Wait what? SWTOR underperformed because 2.4 million lazy, entitled people bought intending to pay box cost and a $15 a month subscription? Sounds like the "stabbed in the back" mentality I mentioned in another thread.
Originally posted by primedgamer Hey you dont have to get defensive i was just asking why post the same thing on two didn't posts. Unfortunately swtor or anyother mmo will not get better or be the next big mmo because of todays lazy gamers and gamers who feel the are entitled to everything for free are the reason for these half made mmos.
SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
F2p gamers out number those who will pay 6 to 1 right now. So yes swtor and every game from now on has to adapt to these lazy gamers. Swtor was expensive due to the voice acting which is the best of an mmo. They did screw up in other areas but now they have to adapt. I would say swtor is in the same boat as any company reducing cost due to a competition, cost and the change of the mmo community. The change i am referring to is the laziness and entitlement this new generation has.
SWTOR is not exactly F2P in many peoples eyes, but a freemium extended trial 1-50, which will be even more-so highlighted when the level cap goes to 55 for non-F2P'ers.
Anyways, the number of "MMO'ers" has been on the rise, but the number of people paying a subscription fee hasn't changed much over the last several years. 6.1 million activ subscribers in 2007, 6.7 million active subscribers in 2012 (Western region). Saying all gamers are lazy isn't exactly true. My UI is messed up but here is the link: http://www.superdataresearch.com/case-study-does-it-pay-to-switch-to-free-to-play/
I didnt say all gamers are lazy. I said the majority as your stat shows moatmost newer mmo players are f2p. How can we expect these game to produce a quality product when they know most want it for free becauae they feel they are entitled to get it free.
Originally posted by primedgamer Hey you dont have to get defensive i was just asking why post the same thing on two didn't posts. Unfortunately swtor or anyother mmo will not get better or be the next big mmo because of todays lazy gamers and gamers who feel the are entitled to everything for free are the reason for these half made mmos.
SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
F2p gamers out number those who will pay 6 to 1 right now. So yes swtor and every game from now on has to adapt to these lazy gamers. Swtor was expensive due to the voice acting which is the best of an mmo. They did screw up in other areas but now they have to adapt. I would say swtor is in the same boat as any company reducing cost due to a competition, cost and the change of the mmo community. The change i am referring to is the laziness and entitlement this new generation has.
SWTOR is not exactly F2P in many peoples eyes, but a freemium extended trial 1-50, which will be even more-so highlighted when the level cap goes to 55 for non-F2P'ers. Anyways, the number of "MMO'ers" has been on the rise, but the number of people paying a subscription fee hasn't changed much over the last several years. 6.1 million active subscribers in 2007, 6.7 million active subscribers in 2012 (Western region). Saying all gamers are lazy isn't exactly true. My UI is messed up but here is the link: http://www.superdataresearch.com/case-study-does-it-pay-to-switch-to-free-to-play/
I didnt say all gamers are lazy. I said the majority as your stat shows most newer mmo players are f2p. How can we expect these game to produce a quality product when they know most want it for free can they feel they are entitled to get it free.
There are plenty of F2P games that help draw conclusions about the success of F2P over subscriptions. Perfect World and Ragnarok Online for instance had something like 50-60 million accounts (not all active though). Wizard 101 is doing good too. But these aren't games I'm going to play.
Mobile F2P games are hot too, but not my cup of tea.
This can go back to what you were saying about newer MMO players, but to me if a game is incredibly fun it doesn't matter what the payment model is.
Fun? I'll subscribe or use their F2P cashshop .. not fun? I won't subscribe or I won't use their cashshop. I realize this is anecdotal, but just saying that F2P isn't always the best scheme, for developers, or for players, in the long run. It's going to depend of what sort of experience they want .. or expect (frequent content updates? help / support? Niche game ..)
You're putting the cart before the horse. The game launched P2P with no intention of going FTP. Blaming FTP players for a P2P game underperforming is nonsense.
Though the topic drifted a bit, it's at least a good example of a thread that would have already been closed on the official forums, even though it's not hostile, yet still constructive =D
Does anyone remember when compuserve and AOL charged 15 bucks a month? When you had to buy actual CDs? As soon as one person modifies the price structure down, it will be expected. I don't think you can criminalize the consumer for this.
F2P has begun. I don't think there will be any stopping it now. You may as well adapt.
Originally posted by Karteli Though the topic drifted a bit, it's at least a good example of a thread that would have already been closed on the official forums, even though it's not hostile, yet still constructive =D
The fact that the thread's title is "Forum Rules Update" immediately followed by [mod edit] is delicious irony.
Originally posted by Ppiper their forums, their rules. Simple solution, don't visit there.
Expanding on this: Their forums, their rules, their jobs, all paid with your money, make em sweat a little when their earnings start dropping.
Why would you want their earnings to drop. Personally, I'd like to see them make more money, and make more games. It's not up to you to decide. I can't go bashing Blizzard because of my beliefs that D3 was the worst outdated game to come out, and they wasted my money. I stay quiet, and wish them well, as some people happen to like it.
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
No they don't as long as they can recoup their initial investment over the years. And if EA had no chance of doing that SWTOR would be shut down by now. EA doesn't give a damn about fan base and would shut the game down rather than incur losses. This is EA we are talking about.
gThey said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
I have been hearing that SWTOR will be dead in 6 months since release. So i see that now doom and gloom has been extended to 2013 and beyond.
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
How muchh profit they are making is something only EA knows. Rest of us can only speculate. Just some time ago you and others were saying that SWTOR will never have any content update. Who knows what future holds? people who are extremely negative about SWTOR and want to see it burned to ground will always try to put a negative spin on every good news.
