The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
I don't consider APB to be an MMORPG, and besides, it didn't launch in 2012
Afaik you wear only full outfits in Champions Online. Can you mix and match coats, shirts, trousers, hats, gloves, eyewear and jewelry ?
Wow, the first MMO that came out in 2012 must have been pretty innovative then if we just ignore games before then. That first MMO released this year basically created everything according to your logic.
And, yes, in CO you could go over to the custome maker anytime you liked and change every single aspect of your outfit, masks, accessories, bracers, arms (lower and upper), gloves, chest, back, waist etc. etc. including different textures on models. add alterations to existing models. Find accessories you can attach onto every single piece from 1 body part.
CO's outfit system has long been, and still is, the most customizable one there has ever been.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
Rift has wardrobe slots. WoW has transmogrification. EQ2 has Wardrobe slots. That is basically what your look is. They are wardrobe slots and your real gear goes in a different place.
Hiding your statted clothing is not the same as having no statted clothing.
Wardrobe slots allow you to hide your armour and display different garments, but it's entirely optional. The "real" armour is still there with the stats, only hidden if you choose to equip something in the wardrobe slot.
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
I don't consider APB to be an MMORPG, and besides, it didn't launch in 2012
Afaik you wear only full outfits in Champions Online. Can you mix and match coats, shirts, trousers, hats, gloves, eyewear and jewelry ?
Wow, the first MMO that came out in 2012 must have been pretty innovative then if we just ignore games before then. That first MMO released this year basically created everything according to your logic.
And, yes, in CO you could go over to the custome maker anytime you liked and change every single aspect of your outfit, masks, accessories, bracers, arms (lower and upper), gloves, chest, back, waist etc. etc. including different textures on models. add alterations to existing models. Find accessories you can attach onto every single piece from 1 body part.
CO's outfit system has long been, and still is, the most customizable one there has ever been.
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
I don't consider APB to be an MMORPG, and besides, it didn't launch in 2012
Afaik you wear only full outfits in Champions Online. Can you mix and match coats, shirts, trousers, hats, gloves, eyewear and jewelry ?
Wow, the first MMO that came out in 2012 must have been pretty innovative then if we just ignore games before then. That first MMO released this year basically created everything according to your logic.
And, yes, in CO you could go over to the custome maker anytime you liked and change every single aspect of your outfit, masks, accessories, bracers, arms (lower and upper), gloves, chest, back, waist etc. etc. including different textures on models. add alterations to existing models. Find accessories you can attach onto every single piece from 1 body part.
CO's outfit system has long been, and still is, the most customizable one there has ever been.
Point conceded then, if Champions Online did it first, then statless "armour" is not an innovation.
No, not saying all games before 2012 are to be ignored. It's just that APB isn't really an MMORPG in my book. It's a strange beast, but closer to a lobby-based shooter than it is to a "classic" MMORPG.
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
Rift has wardrobe slots. WoW has transmogrification. EQ2 has Wardrobe slots. That is basically what your look is. They are wardrobe slots and your real gear goes in a different place.
Hiding your statted clothing is not the same as having no statted clothing.
Wardrobe slots allow you to hide your armour and display different garments, but it's entirely optional. The "real" armour is still there with the stats, only hidden if you choose to equip something in the wardrobe slot.
Sorry, it's just not innovative.
You have gear that you can't see in TSW. You have wardrobe slots for your looks. I'd argue their system is a step back since you can't actually see what your regular gear looks like, only the wardrobe.
If we go by the definition of creating a mechanic or whatever that as never been done in any shape or form, it not only is extremely hard for mmos but for any video game. Can we call Watch Dogs innovative for allowing you controll over the city network and manipulate things like trafic lights? No, not being sarcasm with the question.
Like i said, the closest to innovative is the Investigation missions, but like already pointed out, puzzle quests aren't new, and i know that but in the room of mmorpgs released this year, it is IMHO the most "unique" feature.
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
How do you figure its innovative? same generic combat like wow, same generic go from quest to quest grind/path like wow. Only thing i'd slightly consider innovative is probally the UI, its fairly well done when it actually.. works right.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Originally posted by colddog04 Originally posted by dreamscaper Originally posted by Vannor Originally posted by SpottyGekko
The setting is innovative (modern day setting)
APB is modern day, as one example
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
Rift has wardrobe slots. WoW has transmogrification. EQ2 has Wardrobe slots. That is basically what your look is. They are wardrobe slots and your real gear goes in a different place.
Hiding your statted clothing is not the same as having no statted clothing.
Wardrobe slots allow you to hide your armour and display different garments, but it's entirely optional. The "real" armour is still there with the stats, only hidden if you choose to equip something in the wardrobe slot.
The result is exactly the same. You still have "something" with stats on it and "something" without. And as has been said CO and COX did this a long time ago, and with more vanity options it seems.
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
I'm not sure tbh, it can't really be considered invention because all that lore sort of exists already... it can't really be considered innovation because no other MMO has done it before. All games have to have unique lore though otherwise they'd all be sueing each other. Would you consider LOTRO to be innovative because it was the first MMO to use middle earth lore? Cause that's all they have done, taken lore from somewhere else and put it in a MMO. Lore shouldn't really be considered really unless it dramatically affects gameplay in some way, imo. The atmosphere they have created though could be considered innovation I suppose, it's almost like making world design a real art form.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
If we go by the definition of creating a mechanic or whatever that as never been done in any shape or form, it not only is extremely hard for mmos but for any video game. Can we call Watch Dogs innovative for allowing you controll over the city network and manipulate things like trafic lights? No, not being sarcasm with the question.
