I voted nay. I love Bioware games but I honestly think that they took the completely wrong direction with ToR. When the design documents were decided someone should have asked the obvious question of 'ok, Themepark MMO's are the in thing right now and doing fantastic but how will they be doing in six years time, don't you think that gamers will be somewhat burned out on them by then?'.
Obviously this question wasn't asked and sadly I think the game after a few months will be sat somewhere above WAR but nowhere even close to WoW with active subscribers. When the likes of TSW, GW2 etc. get released ToR will suffer IMO.
In 6 yrs time I would reckon themeparks are still kicking the chit out of POS sandboxes.
Railed themeparks are on the way out, hybrids will be the new 'it'. Railed themeparks are kind of like training wheels on a bike for mmo players, enough people have done it and they are getting tired of it and it is time for 'daddy' to let go of the bike.
Wow
What part of "sandbox mechanics goes entirely against the appeal of themeparks" dont you folks understand?
Uncle Owen? Who the hell needs him to have to have enforced monopoly? The thing that keeps folks coming back is chasing that next great carrot. Not to farm money to buy the same carrot ad nauseum.
Huge open areas to build on? Um hello, you have to put all that PVE content in areas. Do you really think devs should give virtual ghost towns the land, or stick their arse in an instance so that everyone gets use out of the areas? Rhetorical. Also, by having the land space reserved, the devs can alter as they please.
Open world FFA PvP? Are you friggen kidding me?
Like Everquest, there will be minor sandbox elements in some themepark games, but that 50/50 BS is wishful thinking at best. It defeats the working formula of a themepark. You know, the games that actually sell to the masses.
Heh, that rant made zero sense....Like their is a 'finite' amount of land, and no more possible in a MMO. 50/50 BS...Yeah I agree, it will be more like 25% theme, 75% sandbox for the reall great games that are to come....The rails are getting rusty.
I would of thought Raph Koster kicked your dog or something, the way you rant about him too.
Just settle down, kick back and enjoy, you can't fight the future!
What part dont you understand? I can type slower if it will help.
Yes there is a finite amont of resources a MMO server can hold. So once again....do the devs use this limited area to produce areas for PVE/PVP content, or do they reserve it for folks wanting to play house?
Koster? I dont remember mentioning that putz in this thread, but since you brought him up, then perhaps you can explain why he had to leave the MMO arena. Here I will save you the effort...it is because his ideas dont sell enough boxes. SWG major failure. Metaplace was a total failure as well.
After TOR hits, I predict at least 5 yrs of games trying to emulate it. Rinse and repeat with the next themepark to make a mark on the genre.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Yes, because I am addicted to mmos and like Star wars ip ... have to feed my hunger . Other than that I hate corporations and their money making, exploitative behaviors and BW with EA is acting very much like that. I didnt yet played the game so I like to hear critics (to save my hard earned money) because praise will do me no good because I am already leaning on the dark side.
Of course i ll play it, along with my wife and many friends. It will be the best game on the market for many years IMO. It s not a WOW clone, similarities yes, but a way better experience and overall feel.
What part dont you understand? I can type slower if it will help.
I have no idea how typing slower will make him understand any better it is not same as talking slower so he could understand you better. *rolls eyes*
The sarcasm is implied.
Slow is about his speed, since virtual anything is not so finite...
Vanguard didn't seem to have a problem with housing areas, and one of the larger themepark worlds to explore and play. Polish/lag/bugs was its launch problem that it didn't overcome, but I didn't see those devs getting some syntax 026 error error...computer virtual world space has reached critical error!
Your limited view isn't even accurate, there are 'uncle owens' in WoW, you like to cite numbers...there are 'uncle owens' in the most popular eastern mmos also....A lot of new players came on board during the first 5 or so years of WoW...Players want more variety, and improvements...Thats where hybrids come in...Your vision died with the Atari 2600, as virtually every popular MMO has 'uncle owens' in it....
Is that finite enough for you?
on topic: Yeah, I am getting it, and I hope the end game has variety, or the add more variety, havent seen enough to know. I will get my money out of it either way, it will just determine how long I play.
What part dont you understand? I can type slower if it will help.
I have no idea how typing slower will make him understand any better it is not same as talking slower so he could understand you better. *rolls eyes*
The sarcasm is implied.
Slow is about his speed, since virtual anything is not so finite...
Vanguard didn't seem to have a problem with housing areas, and one of the larger themepark worlds to explore and play. Polish/lag/bugs was its launch problem that it didn't overcome, but I didn't see those devs getting some syntax 026 error error...computer virtual world space has reached critical error!
