disclaimer: not a GW2 fan-boy, undecided about buying (though i feel the desire building :P )
anyways, in the 10 years i've been playing MMOs i realized that for me the only way to truly advance my character is in looks, to me power is defined by the look of my gear. i undesrstand that not everyone may agree with my view. people sometimes need to 'feel' a power increase rather than seeing it, i'm not like that. it is counter-productive for me because i am a PvP oriented player, and battles are tough when you are playing a warrior class and are wearing leather because it looks better. but hell, i feel that if i'm going to play a game, i want to play it in a way that makes me happy, and if in the end i still manage to be a prolific pvper, then power to me.
the 'leather' armor scenario above was in WoW, and things like that always kept happening, eventually i found warrior (and level) appropriate gear that made me look the way i desired to look. but this is in no way limited to themeparks. i remember in EvE i would roll a 'drake' notbecause i found it 'best' for the task (though it did well) but because it looked 'good' for the task.
i dont mind grinding as long as i'm not forced to do it in order to stay competitive. with grinding for cosmetic gear i can actually take my time, and in reality it wont be grinding, at least anymore. if i play the game and mess around and run a doungeon i like and am therefore rewarded with a set, why would i call that grinding? you should not.
well it's all about customization, isnt it? in a fantasy, most if not all of us strive to reflect some part of the "self" in our online personas. it could be humour, heroism, badassery, things we are or thing we wish to be. customization is everything, and it comes down to 1) playstyle (abilities, traits, class), and 2) aesthetics.
what pisses me off about most MMO's is they dont allow me to customize either of those! WoW and EVE may be great games, but the specs i enjoyed the most were never really viable in PVE or PVP (compared to others), and i never really looked the way i wanted to because i couldnt find the right armor pieces, or the ship i liked aesthetically did not coincide with my playstyle. i was in love with CoH for a number of years simply because it was the only MMo that actually allowed me to look the way i wanted, even if it didnt quite get my playstyle right.
this is really RP'ing 101 - allow players to customize themselves. but if youre satisfied by achieving higher gear stats, then you simply dont see the illusion of it. or you enjoy it.
This is one of those disturbing times when I realize how startingly out of touch I am with the mainstream in general.
I am astounded to see over 80% of respondents would grind for cosmetic gear, something I can't even imagine wasting time on.
No wonder so many cash shops sell cosmetic items, something I never would consider purchasing unless it actually did give real benefits/advantage.
Maybe in the first place "looks" does not interest you as much. Maybe you're just the type of player who values performance above aesthetic?
I'm not neccessarily saying that people willing to grind for consmetics(like me) values the opposite. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Sometimes I want to top the damage meters, and see big criticals. It also never hurts to make my character pretty (to my eyes at least).
I came into MMOs through GW1 but have been playing a gear-progression game for the last few months (SWTOR) while waiting for GW2 to release. Unlike some I've been enjoying The Old Republic, while not being blind to its faults.
I'm new enough to gear progression that I found it an interesting contrast, but I can see the grind getting old for me rather quickly. The main issue with gear-progression, as many have said, is that there is no other option. Much of the high-end content is gated until you acquire the right gear and stats to play it. Fair enough, you could argue that you earn your right to play the high end content, and this does give a sense of achievement, but when the grind starts to feel like a second job, you start to question why you are playing the game. And when you are in the end-game grind, there isn't anything else to do.
In contrast, with a skill-progression game like GW1 and GW2, the gameplay progression comes through finding optimum builds using skills and attributes (traits in GW2) and learning how to use them well. In GW2 I can see weapon swapping and fine tuning of traits becoming very important, as well as selection of the utility skills. There was so much depth to this in GW1 and I am sure there will be in GW2. Other achievements such as titles and acquisition of rare items provide goals to aim for and a similar sense of accomplishment, but they are entirely optional. You choose which mountains you want to climb and when. In the meantime you can take part in any content the game has to offer, and your success or failure depends on your choice of build and your ability to play it well.
