Originally posted by Wepps even in the movies, was losing quality fast in episodes I to III, and you see precisely the same problem right here in Galaxies.
Ack, you're dissing Revenge of the Sith? I hope I misunderstood lol the freakin thing rewled! It is the first time in so very long that I have heard people cheering at the screen and when Yoda uses the force to knock those guards down behind him every single person in the theatre was laughing and cheering.
I actually enjoyed Revenge of the Sith. Only because of Order 66 though. Watching all those punk jedi get what they deserve. To die like the cowards they are. I am sure Lucas is happy that one profession in a game can make people hate an aspect in his movies. The same general additude came from people at the last Star Wars convention in canada. They couldnt wait to see the the jedi getting ganked.
Yah I sat there giggling imagining Vader showing up at the SOE offices in Texas and doing a cleaning. hehe. That would be great.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 I actually enjoyed Revenge of the Sith. Only because of Order 66 though. Watching all those punk jedi get what they deserve. To die like the cowards they are.
Ok Darth Holy crap someone needs counseling LOL. Seriously, look at what you just typed.
Originally posted by IcoGames I'd rather see a Jedi free server long long long before a Pre-CU server. My other suggestion is for SOE to borrow Eve's source code and swap out JTL.
OH HELL NO!!! Not Eve. I am NOT doing that point to point flying crap. Aint no way. And having to switch my camera around constantly? No way no how.
Give me a locked chase or good HUD and direct control. Cause I want it to be skill not point, click and let the AI do the killing.
Originally posted by Wepps The reason is, not only are there just TONS of things that you can do, which means massive options in the content, but also that the players are rewarded on a constant basis, for every action they take, and this is the primary reason the game is fun. Everything from chopping wood, to building campfires, to cooking, to crafting spells, fishing, you name it. All available to the new player, all rewarded by level additions early into your experience.
I think that is what makes WoW (and now maybe Runescape) so successful, addictive and newbie friendly. CONSTANT REWARDs. Not only for you, but also the people around you .. AND you see it optically and accoustically.
Its the same trick they use in a casino. Somewhere someone is always winning .. and you see lights flashing and horns hooting. Which subconciously tells you that YOU will be the next to win ... now .. or after the next dime .. or the next one.
Sucks new players right into a game.
SWG can learn a lot from that - and already partially has as the new tutorial missions in Mos Eisley show. But they need it even more. No more crap loot like broken datapads. Whenever you get enough XP to earn a new box in any profession .. KA-CHING .. light and sound. Maybe not THAT immersive, but it will do wonders for motivation.
AC2 is a dead game, less then 10k subscribers. As much as you may not like to hear, SWG has around 250k.
Should it be higher? Hell yes. Sony is completely guilty of mismanaging the game. Is the game salvagable? Yes Very.
In fact if they stop messing with the core mechanics and start adding content and fixing professions, the game would be fine.
Originally posted by ata23 Is it end, will people quit again and again. theres not so much players there. I am at bria few people around. less merchants empty houses. burning factories . no crafters no newbees
I think everyone has seen that chart. I also dont know how believable it is. SOE has this real bad system of lies that makes me think the thing might be a lie since the guy gets the numbers straigth from the companies in alot of instances.
But I am waiting for the update. I want to see the numbers during the xp nerf. If it doesnt show a noticeable drop then I can assume the chart creator is being lied too. Because I havent met anyone who said the numbers were stable during that week.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 I think everyone has seen that chart. I also dont know how believable it is. SOE has this real bad system of lies that makes me think the thing might be a lie since the guy gets the numbers straigth from the companies in alot of instances. But I am waiting for the update. I want to see the numbers during the xp nerf. If it doesnt show a noticeable drop then I can assume the chart creator is being lied too. Because I havent met anyone who said the numbers were stable during that week. Kai
If he isn't a stock holder, they are not required to release that information except by court order.
And even if he was one, who here really thinks that they are telling them the truth? SOE is truthfully the Enron of gaming. Artifact Entertainment under Bowman tried that as well, but they are just minor wannabes in comparison and can't get their acts together.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I dont think we can know for sure about the actual numbers.
Because the Pro-SWGers are right. It could be us negative people are seeing less players because its what we already believe.
But the shoe fits just as good on the other foot. The Pro-SWGers could be seeing more players because that is what they already believe.
I personally think its 150k. Some say higher and some say lower. But I am willing to bet its 150k actual players subscribing. I dont count second or third accounts.
But again I must say....
Whether its 100k or 250k or even 350k its still solid proof of the sad state the game is in considering just how people it should have. All the Pro-SWGers can say how good the game is and call me a basher but the numbers are still proof that can not be denied considering how many they could have had.
