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This game will do ok, just ok.
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Hmm.. yes.
5/10
Inquisitor - light armor, force user --- game mechanic uses force pool to power abilities
Bount Hunter - Heavy Armor, uses tech weapons ---- game mechanic: weapons gain heat as they are used and need to be cooled off occasionally
Both are imperial, they cannot be mirrors.
this guys is pretty solid. eve turn your computer off and turn it back on.
Anyone know of an up to date skill list online? I can't find one, which is shocking, the NDA is lifted, and there's no skill list online yet that i can easily find. I'm not about to type this all up manually.
if you really believe what you say manually do it dont be lazy
Oh so they use a different mechanic for their "mana" explain how exactly that means that the skills are not able to be mirrors of each other? How the resource system works is irrevelant to the idea of skills being mirrored.
You are going to have to be more specific.. starting abilities include for the bounty hunter
rapid shots, which is a ranged grey damage ability
Missle blast, which is a knockback and aoe ability
You can vent heat, which is a class ability
flame thrower is an AOE ability... and so on.
On the inquisitor you have
saber strike which is a melee ability for white damage
shock which is shorter range single target
overload which is an AOE knockback ...
I mean these are just the starting base class abilities. I honestly do not know what you mean by "mirror" because when I look in the mirror, the exact same thing looks back at me (myself, usually).... but in this case a lot here is not similar, even to the point of being extremely different. So please, post the skills you mean specifically, because without specifics we both look foolish.
Played 2 characters to mid 30s and the game was exactly what I thought it was going to be, something I did not enjoy and will not buy.
Skill lists:
http://db.darthhater.com/abilities/class_abilities/bounty_hunter/
http://db.darthhater.com/abilities/class_abilities/sith_inquisitor/
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
might as well say hunters and mages are mirrors.
No, it isn't, those mechanics change the way you play the class lol. Come on now. it even changes the abilities you get, and how your advanced class reacts.
For example, the shadow gets a small force bar that regens quickly, a sage gets a large force bar that regens slowly.... this mechanic is compounded on by the way you use your abilities... it would be stupid for a shadow to sacrifice health for more force, but its a mainstay of the sage.
rapid shots is the free non power using skills BH get at level 1. sabre strike is the free non power skill inquis get at level 1, one is ranged one is melee, they do the same thing, but i'll forgive because each class needs something that's free to use at level 1.
overload is an aoe knockback that is identical to the BH jetboost.
electrocute (inquistor single target 4 second stun) identical to BH electro-dart (single target 4 second stun)
Both classes get a 1 minute CD break out of CC skill
Both classes get a 1 minute mezz on a 1 minute CD.
Both classes get a shield ability, the inquisitor one is like powerword shield, it absorbs X amount then is gone. BH shield is a 25% damage reduction for a set amount of time.
Both classes get a 3 second channeled single target damage skill. Force lightning for inquis, unload for BH, both classes have talents that enable this skill to have it's CD either removed or lowered and its damage increased.
Both classes have a 20 minute CD skill that resets the CD on their 4 second single target stun and regens 2% health per 3 seconds for 1 minute.
Both classes get a talent system mechanic that allows them to "proc" their damage skill 30% of the time if they spec for it.
Missile blast is a mirror of Shock, they both CC their target for a moment. The differences are missile blast adds an AE for worthless tiny dmg and has no CD. I'm talking 12 dmg against 1k hp mobs.
As much as I hate to fuel this threads fire more...I have to say that the OP is very correct about the classes....they are mirrors of each other, not just cross faction which I can see was done for balance but still kinda lame....but also within the same faction.
I was a beta tester about 3 months ago and I played for about 3 weeks pretty heavy....so I have no played for 2 months nor did I play past 3 weeks. The game was just not for me...it was utterly boring and unexciting...same stuff I've seen anywhere. As a matter of fact, what kept me going for 3 weeks was the story and the lore....but that only carried the game so far before i uninstalled.
So in that regards I disagree with the OP about skipping story and such....I thought that was the highlight quality of the game...everything else was mediocre
As soon as that skill list gets to the level 10 skills it starts listing talents as skills, which is completely confusing the situation. It's like mixing the trainable talents and skills from WoW and putting them all into one list and saying "here are the skills".