Like i said, the closest to innovative is the Investigation missions, but like already pointed out, puzzle quests aren't new, and i know that but in the room of mmorpgs released this year, it is IMHO the most "unique" feature.
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
Yes, it will be very difficult for any game to be truly "inventive" nowadays. There's already 1000's of video games behind us, coming up with something "never seen before" is going to be hard indeed. But innovating is less of a challenge, because you only have to come up with a new "spin" on something done before.
In MMO's, we've never had an occult/conspiracy setting before. Plenty of single-player examples, but not in MMO's.
But I'd say "Watch Dogs" definitely nailed it with that control system. That's a totally new way of interacting with the game world, I'd never seen anything like that before when I watched the E3 video. Perhaps someone else has ?
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
I'm not sure tbh, it can't really be considered invention because all that lore sort of exists already... it can't really be considered innovation because no other MMO has done it before. All games have to have unique lore though otherwise they'd all be sueing each other. Would you consider LOTRO to be innovative because it was the first MMO to use middle earth lore? Cause that's all they have done, taken lore from somewhere else and put it in a MMO. Lore shouldn't really be considered really unless it dramatically affects gameplay in some way, imo. The atmosphere they have created though could be considered innovation I suppose, it's almost like making world design a real art form.
I agree but lore does affect, well, everything in TSW. Apperantly, Funcom's Issue updates are going to chnage the world and reveal more and more missions, etc. Story is not new, but lore and story in TSW are the same in a way, IMO.
Sorry op, there is nothing revolutionary in TSW. I really like the lore, but skills and combat and crafting are not new nor industry breaking. This game will stick with some, but it will not break anything in this moldy industry. In fact, I believe TSW is a missed opportunity to shake things up. I guess fear of "not making money" gets everyone in the end.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
I'm not sure tbh, it can't really be considered invention because all that lore sort of exists already... it can't really be considered innovation because no other MMO has done it before. All games have to have unique lore though otherwise they'd all be sueing each other. Would you consider LOTRO to be innovative because it was the first MMO to use middle earth lore? Cause that's all they have done, taken lore from somewhere else and put it in a MMO. Lore shouldn't really be considered really unless it dramatically affects gameplay in some way, imo. The atmosphere they have created though could be considered innovation I suppose, it's almost like making world design a real art form.
I agree but lore does affect, well, everything in TSW. Apperantly, Funcom's Issue updates are going to chnage the world and reveal more and more missions, etc. Story is not new, but lore and story in TSW are the same in a way, IMO.
I wouldn't say it affects everything but after thinking about it for a bit I agree that it does have some affect on gameplay. Things like using computer terminals and visiting fake websites is all allowed because of the lore.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
The dungeons. They are just perfect. No trash mobs (mayeb 2-3 before a boss....normally none). The boss fights are dynamic. They basically give you WOW style raid boss types for normal dungeons. I am talking WOTLK, CATA sytles. Except they require the group to take on many seperate roles.
Ill give you an example. In the Eygpt Dungeon the final boss has 2 MOBS in it. One of them requires someone to run to a mob that is 3 stories up thru a crazy ladder system (requires jumping and not falling off) to interupt his casting, at the same time the tank has to reposition the other boss every 15 seconds..while the dps try to aviod stuff. Everyone is moving around the entire fight and requires teamwork from everyone. Thats on normal, there is an Elite and Nightmare version....
There was another fight that while I was melee...I felt worthless because you couldnt get into melee range of the boss....so we wiped the first time due to lack of dps and adds ended up killing everyone. So the second try I only focus on adds instead of bouncing back and fourth to the boss..and it worked perfectly because I took the adds out of the equation. This was with a PUG. This was not some team that was trained to work well. I knew what I was capable of and suggested it...and we tried it and went perfect. Good teamwok. You cant just focus on tank and spank in this game...wont work. Have to think.
This right here sums up my love for this game....
Forget the fact that i have been waiting for an MMO (since AO) that allowed actual clothing, where you can wear anything you want and look however you want without it affecting your stats (again, refering to actual real clothing), but the instances are just epic....there is no tank and spank (except for literraly the first boss of the first instance in the entire game lol), and all bosses have multiple phases, everyone needs to do their part. The 5 man fights literally feel like raid bosses.
Not to trash WoW , but it also seems that every pug knows what they are doing. If its someone's first time in the instace, we may wipe, but then we usualy beat it on the 2nd attempt. For those who played it, can you imagine doing the last boss of Inferno (even on nornal) with an LFG WoW pug? I have played through quite a few theampark MMOs to max lvl (SWTOR, Rift, WoW (many years or which) DCUO, AoC), and all of the instances felt stale...i did not really realise that until playing this game...thats not to say the games I mention did not have challenging instances, but TSW really points out their flaws...its SO refreshing not having to mow through trash for 20 min, and fight a boss for 1.5....TSW dungons last as long as other games, but they are literally all boss fights, with fights lasting 5+ min is some cases.