Plus the Pro-SWGers need to remember the developers did code that little server listing change to make it appear there were more playing. SOE/LA wouldnt have done that without a reason.....just off the top of my head.....like to hide just how few players they have now....
That's such a joke. SOE wouldn't let Planetside die, do you honestly think they will let SWG go? It's not going anywhere, stop saying the glass is half empty.
I think that is what makes WoW (and now maybe Runescape) so successful, addictive and newbie friendly. CONSTANT REWARDs. Not only for you, but also the people around you .. AND you see it optically and accoustically. Its the same trick they use in a casino. Somewhere someone is always winning .. and you see lights flashing and horns hooting. Which subconciously tells you that YOU will be the next to win ... now .. or after the next dime .. or the next one. Erillion
It's not a trick or a gimmick. There is just a lot of effort and quality that went into designing WoW. Blizzard knows how to make fun games, that is why their past games have been so successful.
As you said however, SOE could learn a lot from Blizzard because lets be honest - SOE really hasn't had much success on their own merits lately have they? If it weren't for companies like Blizzard showing them what to add or change to improve their game, where would SWG and EQ2 be today?
You have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to realise this game has gone down the drain. SWG is just a grind and nothing else. The only reason I failed to see this at an earlier stage was due to being totally clouded by the constant grind.
In all honesty, I am truely saddened by this. No game has bigger potential.
Originally posted by Aildrik As you said however, SOE could learn a lot from Blizzard because lets be honest - SOE really hasn't had much success on their own merits lately have they? If it weren't for companies like Blizzard showing them what to add or change to improve their game, where would SWG and EQ2 be today?
Err... Blizzard being in the MMORPG genre for some 1.5 years, SOE being 4 times that ? You can love or hate SOE (mostly the later), but they ARE a successful COMPANY. Thats NOT to say they make the best games, but they DO make successfull games that generate profit. And that has been shown time and time again long before Blizzard appeared on the MMORPG scene. SOE was the (western) market leader in the genre until WoW.
SOE - believe it or not - is also more innovative in games than Blizzard (speaking only about the MMORPG genre here). WoW is basically the best old style MMORPG you can devise. Which also means to me it is lacking in long term appeal (also speaking from my own experience here). And if the recent flood of (ex-) WoW players in every game I play (especially EVE and SWG) is any indication, they are already spreading out because WoW has little high end gaming beyond one new lair every 3 months or so. Of course thats all IMHO.
To answer the question directly : I think they would be exactly where they are now. They will improve as Blizzard for the first time gave them competition, and thats always good. So I think they will be BETTER in the future. Both SOE and Blizzard.
Originally posted by Krabbeku You have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to realise this game has gone down the drain. SWG is just a grind and nothing else. The only reason I failed to see this at an earlier stage was due to being totally clouded by the constant grind. In all honesty, I am truely saddened by this. No game has bigger potential.
The game is a grind .. because you were grinding all the time ?
I play this game since summer 2003, have never grinded at all and am still having fun and still finding new locations, new quests and new things to do.
Is it possible that YOU YOURSELF limited yourself to a tiny aspect of SWG and did not open yourself to the other 90 % that this game has to offer ?
And did you not open yourself to the community in this game which is GREAT outside the BH-Jedi pissing contests near Dantooine Mining Outpost ?
I was a follower os swg since inceptiona dn when i got my greedy fingers on an invite for beta... I have watched it faslowly go down hil, I had hopes that soe would correct the problems by reading the forums... hmmm jedi issues.. woot.. the forums erupted people left... and the final slap to me was the cu.. translated as see you subscriber... the game is in morbid decay and the people will remain as dense as the the days in the forums before ac2's death knell. It will never happen, hardcore till the end...
I hade hopes that they would listyenm, even on the ebta server, they agreed there were major problems that should be adressed, yet rushed t out to coincide with a movie.... [the combat upgrade]..... i recommend that gamers seek other games.. ones where they [the dev's and what not] will listen... in this industry the voices of a mass exodus was not enough.. the voices pf pver 35 different posts when the cu was introed was not enough.. maybe when the last player shuts the lights will they listen..probally not.
i agree its all about the grind its so boring. And yes everyone is becomming a jedi soon 99 percent of the players will be jedi. Everyone is either a jedi or bounty hunter.i quit cause of the grind. long live bf2:) however out of all the games i have played online iw ould say this is the best the others just don't suit me. but yes soe has made the screw ups more constant so i would not really reccomend getting this game. it was good a while ago but not its just junked.
