Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.
Not really roadblock, your side is going to want to hold/keep supply objectivies anyhow(to upgrade keeps, rebuild doors etc).
His point still stands, someone who buys gems with $ and trades to gold can buy more Seige weapons.
Its funny watching all the people with GW2 sigs race to white knight any thread/post that may even be a "Slight" negative towards the game.
Blueprints you mean....which are useless by themselves
It doesn't matter, its still a advantage by using out-of-game means.
Example :
One side has 2,500 supply but hardly anyone has the money for weapons(which from what i've seen and read can be the case in the early going). So they are just using player damage to kill the door.
The other side has 1000 supply but someone bought a bunch of gems using $ and has a bunch of gold, he can buy a bunch of siege blueprints or give money to guildmates to buy each some and now they will take keeps/objectives infinately faster then the other group.
Trying to sweep the entire thing under the rug and say it can't or will not be a problem is retarded. It can obviously be a issue, especially in the early going.
Also based on game footage money doesn't seem to just flow in, hell was watching the guy do level 30 DEs and quest and rewards were like 2 silver currency. Now look a the cost of the "Good" siege blueprints 42s and 1g5s.
Not to Interject any unneeded reality to your post, but you say that one side might not have any money because it is early on... Given that, who exactly is providing the gold on the other side, since presumably they are not using time-machines? You do realise that you can't buy gold in the cash shop, you can only sell gems to other players, right? So the gold has to exist before you can buy it... So the best you can say is "say it is early time and one side has 2500 supply, but one person on the server bought out all the gold everyone else on his side had and is the only person who can afford siege equipment". Of course this presupposes that every other person sold him all of their gold(and didn't kill anything or sell anything after that to get more gold)... but even then, who cares?
What did you expected guys? Everything for free or what. You cant make a profit from selling only colored shirts and dragon milk. Don't pvp to much and spend your money wisely only on things that you really need
Said a few times already but might as well address it again.
The player who bought gems(player A) needs other players(Player to trade gold for the gems to have any worth outside the cash shop. Seeing this is not at gun point it was player B's choice to trade their gold for gems. So now player A can buy blueprints but we need to accept that player B gave up the right to buy a ton of blue prints to get the gems. It was not forced it was player B's decision to put his gold towards Gems and not WvWvW.
As long as you can't trade gems to NPCs for gold I am ok with it. If we find out we can trade with NPCs...I'll just get more satisfaction when a server destroys someone's $5 golem.
So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!
Sir I literally laughed out loud on this one. Well done and you make a great point.
If it has come down to arguing over a lvl 1 or 3 player being taken advantage or not for 20 minutes of gameplay because the cashshop person bought a blueprint they cannot use until supply is generated.... well the cashshop must be in pretty good shape.
At the beginning of the game a gem is going to be worth nothing! No one will have the gold to buy a gem and therefor gem holders will not make any gold. Also If one person has all the gold in the world, then multiple people have all the gems in the world. One person gains while the rest of everyone is hurting. There is no issue here, the game is still balanced around this one point that for every blueprint bought with "gems->gold" there is an equal player that cannot and has hurt their server.
This is a team game in WvWvW! There is no one player that can buy all the equipment and siege a castle on his own with all the siege equipment. He will need the help of other players to build it with supply, and then needs some to distract other players and guards of a castle/tower. Seriously who cares about these, if your team was smart you could destroy each blueprint before it was finished being made because they have no supply.
I wasn't going to comment on this because the OP's theory was pretty much destroyed on page 1 or 2. But I jsut cant let it keep going on. Buying GEMs to trade in game Gold will not change the sway of the game one bit.
So what if newb_ranger_001 buys 25$ worth of Gems and then trades them in game for gold. What does he get. He gets currency that can either be spent to help his servermates in V8, or he can spend it on the market buying armor and weapon sets from his server mates there by spreading the wealth back into the community. Gold in no way makes a player more powerful. Gold in no way gives you an advantage in V8.
Seriously there might be upwards of 1500 players spread across 4 maps in V8. Ar eyou telling me one person who bought gems and traded for gold will have any major influence in the swing of battle? Probably not. And anyways what is to say that the other servers dont have a player who did the same thing. The sheer numbers in the battles would makes the odds highly in favor of multiple players from each server being GEM purchasers.
