Swtor wont last past ESO,Wildstar and EQN. Once ESO hits you will see a good chunk leave same with wildstar but once EQN hits its lights out.
The game is riding its IP, nothing more its a crap game imo for the amount of money invested.
Riding it's IP? What nonsense, if slapping "Star Wars" on the box were sufficient for success, SWG would have had as many players as TOR. As another poster already pointed out, SWG on it's best day was nowhere near as popular (or financially successful) as TOR on it's worst day. We get it, you don't like the game. But trying to claim it's only successful because of the name slapped on it is just dumb.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
SWTOR is not doing anything right, just that other MMOs are doing everything just as or more wrong.
SWTOR makes other themepark games like WOW and LOTRO seem like a sandbox because SWTOR is so lacking in atmosphere and exploaration, which you have in WOW and LOTRO more so.
Then comes along Neverwinter and makes SWTOR look more of a sandbox as NW is even more constricted.
Dragons Prohpet is extremely heavy on the PC, and is the only game that makes my PC go into Windows basic.
Wildstar does not look that great, and even SWTOR looks better.
All the older MMOs are still better, but they are not surviving because they are getting old, and people are exhausting the content, especially when devs concentrate on the new and ditch the old.
SWTOR still does not beat the deepness of SWG, and if both MMOs released at the same time, SWG would be the one coming out on top, in the long run
then how come SWTOR is doing better then all those MMOs except WoW?
If SWG was so deep and amazing how come it did so poorly?
wait... if both SWG and SWTOR were released then SWG would win? SWG couldn't even win the market when it was launched and it was the only sandbox choice.
Of course SWG IS out now it can barely get 2,000 players now.
SWG never went F2P, its entire lifetime, so did not do poorly
SWTOR would be deader than SWG if it still required a monthly fee, and it was the fastest MMO to go F2P from P2P, especially considering EA were confident with the monthly fee and did not intend it going F2P.
having only 2,000 subscriptions is pretty poor and that is including the people using a station pass.
SWTOR at its lowest point had around 500k subscribers
SWG at its highest point only had 350k subscribers. It only held 350k for a few months.
SWTOR held over 500k for 2 years
You would be incredibly neive to think that SWTOR wasn't launched with a plan to F2P.
In fact SWTOR has made more money in only 2 years then SWG did in over 9 years.
Is that all you got?
Swtor wont last past ESO,Wildstar and EQN. Once ESO hits you will see a good chunk leave same with wildstar but once EQN hits its lights out.
The game is riding its IP, nothing more its a crap game imo for the amount of money invested.
There are too many failed Star Wars games for the "It's Star Wars" argument to be true. The Star Wars IP by itself isn't enough to keep a game running, especially at the pace that SWToR is running. It's currently one of the top performing Western MMORPGs and it's in the top ten best selling Star Wars games. Again, unless it's an especially good "Star Wars" experience, then the IP keeping the game running doesn't work as an argument.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Pulling them in? My guess would be the class stories. Keeping them around? No idea. I love the class stories, but those are over. Hell, I am still subbed because I pay six months at a time, and I want to show my support for more focus on narrative in MMOs, but it's been quite a while since I actually logged in and played for any substantial amount of time.
Once ESO and Wildstar are both out, I have a suspicion my TOR sub will lapsing, at least temporarily.
Damn, that pretty much completely sums up what I was going to say.
I'm also cruising on the last few months of my six months sub, and it'll be up around the time ESO comes out, at which point it will most likely not see a renewal.
Maybe some miracle will happen and they'll announce more story content in the coming months... but... I don't see it happening, and even if it does... now that my quest for a replacement has resulted in a good candidate... =P
"Too little, too late" as the saying goes.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
SWTOR is not doing anything right, just that other MMOs are doing everything just as or more wrong.
SWTOR makes other themepark games like WOW and LOTRO seem like a sandbox because SWTOR is so lacking in atmosphere and exploaration, which you have in WOW and LOTRO more so.
Then comes along Neverwinter and makes SWTOR look more of a sandbox as NW is even more constricted.
Dragons Prohpet is extremely heavy on the PC, and is the only game that makes my PC go into Windows basic.
Wildstar does not look that great, and even SWTOR looks better.
All the older MMOs are still better, but they are not surviving because they are getting old, and people are exhausting the content, especially when devs concentrate on the new and ditch the old.
SWTOR still does not beat the deepness of SWG, and if both MMOs released at the same time, SWG would be the one coming out on top, in the long run
then how come SWTOR is doing better then all those MMOs except WoW?
If SWG was so deep and amazing how come it did so poorly?
wait... if both SWG and SWTOR were released then SWG would win? SWG couldn't even win the market when it was launched and it was the only sandbox choice.
Of course SWG IS out now it can barely get 2,000 players now.
SWG never went F2P, its entire lifetime, so did not do poorly
SWTOR would be deader than SWG if it still required a monthly fee, and it was the fastest MMO to go F2P from P2P, especially considering EA were confident with the monthly fee and did not intend it going F2P.
having only 2,000 subscriptions is pretty poor and that is including the people using a station pass.