Your limited view isn't even accurate, there are 'uncle owens' in WoW, you like to cite numbers...there are 'uncle owens' in the most popular eastern mmos also....A lot of new players came on board during the first 5 or so years of WoW...Players want more variety, and improvements...Thats where hybrids come in...Your vision died with the Atari 2600, as virtually every popular MMO has 'uncle owens' in it....
Is that finite enough for you?
on topic: Yeah, I am getting it, and I hope the end game has variety, or the add more variety, havent seen enough to know. I will get my money out of it either way, it will just determine how long I play.
Yes there are Uncle Owens.
There arent enough Uncle Owens though to change the tried n true workings of the themepark model though. No themepark is going to change the model as to cater to crafters. This is read giving them a forced dependancy ala sandbox tradesmen. Instead, crafting serves a support role in themeparks. Not a focus.
Unlike sandboxes, which is centered around both PvP and crafters, themeparks cater to those wanting PVE content. It also rewards those players in the form of gear. It doesnt pull a sandbox maneuver, and force folks to keep buying the same gear from crafters. What do you know....the PVE stuff is what folks have bought for over 10 yrs now.
So the contention that sandboxes are going to overtake themeparks is laughable at best. It hasnt changed since EQ launched, and it sure as Hell isnt going to anytime soon. PVE is what sells MMO games for the NA model. If you wanna play an Asian MMO, please feel free to.
In the meantime, it would be nice if some of you would quit spouting fiction. Sales figures and subs says you are FOS.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What part dont you understand? I can type slower if it will help.
I have no idea how typing slower will make him understand any better it is not same as talking slower so he could understand you better. *rolls eyes*
The sarcasm is implied.
Slow is about his speed, since virtual anything is not so finite...
Vanguard didn't seem to have a problem with housing areas, and one of the larger themepark worlds to explore and play. Polish/lag/bugs was its launch problem that it didn't overcome, but I didn't see those devs getting some syntax 026 error error...computer virtual world space has reached critical error!
Your limited view isn't even accurate, there are 'uncle owens' in WoW, you like to cite numbers...there are 'uncle owens' in the most popular eastern mmos also....A lot of new players came on board during the first 5 or so years of WoW...Players want more variety, and improvements...Thats where hybrids come in...Your vision died with the Atari 2600, as virtually every popular MMO has 'uncle owens' in it....
Is that finite enough for you?
on topic: Yeah, I am getting it, and I hope the end game has variety, or the add more variety, havent seen enough to know. I will get my money out of it either way, it will just determine how long I play.
Yes there are Uncle Owens.
There arent enough Uncle Owens though to change the tried n true workings of the themepark model though. No themepark is going to change the model as to cater to crafters. This is read giving them a forced dependancy ala sandbox tradesmen. Instead, crafting serves a support role in themeparks. Not a focus.
Unlike sandboxes, which is centered around both PvP and crafters, themeparks cater to those wanting PVE content. It also rewards those players in the form of gear. It doesnt pull a sandbox maneuver, and force folks to keep buying the same gear from crafters. What do you know....the PVE stuff is what folks have bought for over 10 yrs now.
So the contention that sandboxes are going to overtake themeparks is laughable at best. It hasnt changed since EQ launched, and it sure as Hell isnt going to anytime soon. PVE is what sells MMO games for the NA model. If you wanna play an Asian MMO, please feel free to.
In the meantime, it would be nice if some of you would quit spouting fiction. Sales figures and subs says you are FOS.
Maybe you need to read slower, as I said hybrids...and I didn't see anything where a sandbox couldn't be focused on pve also, ones I really liked have been more focused on pve, than pvp....since you brought it up.
Read slow, a few times, and find the word HYBRID...I didn't say sandboxes were the development cycle/trend, as they are not. Sandboxes will probably never be the majority, just as railed themeparks may never again dominate, once the hybrids hit. Technology/AI has improved to allow more.
Originally posted by dubyahite Originally posted by Beachcomber Nae I'll be playing this weekend but wont buy it this year. Maybe 2012 sometime. Oh and i hate playing pet classes.
Companions aren't pets. They're sentient humanoides geez. They're more like your imaginary friends.
Or dolls. You can dress them up or (as many people did in the beta) have them run around naked.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What part dont you understand? I can type slower if it will help.
I have no idea how typing slower will make him understand any better it is not same as talking slower so he could understand you better. *rolls eyes*
The sarcasm is implied.
Slow is about his speed, since virtual anything is not so finite...
Vanguard didn't seem to have a problem with housing areas, and one of the larger themepark worlds to explore and play. Polish/lag/bugs was its launch problem that it didn't overcome, but I didn't see those devs getting some syntax 026 error error...computer virtual world space has reached critical error!
Your limited view isn't even accurate, there are 'uncle owens' in WoW, you like to cite numbers...there are 'uncle owens' in the most popular eastern mmos also....A lot of new players came on board during the first 5 or so years of WoW...Players want more variety, and improvements...Thats where hybrids come in...Your vision died with the Atari 2600, as virtually every popular MMO has 'uncle owens' in it....