ROFL..thanks for the laugh. lol
The problem I see here, is, he is talking about mirror class republic/empire, which is right, then he gives and exemple about the inquisitor sith empire and the jedi consulor republic, up to here it's all good. But right after, he compare bounty hunter and inquisitor, he says they are mirrors, but they are on the same freaking side, which is empire.
Atleast compare, jedi with sith, bounty hunter with trooper and smuggler with imperial agent, it'll make more sense.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Why waste time comparing the most obvious mirrors? What a lot of people don't know yet is that even classes same faction are mirrored to a large degree. I've already given an example of this. BH and Inquisitor are largely mirrors of each other, not identical mirrors, there are some skills thrown in to make it less obvious. Factor in that their resource mechanics function slightly differently and they were different gear and it seems that's enough to fool a lot of people into not noticing how closely mirrored their skills are of each other.
I liked the voice acting and found it drew me into the game. And I'm a guy who never used to read quest texts. Works well in Skyrim too.
I agree on the mirrored issue - in fact there should be ZERO mirrors of any class. Similarities are fine, mirrors are a product of two things, (a) fear that players will complain that B side gets something better than A side (remember the shaman vs paladin arguments in WoW?) and (b) lazy developers who assume players are too infantile to need anything more in depth.
But I want to use this discussion to point out a few other things that have given good reason for the devs here to make the game in this way. Sorry if I go off topic here but I do feel this is actually related.
The problem I am seeing is that they did what all mmorpgs do that build on something that has already been done before. I am not talking about WoW cloning here, though the battlegrounds instancing is moronic and turns an mmorpg into a video game...
I'm referring to SWG (Star Wars Galaxies). Here, you have a game that even Sony at one point admitted making misjudgments with. They basically made a number of mistakes with a game that was beloved of many many fans. But something magical in the industry occurs whenever there is a massive player base consensus, THEY GET IGNORED.
It's an uncanny effect where players find out the hard way (as SWG died), that their views do not compare to the views of the developers.
So why in heck is SW"TOR ignoring all the good things about SWG? It takes a very small IQ to realize that there is a huge Star Wars fan base that played SWG and wants to see a lot of what they loved there - in this SW:TOR title.
This is sad, considering if 1 million people voted that Big Macs were terrible, I am sure McDonald's would do something to try to remedy the problem. In SWG, the game was changed quite a bit, and within a few months a majority of the player base left. Sony was forced to make a choice, "Admit the mistakes and revert to the original fantastic title, or move along, shift into denial, create a propaganda machine that boasts success and creativity, and then smile as they sink into quicksand."
Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings, Vanguard Saga of Heroes, DC Universe Online, Champions Online, the list goes on and on. All of these companies had to either listen to their player base or do what they personally saw was the best idea. Sadly, for these companies, it's the mob that rules, not the handful of remaining developers who have the arrogance to subscribe only to their own personal vision.
You developers have to remember that WE pay your checks. WE choose you over something else only if YOU deserve it. In regards to SWG and SW:TOR, where is the creativity? Can we build bases? Are their crafts for building turrets and droids, etc.,? How involved is the player in this game or is this just a star wars universe built into an eventual Free to Play model because the player base falls off after 6 months?
The pew pew BG instancing here, the mirrored classes, this is all vanilla. People will get bored after a while. The game will slip into free to play (The devs will boast at how this is a great choice for their customers and the propaganda will flow as it does with all titles).
I'm going to compare this product to commercial wrestling. In the beginning, adults flooded the consumer market for popular wrestling. In time, children flooded the market and in return, the entertainment became more childish and simplified. The WWE is nothing more than Jerry Springer with better actors. SW:TOR is a result of this same phenomenon (where children replace adults in an entertainment genre)....they will be appealing to a young population. hence the pew pew Battlegrounds and videogame'esque look of this title. SWG was built for a more mature audience.
My hope is someday somewhere, a financially supported mmorpg is made for older players. For us educated, well read folks, we would like something more that we can sink our intellectual teeth into.
As the OP said - this game will do ok, just ok, because that's about the best you can expect nowadays from titles that are gear toward a young audience.
/rip creativity
GOin back and looking at the OPs post history, he is an EvE palyer and a huge sandbox enthusiast that thinks when SWTOR fails, all MMOs are suddenly going to be sanbox games and he'll finally be in his own personal MMO nirvana.
His OP is even backtracking on his previous rants about how SWTOR will lose most of it subs during early access lol.