SWTOR at its lowest point had around 500k subscribers
SWG at its highest point only had 350k subscribers. It only held 350k for a few months.
SWTOR held over 500k for 2 years
You would be incredibly neive to think that SWTOR wasn't launched with a plan to F2P.
In fact SWTOR has made more money in only 2 years then SWG did in over 9 years.
Is that all you got?
Where are you getting 2000 from?
It does not matter how many people played and subbed to SWG, it was enough to keep the game alive, and did not need to resort going F2P. EA / BW constantly said that they needed to maintain at least 500K subs to break even - SWTOR was an expensive beast they could not handle, because it is more like a single player console game with multiplayer than a MMO, which is why 1.5 million out of 2 million people quit the game by F2P, and the cash shop is no different to a lot of console games.
Saying SWG is poor is like saying a car is poor for not being able to carry many people like a bus can. SWG was simply not designed for mass loads of players, but SWTOR was. EA/ BW wanted 10 million like what WOW had, but even now I think they only have 4 million - about 2 million before F2P, and 1.7 million after. Both Free Realms and Clone Wars Adventures managed to get 10 million users, and now they are both shutting down under a company who is reluctant in shutting down games, but EA likes to shut down games.
Plus where SWG was never F2P, the two can not be compared. A lot of people play SWTOR and do not even pay a thing, and they motivate other people to play more and pay.
They may have had a plan to make it F2P but certainly not within the first 9 months. The poor performance of SWTOR has resulted in the Doctors leaving Bioware, and LA selling out to Disney.
Damn, that pretty much completely sums up what I was going to say.
I'm also cruising on the last few months of my six months sub, and it'll be up around the time ESO comes out, at which point it will most likely not see a renewal.
Maybe some miracle will happen and they'll announce more story content in the coming months... but... I don't see it happening, and even if it does... now that my quest for a replacement has resulted in a good candidate... =P
"Too little, too late" as the saying goes.
I'm actually playing again now, because I checked and saw I only have two weeks left on my current sub, but if the Landmark alpha releases in the next week like they said it's going to, I will probably go ahead and let the sub lapse, since I think that can probably keep me busy until ESO comes out or I finally get a Wildstar beta invite.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
SWTOR is not doing anything right, just that other MMOs are doing everything just as or more wrong.
SWTOR makes other themepark games like WOW and LOTRO seem like a sandbox because SWTOR is so lacking in atmosphere and exploaration, which you have in WOW and LOTRO more so.
Then comes along Neverwinter and makes SWTOR look more of a sandbox as NW is even more constricted.
Dragons Prohpet is extremely heavy on the PC, and is the only game that makes my PC go into Windows basic.
Wildstar does not look that great, and even SWTOR looks better.
All the older MMOs are still better, but they are not surviving because they are getting old, and people are exhausting the content, especially when devs concentrate on the new and ditch the old.
SWTOR still does not beat the deepness of SWG, and if both MMOs released at the same time, SWG would be the one coming out on top, in the long run
then how come SWTOR is doing better then all those MMOs except WoW?
If SWG was so deep and amazing how come it did so poorly?
wait... if both SWG and SWTOR were released then SWG would win? SWG couldn't even win the market when it was launched and it was the only sandbox choice.
Of course SWG IS out now it can barely get 2,000 players now.
SWG never went F2P, its entire lifetime, so did not do poorly
SWTOR would be deader than SWG if it still required a monthly fee, and it was the fastest MMO to go F2P from P2P, especially considering EA were confident with the monthly fee and did not intend it going F2P.
having only 2,000 subscriptions is pretty poor and that is including the people using a station pass.
SWTOR at its lowest point had around 500k subscribers
SWG at its highest point only had 350k subscribers. It only held 350k for a few months.
SWTOR held over 500k for 2 years
You would be incredibly neive to think that SWTOR wasn't launched with a plan to F2P.
In fact SWTOR has made more money in only 2 years then SWG did in over 9 years.
Is that all you got?
Where are you getting 2000 from?
It does not matter how many people played and subbed to SWG, it was enough to keep the game alive, and did not need to resort going F2P. EA / BW constantly said that they needed to maintain at least 500K subs to break even - SWTOR was an expensive beast they could not handle, because it is more like a single player console game with multiplayer than a MMO, which is why 1.5 million out of 2 million people quit the game by F2P, and the cash shop is no different to a lot of console games.
Saying SWG is poor is like saying a car is poor for not being able to carry many people like a bus can. SWG was simply not designed for mass loads of players, but SWTOR was. EA/ BW wanted 10 million like what WOW had, but even now I think they only have 4 million - about 2 million before F2P, and 1.7 million after. Both Free Realms and Clone Wars Adventures managed to get 10 million users, and now they are both shutting down under a company who is reluctant in shutting down games, but EA likes to shut down games.
Plus where SWG was never F2P, the two can not be compared. A lot of people play SWTOR and do not even pay a thing, and they motivate other people to play more and pay.
