Why even risk to be ganked if you don't like it? Personally i quit UO before even beta ends partly because of FFA ow pvp (and partly the combat wasn't fun, and i need to click on rocks a lot if i want to level mining).
Because people enjoy organic gameplay that is community driven. It's more interesting to have somebody save you or avenge you than it is to just simply flip a switch and be invulnerable to player damage.
Obviously not by many players. Otherwise, why would themepark with zero pvp with a lot of solo-oriented content be popular?
In fact, just keeping track of who i need to revenge upon when i log in is a chore. It is much more entertaining just to run a new pve dungeon.
Originally posted by Venger This did happen in UO. There were anti-pk guilds. Problem is there were no tools to help them. Also there was very little true reward for doing it. But then if you start offering anti-pks rewards then a group of friends will play both sides against the middle.
I've made this exact point so many times. UO was already a ffa ow pvp with full loot game and still the vast majority of the people you ran into in the wild were "blue" and wouldn't attack you. I played on a free server that had an irc channel and if you ever got ganked in a dungeon, you could go to the IRC channel and mention it and there would be a dozen blue faction members there in no time to wipe out the pk's. I can't imagine how it would've worked if they were given the tools to do so.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
Originally posted by Venger This did happen in UO. There were anti-pk guilds. Problem is there were no tools to help them. Also there was very little true reward for doing it. But then if you start offering anti-pks rewards then a group of friends will play both sides against the middle.
I've made this exact point so many times. UO was already a ffa ow pvp with full loot game and still the vast majority of the people you ran into in the wild were "blue" and wouldn't attack you. I played on a free server that had an irc channel and if you ever got ganked in a dungeon, you could go to the IRC channel and mention it and there would be a dozen blue faction members there in no time to wipe out the pk's. I can't imagine how it would've worked if they were given the tools to do so.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
And thats one of those reason why these systems are needed even more.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
You can already play police in any MMORPG with FFA PvP. Just do it. It already happens. There is even police in theme parks like WoW, when high levels come to defend their lower level players when attacked by the opposite faction.
Yes, but 'measured response' is lost on everyone. War Crimes? Rules of Engagement? (Ha. Hahahahahahaha, our games are 'realistic', yo.)
And assume a voluntary role not issued to us by the system? What are we, (spit) roleplayers?!
'Consequence' and 'Action PvP' are antonyms.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Cops ====> arrest ====> Jail ====> criminals forced to do manual labor in jail ======> Jail work ===> degrading or deprogressing character development, like -% experience or deLevel after each hoour in the jail.
this way PK'ers will eventualy fall behind from the rest of the player base if they keep up their evil deeds and their character progress comes to a stop
something similar to a Penalty box
no one wants to see their character degrading in front of their eyes while they cant do anything about it. well this would work only when the gameplay would actualy have some depth to it, so much that players actualy care about their characters.
here is an idea the jailed players could fight against themselves and each time a criminal kills another the degrading rate slows down for him, but those who die it actualy speeds up.
top dogs and under dogs
of course they would be wearing the striped prison uniform and not their actual gear.
well these are just shallow thoughts from the top of my head so dont take it seriously if you dont feel like it
Cops ====> arrest ====> Jail ====> criminals forced to do manual labor in jail ======> Jail work ===> degrading or deprogressing character development, like -% experience or deLevel after each hoour in the jail.
this way PK'ers will eventualy fall behind from the rest of the player base if they keep up their evil deeds and their character progress comes to a stop
something similar to a Penalty box
no one wants to see their character degrading in front of their eyes while they cant do anything about it. well this would work only when the gameplay would actualy have some depth to it, so much that players actualy care about their characters.
here is an idea the jailed players could fight against themselves and each time a criminal kills another the degrading rate slows down for him, but those who die it actualy speeds up.
top dogs and under dogs
of course they would be wearing the striped prison uniform and not their actual gear.
well these are just shallow thoughts from the top of my head so dont take it seriously if you dont feel like it
wearing jail gears instead of ur actual gears....ahaahha +1 for creative
I have seen it done in many mmos. Guilds saying in zone or world chat "if you are getting ganked PM us we will help" Especially in sandbox games where people RP as vigilantes.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Originally posted by Venger This did happen in UO. There were anti-pk guilds. Problem is there were no tools to help them. Also there was very little true reward for doing it. But then if you start offering anti-pks rewards then a group of friends will play both sides against the middle.
