I maybe a minority but i LOVE the 1st person combat in skyrim if you use sword ´n´board,
i cant see myself using it very much in ESO though, but i also dont think its a "waste" of dev time to implement this, since it will still be an mmo whether is has fpw or not, and it makes alot of the series fans happy, which by all rights, is only fair! just my thoughts.
1, Combat system - the Skyrim combat system will not attract the masses. Most MMO players don't enjoy running around aiming / swinging a sword / running out of stamina etc . No high population MMO has this type of system and an MMO with population is boring.
Stealth - lets be honest the stealth mechanic in Skyrim is stupid. If your character actually vanished that would be believable and that's how it should work then no need to worry about camera angles.
1, lol really? It seems to me that games have "just" started this type of combat and many people do like it. How can you say "most" players when "most games have always defaulted to tab targeting. Not like they had a choice. Let's see how they actually do like it going forward. Most people didnt' like rock music when it first came out because there was nothing like it. That's changed quite a lot.
2, so a character bathed in shadows is not as believable as someone just "vanishing"?
I just can't agree with most of your post but especially these two items.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Nanfoodle One feature I dont get why they are spending money on. 1st person works great for somethings in a MMO but not combat. This is one area TES fans did not do anything good by pushing this into production. This has taken quality dev time that could have been used on MMO content, as this is a MMO.
The devs are more to blame than the fans honestly. Fans always ask for things that are bad ideas. It's up to the Devs to be able to differentiate between good ideas that should be pushed through to make fans happy, and bad ideas that will hurt the game. It certainly doesn't bode well for the future of the game - I wonder what other silly fan requests they'll give in to. Fans don't know what they want until they see it in action and it either fails or succeeds and then two months down the line they realize it was good/bad.
If enough people demand or request the changes, they'd be stupid not to comply. These are not only the paying customers, they're the biggest part of the advertising campaign. Word of mouth has killed more than one MMO.
No they should not. We see a small % of the game design and not the whole picture. From there we start yelling what features we want without knowing, really knowing how all the parts of the MMO work together and what will happen if we get what we request. MMOs are like giant organic living games. Anything you add impacts everything else and what seem like a small change gives an entirely different outcome.
Looks at games like WoW, EQ1, SWG and they all were made in a age of MMOs where players knew very little and the devs got to build their vision before we played it. When we saw it as a whole we made suggestions that were educated. Now we live by a different process and often many a new MMO change direction of the game even before launch to try and please players. IMO and many on this forum is the fans are as much to blame for the bad games that have come out because of our mob mentality on subjects till we force devs hands to listen.
EQN IMO have made a smart move keeping the game in a blackbox almost to release. Same with Blizzards Titan. More MMOs need to do that. Think Im wrong? How much bad press does Titan or EQN have vs anything else in development?
Make it so in 3rd person, people behind you are not visible to the player and appear as they get in front of you.
Why? This is an MMORPG I'm sorry you'll have to accept that. If you take away the traditional third person view the majority of gamers will not play. You're lucky they put in first person view at all.
First I shall say that I am a huge fan of 3rd person view in these kind of games. However I really disagree that a MMORPG has to have 3rd person view. Just because most of the games do doesn't mean that it has to have it. In fact if it was only first person view in ESO then I have to put the beer away and start to adapt to the controls of this game. If people can't adapt and even considering not playing a game just because it's lacking third person view then I am shocked on how limited you are and afraid of adapting to a systems features.
To me the most important parts are how the gameplay is not the way of the controls, even if it will prolly take me looong time to adapt, but maybe it will also bring me a new experience that I may actually end up liking. Should be said that I have not played the elder scroll series that much before. Only played skyrim for a little while until I was totally disgusted with the inventory system (that I tried to adapt to, but never got into on PC. It was working pretty good though when I played it on my friends Xbox.)
Since most MMO's heavily emphasize collecting equipment, running around in 1st person, where you cannot see your avatar's equipment, is not something most people do. Secondly, as was mentioned in the article, hard to tell someone is hitting you from behind in a MMO unless you happen to turn around noticing that your health is going down.
