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Mourning- Unethical Business and Horrid Game
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[quote]2: 0% is way exagerated. Even if the game was/is far from complete, the basis of a good part of the concepts was in. Even if it sure needed/needs a ton of work for these concepts to be considered "complete and working" [/quote]
Sorry bud... was in beta... Played release for a day... not one... not a single one of the listed features were implemented... and NONE of them were going to be released any time soon... When the devs were asked when "X" feature was to be implemented the resposne was almost always the same... First we want to get the game working smoothly before we think about implementing "X" feature.
This is Me
Here is Zaxtor's second review : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/51/loadthread/42967/setstart/1/loadclass/35
No double charging. No talk of refunds (he actually canceled and never was charged the monthly price). The score is actually 36% and didn't say it was a hopeless crap but "This game could get much better in time."
I wonder why I even waste my time answering you Bitey.
Here are the facts Daramer wake up!
Even if some of the points are true, a vast majority isn't or is presented in a very biased way.
Have problems answering the questions of your dishonest old quotes out of context don't you......just keep going off topic.
That doesnt change that fact that you took a out of context quote from a old post that gave it a 36 percent and is nearly all negative. You edited and posted a link(which you got from Derfel's post). You took one postive element and ignored everything. Then you ingore all new post and fail to include full posts instead using of small quotes.
Zaxtor has made his opinion clear and has warned people from even touching mourning. He calls its "Mourning CD of Crapcode" and "I won't play the game for free". He doesnt need to write a new review just to stop dishonest ppl as yourself from taking things out of context from old posts.
" going with the flow of the flaming bandwagon isn't a valid enough new element)"
Ah yes. When you disagree with current events, you choose not to include and ignore it. However, you are more then willing to take old statements that you agree with.
double
Mourning is, was, and always shall be: V A P O R W A R E
Until they release a game on CD that actually works I'd stay far far away from this title. For those who got burned: Learn from it and move on. I can't believe this thread is 89 pages.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Wow I was pretty sure this thread was dead. Then along comes Daramar and for some bizarre reason tries to defend Mourning in an effort to discredit the thread and ironically only serves to reinforce the opinions and evidence against it.
If you really believe even half your stuff Dar... Id just quit while your well behind mate..
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I see that my reviews of Mourning are now being taken apart and thrown at each side in a war, lol. Quite amusing actually.
Look. Mourning has/had its positives. I, like a lot of people, was very interested in the design ideas of the game. The idea of bloodlines and perma-death, etc. It looked like atleast the ideas behind the game were extra-ordinary in a constant stream of over-produced, too-simplifed mmo clones. But that was BEFORE the huge amounts of wrong-doing, covering up and flat out lies haunted Mournings own forum boards from about January onward to its late release.
When I played the game in May just to get a real feel of what the game was like, I had seen so much negativity and chaos (especially on the Mourning boards themselves) I expected nothing of the game. In fact I expected the game to not even run. It did. And this shocked me so much at 3am or so when I first graded it, that I too quickly gave it way too high of a score. But I did see a lot of the hard work behind the game. I did see that the makers of the game did have something a lot of games don't - and that's true passion to atleast try and make a great game.
That's about the end of the positives for this game in the end though. The game was full of crashes, bad coding, errors, predictable mobs and mob patterns, and the game was extremely boring. It was fun to explore the world the first couple of hours, but after that, it got very tedius and time consuming to just try and put together the honest, devoted review that I had promised on these boards. That review wound up at a more then fair to Mourning 36% score and was probably still a score that was given extra credit marks simply for showing me that true passion was behind the people who coded the game. But unfortunately, all the passion in the world doesn't equal up to a working, fun-to-play game. And I was honest, when I said that if the game got the right attention from the right people who knew how to fix the problems and add all of the promised features, and if it got suitable servers, it could be a great game. But that is a huge "if" and not likely to happen... especially with the kind of people and the devs they have now. No matter how great a game is (and this one sucks currently) it will never be a hot consumer item if customers are treated with the unethical and extremely poor manner in which Mournings own fans were treated at the Mourning website.
