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Preorder ESO: Play any race in any alliance.

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  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Guys, I know it is a bit a bummer on faction pride,

    I don't see why it's a "bummer" on faction pride.

    People will still "be" of that faction and will revel or commiserate on each win and loss the same as before.

     

    Not only that but I have my doubts that it will even be a common occurrence.  I've always been a moderate on this issue and have been saying all along that if they found a way to have a limited number of players playing as defectors in the "wrong" faction. I'd like that.

     

    Seems to me like they found a way to do just that - not quite as limited as I would have liked but close enough.

    Iselin, on this issue I think you're deluding yourself.  Tamariel Foundry brings up a very good point.  I'm okay with other races being in different alliances as defectors, but that's not what's going to happen.  You're going to have a majority of people that aren't even elves or cats fighting as the Dominion for example.  This isn't because no one will play elves, but who's to say they will all go Dominion.  It's going to be exactly like GW2 where alliance is just a name now.  The lore they put forward is destroyed. If they didn't make it so race focused, maybe this could work.  I just don't see how.  You seem to think that this is going to be an option for pre-order and that's it.  There's no way that can stand.  You really think that is going to be the case?  The amount of people complaining that they can't play any alliance will be flooding their forums, Twitter, Facebook.  

    I'm all for allowing a system of defectors, but this....this was a big fn mistake in my opinion.   At this point I hope they do a big lore rewrite and look at some their quests, but that's not going to happen.  Lol can't believe they dropped such a monumental change so close to their launch.  Hopefully they have a plan to address all of this, but something tells me that they don't.  They're going for the cash grab and the game will suffer in the long run because of it.  Oh well,  go team yellow I suppose?

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Guys, I know it is a bit a bummer on faction pride,

    I don't see why it's a "bummer" on faction pride.

    People will still "be" of that faction and will revel or commiserate on each win and loss the same as before.

     

    Not only that but I have my doubts that it will even be a common occurrence.  I've always been a moderate on this issue and have been saying all along that if they found a way to have a limited number of players playing as defectors in the "wrong" faction. I'd like that.

     

    Seems to me like they found a way to do just that - not quite as limited as I would have liked but close enough.

    Iselin, on this issue I think you're deluding yourself.  Tamariel Foundry brings up a very good point.  I'm okay with other races being in different alliances as defectors, but that's not what's going to happen.  You're going to have a majority of people that aren't even elves or cats fighting as the Dominion for example.  This isn't because no one will play elves, but who's to say they will all go Dominion.  It's going to be exactly like GW2 where alliance is just a name now.  The lore they put forward is destroyed. If they didn't make it so race focused, maybe this could work.  I just don't see how.  You seem to think that this is going to be an option for pre-order and that's it.  There's no way that can stand.  You really think that is going to be the case?  The amount of people complaining that they can't play any alliance will be flooding their forums, Twitter, Facebook.  

    I'm all for allowing a system of defectors, but this....this was a big fn mistake in my opinion.   At this point I hope they do a big lore rewrite and look at some their quests, but that's not going to happen.  Lol can't believe they dropped such a monumental change so close to their launch.  Hopefully they have a plan to address all of this, but something tells me that they don't.  They're going for the cash grab and the game will suffer in the long run because of it.  Oh well,  go team yellow I suppose?

    Yeah I read Atropos' editorial yesterday. What you both fear may come to pass but I don't think it will.

     

    First, it requires a pre-purchase and not everyone will do that; and second, the vast majority of people who still intend to play in the appropriate alliance-as I do--will make that a requirement for joining their guild - just how already there are many guilds run by people who dislike the multi-guild system, that have a requirement to be only in that one guild.

     

    You could be right and I could be wrong but I don't think that in the end choosing to play in an "off alliance" will be as popular as you think.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • imno007imno007 Member Posts: 8

    The really sad thing is that probably more than 50% percent of the people here going on about how horrible the game is or will be, and about how horrible Bethseda is for making this decision, and a hundred others, will be there on day one playing the game. Which is too bad, because the rest of us who don't agree with you will have to continue to endure even more of your constant griping about the game not being "true to lore" and not being "fair" because some people had $20 more to spend on a preorder, etc. Seriously, put your money where your mouth is, refuse to support the company for not creating the game you wanted, and do not buy the game. You will be happier, and the people who just don't give a crap about all that, like me, can buy the game and enjoy it, sans your constant bellyaching. We'll ALL be happier!

