2. Buying or converting items obtained from the cash shop into ingame currency
3. Being required to purchse content in order to experience all that the game has to offer---Typically, adding it all up will be more expensive that a sub.
4. Items that have a percent to Proc (RNG)
5. The psychological game you as the player are forced into playing. It's easy to say "I don't need to buy anything in the shop" It's not easy to stop thinking about it. Do I buy? Do I not buy? What happens if I do/don't buy? What's the other guy buying? How is that affecting him? Constanly wondering how my game play would be if I bought this or bought that or what could I get if I buget $x.xx per month for the shop...All that hanging over your head on top of everything else does affect your game.
2. Buying or converting items obtained from the cash shop into ingame currency
3. Being required to purchse content in order to experience all that the game has to offer---Typically, adding it all up will be more expensive that a sub.
4. Items that have a percent to Proc (RNG)
5. The psychological game you as the player are forced into playing. It's easy to say "I don't need to buy anything in the shop" It's not easy to stop thinking about it. Do I buy? Do I not buy? What happens if I do/don't buy? What's the other guy buying? How is that affecting him? Constanly wondering how my game play would be if I bought this or bought that or what could I get if I buget $x.xx per month for the shop...All that hanging over your head on top of everything else does affect your game.
I handle it easy enough and as long as the game doesnt stop my progression (i.e. - have to buy to continue - Im looking at you CoH!) then I am fine.
I have 2 subbed games, but play my F2P games more (Eden Eternal, DCUO, and Grand Fantasia). I havent spent a dime. And if I do, it will more than likely be to get more bag space for my loot As long as the prices are reasonably I dont mind throwing 5 or 10 dollars at the shop if it gets me a better experience.
In terms of mounts, as long as I have the ability (time) to get them in game I dont care if they are sold in cash shop. What typically gets me, is when Im having a great time and I want to add a bit of vanity to individualize my character. But those stories of people spending 1000s of dollars is just crazy to me. No game is worth more than a subscription (if it had one).
I guess with me I dont care what the other players are doing and am focused on what I want to do and if its fun or not. The minute it becomes 'work' or boring I quit.
It's not that it became "ok" so much as too many people were buying gold. Devs were spending a lot of money to fight it and it's difficult to justify all the resources to fight rmt when people are screaming they don't want it but the evidence is that many do.
Of course, the presence of gold farmers ruins games. So what better than to create a system where you eliminate gold farmers by allowing players a way to buy gold but in a way so as not to ruin the economies of the games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?
Actually I PAY for the balls and I PAY for the racket so I can PLAY tennis.
What you want is for me to go farm for 10 hours so I can get buy a ball and then go farm for another 10 hours for another ball and then farm for 10 hours for a racket so I can farm for 10 hours for a mount to get to the court faster so I can then play tennis.
Congrats...you still dont get it.
Playing tennis is the fun part...you choose to take 30 hours to be able to play it.
ok that is why we pay for subs, we pay for the tools for the game, now paying a cs for things like xp boost lvls, money, is like go to judge and the other player pay then to let you win the game.
you are not plying the game you are just trying to feel your e-pen bigger. but i'm sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you
So your saying there is no inherit skill in games it's all about the equipement you can buy?
that is what you tell me, how many games consider skill over gear out there?
Lets say there are three types of MMO: One that relies largely on skill, I don't think RMT has a very powerful effect on this type. Second its all or mostly about the gear but the RMT system simply provides a time vs money trade off meaning you can't get better gear either way. The third are those that are simply about money, that is you need to pay to get the best stuff.
So I think I get it, a traditional MMO generally falls into catigory 2 (maybe a F2P falls into 3) in these largely gear based games it traditionally is all about time spent. So, folks get pissed off if another player can trade money for time as this "cheats" the system. This has no relationship to actual sports at all. Maybe NASCAR if there were no limits on what you could do/spend on the car? Although there is still the skill of the driver. Pinewood derby then?
then if a no one out of blue win a race because his car was the only one with a turbo on it?, or with more hp? so he don't have to learn how to drive better or spend time training, he just go in and bough a thing no one else had, then after sometime everyone have to buy it to have a chance, all cs items do it in some degree, if it have something can go into game it will do nad make things not fun, you complain timesink is boring and all, so you shouldn't have played MMOrpg ever, a hobby is a hobby because it make you spend time on it, not paying someone or something rush all things.