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
I really don't want to get into STO discussion with you. I think we already discussed about this on length in another topic. As far trion goes there has been plenty of doom and gloom about Rift on these forums (not surprised though). Every MMO ahs its share of obsessed haters. You think people have not been ripping Trion apart and makign predictions about it going F2P soon?
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
No that is all you have been saying over and over again. That SWTOR will shut down. You have been saying that since release and i doubt you will stop any time soon. According to you now SWTOR might not make past 2013. But what you forget is thatw e are dealing with EA here. Not SOE. And EA unlike SOE doesn't believe in escalating things if they have no profit to make. So one cna wonder why SWTOR is still alive and kicking? You think EA gives a damn about its fan base?
I do not have a personal axe to grind with Bioware or EA (who are the same thing). I liked Bioware I liked every game they made. SWTOR is what it is, and I just say what it is, It is one side of things.
It's just not me but anyone who is regular enough on these forums or SWTOR section would have a very hard time to believe that you don't have a personal axe to grind.
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
No they don't as long as they can recoup their initial investment over the years. And if EA had no chance of doing that SWTOR would be shut down by now. EA doesn't give a damn about fan base and would shut the game down rather than incur losses. This is EA we are talking about.
gThey said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
I have been hearing that SWTOR will be dead in 6 months since release. So i see that now doom and gloom has been extended to 2013 and beyond.
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
How muchh profit they are making is something only EA knows. Rest of us can only speculate. Just some time ago you and others were saying that SWTOR will never have any content update. Who knows what future holds? people who are extremely negative about SWTOR and want to see it burned to ground will always try to put a negative spin on every good news.
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
I really don't want to get into STO discussion with you. I think we already discussed about this on length in another topic. As far trion goes there has been plenty of doom and gloom about Rift on these forums (not surprised though). Every MMO ahs its share of obsessed haters. You think people have not been ripping Trion apart and makign predictions about it going F2P soon?
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
No that is all you have been saying over and over again. That SWTOR will shut down. You have been saying that since release and i doubt you will stop any time soon. According to you now SWTOR might not make past 2013. But what you forget is thatw e are dealing with EA here. Not SOE. And EA unlike SOE doesn't believe in escalating things if they have no profit to make. So one cna wonder why SWTOR is still alive and kicking? You think EA gives a damn about its fan base?
I do not have a personal axe to grind with Bioware or EA (who are the same thing). I liked Bioware I liked every game they made. SWTOR is what it is, and I just say what it is, It is one side of things.
It's just not me but anyone who is regular enough on these forums or SWTOR section would have a very hard time to believe that you don't have a personal axe to grind.
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
I do not have an axe to grind, I just say how I see it. eg The last known information from EA states that they need 500K subs, and was said before the game launched and was said again on 1st Aug after the layoff. What I say is said with a lot of logical thought put into it, and not just wild fleeting accusations of hate. You say that the 500K may not matter any more and it may well be true, but there is ZERO evidence to back that up. There is evidence and fact being stated from EA that need 500K subs to break even.
All that seems to be happening here, is people seem to have an axe to grind with me, for just stating the truth and the way things are from FACTS as stated by EA and stuff that has actually happened. Because what I say is all feasible people including yourself respond to defend and just want to dismiss all the bad stuff going on, and like to live in fairy land where SWTOR is still P2P, still has 2 million subs, no staff have been dismissed, servers are still over 200 and FULL, the Doctors are still with Bioware, and Makeb was launched in November, and waiting on more new content within the next few months as well etc and bury their head back in the sand.
EA are more likely to shut down a game than SOE. SWG got shut down because of LA. If SOE had full control then SWG would not have shut down. The thing that changes thngs now is that Disney have control, and they may not be so greedy with the IP fee. SWTOR is still ticking along right now because with F2P it is good enough for them, but will it be good enough come later in the year.? I do not know where you got me saying it would be dead in 6 months, you are just making things up now, as I have never said that. I have always said I do not see it surviving past 2013.
Complaing about me complaining about the name generator? What, so you like broken games? What is the harm in mentioing it to try and get fixed? If they were able to fix it then it would make things better. No wonder the game remains crap, any negativity just gets swept under the rug and does not get dealt with. I have no regrets suggesting things to make the game better like the problem I had with Rnadom Name Generator and I will not be bullied from posting such threads. Other MMOs do DO the random name generators BETTER.
If I posted a thread complianing about load times, then that would be taking things to the extreme, as they are part of the game and can not be helped, and even STO is worse.
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
No they don't as long as they can recoup their initial investment over the years. And if EA had no chance of doing that SWTOR would be shut down by now. EA doesn't give a damn about fan base and would shut the game down rather than incur losses. This is EA we are talking about.
gThey said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
I have been hearing that SWTOR will be dead in 6 months since release. So i see that now doom and gloom has been extended to 2013 and beyond.
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
How muchh profit they are making is something only EA knows. Rest of us can only speculate. Just some time ago you and others were saying that SWTOR will never have any content update. Who knows what future holds? people who are extremely negative about SWTOR and want to see it burned to ground will always try to put a negative spin on every good news.
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
I really don't want to get into STO discussion with you. I think we already discussed about this on length in another topic. As far trion goes there has been plenty of doom and gloom about Rift on these forums (not surprised though). Every MMO ahs its share of obsessed haters. You think people have not been ripping Trion apart and makign predictions about it going F2P soon?