Personally, I usually play their games in 3rd person view, as 1st person is a bit disconcerting.
Me too I also prefer 3rd person view in many things, if they still wanted to implement first person as part of a realism thing then they could let 3rd person view be active as long you don't enter combat mode. Once you enter combat then first person mode could be activated. I guess I would prefer that much more over being forced into first person mode all the time. However as I said in a previous post...either way I will adapt
Originally posted by Fusion Invalid concerns because the game has 'soft-locking', so just shoot ABOUT there and you'll hit.
Soft-locking isn't about "shooting just about there and you'll hit". Soft-locking is to differentiate targets when they are on top of each others. You still need to have the cursor on the target(s) to hit it (the hitbox isn't as wide as some people believe). This was mentioned a while back in an Ask Us Everything about combat on the official website.
The feature might even be dropped before release anyway. Many people believe that Tera and GW2 do it better with attacks hitting the first thing they "encounter" regardless of what is targeted and that system is closer to how the Elder Scrolls games work.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle One feature I dont get why they are spending money on. 1st person works great for somethings in a MMO but not combat. This is one area TES fans did not do anything good by pushing this into production. This has taken quality dev time that could have been used on MMO content, as this is a MMO.
The devs are more to blame than the fans honestly. Fans always ask for things that are bad ideas. It's up to the Devs to be able to differentiate between good ideas that should be pushed through to make fans happy, and bad ideas that will hurt the game. It certainly doesn't bode well for the future of the game - I wonder what other silly fan requests they'll give in to. Fans don't know what they want until they see it in action and it either fails or succeeds and then two months down the line they realize it was good/bad.
If enough people demand or request the changes, they'd be stupid not to comply. These are not only the paying customers, they're the biggest part of the advertising campaign. Word of mouth has killed more than one MMO.
No they should not. We see a small % of the game design and not the whole picture. From there we start yelling what features we want without knowing, really knowing how all the parts of the MMO work together and what will happen if we get what we request. MMOs are like giant organic living games. Anything you add impacts everything else and what seem like a small change gives an entirely different outcome.
Looks at games like WoW, EQ1, SWG and they all were made in a age of MMOs where players knew very little and the devs got to build their vision before we played it. When we saw it as a whole we made suggestions that were educated. Now we live by a different process and often many a new MMO change direction of the game even before launch to try and please players. IMO and many on this forum is the fans are as much to blame for the bad games that have come out because of our mob mentality on subjects till we force devs hands to listen.
EQN IMO have made a smart move keeping the game in a blackbox almost to release. Same with Blizzards Titan. More MMOs need to do that. Think Im wrong? How much bad press does Titan or EQN have vs anything else in development?
Then what you are implying is that the developers who do see the whole picture are stupid and lack professionalism and pride in their work by complying with consumer demand? What's the point then if everyone in your book is too stupid to know what they want and what is good for the game.
I think the developers know more about what they're doing than most gamers and if they find an idea or request from the player base solid enough to implement, then they probably know exactly what they're doing and I'll take that over your biased armchair analysis any day.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle One feature I dont get why they are spending money on. 1st person works great for somethings in a MMO but not combat. This is one area TES fans did not do anything good by pushing this into production. This has taken quality dev time that could have been used on MMO content, as this is a MMO.
The devs are more to blame than the fans honestly. Fans always ask for things that are bad ideas. It's up to the Devs to be able to differentiate between good ideas that should be pushed through to make fans happy, and bad ideas that will hurt the game. It certainly doesn't bode well for the future of the game - I wonder what other silly fan requests they'll give in to. Fans don't know what they want until they see it in action and it either fails or succeeds and then two months down the line they realize it was good/bad.
If enough people demand or request the changes, they'd be stupid not to comply. These are not only the paying customers, they're the biggest part of the advertising campaign. Word of mouth has killed more than one MMO.
No they should not. We see a small % of the game design and not the whole picture. From there we start yelling what features we want without knowing, really knowing how all the parts of the MMO work together and what will happen if we get what we request. MMOs are like giant organic living games. Anything you add impacts everything else and what seem like a small change gives an entirely different outcome.