I would prefer it was regulated rather than underground / black market to maintain the economy rather than create its own unofficial one behind closed doors which could lead to a two-tier / unstable ingame and even real world economy.
But these are not the only two choices... You don't need to regulate it and allow it pollute gaming in order to control it.
The whole problem can be solved through intelligent game design and policing.
Ofc those methods don't make the dev millions from fleecing weak suckers driven by impulse buying and jealousy.
The only reason there appears to be a reduction in the stigma is because more an more companies are choosing to cash in on RMT themselves rather than trying to fight it.
A lot of players still dislike RMT and treat people who partake in RMT as pariahs.
I didn't read the entire thread, but SoE has been doing this RMT thing for many years. EQ2 has a Station Cash Store and I played for 7 years. It never affected me in any way. I even bought a living room suite and one set of appearance gear from it. I think I spent, over the course of 7 years....35 dollars. And EQ2 charges a subscription AND has a cash shop. Of course NOW you can also play it free to play with the cash shop, BUT....it didn't used to be that way. It was sub AND cash shop. So this stuff isn't like...NEW or anything.
OP unless you own an MMO then you have no idea why they banned it. My view is they banned it because they weren't getting a piece of the action. That has now changed apparently based upon how many companies are offering RMT
then if a no one out of blue win a race because his car was the only one with a turbo on it?, or with more hp? so he don't have to learn how to drive better or spend time training, he just go in and bough a thing no one else had, then after sometime everyone have to buy it to have a chance, all cs items do it in some degree, if it have something can go into game it will do nad make things not fun, you complain timesink is boring and all, so you shouldn't have played MMOrpg ever, a hobby is a hobby because it make you spend time on it, not paying someone or something rush all things.
OK first off total sidetrack: I read this and went "He's been playing games too long, cars in real life don't have hit points!" Then I realized I'VE been playing them too long, cause cars DO have horsepower. Man I'm dumb. Moving along...
A hobby is a hobby because it is somehting you do for pleasure. It doesn't MAKE you spend time on it, you spend time on it because you like to.
Also, not all cash shoip items force"everyone" to buy them to have a chance. League of Legends doesn't. DDO and Lotro don't. World of Tanks doesn't.
It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems. Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it. Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.
Lets say there are three types of MMO: One that relies largely on skill, I don't think RMT has a very powerful effect on this type. Second its all or mostly about the gear but the RMT system simply provides a time vs money trade off meaning you can't get better gear either way. The third are those that are simply about money, that is you need to pay to get the best stuff.
So I think I get it, a traditional MMO generally falls into catigory 2 (maybe a F2P falls into 3) in these largely gear based games it traditionally is all about time spent. So, folks get pissed off if another player can trade money for time as this "cheats" the system. This has no relationship to actual sports at all. Maybe NASCAR if there were no limits on what you could do/spend on the car? Although there is still the skill of the driver. Pinewood derby then?
then if a no one out of blue win a race because his car was the only one with a turbo on it?, or with more hp? so he don't have to learn how to drive better or spend time training, he just go in and bough a thing no one else had, then after sometime everyone have to buy it to have a chance, all cs items do it in some degree, if it have something can go into game it will do nad make things not fun, you complain timesink is boring and all, so you shouldn't have played MMOrpg ever, a hobby is a hobby because it make you spend time on it, not paying someone or something rush all things.
So we agree Pinewood derby not tennis was the right analog.
So you wish to not only control how you play an MMO but control how others do as well so that it fits your definition. Like it or not companies have found your definition does not lead to fun for all of the potential customers they can supply their product to.
I brew beer as a hobby. I do it by starting with malted barely. I know others that start with a manufactored syrup. Although, I can give them a hard time about making "coolaid" beer I would not persume to say that they don't have a hobby because they don't spend the time on it that I do. And further I can't say that they don't have as much fun as I do doing it. If I apply your definition of a hobby maybe I shouldn't brew because I don't malt my own barely? I rushed things. At the end of the day I don't really care I exchange brew with them happly and they with me.