I have been in 2 guilds with a member base in the +50. The second guild was a merge due to many players quitting. All of the members are now either Jedi or going for Jedi. These people were my gaming buddies from 2 years back. I did not want to leave them, and also I believe that the wish to become a Jedi in our guild is quite representative, compared to other non-rp guilds. I am not a roleplayer. I do not wish or have the time to become a Jedi.
I have participated in many events in order to create something fun to do together. The last one was the commando only guild on Starsider. Loved the idea, the same did many many others, became mcommando and it was great fun, until basically all members left. When I quit we were back to 3 active players.
No, I have not limited myself to the vast aspects of this game. You not being a grinder is rather an exception, and does not apply to the grinding community in general.
That is not to say that the game is not in need of drastic improvement. Because it is. Desperately. But it is not the end of the game.
I love Star Wars. Not the game, but the "world", the myth, the scope and the grandness of it. I love the smart, modern sensibility of it. I resonate to its tradition far more closely than I do to the banal, trite and overused mythologies of elves and dwarves. I am irresistably fascinated by the lure of gentleman smugglers and moisture farmers and assertive, powerful princesses who cause more distress than they find themselves in. And I am not alone. No. Far, FAR from it.
Because of the amazing allure of this new and brilliant take on the mythical tradition of the fairy tale, games like SWG will weather the storm of bad management, worse customer relations and ignoring every rule of good MMO creation. It will survive because as horrid as the quality of the game at this time may be, there are still enough people like myself who are sick to DEATH of dragons, elves and "I cast magic missile!!!" to keep pushing SOE and LucasArts to make something good of the game. We are desperate for the freshness and new vistas that the franchise offers us.
It's NOT your momma's tired old D&D based MMO.
It's Star Wars.
And NO ONE ELSE HAS IT.
For this reason alone, if for nothing else, SWG is not dead.
Originally posted by Aildrik It's not a trick or a gimmick. There is just a lot of effort and quality that went into designing WoW. Blizzard knows how to make fun games, that is why their past games have been so successful. As you said however, SOE could learn a lot from Blizzard because lets be honest - SOE really hasn't had much success on their own merits lately have they? If it weren't for companies like Blizzard showing them what to add or change to improve their game, where would SWG and EQ2 be today?
I'm sorry but Blizzard learn from SOE? How about Blizzard learn from SOE, NCSoft, Mythic and everyone else. The game is horrible, it's a rehash of generation 1 MMO's. Granted it does everything people wnted in gen 1's REALLY well but that's about all it does. It does nothing new, nothing interesting. And don't get me started on the community. If there is anything that killed world of Warcraft for me it was the community.
I starting playing SWG in Beta, and saw alot of potential. I don't see it anymore. CU was the last straw. When I logged in the first day after CU and I couldn't wear my armor anymore, most of my weapons I wasn't Certed for, my combat moves had completely changed, and Macros didn't work anymore, I was stunned!
SWG has gone the way they said it never would "EQ in space". They are removing everything that made SWG unique except the Stormtroopers.
Sony made a simple calculation. EQ makes more money then SWG, so make SWG more like EQ. Whalla! CU.
Add to this the complete ignoring of many professions (DE has gotten NO LOVE), horrible in game support, bugs ontop of bugs that hide other bugs you don't find till they fix the first bug only to change the system again causing new bugs, Jedi EVERYWHERE, etc etc.
Example. I cancelled 5 accounts several months ago. And recently re-activated one figuring I could atleast finish her Village grind in my spare time. On route to the Village my Master TKA/Sword decided to fight some of the local wildlife. I fought 3 (I forget the name, the lizards) and was incapped 2 twice. I finally won, and felt proud, only to realize that I got 3 XP, 3 XP! i Forgot that I was CL 80, and they were CL 50 or 60. -10% per level left no XP for all that effort. WTF!
In frustration I decided to go back home to Tat and log out. Hey, after an incapp you can't call a bike or use you Starship for a while?!? 20 minutes sitting in Research waiting for that timer to run out so I could leave the planet. I gave up, logged right there, and cancelled the account 1 hour after re-activating it.
Comments
I actually enjoyed Revenge of the Sith. Only because of Order 66 though. Watching all those punk jedi get what they deserve. To die like the cowards they are. I am sure Lucas is happy that one profession in a game can make people hate an aspect in his movies. The same general additude came from people at the last Star Wars convention in canada. They couldnt wait to see the the jedi getting ganked.
Yah I sat there giggling imagining Vader showing up at the SOE offices in Texas and doing a cleaning. hehe. That would be great.
Kai
CU Killed SWG
'Nuff Said.
