No, No, No and NO, those of you who want a screen facial turning this game into all other MMO's ruining my experience by pretty much forcing me to download the same screen facial clutter to be on par with those that have the addons can just not play, there are many MMO's on the market that will give the tools and addons you want but not this one.
Look Below, see that mess? Nah I'm good, you can have that but not me.
Thank you for illustrating the exact reason I quit WoW after only 2 months. The add-ons made me throw up in my mouth on a daily basis. /puke
I stopped playing with the addons. The game works just fine without them. Of course, not if you want to raid or get into competitive PvP. Then they are required, and the game is about the addons, not the game or the game world.
It quickly became apparent as you leveled, and began entering raids, that it was a player-imposed requirement in order to participate. Nothing like having to log out and screw around with add-ons in order to participate in game-play. /quit
Why are you bringing up WOW that has nothing to do with the problem at hand. WOW doesn't impacts ESO's UI at all.
Actually, the current Api update prevents the ESO UI turning intoo the usuall WoW garbish.. Read the line in red, and project that at ESO, and you will see why so many people say no against to much modding.
The only thing i might love to see is my own buffs on me myslef and i... But i even can live withouth those
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Then you have those who suck at PVP. They need all those bells and whistles because they dont understand the fundamentals of the game mechanics. Probably dont even know what most of their skills do, they just push buttons when the addons tell them too. As long as they see purdy numbers scrolling on their screen, they know they did something right. They also watch those numbers, and push the button queues without paying attention to the game around them. All those combat queues happen in animations if only they would focus on the game and not the UI and addons. Oh well, some people will never learn. Whats funny is those are probably the same people who complain about quests doing to much "hand-holding" and yet, they want their hand held by a combat addon..... wheres the logic there??
This partial quote sums it up in a nutshell... Addons are a crutch... Those of you who have played PvP in the game know that the TTK is relatively short and the action is pretty fast...
A good player knows their buff schedule, can recognize others buffs/damage shields and can also see when a players bar is below a certain (rough) percentage so they can use a finisher attach when available.
Learn to adapt or play something else. This is not a hard choice here...
How would you even know if your buffs we truly working as descried by the tool tip? Since most of the spells and abilities in ESO are broken. (looking at you Nightblade) How would you know about most of the stats the Base UI doesn't even list such as magic cost reduce. Spell pen. all these major thing wouldn't even be able to be checked without the use of Addons.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
Very good change although I would prefer for them to eliminate all UI mods.
I prefer that everyone is using the same tools to play the game.
I agree They should have options in the game for the information people are asking for that ZOS said "addons would Fix the gap".
I am not asking for Addon to be required by any means. I want them to just give enough information other games like DAOC had in the base UI. Its really too much to ask for, when an RVR game mimicking DAOC doesn't offer the same UI elements, and then ZOS said they would let addons correct these. These changes are far too Broad, Tipping the scale too far too close to launch.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
The UI in ESO wants to be different, and at least we will get to experience it a little before we decide we do not like it. I personally found it very immersive, which is good.
In time I expect most people will get used to it, instead of wanting to bring their favourite MMO UI in the game.
I trust in time they are going to add some extra UI features but - and this is important - at their own pace (hopefully not 5 years, but they seem to be fast) and not without losing control by allowing any over the top add ons.
TL;DR: it would be harder to remove addons once they have opened the pandora box, so they made the right decision. In time, UI will improve but in control.
It is an example of what happens when mod makers have access to the kind of information that Zenimax took out of the mod api. Namely that the game becomes playing the mods instead of playing the game.
That's all that really needs to be said here. Sums it up.
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
I don't mind cluttered UI with skills and mods. I do like that style of play. I just don't want yet another MMORPG to cater to that play style if you want to be competitive.
If you need add ons to make yourself a better player then go for it. People wear arm bands to get better at swimming, people put stabilizers on bikes so they can get better at cycling.
I just wished players would let go of these aids when they get skilled at the combat. But they don't as most players don't use them as an aid to learn, just as an advantage.
Very good change although I would prefer for them to eliminate all UI mods.
I prefer that everyone is using the same tools to play the game.
I agree They should have options in the game for the information people are asking for that ZOS said "addons would Fix the gap".