I've made this exact point so many times. UO was already a ffa ow pvp with full loot game and still the vast majority of the people you ran into in the wild were "blue" and wouldn't attack you. I played on a free server that had an irc channel and if you ever got ganked in a dungeon, you could go to the IRC channel and mention it and there would be a dozen blue faction members there in no time to wipe out the pk's. I can't imagine how it would've worked if they were given the tools to do so.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
And thats one of those reason why these systems are needed even more.
Sorry but there is no magic bullet. Hell we can't stop this kind of craft in the real world where a person could be really executed or places in jail for the rest of their life. How are you going to make this work in a online world where avatars are disposable.
"Police" as a realistic regulatory mechanism in FFA PvP games is an idea which I have been suggesting myself as well.
However, for it to be effective in the regulation of the amount of PvP by which I mean to actually reduce it to reasonable level, it has to be accompanied by additional mechanisms as the pure existence of police would not be strong enough.
Support it by mechanism which makes PK have a reasonable chance to drop part of their gear once cought and / or killed by the "police" and you have an effective realistic regulatory mechanism which is much more suitable for virtual world than disallowing FFA PvP which simply does not make any sense.
Easy.
Police force gets free gear/items etc. and a paycheck. They get taken out by a bandit/pirate, their loss is just time/inconvenience.
If you are talking like EvE for a reference, 100% insurance reimbursement on ships and their modules/ammo lost during police actions. Maybe also Police can't be podded, PKs can still be podded.
PK gets taken out by police, items loss, time debuff, taken out too many times in a short time span get jail time, xp loss, etc.
You HAVE to make it unfair, and make it unfair for the PK.
The police get ALL the advantages, except that they are generally reactionary - they respond to and have to hunt down the bandit/pirate, so bandit/pirate has the initiative.
Yes, you have to give the police some sort of advantage but it can't be too extreme. If being a criminal has no perks and very few players choose that game play style then what do the police do all day? Their game will get boring too. The police and the criminals need each other for the game to be fun.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by Venger This did happen in UO. There were anti-pk guilds. Problem is there were no tools to help them. Also there was very little true reward for doing it. But then if you start offering anti-pks rewards then a group of friends will play both sides against the middle.
I've made this exact point so many times. UO was already a ffa ow pvp with full loot game and still the vast majority of the people you ran into in the wild were "blue" and wouldn't attack you. I played on a free server that had an irc channel and if you ever got ganked in a dungeon, you could go to the IRC channel and mention it and there would be a dozen blue faction members there in no time to wipe out the pk's. I can't imagine how it would've worked if they were given the tools to do so.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
And thats one of those reason why these systems are needed even more.
Sorry but there is no magic bullet. Hell we can't stop this kind of craft in the real world where a person could be really executed or places in jail for the rest of their life. How are you going to make this work in a online world where avatars are disposable.
1st.victims dont really die in mmos either,they dont go to hospital for months or get whatever therapy.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Originally posted by Holophonist Originally posted by Venger This did happen in UO. There were anti-pk guilds. Problem is there were no tools to help them. Also there was very little true reward for doing it. But then if you start offering anti-pks rewards then a group of friends will play both sides against the middle.
I've made this exact point so many times. UO was already a ffa ow pvp with full loot game and still the vast majority of the people you ran into in the wild were "blue" and wouldn't attack you. I played on a free server that had an irc channel and if you ever got ganked in a dungeon, you could go to the IRC channel and mention it and there would be a dozen blue faction members there in no time to wipe out the pk's. I can't imagine how it would've worked if they were given the tools to do so.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
You can say that but the fact is it hasn't really been tried yet. UO had anti pk guilds with fast reaction time, and that was with very little incentive. I'm not sure why you assume it can't be done.
Exploits are easily dealt with, depending on the system. For instance, you could have a bail system with bounty hunters so the money comes from the pk himself.
Yes, you have to give the police some sort of advantage but it can't be too extreme. If being a criminal has no perks and very few players choose that game play style then what do the police do all day? Their game will get boring too. The police and the criminals need each other for the game to be fun.
That's the fundamantal problem with the entire concept. If we make the police vs criminals thing fun then it is no different from kids playing "cops and robbers". You just make it another side game to play and it becomes not much different than "capture the flag". If you want to have a more realistic police in the game then you cannot make it "fun". If you have "fun" police then it cannot be effective in actually stopping crimes because that would put it out of business.