     

    Now I'm going to purchase my Imperial Edition....

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by imno007

    The really sad thing is that probably more than 50% percent of the people here going on about how horrible the game is or will be, and about how horrible Bethseda is for making this decision, and a hundred others, will be there on day one playing the game. Which is too bad, because the rest of us who don't agree with you will have to continue to endure even more of your constant griping about the game not being "true to lore" and not being "fair" because some people had $20 more to spend on a preorder, etc. Seriously, put your money where your mouth is, refuse to support the company for not creating the game you wanted, and do not buy the game. You will be happier, and the people who just don't give a crap about all that, like me, can buy the game and enjoy it, sans your constant bellyaching. We'll ALL be happier!

     

    Now I'm going to purchase my Imperial Edition....

    Have fun playing Elder Nord Dunmer Scrolls Online.

  • FearumFearum Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Guys, I know it is a bit a bummer on faction pride,

    I don't see why it's a "bummer" on faction pride.

    People will still "be" of that faction and will revel or commiserate on each win and loss the same as before.

     

    There is nothing unique about the factions now. Just the color they represent. Before at least they had the different races and racial trees, I know that wasn't much but it was something. Also with the racials there is going to be more of a focus on perfect builds, example you will see all warrior types going for the same races throughout all the alliances, so huge groups of nords yellow blue and red all fighting each other instead of elves fighting nords and orcs.... ahh never mind you see it differently and don't care.

    A big generic army fighting for a color is so bland. Just about as bland as good and evil. Now I will fight for yellow, yay. Thanks ZOS.

  • IneveraskforthisIneveraskforthis Member Posts: 374
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by imno007

    The really sad thing is that probably more than 50% percent of the people here going on about how horrible the game is or will be, and about how horrible Bethseda is for making this decision, and a hundred others, will be there on day one playing the game. Which is too bad, because the rest of us who don't agree with you will have to continue to endure even more of your constant griping about the game not being "true to lore" and not being "fair" because some people had $20 more to spend on a preorder, etc. Seriously, put your money where your mouth is, refuse to support the company for not creating the game you wanted, and do not buy the game. You will be happier, and the people who just don't give a crap about all that, like me, can buy the game and enjoy it, sans your constant bellyaching. We'll ALL be happier!

     

    Now I'm going to purchase my Imperial Edition....

    Have fun playing Elder Nord Dunmer Scrolls Online.

    It is sad that the cyrodiil will fill with Nord fighting Nord.

    Nord's everywhere.

     

  • Skeeter50Skeeter50 Member UncommonPosts: 147
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Guys, I know it is a bit a bummer on faction pride,

    I don't see why it's a "bummer" on faction pride.

    People will still "be" of that faction and will revel or commiserate on each win and loss the same as before.

     

    Not only that but I have my doubts that it will even be a common occurrence.  I've always been a moderate on this issue and have been saying all along that if they found a way to have a limited number of players playing as defectors in the "wrong" faction. I'd like that.

     

    Seems to me like they found a way to do just that - not quite as limited as I would have liked but close enough.

    Iselin, on this issue I think you're deluding yourself.  Tamariel Foundry brings up a very good point.  I'm okay with other races being in different alliances as defectors, but that's not what's going to happen.  You're going to have a majority of people that aren't even elves or cats fighting as the Dominion for example.  This isn't because no one will play elves, but who's to say they will all go Dominion.  It's going to be exactly like GW2 where alliance is just a name now.  The lore they put forward is destroyed. If they didn't make it so race focused, maybe this could work.  I just don't see how.  You seem to think that this is going to be an option for pre-order and that's it.  There's no way that can stand.  You really think that is going to be the case?  The amount of people complaining that they can't play any alliance will be flooding their forums, Twitter, Facebook.  

    I'm all for allowing a system of defectors, but this....this was a big fn mistake in my opinion.   At this point I hope they do a big lore rewrite and look at some their quests, but that's not going to happen.  Lol can't believe they dropped such a monumental change so close to their launch.  Hopefully they have a plan to address all of this, but something tells me that they don't.  They're going for the cash grab and the game will suffer in the long run because of it.  Oh well,  go team yellow I suppose?

    Foundry lost all credibility in their tears of lore proclamations by ignoring the fact the AD is not the Thalmor in ESO. I am sure the game makers under the watch full eye of the TES lore master knows alittle bit more than "fans".

     

    I would bet, that even the self proclaimed experts will learn the lore IN GAME as intended!