They may have had a plan to make it F2P but certainly not within the first 9 months. The poor performance of SWTOR has resulted in the Doctors leaving Bioware, and LA selling out to Disney.
It does matter facts matter. Swtor has more players then swg ever good have dreamed of. Swtor is generating more revenue in two years then swg did in its entire life. Face it swg closed because nobody was playing it. Face it the number comes from the max people in the emulator is 2000 people. Face it the swg bitter vets crusade to take down Swtor has failed. Soe is making a game just for people like you why don't you go spread your misinformation and hate over there. Why not spend your time and energy on something you might like rather then dwelling on the fact swg failed, Swtor is succeeding. Revenue, profit and population prove that. I understand facts are a bad thing for the bitter swg fans but that's what they are facts. Enjoy soe new game leave your hate and misinformation over there thanks.
There is no facts that SWTOR is generating more revenue. It is just huge figures giving the impression that it is getting loads of money, but still probably not enough to pay back the cost of the game.
SWG did not cost a bomb to make, and its small userbase still made it more profitable. If it was not it would have been shut down earlier or went F2P. The reason SWG shut down was because of the licence, which got handed over to SWTOR
Fact is SWG shut down on the same day SWTOR started, and that is too much of a coincidence, meaning if it was a failure then it would not have shut down then.
The emulator is no guidance, I am not even playing the emulator myself. Fact is one week before the shut down notice of SWG, SOE had to block transfers to 2 more servers as they had gotten full. SWG was growing at that time, it gets shut down? May-June 2011 in SWG was the best month I had in SWG for a long time.
I really like the class stories in the game, but they kept me in only as long as they lasted.
Also the companions are really nicely done imo, I liked them, dear Vette brought joy into "soloing" - I also liked the mission system for companions even if it's only a little timer UI.
Oh and then there's that whole "Star Wars thing" yes, that's also a boon for the game
But yeah, after hitting max level there's nothing for me. I have grown to really hate this theme park iconic power creep progression where you get driven into a tiny end-game pocket and the rest of the world is meaningless.
Oh god I dislike it so much now, it has ruined many games as soon as the leveling is over. Wildstar will be ruined because of it, TESO, and many more upcoming titles. You get squeezed into endgame pocket which is 5% of the game world tops, so sad, what a waste of a huge game world...
There is no facts that SWTOR is generating more revenue. It is just huge figures giving the impression that it is getting loads of money, but still probably not enough to pay back the cost of the game.
SWG did not cost a bomb to make, and its small userbase still made it more profitable. If it was not it would have been shut down earlier or went F2P. The reason SWG shut down was because of the licence, which got handed over to SWTOR
Fact is SWG shut down on the same day SWTOR started, and that is too much of a coincidence, meaning if it was a failure then it would not have shut down then.
The emulator is no guidance, I am not even playing the emulator myself. Fact is one week before the shut down notice of SWG, SOE had to block transfers to 2 more servers as they had gotten full. SWG was growing at that time, it gets shut down? May-June 2011 in SWG was the best month I had in SWG for a long time.
You are coming across as either dishonest or delusional. Close to 500k subscriptions and 139 million in cash shop revenue, for 2013 alone, that is how TOR is doing. More than two million sales of the game back before it was F2P, many of them direct digital sales from EA. There is absolutely no logical reason to believe at this point that the game hasn't covered all of it's costs and moved into long-term profitability. Even if it hadn't covered the development costs, it is still turning a massive profit as measured in a given fiscal year, since the major development costs are all on the books for previous years.
SWG may have still been turning a profit, since other than keeping the servers running they had basically stopped spending any money on it. That doesn't mean it was turning enough profit that it could cover the cost of renewing the license, which likely would not have been cheap, even if both parties had been willing in theory. As for why it didn't go freemium? It's player base was probably so small they decided the expense of adding a cash shop probably wouldn't get covered by the cash shop's revenue anyway.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
There is no facts that SWTOR is generating more revenue. It is just huge figures giving the impression that it is getting loads of money, but still probably not enough to pay back the cost of the game.
SWG did not cost a bomb to make, and its small userbase still made it more profitable. If it was not it would have been shut down earlier or went F2P. The reason SWG shut down was because of the licence, which got handed over to SWTOR
Fact is SWG shut down on the same day SWTOR started, and that is too much of a coincidence, meaning if it was a failure then it would not have shut down then.
The emulator is no guidance, I am not even playing the emulator myself. Fact is one week before the shut down notice of SWG, SOE had to block transfers to 2 more servers as they had gotten full. SWG was growing at that time, it gets shut down? May-June 2011 in SWG was the best month I had in SWG for a long time.
You are coming across as either dishonest or delusional. Close to 500k subscriptions and 139 million in cash shop revenue, for 2013 alone, that is how TOR is doing. More than two million sales of the game back before it was F2P, many of them direct digital sales from EA. There is absolutely no logical reason to believe at this point that the game hasn't covered all of it's costs and moved into long-term profitability. Even if it hadn't covered the development costs, it is still turning a massive profit as measured in a given fiscal year, since the major development costs are all on the books for previous years.