If you want to really police ganking and griefing in a MMORPG then you simply disable non-consentual PvP. Anything else is just creating another min-game for the gankers and griefers to engage in.
Originally posted by DSWBeef I have seen it done in many mmos. Guilds saying in zone or world chat "if you are getting ganked PM us we will help" Especially in sandbox games where people RP as vigilantes.
That's why "smart" gankers/griefers use tactics like these:
Kill a few lower level or easy targets, then run away a bit before the "vigilantes" arrive and log out. Result, they have looted you dry and the vigilantes can do nothing.
That's what i don't like about most OW FFA PVP i was play.
They can kill , loot and get away easy while people get hard time hunt them down.
and
Heck , Reds come back full power as soon as they get slayed , some game they even can enter safe zone like they house where you can't attack them.
Take ages to slay them one time and they come back in a second like nothing happen.
Originally posted by DSWBeef I have seen it done in many mmos. Guilds saying in zone or world chat "if you are getting ganked PM us we will help" Especially in sandbox games where people RP as vigilantes.
That's why "smart" gankers/griefers use tactics like these:
Kill a few lower level or easy targets, then run away a bit before the "vigilantes" arrive and log out. Result, they have looted you dry and the vigilantes can do nothing.
That's what i don't like about most OW FFA PVP i was play.
They can kill , loot and get away easy while people get hard time hunt them down.
and
Heck , Reds come back full power as soon as they get slayed , some game they even can enter safe zone like they house where you can't attack them.
Take ages to slay them one time and they come back in a second like nothing happen.
Wushu turns everything you know about FFA worlds on it's head. No safe zone, player policed CIVIL FFA world.
If SnailGames and Wushu have done it. There is absolutely no reason or excuse for our cherished Western Devs, not to do it.
Originally posted by DSWBeef I have seen it done in many mmos. Guilds saying in zone or world chat "if you are getting ganked PM us we will help" Especially in sandbox games where people RP as vigilantes.
That's why "smart" gankers/griefers use tactics like these:
Kill a few lower level or easy targets, then run away a bit before the "vigilantes" arrive and log out. Result, they have looted you dry and the vigilantes can do nothing.
That's what i don't like about most OW FFA PVP i was play.
They can kill , loot and get away easy while people get hard time hunt them down.
and
Heck , Reds come back full power as soon as they get slayed , some game they even can enter safe zone like they house where you can't attack them.
Take ages to slay them one time and they come back in a second like nothing happen.
Wushu turns everything you know about FFA worlds on it's head. No safe zone, player policed CIVIL FFA world.
If SnailGames and Wushu have done it. There is absolutely no reason or excuse for our cherished Western Devs, not to do it.
It's all "eye of the beholder" stuff. Personally I would not consider a game where other players can forcefully castrate your character to be "civil FFA".
It all comes down to what levels of non-cosensual PvP you consider acceptable. My tolerances are really low and a PvP game that would suit me would be unacceptable to a lot of the people playing FFA PvP games. As such I do not play FFA PvP games. In contrast some players consider EVE's Concord system to be draconian.
1st.victims dont really die in mmos either,they dont go to hospital for months or get whatever therapy.
That's a nice side step but you didn't answer the question. In a world where your avatar is disposable how will you keep criminal from running rampant? How do you keep people from exploiting the grey area so much that the game becomes un-playable?
Your excuse above doesn't fly either, because I don't know about you but I have way more going in my life then games. So what time I do get to play is precious to me.
Yes, you have to give the police some sort of advantage but it can't be too extreme. If being a criminal has no perks and very few players choose that game play style then what do the police do all day? Their game will get boring too. The police and the criminals need each other for the game to be fun.
That's the fundamantal problem with the entire concept. If we make the police vs criminals thing fun then it is no different from kids playing "cops and robbers". You just make it another side game to play and it becomes not much different than "capture the flag". If you want to have a more realistic police in the game then you cannot make it "fun". If you have "fun" police then it cannot be effective in actually stopping crimes because that would put it out of business.
If you want to really police ganking and griefing in a MMORPG then you simply disable non-consentual PvP. Anything else is just creating another min-game for the gankers and griefers to engage in.
It can be done. And the police can have advantages. Point is, the main game from the criminal is not to fight against police, they will try to avoid it. And in a sandbox game you don't have to be only police. If there is no criminal to hunt, do something else. And it can be extremely punishing for criminals, because it is either not the only kind of pvp, nor even the main kind of pvp.