I'd rather see a Jedi free server long long long before a Pre-CU server. My other suggestion is for SOE to borrow Eve's source code and swap out JTL.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
OH HELL NO!!! Not Eve. I am NOT doing that point to point flying crap. Aint no way. And having to switch my camera around constantly? No way no how.
Give me a locked chase or good HUD and direct control. Cause I want it to be skill not point, click and let the AI do the killing.
Kai
I think that is what makes WoW (and now maybe Runescape) so successful, addictive and newbie friendly. CONSTANT REWARDs. Not only for you, but also the people around you .. AND you see it optically and accoustically.
Its the same trick they use in a casino. Somewhere someone is always winning .. and you see lights flashing and horns hooting. Which subconciously tells you that YOU will be the next to win ... now .. or after the next dime .. or the next one.
Sucks new players right into a game.
SWG can learn a lot from that - and already partially has as the new tutorial missions in Mos Eisley show. But they need it even more. No more crap loot like broken datapads. Whenever you get enough XP to earn a new box in any profession .. KA-CHING .. light and sound. Maybe not THAT immersive, but it will do wonders for motivation.
Have fun
Erillion
I think everyone has seen that chart. I also dont know how believable it is. SOE has this real bad system of lies that makes me think the thing might be a lie since the guy gets the numbers straigth from the companies in alot of instances.
But I am waiting for the update. I want to see the numbers during the xp nerf. If it doesnt show a noticeable drop then I can assume the chart creator is being lied too. Because I havent met anyone who said the numbers were stable during that week.
Kai
If he isn't a stock holder, they are not required to release that information except by court order.
And even if he was one, who here really thinks that they are telling them the truth? SOE is truthfully the Enron of gaming. Artifact Entertainment under Bowman tried that as well, but they are just minor wannabes in comparison and can't get their acts together.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I dont think we can know for sure about the actual numbers.
Because the Pro-SWGers are right. It could be us negative people are seeing less players because its what we already believe.
But the shoe fits just as good on the other foot. The Pro-SWGers could be seeing more players because that is what they already believe.
I personally think its 150k. Some say higher and some say lower. But I am willing to bet its 150k actual players subscribing. I dont count second or third accounts.
But again I must say....
Whether its 100k or 250k or even 350k its still solid proof of the sad state the game is in considering just how people it should have. All the Pro-SWGers can say how good the game is and call me a basher but the numbers are still proof that can not be denied considering how many they could have had.
Plus the Pro-SWGers need to remember the developers did code that little server listing change to make it appear there were more playing. SOE/LA wouldnt have done that without a reason.....just off the top of my head.....like to hide just how few players they have now....
Kai
It's not a trick or a gimmick. There is just a lot of effort and quality that went into designing WoW. Blizzard knows how to make fun games, that is why their past games have been so successful.
As you said however, SOE could learn a lot from Blizzard because lets be honest - SOE really hasn't had much success on their own merits lately have they? If it weren't for companies like Blizzard showing them what to add or change to improve their game, where would SWG and EQ2 be today?
You have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to realise this game has gone down the drain. SWG is just a grind and nothing else. The only reason I failed to see this at an earlier stage was due to being totally clouded by the constant grind.
In all honesty, I am truely saddened by this. No game has bigger potential.
Err... Blizzard being in the MMORPG genre for some 1.5 years, SOE being 4 times that ? You can love or hate SOE (mostly the later), but they ARE a successful COMPANY. Thats NOT to say they make the best games, but they DO make successfull games that generate profit. And that has been shown time and time again long before Blizzard appeared on the MMORPG scene. SOE was the (western) market leader in the genre until WoW.
SOE - believe it or not - is also more innovative in games than Blizzard (speaking only about the MMORPG genre here). WoW is basically the best old style MMORPG you can devise. Which also means to me it is lacking in long term appeal (also speaking from my own experience here). And if the recent flood of (ex-) WoW players in every game I play (especially EVE and SWG) is any indication, they are already spreading out because WoW has little high end gaming beyond one new lair every 3 months or so. Of course thats all IMHO.
To answer the question directly : I think they would be exactly where they are now. They will improve as Blizzard for the first time gave them competition, and thats always good. So I think they will be BETTER in the future. Both SOE and Blizzard.
Have fun
Erillion
The game is a grind .. because you were grinding all the time ?
I play this game since summer 2003, have never grinded at all and am still having fun and still finding new locations, new quests and new things to do.
Is it possible that YOU YOURSELF limited yourself to a tiny aspect of SWG and did not open yourself to the other 90 % that this game has to offer ?