SWG may have still been turning a profit, since other than keeping the servers running they had basically stopped spending any money on it. That doesn't mean it was turning enough profit that it could cover the cost of renewing the license, which likely would not have been cheap, even if both parties had been willing in theory. As for why it didn't go freemium? It's player base was probably so small they decided the expense of adding a cash shop probably wouldn't get covered by the cash shop's revenue anyway.
I am neither dishonest or delusional, my comments are based off what EA/BW have actually said, not what might be the case.
Before F2P EA even said its performance was not good despite the 2 million sales, and just under 1 million subs
If they had covered their costs and now making profits they would be shouting it from the rooftops, so there is no logical reason to think they are now making profits, and to think that is just optimistic assumption.
I really like the class stories in the game, but they kept me in only as long as they lasted.
Also the companions are really nicely done imo, I liked them, dear Vette brought joy into "soloing" - I also liked the mission system for companions even if it's only a little timer UI.
Oh and then there's that whole "Star Wars thing" yes, that's also a boon for the game
But yeah, after hitting max level there's nothing for me. I have grown to really hate this theme park iconic power creep progression where you get driven into a tiny end-game pocket and the rest of the world is meaningless.
Oh god I dislike it so much now, it has ruined many games as soon as the leveling is over. Wildstar will be ruined because of it, TESO, and many more upcoming titles. You get squeezed into endgame pocket which is 5% of the game world tops, so sad, what a waste of a huge game world...
I've never been a huge fan of "end game" in any of the MMORPGs I've played. In WoW I spent nearly all my time doing dailies and in battle grounds. I did get into raids and such, but I always waited until someone asked. It wasn't really something I went looking to do.
It sounds like SWToR has the same kind of setup that I wouldn't be interested in. A lot of people seem to be happy with it though. For someone who is into end game raiding and raid progression, SWToR seems to provide a good model of it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The game launched on December 20 2011 and you are quoting press release from like 2 years over. What is the matter with you must you resort to such lies to support your case ? Pathetic hater really they have said they have gotten over 500k but oh no you have not produced that quote because it does not support your hater pov.
The game launched on December 20 2011 and you are quoting press release from like 2 years over. What is the matter with you must you resort to such lies to support your case ? Pathetic hater really they have said they have gotten over 500k but oh no you have not produced that quote because it does not support your hater pov.
I brought up the link to respond to Cazneergs comment "More than two million sales of the game back before it was F2P, many of them direct digital sales from EA."
not to try and hate on the game.
Cazneerg stated it as if it was some awesome stats, yet EA themselves said those stats were poor.
So SWTOR fans can pull 2 years news out but not any one else? That is pathetic attitude and makes any discussion good or bad about SWTOR pointless.
If they had covered their costs and now making profits they would be shouting it from the rooftops, so there is no logical reason to think they are now making profits, and to think that is just optimistic assumption.
You are being extremely selective in your sources. They said it would break even with 500k subscribers *when they didn't have a cash shop.* Now they have the 500k subscribers, and a cash shop that brought in 139 million in 2013 alone. So if we assume they were both honest and accurate when they said they would break even at 500k, that means that for 2013 they are 139 million past the break even point.
Originally posted by superniceguy
I brought up the link to respond to Cazneergs comment "More than two million sales of the game back before it was F2P, many of them direct digital sales from EA."
not to try and hate on the game.
Cazneerg stated it as if it was some awesome stats, yet EA themselves said those stats were poor.
So SWTOR fans can pull 2 years news out but not any one else? That is pathetic attitude and makes any discussion good or bad about SWTOR pointless.
You are still being awfully selective. I listed the sales number along with other elements, to illustrate how many different substantial revenue streams had come together in the history of the game, not as an attempt to say that that number by itself had made them profitable.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
SWTOR is not doing anything right, just that other MMOs are doing everything just as or more wrong.
SWTOR makes other themepark games like WOW and LOTRO seem like a sandbox because SWTOR is so lacking in atmosphere and exploaration, which you have in WOW and LOTRO more so.
Then comes along Neverwinter and makes SWTOR look more of a sandbox as NW is even more constricted.
Dragons Prohpet is extremely heavy on the PC, and is the only game that makes my PC go into Windows basic.
Wildstar does not look that great, and even SWTOR looks better.
All the older MMOs are still better, but they are not surviving because they are getting old, and people are exhausting the content, especially when devs concentrate on the new and ditch the old.
SWTOR still does not beat the deepness of SWG, and if both MMOs released at the same time, SWG would be the one coming out on top, in the long run
then how come SWTOR is doing better then all those MMOs except WoW?
If SWG was so deep and amazing how come it did so poorly?
wait... if both SWG and SWTOR were released then SWG would win? SWG couldn't even win the market when it was launched and it was the only sandbox choice.
Of course SWG IS out now it can barely get 2,000 players now.