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by Skeeter50
     

    Foundry lost all credibility in their tears of lore proclamations by ignoring the fact the AD is not the Thalmor in ESO. I am sure the game makers under the watch full eye of the TES lore master knows alittle bit more than "fans".

    Oh really?  so when AD is filled with Dunmer and Nords and maybe 20% of the alliance has Altmer in it, what say you?

     

  • SonOfValmarSonOfValmar Member Posts: 49
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by muffins89

    "Zenimax,  let us play any race in any alliance!!!"

    "No."

    "Boo.  you guys are so stupid."

    "Ok,  you can play any race in any alliance."

    "Boo.  you guys are so stuipid."

    Pretty much.

    What a hilarious way to discredit someone's argument by taking all context away from the points being made.

    It is a shame you have decided to blind yourself to real discussion by using such tactics. You realize this only makes you less approachable while fostering a negative image of your forum persona, which in turn creates an air of distrust when it comes to your opinions and discussions in future topics.

    You really should look into less attacks on peoples' credibility by marginalizing their arguments in ridiculous ways and try to actually engage in meaningful discussion. However, what do I really know because you may enjoy your current behavior too much to see what improvements could be made in your behavior.

  • SpriggenSpriggen Member Posts: 21
    No no no. This shouldn't be in the game at all let alone a pre order feature. This is lore breaking. Immersion killer is what this is. The altmer dominion with human races in it? Orcs? Dunmer even!
  • SonOfValmarSonOfValmar Member Posts: 49
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Guys, I know it is a bit a bummer on faction pride,

    I don't see why it's a "bummer" on faction pride.

    People will still "be" of that faction and will revel or commiserate on each win and loss the same as before.

     

    Not only that but I have my doubts that it will even be a common occurrence.  I've always been a moderate on this issue and have been saying all along that if they found a way to have a limited number of players playing as defectors in the "wrong" faction. I'd like that.

     

    Seems to me like they found a way to do just that - not quite as limited as I would have liked but close enough.

    It is very intriguing to me watching you dance around the implications of the Play Any Race, Any Faction Explorer's Pack. As I recall, many months ago, you were an ardent defender of the DAOC 3 Locked Factions playstyle and were quite looking forward to it. You believed that the Locked Faction philosophy was a correct one and that the AvAvA in ESO would be greatly enhanced from this concept. You were also disappointed Zenimax decided to let players travel outside of their faction zones at level 50 but ultimately saw the compromise in such action.

     

    However, I am unsure how you could see this as being a moderate compromise. By adding in the Any Race, Any Faction perk to the Explorer's Pack they have backpedaled on their previous reasoning for designing the game in the DAOC Locked Faction format. Many of the other systems in the game such as the: lore, pvp, zones, quest dialogue, etc revolved around this Locked Faction design. Effectively, what we have here in this perk is Zenimax undermining their own design philosophies of the game itself. And this does even take into consideration that we now know quests will hardly take your race into account in a meaningful way, unless this was a decision they made many moons ago which is even more disingenuous towards their original defense of the Locked Factions. It makes one wonder what other design concepts Zenimax might throw to the wolves for profit and why they did not just design the game with an open faction/world in mind if they could be so easily persuaded away from their original intent.

     

    I am also curious as to why you believe the Explorer's Pack will not be purchasable after pre-orders are completed. A cash shop will exist in ESO, this much is certain. If Zenimax was willing to undermine their core design in Locked Factions, then what makes you believe they will not also allow people to purchase such an ability once the game goes live? I understand you want to enjoy the game; however, you seem to be responding to these decisions of Zenimaxs' with dubious logic in order to justify your continued support for this game even though they are backtracking on the very model you were so in favor of before (DAOC style Locked Factions). It is interesting to watch if nothing else.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by Fearum

    There is nothing unique about the factions now. Just the color they represent. Before at least they had the different races and racial trees, I know that wasn't much but it was something. Also with the racials there is going to be more of a focus on perfect builds, example you will see all warrior types going for the same races throughout all the alliances, so huge groups of nords yellow blue and red all fighting each other instead of elves fighting nords and orcs.... ahh never mind you see it differently and don't care.

    A big generic army fighting for a color is so bland. Just about as bland as good and evil. Now I will fight for yellow, yay. Thanks ZOS.

    Nothing unique?  Each faction doesn't still have it's own story and culture?

