Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Ok lets judge as an MMO and an RPG!
As an MMO its bland and offers nothing new, it takes staples from old outdated games and places it into one box during a time when the genre is stagnant from similar concepts. This is equal to take a small amount from many piles of crap and placing into one large pile. YAY!
So as an MMO, it brings nothing new.
As an RPG it limits your freedom in ways unseen in ANY other RPG ever made. The game is split into 4, 2 of those parts you will never see with your character because of invisible walls, even after unlocking them at max level, another thing you never see in an RPG because its stupid, you will not have the quests actually deisgned for players of that "faction", you instead get a more advanced storyling, something that you would also be able to do in an ACTUAL RPG where you can play 100% of the game.
Another part of that game forces you to fight other players, something you never have to do in another RPG thus making that quarter of the game a royal PITA for RPGers. Worst yet, you can be going about your game playing and suddenly another player may come along and kill the thing you just ran 10 minutes to get to so you can complete generic quest #739. You are faced with MMO limitations in crafting, something you don't see in RPGs. Hell, when I think about it I cant find a single thing in this "RPG" that beats any other "RPG" as it offers nothing that stands out.
In terms of story for an RPG, it would be horrible. You are in a world where factions have arisen to try to take over a fallen empire no longer a threat to anyone even though all factions are protected from war by a magical barrier no one can see all while the God of Rape is invading everyone's lands wanting to enslave the world, which doesn't matter because there is a chance of crowning Legolazzz the new emperor!
So, even attempting to review it as an RPG its full of blandness and brings nothing new to the genre while other RPGs push the genre beyond its limits. It only gets worse when comparing it to upcoming MMOs like Shroud of the Avatar, Landmark, Blade and Soul or upcoming RPGs like The Witcher 3.
Lack of innovation shows lack of ideas and thus lack of talent.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.
IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.
I can have 1 month of Netflix for $7 with many hours of fun and entertaining movies. what say you?
itsnt equal when compare ESO to a game that i dont even heard the name untill you said it. lol
plz compare ESO to Skyrim in the $60 price, which one will you get?
TESO 10 times .. thanks for asking tho. I play mmorpgs only, but you know? Thats me, I would pay even 50 dollars subs for one game and I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. U guys who cry over subs, you should just look for game that has no sub instead of crying over the game that has one.
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.
IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.
I agree with you but then just consider who much value you get from GW2 or TSW that has no sub fee
But yes in all fairness I agree on every point with you mmorpg with a sub is totally worth it.
Nonthing, played both, gw2 no endgame, no expansion ever, same armor and weapons for 100 years. TSW .. not fantasy, ugly animations and combat, lol
I agree, I think 80 bucks for the best game that's came out in over 5 years is a small price to pay considering the crap mmo's that are being released with crap budgets these days. Value well worth it.
I'm sure you'll hear people call this a cash grab, but the fact is... What game out there that is Free to Play even offers the same level of QUALITY as your going to get in ESO without having to pay out your ass, only one I can think of that's even half as good quality as ESO would be Rift.
You want high quality, you have to pay for it. Just like when you buy cheap coat hangers Made in China which cost only 1 buck for 20, and by the next laudry cycle every single one of them are broken, no thanks. Id rather spend 80 bucks, pay a sub and get a HIGH QUALITY game.
Some people don't even know what the meaning of cash grab really is these days. A Cash grab is charging your players 60-100 bucks for a ALPHA TEST.
Lets face it, back in 2003 when I first started playing games, games were $15 a month sub, if you were to add 3% cost of inflation every year which is $0.45 a year for 12 years straight, subs should be $20.40 a month. Just the fact that subs remained at $15.00 a month for a HIGH QUALITY GAME, is saying ALOT, and by no means a cash grab. If you call 15 dollars a month a cash grab you really really need to get a job....
If you think ESO should be the same price as Low Quality Free to Play games, you just don't understand economics. Its that simple. When you have HIGH QUALITY you have to pay for it. The world isn't going to give you a an once of gold for the price of an once of silver that's just how it is.
SWTOR is a high quality, AAA, themepark MMORPG that you can play almost the entire game without dropping a cent on it.
High price point does not automatically equal high quality.
Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Ok lets judge as an MMO and an RPG!
As an MMO its bland and offers nothing new, it takes staples from old outdated games and places it into one box during a time when the genre is stagnant from similar concepts. This is equal to take a small amount from many piles of crap and placing into one large pile. YAY!
So as an MMO, it brings nothing new.
As an RPG it limits your freedom in ways unseen in ANY other RPG ever made. The game is split into 4, 2 of those parts you will never see with your character because of invisible walls, even after unlocking them at max level, another thing you never see in an RPG because its stupid, you will not have the quests actually deisgned for players of that "faction", you instead get a more advanced storyling, something that you would also be able to do in an ACTUAL RPG where you can play 100% of the game.