Is that finite enough for you?
on topic: Yeah, I am getting it, and I hope the end game has variety, or the add more variety, havent seen enough to know. I will get my money out of it either way, it will just determine how long I play.
Yes there are Uncle Owens.
There arent enough Uncle Owens though to change the tried n true workings of the themepark model though. No themepark is going to change the model as to cater to crafters. This is read giving them a forced dependancy ala sandbox tradesmen. Instead, crafting serves a support role in themeparks. Not a focus.
Unlike sandboxes, which is centered around both PvP and crafters, themeparks cater to those wanting PVE content. It also rewards those players in the form of gear. It doesnt pull a sandbox maneuver, and force folks to keep buying the same gear from crafters. What do you know....the PVE stuff is what folks have bought for over 10 yrs now.
So the contention that sandboxes are going to overtake themeparks is laughable at best. It hasnt changed since EQ launched, and it sure as Hell isnt going to anytime soon. PVE is what sells MMO games for the NA model. If you wanna play an Asian MMO, please feel free to.
In the meantime, it would be nice if some of you would quit spouting fiction. Sales figures and subs says you are FOS.
Maybe you need to read slower, as I said hybrids...and I didn't see anything where a sandbox couldn't be focused on pve also, ones I really liked have been more focused on pve, than pvp....since you brought it up.
Read slow, a few times, and find the word HYBRID...I didn't say sandboxes were the development cycle/trend, as they are not. Sandboxes will probably never be the majority, just as railed themeparks may never again dominate, once the hybrids hit. Technology/AI has improved to allow more.
They arent going full on hybrid model. If you wanna lie to yourself then go ahead, but dont expect folks to listen.
I already explained the 3 big pillars folks look for in a sandbox. Alternative class play, FFA PVP, and game world open to modification by the player. All things that do not happen in a themepark.
PVE gamers arent going to be curtailed into using Uncle owen for their gear. They wont be forced into any PVP, and the Devs sure as Hell arent going to put out a huge world full of nothing to do.
All 3 go against what makes themeparks have appeal.
The pitiful amount of sandbox gamer subs isnt worth screwing up, and driving away the themepark crowd. Reality says you havent a clue with your claims.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I'll try it when it goes up for 7 bucks on the Steam Summer sale in about 6 months like Rift did.. so technically, yes. Just not now.
This really.
These devs have to make a choice. Either thier game is good enough for you to sub to and they dont require any or just a low, low entry fee (the EvE way), or they sell a full box with no sub (Guild Wars). Eating your cake and having it too is just as bad as micropayments in my humble oppinion.
Until a developer can show me that they're serious about moving this genre forward, I'm staying far, far away from these types of games. It's just not worth my time (or $$$) anymore.
I have plenty of single player games (new and old) that I have yet to finish that'll keep me entertained for years.
On this website, AoC was hyped as the second coming. It bombed.
On this website, WAR was hyped as the second coming. It bombed.
On this website, Aion was hyped as the second coming. It bombed.
On this website, players abhor WoW. It's the most successful North American MMORPG of all time.
On this website, players abhor SW:TOR. You be the judge...
I've played it, and I love it. it's every bit a traditional MMORPG, but I believe I've finally found a game that does WoW better than WoW itself. That's really all a WoW clone ever had to do. LotRO, Rift, Aion, WAR, and AoC were all great games in some respects, but they were all lacking in critical areas that just made them feel like second rate cash ins. SW:TOR is probably the best PVE experience I've ever had in an MMORPG.
Actually SWTOR is pretty hyped as the second coming, so I put it right up there with AoC really.
Comments
I know, it's a bit too much to ask... 4 classes with linear story and star wars shoulderpads is much better.
What part dont you understand? I can type slower if it will help.
Yes there is a finite amont of resources a MMO server can hold. So once again....do the devs use this limited area to produce areas for PVE/PVP content, or do they reserve it for folks wanting to play house?
Koster? I dont remember mentioning that putz in this thread, but since you brought him up, then perhaps you can explain why he had to leave the MMO arena. Here I will save you the effort...it is because his ideas dont sell enough boxes. SWG major failure. Metaplace was a total failure as well.
After TOR hits, I predict at least 5 yrs of games trying to emulate it. Rinse and repeat with the next themepark to make a mark on the genre.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I have no idea how typing slower will make him understand any better it is not same as talking slower so he could understand you better. *rolls eyes*
The sarcasm is implied.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Yes, because I am addicted to mmos and like Star wars ip ... have to feed my hunger
. Other than that I hate corporations and their money making, exploitative behaviors and BW with EA is acting very much like that. I didnt yet played the game so I like to hear critics (to save my hard earned money) because praise will do me no good because I am already leaning on the dark side.
