To the OP I quite agree that a markets system should be tested, however one can do that by issuing fictional currency during beta in conjunction with a character wipe at the conclusion of beta. Testing merely requires feedback on both the tool set involved with the market and the products offered.
Once you offer a product/service for real money it then becomes a commercial enterprise, it is no longer something under "testing" regardless of what one calls it.
Correct.
Opening the cash shop is the commencement of commercial activity, you then have customers and suppliers.
This open beta phase is a complete misnomer. What is the difference between this phase and launch?
I know what PWE are going to say - "thanks to all our players for helping us remove issues they have found, we are now ready for official launch" I call this BS of the first degree. The real world situation is they have launched this game with a pile of unchecked exploits and bugs - they can call the release what they want, it won't change anything.
To the OP I quite agree that a markets system should be tested, however one can do that by issuing fictional currency during beta in conjunction with a character wipe at the conclusion of beta. Testing merely requires feedback on both the tool set involved with the market and the products offered.
Once you offer a product/service for real money it then becomes a commercial enterprise, it is no longer something under "testing" regardless of what one calls it.
It seems the only Test that is being conducted so far (in my mind) is how the servers are handling and how much people are buying. I don't know PWI, I don't know how they do their work, but would it be impossible for them to lower prices if stuff isn't being bought?
As I said I think you missed my point but to clarify. Are you asking how are they supposed to do market research? Ie spending habits
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
Or more common in more reputable franchises during beta; testers are issued a given amount of currency. GW2 did this, LOTRO does this on it test server to name a couple.
What you describe is still a real world transaction not a test. It is designed with intent to get potential player/payers monetarily invested before the game even "launches", not to test systems.
Flawed, apologist argument. If they just wanted to "test" the cash shop, they could do it using very small amounts or amounts that would be refunded after open beta with the typical character wipe.
No, it is a money grab and not a "test" of the cash shop. That is just a load of rubbish.
To the OP I quite agree that a markets system should be tested, however one can do that by issuing fictional currency during beta in conjunction with a character wipe at the conclusion of beta. Testing merely requires feedback on both the tool set involved with the market and the products offered.
Once you offer a product/service for real money it then becomes a commercial enterprise, it is no longer something under "testing" regardless of what one calls it.
It seems the only Test that is being conducted so far (in my mind) is how the servers are handling and how much people are buying. I don't know PWI, I don't know how they do their work, but would it be impossible for them to lower prices if stuff isn't being bought?
As I said I think you missed my point but to clarify. Are you asking how are they supposed to do market research? Ie spending habits
Yes. If they didn't do it in closed but need to do it, which they are doing it in Open, why are they not a loud according to the people?
Flawed, apologist argument. If they just wanted to "test" the cash shop, they could do it using very small amounts or amounts that would be refunded after open beta with the typical character wipe.
No, it is a money grab and not a "test" of the cash shop. That is just a load of rubbish.
I'm not arguing, I'm asking for a conversation. But why is it rubbish? Why is it they are not a loud to do this? Are we sure it's a money grab? I gave them a fiver because I like the content they gave me. Was I duped? To you I might but I got what I wanted. And if they changed the price should I be entitled to a refund? It seems the people who just want the game and nothing else hate cash shops for no reason other than "You guys are making an MMO, just give me one thing and nothing else" and when they see the cash shop they go bananas. I don't feel it is a cash grab, and I feel like they are doing their best with what they have.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Does it really matter? People are willing to pay for something that's claimed to be free.
Lol, the hypocrisy and calamity of it all is quite amusing... and disheartening.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Market research is not the function of a beta test. beta tests sole purpose is to test game mechanics, systems, tools, hardware, and infrastructure/network architecture.
Market research is a function of the oddly enough named marketing dept. doing the even more oddly named activity of researching the likely spending habits of the products intended consumer.
Market research is not the function of a beta test. beta tests sole purpose is to test game mechanics, systems, tools, hardware, and infrastructure/network architecture.
Market research is a function of the oddly enough named marketing dept. doing the even more oddly named activity of researching the likely spending habits of the products intended consumer.
There is a tool of trading Astral Diamonds into Zenny, so would that not count as a game mechanic? Even if it's marketing, it IS part of the GAME. Thus it counts as a game marketing test. Again, if this doesn't change down the line or it just gets more expensive, then it really wasn't a test at all.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
well there are suckers born everyday, I'm sure they are happy to have you
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Guess they could have done like Path of Exile did, full cash shop in beta, but anything invested were refunded to be used when the game launch. Neverwinter guys "forgot" to check the definition of beta, and called their launch a beta. Anyways, too late now and what we think has no meaning anyways, back to playing.
