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Women gamers... [mod edit - Topic About Online Harassment in Games)
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Okay, reopening the thread for now.
Please remember that discussion of politics and policy, ethics, etc is not allowed on these forums. And please argue/discuss your points in a civil manner. Thanks.
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So, as I was saying, there is harrassment in online gaming, and nobody is immune from it.
What is the solution, nobody knows, thats why its still around and probably always will be.
Nuff said.
This is asinine. Trash talking exists in all games, online or not. It is more vulgar online, but I think we can all agree vulgarity is always multiplied in online, anonymous correspondence. This isn't a problem. Children who are learning social skills test the waters in a safe, anonymous environment, and they are saltier than they would be otherwise. There are a few adults who are awful, and there is some terrible harassment, but that is how it works online, and I think it is a good place for kids to both get this out of their systems and become more comfortable with social graces, and how to shrug off insults as well.
I am called some terrible names online, especially when I frag a teen or tween in a particularly hilarious way, but I don't think it is a deliberate attempt to discriminate against me sexually. I think all this gets blown out of proportion, and I don't like that people make such a huge deal about it. Grow a spine, let the kids live and learn, and don't take gaming so damn seriously.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Depends on which phase of the game it is. if it is early game, people have to focus a lot on last hitting/denying/poking that's why the "mia/ss" system is created, because it advantegous. Furthermore, during early game, only the ally on correct lane will have an idea of where the opponent went. The correct ally will know how much hp/mp the opponent had when he went missing and call ss/mia accordingly.
In other words: people have all right to feel angry when their teammates cannot bother to type one word that is so immensely helpful. If they keep getting angry game after game, it is no wonder they finally rage like mad.
Raging is never ok, but neither is being lazy and intentionally not doing your teamwork job.
Errr, no, that is precisely a major problem. Legislation is not up to date with current technology, but it is only a matter of time before we, the majority, have to sacrifice freedom because a minority was not able to behave.
True, the majority will pay the price, for a few who think they can legislate a way out of it, instead of standing up to it when it happens to them, but its impossible.
There will never be a shortage of bad people, its just a fact of life. I fear internet legislation more than I fear online bullies.
LOL ... I love how these "women" gamers ... though I am one myself;; get offended by those words ... I honestly don't understand them... You play a video game because its fun, but yet you choose to interact with the people playing that same game and get offended when they start to tease and make fun of you... Like, isn't that what video games make you do? Don't they make you competitive ... ? People just need to suck it up.
If you disregard all world history and how women have been oppressed and seen as "less worth" in many cultures for centuries (even several today), then yeah, it is all fine.
It is usually not okay to attack one's gender and sexuality. Keep in mind that when people say "fag", they don't necessarely mean anything sexual whatsoever, they may just think you are a moron/idiot (See South Park episode about the word "fag").
I actually have no problem with people trash talking for the most part. a big problem comes with this - People view homophobic, racist, misgynistic verbal abuse as one in the same with this, and the way people pursue it further.
I think saying " Your shit's weak!, F***ing n00b, etc is fine on the passby. when it targets ones race, sexual orientation, gender is way over the line where the former may never need any kind of discipline, the worse, can't be perma banned and account deleted fast enough. Also pursing someone to verbally abuse, via mailbox, circumventing chat block filters, lobby following, etc is not okay. Pursing someone in game after in disruptive gameplay I really don't mind because good games should prevent the worst of it by mechanics that prevent it.
Being that it is the internet, and all forms of voice modulations, personality alterations, etc(roleplaying, whatever) is avalible, with no real way to 'prove' one way or another, I just enter each and every game as if every single person I meet is a generless freak
Problems solved.
Because most people seem unable to distinguish themselves from others comments, ill wrap this up nicely.
You shouldn't worry about people staying stuff, this entire topic is a non-issue. You should worry about mass reporters, reporters who do so to bully, people who contact other people can speard lies to cause actual implication (calling 9/11 on people who don't like, telling a teacher or priniciple that so and so threatened you [which is a lie but gets them into trouble anyway], stuff like that). These have real implications that effect others lives and freedoms, they are wrong and bad. They envoke a stucture of force against another person, where as name calling (no matter how distasteful) has no phycial or forceful ramification (No harm but to your psyche and only then because you choose to be harmed).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Where is your outrage over killing things.. i mean come on if you "disregard all world history and how xenoistic peoples have been oppressed and seen as "less worth" in many cultures for centuries (even several today), then yeah, it is all fine."
Don't kill those goblins they are just different, deamons.. misunderstood... etc. there is a limit to the lack of intelectual thought/honesty ... you have crossed it (most lieklt not purposfully).
For the very reason that WOMEN TODAY ARE EQUAL TO MEN, THAT WE MAY PROD AT THEIR GENDER AS WE WOULD AT MALES'
In otherwords you just showed your indoctination, that you have accepted at face value, "females were opressed so we have to treat them differently" is rather the same thought / degration of the value of a human as "females are weaker/fairer so we have to treat them differently". In both cases your just sexist, bias person doing what society tells you to. Stop repeating everything you have been told and think about it.
If females = males then there is no reason to NOT allow gender based jokes as it would be equal both males and females can make fun of themselves and others... unless they are not equal as humans then you may want to provide the lesser of the sexes some extra protection (which seems you feel females are, well your agrument indicates this).
The only excpetion here is if you say well there is a history of it so ... because there is a history of people being sexist we should continue to be sexist and and treat those sexes differently? Opps darn reality getting in the way again...
See if you HONESTLY want to treat someone as your equal you have to start with TREATING THEM AS YOUR EQUAL; not treating them as if their are too weak, too naive, too DUMB to handle what you handle and dish out.