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
No that is all you have been saying over and over again. That SWTOR will shut down. You have been saying that since release and i doubt you will stop any time soon. According to you now SWTOR might not make past 2013. But what you forget is thatw e are dealing with EA here. Not SOE. And EA unlike SOE doesn't believe in escalating things if they have no profit to make. So one cna wonder why SWTOR is still alive and kicking? You think EA gives a damn about its fan base?
I do not have a personal axe to grind with Bioware or EA (who are the same thing). I liked Bioware I liked every game they made. SWTOR is what it is, and I just say what it is, It is one side of things.
It's just not me but anyone who is regular enough on these forums or SWTOR section would have a very hard time to believe that you don't have a personal axe to grind.
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
I do not have an axe to grind, I just say how I see it. eg The last known information from EA states that they need 500K subs, and was said before the game launched and was said again on 1st Aug after the layoff. What I say is said with a lot of logical thought put into it, and not just wild fleeting accusations of hate. You say that the 500K may not matter any more and it may well be true, but there is ZERO evidence to back that up. There is evidence and fact being stated from EA that need 500K subs to break even.
All that seems to be happening here, is people seem to have an axe to grind with me, for just stating the truth and the way things are from FACTS as stated by EA and stuff that has actually happened. Because what I say is all feasible people including yourself respond to defend and just want to dismiss all the bad stuff going on, and like to live in fairy land where SWTOR is still P2P, still has 2 million subs, no staff have been dismissed, servers are still over 200 and FULL, the Doctors are still with Bioware, and Makeb was launched in November, and waiting on more new content within the next few months as well etc and bury their head back in the sand.
EA are more likely to shut down a game than SOE. SWG got shut down because of LA. If SOE had full control then SWG would not have shut down. The thing that changes thngs now is that Disney have control, and they may not be so greedy with the IP fee. SWTOR is still ticking along right now because with F2P it is good enough for them, but will it be good enough come later in the year.? I do not know where you got me saying it would be dead in 6 months, you are just making things up now, as I have never said that. I have always said I do not see it surviving past 2013.
Complaing about me complaining about the name generator? What, so you like broken games? What is the harm in mentioing it to try and get fixed? If they were able to fix it then it would make things better. No wonder the game remains crap, any negativity just gets swept under the rug and does not get dealt with. I have no regrets suggesting things to make the game better like the problem I had with Rnadom Name Generator and I will not be bullied from posting such threads. Other MMOs do DO the random name generators BETTER.
If I posted a thread complianing about load times, then that would be taking things to the extreme, as they are part of the game and can not be helped, and even STO is worse.
Quoteception .
I just believe that the things you might be complaining about is exaggerated, or does not carry importance with the mainstream.
Sure they missed some deadlines, and it was a little bit concerning, though they had to change some things, but you're the first I heard say name generator is faulty.
There are about four other mmos which comes close to Swtor's complexity, and none that was as expensive to develop.
They took a gamble, some liked it, and some sticked with it.
Why do you feel the need to bash the game, if you clearly do not feel a damn about it.
ALL mmo's have issues.
BTW. I haven't yet seen a MMO which implements pvp as well as Swtor.
And the content is also allot, there's so much I still want to do, and experience in the game.
Sure I'm excited about TESO, Wildstar, and less enthusiastic about Neverwinter, and sure they are bound to influence SWTOR's player base, but it will indure, as there is still a massive following, and actually extremely active start zones, all the way through to endgame.
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
I do not have an axe to grind, I just say how I see it. eg The last known information from EA states that they need 500K subs, and was said before the game launched and was said again on 1st Aug after the layoff. What I say is said with a lot of logical thought put into it, and not just wild fleeting accusations of hate. You say that the 500K may not matter any more and it may well be true, but there is ZERO evidence to back that up. There is evidence and fact being stated from EA that need 500K subs to break even.
All that seems to be happening here, is people seem to have an axe to grind with me, for just stating the truth and the way things are from FACTS as stated by EA and stuff that has actually happened. Because what I say is all feasible people including yourself respond to defend and just want to dismiss all the bad stuff going on, and like to live in fairy land where SWTOR is still P2P, still has 2 million subs, no staff have been dismissed, servers are still over 200 and FULL, the Doctors are still with Bioware, and Makeb was launched in November, and waiting on more new content within the next few months as well etc and bury their head back in the sand.
EA are more likely to shut down a game than SOE. SWG got shut down because of LA. If SOE had full control then SWG would not have shut down. The thing that changes thngs now is that Disney have control, and they may not be so greedy with the IP fee
Dude, you've been an ardent defender of SOE since your very first post on these forums...
Dude I have played SEVERAL times since Nov. 2005, ableit for a few days at a time because the game is more boring than watching the grass in my lawn grow. Economy is SHOT. Playerbase is TINY. Very little progress in 2 years... You know the story.
The masses don't lie, SWG sucks.
A few days at a time makes an accurate assessment, not
Playerbase is tiny because people have listened to people like you, on opinions of old rather than opinions of now, and not bother with it. The only thing wrong with the game right now is the lack of players. If more players returned to the game, then they could see its greatness, post positive reviews and will be back on top.
Anybodys opinion of SWG means squat if they no longer play the game.
On the SWG forums, I see more posts of players returning than leaving.
SWG sucked but not now, and will suck even less when Chapter 7 (and 8) are implemented.
You're basically blaming the people that left the game for SWG's troubles and giving a pass to SOE. You also made it a point to post this in the SWG Veteran's forum knowing full well that sub-forum was filled with people who hated the NGE and you did stuff like this constantly. This is why I and others have so little sympathy for you now that the shoe is on the other foot.
And your opinions of TOR were sour before it was even released.....
SWG is still a viable game, but just left to rot by LA, as they go off and work on SWTOR. I bet if SWTOR never came into existence, then SWG would have gotten an overhaul, and reworked.