You will always have Guild/Clan Wars, Faction Wars or other kind of pvp, which will not be punished, and not be marked as criminals as some random pkers will be.
Another point is.. almost no game really tried such a concept in the past, or just added it half-assed afterwards. And as much as i have heard it actually works in Age of Wushu.
And to quote myself:
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Having players themselves decide to take on the role of cop IMO doesn't work. There would be too many times where the perons(s) were either not on, or were doing something else in game and couldn't be bothered to go to the rescue.
I would say do one of 2 things:
1. Hire an NPC to act as a cop
or better yet
2. Have police be an actual role in the game with it's own rewards and experiences for catching the bad guy. That would actually be kinda fun I think.
Yeah.. it have to be a own role. With own rewards and experiences. Like tracking down criminals. Like investigate a crime scene. With mechanics to support that. Like government (NPC or Player) do set up laws, pay regular bounties on criminals. And so on.
And the criminal, which are caught, have to pay. They have to finance the system. Like gathering resources in jail, or crafting stuff in jail, or whatever. So you can bring the bounty in depenence with punishment... every criminal have to work off at least twice of the bounty on his head(or something similar).. one part get refunded to the initial contributor(government or player or both) and the other part is just a additional tax for the city/nation to have a further incentive to have law enforcement.
Police/Bounty Hunter will get paid from the bounty, which would be finally get paid from the criminals himself.
You could do really a lot of interesting and fun stuff with such a system.
And if you do have a working criminal system you can easily add some other criminal stuff, like thievery, like burglary, like robbery and so on.
And i don't see anything wrong that the criminals will have the harder life.. they have choosen to be criminals.. so really it is on their part.
It is just a pity not enough developers have already intensively played with different mechanics like that.. and most have gone the easy(and in my opinion) and boring way to just take it out of the game. I can't really remember the last well thought out thief system. UO was maybe the last.. and as much as i can remember it was never a really working system.. as the foundry the criminal system never really worked in UO.
To paraphrase it:
- bounty hunter licence to have visible reputation of your done work (for cops, bounty hunter)
- bounty will be set from the local government(player based or npc based) and with additional optional fee's from players
- criminal, if caught, have to go to jail and work of twice of the amount on his head... withit the length of his prison time depends of how many crimes he has commited(more bounty on his head usually comes down to more crimes)
- cop/bounty hunter gets the bounty
- bounty will refunded to the original donator, and the second part can be seen as another form of tax for the local government, or to further equip bounty hunters/cops
- everyone will turn into NPC if logged out.. so no escape with logging of for criminals (as it is done in Age of Wushu)
- different additional gameplay mechanics to help out cops/bounty hunter, like tracking, like crime scene investigation and so on
- with a working criminal system, you can add further criminal game mechanics like thievery, like burglary
And i think there would be a lot more mechanics to help it out, and to make it fun.
Originally posted by Venger This did happen in UO. There were anti-pk guilds. Problem is there were no tools to help them. Also there was very little true reward for doing it. But then if you start offering anti-pks rewards then a group of friends will play both sides against the middle.
I've made this exact point so many times. UO was already a ffa ow pvp with full loot game and still the vast majority of the people you ran into in the wild were "blue" and wouldn't attack you. I played on a free server that had an irc channel and if you ever got ganked in a dungeon, you could go to the IRC channel and mention it and there would be a dozen blue faction members there in no time to wipe out the pk's. I can't imagine how it would've worked if they were given the tools to do so.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
You can say that but the fact is it hasn't really been tried yet. UO had anti pk guilds with fast reaction time, and that was with very little incentive. I'm not sure why you assume it can't be done.
Exploits are easily dealt with, depending on the system. For instance, you could have a bail system with bounty hunters so the money comes from the pk himself.
I don't know what UO you were playing. I guess our definition of fast are quite different. Well I believe it can't be done because unless you have a stupid pk or anti-pk just sitting waiting to be summoned directly to a kill the pker would be long gone before anyone would have a chance to get there. I mean come on really this is not different then cops and robbers in real life. Also if I become the developers "content" then shouldn't I be compensated?
Exploits are easily dealt with? Really? The entire lawyer profession is based around exploiting the grey area between right and wrong. You think some computer system will be able to nail it?
