesn't suck.
You nailed it. Though, I do love the propaganda that companies spew out when they go F2P (Fail to Pay lol...).
“It’s what’s best for players playing the game,” Georgeson said. EQ 2.
LOTRO is one of the most successful MMOs in the world and has been doing very well as a subscription-only game, but with the success we’ve seen with DDO it seemed clear that this move is going to be hugely beneficial for the LOTRO community. Kate Paiz, Executive Producer LOTRO
‘Age of Conan: Unrated’ into the world of free-to-play games, a gaming space that is becoming rapidly more popular and profitable across the board. Creative Director Craig Morrison
"DCUO now joins the ranks of SOE's other successful free-to-play titles, including Free Realms and Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures,"," commented SOE bigwig Lorin Jameson.
I was excited to rejoin EQ2 for a year or so, when the new expansion comes out... now it's completely dead to me. Does SoE not realize that people don't take free games seriously? Most players don't invest into free games or care for their characters; they are just "throw away" games, as the player waits for a subscription game that doesn't suck.
----------
Who you speaking for? I hope you aren't attempting to speak for me.. A game is a game whether pay to play or not. You people really amuse me.. I really think you all need your head examined. You would rather throw away your money on a pay to play game and complain when it goes free? I would love the two games I play to go free. I don't like them being limited to my damn pocketbook. I don't like wondering if in the future whether or not i will have the funds to keep playing.. If they were free I would not have that to worry about. You people are just ridiculous.
what this means to Freeport players is that they will now be eligible for Cross server grouping
- be it battlegrounds or an improved dungeon finder
there are many players on Freeport who do sub (like me) and have full access except for player races
they pay 15/mo w no multimonth discounts -- cannot even try other EQ2Live servers while subbed
that said, I disagree w SOE that this a good solution for everyone
some players hate any form of f2p in their games and will quit over this
I think you didn't get the point I was making in the part of my post you quoted in your reply.
I don't understand the need to make all of the servers F2P because people who already rolled on Freeport are most likely not going to move to one of the less crowded Live servers. Many people chose Freeport because there would be lots of players there, whereas Live only has light to medium loads on it with the exception of Antonia Bayle.
So in other words, the Live servers most likely will not gain many new players because they are already on Freeport whether they want to play for free or not. Those who paid $30, or whatever the fee was, to copy their Live character to Freeport will most likely mainly remain on Freeport as well.
I don't doubt that the changes benefit Extended players more than the players on Live. How are these changes going to help those of us on Live really? They could have kept the F2P and P2P on separate servers and still allowed cross server dungeon groups.
So, sure we might get some more people to group up with at lower levels. However, this is going into that dungeon knowing that not everyone is playing with the same character abilties because Bronze and Silver have so many restrictions. I personally don't care about that myself, I will group up with someone who is nice even if their gear or abiltiies are not good, but there are lots of players in chat saying that they will not and that they will become more restrictive about who they group up with.
Not only to say that, though there was a sizeable crowd that came from Live to play on Freeport, the culture of the two populations of players between Live and Extended is different. I did not overall like the community on Freeport, which is one of the major reasons why I left it to go play on Crushbone. I can foresee lots of griping and endless debates about who is more stupid: paying or free players...
All these changes do is piss off the people on Live who did not want F2P and its possibly, eventually heavier cash shop on their servers. I will adopt a wait-and-see approach.
vanguard should go free to play it is crazy to keep that sub based
I agree....I would def play Vanguard if it went ftp, assuming it would attract enough players to make things like the auction house and grouping viable....which I think it would.
They have so many expansions that it would be very expensive for a newbie to buy and play that game.
They want your money and if they can't get it like a real MMORPG, they will get it any way they can.
Games that go F2P always start with "The standard P2P monthly sub isn't the future, F2P is or something like that. Anytime you see that run ... run fast ... run free ... run like water through a first time Mexican tourist ... just run.
