So you can never ever in the whole existence of time ever beat a competent player? never? even once? even just a little?
I love how you use linguistics to create closed systems and thus have a "solid" argument... And as to your last comment, you obviously didnt read what I said... "I'm starting to wonder". Not making any stereotypes, but rather wondering if people have played the game... have you?
P.S. try staying away from insulting people, it makes you look childish
Yawn, I am gonna stop this argument here because you can't seem to find the difference between a competent player and guy who just jumped into PvP for the first time and gets himself owned with his wife at his side. So you won that 2v1... but a competent group of players you cannot.
I have beaten tons of competent players 1v1. I promise you with the downed mechanic that you will not beat competent players at anything more than a 1v1.
You misunderstand me orsonstfu... I have nothing against you. But what I do have an issue with is the fact that you define a competent player as someone who cannot be defeated based on the situation that you created; that's too easy to do. One of the things that I like about GW2 is that even competent players have to work at it. If yo'ure running by yourself, in my opinion, you're already doing something wrong. You can play solo and prob win a few fights solo, but if you're using strategy you'll stick with other players (at least with another one) in order to increase your chances of winning.
Again I ask, have you played GW2? I'm not trying to call you out, just trying to, I guess in a way, collect information on the people who hold a speicific opinion. I guess you could say either way I would not have any way to prove otherwise, but I'll take your word for it.
Again you're missing the point completely (showing my colors? You haven't played WoW?) I'm gonna focus on 4) and tell you it is not about stats but about FUN. Killing someone is fun. Getting killed (especially after a good fight) isn't fun but at least it isn't frustrating(it is over quickly. you die and then respawn). Killing, stomping, dying, getting stomped, neither of those is fun in gw2 and they are all frustrating (some more, some less). The downed state just slows the game. I can see how casual players might like it though. It makes them feel safe (especially when they stick with their teammates)
Basically you like to play rogue classes, that only dish a bunch of damage and cannot do anything but jump in someone and kill him in 1-2 seconds.
Yeah, sPvP and WvW don't work like that nor reward that play style.
Although you can use that playstyle to harrass and slow the enemy both in sPvP and WvW, just not get kills.
Killing someone and finishing them by dropping a cow or a deer on them is AWESOME FUN!
Downing someone in 1 sec and then not be able to finish them because the build is limited and didn't take in account downed mechanic and team mates must make someone feel very sily.
You got me here. I like to play rogue classes, harass, hit and run, scout, take on multiple enemies, help my team by soloing. And gw2 doesn't seem to allow that playstyle. In fact GW2 seems to force us to play a certain way to have a chance in PvP (just like WoW). I won't be surprised if each class has 1-2 viable builds in PvP a month or two after launch.
Have you played GW2? any of the betas and/or the stress tests?
All 3 BWEs and almost all stress tests(I missed one because of a EURO2012 semifinal). Which doesn't mean I'm not still a newbie with less than 7-8 days played (and so are you)
nice! I've played all BWEs and all stress tests. Btw, which team were you chearing for? I'm originally from Spain so the Euro 2012 ended quite well for me :-)
this is not a competition to see who has logged more hours, I was just curious to see who all, who are against the downed mechanic, has actually played the game.... just curious more than anything.
I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.
I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top. With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.
Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??
You could beat 2 players. so what? that doesn't prove anything. When the system starts matching you with players of similar skill level you will not be able to do this.
Course you can, as long as you yourself are "competent". Not exactly the hardest subject to grasp mate. System matches you up with similarly ranked servers to keep everything relatively competitive in WvWvW. Which, of course, means you need to adapt as you are fighting them.
Idiot player will keep going into battles with the same strategy they've been using from the beginning.
Smart players will change skills/equipment as needed.
I've never seen FPS PvPers complain about this. Why are MMORPG PvPers? I'd like to find out what some pro pvp guilds have to say on the subject.
Not 100% sure since i havnt played CoD since the 2nd one but im pretty sure they removed the downed state perk because of so many people bitching about it. I see the same outcome with this... atleast i hope
In my opinion... it's just unnecessary. One thing I loved about WoW were the death animations, you don't get the same satisfaction when people drop in GW2.