I wish Mourning all the best and all the success in the world. But at the point at which I stopped my tiring review of the game, Mouring will need a miracle to put it where its creators hearts really are for the game.
- Zaxx
Nice post Zaxtor. One thing though, you wish Dave and Egomancer all the success in the world? After the shit they pulled, they don't deserve to be involved with the gaming industry ever again.
Hehe. I totally understand man.
But honestly, I don't believe that either of them are bad people.
They had a lot of pressure on them (granted, it was their own pressure brought on them by their own expectations and promises)... and they had a lot of eager fans who wanted to play "the ultimate mmo" which seemed to be promised to them by the empty promises made that simply werent delivered in the end.
Imagine yourself in their position. A position where you had such a grand idea and no matter how hard you worked, how much time you spent, you simply didn't have the know-how and the tools to deliver what your dreams had captured in your heart. I am not at all defending them for any of their totally unethical and insane customer service issues or for the way that they acted. They brought all the pressure upon themselves and handled everything in about the worst possible way.
My point is simple however.
Imagine a boy who has had nothing but dreams of being a super star baseball player and watched my millions around the world. He grows up with nothing but these dreams. And then in a big game as a 12 or 13 year old boy... the pressure is on him.. the dreamer. His dreams are great and his heart is good. But his heart and his dreams don't help him here. With bases loaded and behind by 2 in the 9th inning... with 2 strikes he is up to bat. The pressure could never be greater. All of his teammates. All the fans watching on the bleachers. All of his unrealistic dreams of being the best baseball player ever. He strikes out. His heart thuds with thundeous force. Tears jet out of his eyes in sheer frustration and disappointment in himself. His best friend says something to try and pick up his mood in his obvious moment of despair. And he lashes out at his friend in an uncharacteristic fashion.
The lashing out is what you saw on the Mourning boards forums at their biggest fans in their moments of heat and frustration is kinda the way I see things. I don't blame them for trying. Atleast they did try. They handled just about everything wrong. But I think when I played their game, I did see that their hearts were in the right place. And I saw how hard they worked on their dream. I don't for one moment think that this game was made to make a fortune or made for money. I think this game was attempted from the heart and it simply failed due to a probable lack of resources, funding, and the proper management needed to keep it on track and looking good on the forums, etc.
I could be totally wrong and the devs behind this game could be the worst people on earth and crooked as hell. But that isn't how I saw it when I saw and played their game.
Atleast they tried. ...Sometimes trying and failing (even as bad as they did) is still better then most people who never even take a risk and try at their wildest dream with so many odds against them.
That's how I view it anyhow. Mourning sucked. The way they handled things sucked much worse. But I think their intentions were honest and good.
- Zaxx
The game may suck atm, but it's still on the right tracks to put all the concepts in, provided they get enough time and competent ressources. If they can't find these ressources, the game is dead. If they do, the potential is here to be a great pvp game (provided they can definitively fix the main show stopper : the stalls).
But if they stay with the same amount of developpers they had at "release", and the same kind of management (which caused a lot of turnover in the developpement team), there is basically no hope. It's up to them (publishers, developpers and investors) to turn this failure in a success.
If ego had a dollar for everytime he and his loyal followers have made that statement........................... They could have bunked off with the cash even sooner
Actually Im glad you posted that... because it reminded me how ironic the name "egomancer" is in all this...
Talk about pride before a fall.....
Its a beautifull thing to watch
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
What are the real facts?
Tell us about Mourning devs and publisher qualities and what they got right.
Tell us about all the amazing features that were implemented and fully working at the moment of Mourning cancelation. (If Beta was free it wouldn't matter if a game has features missing, but since people had to pay to play beta, you need to take this into consideration when you expose your facts)
We are all ears.
The stage is all yours.........and please no bullshit.........