Looks at games like WoW, EQ1, SWG and they all were made in a age of MMOs where players knew very little and the devs got to build their vision before we played it. When we saw it as a whole we made suggestions that were educated. Now we live by a different process and often many a new MMO change direction of the game even before launch to try and please players. IMO and many on this forum is the fans are as much to blame for the bad games that have come out because of our mob mentality on subjects till we force devs hands to listen.
EQN IMO have made a smart move keeping the game in a blackbox almost to release. Same with Blizzards Titan. More MMOs need to do that. Think Im wrong? How much bad press does Titan or EQN have vs anything else in development?
Then what you are implying is that the developers who do see the whole picture are stupid and lack professionalism and pride in their work by complying with consumer demand? What's the point then if everyone in your book is too stupid to know what they want and what is good for the game.
I think the developers know more about what they're doing than most gamers and if they find an idea or request from the player base solid enough to implement, then they probably know exactly what they're doing and I'll take that over your biased armchair analysis any day.
ESO has been manhandled by "Fans" from the games announcement. Its been on the level I could call it mob flaming. Some things I get... this is not one of them. A new 1st person view means rebuilding the combat system from spell effects to tells to deal with getting attacked from behind and many other things. This is a HUGE undertaking. For what? Something Im guessing even the so called fans that are asking for it wont use very often once they see they are gimped playing 1st person in a MMO. So much more better things this time and money could have been spent on. Like end game systems.
I don't understand the issue, If you like first person for certain situations, use it. If you don't then stay in 3rd person. Players don't like options?
You can go in and out with a quick scroll of the wheel.
I don't understand why this is even a debate?
I agree, I think people just like to spread bad press.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
I'm not a fan of FPV and it boggles my mind why people think it's more realistic or more immersive. If everyone had 9 monitors that allowed a realistic simulation of peripheral vision and everyone had a really well-tuned surround speaker or headphone set-up and the games had much better sound localization than they actually currently do, then FPV would be worthwhile.
As it stands, even the very best FPV implementations have a limited binocular FOV. Put your hands next to your eyes to block peripheral vision. Have someone else put their hands on your forehead and the bridge of your nose... now move the front edges of all 4 hands inward a bit to restrict even some of your forward vision... that's FPV. It's a digital simulation of limited forward vision that anyone in real life would consider a handicap... add sketchy sound localization to that and you would instinctively turn your body left and right constantly to try to compensate for the missing spatial awareness...sort of like the awkward way we all play when forced to use FPV.
3rd person view may not be as "realistic" but ironically, it provides you with a sense of what is all around you that is in fact much closer to what we experience in real life with our peripheral vision and ability to localize sound.
Given the choice, I always go for 3rd person view. It feels more comfortable and my awareness feels more, not less, life-like. About the only times I use FPV is when the 3D game geometry and occlusions prevent you from seeing properly with 3rd person, with games where that's the only option (and I'm not a fan of those games) and with games like Skyrim where the 3rd person view implementation is piss-poor and makes it almost impossible to target anything more than 2 feet away from you.
Hey, but the "ESO gots to be just like the single player TES games" crowd needs this feature to feel like they're special snowflakes loved and listened to by the developer... just be careful what you ask for. Sometimes you get it and it sucks.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I just hope 1st person is not only option. I will never again play anything but 3rd person view. Then second most important ability to move avatar with both mouse buttons.
Originally posted by daltanious I just hope 1st person is not only option. I will never again play anything but 3rd person view. Then second most important ability to move avatar with both mouse buttons.
you don't have to hope.
...It is not the only option. It has both, per every single article and information about first person gameplay in eso
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
I think it's great to have both options. You can have two different experiences at your leisure if you want a better immersion and/or challenge. If you don't like one, use the other. No biggie.
Originally posted by daltanious I just hope 1st person is not only option. I will never again play anything but 3rd person view. Then second most important ability to move avatar with both mouse buttons.
you don't have to hope.