Everything I have experianced about this game is extreemly refrshing...i was literally burnt out playing WoW/Rift/Diablo, and was awaiting GW2 (just for something new), and to be honest, this game wasn't even on my radar....but honestly, this was my best game investment in at least the last 2 years...
Well, TSW does bring many healthy ideas to the MMO-genre however considering it as the most innovative mmorpg of the year is kinda too early since games like Guild Wars 2 aren´t out yet. Sadly, this forum doesn´t give the best chance talking about something with logic since fanbois just jump in shouting about how '' stupid '' u r.
So, basically, we can´t decide until GW2 is out, which is a game that can compete very effectively when it comes to innovation. I won´t be surprised if I will get 100 comments explaining for me that GW2 is only another fantasy mmo, but my answer will simply be: innovation isn´t something about the skin, in the most cases, but about the mechanics. GW2 is a game that develope these old mechanics, known to all, and represent them in a very innovative way, making the game pretty hyped. Don´t await GW2 to be that popular if it doesn´t brough something new to the genre, and so far it has done a great job.
There are many healthy ideas in the both games and it is just u who will decide which is the most innovative in the most effective way. It just like choosing ur favo game, it really depens on the personal opinion much. However, in my opinion, TSW doesn´t bring that much to the MMO-genre itself but to the RPG-industry. The game is kinda far away from the MMO-style which became known for all after UO. TSW is a game that does focus on RPG when GW2 in on the hand, most focusing on MMO-gaming brining very healthy ideas to the '' open-world formula ''. None of these games are perfect so far, but with further work from the both companies, these games can end up making a big '' blow ''.
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
I'm not sure tbh, it can't really be considered invention because all that lore sort of exists already... it can't really be considered innovation because no other MMO has done it before. All games have to have unique lore though otherwise they'd all be sueing each other. Would you consider LOTRO to be innovative because it was the first MMO to use middle earth lore? Cause that's all they have done, taken lore from somewhere else and put it in a MMO. Lore shouldn't really be considered really unless it dramatically affects gameplay in some way, imo. The atmosphere they have created though could be considered innovation I suppose, it's almost like making world design a real art form.
I agree but lore does affect, well, everything in TSW. Apperantly, Funcom's Issue updates are going to chnage the world and reveal more and more missions, etc. Story is not new, but lore and story in TSW are the same in a way, IMO.
I would not consider Lotro as innovative where lore/setting is concerned. The lore/setting there is solidly and squarely based in medieval fantasy. The same themes and archetypes that you saw in UO, EQ and all the subsequent medieval fantasy games.
I think lore should be considered in the case of TSW. It's front-and-center in the gameplay, almost every single thing you do is related directly to the lore and backstory of the game. I can't think of any other MMO where I was so aware of the lore/story. Many other MMO's you can play all the way to level-cap without learning much about the lore unless you made a clear effort. It just wasn't really an intrinsic part of your "everyday life" in the game.
I would not consider Lotro as innovative where lore/setting is concerned. The lore/setting there is solidly and squarely based in medieval fantasy. The same themes and archetypes that you saw in UO, EQ and all the subsequent medieval fantasy games.
I think lore should be considered in the case of TSW. It's front-and-center in the gameplay, almost every single thing you do is related directly to the lore and backstory of the game. I can't think of any other MMO where I was so aware of the lore/story. Many other MMO's you can play all the way to level-cap without learning much about the lore unless you made a clear effort. It just wasn't really an intrinsic part of your "everyday life" in the game.
SWTOR was the first MMO that delivered a story/lore driven experience on a similar level of TSW. I just think TSW is better. But when it comes to what you are talking about, SWTOR was first.
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
I'm not sure tbh, it can't really be considered invention because all that lore sort of exists already... it can't really be considered innovation because no other MMO has done it before. All games have to have unique lore though otherwise they'd all be sueing each other. Would you consider LOTRO to be innovative because it was the first MMO to use middle earth lore? Cause that's all they have done, taken lore from somewhere else and put it in a MMO. Lore shouldn't really be considered really unless it dramatically affects gameplay in some way, imo. The atmosphere they have created though could be considered innovation I suppose, it's almost like making world design a real art form.
I agree but lore does affect, well, everything in TSW. Apperantly, Funcom's Issue updates are going to chnage the world and reveal more and more missions, etc. Story is not new, but lore and story in TSW are the same in a way, IMO.
I wouldn't say it affects everything but after thinking about it for a bit I agree that it does have some affect on gameplay. Things like using computer terminals and visiting fake websites is all allowed because of the lore.
I asked about the lore because i felt it's, well, somewhat original as a whole. Honestly, now that i think about, the idea of the world changing pernanemtly isn't new. After all, Cata chnaged insane amounts of it. And it was because of the lore
Another thing in the Inv Missions is that, while puzzle quests aren't new, using ARG elements and in-game browsers kind oiff is. But again, EVE as an in-game browser too. But the apllication for each is different in a way,.
Eeven talking about lore, GW2's take on Elf and Gnome races from normal fantasy mmos to it's own unique races, but can we call that innovative?
in the end, i think that all that matters is what one feels himself. To me, TSW isn't 100% different. It's still very much a themeapark, but unique in enough areas, like lore, IMissions, etc to be considered the most innovative mmorgp coming out this year for me. So will feel it's GW2, other PS2, which are 2 games i like very much myself. To each their own. All that i personally care about is how much fun they are.