Comments
"Another imaginative feature that SOE is offering to subscribers is what they are calling “non-recurring” subscriptions. Basically, players can subscribe for 3, 6 or 9 months with a firm end date. At the end of the subscription period, players will either need to re-subscribe or their access beyond the F2P aspects will cease."
Wtf? They seriously think that this is imaginative? Making it slightly more convenient to cancel a sub at a specific time is imaginative? This is all quite pathetic.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
Was interested until I read following:
"]Players already on the Gold Subscription will stay there. Silver subscribers will stay there. Free players who choose to stay cost-free will remain there as well. "
Which means, in order to access all game content one will still need to subscribe... No, thanks.
This is similar model that DDO uses. I do not mind to pay for "cosmetic" items that have no connection with giving unfair advantage to paying players, or that allow access to areas otherwise inaccessible. This, however, is exactly what I do not like and it is still pay-to-play. No, thank you.
Because SOE has such a solid track record of judging what thier customer base really wants?
Interesting tone you chose for that message of yours. You are obviously not liking players who support free-to-play model. Whatismore, you are calling names on a significant population of online players. Did some of them stole your money, house, girlfriend,...?
Have you ever thought why would game-developers decided to adopt new model of harvesting revenue? Be thankful, if those you call "freeloaders" come into your game, because obviously they will bring to game and company who made it something desirable - something that was missing.
You can remain ignorant and rude, but that will not change the facts. Just do not forget that after all you have a choice. You can play or not play this game. I know that I have no desire to do so - unless I can pay once and have all content available to me (i.e. GW model), or in the case that EQ2 has a true free-to-play model where I pay for cosmetic items from in-game cash-shop.
With other words, I made my choice without insulting people who made/make different choice.
+1
kinda fucked up that they say the old way was..to paraphrase...make a game then hope the expansions are good enough to keep subscribers. Instead of this ridiculous idea...we can now go F2p and not give a shit if we have quality content in the future.
There are trends that occur because the market drives them and then there are trends that occur because the manufacturer pushes them.
It's no surprise that when quite a few big sub based models decide to switch to f2p that sub based revenues dip and f2p revenues jump. Not to mention those models tend to have very loose definitions of what actualy constitutes an MMO (i.e,. Farmville = MMO)
I'm not discounting that there may be a genuine trend in increased F2P revenue (F2P is a payment model that is pretty new to the Western market...so that shouldn't come as a big surprise) but one needs to keep a pretty jaundiced eye toward market research that is released freely for public consumption....there is usualy an agenda driving such things....one also needs to understand that the very nature of market research and market research firms falls very much in line with Mark Twains quotes about statistics.
I see very much the same thing in my industry as well....every year or couple years there is a new buzzword.... accomponied by much hoopla by "industry analysts" and market reports and journalists posting articles about how it's the "best thing ever" and how the entire industry is going that way....and you'd be an absolute fool not to jump on that bandwagon.
If you are smart, you quickly realize that is all designed to do one thing.....sell you something that 70% of the time you really don't need or isn't a very good solution for your particular situation. Funny that 70% of the folks that go chasing after those butterflies go bankrupt within a couple of years.....while our company is still hear.
There is, usualy, some kernal of truth to some of those "buzzwords", in that they can be usefull in very particular situations.......but usualy the degree to which they are hyped bares little resemblence to the practical applicability..... doesn't stop alot of people from wasting money on them though.
THIS GAME WOULD BE ALIVE AND KICKING IF THE DIDNT MAKE ANY CHANGES THE 1ST TIME TO PVP AND PVP SERVERS..oops caps on..imo its what drove many away to begin with..their subs started to drop and then what does soe do? ..dumb it down even more for the masses in hopes to gain more subs..i lost all faith in eq2 and hope it dies
but i still have my fingers crossed for eq:next LOL
the first image is like give us money
I dont understand your logic
NOTHING has changed with soe existing subs - offering 3mo, 6mo, etc (like many other p2p mmos)
http://www.soe.com/gamepass/
what SOE added to the mix was
- the ability to pay for full access with Station Cash (not possible before even on EQ2Live)
- the perk that recurring subs earn you 500 station cash each month
if soe continues to do their occasional x2 SC specials,
station cash is half the price of subscribing
http://eq2wire.com/2011/10/29/double-station-cash-oct-29-2011/
EQ2 fan sites
That's because the pandas have been in EQ2 for years already. They're not new and they're not a playable race either.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
eq1 is fun. far more to do in that game than any other. Old content is still important and replayable. I think the interface turns off a lot of people from playing. the graphics are oldschool and the game feels more like a mud.. which some enjoy.