SWTOR is a good game in its own right but no where a good game for a replacement for SWG. If SWG remained I would have enjiyed SWTOR, but now SWG is being shut down, I am hating it. I have never played SWTOR and I do not care for it. I do care for SWG though, A LOT.
No one is saying that you don't have a right to hate a game. But don't try and pretend that you aren't grinding an axe because your post history doesn't lie.You were loving the NGE,the game closed, you blame TOR for your game closing and you've hated it ever since.
Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by tom_gore I'll give until the end of 2013 before EA pulls the plug on the servers.
No they won't.
They're still stringing along Warhammer which obviously has way lower net income for them. So why in the hell would they close this game?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
No they don't as long as they can recoup their initial investment over the years. And if EA had no chance of doing that SWTOR would be shut down by now. EA doesn't give a damn about fan base and would shut the game down rather than incur losses. This is EA we are talking about.
gThey said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
I have been hearing that SWTOR will be dead in 6 months since release. So i see that now doom and gloom has been extended to 2013 and beyond.
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
How muchh profit they are making is something only EA knows. Rest of us can only speculate. Just some time ago you and others were saying that SWTOR will never have any content update. Who knows what future holds? people who are extremely negative about SWTOR and want to see it burned to ground will always try to put a negative spin on every good news.
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
I really don't want to get into STO discussion with you. I think we already discussed about this on length in another topic. As far trion goes there has been plenty of doom and gloom about Rift on these forums (not surprised though). Every MMO ahs its share of obsessed haters. You think people have not been ripping Trion apart and makign predictions about it going F2P soon?
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
No that is all you have been saying over and over again. That SWTOR will shut down. You have been saying that since release and i doubt you will stop any time soon. According to you now SWTOR might not make past 2013. But what you forget is thatw e are dealing with EA here. Not SOE. And EA unlike SOE doesn't believe in escalating things if they have no profit to make. So one cna wonder why SWTOR is still alive and kicking? You think EA gives a damn about its fan base?
I do not have a personal axe to grind with Bioware or EA (who are the same thing). I liked Bioware I liked every game they made. SWTOR is what it is, and I just say what it is, It is one side of things.
It's just not me but anyone who is regular enough on these forums or SWTOR section would have a very hard time to believe that you don't have a personal axe to grind.
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
I do not have an axe to grind, I just say how I see it. eg The last known information from EA states that they need 500K subs, and was said before the game launched and was said again on 1st Aug after the layoff. What I say is said with a lot of logical thought put into it, and not just wild fleeting accusations of hate. You say that the 500K may not matter any more and it may well be true, but there is ZERO evidence to back that up. There is evidence and fact being stated from EA that need 500K subs to break even.
All that seems to be happening here, is people seem to have an axe to grind with me, for just stating the truth and the way things are from FACTS as stated by EA and stuff that has actually happened. Because what I say is all feasible people including yourself respond to defend and just want to dismiss all the bad stuff going on, and like to live in fairy land where SWTOR is still P2P, still has 2 million subs, no staff have been dismissed, servers are still over 200 and FULL, the Doctors are still with Bioware, and Makeb was launched in November, and waiting on more new content within the next few months as well etc and bury their head back in the sand.
EA are more likely to shut down a game than SOE. SWG got shut down because of LA. If SOE had full control then SWG would not have shut down. The thing that changes thngs now is that Disney have control, and they may not be so greedy with the IP fee. SWTOR is still ticking along right now because with F2P it is good enough for them, but will it be good enough come later in the year.? I do not know where you got me saying it would be dead in 6 months, you are just making things up now, as I have never said that. I have always said I do not see it surviving past 2013.
Complaing about me complaining about the name generator? What, so you like broken games? What is the harm in mentioing it to try and get fixed? If they were able to fix it then it would make things better. No wonder the game remains crap, any negativity just gets swept under the rug and does not get dealt with. I have no regrets suggesting things to make the game better like the problem I had with Rnadom Name Generator and I will not be bullied from posting such threads. Other MMOs do DO the random name generators BETTER.
If I posted a thread complianing about load times, then that would be taking things to the extreme, as they are part of the game and can not be helped, and even STO is worse.
Ok lets make a deal you stop spamming the same thing over and over on every single tor post until 2014. If tor closes anytime in 2013 as you predict then feel free to come back and let us know. So until then try to control the spamming thanks.
Ok lets make a deal you stop spamming the same thing over and over on every single tor post until 2014. If tor closes anytime in 2013 as you predict then feel free to come back and let us know. So until then try to control the spamming thanks.
I am not spamming, just responding to peoples posts. I only repeat myseelf as it does not seem that they understand or I am speaking to someone else who has not read what I have previously posted. If there was less people getting at me then I would not respond so much. There are plenty other people who post more threads and posts against SWTOR than I do, yet they get ignored. For the most part I avoid constructive gameplay threads, but always have stuff to say in thredas like this and "servers dying" threads
Doogiehowser is not playing the game at the moment either because SWTOR is not not very good, and the time I will stop moaning will be when the game is good, and that will be the cue for him and others to go back to the game
Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by WickedjellyOriginally posted by tom_goreI'll give until the end of 2013 before EA pulls the plug on the servers.