SWG never went F2P, its entire lifetime, so did not do poorly
SWTOR would be deader than SWG if it still required a monthly fee, and it was the fastest MMO to go F2P from P2P, especially considering EA were confident with the monthly fee and did not intend it going F2P.
having only 2,000 subscriptions is pretty poor and that is including the people using a station pass.
SWTOR at its lowest point had around 500k subscribers
SWG at its highest point only had 350k subscribers. It only held 350k for a few months.
SWTOR held over 500k for 2 years
You would be incredibly neive to think that SWTOR wasn't launched with a plan to F2P.
In fact SWTOR has made more money in only 2 years then SWG did in over 9 years.
Is that all you got?
Swtor wont last past ESO,Wildstar and EQN. Once ESO hits you will see a good chunk leave same with wildstar but once EQN hits its lights out.
The game is riding its IP, nothing more its a crap game imo for the amount of money invested.
Anyone that post on a game and calls it a crap game and proclaims the doom and gloom are never know for their credibility. So we know where put put this post.
good thing that is my IMO and i also stated that. The game is crap imo, why, because they spent 100million USD on it and its brings not innovative to the table, its all WoW in its early stage but with lightsabers.
Swtor wont last past ESO,Wildstar and EQN. Once ESO hits you will see a good chunk leave same with wildstar but once EQN hits its lights out.
The game is riding its IP, nothing more its a crap game imo for the amount of money invested.
Riding it's IP? What nonsense, if slapping "Star Wars" on the box were sufficient for success, SWG would have had as many players as TOR. As another poster already pointed out, SWG on it's best day was nowhere near as popular (or financially successful) as TOR on it's worst day. We get it, you don't like the game. But trying to claim it's only successful because of the name slapped on it is just dumb.
measuring success based just on the amount of player base alone is dumb in it self. If i aim to get every single player that likes to be able to kill anyone in a game as they want and i get 80% of that population then i would say that is considered success.
SWTOR is not doing anything right, just that other MMOs are doing everything just as or more wrong.
SWTOR makes other themepark games like WOW and LOTRO seem like a sandbox because SWTOR is so lacking in atmosphere and exploaration, which you have in WOW and LOTRO more so.
Then comes along Neverwinter and makes SWTOR look more of a sandbox as NW is even more constricted.
Dragons Prohpet is extremely heavy on the PC, and is the only game that makes my PC go into Windows basic.
Wildstar does not look that great, and even SWTOR looks better.
All the older MMOs are still better, but they are not surviving because they are getting old, and people are exhausting the content, especially when devs concentrate on the new and ditch the old.
SWTOR still does not beat the deepness of SWG, and if both MMOs released at the same time, SWG would be the one coming out on top, in the long run
then how come SWTOR is doing better then all those MMOs except WoW?
If SWG was so deep and amazing how come it did so poorly?
wait... if both SWG and SWTOR were released then SWG would win? SWG couldn't even win the market when it was launched and it was the only sandbox choice.
Of course SWG IS out now it can barely get 2,000 players now.
SWG never went F2P, its entire lifetime, so did not do poorly
SWTOR would be deader than SWG if it still required a monthly fee, and it was the fastest MMO to go F2P from P2P, especially considering EA were confident with the monthly fee and did not intend it going F2P.
having only 2,000 subscriptions is pretty poor and that is including the people using a station pass.
SWTOR at its lowest point had around 500k subscribers
SWG at its highest point only had 350k subscribers. It only held 350k for a few months.
SWTOR held over 500k for 2 years
You would be incredibly neive to think that SWTOR wasn't launched with a plan to F2P.
In fact SWTOR has made more money in only 2 years then SWG did in over 9 years.
Is that all you got?
Swtor wont last past ESO,Wildstar and EQN. Once ESO hits you will see a good chunk leave same with wildstar but once EQN hits its lights out.
The game is riding its IP, nothing more its a crap game imo for the amount of money invested.
There are too many failed Star Wars games for the "It's Star Wars" argument to be true. The Star Wars IP by itself isn't enough to keep a game running, especially at the pace that SWToR is running. It's currently one of the top performing Western MMORPGs and it's in the top ten best selling Star Wars games. Again, unless it's an especially good "Star Wars" experience, then the IP keeping the game running doesn't work as an argument.
I'll bite, the IP might not be the only factor but its the largest by far, look what it is up against ATM, there is no other game out there like it the closest to is EVE. The genera, the IP and the story line. ONCE again I feel the game is crap because it is way to simple and similar to WoW when it first came out. WoW was great when it came it, if it was just now coming out it wouldnt see the light of day. SWTOR is missing just to much of everything for it to be "good" atm I would rate it "ok' IF they didnt spend 100million USD on it.
What hooked me in was playing on the Empire side as a sith sorcerer. I played Tie Fighter years ago but I'd never played a game that took you that far in depth into the Empire, the dark side, etc. It was extremely addictive. SWTOR gives Star Wars fans a chance to play for the Empire in a way that no other game's ever presented.
Apart from that I think the graphics, at least the character graphics, are vastly underrated. The animations and attack moves look great.