So in your mmo as long as you are wealthy can can get away with what ever you want. Sign me up for that. What do you do with the pkers that are broke? Perma-death? What about blue character funneling funds to red characters? Do they become red?
Yes, you have to give the police some sort of advantage but it can't be too extreme. If being a criminal has no perks and very few players choose that game play style then what do the police do all day? Their game will get boring too. The police and the criminals need each other for the game to be fun.
That's the fundamantal problem with the entire concept. If we make the police vs criminals thing fun then it is no different from kids playing "cops and robbers". You just make it another side game to play and it becomes not much different than "capture the flag". If you want to have a more realistic police in the game then you cannot make it "fun". If you have "fun" police then it cannot be effective in actually stopping crimes because that would put it out of business.
If you want to really police ganking and griefing in a MMORPG then you simply disable non-consentual PvP. Anything else is just creating another min-game for the gankers and griefers to engage in.
It can be done. And the police can have advantages. Point is, the main game from the criminal is not to fight against police, they will try to avoid it. And in a sandbox game you don't have to be only police. If there is no criminal to hunt, do something else. And it can be extremely punishing for criminals, because it is either not the only kind of pvp, nor even the main kind of pvp.
You will always have Guild/Clan Wars, Faction Wars or other kind of pvp, which will not be punished, and not be marked as criminals as some random pkers will be.
Another point is.. almost no game really tried such a concept in the past, or just added it half-assed afterwards. And as much as i have heard it actually works in Age of Wushu.
Why jump through all these hoops and add extra rules if all you really want is guild / faction based consensual PvP?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Wushu turns everything you know about FFA worlds on it's head. No safe zone, player policed CIVIL FFA world.
If SnailGames and Wushu have done it. There is absolutely no reason or excuse for our cherished Western Devs, not to do it.
That is why i don't play Wushu.
And yes, there is a reason. Not big enough of an audience. Is Wushu becoming big here in the US? When it is bigger than GW2, heck, or even Eve, may be devs will take a little notice.
Because it adds more options. The game world feel more alive. And who said, that i didn't want to play as a cop or even as criminal.
All i said, it is not the only way of pvp.. because i have to agree, if it would be the only pvp option in a pvp game it will be lacking.. or would not fill the role that it should have filled up in the first place.
But you are right.. we all should play pong.. why all the different mechanics, why all so complicated. BECAUSE it is fun.
Because it adds more options. The game world feel more alive. And who said, that i didn't want to play as a cop or even as criminal.
All i said, it is not the only way of pvp.. because i have to agree, if it would be the only pvp option in a pvp game it will be lacking.. or would not fill the role that it should have filled up in the first place.
But you are right.. we all should play pong.. why all the different mechanics, why all so complicated. BECAUSE it is fun.
It adds pointless options. If a game allows you to be a criminal then it should serve a purpose and be a viable career path (albeit more difficult). If the game makes the penalties so harsh and the rules so restrictive for being a criminal then there's no point in adding it in the first place.
That last sentence is reductio ad absurdum at it's worst.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Because it adds more options. The game world feel more alive. And who said, that i didn't want to play as a cop or even as criminal.
All i said, it is not the only way of pvp.. because i have to agree, if it would be the only pvp option in a pvp game it will be lacking.. or would not fill the role that it should have filled up in the first place.
But you are right.. we all should play pong.. why all the different mechanics, why all so complicated. BECAUSE it is fun.
It adds pointless options. If a game allows you to be a criminal then it should serve a purpose and be a viable career path (albeit more difficult). If the game makes the penalties so harsh and the rules so restrictive for being a criminal then there's no point in adding it in the first place.
That last sentence is reductio ad absurdum at it's worst.
It is a viable career path, it just is more difficult, and more punishing. Damn.. back in the days we had some harder punishments for just playing normal. Did you even read the mechanics? And to work of twice the bounty on your head is really not that much of a punishment. The criminal will feel it, and not every wannabe will do it twice. But thats the point of it.
1st.victims dont really die in mmos either,they dont go to hospital for months or get whatever therapy.
That's a nice side step but you didn't answer the question. In a world where your avatar is disposable how will you keep criminal from running rampant? How do you keep people from exploiting the grey area so much that the game becomes un-playable?
Your excuse above doesn't fly either, because I don't know about you but I have way more going in my life then games. So what time I do get to play is precious to me.
how to keep criminals from running rampart.