Another part of that game forces you to fight other players, something you never have to do in another RPG thus making that quarter of the game a royal PITA for RPGers. Worst yet, you can be going about your game playing and suddenly another player may come along and kill the thing you just ran 10 minutes to get to so you can complete generic quest #739. You are faced with MMO limitations in crafting, something you don't see in RPGs. Hell, when I think about it I cant find a single thing in this "RPG" that beats any other "RPG" as it offers nothing that stands out.
In terms of story for an RPG, it would be horrible. You are in a world where factions have arisen to try to take over a fallen empire no longer a threat to anyone even though all factions are protected from war by a magical barrier no one can see all while the God of Rape is invading everyone's lands wanting to enslave the world, which doesn't matter because there is a chance of crowning Legolazzz the new emperor!
So, even attempting to review it as an RPG its full of blandness and brings nothing new to the genre while other RPGs push the genre beyond its limits. It only gets worse when comparing it to upcoming MMOs like Shroud of the Avatar, Landmark, Blade and Soul or upcoming RPGs like The Witcher 3.
Lack of innovation shows lack of ideas and thus lack of talent.
lol, this is a review of the game from your point of view, you cant expect everyone to also feel the way you do. Or there wouldn't be millions who are going to play this game.
I just bought South Park: The Stick of Truth, and although I'm having a wonderful time, it made me realize what I was getting for my $60 compared to ESO and other mmorpgs. Any of you upset about paying $60 for ESO, and then having to pay a sub fee, should compare any new release of a single player game, and then you may think twice about complaining.
I have read that you can complete the main quest in South Park in about 9 hours. The side quests and the main quest in about 30 hours. You have 4 classes you could play through for a total of about 120 hours, but I don't usually replay content of this nature again even if it is with another class.
IMHO, mmorpgs are better for the price, you get more content and re-playability, and the price should never be used as a debate issue in these forums.
I agree with you but then just consider who much value you get from GW2 or TSW that has no sub fee
But yes in all fairness I agree on every point with you mmorpg with a sub is totally worth it.
Nonthing, played both, gw2 no endgame, no expansion ever, same armor and weapons for 100 years. TSW .. not fantasy, ugly animations and combat, lol
True, and because its Free after the box price, theres no real team there to develop updates like ESO will be able to at 4-6 weeks bringing in far more content on ESO then GW2 will ever see.
Yeah and what would happen if McDonald's decided to stop serving everything on its menu and sold Mongolian food.
Do you think those millions of people would continue to eat there?
But that is not a proper analogy, how about instead we replace McDonald's with a 5 star restaurant and then ask, if they started to serve the McDonalds menu, would people still eat there?
Because that is exactly what TESO is, a McDonalds menu of old tired MMO staples that's been done to death adding nothing new and innovative. See, you forgot that they are not making an SRPG, they are making an MMO and thus it needs to be placed into an MMO context. So again, my example applies, they are targeting TES players, most of whom are expecting the last 2 TES games in an MMO form, not getting it and those that liked the older TES games aren't getting it either, because its an MMO. One lacking in new forms of gameplay in a genre bogged down with OLD FORMS OF GAMEPLAY causing many of its players to drift yearning for something that can hold them.
Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Bethesda in recent years is McDonald's. ESO may not be a five star restaurant, but it's at least BJ's or the Cheesecake Factory compared to the Mickey D's of Skyrim, Oblivion, and Fallout 3.
EDIT:
Originally posted by squalleonaha
however, the thing we talking here is the game rating. not number of buyer.
also, the more people, the more different opinions and the harder for the game to get high rating. however, at the end skyrim still have higher rating than morrowind ( base on gamespot). that mean, it proved by many people who voted, rather than just your opinion saying morrowind the better.
And you're still confusing popularity with quality.
I think the best way to put it would be saying that MMORPG players for YEARS have been saying they wanted NEW type of MMO's other then WoW Clones, ect. They are getting that with ESO. Single players for years have been wanting their Single player games to be MMO's, like Skyrim and how the fan base tried to make SKYRIM ONLINE with mods.
ESO gives what MMO players have been asking for for years, and it also gives Single players what they have been wanting also for years. If you don't like this idea, then maybe you like WoW clones and ESO is to foreign for you, maybe its a bit like Mongolian for you, that means you wont like this game, theres other games out there, don't hate people for liking change, or it sounds like a disgruntled employee who hates his company, or the kid who doesn't want to play with others during recess.
No ones excluding you from the Next Gen gaming fun, your just excluding yourself from it because you don't like or understand it. It's foreign, its change.
ESO is a generic themepark MMORPG. It is as generic as they come.
Can you tell me one thing that ESO innovates on or one thing new that ESO brings to the table that is not copy/pasted from other MMORPGs?
What at exactly have MMORPG gamers been saying they want for years that ESO delivers?
Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Ok lets judge as an MMO and an RPG!
As an MMO its bland and offers nothing new, it takes staples from old outdated games and places it into one box during a time when the genre is stagnant from similar concepts. This is equal to take a small amount from many piles of crap and placing into one large pile. YAY!
So as an MMO, it brings nothing new.