No they won't.They're still stringing along Warhammer which obviously has way lower net income for them. So why in the hell would they close this game?But does Warhammer require 500k subs ($7.5 million per month) to break even?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
SWG was run by 2,5 devs for years after it had been bandoned before they finally pulled the plug...servers were desolate 2005 and onward......and still it kept running through microtransactions....so unless a new Star Wars franchose comes along, they could stretch this out for as many years as Sony did.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
I do not have an axe to grind, I just say how I see it. eg The last known information from EA states that they need 500K subs, and was said before the game launched and was said again on 1st Aug after the layoff. What I say is said with a lot of logical thought put into it, and not just wild fleeting accusations of hate. You say that the 500K may not matter any more and it may well be true, but there is ZERO evidence to back that up. There is evidence and fact being stated from EA that need 500K subs to break even.
All that seems to be happening here, is people seem to have an axe to grind with me, for just stating the truth and the way things are from FACTS as stated by EA and stuff that has actually happened. Because what I say is all feasible people including yourself respond to defend and just want to dismiss all the bad stuff going on, and like to live in fairy land where SWTOR is still P2P, still has 2 million subs, no staff have been dismissed, servers are still over 200 and FULL, the Doctors are still with Bioware, and Makeb was launched in November, and waiting on more new content within the next few months as well etc and bury their head back in the sand.
EA are more likely to shut down a game than SOE. SWG got shut down because of LA. If SOE had full control then SWG would not have shut down. The thing that changes thngs now is that Disney have control, and they may not be so greedy with the IP fee
Dude, you've been an ardent defender of SOE since your very first post on these forums...
Dude I have played SEVERAL times since Nov. 2005, ableit for a few days at a time because the game is more boring than watching the grass in my lawn grow. Economy is SHOT. Playerbase is TINY. Very little progress in 2 years... You know the story.
The masses don't lie, SWG sucks.
A few days at a time makes an accurate assessment, not
Playerbase is tiny because people have listened to people like you, on opinions of old rather than opinions of now, and not bother with it. The only thing wrong with the game right now is the lack of players. If more players returned to the game, then they could see its greatness, post positive reviews and will be back on top.
Anybodys opinion of SWG means squat if they no longer play the game.
On the SWG forums, I see more posts of players returning than leaving.
SWG sucked but not now, and will suck even less when Chapter 7 (and 8) are implemented.
You're basically blaming the people that left the game for SWG's troubles and giving a pass to SOE. You also made it a point to post this in the SWG Veteran's forum knowing full well that sub-forum was filled with people who hated the NGE and you did stuff like this constantly. This is why I and others have so little sympathy for you now that the shoe is on the other foot.
And your opinions of TOR were sour before it was even released.....
SWG is still a viable game, but just left to rot by LA, as they go off and work on SWTOR. I bet if SWTOR never came into existence, then SWG would have gotten an overhaul, and reworked.
SWTOR is a good game in its own right but no where a good game for a replacement for SWG. If SWG remained I would have enjiyed SWTOR, but now SWG is being shut down, I am hating it. I have never played SWTOR and I do not care for it. I do care for SWG though, A LOT.
No one is saying that you don't have a right to hate a game. But don't try and pretend that you aren't grinding an axe because your post history doesn't lie.You were loving the NGE,the game closed, you blame TOR for your game closing and you've hated it ever since.
How can you hate something when it is not out, it is just words at that stage and easy to say when SWG was still around. I hated the NGE too in 2005/2006, but got over it obviosuly, as was the only Star Wars MMO around . I played every MMO after the NGE, but nothing captured my attention like SWG did. SWTOR is now the only SW MMO, and if I want to play a SW MMO, then I have no choice but to play SWTOR.
SWG shut down, so now left to play SWTOR and STO as a repacement. If SWG did not shut down I would not play STO either. STO replaces the space elements, and SWTOR replaces the ground elements, and where it is free it no longer breaks the bank, so there is that positive. If it was not F2P I probably still would be subbing from time to time if not monthly just to get a SW fix, but now since Nov 15th, EA has not seen a single penny from me, and I can still get a quick fix.
Basically I have moved on from SWG, and on to SWTOR and STO
btw SWTOR > Rift (on a personal level, as got bored of it already) however Rift > SWTOR in the grand scheme of things
Originally posted by tom_goreI'll give until the end of 2013 before EA pulls the plug on the servers.
No they won't.They're still stringing along Warhammer which obviously has way lower net income for them. So why in the hell would they close this game?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
SWG was run by 2,5 devs for years after it had been bandoned before they finally pulled the plug...servers were desolate 2005 and onward......and still it kept running through microtransactions....so unless a new Star Wars franchose comes along, they could stretch this out for as many years as Sony did.
Thing is though that SWG was a cheap as chips to run, and the devs loved coding for the game, working round the clock to get things done. SWG ended as the licence ran out. How long is the licence for with SWTOR? 2 years? Then it may shut down this yerar. 8 years? Then it may last as long as SWG. Do you know for sure?
Originally posted by primedgamer Hey you dont have to get defensive i was just asking why post the same thing on two didn't posts. Unfortunately swtor or anyother mmo will not get better or be the next big mmo because of todays lazy gamers and gamers who feel the are entitled to everything for free are the reason for these half made mmos.
SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
F2p gamers out number those who will pay 6 to 1 right now. So yes swtor and every game from now on has to adapt to these lazy gamers. Swtor was expensive due to the voice acting which is the best of an mmo. They did screw up in other areas but now they have to adapt. I would say swtor is in the same boat as any company reducing cost due to a competition, cost and the change of the mmo community. The change i am referring to is the laziness and entitlement this new generation has.