I can see that for someone used to the clearly defined tiers of gear-progression, this may seem rather vague. Skill progression can have its own frustrations too: when you find yourself up against the limits of your own talent or reflexes there is nowhere to hide. Practising your skills, dodging and kiting etc can be its own kind of grind, and much as I loved GW1, it did have its fair share of elitists too.
Maybe we just need to recognise our own preferred flavour of grind and pick our games accordingly.
Of course not. What an incredible waste of time. Gw2 is famed for not having grind though; right?
Sometimes I get the feeling that you guys will say anything to justify your love for Gw2. I mean come on... spending hours of your time for gear that just looks different so you can show off or whatever... really... all of you would do that? I'm sure some will but I refuse to believe everyone above will. I'm sure some of you are just doing that "this is part of the game I like, so I must like everything about it" thing.
Grinding isn't what you think it is. Grinding is doing the same task repeatedly in one session. Ex. Killing 1000 boars in a row. Repeating content at your own pace isn't considered grinding. It's considered a goal.
Of course not. What an incredible waste of time. Gw2 is famed for not having grind though; right?
Sometimes I get the feeling that you guys will say anything to justify your love for Gw2. I mean come on... spending hours of your time for gear that just looks different so you can show off or whatever... really... all of you would do that? I'm sure some will but I refuse to believe everyone above will. I'm sure some of you are just doing that "this is part of the game I like, so I must like everything about it" thing.
Grinding isn't what you think it is. Grinding is doing the same task repeatedly in one session. Ex. Killing 1000 boars in a row. Repeating content at your own pace isn't considered grinding. It's considered a goal.
Grinding is is gringing wether it's killing 100 bears or doing the same wvw or pvp or pve to get gear. NOw with that said getting gear that serves no purpose other then looks will not be enough to keep people around for long endgame look at all the the faill mmos that can't hack it and they have upgrades for grinding i have a hard time beliving half the yes answers for this poll or they don't know what end game is in guild wars 2 cause u don't get better gear u get cosmetic items which is lame and won't keep anyone around for long.
I loved the way this works in GW1, it really did give prestige to the player, and it required some hard work. Anet also tried to nerf every fast gold farming by tweaking monster UI and altering farm build skills. This led the game to be even more exciting. Lots of people theorycrafted with awesome builds and farming zones. It was so fun grinding that way because you almost always forced to think and do something new. Beside from that dungeons were really challenging and fun.
If they can achieve this with GW2 at high lvl content as well, it is going to be legandary....wait for it...dary.
Yes, and I've done it in even in Wow (the aforementioned grinding for "statistical bonuses" game), though I often worked hardest for mounts which provided no benefit.
I think I did Settek Halls heroic mode at least 100 times on two toons to get the Raven Lord mount. I also farmed substantially to gain enough gold and get the mats, and upgraded my crafting to personally make and own the Sands of Time Dragon -elixir mount (I've been away far too long to remember the correct name) at the beginning of Cataclysm
So yes, if it's shiny and I like it's peculiar shade of shinyness, then you will see me going for it.
Of course not. What an incredible waste of time. Gw2 is famed for not having grind though; right?
Sometimes I get the feeling that you guys will say anything to justify your love for Gw2. I mean come on... spending hours of your time for gear that just looks different so you can show off or whatever... really... all of you would do that? I'm sure some will but I refuse to believe everyone above will. I'm sure some of you are just doing that "this is part of the game I like, so I must like everything about it" thing.
Grinding isn't what you think it is. Grinding is doing the same task repeatedly in one session. Ex. Killing 1000 boars in a row. Repeating content at your own pace isn't considered grinding. It's considered a goal.
Grinding is is gringing wether it's killing 100 bears or doing the same wvw or pvp or pve to get gear. NOw with that said getting gear that serves no purpose other then looks will not be enough to keep people around for long endgame look at all the the faill mmos that can't hack it and they have upgrades for grinding i have a hard time beliving half the yes answers for this poll or they don't know what end game is in guild wars 2 cause u don't get better gear u get cosmetic items which is lame and won't keep anyone around for long.