For those that are saying it's tedious to kill someone a 2nd time:
Fling the person/target off a cliff. If they die via fall damage as the final blow, they do not go into a down state, they just stay down. So take advantage of cliffs, walls, and high points.
In one instance I had just finished a player and had low health myself. Someone else came over and knocked the remainder of my health down, but I struggled in the downed state, creating an illusion of myself to confuse him (I was playing a mesmer). This saved me enough time for a Guardian ally to come along and to knock the player backwards so he couldnt finish me. I managed to heal myself up while the player was occupied and finished him off.
If the mechanic didn't exist the other player would have simply gotten an easy kill from an already wounded player, long before I got any assistance.
In WOW I moved from several different servers (all pvp servers; warsong, laughing skull, shattered halls, tichondrious, and back to shattered halls)... I played allance cause in most servers the horde outnumbered alliance and I saw it as a challenge.
In GW2 I played mostlly WVW and some SPVP, though I confess I enjoyed WVW much more. I played as a charr ele from BWE1 to BWE2 (and the tress tests). In BWE3 I played as an asura ele. I'm very aggressive and love to pick fights (think william wallas).
In most fights I either died cuase I picked a fight I couldnt win, or I died right after stomping on an enemy player while surrounded by enemy players, or I lived after being rezed or lived cause I was lucky (and had some skill) in staying alive.
I love pvp... more than anything I love having epic (close) fights against other players. The ultimate combat is not against an AI but against another player :-)
In my opinion... it's just unnecessary. One thing I loved about WoW were the death animations, you don't get the same satisfaction when people drop in GW2.
Meh...only death animations I got a kick out of were gnomes and dwarves.
As for GW2? Can't say the Toyota "Oh what a feeling" does much for me either. Coolest were definitely the fatalaties in AoC. Then again GW2 is going for a teen rating so...
Would be nice if there were some varied ones. Really though that isn't what does it for me far as gameplay goes.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I like to play rogue classes, harass, hit and run, scout, take on multiple enemies, help my team by soloing. And gw2 doesn't seem to allow that playstyle. In fact GW2 seems to force us to play a certain way to have a chance in PvP (just like WoW). I won't be surprised if each class has 1-2 viable builds in PvP a month or two after launch.
if GW2 tuning is anything like GW1,
ANET will be balancing skills every 4-6 weeks to reduce "flavor of the month" builds
Course you can, as long as you yourself are "competent". Not exactly the hardest subject to grasp mate. System matches you up with similarly ranked servers to keep everything relatively competitive in WvWvW. Which, of course, means you need to adapt as you are fighting them.
Idiot player will keep going into battles with the same strategy they've been using from the beginning.
Smart players will change skills/equipment as needed.
I love it how they created a supposedly undefeatable lvl of a player....
The "competent" player!! undefeatable in battle and unusurpable in romance!! the "competent" player is the man all men envy and all women want, or the woman all women envy and all men want!! the "competent" player is the bestest of the bestest, and no one can best him (or her)!!
In WOW I moved from several different servers (all pvp servers; warsong, laughing skull, shattered halls, tichondrious, and back to shattered halls)... I played allance cause in most servers the horde outnumbered alliance and I saw it as a challenge.
In GW2 I played mostlly WVW and some SPVP, though I confess I enjoyed WVW much more. I played as a charr ele from BWE1 to BWE2 (and the tress tests). In BWE3 I played as an asura ele. I'm very aggressive and love to pick fights (think william wallas).
In most fights I either died cuase I picked a fight I couldnt win, or I died right after stomping on an enemy player while surrounded by enemy players, or I lived after being rezed or lived cause I was lucky (and had some skill) in staying alive.
I love pvp... more than anything I love having epic (close) fights against other players. The ultimate combat is not against an AI but against another player :-)
have you PvP'ed in other games besides WoW?
btw since you like being outnumbered I honestly don't see how you can like the downed mechanic.
In WOW I moved from several different servers (all pvp servers; warsong, laughing skull, shattered halls, tichondrious, and back to shattered halls)... I played allance cause in most servers the horde outnumbered alliance and I saw it as a challenge.