SWTOR is not exactly F2P in many peoples eyes, but a freemium extended trial 1-50, which will be even more-so highlighted when the level cap goes to 55 for non-F2P'ers. Anyways, the number of "MMO'ers" has been on the rise, but the number of people paying a subscription fee hasn't changed much over the last several years. 6.1 million activ subscribers in 2007, 6.7 million active subscribers in 2012 (Western region). Saying all gamers are lazy isn't exactly true. My UI is messed up but here is the link: http://www.superdataresearch.com/case-study-does-it-pay-to-switch-to-free-to-play/
I didnt say all gamers are lazy. I said the majority as your stat shows moatmost newer mmo players are f2p. How can we expect these game to produce a quality product when they know most want it for free becauae they feel they are entitled to get it free.
damn lazy gamers,,just do like in real life
cut their salaries,,or fire them
and , as wow and EVE have proven,,making a quality product is the best way to keep the F2P crowd away
Originally posted by grimal Their forums. Their rules. Nothing new here.
Yeah that is well fair enough but you can not see them, they removed them
It reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard. Sherriff Roscoe removes a road sign, then the Dukes do not see the sign, and so break the law, Roscoe then replaces the sign, and give the Dukes a ticket
Originally posted by Karteli
Last month EA put new forum rules into their "system". They still enforce the rules, but because of backlash, they removed them from their Developer Blogs.
Originally posted by grimal Their forums. Their rules. Nothing new here.
Yeah that is well fair enough but you can not see them, they removed them
It reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard. Sherriff Roscoe removes a road sign, then the Dukes do not see the sign, and so break the law, Roscoe then replaces the sign, and give the Dukes a ticket
Originally posted by Karteli
Last month EA put new forum rules into their "system". They still enforce the rules, but because of backlash, they removed them from their Developer Blogs.
Doesn't matter. Their forums. They can do whatever they want. This OP is really just making a mountain out of a molehill.
SWG was run by 2,5 devs for years after it had been bandoned before they finally pulled the plug...servers were desolate 2005 and onward......and still it kept running through microtransactions....so unless a new Star Wars franchose comes along, they could stretch this out for as many years as Sony did.
Thing is though that SWG was a cheap as chips to run, and the devs loved coding ....(broken record)
SWG never had microtransactions
Yes SWG did have microtransactions. It was started in 2008 and was called the Trading Card Game. You buy new packs of cards which gave you the ability to aquire in game items. This was on top of the subscription fee you paid. That's what microtransactions are. You buy a pack and it's luck of the draw what you ended up getting. No different than TOR's cartel packs.
Comments
Wait what? SWTOR underperformed because 2.4 million lazy, entitled people bought intending to pay box cost and a $15 a month subscription? Sounds like the "stabbed in the back" mentality I mentioned in another thread.SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
F2p gamers out number those who will pay 6 to 1 right now. So yes swtor and every game from now on has to adapt to these lazy gamers. Swtor was expensive due to the voice acting which is the best of an mmo. They did screw up in other areas but now they have to adapt. I would say swtor is in the same boat as any company reducing cost due to a competition, cost and the change of the mmo community. The change i am referring to is the laziness and entitlement this new generationhas.
SWTOR is not exactly F2P in many peoples eyes, but a freemium extended trial 1-50, which will be even more-so highlighted when the level cap goes to 55 for non-F2P'ers.Anyways, the number of "MMO'ers" has been on the rise, but the number of people paying a subscription fee hasn't changed much over the last several years. 6.1 million activ subscribers in 2007, 6.7 million active subscribers in 2012 (Western region). Saying all gamers are lazy isn't exactly true. My UI is messed up but here is the link: http://www.superdataresearch.com/case-study-does-it-pay-to-switch-to-free-to-play/
I didnt say all gamers are lazy. I said the majority as your stat shows moatmost newer mmo players are f2p. How can we expect these game to produce a quality product when they know most want it for free becauae they feel they are entitled to get it free.There are plenty of F2P games that help draw conclusions about the success of F2P over subscriptions. Perfect World and Ragnarok Online for instance had something like 50-60 million accounts (not all active though). Wizard 101 is doing good too. But these aren't games I'm going to play.
Mobile F2P games are hot too, but not my cup of tea.
This can go back to what you were saying about newer MMO players, but to me if a game is incredibly fun it doesn't matter what the payment model is.
Fun? I'll subscribe or use their F2P cashshop .. not fun? I won't subscribe or I won't use their cashshop. I realize this is anecdotal, but just saying that F2P isn't always the best scheme, for developers, or for players, in the long run. It's going to depend of what sort of experience they want .. or expect (frequent content updates? help / support? Niche game ..)
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
The game launched P2P with no intention of going FTP.
Blaming FTP players for a P2P game underperforming is nonsense.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Does anyone remember when compuserve and AOL charged 15 bucks a month? When you had to buy actual CDs? As soon as one person modifies the price structure down, it will be expected. I don't think you can criminalize the consumer for this.
F2P has begun. I don't think there will be any stopping it now. You may as well adapt.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
The fact that the thread's title is "Forum Rules Update" immediately followed by [mod edit] is delicious irony.
Why would you want their earnings to drop. Personally, I'd like to see them make more money, and make more games. It's not up to you to decide. I can't go bashing Blizzard because of my beliefs that D3 was the worst outdated game to come out, and they wasted my money. I stay quiet, and wish them well, as some people happen to like it.
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I do not have an axe to grind, I just say how I see it. eg The last known information from EA states that they need 500K subs, and was said before the game launched and was said again on 1st Aug after the layoff. What I say is said with a lot of logical thought put into it, and not just wild fleeting accusations of hate. You say that the 500K may not matter any more and it may well be true, but there is ZERO evidence to back that up. There is evidence and fact being stated from EA that need 500K subs to break even.