As an RPG it limits your freedom in ways unseen in ANY other RPG ever made. The game is split into 4, 2 of those parts you will never see with your character because of invisible walls, even after unlocking them at max level, another thing you never see in an RPG because its stupid, you will not have the quests actually deisgned for players of that "faction", you instead get a more advanced storyling, something that you would also be able to do in an ACTUAL RPG where you can play 100% of the game.
Another part of that game forces you to fight other players, something you never have to do in another RPG thus making that quarter of the game a royal PITA for RPGers. Worst yet, you can be going about your game playing and suddenly another player may come along and kill the thing you just ran 10 minutes to get to so you can complete generic quest #739. You are faced with MMO limitations in crafting, something you don't see in RPGs. Hell, when I think about it I cant find a single thing in this "RPG" that beats any other "RPG" as it offers nothing that stands out.
In terms of story for an RPG, it would be horrible. You are in a world where factions have arisen to try to take over a fallen empire no longer a threat to anyone even though all factions are protected from war by a magical barrier no one can see all while the God of Rape is invading everyone's lands wanting to enslave the world, which doesn't matter because there is a chance of crowning Legolazzz the new emperor!
So, even attempting to review it as an RPG its full of blandness and brings nothing new to the genre while other RPGs push the genre beyond its limits. It only gets worse when comparing it to upcoming MMOs like Shroud of the Avatar, Landmark, Blade and Soul or upcoming RPGs like The Witcher 3.
Lack of innovation shows lack of ideas and thus lack of talent.
lol, this is a review of the game from your point of view, you cant expect everyone to also feel the way you do. Or there wouldn't be millions who are going to play this game.
You know what, I was going to comment on his post almost the exact way you did, but just didn't want to hassle with him. It looks like a person who only sees one side and I didn't want to get into it.
My OP which I thought was very simple, and I believed would make most happy on an mmorpg site, has not really made some people happy. I'm wondering if I should have compared South Park to WoW what outcome that would have had! /shrug
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
SWTOR is a high quality, AAA, themepark MMORPG that you can play almost the entire game without dropping a cent on it.
High price point does not automatically equal high quality.
Trust me I looked into playing SWTOR while waiting for ESO release and I couldn't do it. it was way to restrictive of a gameplay if you wanted to play for free, you absoulutly have to sub if you want the full features of that game. Sure you can play free, but that qulity of that free, is far worse then ESO's sub content quality is going to be.
Actually, they are making a MMORPG, not just a MMO, so it needs to be judged as both a MMO and a RPG. Judging it as a MMO, obviously it's the best game in the series, because none of the others were MMOs. Judging it as an RPG, honestly, it's a better game than Skyrim or Oblivion. Those two games were fundamentally shallow medieval First Person Slashers with a tiny bit of RPG sprinkled on.
Ok lets judge as an MMO and an RPG!
As an MMO its bland and offers nothing new, it takes staples from old outdated games and places it into one box during a time when the genre is stagnant from similar concepts. This is equal to take a small amount from many piles of crap and placing into one large pile. YAY!
So as an MMO, it brings nothing new.
As an RPG it limits your freedom in ways unseen in ANY other RPG ever made. The game is split into 4, 2 of those parts you will never see with your character because of invisible walls, even after unlocking them at max level, another thing you never see in an RPG because its stupid, you will not have the quests actually deisgned for players of that "faction", you instead get a more advanced storyling, something that you would also be able to do in an ACTUAL RPG where you can play 100% of the game.
Another part of that game forces you to fight other players, something you never have to do in another RPG thus making that quarter of the game a royal PITA for RPGers. Worst yet, you can be going about your game playing and suddenly another player may come along and kill the thing you just ran 10 minutes to get to so you can complete generic quest #739. You are faced with MMO limitations in crafting, something you don't see in RPGs. Hell, when I think about it I cant find a single thing in this "RPG" that beats any other "RPG" as it offers nothing that stands out.
In terms of story for an RPG, it would be horrible. You are in a world where factions have arisen to try to take over a fallen empire no longer a threat to anyone even though all factions are protected from war by a magical barrier no one can see all while the God of Rape is invading everyone's lands wanting to enslave the world, which doesn't matter because there is a chance of crowning Legolazzz the new emperor!
So, even attempting to review it as an RPG its full of blandness and brings nothing new to the genre while other RPGs push the genre beyond its limits. It only gets worse when comparing it to upcoming MMOs like Shroud of the Avatar, Landmark, Blade and Soul or upcoming RPGs like The Witcher 3.
Lack of innovation shows lack of ideas and thus lack of talent.
lol, this is a review of the game from your point of view, you cant expect everyone to also feel the way you do. Or there wouldn't be millions who are going to play this game.
Woah there do you have a source for that claim? Millions of players?
Maybe 2 mill box sales with subs levelling at 200-300k is a bit more realistic methinks
No problems with a subscribtion fee either, payed nearly 8 years Anarchy Online, supported serveral free to play games with subscribtion like payments and actually spending about 10.- a month for Firefall.
First box ever was SWTOR, soon followed by TSW.