...It is not the only option. It has both, per every single article and information about first person gameplay in eso
Thanks a lot for info, because I'm really looking forward to try. And it is disaster for me with any game discovering this after spending i.e. 50€ for. Some clearly state but not all.
I wont buy ESO unless it offers both Third Person, and First Person as well as unique story content and so on.
The Graphics also do not look that great I would like it a lot of ESO would have open support for customizeable content like people do with skyrim mods.
This game is a multiplayer game in the ESO universe. Those who are here for the pvp are lucky to have anything in the game at all. The game is designed to be ESO with other players, not copy/paste pvp bullshit.
i dont see where the concern is...since the game will have both and you will be able to switch between either one...to the people that dont like the 1st person view, they will never use it, to the people that like the 1st person view, they will use it...and to the people that like both will use both..where is the concern??
Why so much whining about this? First people have to whine about the first person view NOT being in the game and then people whine about it when IT IS in the game....for christ's sake.
I take it we are all sick of the arguments for/against 1st vs. 3rd person view. I have trouble believing this article would intentionally fuel this debate YET again...
As others have said, It will have BOTH options. So both camps should be pleased. End of story. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to make the case for why their preference is better.
Comments
I maybe a minority but i LOVE the 1st person combat in skyrim if you use sword ´n´board,
i cant see myself using it very much in ESO though, but i also dont think its a "waste" of dev time to implement this, since it will still be an mmo whether is has fpw or not, and it makes alot of the series fans happy, which by all rights, is only fair!
just my thoughts.
1, lol really? It seems to me that games have "just" started this type of combat and many people do like it. How can you say "most" players when "most games have always defaulted to tab targeting. Not like they had a choice. Let's see how they actually do like it going forward. Most people didnt' like rock music when it first came out because there was nothing like it. That's changed quite a lot.
2, so a character bathed in shadows is not as believable as someone just "vanishing"?
I just can't agree with most of your post but especially these two items.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No they should not. We see a small % of the game design and not the whole picture. From there we start yelling what features we want without knowing, really knowing how all the parts of the MMO work together and what will happen if we get what we request. MMOs are like giant organic living games. Anything you add impacts everything else and what seem like a small change gives an entirely different outcome.
Looks at games like WoW, EQ1, SWG and they all were made in a age of MMOs where players knew very little and the devs got to build their vision before we played it. When we saw it as a whole we made suggestions that were educated. Now we live by a different process and often many a new MMO change direction of the game even before launch to try and please players. IMO and many on this forum is the fans are as much to blame for the bad games that have come out because of our mob mentality on subjects till we force devs hands to listen.
EQN IMO have made a smart move keeping the game in a blackbox almost to release. Same with Blizzards Titan. More MMOs need to do that. Think Im wrong? How much bad press does Titan or EQN have vs anything else in development?
First I shall say that I am a huge fan of 3rd person view in these kind of games. However I really disagree that a MMORPG has to have 3rd person view. Just because most of the games do doesn't mean that it has to have it. In fact if it was only first person view in ESO then I have to put the beer away and start to adapt to the controls of this game. If people can't adapt and even considering not playing a game just because it's lacking third person view then I am shocked on how limited you are and afraid of adapting to a systems features.
To me the most important parts are how the gameplay is not the way of the controls, even if it will prolly take me looong time to adapt, but maybe it will also bring me a new experience that I may actually end up liking. Should be said that I have not played the elder scroll series that much before. Only played skyrim for a little while until I was totally disgusted with the inventory system (that I tried to adapt to, but never got into on PC. It was working pretty good though when I played it on my friends Xbox.)
/E
Me too I also prefer 3rd person view in many things, if they still wanted to implement first person as part of a realism thing then they could let 3rd person view be active as long you don't enter combat mode. Once you enter combat then first person mode could be activated. I guess I would prefer that much more over being forced into first person mode all the time. However as I said in a previous post...either way I will adapt
Soft-locking isn't about "shooting just about there and you'll hit". Soft-locking is to differentiate targets when they are on top of each others. You still need to have the cursor on the target(s) to hit it (the hitbox isn't as wide as some people believe). This was mentioned a while back in an Ask Us Everything about combat on the official website.