Actually I like more that idea after playing other grind games, k is about the same thing BUT the problem with the other system is that you are limited to specific instances like the DS in WoW (which i hate).. With GW2 system you have all the game as viable content, you can do whatever dungeon, DE, etc you want doesn't matter the level and still a challenge... No need to grind only that end game dungeon that you don't like.
I probably will grind for the things I really want but then again maybe I won't. It is cosmetic so to me it means nothing. Maybe sometime I don't know.
One thing I do know is women will probably love going and getting all this cosmetic stuff. My wife will love this aspect hah. Guess if we are playing together I will end up with a flashy wardrobe anyways.
I wont grind for it as I would have to for other games. I can do it when I feel like it but for the omst part Ill prolly get the ones from the content i like doing.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
It still amazes me how many people simply just don't 'get it'. The game's all about options. About choice.
Heck, I'm still rocking the same armor setup I had in GW1 on my warrior. Personally, I found it to be one of the coolest looking combinations of armor I've found in the game. The funny thing is, most of the pieces I used actually weren't that hard to get. There were a few pieces that took some effort, and getting enough black dye was a bit of a pain. However I didn't need to grind for a single ecto, and I still get compliments from random players who are like 'woah.. where did you get that armor from?'.
It doesn't matter how a game is setup, there will always be a way in which to grind. The real question is if you are forced to. In this game you aren't, and I enjoy that. However, I could definitely see myself spending the time it takes to get some of the harder to get skins, sure. Much of this I wouldn't concider a grind, but there are some pieces that will require repeating the same task a bunch of times. It's still completely optional.
I can say I will not be one of those players grinding out mats for the rainbow though. I find it funny that it's in there, but have no interest in spending the time it takes to make it.
I obviously hate grinding and repeating the exact same content over and over after i have beaten it.. There is still no reason to grind in GW2, if that means repeating the exact same content over and over.
Gear drops either directly from a boss when you kill it first time.
Or there is some kind of ingame money / status rewarded that you can buy the gear with, this status can be gained on many different ways. So there is no grinding (as in doing the same stuff 100± times) required
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I wouldn't call it grinding for the mere fact that you can get new gear through crafting, dungeons, pvp, kama, gold and as far as I remember through a guild too(except if it was something else x_x ).
So not real grinding is involved since you gain enough points overtime by doing whats fun in a various ways in the game.
Still voted yes cause I'll definately play the content to get the gear I liked my character to wear.
What I like the most is that even when I do and look shiny wearing it, I know that it means I got me a special gear I want my character wearing and not a game breaking overpowered gear that would help me put down everyone in pvp only because I got it and others "couldn't".
Not sure if I would make it a grind but I'll definitely be getting it because I'm a completionist on my main. I tend to spread doing whatever stuff needed to acquire it out over time though instead of really grinding for it ad nauseum until I have it which makes it less of a grind for me if at all (depending on what's needed to acquire it).
Seeing i played to lv 30 with one of my character and felt almost no grind at all, ye i would like a long therm acheivement, i also love the "epic quest" concept in fantasy, wasn't always very well implemented in mmos though.
Also i'm not sure yet grind is involved into legendary, people are so damn stuck with all that grind crap, just like they are so damn obstructed with the trinity stuff. People think you absolutly need to have grind in a computer game, when in fact it's totally false, the fact game designers put grind in their games doesn't mean it's an absolute need.
I personally can easily see the legendary weapons as gathering mats naturally during your progression and playing, without having to "grind". In any case even if some kind of grind is involved, and since it will probably be the only grind in this game and be optional, i have nothing against it.
Of course not. What an incredible waste of time. Gw2 is famed for not having grind though; right?