In GW2 I played mostlly WVW and some SPVP, though I confess I enjoyed WVW much more. I played as a charr ele from BWE1 to BWE2 (and the tress tests). In BWE3 I played as an asura ele. I'm very aggressive and love to pick fights (think william wallas).
In most fights I either died cuase I picked a fight I couldnt win, or I died right after stomping on an enemy player while surrounded by enemy players, or I lived after being rezed or lived cause I was lucky (and had some skill) in staying alive.
I love pvp... more than anything I love having epic (close) fights against other players. The ultimate combat is not against an AI but against another player :-)
have you PvP'ed in other games besides WoW?
btw since you like being outnumbered I honestly don't see how you can like the downed mechanic.
My mmo history:
ROSE Online - GW1 - WOW - AoC/WAR/Aion/FFXI/FFXIV/FlyFF - WOW - GW2 (I played all the Battlefield and CoD FPS's).
It's not that I like to die and lose, but if its a good fight, I don't mind. I do enjoy the challenge of being the underdog, cause it makes victory ever so much sweeter!
I love the downed mechanic cause I've been able to rally many times; I've also been stomped countless times. In WOW I always got in trouble cause I wanted to very aggressive with my gnome mage (had to pvp in my pally in order to satisfy my pvp aggressiveness). In GW2 I can role whichever toon I want to and be as aggressive as I like... within reason of course.
Yes, I've pvp'd in ROSE, GW1, WOW, Aion, FlyFF and in GW2.
P.S. Edit: I also played Rift, TERA and SWTOR (I cancelled shortly after playing them).
Its amusing that most of the people chose with and i dont understand them at all. I didint play the game, but in my opinion that down mechanics is just annoying. You have to kill your enemy and jump on it to finish the job? bullcrap. It would be ok if he couldnt cast anything. Most annoying place for pvpers will be WvW when in pvp you kill the enemy and that enemy kills random monster to get up and fight again. I would say No thank you ...
This reminds me of when President Obama made a comment about that black teacher being arrested without knowing any of the details of the situation...
If you haven't played the game and don't know what its like to down players or be downed by a player, how can you say that somethig is annoying or not. I'm not saying you can't opine without personal experience, and I appreciate it that you prefaced your comment with the clarification that you had not played the game... but still... I'm amazed at people's ability to know things without experiencing them. Wouldn't mind learning that ability, then I probably could have avoided years and years of treadmill experience in WOW.
Yes i didnt experiance it myself but i got information from other sources. Like gameplay videos, articles and stuff like that. And the thing is i am not wrong. with the example i gave you. This acctually very likely it will happen alot in WvW
How can an opinion be wrong or right? that's why it's an opinion, its subjective... this is obviously the opinions of people vs another set of opinions held by other people. Never did I say anyone is wrong, what I am saying though is that I disagree with other people's opinions. As to you not being wrong, you are wrong about that. In order to avoid the enemy from rallying, all you have to do is stomp on him, done deal! If you're unable to stomp on him for any reason, well... that's wvw for you! Got to be smart with regards to the fights you pick. That's the unpredictable nature of combat (including the downed state) in wvw! (notice the unpredictable part!)
Again, becuase you never played the game, your argument holds very little weight. You can speak of things that others have experienced, true enough, but people would be more willing to listen to you if you have experienced the game.
More or less i dont care. Just staded an fact and example. And gave my opinion that its annoying atleast for me.
I know it'll be uncommon, but I want to see a fight occur in WvWvW where a cluster of people somehow all get downed (from both enemy sides) in close range of each other and are struggling to finish each other off
the only downside i can see to it would be a very specific scenario where it is an extremely close fight. meaning when one player is downed, the other is arround 1-5% health with the possibility that the downed player could kill them before they can get a finishing blow on them. thus reviving the downed player with a big chunk of health and allowing them to finish off the other player who would have been the victor if there was no downed state.
other than that, i like the downed state as a whole across all aspects of the game.
See this is why im looking forward to WoW-MoP, not becuase im gonna play it (I wouldn't touch it with a set of pliers) but because it would atleast temporarily weed out people like these
Well you're wrong. I haven't played WoW since 2008 or so and don't plan on buying MoP. But still at its current state WoW pvp is slightly better.