For MMO's there seems to be a strong competitive aspect that leads to some strong opinions on how others should play.
I didn't read the entire thread, but SoE has been doing this RMT thing for many years. EQ2 has a Station Cash Store and I played for 7 years. It never affected me in any way. I even bought a living room suite and one set of appearance gear from it. I think I spent, over the course of 7 years....35 dollars. And EQ2 charges a subscription AND has a cash shop. Of course NOW you can also play it free to play with the cash shop, BUT....it didn't used to be that way. It was sub AND cash shop. So this stuff isn't like...NEW or anything.
Nope, but because GW2 is coming out soon and the system seems to be different, it's creating a wave of delirium that is approporiate for this site.
ok that is why we pay for subs, we pay for the tools for the game, now paying a cs for things like xp boost lvls, money, is like go to judge and the other player pay then to let you win the game.
you are not plying the game you are just trying to feel your e-pen bigger. but i'm sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you
No, you pay for subs because that is the form the company chose to earn funds.
You are not playing the game, you are just trying to feel your e-peen by thinking that somehow you are better because you are willing to spend your life in a game. but im sure in your mind you are not so its useless, this genre is damned with people like you, hell the world is damned with people like you...so much so South Park dedicaded an entire episode to that which has no life...you.
See what I did there? No, you are too stupid to get it.
I am pretty sure this, in conjunction with your other posts, constitutes bannable behavior. Calling people stupid constantly.
As long as it doesn't affect my personal enjoyment of the game, I don't care. if someone with a credit card can pwn me left and right and keep me from being able to do anything in game because I can't compete with them, that's no fun. Thus far, the few Western games with cash shops/RMT have not stooped to that level that I have seen.
In GW2 you can now buy Gems using cash and sell them in-game for Gold. This gold can be used to buy gear, crafting materials, consumables, guild influence. In addition, you can buy loot bags and gameplay bonuses (xp, karma, rare item chance, etc) directly from the cash shop.
your paragraph sounds like blaming GW2 for pay to win. None of the things you mentioned break the game (did they say they will sell statted gear in cash shop? i think not...) only merchants sell gears, cash shop will sell fashion change for your gear.
And, you cannot buy cash shop with gold. You need gems for that (either trade with gold or buy with real money). So you got that wrong too.
You can buy in-game Gold through the Cash Shop by buying Gems with cash then selling them in-game for Gold.
You WILL be able to by anything from "epic" grade gear to consumables to crafting materials using nothing but real world cash.
In addition, the Cash Shop has "Random Item Bags" that can provide you with high quality gear.
You can buy anything from the Cash Shop using Gold. The fact that you are exchanging the Gold into Gems first doesn't change that.
Cute, acting like you know whats in the shop as it is. There is nothing out there that has said the GW2 cash shop will be selling "random item bags". Would you like to enlighten us as to where it has been announced they'd have them in the shop then? Can't. Of course you can't.
Instead of babbling like the unintelligible insane conspiracy theorist, you should actually present some solid proof to back up your claims. And no, the ArenaNet blogpost annuoncing how they are handling the shop does not constitute as proof for them selling "random loot bags".
It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems. Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it. Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.
Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2?
I voted that I dislike it but ultimately it falls into the hands of the players. If people don't use these types of services then companies will stop implementing them.
Too bad that is easier said than done...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems. Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it. Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.
Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2?
lemme loot your items on gw2 and destroy your armor,for example.
It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems. Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it. Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.
Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2?
For plex, because the hardcore veterans got to play for free as the Plex(gems) could be used for gametime(expansions) so there was a trade off in real cash terms. For the p2W cash shop, Eve players had a virtual riot and quit in droves to stop it, CCP had to stop their company expanding and back down, if only GW2 fans had the decency to do something similar rather than suddenly all cheer "Hurrah, we love cash shops they are brilliant, thank you so much". It's an embarrassment.
This BS crap about "they could not stop" it is such crap. Blizzard never gave two cents about stopping bots that were supplying the RMT farmers and it took them 5+ years to put in any security protocols to stop the insane amount of hacked accounts.
It is another "Blizzard does it so it is fine now" things. Eve players did it right and WoW players should have also done this when Blizzard tried to introduce cash shop pets and items. Eve players brought CCP to their knee's and made them publically apologize.