Sometimes I get the feeling that you guys will say anything to justify your love for Gw2. I mean come on... spending hours of your time for gear that just looks different so you can show off or whatever... really... all of you would do that? I'm sure some will but I refuse to believe everyone above will. I'm sure some of you are just doing that "this is part of the game I like, so I must like everything about it" thing.
Its nice to be sure of something, isn't it?
I - for one - am sure that most of the posters above you REALLY don't mind a little grind. I am sure of that because many have given reasonable explanations for WHY they don't mind. You, on the other hand, have only given an unsubstantiated opinion about people you don't know. Refusal to believe something might get you some advancement in a religious sect or such, but it doesn't hold up in an argument. In fact, it makes people less likely to listen to a word you say. :P
... regarding myself ...
Since I am free to grind as much as I want for what I want from the high-level-get-go I'm okay with it.
What I hate is having to grind through one "tier of content" for stuff I don't want just so I can advance to the next higher tier of content because I want to grind something I can only get there. (f.e. WoW classic: "Grind" T1 to be able to grind T2)
Comments
i agree with you - some players prefer gear progression and theres plenty of other mmos to satisfy that desire
EQ2 fan sites
disclaimer: not a GW2 fan-boy, undecided about buying (though i feel the desire building :P )
anyways, in the 10 years i've been playing MMOs i realized that for me the only way to truly advance my character is in looks, to me power is defined by the look of my gear. i undesrstand that not everyone may agree with my view. people sometimes need to 'feel' a power increase rather than seeing it, i'm not like that. it is counter-productive for me because i am a PvP oriented player, and battles are tough when you are playing a warrior class and are wearing leather because it looks better. but hell, i feel that if i'm going to play a game, i want to play it in a way that makes me happy, and if in the end i still manage to be a prolific pvper, then power to me.
the 'leather' armor scenario above was in WoW, and things like that always kept happening, eventually i found warrior (and level) appropriate gear that made me look the way i desired to look. but this is in no way limited to themeparks. i remember in EvE i would roll a 'drake' notbecause i found it 'best' for the task (though it did well) but because it looked 'good' for the task.
i dont mind grinding as long as i'm not forced to do it in order to stay competitive. with grinding for cosmetic gear i can actually take my time, and in reality it wont be grinding, at least anymore. if i play the game and mess around and run a doungeon i like and am therefore rewarded with a set, why would i call that grinding? you should not.
just my opinion though.
well it's all about customization, isnt it? in a fantasy, most if not all of us strive to reflect some part of the "self" in our online personas. it could be humour, heroism, badassery, things we are or thing we wish to be. customization is everything, and it comes down to 1) playstyle (abilities, traits, class), and 2) aesthetics.
what pisses me off about most MMO's is they dont allow me to customize either of those! WoW and EVE may be great games, but the specs i enjoyed the most were never really viable in PVE or PVP (compared to others), and i never really looked the way i wanted to because i couldnt find the right armor pieces, or the ship i liked aesthetically did not coincide with my playstyle. i was in love with CoH for a number of years simply because it was the only MMo that actually allowed me to look the way i wanted, even if it didnt quite get my playstyle right.
this is really RP'ing 101 - allow players to customize themselves. but if youre satisfied by achieving higher gear stats, then you simply dont see the illusion of it. or you enjoy it.
Maybe in the first place "looks" does not interest you as much. Maybe you're just the type of player who values performance above aesthetic?
I'm not neccessarily saying that people willing to grind for consmetics(like me) values the opposite. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Sometimes I want to top the damage meters, and see big criticals. It also never hurts to make my character pretty (to my eyes at least).
Agreed.
I came into MMOs through GW1 but have been playing a gear-progression game for the last few months (SWTOR) while waiting for GW2 to release. Unlike some I've been enjoying The Old Republic, while not being blind to its faults.