I would not consider Lotro as innovative where lore/setting is concerned. The lore/setting there is solidly and squarely based in medieval fantasy. The same themes and archetypes that you saw in UO, EQ and all the subsequent medieval fantasy games.
I think lore should be considered in the case of TSW. It's front-and-center in the gameplay, almost every single thing you do is related directly to the lore and backstory of the game. I can't think of any other MMO where I was so aware of the lore/story. Many other MMO's you can play all the way to level-cap without learning much about the lore unless you made a clear effort. It just wasn't really an intrinsic part of your "everyday life" in the game.
SWTOR was the first MMO that delivered a story/lore driven experience on a similar level of TSW. I just think TSW is better. But when it comes to what you are talking about, SWTOR was first.
Yes, SW:TOR "did it first", not arguing that. But did they do it "right" ?
But, as an example, in SW:TOR the dungeon instances didn't really feel connected to the world I was playing in. In TSW, the instance in Kingsmouth is all about the wreck of the Polaris, which brought the Draug to the island in numbers. It feels like a natural extension of the Kingsmouth zone. It's clearly a part of that zone's lore and backstory. The same with Inferno in SC, it's an extension of the events taking place at the Overlook Motel.
In SW:TOR the first popular instance takes place between your starter world and the next planet. It's not an extension of either story, it feels tacked-on. If you skipped it, you'd not know any more or less about the starter world or the next planet. SW:TOR's dungeons never felt like they were part of the game flow. Having to run them from Fleet also took you out of your normal progression.
I would not consider Lotro as innovative where lore/setting is concerned. The lore/setting there is solidly and squarely based in medieval fantasy. The same themes and archetypes that you saw in UO, EQ and all the subsequent medieval fantasy games.
I think lore should be considered in the case of TSW. It's front-and-center in the gameplay, almost every single thing you do is related directly to the lore and backstory of the game. I can't think of any other MMO where I was so aware of the lore/story. Many other MMO's you can play all the way to level-cap without learning much about the lore unless you made a clear effort. It just wasn't really an intrinsic part of your "everyday life" in the game.
SWTOR was the first MMO that delivered a story/lore driven experience on a similar level of TSW. I just think TSW is better. But when it comes to what you are talking about, SWTOR was first.
Yes, SW:TOR "did it first", not arguing that. But did they do it "right" ?
But, as an example, in SW:TOR the dungeon instances didn't really feel connected to the world I was playing in. In TSW, the instance in Kingsmouth is all about the wreck of the Polaris, which brought the Draug to the island in numbers. It feels like a natural extension of the Kingsmouth zone. It's clearly a part of that zone's lore and backstory. The same with Inferno in SC, it's an extension of the events taking place at the Overlook Motel.
In SW:TOR the first popular instance takes place between your starter world and the next planet. It's not an extension of either story, it feels tacked-on. If you skipped it, you'd not know any more or less about the starter world or the next planet. SW:TOR's dungeons never felt like they were part of the game flow. Having to run them from Fleet also took you out of your normal progression.
Why are you talking about instances now?
SWTOR delivered a story/lore driven experience that is front and center in a very similar way to TSW. TSW does it well, but it's not innovative. Actually, I would argue that TSW directly pulled from single player experiences presented by Bioware single player games (ME, DAO, ETC.) - heavy on cutscenes with a lot of atmospheric quality. Then SWTOR came out using a similar content delivery method and TSW followed suit.
It's a decent game but "most innovative?" Let's not get too carried away here. It's WoW with a handful of quests you have to use your brain for. And yes, I do mean handful. Kingsmouth has 5, Savage Coast has 1 and Blue Mountain has 1.
Saying TSW is like WoW with x, is like saying Home Alone is Beverly Hills Cops with Christmas.
Like I said, let's not get too carried away here. It's a themepark MMO through and through. There are a handful of quest that require you to use your brain to solve, sadly, the hardest so far was "Kingsmouth Code," the rest were easy. There is also so little of them that they are all but insignificant. There are 7 total during the first 3 zones, 5 of them are in the first zone. Most of the other quests place a marker on your map and you know exactly where to go and what to do. The game also has zone progression, typical of themepark MMOs. You move from Kingsmouth, to Savage Coast to Blue Mountain to the Egypt zones and then Romania.
It has a really cool setting and stories but it's a themepark game like WoW.
This is an example of why no MMO will ever make some people happy.
People ask for "more x" for years. A developer finally steps up and puts more "x" into their game, and what do people do? They immediately move the goal-post by saying "well it has "x", but it's not "y" enough", and dismiss it.
I'll be the first to admit when a MMO feels like a wow-knockoff to me. In a heartbeat. I have no problem pointing it out when I see it.
I see people saying TSW is another themepark like WoW and I wonder what game they're playing, because TSW has been anything *but* WoW-like to me. In WoW and its ilk, I'm guided very deliberately along a very clearly pre-defined path, through a series of discrete areas where everything is laid out, fine-tuned and balanced meticulously for the specific level range I will be when I'm sent there from my previous quest hub. Because the designers specifically created it that way. There's very little room for deviation. If I go one way I'm quickly in over my head. If I go the other way, I'm overpowered for the content.