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by Fearum

    There is nothing unique about the factions now. Just the color they represent. Before at least they had the different races and racial trees, I know that wasn't much but it was something. Also with the racials there is going to be more of a focus on perfect builds, example you will see all warrior types going for the same races throughout all the alliances, so huge groups of nords yellow blue and red all fighting each other instead of elves fighting nords and orcs.... ahh never mind you see it differently and don't care.

    A big generic army fighting for a color is so bland. Just about as bland as good and evil. Now I will fight for yellow, yay. Thanks ZOS.

    Nothing unique?  Each faction doesn't still have it's own story and culture?

    It's not anyone's fault for being upset with this change.  It's Zenimax's fault.  They wrote the lore and Elder Scrolls is all about lore.  They chose to make the conflict of the three alliances all about race.  Here look at this decree from the Queen from Aldmeri Dominion.

     

    "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age.  I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims.

    The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason.  We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. 

    Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

    Stand with us."

    http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/alliances/aldmeri-dominion

    They specifically call out races in that post.  That's the reason for the Dominion for being formed.  They're like Aw Hell no.  Humans can't take over the throne, we got to do something.  That will be a disaster.

    Now seeing that, does it make any sense that anyone can join any alliance?  That humans could be the majority of players on the AD alliance side?  The whole thing is just FUBAR.  Now for those that don't care about the lore and only want pew, pew - sure this means nothing.  For anyone else following this, it would be a little unnerving if not turn them completely off the game.

    I said before and I will say again that they should update the lore now for the Alliance to take this new development into account.  Otherwise the whole thing makes no sense.

     

     

     

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Member Posts: 379
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Guys, I know it is a bit a bummer on faction pride,

    I don't see why it's a "bummer" on faction pride.

    People will still "be" of that faction and will revel or commiserate on each win and loss the same as before.

     

    There is nothing unique about the factions now. Just the color they represent. Before at least they had the different races and racial trees, I know that wasn't much but it was something.

    Because fighting for racism is somehow less cliche than 'good or evil,' let alone the more nuanced concepts each of the factions appeal to?

    Or is it the mechanics you're pinging off?  Ebonheart has the monopoly on the best warriors, Aldmeri has the best mages etc.   Also something that doesn't really appeal to me.

    Also with the racials there is going to be more of a focus on perfect builds, example you will see all warrior types going for the same races throughout all the alliances,

    You're assuming the Perfect Build will be both obvious and uncontroversial.

    Which is not an unreasonable assumption, but I'd prefer there to at least be room for debate on which of multiple different builds is 'best.' 

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by jdnyc

    It's not anyone's fault for being upset with this change.  It's Zenimax's fault.  They wrote the lore and Elder Scrolls is all about lore.  They chose to make the conflict of the three alliances all about race.  Here look at this decree from the Queen from Aldmeri Dominion. 

    "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age.  I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims.

    The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason.  We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. 

    Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

    Stand with us."

    http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/alliances/aldmeri-dominion

    They specifically call out races in that post.  That's the reason for the Dominion for being formed.  They're like Aw Hell no.  Humans can't take over the throne, we got to do something.  That will be a disaster.

    Now seeing that, does it make any sense that anyone can join any alliance?  That humans could be the majority of players on the AD alliance side?  The whole thing is just FUBAR.  Now for those that don't care about the lore and only want pew, pew - sure this means nothing.  For anyone else following this, it would be a little unnerving if not turn them completely off the game.

    I said before and I will say again that they should update the lore now for the Alliance to take this new development into account.  Otherwise the whole thing makes no sense.

    Let's wait until the NDA drops.  Then you can tell me what there is actually in the game that renders it inconsistent with the lore for every faction to have some people from every race.  In the game, not on the website.  Lore, not marketing text.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Member Posts: 379
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Skeeter50
     

    Foundry lost all credibility in their tears of lore proclamations by ignoring the fact the AD is not the Thalmor in ESO. I am sure the game makers under the watch full eye of the TES lore master knows alittle bit more than "fans".

    Oh really?  so when AD is filled with Dunmer and Nords and maybe 20% of the alliance has Altmer in it, what say you?

    It will depend on the specific details of what is causing that particular distribution.  But based on current speculation, I'll go with "beats watching Ebonheart have a 5:1 population advantage over every other alliance" for now.

  • Was mildly interested in this game and might even have played it for a while. But I think it best if I just boycot it now, so no ESO for me. The Realm vs Realm PvP was the thing the game had going for it (for me), but now all the Realms are the same.