I'm new enough to gear progression that I found it an interesting contrast, but I can see the grind getting old for me rather quickly. The main issue with gear-progression, as many have said, is that there is no other option. Much of the high-end content is gated until you acquire the right gear and stats to play it. Fair enough, you could argue that you earn your right to play the high end content, and this does give a sense of achievement, but when the grind starts to feel like a second job, you start to question why you are playing the game. And when you are in the end-game grind, there isn't anything else to do.
In contrast, with a skill-progression game like GW1 and GW2, the gameplay progression comes through finding optimum builds using skills and attributes (traits in GW2) and learning how to use them well. In GW2 I can see weapon swapping and fine tuning of traits becoming very important, as well as selection of the utility skills. There was so much depth to this in GW1 and I am sure there will be in GW2. Other achievements such as titles and acquisition of rare items provide goals to aim for and a similar sense of accomplishment, but they are entirely optional. You choose which mountains you want to climb and when. In the meantime you can take part in any content the game has to offer, and your success or failure depends on your choice of build and your ability to play it well.
I can see that for someone used to the clearly defined tiers of gear-progression, this may seem rather vague. Skill progression can have its own frustrations too: when you find yourself up against the limits of your own talent or reflexes there is nowhere to hide. Practising your skills, dodging and kiting etc can be its own kind of grind, and much as I loved GW1, it did have its fair share of elitists too.
Maybe we just need to recognise our own preferred flavour of grind and pick our games accordingly.
Or what?
like this?
Grinding isn't what you think it is. Grinding is doing the same task repeatedly in one session. Ex. Killing 1000 boars in a row. Repeating content at your own pace isn't considered grinding. It's considered a goal.
Grinding is is gringing wether it's killing 100 bears or doing the same wvw or pvp or pve to get gear. NOw with that said getting gear that serves no purpose other then looks will not be enough to keep people around for long endgame look at all the the faill mmos that can't hack it and they have upgrades for grinding i have a hard time beliving half the yes answers for this poll or they don't know what end game is in guild wars 2 cause u don't get better gear u get cosmetic items which is lame and won't keep anyone around for long.
I loved the way this works in GW1, it really did give prestige to the player, and it required some hard work. Anet also tried to nerf every fast gold farming by tweaking monster UI and altering farm build skills. This led the game to be even more exciting. Lots of people theorycrafted with awesome builds and farming zones. It was so fun grinding that way because you almost always forced to think and do something new. Beside from that dungeons were really challenging and fun.
If they can achieve this with GW2 at high lvl content as well, it is going to be legandary....wait for it...dary.
Yes, and I've done it in even in Wow (the aforementioned grinding for "statistical bonuses" game), though I often worked hardest for mounts which provided no benefit.
I think I did Settek Halls heroic mode at least 100 times on two toons to get the Raven Lord mount. I also farmed substantially to gain enough gold and get the mats, and upgraded my crafting to personally make and own the Sands of Time Dragon -elixir mount (I've been away far too long to remember the correct name) at the beginning of Cataclysm
So yes, if it's shiny and I like it's peculiar shade of shinyness, then you will see me going for it.
My Guild Wars 2 Blog can be found here: Divinity's Reach
Actually I like more that idea after playing other grind games, k is about the same thing BUT the problem with the other system is that you are limited to specific instances like the DS in WoW (which i hate).. With GW2 system you have all the game as viable content, you can do whatever dungeon, DE, etc you want doesn't matter the level and still a challenge... No need to grind only that end game dungeon that you don't like.
I probably will grind for the things I really want but then again maybe I won't. It is cosmetic so to me it means nothing. Maybe sometime I don't know.
One thing I do know is women will probably love going and getting all this cosmetic stuff. My wife will love this aspect hah. Guess if we are playing together I will end up with a flashy wardrobe anyways.
Ive always preferred performance over looks, but I know a ton of players do and will gladly grind for new looks.
Its just one of the reasons cash shops do so well.
I wont grind for it as I would have to for other games. I can do it when I feel like it but for the omst part Ill prolly get the ones from the content i like doing.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
It still amazes me how many people simply just don't 'get it'. The game's all about options. About choice.