It's game. It wont fail as long as they have developers who are working to make it better. we have many MMOs coming soon some good, some bad. but the ones that cost 200+ milion dollars tend to set trends. I agree sandbox gaming should be a huge hit in the industry.
But since none of us have any kind of millions to make one we would love, we are left to forage the MMO landscape to find that one game.
TOR will do fine. if you don't have something postive to say about it, at least do us a favor and explain what you don't like. if you claim to be a tester and then the next turn you spend a great deal of time not providing specifics that only a true tester would know. then i will not read the wall of text.
Provide some details about your supposed long term beta testing you did, and then maybe you wont be just another troll mad that everyones on to them.
Your original argument was poorly argued and had a variety of logic problems. Just concede that and move on. We appreciate that you don't like the game, but let's just say that you coming in here and arguing that everything is a mirror or that the game is too balanced is just a non-starter. Think for a moment, if you have a player coming into Eve and complaining that Amarr ships and Caldari frigates are essentially the same because they fly and blow things up, then the burn from the player base would be alarming as well. However, from a particular perspective, the argument is valid.
Look, there's nothing wrong with having an opinion. If anything, you are getting burned for providing poor logic and support to back up your assertion. Have fun.
OP gives the game a bad review, then says he will be playing it at release. Sad, really.
First of all, at its PEAK, SWG had in the area of about 400-450k subscribers. At its peak. So it's safe to assume the world isn't exactly overrun with SWG fans clamoring for that type of game again. I have no issues with SWG as a game, or some of the things they did with it, lack of content or numerous bugs notwithstanding, but BW has made it very clear from the beginning that they were going to model their game after a much more successful model: The themepark model, or the WoW model. This might surpise you, but not ALL Star Wars fans are sandbox fans. In fact, I'd bet more of them are themepark /WoW fans than sandbox fans, if we extrapolate the preferences of all mmo players to Star Wars players. So, now you have Star Wars fans (a huge player base) and the casual themepark fans (currently the largest audience in MMOs). Now, explain to me why this isn't the absolutely correct business decision, putting all our biases towards either genre aside?
As far as listening to the players, that works to a degree, and is essential to a degree. But show me developer that does everything their playerbase suggests, and I'll show you a horrible game. Here is a newsflash: Most mmo players are idiots, at least in terms of what they want, and what is feasible to do. You want an open world setting and no questing? Great, then you lose the content. You want non-instanced player housing and cities? Great, then you get a vast open world with nothing in it. You want FFA open world PvP in every zone? Great, then you risk driving away a lot of players due to the frustration of getting genked by high level jerkoffs. Full loot PvP? Bye bye community. Now, I'm not saying all of those things, or even any of them, are bad to have in a game. I'm just illustrating that these are the decisions a developer has to weigh when they are making a game. Players are too short-sighted in that they want what they want NOW, but don't realize the long-term effects of a certain aspect being in the game. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm going to trust my content to the experts, not some raging nerd who is angry because he doesn't get to gank some low leve noob in Dromund Kaas.
That being said, BW has stated that after the game is launched, "It is all about the player." In other words, if the players want certain things in the game, and its feasible to do, they will do their best to get it in there. This is why Daniel Erickson has not ruled out the possiblity of free form spaceflight for the future, because he understands that it may be something that players want. If they feel that people aren't utilizing the current space combat system enough, they'll adjust it. What's currently in the game now is not what's going to be there forever. Things will change as they need to be changed. Should we believe BW when they say it's all about the player post-launch? Maybe, maybe not. But if the rate at which they've addressed player concerns in beta, and various bugs that testers have found, is any proof, I think there is a very good chance this will be a player-friendly company. They've already completely overhauled PvP and made it more diverse than they had originally planned due to player feedback. The WAR pvp developers didn't get brought into the SWTOR project for nothing.
But a company that ONLY listens to its players, and doesn't hold true to its own vision of what the game should be, or have a vision at all, will fail every single time. And btw, SWTOR isn't going to be "just okay," so you can put that retarded puppy to bed right now. It's going to be GREAT, but only for those people who enjoy that type of game. And there will be enough of those people to make it an absolute hit in the mmorpg world.
I'd say I gave it an average review, otherwise I would not have stated the game will do ok. Reading comprehension is a major fail on this forum today.
I will play at release for a month or so because dispite this game being nothing special, it at least has the new factor going for it. If you think this game is going to break any moulds or get a high amount of subscribers you are deluding yourself. It really is just another Warhammer.