Darn this logic and reality always getting in the way of logical fallacies.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by Jetrpg
One rational reason is that a person being new to the game can indeed affect their performance for the worse compared to someone who has played the game a long time. How is it rational to blame someone's gender/sexuality/race for something that happened in the game?
What do you mean with "xenoistic"?
Furthermore, it is usually not ok to insult someone due to their gender, regardless of what that gender may be, that includes males being insulted due to being males.
If males were the ones oppressed throughout history and still being oppressed in certain parts of the world, I would also in that case be more cautious about different systems and norms from the past.
I try to treat men and women as equally worth, that's why I avoid doing any jokes and/or insult someone based on their gender.
So an article on something that can't be fixed. Great use of time. Did we fix racism yet?
I don't think you can eliminate completely, but the companies can do a lot by trying to enforce stricter rules. Heck, if the problem becomes too large, governments may become involved and support different taskforces with the objective to decrease the current issues.
Well, like i said before there is one solution-DISABLE F....... CHAT! And second you can report somebody and he could be banned but no you don't want that for sure and i can see where is this going:) people need money and they will start to sue each other even in games. For example Blizzard have hard hard hand in case like that, some time ago when i was in wow bg i said to one guy--''You f.....g moron get that stupid flag overe here'' and he reported me, i got banned for 5 days.So i believe that you can report almost in any game made by some big company. But like i said, some of us need money and now they try to explore ground for that
Where have these articles been for the past decade? Every day people have been dealing with racist/vulgar/trollish people, but it is only a problem now, and article worthy now, because it attacks women. How come people scream equality yet they do not deal with situations equally?
People who say equality do not want true equality, they want a perverted seperate but equal system where they can have their own rules and regulations pertaining to their own group for each aspect of their lives. They want it fit for what they want rather than it being dealt with equally across all. Ya who cares men have dealt with this crap since the dawn of online gaming.
I guess its fine since we are men. Every man today who had nothing to do with the oppression of the past has to be punished for it and made to feel guilty like we caused it. God i cant even count how many times I was told I was going to be raped at some point...and guess what? my feelings and anal virginity are both still intact! In closing, people do not seek to be a part of an equal group, they indeed like having their individual groups singled out when it creates regulations benefiting just them in a social situation.
A benefit that does not extend to anyone else besides themselves. This probably makes me a giant mysoginist for thinking this way but w/e i guess it cant be helped. I want true equally not seperate but equal splinter groups with their own sets of social rules and regulations.
Ha ha nice said man
Wrong you are changing this agruement into somethign that its not. I will expound:
Here is the basis: "I think saying " Your shit's weak!, F***ing n00b, etc is fine on the passby. "
This is ok , but you reply "One rational reason is that a person being new to the game can indeed affect their performance for the worse compared to someone who has played the game a long time."
But then their intial possition would also be incorrect (by your standards) , thus you did not answer my question but a different unasked question. Note the question is why is it ok to insult but not with gender/race included, the result is the same you have attack someones psyche. As a hyperbole- its ok to shoot me in the head with a .38 but not a .45. Sure the 45 may do more damage, but its really the same thing.
"How is it rational to blame someone's gender/sexuality/race for something that happened in the game?"
Its not, but nor is much of the blaming of fault that occurs in competitve games, no one is calling for a ban/punisment of bad players, or people who think everything is someone else's fault.
How are we as humans rational? We're often not. Now we can find rational reasoning in why we do things, to defend our ego if the most common with this type of behavior. But there are more, such as because it fun to watch conditioned people explode at such confrontations. We as humans like to win, feel superior, etc. before you demonize that reasoning thats the point of competitive games btw / games in general triumphing over challenge (in pvp game its over others). Sorry thats reality.
So the verbal attack to establish superiority in pvp game is not only expected, its part of the same thought process as the game itself.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I recall several articles (although not many in English) about people behaving badly over the internet. As for "not dealing with situations equally": different problems may be of different magnitude and have different partial solutions.
I don't think it is a common problem that men are being insulted based on their gender. I am far more familiar with players being insulted due to their assumed intellect, ingame choices and assumed social competence.
There is also a difference between feeling guility and recognizing past mistakes.
They won't stop until all men are psychologically castrated and fueled by self-loathing.
The straight, virile, Western White male has been targeted for elimination.
There are different degrees of insults. I explained why one kind of insult can be considered to be worse than another one.
The verbal attack is an immature way to try to establish superiority regardless of its content.
I think that codes of conduct that mirror reality are not only needed, but should be expected if the internet is going to continue to exist in any shade of its present format. The only question is this: will we, or the companies we work spend our money with, enforce this? Or will a governing body be forced to step in?
The argument is simple, really, at least as I see it.
1. It is illegal to create a contract for murder in the real world. It is illegal to create a contract for murder online.
2. It is illegal to possess underage pornography in the real world. It is illegal to possess underage pornography online.
3. It is illegal to provide material support for designated terrorist groups in the real world. It is illegal to provide material support for designated terrorist groups online.
4. It is illegal to steal copyrighted works in the real world. It is illegal to steal copyrighted works online.
5. It is civilly liable to post libelous remarks in the real world. It is civilly liable to post libelous remarks online.
6. It is illegal to intimidate in the real world. But online, you should just leave and ignore it, because surely they mean nothing by it?!? That's just how people are? Boys will be boys? If these very same remarks were sent to a governing official, would they laugh them off? 'Grow a thick skin'? I'd wager the answer to that would be a loud 'no', followed by the resounding click of a jail cell.
Do you really believe that?