This thread should have ended right here.
If OP is completely incapable of understanding GW2 PvP and why it is > WoW PvP this thread is 100% pointless.
Gear grind, killing people in a GCD or two, perma-stealth classes, gear grind, gear grind, pointless stat tracking (just to grind more gear) etc. etc.
One thing about the downed mechanic that maybe isn't considered much is the fact that you can actually use the fact that a downed player can be helped to your advantage. I've actually killed one or two people because they got too close to our keep while trying to rez a downed ally .
the only downside i can see to it would be a very specific scenario where it is an extremely close fight. meaning when one player is downed, the other is arround 1-5% health with the possibility that the downed player could kill them before they can get a finishing blow on them. thus reviving the downed player with a big chunk of health and allowing them to finish off the other player who would have been the victor if there was no downed state.
other than that, i like the downed state as a whole across all aspects of the game.
Brinign the other guy to downed state does not Rally you. You have to fully kill him. So in your scenario the player with 5% hp would still have that 5% hp advantage over the already downed player. The only way you can make it work is if you are warrior, manage to interrupt the Finish move with number 3 (which is knockdown throw) and then use Vengeance which bring you out of downed for a few moments and then kills you fully once the buff fades (no 2nd downed state)
Comments
You misunderstand me orsonstfu... I have nothing against you. But what I do have an issue with is the fact that you define a competent player as someone who cannot be defeated based on the situation that you created; that's too easy to do. One of the things that I like about GW2 is that even competent players have to work at it. If yo'ure running by yourself, in my opinion, you're already doing something wrong. You can play solo and prob win a few fights solo, but if you're using strategy you'll stick with other players (at least with another one) in order to increase your chances of winning.
Again I ask, have you played GW2? I'm not trying to call you out, just trying to, I guess in a way, collect information on the people who hold a speicific opinion. I guess you could say either way I would not have any way to prove otherwise, but I'll take your word for it.
nice! I've played all BWEs and all stress tests. Btw, which team were you chearing for? I'm originally from Spain so the Euro 2012 ended quite well for me :-)
this is not a competition to see who has logged more hours, I was just curious to see who all, who are against the downed mechanic, has actually played the game.... just curious more than anything.
Course you can, as long as you yourself are "competent". Not exactly the hardest subject to grasp mate. System matches you up with similarly ranked servers to keep everything relatively competitive in WvWvW. Which, of course, means you need to adapt as you are fighting them.
Idiot player will keep going into battles with the same strategy they've been using from the beginning.
Smart players will change skills/equipment as needed.
seems like its still in COD
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Chance
EQ2 fan sites
In my opinion... it's just unnecessary. One thing I loved about WoW were the death animations, you don't get the same satisfaction when people drop in GW2.
For those that are saying it's tedious to kill someone a 2nd time:
Fling the person/target off a cliff. If they die via fall damage as the final blow, they do not go into a down state, they just stay down. So take advantage of cliffs, walls, and high points.
The problem isn't that you can res another player (that's actually a good thing), it's that when downed a player can be annoying as shit.
You HAVE to stomp them, they get too much life when downed.
And most classes have a knockback or teleport preventing so.
I love it. It led to so many interesting fights.
In one instance I had just finished a player and had low health myself. Someone else came over and knocked the remainder of my health down, but I struggled in the downed state, creating an illusion of myself to confuse him (I was playing a mesmer). This saved me enough time for a Guardian ally to come along and to knock the player backwards so he couldnt finish me. I managed to heal myself up while the player was occupied and finished him off.
If the mechanic didn't exist the other player would have simply gotten an easy kill from an already wounded player, long before I got any assistance.
Oh yes! I'm a pvper in and out.
In WOW I moved from several different servers (all pvp servers; warsong, laughing skull, shattered halls, tichondrious, and back to shattered halls)... I played allance cause in most servers the horde outnumbered alliance and I saw it as a challenge.