With all the negative press Dave and the developers have created for this game, there is no chance it will ever be a success. Their window of opportunity was back in February, five months ago, but they could not deliver, and then their stock fell.... good to see some people get what deserve, a sink hole, where Dave can put all his money.... hehe
And my point is simple, Zaxtor. Too much fraud happened for the game EVER to have good and "honest" intentions. Why is that you ask? Things like the nazi moderatored their forum board(they deleted ANY link I used as a source on my topic and banned for posting my link), how they sent out CD-RW to get around laws about charging people for a product early, or fact they tried to sue anyone they came into contact with. Or the fact, that they billed for preorders and then said they "didn't have the authority" to refund. So people got a product they didn't want without even a warning. Or check out Harelins chat logs, where Dave finds it honest and acceptable to post IP of personally enemies and even made a commnet "I'm just in it for the money". Or the fact that they didn't give a shit about their game. Sinsa, a old fanboy, said that Egomancer would just leave, say the server was going to crash but he was going home. Nobody would come until morning to restart the servers, or they would be gone for days without telling anyone. They didn't care, it was a part-time job they felt they make some extra money off.
Therefore, the conclusion must be that they were grossly incompetence and neglectful. Just didn't care about the game, was hoping to make a quick buck(turned into debt in my caculations) and really didn't give a crap about how people were paying so they could go home while the server crashed. These clowns thought it was some sort of parttime job. Then they used horrible mods and personally representives to flame the base and "sue" people that spoke out against the game.
Also, there is no debate that Dave and Egomancer are NOT nice people. Talk to old mod, NattyDread- Dave deleted 3 years of posts to get rid of evidence. He then banned Natty after he volvuataritly left. Dave was a bitch, creating alternative egos to flame his fanbase. And found suing people very fun. Read this by old mod Spoonbender (someone way closer to the game then you) about Dave- http://plaguelands.com/?p=42 . Or how about this chat log- http://plaguelands.com/?p=12. hmm....doesnt sound like a nice guy?
And regardless of motives, they don't need to be involved with the gaming industry again. That is something we can all agree on. It unacceptable to run a game, release in alpha, charge your fanbase for crap and give there CC to some company that dave didn't even name, and then nazi mod when people speak out. If you would like the gaming industry to follow this model, fine. However, I don't need games using this dishonest and unethical treatment. Therefore, we don't need Dave's games again.
Derfel -
You are taking what I say about Mourning completely out of context. I never once said that I agree with any of the unethical things that they have done. I simply state that the people responsible for coding and programming the game were unsuccessful - but that I feel that they had good intentions as far as making a quality game was concerned. I honestly think that their biggest desire was to produce a top-notch mmo. If they were really the huge crooks that you claim and think, then why go to all the trouble and expense that they did? They could have scammed money much easier with random phone calls to old people and taking their savings $$, or even robbed a bank, or 100 other things. Again, I am not defending any of the wrong doings that they did. I was one of the huge flamers of Mournings unethical wrong doings constantly on this site. Understand that.
Re-read my last thread. I am simply pointing out that their INITIAL INTENTIONS were not where everything wound up. They made colossal and totally unethical and unfair mistakes, judgements, and made many promises that turned out to be nothing but flat out lies. They wound up with a horrid game, and very likely some of the worst game representation of all time. But my point is that I honestly don't believe that was their initial intent. They just got tangled up in their own web of deciet, wrong-doings, lies, and bad ethics. And look where they are now. Honesty and patience with their own fans would have helped them tremendously.
They deserve the end product based on all their bad behaviors and coruptness. Not many will argue that. My only point is that their initial intentions were not what they ended up doing. I don't think thay had bad initial intentions. They just took about every wrong path, and the result was a complete nightmare and ultimate failure. And I am sure that they have LOST a TON of money. Trust me, they didnt make any money in this little project.
- Zaxx
Read what I posted again. I never said they "were crooks and wanted to scam from the begining". All I said they were grossly incompetence and neglectful. The Devs at the begining were looking for a partime job to make some money off. They hoped they could make some money by half-assing a game and mabye it could turn out well. They never had even the slightest bit of dedcation to there game. Read Sinsa comments.