Heck, I'm still rocking the same armor setup I had in GW1 on my warrior. Personally, I found it to be one of the coolest looking combinations of armor I've found in the game. The funny thing is, most of the pieces I used actually weren't that hard to get. There were a few pieces that took some effort, and getting enough black dye was a bit of a pain. However I didn't need to grind for a single ecto, and I still get compliments from random players who are like 'woah.. where did you get that armor from?'.
It doesn't matter how a game is setup, there will always be a way in which to grind. The real question is if you are forced to. In this game you aren't, and I enjoy that. However, I could definitely see myself spending the time it takes to get some of the harder to get skins, sure. Much of this I wouldn't concider a grind, but there are some pieces that will require repeating the same task a bunch of times. It's still completely optional.
I can say I will not be one of those players grinding out mats for the rainbow though. I find it funny that it's in there, but have no interest in spending the time it takes to make it.
I obviously hate grinding and repeating the exact same content over and over after i have beaten it.. There is still no reason to grind in GW2, if that means repeating the exact same content over and over.
Gear drops either directly from a boss when you kill it first time.
Or there is some kind of ingame money / status rewarded that you can buy the gear with, this status can be gained on many different ways. So there is no grinding (as in doing the same stuff 100± times) required
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I wouldn't call it grinding for the mere fact that you can get new gear through crafting, dungeons, pvp, kama, gold and as far as I remember through a guild too(except if it was something else x_x ).
So not real grinding is involved since you gain enough points overtime by doing whats fun in a various ways in the game.
Still voted yes cause I'll definately play the content to get the gear I liked my character to wear.
What I like the most is that even when I do and look shiny wearing it, I know that it means I got me a special gear I want my character wearing and not a game breaking overpowered gear that would help me put down everyone in pvp only because I got it and others "couldn't".
You means armors like this one?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Heavy_armor_02_concept_art.jpg
or this one?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/7/78/Light_armor_05_concept_art.jpg
or this one?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/7/76/Light_armor_02_concept_art.jpg
I'm aiming for the third one for my necro for sure. ^_^
No, I wouldn't grind for any type of gear. I don't have that time to waste.
Yes I will.
In GW1 this was an important thing to do for me. Allways trying to get the awesome sets and best combos to make my monk look awesome.
Not sure if I would make it a grind but I'll definitely be getting it because I'm a completionist on my main. I tend to spread doing whatever stuff needed to acquire it out over time though instead of really grinding for it ad nauseum until I have it which makes it less of a grind for me if at all (depending on what's needed to acquire it).
Seeing i played to lv 30 with one of my character and felt almost no grind at all, ye i would like a long therm acheivement, i also love the "epic quest" concept in fantasy, wasn't always very well implemented in mmos though.
Also i'm not sure yet grind is involved into legendary, people are so damn stuck with all that grind crap, just like they are so damn obstructed with the trinity stuff. People think you absolutly need to have grind in a computer game, when in fact it's totally false, the fact game designers put grind in their games doesn't mean it's an absolute need.
I personally can easily see the legendary weapons as gathering mats naturally during your progression and playing, without having to "grind". In any case even if some kind of grind is involved, and since it will probably be the only grind in this game and be optional, i have nothing against it.
Its nice to be sure of something, isn't it?
I - for one - am sure that most of the posters above you REALLY don't mind a little grind. I am sure of that because many have given reasonable explanations for WHY they don't mind. You, on the other hand, have only given an unsubstantiated opinion about people you don't know. Refusal to believe something might get you some advancement in a religious sect or such, but it doesn't hold up in an argument. In fact, it makes people less likely to listen to a word you say. :P
... regarding myself ...
Since I am free to grind as much as I want for what I want from the high-level-get-go I'm okay with it.
What I hate is having to grind through one "tier of content" for stuff I don't want just so I can advance to the next higher tier of content because I want to grind something I can only get there. (f.e. WoW classic: "Grind" T1 to be able to grind T2)