Does it really matter? People are willing to pay for something that's claimed to be free.
Lol, the hypocrisy and calamity of it all is quite amusing... and disheartening.
In Neverwinter, DDO, and Lotro (the only ones I know so far) you can get RMT currency for nothing. Though for DDO/Lotro, It seems better to just throw down money to advance since those two games have their content behind a pay wall. Neverwinter you can trade Astral Diamonds for Zenny, and there is no shortage of getting diamonds as well, so I can get everything I want in that game for free. Same with DDO/Lotro if I really invest time into it.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
well there are suckers born everyday, I'm sure they are happy to have you
/cheers
It's not being a sucker,it's actually seeing thing's for what they are.Some have trouble seeing it I guess.
But keep thinking that.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
well there are suckers born everyday, I'm sure they are happy to have you
/cheers
How does that make him a sucker though? In a way this is true. You make a launch and it's buggy, it's a fail launch and no one wants your game. You call it a beta test and everything is botched, they call it a fail beta and still say it's going to be fail when it launches. For companies now it seems like a lose/lose.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
They can hand out credits(zen) so players can TEST the cash shop.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
They can hand out credits(zen) so players can TEST the cash shop.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
well there are suckers born everyday, I'm sure they are happy to have you
/cheers
How does that make him a sucker though? In a way this is true. You make a launch and it's buggy, it's a fail launch and no one wants your game. You call it a beta test and everything is botched, they call it a fail beta and still say it's going to be fail when it launches. For companies now it seems like a lose/lose.
If a launch is "buggy" it is always because one or more of the following:
Beta used as a marketing/advertisement tool instead of a testing one
Moving a beta build into live that had significant unresolved and reported issues in lieu of resolving in a consecutive build
Having unrealistic deadlines on concept/design/testing/re-design phases
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
well there are suckers born everyday, I'm sure they are happy to have you
/cheers
How does that make him a sucker though? In a way this is true. You make a launch and it's buggy, it's a fail launch and no one wants your game. You call it a beta test and everything is botched, they call it a fail beta and still say it's going to be fail when it launches. For companies now it seems like a lose/lose.
If a launch is "buggy" it is always because one or more of the following:
Beta used as a marketing/advertisement tool instead of a testing one
Moving a beta build into live that had significant unresolved and reported issues in lieu of resolving in a consecutive build
Having unrealistic deadlines on concept/design/testing/re-design phases
Having an understaffed QA dept.
Unrealistic server/client load projections
poor market research
poor metrics data interpretation
I never played it, but wasn't WoW's launch super buggy and all around bad? And look at it now?! Every launch will either be bad or good, but it doesn't mean it's a terrible game, it was either rushed or thought it was good until something internally blew up.
Originally posted by reploidx So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
well there are suckers born everyday, I'm sure they are happy to have you
/cheers
How does that make him a sucker though? In a way this is true. You make a launch and it's buggy, it's a fail launch and no one wants your game. You call it a beta test and everything is botched, they call it a fail beta and still say it's going to be fail when it launches. For companies now it seems like a lose/lose.
If a launch is "buggy" it is always because one or more of the following:
Beta used as a marketing/advertisement tool instead of a testing one
Moving a beta build into live that had significant unresolved and reported issues in lieu of resolving in a consecutive build
Having unrealistic deadlines on concept/design/testing/re-design phases
Having an understaffed QA dept.
Unrealistic server/client load projections
poor market research
poor metrics data interpretation
Would you care to explain pretty much every buggy launch since and including WoW?Games that didn't take money in open beta.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Bottom line : using "beta", which is supposed to be for testing purpose only, to start grabbing cash and making excuses for bugs is just lame and greedy.
At least have the guts to call your product released when you want to start charging $$.
Comments
Correct.
Opening the cash shop is the commencement of commercial activity, you then have customers and suppliers.
This open beta phase is a complete misnomer. What is the difference between this phase and launch?
I know what PWE are going to say - "thanks to all our players for helping us remove issues they have found, we are now ready for official launch" I call this BS of the first degree. The real world situation is they have launched this game with a pile of unchecked exploits and bugs - they can call the release what they want, it won't change anything.
As I said I think you missed my point but to clarify. Are you asking how are they supposed to do market research? Ie spending habits
Honest Open Beta tests let people spend money, but at launch the server is wiped and the money is credited back to the account to be used on the "live" server.