In GW2 I played mostlly WVW and some SPVP, though I confess I enjoyed WVW much more. I played as a charr ele from BWE1 to BWE2 (and the tress tests). In BWE3 I played as an asura ele. I'm very aggressive and love to pick fights (think william wallas).
In most fights I either died cuase I picked a fight I couldnt win, or I died right after stomping on an enemy player while surrounded by enemy players, or I lived after being rezed or lived cause I was lucky (and had some skill) in staying alive.
I love pvp... more than anything I love having epic (close) fights against other players. The ultimate combat is not against an AI but against another player :-)
Meh...only death animations I got a kick out of were gnomes and dwarves.
As for GW2? Can't say the Toyota "Oh what a feeling" does much for me either. Coolest were definitely the fatalaties in AoC. Then again GW2 is going for a teen rating so...
Would be nice if there were some varied ones. Really though that isn't what does it for me far as gameplay goes.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
if GW2 tuning is anything like GW1,
ANET will be balancing skills every 4-6 weeks to reduce "flavor of the month" builds
EQ2 fan sites
I love it how they created a supposedly undefeatable lvl of a player....
The "competent" player!! undefeatable in battle and unusurpable in romance!! the "competent" player is the man all men envy and all women want, or the woman all women envy and all men want!! the "competent" player is the bestest of the bestest, and no one can best him (or her)!!
Predictable as in you just die all the time, rather than die all the time but occasionally kill some first?
Its the predictability of the unpredictable which he finds predictable.
have you PvP'ed in other games besides WoW?
btw since you like being outnumbered I honestly don't see how you can like the downed mechanic.
my review of GW2
My mmo history:
ROSE Online - GW1 - WOW - AoC/WAR/Aion/FFXI/FFXIV/FlyFF - WOW - GW2 (I played all the Battlefield and CoD FPS's).
It's not that I like to die and lose, but if its a good fight, I don't mind. I do enjoy the challenge of being the underdog, cause it makes victory ever so much sweeter!
I love the downed mechanic cause I've been able to rally many times; I've also been stomped countless times. In WOW I always got in trouble cause I wanted to very aggressive with my gnome mage (had to pvp in my pally in order to satisfy my pvp aggressiveness). In GW2 I can role whichever toon I want to and be as aggressive as I like... within reason of course.
Yes, I've pvp'd in ROSE, GW1, WOW, Aion, FlyFF and in GW2.
P.S. Edit: I also played Rift, TERA and SWTOR (I cancelled shortly after playing them).
just testing to see if this thread was closed or locked
Edit: ok good, still open :-)
More or less i dont care. Just staded an fact and example. And gave my opinion that its annoying atleast for me.
I know it'll be uncommon, but I want to see a fight occur in WvWvW where a cluster of people somehow all get downed (from both enemy sides) in close range of each other and are struggling to finish each other off
Fair enough.
the only downside i can see to it would be a very specific scenario where it is an extremely close fight. meaning when one player is downed, the other is arround 1-5% health with the possibility that the downed player could kill them before they can get a finishing blow on them. thus reviving the downed player with a big chunk of health and allowing them to finish off the other player who would have been the victor if there was no downed state.
other than that, i like the downed state as a whole across all aspects of the game.
out to watch the batman movie with my wife... see ya'll later! I'll respond to anyone who commented on something I said as soon as I can...
cheers!
This thread should have ended right here.
If OP is completely incapable of understanding GW2 PvP and why it is > WoW PvP this thread is 100% pointless.
Gear grind, killing people in a GCD or two, perma-stealth classes, gear grind, gear grind, pointless stat tracking (just to grind more gear) etc. etc.
One thing about the downed mechanic that maybe isn't considered much is the fact that you can actually use the fact that a downed player can be helped to your advantage. I've actually killed one or two people because they got too close to our keep while trying to rez a downed ally
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Brinign the other guy to downed state does not Rally you. You have to fully kill him. So in your scenario the player with 5% hp would still have that 5% hp advantage over the already downed player. The only way you can make it work is if you are warrior, manage to interrupt the Finish move with number 3 (which is knockdown throw) and then use Vengeance which bring you out of downed for a few moments and then kills you fully once the buff fades (no 2nd downed state)