But you keep on complaining because I managed to make it all the way through the first Guildwars Trilogy game without ever spending a dime in teh cash shop and I still have a vast wealth of items and currency stored away in my bank along with hundreds of Z keys, Travellers gifts, and like 10 different armor sets for each character.
And while you stand around whining the newb_ranger_001 just sold a bunch of GEMs for gold I will be out playing the game advancing my character and then dominating in PVP. Hopefully I can even find a tiny Violen to play a sad sad song for you as you fall further and further behind because you worry more about the cash shop and less about actually playing the game.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Then don't play. When a game has a working-as-intended mechanic I don't like, I deal with it or I don't play.
just curious, once you buy the blueprint is that it? done, now all you need is the materials? or everytime you want 1 treb you have to buy a blueprint? then, how much materials are needed to make that blueprint, i get your point, but i'm just curious as to how the siege system will work.
As others have said, you actually need supplies to build siege equipment, the bueprint is a one-time use to initiate the construction. Don't tell the whiners though, they might be very dissappointed.
Also don't tell them you don't need to bring any gold into WvW since everything you do there actually earns you gold. They might run out of things to point their fingers at, and then what would we argue about ...?
Yeah... I personally don't see that this is any kind of huge advantage. Maybe in early game it'll make a difference. I certainly remember my first year in LOTRO where I was always stuggling for cash... At the end of year two, and my semi-retiring, I've got over 300 gold and can make 5 gold a day pretty much 'accidently' just because I've got all those high-level guys and I know what to do... And I not even 'rich,' I know people with thousands of gold and nothing to spend it on...
Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.
Not really roadblock, your side is going to want to hold/keep supply objectivies anyhow(to upgrade keeps, rebuild doors etc).
His point still stands, someone who buys gems with $ and trades to gold can buy more Seige weapons.
Its funny watching all the people with GW2 sigs race to white knight any thread/post that may even be a "Slight" negative towards the game.
Blueprints you mean....which are useless by themselves
It doesn't matter, its still a advantage by using out-of-game means.
Example :
One side has 2,500 supply but hardly anyone has the money for weapons(which from what i've seen and read can be the case in the early going). So they are just using player damage to kill the door.
The other side has 1000 supply but someone bought a bunch of gems using $ and has a bunch of gold, he can buy a bunch of siege blueprints or give money to guildmates to buy each some and now they will take keeps/objectives infinately faster then the other group.
Trying to sweep the entire thing under the rug and say it can't or will not be a problem is retarded. It can obviously be a issue, especially in the early going.
Also based on game footage money doesn't seem to just flow in, hell was watching the guy do level 30 DEs and quest and rewards were like 2 silver currency. Now look a the cost of the "Good" siege blueprints 42s and 1g5s.
You've already lost. You're arguing that the gem buyers are going to sell their gems for gold and win at WvWvW because all the other players are broke. What you FAILED to account for in your premise is that if all the other players are broke, the gems will sell for little and the market will be pretty small.
You have to look at the whole system. If nobody has gold to buy prints, nobody has gold to buy gems for you to sell for gold to buy prints.
You can buy all the gems you want. I'm not selling you my gold, neither will my guildmates and neither will goldfarmers.
In fact gems will only be bought by people with high play times and who are gold rich. My prediction is that gems will be so overinflated that it would be much much cheaper to buy gold from a gold farmer than it would from the cash shop.
Why?
Gold farmers will have the majority of gold in the game, players will spend on stuff like siege items, repairs, etc. This means most players will be gold poor. Gold farmers on the other hand will be the fort knox of the game controlling the supply. They have 0 use for gems hence there won't be a big demand for gems.
At the end of the day, the people that will buy gems to trade for gold will look at an over-inflatted market because of he abundant supply of gems and little supply of gold. Instead they will have to go to gold sellers for their gold.
PvP games always invite exploits and this will be no different. Everyone talks like they know how the game will pan out or the economy of gold and gem .I am just curious going to watch this unfold .
Seriously folks, all you have to do is watch the beta WvW videos to see how silly this whole argument it. You'll see, in a world where there wasn't even time to amass great riches, plenty of seige weapons, from catapults to trebuchets to even seige golems. They're all over the place. This is demonstrated to be a complete non-issue.
Seriously folks, all you have to do is watch the beta WvW videos to see how silly this whole argument it. You'll see, in a world where there wasn't even time to amass great riches, plenty of seige weapons, from catapults to trebuchets to even seige golems. They're all over the place. This is demonstrated to be a complete non-issue.