If Dave was serious about making a "quality experience", he wouldn't have set up a very small dev team in a old eastern block country with a small budget. He would have found some good, professional programmers in the US or EU. Not some unprofessional, first game, college kids looking for a parttime job. Hell, he didn't even a represtive that could speak English. Dave even admited he disliked the community and was looking for a way to make money. He had no dream of making a good game. He was looking for a cheap way to make some cash off a mmorpg. All he found was a crap load of debt.
Actually, to be brutally honest, I don't think that either of us can be so sure what the real intentions were with "Mourning" when it began years ago. Hehe. We can only base our thoughts on our educated guesses, and these guesses are probably based more on our own lifes experiences then they are actual facts about the initial intentions of Mourning before it even began production.
All we both know now is what so many know. Heh. And that is the end result of all their lies, corruptness, unthical behavior and poor game coding that resulted in the poor game that they released but would never admit to how flawed it was.
We know that this is not what we expect from the online games today. We know that this is not how paying customers and fans should be treated. And we know that not every promise made by a Romanian game maker comes true, lol.
Good intentions or bad intentions is really irrelevant. The end result is what matters. And this whole thread covers all of it very well I think, especially your very first post on this thread which covers it all about the best.
- Zaxx
Okay - I have to totally honest as to my level of ummm "troll-ism" on the Mourning forums back in February..
Back in February, when I was watching the Mourning forums and seeing all the promises broken, and seeing good faithful people of the game banned on their board for just simply asking honest questions.. I was literaly appalled. I started having very serious doubts as to the games legitimacy and expecially the professionalism at which its own forums were being regulated.
I reported extreme examples many time of the devs unprofessionalism and even asked serious questions about the games level of compitance over here on these boards on mmorpg.com
But one day, after seeing more and more of this garbage on their site - I decided, for what-ever reason, to register for the first time on their forums and be a complete prick. Hehe. I had fun at it too.
My registration name there was mmoplaya.
I started making threads entitled "MMO fan site to be opening soon..."
and when they clicked on it, they saw that I continued that line by saying that I was gonna host a website called "The Mourning After" for all the dumbass fans who were following the lies of BS of the devs there and a site where they could all go and talk about all the broken promises when the game came crashing down and was stopped. I told them that one day soon they'd try to log in to the forums, and the webaddress for the Mourning site and forums woule no longer be there and just come up as web address not found. And I would provide them with a site to cry, rehash old game features, fantisize about its promises if they had actually come true etc etc..
That post got bashed a few times by loyal fanboys about how much of a tard I was and how great the game was really gonna be, etc etc and soon the devs put it in the junkpile threads. Hehe.
My next post was one I posted when a lot of fans were asking questions about more undelivered promises for more screenshots that were weeks late in being revealed. So I posted "NEW SCREENSHOTS OF THE FINAL GAME CLIENT!". I explained that this picture showed exactly what the game engine was made of, hehe. And it was a popular thread as far as the number of views it got quickly, all the rabid fans wanting to see a glimse of the new screenshots promised.
When they clicked on my link on my post, a digital picture I had taken with my digital camera of a fresh pile of dogpoop in my backyard was exposed to them. As you can imagine, while I was laughing my ass off, many fans got angry and the devs quickly deleted my lovely screenshot and banned my log in from any further chaos. But, hey it was fun... and at the time it was my honest feelings and showed my anger at how they were handling their loyal fans... and it made me laugh my ass off.
Oh well. Such is done now. And the final game, good intentions or not.. was pretty close to that digital picture I took. In fact, it was a lot closer to what I showed them that day then to all the empty promises made by the devs on that website.
Anyhow, please don't hate me 'cuz I was a complete troll once. Atleast I finally admit to it now about that day. lol.
- Zaxx
Wow, that is a good ammount of trollishness. But it just wasn't crap, it's pretty clever. I think old Brando's site has kind of become a "Morning After" to whine about old game features.
Although I never was involved in spaming, there was quite a few people flooding that board in Jan/Feb.
regardless of what his points would be the track record of Mourning speaks the volumes that count. The fact that it went from open paid beta back to closed alpha is more then enough to justify the comments on how bad of business Limitless Horizons does. He doesn't have a leg to stand on.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World