I am not asking for Addon to be required by any means. I want them to just give enough information other games like DAOC had in the base UI. Its really too much to ask for, when an RVR game mimicking DAOC doesn't offer the same UI elements, and then ZOS said they would let addons correct these. These changes are far too Broad, Tipping the scale too far too close to launch.
It's not far off from what they said a couple weeks ago, they said they would remove any mechanical advantage a mod could give. That's what they did. Now will they add more information to the basic UI, maybe if enough people ask for it. Go send em feedback that you want more information given to you, not from a mod but from what you consider should be given by the UI of the game.
For testing purpose we needed the numbers to pinpoint problems and I am pretty sure they will keep a beta server where testers will have access to a wider range of information. It's not like they will add abilities in game without testing anything.
In the end, the only thing that matter is : ''To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.''
It is an example of what happens when mod makers have access to the kind of information that Zenimax took out of the mod api. Namely that the game becomes playing the mods instead of playing the game.
That's all that really needs to be said here. Sums it up.
your comparing a game that has a cluttered UI to start with with 40-50 spells and what not to a game that at most lets you have 6x2 + quick slots that only gives you a compass and HP/stam/magica bars. What most people are asking for is the option to see:
Buffs and Debuffs, on your self, group
Debuffs on enemies.
Loot in chat.
Combat logs.
Display all your stats (spell pen, Cost reduce)
Cast bar for your self.
Wow as just one example of many many games that come with ALL these features build in the base UI.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
It is an example of what happens when mod makers have access to the kind of information that Zenimax took out of the mod api. Namely that the game becomes playing the mods instead of playing the game.
That's all that really needs to be said here. Sums it up.
your comparing a game that has a cluttered UI to start with with 40-50 spells and what not to a game that at most lets you have 6x2 + quick slots that only gives you a compass and HP/stam/magica bars. What most people are asking for is the option to see:
Buffs and Debuffs, on your self, group
Debuffs on enemies.
Loot in chat.
Combat logs.
Display all your stats (spell pen, Cost reduce)
Cast bar for your self.
Wow as just one example of many many games that come with ALL these features build in the base UI.
And having something different is fucking awesome and refreshing !
@Topic: They are not removing the addons, they're introducing addons. This game hasn't even released yet. They said they change it, meaning it was very "opened" only for testing and it was abused already. Calm down, omg! I shouldn't have read this thread, it was so predictable...
So fix the advantage NOT Just remove the entire addon or addons across the board that ZOS promised would fix the major issues the game had. Not to mention EVERY ES PC game has addons.
I hate this argument, it is flawed and wrong.
Single player titles are not MMO titles. Single player ES games do not have a boat load of information UI mods. They have content driven mods. There is a single popular UI mod for Skyrim called Skyui and it has nothing in common with the abomination that was FTC. It was a extremely minimalist UI and has more in common with the stock ESO UI than any of these ugly informational addons.
I just want to note to people after testing the addons on the PTS server. Dragon loot still works. I know it was listed on Tamerial Foundry that it wasn't but I personally tested it and it does indeed work after checking off to use outdated addons.
So fix the advantage NOT Just remove the entire addon or addons across the board that ZOS promised would fix the major issues the game had. Not to mention EVERY ES PC game has addons.
I hate this argument, it is flawed and wrong.
Single player titles are not MMO titles. Single player ES games do not have a boat load of information UI mods. They have content driven mods. There is a single popular UI mod for Skyrim called Skyui and it has nothing in common with the abomination that was FTC. It was a extremely minimalist UI and has more in common with the stock ESO UI than any of these ugly informational addons.
SkyUI includes an active effects hud, something that a lot of players seem to be disappointed about not having in ESO.
your comparing a game that has a cluttered UI to start with with 40-50 spells and what not to a game that at most lets you have 6x2 + quick slots that only gives you a compass and HP/stam/magica bars. What most people are asking for is the option to see:
Buffs and Debuffs, on your self, group
Debuffs on enemies.
Loot in chat.
Combat logs.
Display all your stats (spell pen, Cost reduce)
Cast bar for your self.
Wow as just one example of many many games that come with ALL these features build in the base UI.