But then i had the chance to get a 7 years old Gibson Les Paul Studio for only 700.-€ and i could pay the remaining 300 bucks in 100 each month, 2 more to go, one month for ESO, my head is smoking ...
We give so mutch money for all the shit out there but developers are pretty underpayed, the buisness is dominated by brownnosing, smart- and badassing, depends who got the money.
That is, because they are artists and we kinda share some fate to a degree, music buisness is pretty mutch the same, as long as its the mainstream thing.
So, im proudly paying my bit for leeching the fun, its a loveley way to relax from the real world.
ESO is definitly on my list, for the pvp allone already and ill find a way ... like always hehe ...
With all the quality MMOs available as f2p, I just can't see that its worth paying $15 a month for ESO (or the box price either). I realize they have development costs to pay for, but why not go the GW2 model (which I bought). My main game is Lotro and I have bought the expansions, but I don't pay a monthly sub (I did go VIP for 1 month to get premium status).
I'm expecting ESO to follow the path of SWTOR and go f2p within a year. Until then I have about half a dozen f2p games that I enjoy and only spend money on when I'm ready to advance to some new feature. Over a years time, I might spend a total of $60.
PS. For those of you comparing a sub to going to a movie or eating out, I haven't been to a movie in over a year and only occasionally eat out when there is a great Groupon deal. I'm retired and frugal with my money.
You know what, I was going to comment on his post almost the exact way you did, but just didn't want to hassle with him. It looks like a person who only sees one side and I didn't want to get into it.
My OP which I thought was very simple, and I believed would make most happy on an mmorpg site, has not really made some people happy. I'm wondering if I should have compared South Park to WoW what outcome that would have had! /shrug
You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't have a discussion with people that seem to hate for no reason. Their circular logic do them in every time. Kinda like watching a dog chasing its tail. Funny really.
Usually, when people see something at a price they don't think it is worth, they forget about it. Move on. Shrug and get on with their day. That phone not worth $600? Do you petition the company to lower the price or do you continue to shop around? That pizza wasn't worth the $15 bucks you spent on it? Do you send feedback that says "pizza wasn't good" or do you say "make it cheaper?"
Or just not eat there again?
Don't think that new video card you've been eyeing is really worth 700 bucks because it only benchmarks a smidgen above its $450 cousin from another manufacturer? Do you tell them to lower the price, or do you just buy that other card?
I think, where all the 'entitlement' arguments are coming from is that the arguments for F2P don't sound very convincing. Behavior changes. Suddenly it's not a consumer deciding whether or not to consume. If you can get an adequate substitute from somewhere else, then get it. You've done it before, I'm sure. Why are you even here? This is a haggle free industry. Don't want to buy it, don't.
Instead it becomes something that sounds a lot more like whining.
I don't think it's worth the price, whatever the price is.
But I Want It.
Why do you want it? You can get substitutes elsewhere, as you've said. Whether it be RIFT, TERA, Neverwinter or something else. You're free to reconsider the value in comparison to substitutes if the price lowers. But to actively go out saying "I can get a better game elsewhere...so lower the price to be equal to that other game...so that I'll play your game and not that other one" boggles the mind. Truly.
Leave it alone. If it ain't worth it to you, then it ain't worth it. End of story.
lol, this is a review of the game from your point of view, you cant expect everyone to also feel the way you do. Or there wouldn't be millions who are going to play this game.
Never said it was otherwise, and I have said in the past that it will sell at least 2 million copies. It also wont stop most of those that buy it to stop playing, much like countless MMOs before it because it offers nothing new, like countless MMOs before it. Its one of the few constants in the genre right now, right alongside so many players thinking this one, is somehow going to be different.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
My OP which I thought was very simple, and I believed would make most happy on an mmorpg site, has not really made some people happy. I'm wondering if I should have compared South Park to WoW what outcome that would have had! /shrug
If you had compared South Park to Wow, there would have been crickets, because no ones waiting for WoW to come out and already know that game is only half as good as ESO.
Think about it. If you were given a choice to be able to ONLY play one game for the next 50 years of your life and were offered to play WoW for those 50 years, or ESO for those next 50 years... I think I made my point. haha.
With all the quality MMOs available as f2p, I just can't see that its worth paying $15 a month for ESO (or the box price either). I realize they have development costs to pay for, but why not go the GW2 model (which I bought). My main game is Lotro and I have bought the expansions, but I don't pay a monthly sub (I did go VIP for 1 month to get premium status).
I'm expecting ESO to follow the path of SWTOR and go f2p within a year. Until then I have about half a dozen f2p games that I enjoy and only spend money on when I'm ready to advance to some new feature. Over a years time, I might spend a total of $60.
PS. For those of you comparing a sub to going to a movie or eating out, I haven't been to a movie in over a year and only occasionally eat out when there is a great Groupon deal. I'm retired and frugal with my money.
Thats you I go to see movies 3+ times per month, I eat in restaurants usually 3+ times a week and I do alot more acitivities. Have no problem to pay sub for something I enjoy.