In TSW, I'm all over the place. Quests lead me all around Kingsmouth, into Savage Coast, into Blue Mountain and back. They're leading me to different cities to undertake different tasks. I can go back to Kingsmouth and still find content that will kick my ass out there, even when everything in another corner is effortless. I've been sent through areas I've already progressed beyond only to reach an area where the mobs will wipe the floor with me. I've had to sneak and/or haul-ass through very dangerous areas to complete the tier for a quest/mission I'm doing. TSW is the first MMO I've played since FFXI where I've had to do that.
That has never been the case in WoW, Rift, LoTRO or any other linear theme-park MMO. In WoW-like games, once you're done with a zone, you're done with that zone. It's obsolete. There is no "going back". There is no "corner of the map with higher level mobs who will eat you alive". In TSW, there are reasons to go back to zones all the way up 'til the highest tiers of progression. It is not linear.
Like with any MMO, the experience you get out of it is derived from what you put into it. If you're approaching it like a standard linear theme-park, then that's the kind of experence you're going to have; and it's your own doing. Not the game's. Those who aren't trying to force a WoW-shaped peg into a TSW-shaped hole aren't having that "issue".
As for "being forced to have certain builds to go through certain areas". Wrong. There is no "one template you must follow". That, again, is self-imposed behavior. People are used relying on cookie-cutter builds in other MMOs, so they automatically assume the same must be true of TSW as well. If you play the game based on pre-determined cookie-cutter builds, then you're going to get a cookie-cutter experience. You aren't forced into playing that way. You've chosen to play that way.
TSE offers innumerable possible ways to mix and match weapons, actives and passives, with various Talisman setups to enhance and augment them, different synergies to explore and bridge abilities to take advantage of. The people who experiement and try different things are finding setups custom-tailored to their preferred playstyle, or a variety thereof, and they're having fun. Those who immediately look for "the best build templates" and choose not experiment are getting exactly the cookie-cutter experience they're seeking, and they're on the forums complaining about it.
As usual, many players are their own worst enemies, cornering themselves needlessly into a playstyle they obviously don't enjoy, under the self-imposed mandate that "they're supposed to play that way"... and then blaming the game/developers for it.
If you want an "off-the-rails" experience in TSW, it's easy. First, get yourselves off the rails. Stop chasing or repeating other people's playstyles. Explore, experiment and find your own playstyle that works for you and that you actually enjoy. Crazy concept, I know, but it also actually works.
I would not consider Lotro as innovative where lore/setting is concerned. The lore/setting there is solidly and squarely based in medieval fantasy. The same themes and archetypes that you saw in UO, EQ and all the subsequent medieval fantasy games.
I think lore should be considered in the case of TSW. It's front-and-center in the gameplay, almost every single thing you do is related directly to the lore and backstory of the game. I can't think of any other MMO where I was so aware of the lore/story. Many other MMO's you can play all the way to level-cap without learning much about the lore unless you made a clear effort. It just wasn't really an intrinsic part of your "everyday life" in the game.
SWTOR was the first MMO that delivered a story/lore driven experience on a similar level of TSW. I just think TSW is better. But when it comes to what you are talking about, SWTOR was first.
Yes, SW:TOR "did it first", not arguing that. But did they do it "right" ?
But, as an example, in SW:TOR the dungeon instances didn't really feel connected to the world I was playing in. In TSW, the instance in Kingsmouth is all about the wreck of the Polaris, which brought the Draug to the island in numbers. It feels like a natural extension of the Kingsmouth zone. It's clearly a part of that zone's lore and backstory. The same with Inferno in SC, it's an extension of the events taking place at the Overlook Motel.
In SW:TOR the first popular instance takes place between your starter world and the next planet. It's not an extension of either story, it feels tacked-on. If you skipped it, you'd not know any more or less about the starter world or the next planet. SW:TOR's dungeons never felt like they were part of the game flow. Having to run them from Fleet also took you out of your normal progression.
Why are you talking about instances now?
SWTOR delivered a story/lore driven experience that is front and center in a very similar way to TSW. TSW does it well, but it's not innovative. Actually, I would argue that TSW directly pulled from single player experiences presented by Bioware single player games (ME, DAO, ETC.) - heavy on cutscenes with a lot of atmospheric quality. Then SWTOR came out using a similar content delivery method and TSW followed suit.
I mentioned instances because I was saying that everything in TSW is directly related to the lore/story as it unfolds. Even the dungeons are placed in such a way that they integrate seamlessly into the story as you travel through it. They fit the setting and are closely connected to the zone they exist in.
I did not get the same feeling drom the SW:TOR dungeons. They felt disconnected from where I was in the story at that time.
I never claimed that TSW was innovative because it had a story or used cutscenes.
The character equipment is innovative (no stats on visible gear, gear with stats is never visible)
Champions Online did this, I'm sure there were more as well.
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
Rift has wardrobe slots. WoW has transmogrification. EQ2 has Wardrobe slots. That is basically what your look is. They are wardrobe slots and your real gear goes in a different place.
Those are all wardrobe setups though. Pieces of gear still dictate what your appearance is. With TSW, gear and appearance are completely disconnected, like in CoH and CO.