Newnan... Here is your crutch... Maybe it will help you play better.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
It is an example of what happens when mod makers have access to the kind of information that Zenimax took out of the mod api. Namely that the game becomes playing the mods instead of playing the game.
That's all that really needs to be said here. Sums it up.
your comparing a game that has a cluttered UI to start with with 40-50 spells and what not to a game that at most lets you have 6x2 + quick slots that only gives you a compass and HP/stam/magica bars. What most people are asking for is the option to see:
Buffs and Debuffs, on your self, group
Debuffs on enemies.
Loot in chat.
Combat logs.
Display all your stats (spell pen, Cost reduce)
Cast bar for your self.
Wow as just one example of many many games that come with ALL these features build in the base UI.
If that stuff is in the base UI, but not available to mod makers, do you really think there would be no complaints? The people who are most against this change want a competitive advantage. If having this information available in the mod api gives a competitive advantage, then it shouldn't be there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
If your mechanic needs a computer to know that your breaks are due, it's a bad mechanic.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
Do people call using computers to count cards in a poker game cheating? Yes. That's using tools too.
Bad example is bad.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
Well with engines in cars these days I agree the use of a computer to run a diagnostic is needed. But if your mechanic needs a computer to tell him its time to change the oil then my friend I suggest you get a new mechanic.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
If your mechanic needs a computer to know that your breaks are due, it's a bad mechanic.
It is an example of what happens when mod makers have access to the kind of information that Zenimax took out of the mod api. Namely that the game becomes playing the mods instead of playing the game.
That's all that really needs to be said here. Sums it up.
your comparing a game that has a cluttered UI to start with with 40-50 spells and what not to a game that at most lets you have 6x2 + quick slots that only gives you a compass and HP/stam/magica bars. What most people are asking for is the option to see:
Buffs and Debuffs, on your self, group
Debuffs on enemies.
Loot in chat.
Combat logs.
Display all your stats (spell pen, Cost reduce)
Cast bar for your self.
Wow as just one example of many many games that come with ALL these features build in the base UI.
If that stuff is in the base UI, but not available to mod makers, do you really think there would be no complaints? The people who are most against this change want a competitive advantage. If having this information available in the mod api gives a competitive advantage, then it shouldn't be there.
Its not in the Base UI that's the whole reason people made the Addons in the first place, The lack of basic information. The top tier Competitive guilds all said last night on twitch they don't want the advantage but just the basic information the game lacks that is required to make informed decisions about builds and functioning synergy's between passives and skills to even check if they are even working.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
Well with engines in cars these days I agree the use of a computer to run a diagnostic is needed. But if your mechanic needs a computer to tell him its time to change the oil then my friend I suggest you get a new mechanic.
Cars now a days have screen display to tell you when you need to change your oil yourself. So, I guess people are too stupid to figure it out for themselves since car designers felt the need to add that along with sensors to even check your tire pressure.
Comments
Actually, the current Api update prevents the ESO UI turning intoo the usuall WoW garbish.. Read the line in red, and project that at ESO, and you will see why so many people say no against to much modding.
The only thing i might love to see is my own buffs on me myslef and i... But i even can live withouth those
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
How would you even know if your buffs we truly working as descried by the tool tip? Since most of the spells and abilities in ESO are broken. (looking at you Nightblade) How would you know about most of the stats the Base UI doesn't even list such as magic cost reduce. Spell pen. all these major thing wouldn't even be able to be checked without the use of Addons.
No one uses addons as a "crutch" they use it as information to make better decisions, and to figure out what their mistakes were made.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
Very good change although I would prefer for them to eliminate all UI mods.
I prefer that everyone is using the same tools to play the game.
I agree They should have options in the game for the information people are asking for that ZOS said "addons would Fix the gap".
I am not asking for Addon to be required by any means. I want them to just give enough information other games like DAOC had in the base UI. Its really too much to ask for, when an RVR game mimicking DAOC doesn't offer the same UI elements, and then ZOS said they would let addons correct these. These changes are far too Broad, Tipping the scale too far too close to launch.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
Loving this change.
The UI in ESO wants to be different, and at least we will get to experience it a little before we decide we do not like it. I personally found it very immersive, which is good.