If players have problem to pay for sub, or they think it is not worth it. WHO is forcing them to pay one, no one is forcing you to play the game NO ONE (if someone does, call 911 or 112):D So just go play free to play games, which are the best ones, those p2p are not worth it anyway, as you said. Go .. No one gives a fu**
SWTOR is a high quality, AAA, themepark MMORPG that you can play almost the entire game without dropping a cent on it.
High price point does not automatically equal high quality.
Trust me I looked into playing SWTOR while waiting for ESO release and I couldn't do it. it was way to restrictive of a gameplay if you wanted to play for free, you absoulutly have to sub if you want the full features of that game. Sure you can play free, but that qulity of that free, is far worse then ESO's sub content quality is going to be.
Apologies let me clarify.
You can spend around £10 and remove all of those restrictions - then have access to virtually the entire game for free. Either way it's a high quality game with a much more reasonable pricing menu and more content options than ESOs model (charging for races, really?)
You know what, I was going to comment on his post almost the exact way you did, but just didn't want to hassle with him. It looks like a person who only sees one side and I didn't want to get into it.
Funny how the most closed minded people not only call other people closed minded, but then in turn act so high and mighty that they "cant be bothered" to speak with them when refuted.
That's the difference between being open minded and closed minded. Seeing the refute, and refuting back directly to those refutes.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
ESO is a generic themepark MMORPG. It is as generic as they come.
Can you tell me one thing that ESO innovates on or one thing new that ESO brings to the table that is not copy/pasted from other MMORPGs?
What at exactly have MMORPG gamers been saying they want for years that ESO delivers?
I like generic thempark. I also like to buy car with 4 wheels, not 5+. I do like Pizza with generic ingredients, not with chocolate and watermelon ...
What YOU want boy, is not what I want.
First of all I'm not your boy.
Second of all I was responding to Knotwood who stated that ESO gives us what MMORPG gamers have been wanting for years...I was simply stating that ESO is exactly the same as every other generic themepark MMORPG released in the last ten years and offers nothing new. Which it doesn't.
i like themepark MMORPGs too...so good for you...but saying ESO gives gamers what they have wanted for years is simply disingenuous because all it delivers is the same thing we have had in every MMORPG since WoW and DAOC.
As an MMO its bland and offers nothing new, it takes staples from old outdated games and places it into one box during a time when the genre is stagnant from similar concepts. This is equal to take a small amount from many piles of crap and placing into one large pile. YAY!
So as an MMO, it brings nothing new.
As an RPG it limits your freedom in ways unseen in ANY other RPG ever made. The game is split into 4, 2 of those parts you will never see with your character because of invisible walls, even after unlocking them at max level, another thing you never see in an RPG because its stupid, you will not have the quests actually deisgned for players of that "faction", you instead get a more advanced storyling, something that you would also be able to do in an ACTUAL RPG where you can play 100% of the game.
Another part of that game forces you to fight other players, something you never have to do in another RPG thus making that quarter of the game a royal PITA for RPGers. Worst yet, you can be going about your game playing and suddenly another player may come along and kill the thing you just ran 10 minutes to get to so you can complete generic quest #739. You are faced with MMO limitations in crafting, something you don't see in RPGs. Hell, when I think about it I cant find a single thing in this "RPG" that beats any other "RPG" as it offers nothing that stands out.
In terms of story for an RPG, it would be horrible. You are in a world where factions have arisen to try to take over a fallen empire no longer a threat to anyone even though all factions are protected from war by a magical barrier no one can see all while the God of Rape is invading everyone's lands wanting to enslave the world, which doesn't matter because there is a chance of crowning Legolazzz the new emperor!
So, even attempting to review it as an RPG its full of blandness and brings nothing new to the genre while other RPGs push the genre beyond its limits. It only gets worse when comparing it to upcoming MMOs like Shroud of the Avatar, Landmark, Blade and Soul or upcoming RPGs like The Witcher 3.
Lack of innovation shows lack of ideas and thus lack of talent.
So, only new things can have quality? It isn't possible to do something that has been done before, but do it better? It's not possible to combine elements that have been used before in a way that is interesting and fun, even if nothing about it is technically new?
Where are these "invisible" walls? Where are you running across an open field, and *wham* you run into a wall that can't be seen? Mountain ranges, locked gates, being eaten by slaughterfish, none of these is "invisible." How is ESO not letting someone playing in the Daggerfall Covenant randomly wander into the Ebonheart Pact lands any different from not being able to leave Cyrodiil in Oblivion, or not being able to take a stroll into mainland Morrowind in Skyrim?
The crafting system in ESO is a *hell* of a lot better than the bare bones nonsense in Skyrim. As compared to Skyrim, in ESO the skill system is better, the crafting is better, the variety of gear looks is better, the writing is better, the voice acting is better, there are more narrative choices... hell, it would be a lot shorter to list the things Skyrim does better as an RPG than the ones ESO does. Skyrim is a very fun medieval FPS wearing a poorly tailored RPG costume. ESO is a very fun RPG that has a pair of MMO costumes, with the PvP one fitting substantially better than the co-op PvE one.