Or more common in more reputable franchises during beta; testers are issued a given amount of currency. GW2 did this, LOTRO does this on it test server to name a couple.
What you describe is still a real world transaction not a test. It is designed with intent to get potential player/payers monetarily invested before the game even "launches", not to test systems.
Flawed, apologist argument. If they just wanted to "test" the cash shop, they could do it using very small amounts or amounts that would be refunded after open beta with the typical character wipe.
No, it is a money grab and not a "test" of the cash shop. That is just a load of rubbish.
My gaming blog
Yes. If they didn't do it in closed but need to do it, which they are doing it in Open, why are they not a loud according to the people?
I'm not arguing, I'm asking for a conversation. But why is it rubbish? Why is it they are not a loud to do this? Are we sure it's a money grab? I gave them a fiver because I like the content they gave me. Was I duped? To you I might but I got what I wanted. And if they changed the price should I be entitled to a refund? It seems the people who just want the game and nothing else hate cash shops for no reason other than "You guys are making an MMO, just give me one thing and nothing else" and when they see the cash shop they go bananas. I don't feel it is a cash grab, and I feel like they are doing their best with what they have.
The question though becomes,how is having an open beta and allowing cash shop purchases dishonest if it carries over to live?That's not dishonest in any way,in my eyes.They're using it to test server stability,tweaks and test the cash shop.Even if the testing is minimal it's still there.
I think companies are tired of us the gamer,complaining about botched releases and server downtime at launch.It's like they just can't win.They either launch and catch bs cause of server instability and such.Or they use an open beta and catch bs saying they're dishonest or it's not really a test.
This is 2013 and I think the definition's have changed as far as beta/open beta/launch.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
Does it really matter? People are willing to pay for something that's claimed to be free.
Lol, the hypocrisy and calamity of it all is quite amusing... and disheartening.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
1st if I understand you correctly:
Market research is not the function of a beta test. beta tests sole purpose is to test game mechanics, systems, tools, hardware, and infrastructure/network architecture.
Market research is a function of the oddly enough named marketing dept. doing the even more oddly named activity of researching the likely spending habits of the products intended consumer.
There is a tool of trading Astral Diamonds into Zenny, so would that not count as a game mechanic? Even if it's marketing, it IS part of the GAME. Thus it counts as a game marketing test. Again, if this doesn't change down the line or it just gets more expensive, then it really wasn't a test at all.
well there are suckers born everyday, I'm sure they are happy to have you
/cheers
Guess they could have done like Path of Exile did, full cash shop in beta, but anything invested were refunded to be used when the game launch. Neverwinter guys "forgot" to check the definition of beta, and called their launch a beta. Anyways, too late now and what we think has no meaning anyways, back to playing.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
In Neverwinter, DDO, and Lotro (the only ones I know so far) you can get RMT currency for nothing. Though for DDO/Lotro, It seems better to just throw down money to advance since those two games have their content behind a pay wall. Neverwinter you can trade Astral Diamonds for Zenny, and there is no shortage of getting diamonds as well, so I can get everything I want in that game for free. Same with DDO/Lotro if I really invest time into it.
It's not being a sucker,it's actually seeing thing's for what they are.Some have trouble seeing it I guess.
But keep thinking that.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
How does that make him a sucker though? In a way this is true. You make a launch and it's buggy, it's a fail launch and no one wants your game. You call it a beta test and everything is botched, they call it a fail beta and still say it's going to be fail when it launches. For companies now it seems like a lose/lose.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
They can hand out credits(zen) so players can TEST the cash shop.
No one should PAY for beta testing.
Then how was GW2 excused from that?
If a launch is "buggy" it is always because one or more of the following:
Beta used as a marketing/advertisement tool instead of a testing one
Moving a beta build into live that had significant unresolved and reported issues in lieu of resolving in a consecutive build
Having unrealistic deadlines on concept/design/testing/re-design phases
Having an understaffed QA dept.
Unrealistic server/client load projections
poor market research
poor metrics data interpretation
I never played it, but wasn't WoW's launch super buggy and all around bad? And look at it now?! Every launch will either be bad or good, but it doesn't mean it's a terrible game, it was either rushed or thought it was good until something internally blew up.
Would you care to explain pretty much every buggy launch since and including WoW?Games that didn't take money in open beta.
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
Bottom line : using "beta", which is supposed to be for testing purpose only, to start grabbing cash and making excuses for bugs is just lame and greedy.
At least have the guts to call your product released when you want to start charging $$.