In time I expect most people will get used to it, instead of wanting to bring their favourite MMO UI in the game.
I trust in time they are going to add some extra UI features but - and this is important - at their own pace (hopefully not 5 years, but they seem to be fast) and not without losing control by allowing any over the top add ons.
TL;DR: it would be harder to remove addons once they have opened the pandora box, so they made the right decision. In time, UI will improve but in control.
That's all that really needs to be said here. Sums it up.
I don't mind cluttered UI with skills and mods. I do like that style of play. I just don't want yet another MMORPG to cater to that play style if you want to be competitive.
If you need add ons to make yourself a better player then go for it. People wear arm bands to get better at swimming, people put stabilizers on bikes so they can get better at cycling.
I just wished players would let go of these aids when they get skilled at the combat. But they don't as most players don't use them as an aid to learn, just as an advantage.
It's not far off from what they said a couple weeks ago, they said they would remove any mechanical advantage a mod could give. That's what they did. Now will they add more information to the basic UI, maybe if enough people ask for it. Go send em feedback that you want more information given to you, not from a mod but from what you consider should be given by the UI of the game.
For testing purpose we needed the numbers to pinpoint problems and I am pretty sure they will keep a beta server where testers will have access to a wider range of information. It's not like they will add abilities in game without testing anything.
In the end, the only thing that matter is : ''To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.''
your comparing a game that has a cluttered UI to start with with 40-50 spells and what not to a game that at most lets you have 6x2 + quick slots that only gives you a compass and HP/stam/magica bars. What most people are asking for is the option to see:
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
And having something different is fucking awesome and refreshing !
@Topic: They are not removing the addons, they're introducing addons. This game hasn't even released yet. They said they change it, meaning it was very "opened" only for testing and it was abused already. Calm down, omg! I shouldn't have read this thread, it was so predictable...
I hate this argument, it is flawed and wrong.
Single player titles are not MMO titles. Single player ES games do not have a boat load of information UI mods. They have content driven mods. There is a single popular UI mod for Skyrim called Skyui and it has nothing in common with the abomination that was FTC. It was a extremely minimalist UI and has more in common with the stock ESO UI than any of these ugly informational addons.
SkyUI includes an active effects hud, something that a lot of players seem to be disappointed about not having in ESO.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/3863/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D3863%26preview%3D&pUp=1
Instead of having to constantly open the magic menu, active magic effects can now be displayed directly in the HUD.
For effects that manipulate actor values, emblems are used to show the type of change.
For temporal effects, a timer bar indicates the duration.
All magic effect types the game includes are supported. This extends to mod added content as well.
To support individual user preferences, the following properties are configurable:
Note that the active effects HUD is an optional feature. It can be disabled in the SkyUI configuration menu.
Newnan... Here is your crutch... Maybe it will help you play better.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not only are some addons used as a crutch, they are actually surgically fused to some peoples legs. I agree that the basic UI should have a little more info i.e. my buffs and such. But i'm sure this type of thing will be allowed at some point. Other than that I care less about addons.
Do you go to your mechanic and tell him he uses a crutch for using computer to check your engine problem instead of figuring it out himself? Using tools isn't a crutch, it's called being human.
If that stuff is in the base UI, but not available to mod makers, do you really think there would be no complaints? The people who are most against this change want a competitive advantage. If having this information available in the mod api gives a competitive advantage, then it shouldn't be there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If your mechanic needs a computer to know that your breaks are due, it's a bad mechanic.
Do people call using computers to count cards in a poker game cheating? Yes. That's using tools too.
Bad example is bad.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well with engines in cars these days I agree the use of a computer to run a diagnostic is needed. But if your mechanic needs a computer to tell him its time to change the oil then my friend I suggest you get a new mechanic.
Yeah cause your breaks are in the engine ...
Its not in the Base UI that's the whole reason people made the Addons in the first place, The lack of basic information. The top tier Competitive guilds all said last night on twitch they don't want the advantage but just the basic information the game lacks that is required to make informed decisions about builds and functioning synergy's between passives and skills to even check if they are even working.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Cars now a days have screen display to tell you when you need to change your oil yourself. So, I guess people are too stupid to figure it out for themselves since car designers felt the need to add that along with sensors to even check your tire pressure.