the game is also more difficult than most, but requires a lot of time if you're into getting your character as high as possible
as for eq2.. it feels like other games where you're following simple instructions from questgivers, over and over.. not much discovery involved
Pandas were also in EQ1. Does no one remember Stonebrunt Mountains?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Gee, what a surprise. Greed finally took over completely.
You nailed it. Though, I do love the propaganda that companies spew out when they go F2P (Fail to Pay lol...).
“It’s what’s best for players playing the game,” Georgeson said. EQ 2.
LOTRO is one of the most successful MMOs in the world and has been doing very well as a subscription-only game, but with the success we’ve seen with DDO it seemed clear that this move is going to be hugely beneficial for the LOTRO community. Kate Paiz, Executive Producer LOTRO
‘Age of Conan: Unrated’ into the world of free-to-play games, a gaming space that is becoming rapidly more popular and profitable across the board. Creative Director Craig Morrison
"DCUO now joins the ranks of SOE's other successful free-to-play titles, including Free Realms and Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures,"," commented SOE bigwig Lorin Jameson.
Everyone is so excited! lmao.
I think you didn't get the point I was making in the part of my post you quoted in your reply.
I don't understand the need to make all of the servers F2P because people who already rolled on Freeport are most likely not going to move to one of the less crowded Live servers. Many people chose Freeport because there would be lots of players there, whereas Live only has light to medium loads on it with the exception of Antonia Bayle.
So in other words, the Live servers most likely will not gain many new players because they are already on Freeport whether they want to play for free or not. Those who paid $30, or whatever the fee was, to copy their Live character to Freeport will most likely mainly remain on Freeport as well.
I don't doubt that the changes benefit Extended players more than the players on Live. How are these changes going to help those of us on Live really? They could have kept the F2P and P2P on separate servers and still allowed cross server dungeon groups.
So, sure we might get some more people to group up with at lower levels. However, this is going into that dungeon knowing that not everyone is playing with the same character abilties because Bronze and Silver have so many restrictions. I personally don't care about that myself, I will group up with someone who is nice even if their gear or abiltiies are not good, but there are lots of players in chat saying that they will not and that they will become more restrictive about who they group up with.
Not only to say that, though there was a sizeable crowd that came from Live to play on Freeport, the culture of the two populations of players between Live and Extended is different. I did not overall like the community on Freeport, which is one of the major reasons why I left it to go play on Crushbone. I can foresee lots of griping and endless debates about who is more stupid: paying or free players...
All these changes do is piss off the people on Live who did not want F2P and its possibly, eventually heavier cash shop on their servers. I will adopt a wait-and-see approach.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Haha...
Jesus, they still haven't learned their lesson? 4 races and a handful of very boring classes with EXTREME limitations/restrictions still?
They think that they accomplished something with "different ways to pay" for junk?
This has to be a joke..
I agree....I would def play Vanguard if it went ftp, assuming it would attract enough players to make things like the auction house and grouping viable....which I think it would.
Tell me I didn't just see a panda up there....
HAhAH I'm kiddn' , I know they are not a playable class.
EQ2 went F2P because:
Their sub numbers are very low.
They have so many expansions that it would be very expensive for a newbie to buy and play that game.
They want your money and if they can't get it like a real MMORPG, they will get it any way they can.
Games that go F2P always start with "The standard P2P monthly sub isn't the future, F2P is or something like that. Anytime you see that run ... run fast ... run free ... run like water through a first time Mexican tourist ... just run.