All that seems to be happening here, is people seem to have an axe to grind with me, for just stating the truth and the way things are from FACTS as stated by EA and stuff that has actually happened. Because what I say is all feasible people including yourself respond to defend and just want to dismiss all the bad stuff going on, and like to live in fairy land where SWTOR is still P2P, still has 2 million subs, no staff have been dismissed, servers are still over 200 and FULL, the Doctors are still with Bioware, and Makeb was launched in November, and waiting on more new content within the next few months as well etc and bury their head back in the sand.
EA are more likely to shut down a game than SOE. SWG got shut down because of LA. If SOE had full control then SWG would not have shut down. The thing that changes thngs now is that Disney have control, and they may not be so greedy with the IP fee. SWTOR is still ticking along right now because with F2P it is good enough for them, but will it be good enough come later in the year.? I do not know where you got me saying it would be dead in 6 months, you are just making things up now, as I have never said that. I have always said I do not see it surviving past 2013.
Complaing about me complaining about the name generator? What, so you like broken games? What is the harm in mentioing it to try and get fixed? If they were able to fix it then it would make things better. No wonder the game remains crap, any negativity just gets swept under the rug and does not get dealt with. I have no regrets suggesting things to make the game better like the problem I had with Rnadom Name Generator and I will not be bullied from posting such threads. Other MMOs do DO the random name generators BETTER.
If I posted a thread complianing about load times, then that would be taking things to the extreme, as they are part of the game and can not be helped, and even STO is worse.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Quoteception .
I just believe that the things you might be complaining about is exaggerated, or does not carry importance with the mainstream.
Sure they missed some deadlines, and it was a little bit concerning, though they had to change some things, but you're the first I heard say name generator is faulty.
There are about four other mmos which comes close to Swtor's complexity, and none that was as expensive to develop.
They took a gamble, some liked it, and some sticked with it.
Why do you feel the need to bash the game, if you clearly do not feel a damn about it.
ALL mmo's have issues.
BTW. I haven't yet seen a MMO which implements pvp as well as Swtor.
And the content is also allot, there's so much I still want to do, and experience in the game.
Sure I'm excited about TESO, Wildstar, and less enthusiastic about Neverwinter, and sure they are bound to influence SWTOR's player base, but it will indure, as there is still a massive following, and actually extremely active start zones, all the way through to endgame.
Dude, you've been an ardent defender of SOE since your very first post on these forums...
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10/25/07
A few days at a time makes an accurate assessment, not
Playerbase is tiny because people have listened to people like you, on opinions of old rather than opinions of now, and not bother with it. The only thing wrong with the game right now is the lack of players. If more players returned to the game, then they could see its greatness, post positive reviews and will be back on top.
Anybodys opinion of SWG means squat if they no longer play the game.
On the SWG forums, I see more posts of players returning than leaving.
SWG sucked but not now, and will suck even less when Chapter 7 (and 8) are implemented.
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You're basically blaming the people that left the game for SWG's troubles and giving a pass to SOE. You also made it a point to post this in the SWG Veteran's forum knowing full well that sub-forum was filled with people who hated the NGE and you did stuff like this constantly. This is why I and others have so little sympathy for you now that the shoe is on the other foot.
And your opinions of TOR were sour before it was even released.....
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8/24/11
SWG is still a viable game, but just left to rot by LA, as they go off and work on SWTOR. I bet if SWTOR never came into existence, then SWG would have gotten an overhaul, and reworked.
SWTOR is a good game in its own right but no where a good game for a replacement for SWG. If SWG remained I would have enjiyed SWTOR, but now SWG is being shut down, I am hating it. I have never played SWTOR and I do not care for it. I do care for SWG though, A LOT.
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No one is saying that you don't have a right to hate a game. But don't try and pretend that you aren't grinding an axe because your post history doesn't lie.You were loving the NGE,the game closed, you blame TOR for your game closing and you've hated it ever since.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
This doesn't surprise me. Especially after whats his face left Bioware so butthurt about everything talking bad about his precious ToR.
I almost feel sorry for them, it's like they were never told no as children.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
No they won't.
They're still stringing along Warhammer which obviously has way lower net income for them. So why in the hell would they close this game?
But does Warhammer require 500k subs ($7.5 million per month) to break even?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
No they don't as long as they can recoup their initial investment over the years. And if EA had no chance of doing that SWTOR would be shut down by now. EA doesn't give a damn about fan base and would shut the game down rather than incur losses. This is EA we are talking about.
gThey said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
I have been hearing that SWTOR will be dead in 6 months since release. So i see that now doom and gloom has been extended to 2013 and beyond.
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
How muchh profit they are making is something only EA knows. Rest of us can only speculate. Just some time ago you and others were saying that SWTOR will never have any content update. Who knows what future holds? people who are extremely negative about SWTOR and want to see it burned to ground will always try to put a negative spin on every good news.
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
I really don't want to get into STO discussion with you. I think we already discussed about this on length in another topic. As far trion goes there has been plenty of doom and gloom about Rift on these forums (not surprised though). Every MMO ahs its share of obsessed haters. You think people have not been ripping Trion apart and makign predictions about it going F2P soon?
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
No that is all you have been saying over and over again. That SWTOR will shut down. You have been saying that since release and i doubt you will stop any time soon. According to you now SWTOR might not make past 2013. But what you forget is thatw e are dealing with EA here. Not SOE. And EA unlike SOE doesn't believe in escalating things if they have no profit to make. So one cna wonder why SWTOR is still alive and kicking? You think EA gives a damn about its fan base?
I do not have a personal axe to grind with Bioware or EA (who are the same thing). I liked Bioware I liked every game they made. SWTOR is what it is, and I just say what it is, It is one side of things.
It's just not me but anyone who is regular enough on these forums or SWTOR section would have a very hard time to believe that you don't have a personal axe to grind.