SWTOR delivered a story/lore driven experience that is front and center in a very similar way to TSW. TSW does it well, but it's not innovative. Actually, I would argue that TSW directly pulled from single player experiences presented by Bioware single player games (ME, DAO, ETC.) - heavy on cutscenes with a lot of atmospheric quality. Then SWTOR came out using a similar content delivery method and TSW followed suit.
I mentioned instances because I was saying that everything in TSW is directly related to the lore/story as it unfolds. Even the dungeons are placed in such a way that they integrate seamlessly into the story as you travel through it. They fit the setting and are closely connected to the zone they exist in.
I did not get the same feeling drom the SW:TOR dungeons. They felt disconnected from where I was in the story at that time.
I never claimed that TSW was innovative because it had a story or used cutscenes.
Are you saying it's innovative because dungeons are in the correct zones and connect to the story? WoW did exactly the same thing with... BC? Cataclysm? The story lead you straight into dungeons as you went along. The questing direction and stories were very good at giving the player a sense of direction and showing them what the instances were about before offering main "dungeon quests." Often times, the dungeons were not even a culmination of a zone's progress, but instead the dungeons ran along side the main story development.
That part of TSW is definitely not new or innovative. It's difficult to get a grasp on what you are talking about because you keep shifting it, but trying to cram this whole story/lore driven thing into the word "innovation" doesn't work for me at all.
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Wow, the first MMO that came out in 2012 must have been pretty innovative then if we just ignore games before then. That first MMO released this year basically created everything according to your logic.
And, yes, in CO you could go over to the custome maker anytime you liked and change every single aspect of your outfit, masks, accessories, bracers, arms (lower and upper), gloves, chest, back, waist etc. etc. including different textures on models. add alterations to existing models. Find accessories you can attach onto every single piece from 1 body part.
CO's outfit system has long been, and still is, the most customizable one there has ever been.
Hiding your statted clothing is not the same as having no statted clothing.
Wardrobe slots allow you to hide your armour and display different garments, but it's entirely optional. The "real" armour is still there with the stats, only hidden if you choose to equip something in the wardrobe slot.
I disagree.
Point conceded then, if Champions Online did it first, then statless "armour" is not an innovation.
No, not saying all games before 2012 are to be ignored. It's just that APB isn't really an MMORPG in my book. It's a strange beast, but closer to a lobby-based shooter than it is to a "classic" MMORPG.
Sorry, it's just not innovative.
You have gear that you can't see in TSW. You have wardrobe slots for your looks. I'd argue their system is a step back since you can't actually see what your regular gear looks like, only the wardrobe.
If we go by the definition of creating a mechanic or whatever that as never been done in any shape or form, it not only is extremely hard for mmos but for any video game. Can we call Watch Dogs innovative for allowing you controll over the city network and manipulate things like trafic lights? No, not being sarcasm with the question.
Like i said, the closest to innovative is the Investigation missions, but like already pointed out, puzzle quests aren't new, and i know that but in the room of mmorpgs released this year, it is IMHO the most "unique" feature.
BTW, is the lore innovative? Real world setting is not new, but a world where every myth and legend and inpirations from, well, anything on earth exists, sounds quite innovational even in general video games, specially mmos.
How do you figure its innovative? same generic combat like wow, same generic go from quest to quest grind/path like wow. Only thing i'd slightly consider innovative is probally the UI, its fairly well done when it actually.. works right.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
So did City of Heroes. But up to this point pretty much every non-superhero MMO has used the visible gear setup.
Rift has wardrobe slots. WoW has transmogrification. EQ2 has Wardrobe slots. That is basically what your look is. They are wardrobe slots and your real gear goes in a different place.
Hiding your statted clothing is not the same as having no statted clothing.
Wardrobe slots allow you to hide your armour and display different garments, but it's entirely optional. The "real" armour is still there with the stats, only hidden if you choose to equip something in the wardrobe slot.
The result is exactly the same. You still have "something" with stats on it and "something" without. And as has been said CO and COX did this a long time ago, and with more vanity options it seems.I'm not sure tbh, it can't really be considered invention because all that lore sort of exists already... it can't really be considered innovation because no other MMO has done it before. All games have to have unique lore though otherwise they'd all be sueing each other. Would you consider LOTRO to be innovative because it was the first MMO to use middle earth lore? Cause that's all they have done, taken lore from somewhere else and put it in a MMO. Lore shouldn't really be considered really unless it dramatically affects gameplay in some way, imo. The atmosphere they have created though could be considered innovation I suppose, it's almost like making world design a real art form.
Yes, it will be very difficult for any game to be truly "inventive" nowadays. There's already 1000's of video games behind us, coming up with something "never seen before" is going to be hard indeed. But innovating is less of a challenge, because you only have to come up with a new "spin" on something done before.
In MMO's, we've never had an occult/conspiracy setting before. Plenty of single-player examples, but not in MMO's.
But I'd say "Watch Dogs" definitely nailed it with that control system. That's a totally new way of interacting with the game world, I'd never seen anything like that before when I watched the E3 video. Perhaps someone else has ?
I agree but lore does affect, well, everything in TSW. Apperantly, Funcom's Issue updates are going to chnage the world and reveal more and more missions, etc. Story is not new, but lore and story in TSW are the same in a way, IMO.
Sorry op, there is nothing revolutionary in TSW. I really like the lore, but skills and combat and crafting are not new nor industry breaking. This game will stick with some, but it will not break anything in this moldy industry. In fact, I believe TSW is a missed opportunity to shake things up. I guess fear of "not making money" gets everyone in the end.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
I wouldn't say it affects everything but after thinking about it for a bit I agree that it does have some affect on gameplay. Things like using computer terminals and visiting fake websites is all allowed because of the lore.
This right here sums up my love for this game....
Forget the fact that i have been waiting for an MMO (since AO) that allowed actual clothing, where you can wear anything you want and look however you want without it affecting your stats (again, refering to actual real clothing), but the instances are just epic....there is no tank and spank (except for literraly the first boss of the first instance in the entire game lol), and all bosses have multiple phases, everyone needs to do their part. The 5 man fights literally feel like raid bosses.
Not to trash WoW , but it also seems that every pug knows what they are doing. If its someone's first time in the instace, we may wipe, but then we usualy beat it on the 2nd attempt. For those who played it, can you imagine doing the last boss of Inferno (even on nornal) with an LFG WoW pug? I have played through quite a few theampark MMOs to max lvl (SWTOR, Rift, WoW (many years or which) DCUO, AoC), and all of the instances felt stale...i did not really realise that until playing this game...thats not to say the games I mention did not have challenging instances, but TSW really points out their flaws...its SO refreshing not having to mow through trash for 20 min, and fight a boss for 1.5....TSW dungons last as long as other games, but they are literally all boss fights, with fights lasting 5+ min is some cases.
Everything I have experianced about this game is extreemly refrshing...i was literally burnt out playing WoW/Rift/Diablo, and was awaiting GW2 (just for something new), and to be honest, this game wasn't even on my radar....but honestly, this was my best game investment in at least the last 2 years...
Well, TSW does bring many healthy ideas to the MMO-genre however considering it as the most innovative mmorpg of the year is kinda too early since games like Guild Wars 2 aren´t out yet. Sadly, this forum doesn´t give the best chance talking about something with logic since fanbois just jump in shouting about how '' stupid '' u r.
So, basically, we can´t decide until GW2 is out, which is a game that can compete very effectively when it comes to innovation. I won´t be surprised if I will get 100 comments explaining for me that GW2 is only another fantasy mmo, but my answer will simply be: innovation isn´t something about the skin, in the most cases, but about the mechanics. GW2 is a game that develope these old mechanics, known to all, and represent them in a very innovative way, making the game pretty hyped. Don´t await GW2 to be that popular if it doesn´t brough something new to the genre, and so far it has done a great job.
There are many healthy ideas in the both games and it is just u who will decide which is the most innovative in the most effective way. It just like choosing ur favo game, it really depens on the personal opinion much. However, in my opinion, TSW doesn´t bring that much to the MMO-genre itself but to the RPG-industry. The game is kinda far away from the MMO-style which became known for all after UO. TSW is a game that does focus on RPG when GW2 in on the hand, most focusing on MMO-gaming brining very healthy ideas to the '' open-world formula ''. None of these games are perfect so far, but with further work from the both companies, these games can end up making a big '' blow ''.
I would not consider Lotro as innovative where lore/setting is concerned. The lore/setting there is solidly and squarely based in medieval fantasy. The same themes and archetypes that you saw in UO, EQ and all the subsequent medieval fantasy games.
I think lore should be considered in the case of TSW. It's front-and-center in the gameplay, almost every single thing you do is related directly to the lore and backstory of the game. I can't think of any other MMO where I was so aware of the lore/story. Many other MMO's you can play all the way to level-cap without learning much about the lore unless you made a clear effort. It just wasn't really an intrinsic part of your "everyday life" in the game.
SWTOR was the first MMO that delivered a story/lore driven experience on a similar level of TSW. I just think TSW is better. But when it comes to what you are talking about, SWTOR was first.
I asked about the lore because i felt it's, well, somewhat original as a whole. Honestly, now that i think about, the idea of the world changing pernanemtly isn't new. After all, Cata chnaged insane amounts of it. And it was because of the lore
Another thing in the Inv Missions is that, while puzzle quests aren't new, using ARG elements and in-game browsers kind oiff is. But again, EVE as an in-game browser too. But the apllication for each is different in a way,.
Eeven talking about lore, GW2's take on Elf and Gnome races from normal fantasy mmos to it's own unique races, but can we call that innovative?
in the end, i think that all that matters is what one feels himself. To me, TSW isn't 100% different. It's still very much a themeapark, but unique in enough areas, like lore, IMissions, etc to be considered the most innovative mmorgp coming out this year for me. So will feel it's GW2, other PS2, which are 2 games i like very much myself. To each their own. All that i personally care about is how much fun they are.
Yes, SW:TOR "did it first", not arguing that. But did they do it "right" ?
But, as an example, in SW:TOR the dungeon instances didn't really feel connected to the world I was playing in. In TSW, the instance in Kingsmouth is all about the wreck of the Polaris, which brought the Draug to the island in numbers. It feels like a natural extension of the Kingsmouth zone. It's clearly a part of that zone's lore and backstory. The same with Inferno in SC, it's an extension of the events taking place at the Overlook Motel.
In SW:TOR the first popular instance takes place between your starter world and the next planet. It's not an extension of either story, it feels tacked-on. If you skipped it, you'd not know any more or less about the starter world or the next planet. SW:TOR's dungeons never felt like they were part of the game flow. Having to run them from Fleet also took you out of your normal progression.
Does that make anyone else kind of sad?
Why are you talking about instances now?
SWTOR delivered a story/lore driven experience that is front and center in a very similar way to TSW. TSW does it well, but it's not innovative. Actually, I would argue that TSW directly pulled from single player experiences presented by Bioware single player games (ME, DAO, ETC.) - heavy on cutscenes with a lot of atmospheric quality. Then SWTOR came out using a similar content delivery method and TSW followed suit.
This is an example of why no MMO will ever make some people happy.
People ask for "more x" for years. A developer finally steps up and puts more "x" into their game, and what do people do? They immediately move the goal-post by saying "well it has "x", but it's not "y" enough", and dismiss it.
I'll be the first to admit when a MMO feels like a wow-knockoff to me. In a heartbeat. I have no problem pointing it out when I see it.
I see people saying TSW is another themepark like WoW and I wonder what game they're playing, because TSW has been anything *but* WoW-like to me. In WoW and its ilk, I'm guided very deliberately along a very clearly pre-defined path, through a series of discrete areas where everything is laid out, fine-tuned and balanced meticulously for the specific level range I will be when I'm sent there from my previous quest hub. Because the designers specifically created it that way. There's very little room for deviation. If I go one way I'm quickly in over my head. If I go the other way, I'm overpowered for the content.
In TSW, I'm all over the place. Quests lead me all around Kingsmouth, into Savage Coast, into Blue Mountain and back. They're leading me to different cities to undertake different tasks. I can go back to Kingsmouth and still find content that will kick my ass out there, even when everything in another corner is effortless. I've been sent through areas I've already progressed beyond only to reach an area where the mobs will wipe the floor with me. I've had to sneak and/or haul-ass through very dangerous areas to complete the tier for a quest/mission I'm doing. TSW is the first MMO I've played since FFXI where I've had to do that.
That has never been the case in WoW, Rift, LoTRO or any other linear theme-park MMO. In WoW-like games, once you're done with a zone, you're done with that zone. It's obsolete. There is no "going back". There is no "corner of the map with higher level mobs who will eat you alive". In TSW, there are reasons to go back to zones all the way up 'til the highest tiers of progression. It is not linear.
Like with any MMO, the experience you get out of it is derived from what you put into it. If you're approaching it like a standard linear theme-park, then that's the kind of experence you're going to have; and it's your own doing. Not the game's. Those who aren't trying to force a WoW-shaped peg into a TSW-shaped hole aren't having that "issue".
As for "being forced to have certain builds to go through certain areas". Wrong. There is no "one template you must follow". That, again, is self-imposed behavior. People are used relying on cookie-cutter builds in other MMOs, so they automatically assume the same must be true of TSW as well. If you play the game based on pre-determined cookie-cutter builds, then you're going to get a cookie-cutter experience. You aren't forced into playing that way. You've chosen to play that way.
TSE offers innumerable possible ways to mix and match weapons, actives and passives, with various Talisman setups to enhance and augment them, different synergies to explore and bridge abilities to take advantage of. The people who experiement and try different things are finding setups custom-tailored to their preferred playstyle, or a variety thereof, and they're having fun. Those who immediately look for "the best build templates" and choose not experiment are getting exactly the cookie-cutter experience they're seeking, and they're on the forums complaining about it.
As usual, many players are their own worst enemies, cornering themselves needlessly into a playstyle they obviously don't enjoy, under the self-imposed mandate that "they're supposed to play that way"... and then blaming the game/developers for it.
If you want an "off-the-rails" experience in TSW, it's easy. First, get yourselves off the rails. Stop chasing or repeating other people's playstyles. Explore, experiment and find your own playstyle that works for you and that you actually enjoy. Crazy concept, I know, but it also actually works.
I mentioned instances because I was saying that everything in TSW is directly related to the lore/story as it unfolds. Even the dungeons are placed in such a way that they integrate seamlessly into the story as you travel through it. They fit the setting and are closely connected to the zone they exist in.
I did not get the same feeling drom the SW:TOR dungeons. They felt disconnected from where I was in the story at that time.
I never claimed that TSW was innovative because it had a story or used cutscenes.
Those are all wardrobe setups though. Pieces of gear still dictate what your appearance is. With TSW, gear and appearance are completely disconnected, like in CoH and CO.
Are you saying it's innovative because dungeons are in the correct zones and connect to the story? WoW did exactly the same thing with... BC? Cataclysm? The story lead you straight into dungeons as you went along. The questing direction and stories were very good at giving the player a sense of direction and showing them what the instances were about before offering main "dungeon quests." Often times, the dungeons were not even a culmination of a zone's progress, but instead the dungeons ran along side the main story development.
That part of TSW is definitely not new or innovative. It's difficult to get a grasp on what you are talking about because you keep shifting it, but trying to cram this whole story/lore driven thing into the word "innovation" doesn't work for me at all.