Police radio :24:42:42 Minsc . lvl 5 . human . ranger . Guild: Berzerkers attacked XxImomyournoob666xX lvl 45 . undead . rogue . guild : STuFNoObLoL area Marren Till. coords 442.442. [other people in the same zone : list ]
thats the place to start for example,in game instant messages.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Comments
Yeah sure.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
And thats one of those reason why these systems are needed even more.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Yes, but 'measured response' is lost on everyone. War Crimes? Rules of Engagement? (Ha. Hahahahahahaha, our games are 'realistic', yo.)
And assume a voluntary role not issued to us by the system? What are we, (spit) roleplayers?!
'Consequence' and 'Action PvP' are antonyms.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Cops ====> arrest ====> Jail ====> criminals forced to do manual labor in jail ======> Jail work ===> degrading or deprogressing character development, like -% experience or deLevel after each hoour in the jail.
this way PK'ers will eventualy fall behind from the rest of the player base if they keep up their evil deeds and their character progress comes to a stop
something similar to a Penalty box
no one wants to see their character degrading in front of their eyes while they cant do anything about it. well this would work only when the gameplay would actualy have some depth to it, so much that players actualy care about their characters.
here is an idea the jailed players could fight against themselves and each time a criminal kills another the degrading rate slows down for him, but those who die it actualy speeds up.
top dogs and under dogs
of course they would be wearing the striped prison uniform and not their actual gear.
well these are just shallow thoughts from the top of my head so dont take it seriously if you dont feel like it
wearing jail gears instead of ur actual gears....ahaahha +1 for creative
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Sorry but there is no magic bullet. Hell we can't stop this kind of craft in the real world where a person could be really executed or places in jail for the rest of their life. How are you going to make this work in a online world where avatars are disposable.
Yes, you have to give the police some sort of advantage but it can't be too extreme. If being a criminal has no perks and very few players choose that game play style then what do the police do all day? Their game will get boring too. The police and the criminals need each other for the game to be fun.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
1st.victims dont really die in mmos either,they dont go to hospital for months or get whatever therapy.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I've made this exact point so many times. UO was already a ffa ow pvp with full loot game and still the vast majority of the people you ran into in the wild were "blue" and wouldn't attack you. I played on a free server that had an irc channel and if you ever got ganked in a dungeon, you could go to the IRC channel and mention it and there would be a dozen blue faction members there in no time to wipe out the pk's. I can't imagine how it would've worked if they were given the tools to do so.
I'm not against ffa pvp in theory. I just don't think it will ever work in a mmo world application. Hope is not a plan and hoping someone will show up to help you that has no requirement to do so is not a good solution. Plus you would end up with corrupt cops working with criminals to get rewarded on both ends. People trying to get hit by your aoe spells/abilities just to turn you grey (uo term) so they can freely kill you.
Sorry but in the world of douche baggy lawyer mentality where everyone tries to exploit the grey between right and wrong it would be an impossible to create a system that would work.
You can say that but the fact is it hasn't really been tried yet. UO had anti pk guilds with fast reaction time, and that was with very little incentive. I'm not sure why you assume it can't be done.Exploits are easily dealt with, depending on the system. For instance, you could have a bail system with bounty hunters so the money comes from the pk himself.
That's the fundamantal problem with the entire concept. If we make the police vs criminals thing fun then it is no different from kids playing "cops and robbers". You just make it another side game to play and it becomes not much different than "capture the flag". If you want to have a more realistic police in the game then you cannot make it "fun". If you have "fun" police then it cannot be effective in actually stopping crimes because that would put it out of business.
If you want to really police ganking and griefing in a MMORPG then you simply disable non-consentual PvP. Anything else is just creating another min-game for the gankers and griefers to engage in.
That's what i don't like about most OW FFA PVP i was play.
They can kill , loot and get away easy while people get hard time hunt them down.
and
Heck , Reds come back full power as soon as they get slayed , some game they even can enter safe zone like they house where you can't attack them.
Take ages to slay them one time and they come back in a second like nothing happen.
Wushu turns everything you know about FFA worlds on it's head. No safe zone, player policed CIVIL FFA world.
If SnailGames and Wushu have done it. There is absolutely no reason or excuse for our cherished Western Devs, not to do it.
It's all "eye of the beholder" stuff. Personally I would not consider a game where other players can forcefully castrate your character to be "civil FFA".