And did you not open yourself to the community in this game which is GREAT outside the BH-Jedi pissing contests near Dantooine Mining Outpost ?
have fun
Erillion
I was a follower os swg since inceptiona dn when i got my greedy fingers on an invite for beta... I have watched it faslowly go down hil, I had hopes that soe would correct the problems by reading the forums... hmmm jedi issues.. woot.. the forums erupted people left... and the final slap to me was the cu.. translated as see you subscriber... the game is in morbid decay and the people will remain as dense as the the days in the forums before ac2's death knell. It will never happen, hardcore till the end...
I hade hopes that they would listyenm, even on the ebta server, they agreed there were major problems that should be adressed, yet rushed t out to coincide with a movie.... [the combat upgrade]..... i recommend that gamers seek other games.. ones where they [the dev's and what not] will listen... in this industry the voices of a mass exodus was not enough.. the voices pf pver 35 different posts when the cu was introed was not enough.. maybe when the last player shuts the lights will they listen..probally not.
I have been in 2 guilds with a member base in the +50. The second guild was a merge due to many players quitting. All of the members are now either Jedi or going for Jedi. These people were my gaming buddies from 2 years back. I did not want to leave them, and also I believe that the wish to become a Jedi in our guild is quite representative, compared to other non-rp guilds. I am not a roleplayer. I do not wish or have the time to become a Jedi.
I have participated in many events in order to create something fun to do together. The last one was the commando only guild on Starsider. Loved the idea, the same did many many others, became mcommando and it was great fun, until basically all members left. When I quit we were back to 3 active players.
No, I have not limited myself to the vast aspects of this game. You not being a grinder is rather an exception, and does not apply to the grinding community in general.
No. This is by no means the end of SWG.
That is not to say that the game is not in need of drastic improvement. Because it is. Desperately. But it is not the end of the game.
I love Star Wars. Not the game, but the "world", the myth, the scope and the grandness of it. I love the smart, modern sensibility of it. I resonate to its tradition far more closely than I do to the banal, trite and overused mythologies of elves and dwarves. I am irresistably fascinated by the lure of gentleman smugglers and moisture farmers and assertive, powerful princesses who cause more distress than they find themselves in. And I am not alone. No. Far, FAR from it.
Because of the amazing allure of this new and brilliant take on the mythical tradition of the fairy tale, games like SWG will weather the storm of bad management, worse customer relations and ignoring every rule of good MMO creation. It will survive because as horrid as the quality of the game at this time may be, there are still enough people like myself who are sick to DEATH of dragons, elves and "I cast magic missile!!!" to keep pushing SOE and LucasArts to make something good of the game. We are desperate for the freshness and new vistas that the franchise offers us.
It's NOT your momma's tired old D&D based MMO.
It's Star Wars.
And NO ONE ELSE HAS IT.
For this reason alone, if for nothing else, SWG is not dead.
It's just handicapped and smells kinda funny.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
Azhrarn,
Have you checked out Eve Online? If not, I definately recommend it to fellow sci-fe freakaholics.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Eve Online is a good MMO IMO. it just leaves me with the same feeling as SWG, a game with a lot of unrealized potential.
I play SWG over Eve simply because i feel SWG has more to offer at this point. But Eve has some VERY good things going for it.
********************************
MMO Name: InVictus Kell
Currently Playing:
EVE Online
********************************
I starting playing SWG in Beta, and saw alot of potential. I don't see it anymore. CU was the last straw. When I logged in the first day after CU and I couldn't wear my armor anymore, most of my weapons I wasn't Certed for, my combat moves had completely changed, and Macros didn't work anymore, I was stunned!
SWG has gone the way they said it never would "EQ in space". They are removing everything that made SWG unique except the Stormtroopers.
Sony made a simple calculation. EQ makes more money then SWG, so make SWG more like EQ. Whalla! CU.
Add to this the complete ignoring of many professions (DE has gotten NO LOVE), horrible in game support, bugs ontop of bugs that hide other bugs you don't find till they fix the first bug only to change the system again causing new bugs, Jedi EVERYWHERE, etc etc.
Example. I cancelled 5 accounts several months ago. And recently re-activated one figuring I could atleast finish her Village grind in my spare time. On route to the Village my Master TKA/Sword decided to fight some of the local wildlife. I fought 3 (I forget the name, the lizards) and was incapped 2 twice. I finally won, and felt proud, only to realize that I got 3 XP, 3 XP! i Forgot that I was CL 80, and they were CL 50 or 60. -10% per level left no XP for all that effort. WTF!
In frustration I decided to go back home to Tat and log out. Hey, after an incapp you can't call a bike or use you Starship for a while?!? 20 minutes sitting in Research waiting for that timer to run out so I could leave the planet. I gave up, logged right there, and cancelled the account 1 hour after re-activating it.