I know you like to say things the way they are but somewhere in between you try to pass your assumptions as facts and this constant tearing of SWTOR on every given step is getting really tiring. I don't even play SWTOR right now but being a fan of MMO genre i like to keep an eye on progress of all MMOS. And everytime i log into these forums i see you tearing SWTOR down on daily basis. Crticising from story, to graphics to even name generator..i mean t has to stop at some point right?
SWG is dead..time to let it go.
I do not have an axe to grind, I just say how I see it. eg The last known information from EA states that they need 500K subs, and was said before the game launched and was said again on 1st Aug after the layoff. What I say is said with a lot of logical thought put into it, and not just wild fleeting accusations of hate. You say that the 500K may not matter any more and it may well be true, but there is ZERO evidence to back that up. There is evidence and fact being stated from EA that need 500K subs to break even.
All that seems to be happening here, is people seem to have an axe to grind with me, for just stating the truth and the way things are from FACTS as stated by EA and stuff that has actually happened. Because what I say is all feasible people including yourself respond to defend and just want to dismiss all the bad stuff going on, and like to live in fairy land where SWTOR is still P2P, still has 2 million subs, no staff have been dismissed, servers are still over 200 and FULL, the Doctors are still with Bioware, and Makeb was launched in November, and waiting on more new content within the next few months as well etc and bury their head back in the sand.
EA are more likely to shut down a game than SOE. SWG got shut down because of LA. If SOE had full control then SWG would not have shut down. The thing that changes thngs now is that Disney have control, and they may not be so greedy with the IP fee. SWTOR is still ticking along right now because with F2P it is good enough for them, but will it be good enough come later in the year.? I do not know where you got me saying it would be dead in 6 months, you are just making things up now, as I have never said that. I have always said I do not see it surviving past 2013.
Complaing about me complaining about the name generator? What, so you like broken games? What is the harm in mentioing it to try and get fixed? If they were able to fix it then it would make things better. No wonder the game remains crap, any negativity just gets swept under the rug and does not get dealt with. I have no regrets suggesting things to make the game better like the problem I had with Rnadom Name Generator and I will not be bullied from posting such threads. Other MMOs do DO the random name generators BETTER.
If I posted a thread complianing about load times, then that would be taking things to the extreme, as they are part of the game and can not be helped, and even STO is worse.
Ok lets make a deal you stop spamming the same thing over and over on every single tor post until 2014. If tor closes anytime in 2013 as you predict then feel free to come back and let us know. So until then try to control the spamming thanks.I am not spamming, just responding to peoples posts. I only repeat myseelf as it does not seem that they understand or I am speaking to someone else who has not read what I have previously posted. If there was less people getting at me then I would not respond so much. There are plenty other people who post more threads and posts against SWTOR than I do, yet they get ignored. For the most part I avoid constructive gameplay threads, but always have stuff to say in thredas like this and "servers dying" threads
Doogiehowser is not playing the game at the moment either because SWTOR is not not very good, and the time I will stop moaning will be when the game is good, and that will be the cue for him and others to go back to the game
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
i dont like to burn my hand, so i have learned , not to touch fire,,i was 3 or 4 years old back then
when you reach that age, try doing the same,,it might work for you too
But does Warhammer require 500k subs ($7.5 million per month) to break even?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
SWG was run by 2,5 devs for years after it had been bandoned before they finally pulled the plug...servers were desolate 2005 and onward......and still it kept running through microtransactions....so unless a new Star Wars franchose comes along, they could stretch this out for as many years as Sony did.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
How can you hate something when it is not out, it is just words at that stage and easy to say when SWG was still around. I hated the NGE too in 2005/2006, but got over it obviosuly, as was the only Star Wars MMO around . I played every MMO after the NGE, but nothing captured my attention like SWG did. SWTOR is now the only SW MMO, and if I want to play a SW MMO, then I have no choice but to play SWTOR.
SWG shut down, so now left to play SWTOR and STO as a repacement. If SWG did not shut down I would not play STO either. STO replaces the space elements, and SWTOR replaces the ground elements, and where it is free it no longer breaks the bank, so there is that positive. If it was not F2P I probably still would be subbing from time to time if not monthly just to get a SW fix, but now since Nov 15th, EA has not seen a single penny from me, and I can still get a quick fix.
Basically I have moved on from SWG, and on to SWTOR and STO
btw SWTOR > Rift (on a personal level, as got bored of it already) however Rift > SWTOR in the grand scheme of things
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Thing is though that SWG was a cheap as chips to run, and the devs loved coding for the game, working round the clock to get things done. SWG ended as the licence ran out. How long is the licence for with SWTOR? 2 years? Then it may shut down this yerar. 8 years? Then it may last as long as SWG. Do you know for sure?
SWG never had microtransactions
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
damn lazy gamers,,just do like in real life
cut their salaries,,or fire them
and , as wow and EVE have proven,,making a quality product is the best way to keep the F2P crowd away
another mystery solved,,lets go scooby
Yeah that is well fair enough but you can not see them, they removed them
It reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard. Sherriff Roscoe removes a road sign, then the Dukes do not see the sign, and so break the law, Roscoe then replaces the sign, and give the Dukes a ticket
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Doesn't matter. Their forums. They can do whatever they want. This OP is really just making a mountain out of a molehill.
Yes SWG did have microtransactions. It was started in 2008 and was called the Trading Card Game. You buy new packs of cards which gave you the ability to aquire in game items. This was on top of the subscription fee you paid. That's what microtransactions are. You buy a pack and it's luck of the draw what you ended up getting. No different than TOR's cartel packs.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft