I think some of it is generational. People over 40 will be the last generation in human history to have spent their early years without computers and hand held devices of various kinds. Different sets of social skills - or lack thereof - are coming into play.
Actually I just spent a substantial amount of time explaining to you where your problem stems from and how you can effectively solve it; obviously free of charge and with no prospect of any monetary or other gain in the future. Someone might even think that I was trying to help you... which kinda invalidates your insult. Anything else you want to tell me for my effort? Am I eating kids or something?
I feel sorry for you, because, regardless of your efforts, your pretense of decency will only be a pretense.
Originally posted by Ehliya I think some of it is generational. People over 40 will be the last generation in human history to have spent their early years without computers and hand held devices of various kinds. Different sets of social skills - or lack thereof - are coming into play.
I'm 44 and have lived the whole home computer and Internet revolution.
If you want people who spent their early days without computers, you'll have to look at 55+ if not older.
I guess it depends on where you grew up and what your family situation was. Not everyone got computers right away.
I didn't read all the responses as some of them started to escalade into personal disputes. But here's my two cents on the OP subject.
I think community is as present as it needs to be. If a game is designed to be aimed towards soloists, then why bother with the hassle of "making friends" unless it comes to you, perhaps by mistake? If a game is designed to require coop, then communities/friends will form.
My point is, we're all adapting to what's expected from us. As of recent MMOs (which I haven't played), it seems quite obvious that they're developed for the soloist audience. So I ask you this why would I Try finding friends in a game when most have individualistic agendas anyway? Take a look at EVE, it's almost expected to be part of a group (Obviously one could play alone, but that's by choice).
I'm basing this on the later years of WOW (played WotLK and that other dragon exp. after it extensively) so my view on the matter might be outdated.
Originally posted by Ehliya I think some of it is generational. People over 40 will be the last generation in human history to have spent their early years without computers and hand held devices of various kinds. Different sets of social skills - or lack thereof - are coming into play.
I'm 44 and have lived the whole home computer and Internet revolution.
If you want people who spent their early days without computers, you'll have to look at 55+ if not older.
I guess it depends on where you grew up and what your family situation was. Not everyone got computers right away.
agree - largely depends on if you have computer access or not
taking myself for example (age 51)
at highschool, we had dumb terminals hooked up the main system, the old games available were WUMPUS, ADVENT or StarTrek game (unless you count BANNER heh) -- computer programs were "fed" via computer punch hole tape
Its exactly this. I find MMORPG's so lacking compared to typical single player games or coop games. Its each to his own but these same players generally won't even contribute to the MMORPG genre either. They just burn through easy content and move on to the next free game. It's not about having facebook or whatever else to talk to people. It's about having a reason to play a game beyond the content that's always temporary and limited. The people are the unlimited content.
Yeah .. i don't play games to "contribute" to some other people's fun. I do it for my own fun. And yes, id do burn through (hopefully not easy easy) content and move on to the next (hopefully free) game.
It is a lot of entertainment and fun.
I am talking about financially as well. We have a generation of gamers who contribute nothing to the genre. Not money, not community or even much time and move on to the next game because the games are so shallow.
Games are entertainment. There is no contribution, only transaction. I certainly don't buy any games to contribute to anything. I buy a game if i like it. It is a trade. The devs (and publisher) got my money, i got fun. So no .. games are not charity. I do not contribute financially, or otherwise, to them. If i pay anything, it is a transaction, just like when i buy a bottle of red wine.
And you are attributing the wrong reason for why people move onto the next game. It is because people like variety. Civ is a deep game. The original Xcom is a deep game. There are plenty of deep games. I "moved on" after playing them for a while. MMOs are no different.
Actually I just spent a substantial amount of time explaining to you where your problem stems from and how you can effectively solve it; obviously free of charge and with no prospect of any monetary or other gain in the future. Someone might even think that I was trying to help you... which kinda invalidates your insult. Anything else you want to tell me for my effort? Am I eating kids or something?
I feel sorry for you, because, regardless of your efforts, your pretense of decency will only be a pretense.
Pretended decency is better than repeated unwarranted insults.
Originally posted by Vermillion_RaventhalIts exactly this. I find MMORPG's so lacking compared to typical single player games or coop games. Its each to his own but these same players generally won't even contribute to the MMORPG genre either. They just burn through easy content and move on to the next free game. It's not about having facebook or whatever else to talk to people. It's about having a reason to play a game beyond the content that's always temporary and limited. The people are the unlimited content.
Yeah .. i don't play games to "contribute" to some other people's fun. I do it for my own fun. And yes, id do burn through (hopefully not easy easy) content and move on to the next (hopefully free) game.It is a lot of entertainment and fun.
I am talking about financially as well. We have a generation of gamers who contribute nothing to the genre. Not money, not community or even much time and move on to the next game because the games are so shallow.
Someone might play one F2P game and pay, but not another F2P game. Not everyone within a generation exclusively plays F2P games. Not to mention the fact that if the entire generation did not pay for any games, at all, the games would simply cease to exist. Your statements about money aren't supportable at all.
"Community" is happening, it's just happening outside of the games, not inside the games.
**
For instance, on sites like this.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
But this is an MMO site and MMO's have their foundation is persistent world + characters + community, and the intent of most players venturing into MMO-territory is to "find a home" for a few years, and not a cheap thrilled-for-three-months experience. Game-and-genre hopping is not what MMO's are about, even though no one will argue that entertainment exists ONLY in MMO's.
If you have not notice, the foundation of MMOs have changed. The old foundation is no longer important for many players. I don't play MMOs for persistent world nor community (i do for persistent characters though) and i am having fun.
And given high churn rate of MMO players, i highly doubt most players is to "find a home" for a few years. In fact, most are staying not more than a few months.
What you think MMO is about ... is old fashion and no longer applies ... certainly not to me.
And i am quite sure i am not the only guy who game hop MMOs. There is really little you can do about this game hopping attitude.
I agree with you OP, I haven't read any replies so if I repeat something that has been said sorry.
I think there are 4 reasons to this.
1: The amount of mmo gamers from my days playing UO, DAOC, SWG, AC or w/e I was playing a decade ago to now has grown by astronomical numbers, this genre went from serving a couple hundred thousand to tens of millions, with that much of an increase in players there are going to be many many many more jerks.
2: Our game communities are sadly reflecting our RL communities which says a lot about society at least here in America, very few people in your everyday encounters in the real world act neighborly, they cut you off on the freeway, ride you butt on main street, cuss at the cashiers at the supermarket if they can't find something, and assault the employees at McDonalds for putting pickles on their burger when they didn't want it. I don't know when someone has last thanked me for opening a door for them or made eye contact with me when I pass them in a hall way, not to mention if you strike up a conversation with someone in a ticket line they think your nuts.
I could go on all day but long story short, acting as though we are part of a society is dead, this carries on to our game worlds.
3: Hurry! Sometimes I think I am the only person today not in a hurry, RL and in game, these days we are in such a rush and feel like we are so important we can't waste one second of our lives. look at how crazy people are about their cellphones for example, when I was in my late teens starting to game nobody cared if they missed a call, now days if I leave my cellphone behind I may miss a call and cost myself some valuable info that I must have now, I have no time to wait for the call I need it now! This has also carried into the gaming world. Nobody cares to or rather has time to make friends or learn stuff or waste a second on someone else, they must get to cap asap and kill Mr. king dragon immediately and you are just a temporary resource to help them achieve this.
4: Money, money, money, money, and oh ya money. Sadly I experience this everyday at work...Developers are churning out games so quickly by using reasons 1, 2, and 3 to their advantage to make more money, the quicker they can push you through a game the quicker they can release the next one ( via a new title or an xpac) and unfortunately if they make a nice warm environment for you and your friends to hang out and play in for years without a sub fee ( because nobody wants to pay a fee anymore, god forbid you help pay developers salaries for keeping your game going) they are making minimal money, so they make you pay for the next title or xpac, the only exception to this is with ftp games with micro transactions, in this case you rush to cap buying all your goodies along the way and they then need to release another game or xpac to get you to continue playing and continue buying xp boosts and potions.
All that being said, I to really miss the old communities, I really wish they would come back but unfortunately society and business these days will only become worse and will not allow that to happen. I have no hope for the future and at one time was done playing mmo's, now that they are all mostly free I play again (mostly solo because of the communities) and I am disappointed with every game I download.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 Originally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by ReallyNow10Games are kind of like transportation. Have a slow game, you have community. Have a fast-paced game, you get strangers.MMO's have to slow down and give folks a reason to coordinate efforts, in order for community to build.
Then don't build communities. Players seem to prefer fast-paced games with strangers.Plus, you can always bring your friends. Why do i need to get to know strangers if i have more than enough friends to play with?Title of the post:
"The quality of communities has dropped since WOW (a tirade)"
My answer:
such and such reasons are why
Your comment:
".....don't build communities..."
I swear, if you walked into a pizza joint, you'd order a hamburger.
"And what is wrong with ordering a hamburger at a pizza joint? If it's fun, who cares."
/end impersonation
Originally posted by Rydeson ...Some of us enjoy getting to know the people we spend time with, whether it be in an online game or golf leagues, or bowling leagues..
True, but remember some people don't play well with others.
Originally posted by Nadia ...what did video gamers do for fun? play coin-slot Arcade video games (Gauntlet, SpyHunter, Rampage, etc)
I pwned at spyhunter! Funny you brought up video games; I was minutes ago thinking arcade games had a type of death penalty that ate up your quarters and made you start over. Those who grew up on video games (not arcade), never had to spend $ when they lost the game.
Originally posted by Oham Pretended decency is better than repeated unwarranted insults.
Welcome to MMORPG.com!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I effing loved spyhunter but gauntlet was a different story, Guantlet was an addiction I spent all my weeks allowance on that cabinet, week after week.
Lets bring those kind of death penalties back lol we'd all be broke. Even back then community sucked though, you were a jerk to whoever you played with, "I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE HUNGRY WIZARD! MY FOOD!!"
Its exactly this. I find MMORPG's so lacking compared to typical single player games or coop games. Its each to his own but these same players generally won't even contribute to the MMORPG genre either. They just burn through easy content and move on to the next free game. It's not about having facebook or whatever else to talk to people. It's about having a reason to play a game beyond the content that's always temporary and limited. The people are the unlimited content.
Yeah .. i don't play games to "contribute" to some other people's fun. I do it for my own fun. And yes, id do burn through (hopefully not easy easy) content and move on to the next (hopefully free) game.
It is a lot of entertainment and fun.
I am talking about financially as well. We have a generation of gamers who contribute nothing to the genre. Not money, not community or even much time and move on to the next game because the games are so shallow.
Games are entertainment. There is no contribution, only transaction. I certainly don't buy any games to contribute to anything. I buy a game if i like it. It is a trade. The devs (and publisher) got my money, i got fun. So no .. games are not charity. I do not contribute financially, or otherwise, to them. If i pay anything, it is a transaction, just like when i buy a bottle of red wine.
And you are attributing the wrong reason for why people move onto the next game. It is because people like variety. Civ is a deep game. The original Xcom is a deep game. There are plenty of deep games. I "moved on" after playing them for a while. MMOs are no different.
The problem is evidence shows that majority of players are not giving transactions or contributions to the MMORPG genre anymore. The genre has been basically heading into one direction of casual single player gaming without catering to it's core audience because it's more profitable cater to guys with disposable incomes that will spend extraordinarily ridiculous amounts of money.
MMORPG's are not single players games designed to consumed. They're never ending trending games that are designed to be played long term. But many now are designed to consumed short term by their own flawed designs. Some are designed cash shops cheese but many of the failed games initially weren't.
The problem is evidence shows that majority of players are not giving transactions or contributions to the MMORPG genre anymore. The genre has been basically heading into one direction of casual single player gaming without catering to it's core audience because it's more profitable cater to guys with disposable incomes that will spend extraordinarily ridiculous amounts of money.
I'll say this really, really slow so you might understand it. The MMO core audience today *IS* the casual single player. Your side hasn't been the core audience of the MMO marketplace in years and are never going to be again.
MMORPG's are not single players games designed to consumed. They're never ending trending games that are designed to be played long term. But many now are designed to consumed short term by their own flawed designs. Some are designed cash shops cheese but many of the failed games initially weren't.
MMOs are whatever people who play MMOs want them to be because the people who play MMOs pay the bills for the people who develop them. If you haven't figured this out yet, it's no wonder you don't understand the issues involved.
Whatever ya'll need to prop up your hubris is ok with the rest of us.
But no amount of verbiage seems to stem the Change you've desperately been trying to stop for the last decade. Better keep your feet moving.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The problem is evidence shows that majority of players are not giving transactions or contributions to the MMORPG genre anymore. The genre has been basically heading into one direction of casual single player gaming without catering to it's core audience because it's more profitable cater to guys with disposable incomes that will spend extraordinarily ridiculous amounts of money.
I'll say this really, really slow so you might understand it. The MMO core audience today *IS* the casual single player. Your side hasn't been the core audience of the MMO marketplace in years and are never going to be again.
MMORPG's are not single players games designed to consumed. They're never ending trending games that are designed to be played long term. But many now are designed to consumed short term by their own flawed designs. Some are designed cash shops cheese but many of the failed games initially weren't.
MMOs are whatever people who play MMOs want them to be because the people who play MMOs pay the bills for the people who develop them. If you haven't figured this out yet, it's no wonder you don't understand the issues involved.
The casuals are not the core players anymore than moderates are the core of political parties in the US. Right now the core is the whales who actually prop up the genre. The games are designed around sucking money from them and are casual because developers are convinced ease and accessibility is the end all. But for the so called core every game designed casual fails to hold an audience and redesigned for whales.
MMORPGs are never ending. There are no end credits turn off the game moments. Even if they're shallow and the new ones are attempting to sell you crap as you catapult through content its still a never ending game.
MMORPG's are not single players games designed to consumed. They're never ending trending games that are designed to be played long term. But many now are designed to consumed short term by their own flawed designs. Some are designed cash shops cheese but many of the failed games initially weren't.
MMOs are whatever people who play MMOs want them to be because the people who play MMOs pay the bills for the people who develop them. If you haven't figured this out yet, it's no wonder you don't understand the issues involved.
Yeah.
In fact, i play MMOs like SP games solo. And when i "finished" the content, i move on. And that is the way i like it.
The community is bad because people no longer need each other on a significant level. Most communities are separated into different guild cliques which generally are very small and fragmented within. Everything is just a click, away..
Need an item, go to the auction house. (Granted some people still trade face to face, but this is an overwhelming minority.)
Need to run a dungeon or participate in a raid, Enter queue.
Need to level up, no problem, no reason to group or even work with other people as it'll only slow you down.
Need advice on how to do something, alt tab and google a guide.
Most of the content isn't hard enough to inspire the need to communicate with others except in normal and heroic raids. Plus you'll be done in 10-25 minutes in most five mans and you wont be likely to ever see and/or recognize them again because the community is so vast in population.
Most of these aspects are good in and of themselves but they came with the bi-product or intention of raising autonomy to an extreme level. Its at such a level where other people are often just viewed as a nuisance.. or a necessary evil. Granted part of this is what a large core of the audience does want. Many don't care about the community or a living world that people can shaped and meld.
The Massive Multiplayer element has generally boiled down to a bragging rights fest sitting in the capitol city. Look at my gear, achievements, mounts, pet etc.
Originally posted by Icewhite Whatever ya'll need to prop up your hubris is ok with the rest of us.But no amount of verbiage seems to stem the Change you've desperately been trying to stop for the last decade. Better keep your feet moving.
The community is bad because people no longer need each other on a significant level. Most communities are separated into different guild cliques which generally are very small and fragmented within. Everything is just a click, away..
Need an item, go to the auction house. (Granted some people still trade face to face, but this is an overwhelming minority.)
Need to run a dungeon or participate in a raid, Enter queue.
Need to level up, no problem, no reason to group or even work with other people as it'll only slow you down.
Need advice on how to do something, alt tab and google a guide.
Most of the content isn't hard enough to inspire the need to communicate with others except in normal and heroic raids. Plus you'll be done in 10-25 minutes in most five mans and you wont be likely to ever see and/or recognize them again because the community is so vast in population.
Most of these aspects are good in and of themselves but they came with the bi-product or intention of raising autonomy to an extreme level. Its at such a level where other people are often just viewed as a nuisance.. or a necessary evil. Granted part of this is what a large core of the audience does want. Many don't care about the community or a living world that people can shaped and meld.
The Massive Multiplayer element has generally boiled down to a bragging rights fest sitting in the capitol city. Look at my gear, achievements, mounts, pet etc.
Just my 2 cents.
Yeah .. and this is the way most players prefer. May be many think bragging is more fun than needing someone else for your dungeon run.
I believe there are a combination of factors here at play. As someone who stated playing MMO's with EverQuest: Scars of Velious (late 2000) I think a lot of things have happened.
Assholes have always existed in gaming as they have always existed in society. Not really a new occurrence, but exposure to that lot varies from game to game. I like to blame Leeroy Jenkins for being a proponent of the troll culture, however they existed prior to World of Warcraft and in some cases were hunted down like rabid dogs. However Leeroy sensationalized it and made it okay to be a douche bag.
Generation Me started gaming. This happened roughly same time WoW brought MMORPG's into the mainstream. And the more players you want to hook, the more players you have to accommodate. This caused three things:
The MMO, obviously intended to be a social game setting, became a soloists paradise. There are planty of single player game out there still. Why are developers bringing this mentality into MMO's?
Publishers and developers started removing challenges and learning curve to accommodate the "Veruca Salt" players. As a niche gaming community MMO's required intelligence, community, and had challenges worthy of it's players. Where are these same players now? The mainstream populous couldn't tell me if I asked because they are too busy trolling each other.
And they started dumbing things down to make things mainstream so anyone could play. Now MMO's spoon feed as much of the target audience as possible in a cash grab mentality. I can appreciate the need for a business to make money, but I pay to be challenged, not to play through a game with the equivalent difficulty of watching television.
I am of the opinion MMO's were better as a niche game that actually challenged players and in some cases forced grouping/raiding to defeat a challenge. I miss the good old days of the MMO, this selfish soloist troll infested cash-grab garbage pile that it has become can rot in Hell.
Originally posted by Icewhite Whatever ya'll need to prop up your hubris is ok with the rest of us.But no amount of verbiage seems to stem the Change you've desperately been trying to stop for the last decade. Better keep your feet moving.
I think most of "us" would agree we aren't trying to stop anything. We don't care if they churn out 100 P.O.S. F2P HFF titles this year. We would just like a GD game to play .
Originally posted by Blitzwolfe ... I miss the good old days of the MMO, this selfish soloist troll infested cash-grab garbage pile that it has become can rot in Hell.
+1
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The MMO, obviously intended to be a social game setting, became a soloists paradise. There are planty of single player game out there still. Why are developers bringing this mentality into MMO's?
Because it is a free world, and devs have decided to go after a difference audience for whatever reasons.
No one has to obey what MMO is "intended to be". In fact, it is a fallacy to think that the original intention of early games should be a law to follow for newer games. If devs decide to innovate old MMOs, into new ... it is their prerogative.
Comments
I feel sorry for you, because, regardless of your efforts, your pretense of decency will only be a pretense.
I guess it depends on where you grew up and what your family situation was. Not everyone got computers right away.
I didn't read all the responses as some of them started to escalade into personal disputes. But here's my two cents on the OP subject.
I think community is as present as it needs to be. If a game is designed to be aimed towards soloists, then why bother with the hassle of "making friends" unless it comes to you, perhaps by mistake? If a game is designed to require coop, then communities/friends will form.
My point is, we're all adapting to what's expected from us. As of recent MMOs (which I haven't played), it seems quite obvious that they're developed for the soloist audience. So I ask you this why would I Try finding friends in a game when most have individualistic agendas anyway? Take a look at EVE, it's almost expected to be part of a group (Obviously one could play alone, but that's by choice).
I'm basing this on the later years of WOW (played WotLK and that other dragon exp. after it extensively) so my view on the matter might be outdated.
// Me!
agree - largely depends on if you have computer access or not
taking myself for example (age 51)
at highschool, we had dumb terminals hooked up the main system, the old games available were WUMPUS, ADVENT or StarTrek game (unless you count BANNER heh) -- computer programs were "fed" via computer punch hole tape
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_%28text_game%29
at Umass, amherst, 1980-1984, people used dumb terminals and 300 baud modems to connect to school mainframe
there wasnt anything decent to run on the mainframe (beyond text games i already mentioned) and BBSs
what did video gamers do for fun?
play coin-slot Arcade video games (Gauntlet, SpyHunter, Rampage, etc)
EQ2 fan sites
Games are entertainment. There is no contribution, only transaction. I certainly don't buy any games to contribute to anything. I buy a game if i like it. It is a trade. The devs (and publisher) got my money, i got fun. So no .. games are not charity. I do not contribute financially, or otherwise, to them. If i pay anything, it is a transaction, just like when i buy a bottle of red wine.
And you are attributing the wrong reason for why people move onto the next game. It is because people like variety. Civ is a deep game. The original Xcom is a deep game. There are plenty of deep games. I "moved on" after playing them for a while. MMOs are no different.
Pretended decency is better than repeated unwarranted insults.
Someone might play one F2P game and pay, but not another F2P game. Not everyone within a generation exclusively plays F2P games. Not to mention the fact that if the entire generation did not pay for any games, at all, the games would simply cease to exist. Your statements about money aren't supportable at all.
"Community" is happening, it's just happening outside of the games, not inside the games.
**
For instance, on sites like this.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If you have not notice, the foundation of MMOs have changed. The old foundation is no longer important for many players. I don't play MMOs for persistent world nor community (i do for persistent characters though) and i am having fun.
And given high churn rate of MMO players, i highly doubt most players is to "find a home" for a few years. In fact, most are staying not more than a few months.
What you think MMO is about ... is old fashion and no longer applies ... certainly not to me.
And i am quite sure i am not the only guy who game hop MMOs. There is really little you can do about this game hopping attitude.
I agree with you OP, I haven't read any replies so if I repeat something that has been said sorry.
I think there are 4 reasons to this.
1: The amount of mmo gamers from my days playing UO, DAOC, SWG, AC or w/e I was playing a decade ago to now has grown by astronomical numbers, this genre went from serving a couple hundred thousand to tens of millions, with that much of an increase in players there are going to be many many many more jerks.
2: Our game communities are sadly reflecting our RL communities which says a lot about society at least here in America, very few people in your everyday encounters in the real world act neighborly, they cut you off on the freeway, ride you butt on main street, cuss at the cashiers at the supermarket if they can't find something, and assault the employees at McDonalds for putting pickles on their burger when they didn't want it. I don't know when someone has last thanked me for opening a door for them or made eye contact with me when I pass them in a hall way, not to mention if you strike up a conversation with someone in a ticket line they think your nuts.
I could go on all day but long story short, acting as though we are part of a society is dead, this carries on to our game worlds.
3: Hurry! Sometimes I think I am the only person today not in a hurry, RL and in game, these days we are in such a rush and feel like we are so important we can't waste one second of our lives. look at how crazy people are about their cellphones for example, when I was in my late teens starting to game nobody cared if they missed a call, now days if I leave my cellphone behind I may miss a call and cost myself some valuable info that I must have now, I have no time to wait for the call I need it now! This has also carried into the gaming world. Nobody cares to or rather has time to make friends or learn stuff or waste a second on someone else, they must get to cap asap and kill Mr. king dragon immediately and you are just a temporary resource to help them achieve this.
4: Money, money, money, money, and oh ya money. Sadly I experience this everyday at work...Developers are churning out games so quickly by using reasons 1, 2, and 3 to their advantage to make more money, the quicker they can push you through a game the quicker they can release the next one ( via a new title or an xpac) and unfortunately if they make a nice warm environment for you and your friends to hang out and play in for years without a sub fee ( because nobody wants to pay a fee anymore, god forbid you help pay developers salaries for keeping your game going) they are making minimal money, so they make you pay for the next title or xpac, the only exception to this is with ftp games with micro transactions, in this case you rush to cap buying all your goodies along the way and they then need to release another game or xpac to get you to continue playing and continue buying xp boosts and potions.
All that being said, I to really miss the old communities, I really wish they would come back but unfortunately society and business these days will only become worse and will not allow that to happen. I have no hope for the future and at one time was done playing mmo's, now that they are all mostly free I play again (mostly solo because of the communities) and I am disappointed with every game I download.
Title of the post:
"The quality of communities has dropped since WOW (a tirade)"
My answer:
such and such reasons are why
Your comment:
".....don't build communities..."
I swear, if you walked into a pizza joint, you'd order a hamburger.
"And what is wrong with ordering a hamburger at a pizza joint? If it's fun, who cares."
/end impersonation
True, but remember some people don't play well with others.
I pwned at spyhunter! Funny you brought up video games; I was minutes ago thinking arcade games had a type of death penalty that ate up your quarters and made you start over. Those who grew up on video games (not arcade), never had to spend $ when they lost the game.
Welcome to MMORPG.com!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I effing loved spyhunter but gauntlet was a different story, Guantlet was an addiction I spent all my weeks allowance on that cabinet, week after week.
Lets bring those kind of death penalties back lol we'd all be broke. Even back then community sucked though, you were a jerk to whoever you played with, "I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE HUNGRY WIZARD! MY FOOD!!"
The problem is evidence shows that majority of players are not giving transactions or contributions to the MMORPG genre anymore. The genre has been basically heading into one direction of casual single player gaming without catering to it's core audience because it's more profitable cater to guys with disposable incomes that will spend extraordinarily ridiculous amounts of money.
MMORPG's are not single players games designed to consumed. They're never ending trending games that are designed to be played long term. But many now are designed to consumed short term by their own flawed designs. Some are designed cash shops cheese but many of the failed games initially weren't.
I'll say this really, really slow so you might understand it. The MMO core audience today *IS* the casual single player. Your side hasn't been the core audience of the MMO marketplace in years and are never going to be again.
MMOs are whatever people who play MMOs want them to be because the people who play MMOs pay the bills for the people who develop them. If you haven't figured this out yet, it's no wonder you don't understand the issues involved.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Whatever ya'll need to prop up your hubris is ok with the rest of us.
But no amount of verbiage seems to stem the Change you've desperately been trying to stop for the last decade. Better keep your feet moving.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The casuals are not the core players anymore than moderates are the core of political parties in the US. Right now the core is the whales who actually prop up the genre. The games are designed around sucking money from them and are casual because developers are convinced ease and accessibility is the end all. But for the so called core every game designed casual fails to hold an audience and redesigned for whales.
MMORPGs are never ending. There are no end credits turn off the game moments. Even if they're shallow and the new ones are attempting to sell you crap as you catapult through content its still a never ending game.
Yeah.
In fact, i play MMOs like SP games solo. And when i "finished" the content, i move on. And that is the way i like it.
The community is bad because people no longer need each other on a significant level. Most communities are separated into different guild cliques which generally are very small and fragmented within. Everything is just a click, away..
Need an item, go to the auction house. (Granted some people still trade face to face, but this is an overwhelming minority.)
Need to run a dungeon or participate in a raid, Enter queue.
Need to level up, no problem, no reason to group or even work with other people as it'll only slow you down.
Need advice on how to do something, alt tab and google a guide.
Most of the content isn't hard enough to inspire the need to communicate with others except in normal and heroic raids. Plus you'll be done in 10-25 minutes in most five mans and you wont be likely to ever see and/or recognize them again because the community is so vast in population.
Most of these aspects are good in and of themselves but they came with the bi-product or intention of raising autonomy to an extreme level. Its at such a level where other people are often just viewed as a nuisance.. or a necessary evil. Granted part of this is what a large core of the audience does want. Many don't care about the community or a living world that people can shaped and meld.
The Massive Multiplayer element has generally boiled down to a bragging rights fest sitting in the capitol city. Look at my gear, achievements, mounts, pet etc.
Just my 2 cents.
*shuffle shuffle* *tap* *shuffle shuffle* *skip* *shuffle shuffle*
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah .. and this is the way most players prefer. May be many think bragging is more fun than needing someone else for your dungeon run.
I believe there are a combination of factors here at play. As someone who stated playing MMO's with EverQuest: Scars of Velious (late 2000) I think a lot of things have happened.
Assholes have always existed in gaming as they have always existed in society. Not really a new occurrence, but exposure to that lot varies from game to game. I like to blame Leeroy Jenkins for being a proponent of the troll culture, however they existed prior to World of Warcraft and in some cases were hunted down like rabid dogs. However Leeroy sensationalized it and made it okay to be a douche bag.
Generation Me started gaming. This happened roughly same time WoW brought MMORPG's into the mainstream. And the more players you want to hook, the more players you have to accommodate. This caused three things:
I think most of "us" would agree we aren't trying to stop anything. We don't care if they churn out 100 P.O.S. F2P HFF titles this year. We would just like a GD game to play
+1
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Because it is a free world, and devs have decided to go after a difference audience for whatever reasons.
No one has to obey what MMO is "intended to be". In fact, it is a fallacy to think that the original intention of early games should be a law to follow for newer games. If devs decide to innovate old MMOs, into new ... it is their prerogative.
Personally i already have a community.
I do not need, or i am not even interested, in new communities in games i play (or will play).
Games are for fun (for me), not to make friends (which in the past has happened to me, as a by-product of playing with the same people for a while).