Of course i ll play it, along with my wife and many friends. It will be the best game on the market for many years IMO. It s not a WOW clone, similarities yes, but a way better experience and overall feel.
AT THIS POINT...nope..Fancy pve game i have to pay for doesn't get it.
Muffins by far for me! Unless of course Bioware can commission Gentle Giant to make an exclusive Darth Muffin statue.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Slow is about his speed, since virtual anything is not so finite...
Vanguard didn't seem to have a problem with housing areas, and one of the larger themepark worlds to explore and play. Polish/lag/bugs was its launch problem that it didn't overcome, but I didn't see those devs getting some syntax 026 error error...computer virtual world space has reached critical error!
Your limited view isn't even accurate, there are 'uncle owens' in WoW, you like to cite numbers...there are 'uncle owens' in the most popular eastern mmos also....A lot of new players came on board during the first 5 or so years of WoW...Players want more variety, and improvements...Thats where hybrids come in...Your vision died with the Atari 2600, as virtually every popular MMO has 'uncle owens' in it....
Is that finite enough for you?
on topic: Yeah, I am getting it, and I hope the end game has variety, or the add more variety, havent seen enough to know. I will get my money out of it either way, it will just determine how long I play.
Yes there are Uncle Owens.
There arent enough Uncle Owens though to change the tried n true workings of the themepark model though. No themepark is going to change the model as to cater to crafters. This is read giving them a forced dependancy ala sandbox tradesmen. Instead, crafting serves a support role in themeparks. Not a focus.
Unlike sandboxes, which is centered around both PvP and crafters, themeparks cater to those wanting PVE content. It also rewards those players in the form of gear. It doesnt pull a sandbox maneuver, and force folks to keep buying the same gear from crafters. What do you know....the PVE stuff is what folks have bought for over 10 yrs now.
So the contention that sandboxes are going to overtake themeparks is laughable at best. It hasnt changed since EQ launched, and it sure as Hell isnt going to anytime soon. PVE is what sells MMO games for the NA model. If you wanna play an Asian MMO, please feel free to.
In the meantime, it would be nice if some of you would quit spouting fiction. Sales figures and subs says you are FOS.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Maybe you need to read slower, as I said hybrids...and I didn't see anything where a sandbox couldn't be focused on pve also, ones I really liked have been more focused on pve, than pvp....since you brought it up.
Read slow, a few times, and find the word HYBRID...I didn't say sandboxes were the development cycle/trend, as they are not. Sandboxes will probably never be the majority, just as railed themeparks may never again dominate, once the hybrids hit. Technology/AI has improved to allow more.
Not worth my time or money.
As soon as GW2 is released, I'll probably loose track of the days let alone pay attention to any other MMO.
Nae
I'll be playing this weekend but wont buy it this year. Maybe 2012 sometime.
Oh and i hate playing pet classes.
Companions aren't pets. They're sentient humanoides geez. They're more like your imaginary friends.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Or dolls. You can dress them up or (as many people did in the beta) have them run around naked.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
ditto ! @kalinis
They arent going full on hybrid model. If you wanna lie to yourself then go ahead, but dont expect folks to listen.
I already explained the 3 big pillars folks look for in a sandbox. Alternative class play, FFA PVP, and game world open to modification by the player. All things that do not happen in a themepark.
PVE gamers arent going to be curtailed into using Uncle owen for their gear. They wont be forced into any PVP, and the Devs sure as Hell arent going to put out a huge world full of nothing to do.
All 3 go against what makes themeparks have appeal.
The pitiful amount of sandbox gamer subs isnt worth screwing up, and driving away the themepark crowd. Reality says you havent a clue with your claims.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I'll try it when it goes up for 7 bucks on the Steam Summer sale in about 6 months like Rift did.. so technically, yes. Just not now.
This really.
These devs have to make a choice. Either thier game is good enough for you to sub to and they dont require any or just a low, low entry fee (the EvE way), or they sell a full box with no sub (Guild Wars). Eating your cake and having it too is just as bad as micropayments in my humble oppinion.
So i'll buy it when I can get it cheap.
Nay.
I'm semi-retiring from the MMO genre.
Until a developer can show me that they're serious about moving this genre forward, I'm staying far, far away from these types of games. It's just not worth my time (or $$$) anymore.
I have plenty of single player games (new and old) that I have yet to finish that'll keep me entertained for years.
Actually SWTOR is pretty hyped as the second coming, so I put it right up there with AoC really.
A big fat NO THANKS.
There is only 1 MMO that everyone will be playing and that is PlanetSide 2 not this unoriginal EQ clone.
STO clone.