As for the games you list, it doesn't make sense to compare to games that are in Alpha or where all we have is marketing talk. If you want to compare to the two Witcher games that have actually released, that would be fair. Both have very well crafted narratives with interesting choices. Unfortunately, the first one is mechanically atrocious, takes a true masochist to enjoy the gameplay. The second one was better in that regard, but still way more "on rails" than ESO is for those who like elements of freedom. Enjoyment of those games vs. ESO is going to depend largely on how much the individual player likes the respective settings and how much he likes playing the defined character of Geralt as compared to having some small amount of leeway to define his own character.
Originally posted by Knotwood
Trust me I looked into playing SWTOR while waiting for ESO release and I couldn't do it. it was way to restrictive of a gameplay if you wanted to play for free, you absoulutly have to sub if you want the full features of that game. Sure you can play free, but that qulity of that free, is far worse then ESO's sub content quality is going to be.
The quality of the sub experience is great, but given how close we are to ESO's release, I wouldn't advise it at this point, because you wouldn't be getting any value out of the last few days of the month.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
ESO is a generic themepark MMORPG. It is as generic as they come.
Can you tell me one thing that ESO innovates on or one thing new that ESO brings to the table that is not copy/pasted from other MMORPGs?
What at exactly have MMORPG gamers been saying they want for years that ESO delivers?
I like generic thempark. I also like to buy car with 4 wheels, not 5+. I do like Pizza with generic ingredients, not with chocolate and watermelon ...
What YOU want boy, is not what I want.
First of all I'm not your boy.
Second of all I was responding to Knotwood who stated that ESO gives us what MMORPG gamers have been wanting for years...I was simply stating that ESO is exactly the same as every other generic themepark MMORPG released in the last ten years and offers nothing new. Which it doesn't.
i like themepark MMORPGs too...so good for you...but saying ESO gives gamers what they have wanted for years is simply disingenuous because all it delivers is the same thing we have had in every MMORPG since WoW and DAOC.
It gives elder scrolls fans elder scrolls online mmorpg. So ye, it gives players what they wanted. Not all of them, but for many it is something they wanted for years.
I like generic thempark. I also like to buy car with 4 wheels, not 5+. I do like Pizza with generic ingredients, not with chocolate and watermelon ...
What YOU want boy, is not what I want.
I also like to buy a car with 4 wheels and not 5+.
However, I like my 4 wheel cars to have more than what they had in 1920. Sadly, TESO is just that. An old outdated car. And yeah, I would rather drive a new Lamborghini than 30 year old one also, it has newer options. Innovation, its a strange thing aint it?
Same with Pizza. I don't want bread with freakin marinara sauce on it with meat. I like mine with cheese on it, something it did NOT have before 1889, More-over I prefer it deep dish, the Chicago way. You can keep that hard flatbread crap they served in Naples. Innovation, crazy huh?
Also, your last comment shows how repugnant you are. You show no respect for his, yet act as if he is not respecting yours.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Comments
Ok lets judge as an MMO and an RPG!
As an MMO its bland and offers nothing new, it takes staples from old outdated games and places it into one box during a time when the genre is stagnant from similar concepts. This is equal to take a small amount from many piles of crap and placing into one large pile. YAY!
So as an MMO, it brings nothing new.
As an RPG it limits your freedom in ways unseen in ANY other RPG ever made. The game is split into 4, 2 of those parts you will never see with your character because of invisible walls, even after unlocking them at max level, another thing you never see in an RPG because its stupid, you will not have the quests actually deisgned for players of that "faction", you instead get a more advanced storyling, something that you would also be able to do in an ACTUAL RPG where you can play 100% of the game.
Another part of that game forces you to fight other players, something you never have to do in another RPG thus making that quarter of the game a royal PITA for RPGers. Worst yet, you can be going about your game playing and suddenly another player may come along and kill the thing you just ran 10 minutes to get to so you can complete generic quest #739. You are faced with MMO limitations in crafting, something you don't see in RPGs. Hell, when I think about it I cant find a single thing in this "RPG" that beats any other "RPG" as it offers nothing that stands out.
In terms of story for an RPG, it would be horrible. You are in a world where factions have arisen to try to take over a fallen empire no longer a threat to anyone even though all factions are protected from war by a magical barrier no one can see all while the God of Rape is invading everyone's lands wanting to enslave the world, which doesn't matter because there is a chance of crowning Legolazzz the new emperor!
So, even attempting to review it as an RPG its full of blandness and brings nothing new to the genre while other RPGs push the genre beyond its limits. It only gets worse when comparing it to upcoming MMOs like Shroud of the Avatar, Landmark, Blade and Soul or upcoming RPGs like The Witcher 3.
Lack of innovation shows lack of ideas and thus lack of talent.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
TESO 10 times .. thanks for asking tho. I play mmorpgs only, but you know? Thats me, I would pay even 50 dollars subs for one game and I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. U guys who cry over subs, you should just look for game that has no sub instead of crying over the game that has one.