WoW players back in Sept 09' could have given Blizz the finger and left, but they did not. I left and refuse to go back because they have completely sold their souls to Activision. When it comes to GW2 just look at the producer NCSoft. NCSoft is not stupid and will try and insert any type of cash shop item into the game and not give a damn who leaves.
Comments
There are 5 ways Cash Shops destroy games.
1. Obtaining advantages over other players.
2. Buying or converting items obtained from the cash shop into ingame currency
3. Being required to purchse content in order to experience all that the game has to offer---Typically, adding it all up will be more expensive that a sub.
4. Items that have a percent to Proc (RNG)
5. The psychological game you as the player are forced into playing. It's easy to say "I don't need to buy anything in the shop" It's not easy to stop thinking about it. Do I buy? Do I not buy? What happens if I do/don't buy? What's the other guy buying? How is that affecting him? Constanly wondering how my game play would be if I bought this or bought that or what could I get if I buget $x.xx per month for the shop...All that hanging over your head on top of everything else does affect your game.
I handle it easy enough and as long as the game doesnt stop my progression (i.e. - have to buy to continue - Im looking at you CoH!) then I am fine.
I have 2 subbed games, but play my F2P games more (Eden Eternal, DCUO, and Grand Fantasia). I havent spent a dime. And if I do, it will more than likely be to get more bag space for my loot
As long as the prices are reasonably I dont mind throwing 5 or 10 dollars at the shop if it gets me a better experience.
In terms of mounts, as long as I have the ability (time) to get them in game I dont care if they are sold in cash shop. What typically gets me, is when Im having a great time and I want to add a bit of vanity to individualize my character. But those stories of people spending 1000s of dollars is just crazy to me. No game is worth more than a subscription (if it had one).
I guess with me I dont care what the other players are doing and am focused on what I want to do and if its fun or not. The minute it becomes 'work' or boring I quit.
It's not that it became "ok" so much as too many people were buying gold. Devs were spending a lot of money to fight it and it's difficult to justify all the resources to fight rmt when people are screaming they don't want it but the evidence is that many do.
Of course, the presence of gold farmers ruins games. So what better than to create a system where you eliminate gold farmers by allowing players a way to buy gold but in a way so as not to ruin the economies of the games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
then if a no one out of blue win a race because his car was the only one with a turbo on it?, or with more hp? so he don't have to learn how to drive better or spend time training, he just go in and bough a thing no one else had, then after sometime everyone have to buy it to have a chance, all cs items do it in some degree, if it have something can go into game it will do nad make things not fun, you complain timesink is boring and all, so you shouldn't have played MMOrpg ever, a hobby is a hobby because it make you spend time on it, not paying someone or something rush all things.
It's okay the same way solo "M"MO game play became okay.
The same way whining about balance became okay.
The same way laughing at old people falling thanks to AFV.
The majority wants / does it. So stfu already; that's basically the response I get for questioning the more vocal asshats.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
But these are not the only two choices... You don't need to regulate it and allow it pollute gaming in order to control it.
The whole problem can be solved through intelligent game design and policing.
Ofc those methods don't make the dev millions from fleecing weak suckers driven by impulse buying and jealousy.
RMT still remains as a taboo for many gamers.
The only reason there appears to be a reduction in the stigma is because more an more companies are choosing to cash in on RMT themselves rather than trying to fight it.
A lot of players still dislike RMT and treat people who partake in RMT as pariahs.
Easy words to write.
I didn't read the entire thread, but SoE has been doing this RMT thing for many years. EQ2 has a Station Cash Store and I played for 7 years. It never affected me in any way. I even bought a living room suite and one set of appearance gear from it. I think I spent, over the course of 7 years....35 dollars. And EQ2 charges a subscription AND has a cash shop. Of course NOW you can also play it free to play with the cash shop, BUT....it didn't used to be that way. It was sub AND cash shop. So this stuff isn't like...NEW or anything.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
OP unless you own an MMO then you have no idea why they banned it. My view is they banned it because they weren't getting a piece of the action. That has now changed apparently based upon how many companies are offering RMT
OK first off total sidetrack: I read this and went "He's been playing games too long, cars in real life don't have hit points!" Then I realized I'VE been playing them too long, cause cars DO have horsepower. Man I'm dumb. Moving along...