Yeah. I saw that. The only thing I don't know is if the Beta characters were salted (given extra resources).
Seriously folks, all you have to do is watch the beta WvW videos to see how silly this whole argument it. You'll see, in a world where there wasn't even time to amass great riches, plenty of seige weapons, from catapults to trebuchets to even seige golems. They're all over the place. This is demonstrated to be a complete non-issue.
Yeah. I saw that. The only thing I don't know is if the Beta characters were salted (given extra resources).
They weren't... I forget the vids, but a couple mentioned starting out with nothing and earning bits here and there. What's neat is if you watch the WvW ones you see them getting coins for the WvW events (keep captures, dolyak escorts, etc) as well as from drops off other players, so it looks like you could just WvW and still earn the coinage to keep yourself in seige weapons as needed.
The gold cost of the blue print is still an important aspect of WvW, well mediated by supply it still gives an upper hand to the person with gold. This is one of the inherent flaws of b2p and f2p games, in order to support microtransaction and out side money they need to butcher and water down the games current systems. In all honest i think convience time saving items should be dropped entirely from the game.
While advocating for subsciption should be out of the questions, players have an extreme right to voice their conerns with what types of items will be sold in the game.
So yes you will have to put with these threads becauses its an important issue and one arenanet has mention they are still up in the air with what is sold in the item shop.
Doesn't matter how much gold you have. You can't do shit without supply. Do your research next time.
Not really roadblock, your side is going to want to hold/keep supply objectivies anyhow(to upgrade keeps, rebuild doors etc).
His point still stands, someone who buys gems with $ and trades to gold can buy more Seige weapons, thus a advantage without any "in-game" progression or play.
Its funny watching all the people with GW2 sigs race to white knight any thread/post that may even be a "Slight" negative towards the game.
Only because the possibility to trade gems for gold is there, it doesn't mean that everyone immediately will have tons of gold in the game to trade for gems, nor does it mean that everyone would be interested on item shop items as much.
Other than that as you can see from the wiki and other posters confirmations, you can stuff yourself up with as many blueprints as you want and it still won't make a difference as long as your side doesn't have the supplies to build them.
At the time you are trying to gain enough supplies to build all these things, other can get hold of the same blueprints while playing.
So the only advantage you have through this is having them "faster" but as long as you are not able to use them due to materials shortage, you just sit on them or watch how much space they take in your inventory.
Originally posted by orangerascal You can buy all the gems you want. I'm not selling you my gold, neither will my guildmates and neither will goldfarmers. In fact gems will only be bought by people with high play times and who are gold rich. My prediction is that gems will be so overinflated that it would be much much cheaper to buy gold from a gold farmer than it would from the cash shop. Why? Gold farmers will have the majority of gold in the game, players will spend on stuff like siege items, repairs, etc. This means most players will be gold poor. Gold farmers on the other hand will be the fort knox of the game controlling the supply. They have 0 use for gems hence there won't be a big demand for gems. At the end of the day, the people that will buy gems to trade for gold will look at an over-inflatted market because of he abundant supply of gems and little supply of gold. Instead they will have to go to gold sellers for their gold.
Great post, and solid prediction. You deserve a quote amidst all of the raging hyper-vigilantism. It's actually a good discussion topic.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Do you know how small this price is? I seen a level 5 and he had over 30 silvers.... I don't think of it as an advantage if a lvl 5 char has enough money to afford most of them.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
Inotcie their counter towards the counters is that it's hard to get money, so that means their original claim is even more wrong lol, because if you sell gems from the start people need gold and silver but if it take awhile to do so that would mean people who play and not try to use gems will have more of an advantage then those spending gems in order to get gold. Then if people do get money easy it's still not justified as an advantage because then you guys will still be contradicting yourselves. This is regarding the op, bear something, and cringe or cinge, forgot the names.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
So let me get this straight. If I log in the very moment that servers launch, and I jump straight into WvW before I actually have time to make any money, there might be somebody else there shortly after that has visited the cash shop, bought gems, traded them for gold and ended up with the blueprints to a seige weapon which might end up being used to sway the odds for the first 20 minutes of a 2 week long WvW match?!?! Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. I guess I'll just go back to freestyle concrete diving, at least it's not pay 2 win!!!