Nonthing, played both, gw2 no endgame, no expansion ever, same armor and weapons for 100 years. TSW .. not fantasy, ugly animations and combat, lol
SWTOR is a high quality, AAA, themepark MMORPG that you can play almost the entire game without dropping a cent on it.
High price point does not automatically equal high quality.
lol, this is a review of the game from your point of view, you cant expect everyone to also feel the way you do. Or there wouldn't be millions who are going to play this game.
True, and because its Free after the box price, theres no real team there to develop updates like ESO will be able to at 4-6 weeks bringing in far more content on ESO then GW2 will ever see.
ESO is a generic themepark MMORPG. It is as generic as they come.
Can you tell me one thing that ESO innovates on or one thing new that ESO brings to the table that is not copy/pasted from other MMORPGs?
What at exactly have MMORPG gamers been saying they want for years that ESO delivers?
You know what, I was going to comment on his post almost the exact way you did, but just didn't want to hassle with him. It looks like a person who only sees one side and I didn't want to get into it.
My OP which I thought was very simple, and I believed would make most happy on an mmorpg site, has not really made some people happy. I'm wondering if I should have compared South Park to WoW what outcome that would have had! /shrug
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Trust me I looked into playing SWTOR while waiting for ESO release and I couldn't do it. it was way to restrictive of a gameplay if you wanted to play for free, you absoulutly have to sub if you want the full features of that game. Sure you can play free, but that qulity of that free, is far worse then ESO's sub content quality is going to be.
Woah there do you have a source for that claim? Millions of players?
Maybe 2 mill box sales with subs levelling at 200-300k is a bit more realistic methinks
No problems with a subscribtion fee either, payed nearly 8 years Anarchy Online, supported serveral free to play games with subscribtion like payments and actually spending about 10.- a month for Firefall.
First box ever was SWTOR, soon followed by TSW.
But then i had the chance to get a 7 years old Gibson Les Paul Studio for only 700.-€ and i could pay the remaining 300 bucks in 100 each month, 2 more to go, one month for ESO, my head is smoking ...
We give so mutch money for all the shit out there but developers are pretty underpayed, the buisness is dominated by brownnosing, smart- and badassing, depends who got the money.
https://www.google.de/search?q=code+for+food&client=firefox-a&hs=bFJ&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=NHwXU8W8AsTnswb6jIDYBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1587&bih=752That is, because they are artists and we kinda share some fate to a degree, music buisness is pretty mutch the same, as long as its the mainstream thing.
So, im proudly paying my bit for leeching the fun, its a loveley way to relax from the real world.
ESO is definitly on my list, for the pvp allone already and ill find a way
... like always hehe ...
With all the quality MMOs available as f2p, I just can't see that its worth paying $15 a month for ESO (or the box price either). I realize they have development costs to pay for, but why not go the GW2 model (which I bought). My main game is Lotro and I have bought the expansions, but I don't pay a monthly sub (I did go VIP for 1 month to get premium status).
I'm expecting ESO to follow the path of SWTOR and go f2p within a year. Until then I have about half a dozen f2p games that I enjoy and only spend money on when I'm ready to advance to some new feature. Over a years time, I might spend a total of $60.
PS. For those of you comparing a sub to going to a movie or eating out, I haven't been to a movie in over a year and only occasionally eat out when there is a great Groupon deal. I'm retired and frugal with my money.
You can't please everyone, and you certainly can't have a discussion with people that seem to hate for no reason. Their circular logic do them in every time. Kinda like watching a dog chasing its tail. Funny really.
And I'm not even on ESO's side here.
Usually, when people see something at a price they don't think it is worth, they forget about it. Move on. Shrug and get on with their day. That phone not worth $600? Do you petition the company to lower the price or do you continue to shop around? That pizza wasn't worth the $15 bucks you spent on it? Do you send feedback that says "pizza wasn't good" or do you say "make it cheaper?"
Or just not eat there again?
Don't think that new video card you've been eyeing is really worth 700 bucks because it only benchmarks a smidgen above its $450 cousin from another manufacturer? Do you tell them to lower the price, or do you just buy that other card?
I think, where all the 'entitlement' arguments are coming from is that the arguments for F2P don't sound very convincing. Behavior changes. Suddenly it's not a consumer deciding whether or not to consume. If you can get an adequate substitute from somewhere else, then get it. You've done it before, I'm sure. Why are you even here? This is a haggle free industry. Don't want to buy it, don't.
Instead it becomes something that sounds a lot more like whining.
I don't think it's worth the price, whatever the price is.
But I Want It.
Why do you want it? You can get substitutes elsewhere, as you've said. Whether it be RIFT, TERA, Neverwinter or something else. You're free to reconsider the value in comparison to substitutes if the price lowers. But to actively go out saying "I can get a better game elsewhere...so lower the price to be equal to that other game...so that I'll play your game and not that other one" boggles the mind. Truly.