It all comes down to what levels of non-cosensual PvP you consider acceptable. My tolerances are really low and a PvP game that would suit me would be unacceptable to a lot of the people playing FFA PvP games. As such I do not play FFA PvP games. In contrast some players consider EVE's Concord system to be draconian.
That's a nice side step but you didn't answer the question. In a world where your avatar is disposable how will you keep criminal from running rampant? How do you keep people from exploiting the grey area so much that the game becomes un-playable?
Your excuse above doesn't fly either, because I don't know about you but I have way more going in my life then games. So what time I do get to play is precious to me.
It can be done. And the police can have advantages. Point is, the main game from the criminal is not to fight against police, they will try to avoid it. And in a sandbox game you don't have to be only police. If there is no criminal to hunt, do something else. And it can be extremely punishing for criminals, because it is either not the only kind of pvp, nor even the main kind of pvp.
You will always have Guild/Clan Wars, Faction Wars or other kind of pvp, which will not be punished, and not be marked as criminals as some random pkers will be.
Another point is.. almost no game really tried such a concept in the past, or just added it half-assed afterwards. And as much as i have heard it actually works in Age of Wushu.
And to quote myself:
To paraphrase it:
- bounty hunter licence to have visible reputation of your done work (for cops, bounty hunter)
- bounty will be set from the local government(player based or npc based) and with additional optional fee's from players
- criminal, if caught, have to go to jail and work of twice of the amount on his head... withit the length of his prison time depends of how many crimes he has commited(more bounty on his head usually comes down to more crimes)
- cop/bounty hunter gets the bounty
- bounty will refunded to the original donator, and the second part can be seen as another form of tax for the local government, or to further equip bounty hunters/cops
- everyone will turn into NPC if logged out.. so no escape with logging of for criminals (as it is done in Age of Wushu)
- different additional gameplay mechanics to help out cops/bounty hunter, like tracking, like crime scene investigation and so on
- with a working criminal system, you can add further criminal game mechanics like thievery, like burglary
And i think there would be a lot more mechanics to help it out, and to make it fun.
I don't know what UO you were playing. I guess our definition of fast are quite different. Well I believe it can't be done because unless you have a stupid pk or anti-pk just sitting waiting to be summoned directly to a kill the pker would be long gone before anyone would have a chance to get there. I mean come on really this is not different then cops and robbers in real life. Also if I become the developers "content" then shouldn't I be compensated?
Exploits are easily dealt with? Really? The entire lawyer profession is based around exploiting the grey area between right and wrong. You think some computer system will be able to nail it?
So in your mmo as long as you are wealthy can can get away with what ever you want. Sign me up for that. What do you do with the pkers that are broke? Perma-death? What about blue character funneling funds to red characters? Do they become red?
Why jump through all these hoops and add extra rules if all you really want is guild / faction based consensual PvP?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
That is why i don't play Wushu.
And yes, there is a reason. Not big enough of an audience. Is Wushu becoming big here in the US? When it is bigger than GW2, heck, or even Eve, may be devs will take a little notice.
@dave..
Because it adds more options. The game world feel more alive. And who said, that i didn't want to play as a cop or even as criminal.
All i said, it is not the only way of pvp.. because i have to agree, if it would be the only pvp option in a pvp game it will be lacking.. or would not fill the role that it should have filled up in the first place.
But you are right.. we all should play pong.. why all the different mechanics, why all so complicated. BECAUSE it is fun.
It adds pointless options. If a game allows you to be a criminal then it should serve a purpose and be a viable career path (albeit more difficult). If the game makes the penalties so harsh and the rules so restrictive for being a criminal then there's no point in adding it in the first place.
That last sentence is reductio ad absurdum at it's worst.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
It is a viable career path, it just is more difficult, and more punishing. Damn.. back in the days we had some harder punishments for just playing normal. Did you even read the mechanics? And to work of twice the bounty on your head is really not that much of a punishment. The criminal will feel it, and not every wannabe will do it twice. But thats the point of it.
how to keep criminals from running rampart.
Police radio :24:42:42 Minsc . lvl 5 . human . ranger . Guild: Berzerkers attacked XxImomyournoob666xX lvl 45 . undead . rogue . guild : STuFNoObLoL area Marren Till. coords 442.442. [other people in the same zone : list ]
thats the place to start for example,in game instant messages.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
having consensual pvp is a much simpler, and more effective solution.