It offers a high tech setting in the Star Wars universe, which is a huge departure from most generic fantasy MMOs. It's not like loading up Guild Wars 2 and going "oh yay I get to play a necromancer...AGAIN".
I think the voice acting was a bit overdone, but now all other MMOs suddenly feel like silent movies from 1932. It could have been implemented little better in my opinion but it's still a huge advancement over all other MMOs.
The biggest hurdle for SWTOR was it didn't offer the vast array of customization that WoW has. It didn't launch with a customisable UI and that was a big deal to alot of players. But in all fairness it's caught up sufficiently and it's as good as anything out there. I'm sure the cash shop generates alot of money mainly due to the fact that it's virtual Star Wars memerobilia.
Yeah once again the haters have to come into a thread and show their behinds. They can't handle TOR'S success and they can't even handle having ONE thread on this entire forum devoid of their nonsense. When you point out the flaws in their statements using their very own sources they simply move the goalposts.
Swtor wont last past ESO,Wildstar and EQN. Once ESO hits you will see a good chunk leave same with wildstar but once EQN hits its lights out.
The game is riding its IP, nothing more its a crap game imo for the amount of money invested.
Riding it's IP? What nonsense, if slapping "Star Wars" on the box were sufficient for success, SWG would have had as many players as TOR. As another poster already pointed out, SWG on it's best day was nowhere near as popular (or financially successful) as TOR on it's worst day. We get it, you don't like the game. But trying to claim it's only successful because of the name slapped on it is just dumb.
measuring success based just on the amount of player base alone is dumb in it self. If i aim to get every single player that likes to be able to kill anyone in a game as they want and i get 80% of that population then i would say that is considered success.
Ok hang on here so the haters say you can't measure the success or quality of a game based on the revenue it brings in, the fact it's making a profit and now you can't based on the success or quality of a game based on population? So what do we use to base the success and quality of a game the opinion of those who hate a video game or those who thinks it's crap?
So IMO I would never spam a video game I didn't enjoy (never would call it crap or hate a video game IMO those two things are IMO ridiculous behaviors for a mature healthy adult.). I play ffxiv didn't enjoy it never once thought about going to an online site and crying about. Sorry just my IMO of the situation here.
No need to be sorry its your believe of the game. Either you miss the point or you are just looking for some straw to grab at. Success is what every you believe it is for your product. If mine was to make 10million dollars is X time and I am pretty close to doing so then I would consider that successful.
This whole talk is nothing more then peoples thoughts on this game and what they feel the game has done correctly, I pointed out what I think is it has done correctly and that is: utilizing the IP, great story and exploiting the genera. It would be a unjustice to leave it there without also stating the game is boring, wow with lightsabers during early wow, and simply simple with no innovation to its name.
The game (imo) clearly wasnt looking to be something new but something the same, for me that is extremely boring.
Originally posted by ktanner3 Yeah once again the haters have to come into a thread and show their behinds. They can't handle TOR'S success and they can't even handle having ONE thread on this entire forum devoid of their nonsense. When you point out the flaws in their statements using their very own sources they simply move the goalposts.
I do hate the game, why, because it was extremely disappointing from my point of view, any time I log in a game and stand around for a hour out of boredom then the game has failed me.
Originally posted by ktanner3 Yeah once again the haters have to come into a thread and show their behinds. They can't handle TOR'S success and they can't even handle having ONE thread on this entire forum devoid of their nonsense. When you point out the flaws in their statements using their very own sources they simply move the goalposts.
I do hate the game, why, because it was extremely disappointing from my point of view, any time I log in a game and stand around for a hour out of boredom then the game has failed me.
Then why not find something that you do enjoy? Why go do something you hate? That makes zero sense to me. Hey I would hate having my nails pulled out but boy why don't I just keep going back to get it done? Hey not every video game is ment for everyone. The good news is there are plenty to choose from. Go find one.
I dont recall stating I am not looking or found a game I like, from what I understand this thread wasnt made to be a circle jerk but more of a opinion from those that played the game and what they believe is good about it. The good and bad come hand in hand. TBH I have the collectors ed. and wanted to the game to do well and from what I understand it is doing very well which is good because they may be meeting what ever goal they had for it. My goal was to invest my time into a game that Bioware is known for while using a IP I love one of the most. What I got wasnt even close to what Bioware has been known for in the past (halfway, story lines are good), openness and freedom of the game just isnt there nor is a lot that I wont go into much detail about.
ESO is much closer to what my idea of a good MMO is but there will be so many haters pointing out the flaws from that game which is fine and I might just learn something from them who knows.
Going by some of the logic in this thread, EA apparently mastered black magic or mind control and thus will conquer the world in 30 days or something. /Facpalm.
I play SWTOR and I play it because of the Class story. I still haven't seen every one of them and some require multiple play through to see it all; e.g. Operative.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
This.