A hobby is a hobby because it is somehting you do for pleasure. It doesn't MAKE you spend time on it, you spend time on it because you like to.
Also, not all cash shoip items force"everyone" to buy them to have a chance. League of Legends doesn't. DDO and Lotro don't. World of Tanks doesn't.
I agree, easy words to write. Because I've never seen a popular game that didn't have RMT.
Which means no popular games have ever been made that had intelligent design?
I find this hard to believe. It might be so but it seems unlikely that every developer that ever developed an online game with an economy faltered.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It became ok the second the GW2 devblog said you would be able to buy gems with cash and buy gold from other players with gems. Well for many at least, there are still some that you see in the GW2 forums protesting this or voicing their concerns with it. Me, I've always been ok with it, but I always felt myself to be a minority in this, at least until the announcement from GW2.
So we agree Pinewood derby not tennis was the right analog.
So you wish to not only control how you play an MMO but control how others do as well so that it fits your definition. Like it or not companies have found your definition does not lead to fun for all of the potential customers they can supply their product to.
I brew beer as a hobby. I do it by starting with malted barely. I know others that start with a manufactored syrup. Although, I can give them a hard time about making "coolaid" beer I would not persume to say that they don't have a hobby because they don't spend the time on it that I do. And further I can't say that they don't have as much fun as I do doing it. If I apply your definition of a hobby maybe I shouldn't brew because I don't malt my own barely? I rushed things. At the end of the day I don't really care I exchange brew with them happly and they with me.
For MMO's there seems to be a strong competitive aspect that leads to some strong opinions on how others should play.
Nope, but because GW2 is coming out soon and the system seems to be different, it's creating a wave of delirium that is approporiate for this site.
I am pretty sure this, in conjunction with your other posts, constitutes bannable behavior. Calling people stupid constantly.
The exact day?
August 3rd, 2000
As long as it doesn't affect my personal enjoyment of the game, I don't care. if someone with a credit card can pwn me left and right and keep me from being able to do anything in game because I can't compete with them, that's no fun. Thus far, the few Western games with cash shops/RMT have not stooped to that level that I have seen.
Further, because no game has ever solved the problem either means that there has never been and intelligently designed online game.
Cute, acting like you know whats in the shop as it is. There is nothing out there that has said the GW2 cash shop will be selling "random item bags". Would you like to enlighten us as to where it has been announced they'd have them in the shop then? Can't. Of course you can't.
Instead of babbling like the unintelligible insane conspiracy theorist, you should actually present some solid proof to back up your claims. And no, the ArenaNet blogpost annuoncing how they are handling the shop does not constitute as proof for them selling "random loot bags".
Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2?
I voted that I dislike it but ultimately it falls into the hands of the players. If people don't use these types of services then companies will stop implementing them.
Too bad that is easier said than done...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
lemme loot your items on gw2 and destroy your armor,for example.
Let's internet
Didn't Eve already do this? So, why hasn't it been an on going rant on the Eve forums? What made it not OK for GW2?
For plex, because the hardcore veterans got to play for free as the Plex(gems) could be used for gametime(expansions) so there was a trade off in real cash terms. For the p2W cash shop, Eve players had a virtual riot and quit in droves to stop it, CCP had to stop their company expanding and back down, if only GW2 fans had the decency to do something similar rather than suddenly all cheer "Hurrah, we love cash shops they are brilliant, thank you so much". It's an embarrassment.This BS crap about "they could not stop" it is such crap. Blizzard never gave two cents about stopping bots that were supplying the RMT farmers and it took them 5+ years to put in any security protocols to stop the insane amount of hacked accounts.
It is another "Blizzard does it so it is fine now" things. Eve players did it right and WoW players should have also done this when Blizzard tried to introduce cash shop pets and items. Eve players brought CCP to their knee's and made them publically apologize.
WoW players back in Sept 09' could have given Blizz the finger and left, but they did not. I left and refuse to go back because they have completely sold their souls to Activision. When it comes to GW2 just look at the producer NCSoft. NCSoft is not stupid and will try and insert any type of cash shop item into the game and not give a damn who leaves.