You can only trade gems to other players, not NPCs or any game systems. In other words, if you jump into WvW without making any money, a person who bought gems will not be able to buy that blueprint since there will be no one to trade gems with.
The gold have to come from player. so that mean no,
people need to farm gold somehow first , u cant sell gem if no1 have gold,
I do believe he is using sarcasm because he understands this, and terrorizor deserves a reward for this post haha.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Comments
Not to Interject any unneeded reality to your post, but you say that one side might not have any money because it is early on... Given that, who exactly is providing the gold on the other side, since presumably they are not using time-machines? You do realise that you can't buy gold in the cash shop, you can only sell gems to other players, right? So the gold has to exist before you can buy it... So the best you can say is "say it is early time and one side has 2500 supply, but one person on the server bought out all the gold everyone else on his side had and is the only person who can afford siege equipment". Of course this presupposes that every other person sold him all of their gold(and didn't kill anything or sell anything after that to get more gold)... but even then, who cares?
What did you expected guys? Everything for free or what. You cant make a profit from selling only colored shirts and dragon milk. Don't pvp to much and spend your money wisely only on things that you really need
Said a few times already but might as well address it again.
The player who bought gems(player A) needs other players(Player
to trade gold for the gems to have any worth outside the cash shop. Seeing this is not at gun point it was player B's choice to trade their gold for gems. So now player A can buy blueprints but we need to accept that player B gave up the right to buy a ton of blue prints to get the gems. It was not forced it was player B's decision to put his gold towards Gems and not WvWvW.
As long as you can't trade gems to NPCs for gold I am ok with it. If we find out we can trade with NPCs...I'll just get more satisfaction when a server destroys someone's $5 golem.
Sir I literally laughed out loud on this one. Well done and you make a great point.
If it has come down to arguing over a lvl 1 or 3 player being taken advantage or not for 20 minutes of gameplay because the cashshop person bought a blueprint they cannot use until supply is generated.... well the cashshop must be in pretty good shape.
At the beginning of the game a gem is going to be worth nothing! No one will have the gold to buy a gem and therefor gem holders will not make any gold. Also If one person has all the gold in the world, then multiple people have all the gems in the world. One person gains while the rest of everyone is hurting. There is no issue here, the game is still balanced around this one point that for every blueprint bought with "gems->gold" there is an equal player that cannot and has hurt their server.
This is a team game in WvWvW! There is no one player that can buy all the equipment and siege a castle on his own with all the siege equipment. He will need the help of other players to build it with supply, and then needs some to distract other players and guards of a castle/tower. Seriously who cares about these, if your team was smart you could destroy each blueprint before it was finished being made because they have no supply.
I wasn't going to comment on this because the OP's theory was pretty much destroyed on page 1 or 2. But I jsut cant let it keep going on. Buying GEMs to trade in game Gold will not change the sway of the game one bit.
So what if newb_ranger_001 buys 25$ worth of Gems and then trades them in game for gold. What does he get. He gets currency that can either be spent to help his servermates in V8, or he can spend it on the market buying armor and weapon sets from his server mates there by spreading the wealth back into the community. Gold in no way makes a player more powerful. Gold in no way gives you an advantage in V8.
Seriously there might be upwards of 1500 players spread across 4 maps in V8. Ar eyou telling me one person who bought gems and traded for gold will have any major influence in the swing of battle? Probably not. And anyways what is to say that the other servers dont have a player who did the same thing. The sheer numbers in the battles would makes the odds highly in favor of multiple players from each server being GEM purchasers.
But you keep on complaining because I managed to make it all the way through the first Guildwars Trilogy game without ever spending a dime in teh cash shop and I still have a vast wealth of items and currency stored away in my bank along with hundreds of Z keys, Travellers gifts, and like 10 different armor sets for each character.
And while you stand around whining the newb_ranger_001 just sold a bunch of GEMs for gold I will be out playing the game advancing my character and then dominating in PVP. Hopefully I can even find a tiny Violen to play a sad sad song for you as you fall further and further behind because you worry more about the cash shop and less about actually playing the game.
Then don't play. When a game has a working-as-intended mechanic I don't like, I deal with it or I don't play.
So false premise thread which was proven false on post 5 is still going?
Seige weapons dont' cost gold so this thread is rather invalid, and that's been stated several times already.
an unfair advantage would be not something that gives you a head start, but something that makes you unable to be competed against.