Riding it's IP? What nonsense, if slapping "Star Wars" on the box were sufficient for success, SWG would have had as many players as TOR. As another poster already pointed out, SWG on it's best day was nowhere near as popular (or financially successful) as TOR on it's worst day. We get it, you don't like the game. But trying to claim it's only successful because of the name slapped on it is just dumb.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
There are too many failed Star Wars games for the "It's Star Wars" argument to be true. The Star Wars IP by itself isn't enough to keep a game running, especially at the pace that SWToR is running. It's currently one of the top performing Western MMORPGs and it's in the top ten best selling Star Wars games. Again, unless it's an especially good "Star Wars" experience, then the IP keeping the game running doesn't work as an argument.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Damn, that pretty much completely sums up what I was going to say.
I'm also cruising on the last few months of my six months sub, and it'll be up around the time ESO comes out, at which point it will most likely not see a renewal.
Maybe some miracle will happen and they'll announce more story content in the coming months... but... I don't see it happening, and even if it does... now that my quest for a replacement has resulted in a good candidate... =P
"Too little, too late" as the saying goes.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Where are you getting 2000 from?
It does not matter how many people played and subbed to SWG, it was enough to keep the game alive, and did not need to resort going F2P. EA / BW constantly said that they needed to maintain at least 500K subs to break even - SWTOR was an expensive beast they could not handle, because it is more like a single player console game with multiplayer than a MMO, which is why 1.5 million out of 2 million people quit the game by F2P, and the cash shop is no different to a lot of console games.
Saying SWG is poor is like saying a car is poor for not being able to carry many people like a bus can. SWG was simply not designed for mass loads of players, but SWTOR was. EA/ BW wanted 10 million like what WOW had, but even now I think they only have 4 million - about 2 million before F2P, and 1.7 million after. Both Free Realms and Clone Wars Adventures managed to get 10 million users, and now they are both shutting down under a company who is reluctant in shutting down games, but EA likes to shut down games.
Plus where SWG was never F2P, the two can not be compared. A lot of people play SWTOR and do not even pay a thing, and they motivate other people to play more and pay.
They may have had a plan to make it F2P but certainly not within the first 9 months. The poor performance of SWTOR has resulted in the Doctors leaving Bioware, and LA selling out to Disney.
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I'm actually playing again now, because I checked and saw I only have two weeks left on my current sub, but if the Landmark alpha releases in the next week like they said it's going to, I will probably go ahead and let the sub lapse, since I think that can probably keep me busy until ESO comes out or I finally get a Wildstar beta invite.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
There is no facts that SWTOR is generating more revenue. It is just huge figures giving the impression that it is getting loads of money, but still probably not enough to pay back the cost of the game.
SWG did not cost a bomb to make, and its small userbase still made it more profitable. If it was not it would have been shut down earlier or went F2P. The reason SWG shut down was because of the licence, which got handed over to SWTOR
Fact is SWG shut down on the same day SWTOR started, and that is too much of a coincidence, meaning if it was a failure then it would not have shut down then.
The emulator is no guidance, I am not even playing the emulator myself. Fact is one week before the shut down notice of SWG, SOE had to block transfers to 2 more servers as they had gotten full. SWG was growing at that time, it gets shut down? May-June 2011 in SWG was the best month I had in SWG for a long time.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I really like the class stories in the game, but they kept me in only as long as they lasted.
Also the companions are really nicely done imo, I liked them, dear Vette brought joy into "soloing" - I also liked the mission system for companions even if it's only a little timer UI.
Oh and then there's that whole "Star Wars thing" yes, that's also a boon for the game
But yeah, after hitting max level there's nothing for me. I have grown to really hate this theme park iconic power creep progression where you get driven into a tiny end-game pocket and the rest of the world is meaningless.
Oh god I dislike it so much now, it has ruined many games as soon as the leveling is over. Wildstar will be ruined because of it, TESO, and many more upcoming titles. You get squeezed into endgame pocket which is 5% of the game world tops, so sad, what a waste of a huge game world...
You are coming across as either dishonest or delusional. Close to 500k subscriptions and 139 million in cash shop revenue, for 2013 alone, that is how TOR is doing. More than two million sales of the game back before it was F2P, many of them direct digital sales from EA. There is absolutely no logical reason to believe at this point that the game hasn't covered all of it's costs and moved into long-term profitability. Even if it hadn't covered the development costs, it is still turning a massive profit as measured in a given fiscal year, since the major development costs are all on the books for previous years.
SWG may have still been turning a profit, since other than keeping the servers running they had basically stopped spending any money on it. That doesn't mean it was turning enough profit that it could cover the cost of renewing the license, which likely would not have been cheap, even if both parties had been willing in theory. As for why it didn't go freemium? It's player base was probably so small they decided the expense of adding a cash shop probably wouldn't get covered by the cash shop's revenue anyway.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I am neither dishonest or delusional, my comments are based off what EA/BW have actually said, not what might be the case.
Before F2P EA even said its performance was not good despite the 2 million sales, and just under 1 million subs
The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".
If they had covered their costs and now making profits they would be shouting it from the rooftops, so there is no logical reason to think they are now making profits, and to think that is just optimistic assumption.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I've never been a huge fan of "end game" in any of the MMORPGs I've played. In WoW I spent nearly all my time doing dailies and in battle grounds. I did get into raids and such, but I always waited until someone asked. It wasn't really something I went looking to do.