The feature might even be dropped before release anyway. Many people believe that Tera and GW2 do it better with attacks hitting the first thing they "encounter" regardless of what is targeted and that system is closer to how the Elder Scrolls games work.
Then what you are implying is that the developers who do see the whole picture are stupid and lack professionalism and pride in their work by complying with consumer demand? What's the point then if everyone in your book is too stupid to know what they want and what is good for the game.
I think the developers know more about what they're doing than most gamers and if they find an idea or request from the player base solid enough to implement, then they probably know exactly what they're doing and I'll take that over your biased armchair analysis any day.
ESO has been manhandled by "Fans" from the games announcement. Its been on the level I could call it mob flaming. Some things I get... this is not one of them. A new 1st person view means rebuilding the combat system from spell effects to tells to deal with getting attacked from behind and many other things. This is a HUGE undertaking. For what? Something Im guessing even the so called fans that are asking for it wont use very often once they see they are gimped playing 1st person in a MMO. So much more better things this time and money could have been spent on. Like end game systems.
I agree, I think people just like to spread bad press.
I'm not a fan of FPV and it boggles my mind why people think it's more realistic or more immersive. If everyone had 9 monitors that allowed a realistic simulation of peripheral vision and everyone had a really well-tuned surround speaker or headphone set-up and the games had much better sound localization than they actually currently do, then FPV would be worthwhile.
As it stands, even the very best FPV implementations have a limited binocular FOV. Put your hands next to your eyes to block peripheral vision. Have someone else put their hands on your forehead and the bridge of your nose... now move the front edges of all 4 hands inward a bit to restrict even some of your forward vision... that's FPV. It's a digital simulation of limited forward vision that anyone in real life would consider a handicap... add sketchy sound localization to that and you would instinctively turn your body left and right constantly to try to compensate for the missing spatial awareness...sort of like the awkward way we all play when forced to use FPV.
3rd person view may not be as "realistic" but ironically, it provides you with a sense of what is all around you that is in fact much closer to what we experience in real life with our peripheral vision and ability to localize sound.
Given the choice, I always go for 3rd person view. It feels more comfortable and my awareness feels more, not less, life-like. About the only times I use FPV is when the 3D game geometry and occlusions prevent you from seeing properly with 3rd person, with games where that's the only option (and I'm not a fan of those games) and with games like Skyrim where the 3rd person view implementation is piss-poor and makes it almost impossible to target anything more than 2 feet away from you.
Hey, but the "ESO gots to be just like the single player TES games" crowd needs this feature to feel like they're special snowflakes loved and listened to by the developer... just be careful what you ask for. Sometimes you get it and it sucks.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
you don't have to hope.
...It is not the only option. It has both, per every single article and information about first person gameplay in eso
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
I never play MMOs in first person. It's great for single player games.
It's good that they have it optional, though I doubt I will play it that way.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
I think it's great to have both options. You can have two different experiences at your leisure if you want a better immersion and/or challenge. If you don't like one, use the other. No biggie.
Thanks a lot for info, because I'm really looking forward to try. And it is disaster for me with any game discovering this after spending i.e. 50€ for. Some clearly state but not all.
I wont buy ESO unless it offers both Third Person, and First Person as well as unique story content and so on.
The Graphics also do not look that great I would like it a lot of ESO would have open support for customizeable content like people do with skyrim mods.
This game is a multiplayer game in the ESO universe. Those who are here for the pvp are lucky to have anything in the game at all. The game is designed to be ESO with other players, not copy/paste pvp bullshit.
All I get from reading this, is a big fat QQ.
Why so much whining about this? First people have to whine about the first person view NOT being in the game and then people whine about it when IT IS in the game....for christ's sake.
Agreed.
First Person.. Third Person.. Who Cares, play it how you want to.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
I take it we are all sick of the arguments for/against 1st vs. 3rd person view. I have trouble believing this article would intentionally fuel this debate YET again...
As others have said, It will have BOTH options. So both camps should be pleased. End of story. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to make the case for why their preference is better.