Gems are not an unfair advantage.
Yeah... I personally don't see that this is any kind of huge advantage. Maybe in early game it'll make a difference. I certainly remember my first year in LOTRO where I was always stuggling for cash... At the end of year two, and my semi-retiring, I've got over 300 gold and can make 5 gold a day pretty much 'accidently' just because I've got all those high-level guys and I know what to do... And I not even 'rich,' I know people with thousands of gold and nothing to spend it on...
You've already lost. You're arguing that the gem buyers are going to sell their gems for gold and win at WvWvW because all the other players are broke. What you FAILED to account for in your premise is that if all the other players are broke, the gems will sell for little and the market will be pretty small.
You have to look at the whole system. If nobody has gold to buy prints, nobody has gold to buy gems for you to sell for gold to buy prints.
You can buy all the gems you want. I'm not selling you my gold, neither will my guildmates and neither will goldfarmers.
In fact gems will only be bought by people with high play times and who are gold rich. My prediction is that gems will be so overinflated that it would be much much cheaper to buy gold from a gold farmer than it would from the cash shop.
Why?
Gold farmers will have the majority of gold in the game, players will spend on stuff like siege items, repairs, etc. This means most players will be gold poor. Gold farmers on the other hand will be the fort knox of the game controlling the supply. They have 0 use for gems hence there won't be a big demand for gems.
At the end of the day, the people that will buy gems to trade for gold will look at an over-inflatted market because of he abundant supply of gems and little supply of gold. Instead they will have to go to gold sellers for their gold.
PvP games always invite exploits and this will be no different. Everyone talks like they know how the game will pan out or the economy of gold and gem .I am just curious going to watch this unfold .
Seriously folks, all you have to do is watch the beta WvW videos to see how silly this whole argument it. You'll see, in a world where there wasn't even time to amass great riches, plenty of seige weapons, from catapults to trebuchets to even seige golems. They're all over the place. This is demonstrated to be a complete non-issue.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Yeah. I saw that. The only thing I don't know is if the Beta characters were salted (given extra resources).
They weren't... I forget the vids, but a couple mentioned starting out with nothing and earning bits here and there. What's neat is if you watch the WvW ones you see them getting coins for the WvW events (keep captures, dolyak escorts, etc) as well as from drops off other players, so it looks like you could just WvW and still earn the coinage to keep yourself in seige weapons as needed.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Honestly, there is absolutely nothing we can do to convince people one way or another.
We will all have to put up with this and 10,000 other "P2W" threads until and probably long after the game releases.
Best to just ignore the trolls, wait and see how the shop and economy play out in the game.
Starve the trolls to let them die under their bridge of ignorance.
The gold cost of the blue print is still an important aspect of WvW, well mediated by supply it still gives an upper hand to the person with gold. This is one of the inherent flaws of b2p and f2p games, in order to support microtransaction and out side money they need to butcher and water down the games current systems. In all honest i think convience time saving items should be dropped entirely from the game.
While advocating for subsciption should be out of the questions, players have an extreme right to voice their conerns with what types of items will be sold in the game.
So yes you will have to put with these threads becauses its an important issue and one arenanet has mention they are still up in the air with what is sold in the item shop.
i'm gonna have to agree, think its time to stay away from the forums a while.
Works in eve, will work here. Heck it will have even less of an impact here than it does in eve.
Only because the possibility to trade gems for gold is there, it doesn't mean that everyone immediately will have tons of gold in the game to trade for gems, nor does it mean that everyone would be interested on item shop items as much.
Other than that as you can see from the wiki and other posters confirmations, you can stuff yourself up with as many blueprints as you want and it still won't make a difference as long as your side doesn't have the supplies to build them.
At the time you are trying to gain enough supplies to build all these things, other can get hold of the same blueprints while playing.
So the only advantage you have through this is having them "faster" but as long as you are not able to use them due to materials shortage, you just sit on them or watch how much space they take in your inventory.
Great post, and solid prediction. You deserve a quote amidst all of the raging hyper-vigilantism. It's actually a good discussion topic.
Hopefully ANet is thinking about this.
Do you know how small this price is? I seen a level 5 and he had over 30 silvers.... I don't think of it as an advantage if a lvl 5 char has enough money to afford most of them.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
I do believe he is using sarcasm because he understands this, and terrorizor deserves a reward for this post haha.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.