It sounds like SWToR has the same kind of setup that I wouldn't be interested in. A lot of people seem to be happy with it though. For someone who is into end game raiding and raid progression, SWToR seems to provide a good model of it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The game launched on December 20 2011 and you are quoting press release from like 2 years over. What is the matter with you must you resort to such lies to support your case ? Pathetic hater really they have said they have gotten over 500k but oh no you have not produced that quote because it does not support your hater pov.
I brought up the link to respond to Cazneergs comment "More than two million sales of the game back before it was F2P, many of them direct digital sales from EA."
not to try and hate on the game.
Cazneerg stated it as if it was some awesome stats, yet EA themselves said those stats were poor.
So SWTOR fans can pull 2 years news out but not any one else? That is pathetic attitude and makes any discussion good or bad about SWTOR pointless.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
You are still being awfully selective. I listed the sales number along with other elements, to illustrate how many different substantial revenue streams had come together in the history of the game, not as an attempt to say that that number by itself had made them profitable.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
OP
In my opinion ......................................................N O T H I N G
good thing that is my IMO and i also stated that. The game is crap imo, why, because they spent 100million USD on it and its brings not innovative to the table, its all WoW in its early stage but with lightsabers.
measuring success based just on the amount of player base alone is dumb in it self. If i aim to get every single player that likes to be able to kill anyone in a game as they want and i get 80% of that population then i would say that is considered success.
I'll bite, the IP might not be the only factor but its the largest by far, look what it is up against ATM, there is no other game out there like it the closest to is EVE. The genera, the IP and the story line. ONCE again I feel the game is crap because it is way to simple and similar to WoW when it first came out. WoW was great when it came it, if it was just now coming out it wouldnt see the light of day. SWTOR is missing just to much of everything for it to be "good" atm I would rate it "ok' IF they didnt spend 100million USD on it.
Good thread.
What hooked me in was playing on the Empire side as a sith sorcerer. I played Tie Fighter years ago but I'd never played a game that took you that far in depth into the Empire, the dark side, etc. It was extremely addictive. SWTOR gives Star Wars fans a chance to play for the Empire in a way that no other game's ever presented.
Apart from that I think the graphics, at least the character graphics, are vastly underrated. The animations and attack moves look great.
It offers a high tech setting in the Star Wars universe, which is a huge departure from most generic fantasy MMOs. It's not like loading up Guild Wars 2 and going "oh yay I get to play a necromancer...AGAIN".
I think the voice acting was a bit overdone, but now all other MMOs suddenly feel like silent movies from 1932. It could have been implemented little better in my opinion but it's still a huge advancement over all other MMOs.
The biggest hurdle for SWTOR was it didn't offer the vast array of customization that WoW has. It didn't launch with a customisable UI and that was a big deal to alot of players. But in all fairness it's caught up sufficiently and it's as good as anything out there. I'm sure the cash shop generates alot of money mainly due to the fact that it's virtual Star Wars memerobilia.
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Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
No need to be sorry its your believe of the game. Either you miss the point or you are just looking for some straw to grab at. Success is what every you believe it is for your product. If mine was to make 10million dollars is X time and I am pretty close to doing so then I would consider that successful.
This whole talk is nothing more then peoples thoughts on this game and what they feel the game has done correctly, I pointed out what I think is it has done correctly and that is: utilizing the IP, great story and exploiting the genera. It would be a unjustice to leave it there without also stating the game is boring, wow with lightsabers during early wow, and simply simple with no innovation to its name.
The game (imo) clearly wasnt looking to be something new but something the same, for me that is extremely boring.
I do hate the game, why, because it was extremely disappointing from my point of view, any time I log in a game and stand around for a hour out of boredom then the game has failed me.
I dont recall stating I am not looking or found a game I like, from what I understand this thread wasnt made to be a circle jerk but more of a opinion from those that played the game and what they believe is good about it. The good and bad come hand in hand. TBH I have the collectors ed. and wanted to the game to do well and from what I understand it is doing very well which is good because they may be meeting what ever goal they had for it. My goal was to invest my time into a game that Bioware is known for while using a IP I love one of the most. What I got wasnt even close to what Bioware has been known for in the past (halfway, story lines are good), openness and freedom of the game just isnt there nor is a lot that I wont go into much detail about.
ESO is much closer to what my idea of a good MMO is but there will be so many haters pointing out the flaws from that game which is fine and I might just learn something from them who knows.
Yes! if a game has levels, end game, and pvp, it's definitely copied straight from WoW!
Like, the code is exactly the same! They actually stole the code! Blizz should sue.
World of Star Warcraft.
Going by some of the logic in this thread, EA apparently mastered black magic or mind control and thus will conquer the world in 30 days or something. /Facpalm.
I play SWTOR and I play it because of the Class story. I still haven't seen every one of them and some require multiple play through to see it all; e.g. Operative.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.