     

    But I think overall Zenimax will sell more preorders as a result of removing the race/faction locks. Which is obviously their goal. One could then of course pose the question "Why they eager to sell preorders to the point that they are willing to break the internal logic of the game for it?"

    Has the NDA been raised yet?

  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,643
    Originally posted by KaosProphet
     

    Yes.  Because there were black men fighting for the Confederate states, and confederate soldiers who let them.

    It will get a little questionable if a human becomes Emperor while fighting for the AD, particularly if (as is likely the case) the player behind him gives not a whit for the background lore.  But we'll manage.

    Nah.  People will get bored and quit after a couple of months like every MMORPG that fails to incorporate a thematic world into their Themepark structured experience.  Plenty of other PVP games do Meta much better.  Mainly because the matches are shorter and way more refined.  DOTA2 and LOL instantly come to mind.  You can throw Starcraft 2 in there as well.

    There's now not much of a discernible difference between ESO AvA PVP and GW2 WVW PVP.  It's all about the points and Team color vs. another Team color.  LULz.  I iz Dark Elf and so can you.

    p.s. Your analogy beyond sucks.  We're not talking about a smattering of other races in one alliance or another.  We're talking about the majority of the alliance could be made up of a race that shouldn't even really be fighting for that side to begin with.  It is what it is at this point and no going back.

  • For me its not worth it to preorder or prepuchase any game before try it . If i get into beta i will decide to buy it or not...

    I hope i can get in any beta to try game because i really want to start a fresh, polished game.

  • RelGnRelGn Member Posts: 494

    Seriously are you going to preorder without the nda lifted?

     

    hmmm

    image
  • o-breedo-breed Member CommonPosts: 51

    Why is everybody complaining? You don't even care for the next WoW-clone! /sarcasm.

    There's a rumor you guys were already complaining about race restrictions - and even if that's untrue - this whole discussion sucks - like complaining about a x-mas present! Grow up!

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] UncommonPosts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • danisheraserdanisheraser Member UncommonPosts: 33

    Oh my god. People and all their doomsday prophecies. Give me a break!

    Yes it could be discussed if all races should be allowed in each alliance, but they chose not to. It gives the game an edge. Like it or not.

    Then they decide, that people who wishes to pay extra for the game, gets the benefit, if you chose to call it that, to play in any alliance they want. What the hell is wrong with that? Because of this, some here, foresee the doom of the game. It's so pathetic to read.

    I am no "fanboy", but a player who sees too many bored people on these forums, who can't find anything constructive to say, besides flame a game that isn't even launched yet.

     

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by jdnyc

    p.s. Your analogy beyond sucks.  We're not talking about a smattering of other races in one alliance or another.  We're talking about the majority of the alliance could be made up of a race that shouldn't even really be fighting for that side to begin with.  It is what it is at this point and no going back.

    Actually, we are talking about a game where even if the player character's race should have narrative weight, it doesn't.  There is no sign, anywhere, that any NPC ever recognizes your character's race and responds differently because of it.  Player race in ESO is just a cosmetic skin and some passive skills, so it really has no narrative impact what race the majority of players in an alliance pick, because if you do become Emperor, you aren't a Breton Emperor, or a Nord Emperor, or an Altmer Emperor.  You are just a DC Emperor, an AD Emperor, or an EP Emperor.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Originally posted by RollieJoe

    At this point now that we know the facts about the preorder and deluxe edition perks, which include access to more races with bonuses, faster mounts, and more, anyone who thinks this game won't launch (or add shortly after launch) a cash-shop selling cosmetic AND non-cosmetic goods is simply naïve. 

     

    Box sales made companies lots of money.  Subscriptions every month made them more.   F2P/P2W cash shops made them even more than that.  But now they have realized, why not have box sales, subscriptions, AND a F2P/P2W cash shop, all three at the same time?!   Welcome to MMO's in 2014.  Massive Money Obtainers

    The Imperial with passives something all the races have.

    Faster mounts? Where did you pull this from? Sheesh

    And more? You mean allowing players access to the imperial crafting style right off instead of learning it in game? Or the cosmetic item to make your armor look of imperial make? Or the vanity pets? So game breaking those are!

    The only thing that could be in the " shop " would be the explorers pack and the imperial unlock ( probably ) for those that missed / did not preorder. And that would be their fault since Zenimax is giving the first for free for just preordering and the latter in the CE.

    The sky isnt falling no matter how much you scream for it to be so.

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