Leave it alone. If it ain't worth it to you, then it ain't worth it. End of story.
Quality has nothing to do with whether people will sub to play an MMORPG.
People pay a sub if they enjoy playing the game enough to warrant paying that sub.
I like generic thempark. I also like to buy car with 4 wheels, not 5+. I do like Pizza with generic ingredients, not with chocolate and watermelon ...
What YOU want boy, is not what I want.
Never said it was otherwise, and I have said in the past that it will sell at least 2 million copies. It also wont stop most of those that buy it to stop playing, much like countless MMOs before it because it offers nothing new, like countless MMOs before it. Its one of the few constants in the genre right now, right alongside so many players thinking this one, is somehow going to be different.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
If you had compared South Park to Wow, there would have been crickets, because no ones waiting for WoW to come out and already know that game is only half as good as ESO.
Think about it. If you were given a choice to be able to ONLY play one game for the next 50 years of your life and were offered to play WoW for those 50 years, or ESO for those next 50 years... I think I made my point. haha.
Thats you
I go to see movies 3+ times per month, I eat in restaurants usually 3+ times a week and I do alot more acitivities. Have no problem to pay sub for something I enjoy.
If players have problem to pay for sub, or they think it is not worth it. WHO is forcing them to pay one, no one is forcing you to play the game
NO ONE (if someone does, call 911 or 112):D So just go play free to play games, which are the best ones, those p2p are not worth it anyway, as you said. Go .. No one gives a fu**
Apologies let me clarify.
You can spend around £10 and remove all of those restrictions - then have access to virtually the entire game for free. Either way it's a high quality game with a much more reasonable pricing menu and more content options than ESOs model (charging for races, really?)
Funny how the most closed minded people not only call other people closed minded, but then in turn act so high and mighty that they "cant be bothered" to speak with them when refuted.
That's the difference between being open minded and closed minded. Seeing the refute, and refuting back directly to those refutes.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
First of all I'm not your boy.
Second of all I was responding to Knotwood who stated that ESO gives us what MMORPG gamers have been wanting for years...I was simply stating that ESO is exactly the same as every other generic themepark MMORPG released in the last ten years and offers nothing new. Which it doesn't.
i like themepark MMORPGs too...so good for you...but saying ESO gives gamers what they have wanted for years is simply disingenuous because all it delivers is the same thing we have had in every MMORPG since WoW and DAOC.
So, only new things can have quality? It isn't possible to do something that has been done before, but do it better? It's not possible to combine elements that have been used before in a way that is interesting and fun, even if nothing about it is technically new?
Where are these "invisible" walls? Where are you running across an open field, and *wham* you run into a wall that can't be seen? Mountain ranges, locked gates, being eaten by slaughterfish, none of these is "invisible." How is ESO not letting someone playing in the Daggerfall Covenant randomly wander into the Ebonheart Pact lands any different from not being able to leave Cyrodiil in Oblivion, or not being able to take a stroll into mainland Morrowind in Skyrim?
The crafting system in ESO is a *hell* of a lot better than the bare bones nonsense in Skyrim. As compared to Skyrim, in ESO the skill system is better, the crafting is better, the variety of gear looks is better, the writing is better, the voice acting is better, there are more narrative choices... hell, it would be a lot shorter to list the things Skyrim does better as an RPG than the ones ESO does. Skyrim is a very fun medieval FPS wearing a poorly tailored RPG costume. ESO is a very fun RPG that has a pair of MMO costumes, with the PvP one fitting substantially better than the co-op PvE one.
As for the games you list, it doesn't make sense to compare to games that are in Alpha or where all we have is marketing talk. If you want to compare to the two Witcher games that have actually released, that would be fair. Both have very well crafted narratives with interesting choices. Unfortunately, the first one is mechanically atrocious, takes a true masochist to enjoy the gameplay. The second one was better in that regard, but still way more "on rails" than ESO is for those who like elements of freedom. Enjoyment of those games vs. ESO is going to depend largely on how much the individual player likes the respective settings and how much he likes playing the defined character of Geralt as compared to having some small amount of leeway to define his own character.
The quality of the sub experience is great, but given how close we are to ESO's release, I wouldn't advise it at this point, because you wouldn't be getting any value out of the last few days of the month.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
It gives elder scrolls fans elder scrolls online mmorpg. So ye, it gives players what they wanted. Not all of them, but for many it is something they wanted for years.
I also like to buy a car with 4 wheels and not 5+.
However, I like my 4 wheel cars to have more than what they had in 1920. Sadly, TESO is just that. An old outdated car. And yeah, I would rather drive a new Lamborghini than 30 year old one also, it has newer options. Innovation, its a strange thing aint it?
Same with Pizza. I don't want bread with freakin marinara sauce on it with meat. I like mine with cheese on it, something it did NOT have before 1889, More-over I prefer it deep dish, the Chicago way. You can keep that hard flatbread crap they served in Naples. Innovation, crazy huh?
Also, your last comment shows how repugnant you are. You show no respect for his, yet act as if he is not respecting yours.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/