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How can you hate F2P?
Kopogero
Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
I see some confusion here on the forums so let me clarify why F2P is the best thing that happened to this genre.
I"ve been part of, experienced and played/enjoyed many MMO's without spending a cent, regardless of what type of cash shop they have. That itself is the greatest reason why I cannot "hate" F2P MMO's, but on the contrary if I see a MMO demanding upfront fee or a monthly fee, expansion fee or all of those thing to be played and on top has some cash shop that a F2P MMO would incorporate (which we've recently start to see more and more) is one of the main reasons I stay away from those MMO's.
So, if there is anyone here who hates F2P (regardless how it's implemented) simply put he/she hates having the choice/opportunity to enjoy many not just MMO's but other types of games out there. I would gladly pay top $ for a quality product, but to see a company damaging it's game for the price of receiving more revenue in the short run from whatever playerbase it has is one of the reasons many games end up badly.
Finally, F2P is one of the best ways to advertise your product/game with a potential to attract a huge audience (if it's a great game). League of Legends is just one example of that and the amount of players enjoy it thanks to being F2P is enormous. I dislike MOBA's and never played it, but I have to aknowledge that reality and overall how beneficial F2P is to us gamers in general.
Comments
Arguing black vs white does not reflect the fact that people have opinions across the spectrum. I do not "hate" F2P, it has its place in the MMO market, but I am the oppostite of you. I tend to stay away from F2P games because my past experience of them has generally been (i) the game is low budget/low quality/poorly made, and/or (ii) the F2P model will nickel and dime me to the point where it costs me more than a flat monthly sub, or will irritate me because I'm constantly opening my wallet to get full enjoyment of the game.
I am not commenting on F2P universally, but my own experience of and feelings toward the F2P games I have played. Similarly, a company charging box price and a monthly sub may be doing so to offset high development costs, and such costs mean the game is actually high quality. If not then perhaps you're right and that company is just being greedy and overestimating the quality of their game, but this is not always the case.
Here is where, in my view, F2P shoots itself in the foot. Because F2P very often actually means F2T (free-to-trial) and is therefore somewhat disingenuous that you can actually "play" the game for free. I really like the fact that you can have a look at games without spending a dime, but the fact that the game tries to convince you that you can play for free is, in fact, not true in practice. Log in, make a character, do some stuff - sure that's free. But at some point it costs you money if you want to play properly because you need that bank space, or mount, or gear unlock.
Choice is good and I'm all for it. But F2P has earned itself a bit of a bad rep, at least in my eyes.
Some f2p game did it good, like path of exile.
I hate free to play because more often than not the game is sub-par and the communities are usually toxic.
I hate the people who post in the forums of non F2P games saying how much it sucks and they cant wait till it goes F2P.
The fact that someone says they like F2P but aren't willing to support it makes me question do they like the game or just like the free part.
'F2P' is such a misleading term...it would be better to say 'no-subscription', or 'variable-pricing'.
Some games make you pay for the inital download/box, some don't. Some restrict your gameplay unless you subscribe. Some have cash-shops that give you in-game advantages.
In general, I think it is a good move for MMOs, but there is so much variation in the details that it is hard to say.
No, you just don't understand.
If you have to buy the box or download and no sub that's called B2P (buy to play).
F2P is it cost you nothing to get the game and you can play it without paying a sub. What features they allow access to or don't allow access to is irrelevant.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
I wonder what games have the so called "haters" have been playing that were pay 2 win. You seem to wipe your asses with that term every single time such thread pops out, yet I find it hard to find such MMOs (direct pay2win). I think most of you are delusional and afraid of a little more fierce competition or plain lazy, or both. Admit it....
Some of the F2P titles seem cheaply made, I agree, but so do some P2P games (*cough* DFUW/EVE Online *cough*). But how dare you say that a game like RIFT for example is (i) Showing popups asking you for money (ii) Being pay to win - all the freaking time, as the majority of you claim it to be. How about NA Tera? Or even NA Aion?
hate? no.
For me, its like renting a movie vs watching a movie on tv. Id rather pay a few bucks up front and get an uninterrupted experience rather than watch it for free with commercials peppered in.
F2P is interrupting to me. And when I play an MMO, I like to be immersed, not interrupted. I don't want to be bothered with monetary options while I'm trying to be involved in the game itself. Cash shops are like a commercial break that I don't need.
I wont say I hate it but I don't like how some devs seems to think that games not good enough to play while P2P would be good enough as F2P, and some players for that matter. Time is more precious than 15 bucks a month so playing the best game possibly should be a priority.
I also don't like F2P games that are too greedy (EQ2 comes to mind). They often use the word "freemium".
But fine, F2P as such is no big deal to me, a great game is worth playing no matter if it is P2P, B2P or F2P.
Seems to be an inconsistency there. You gladly pay top dollar but you haven't paid for many games that you have enjoyed.
Though I understand the benefits of f2p games I do have some problems with them.
These games cost a lot of money (though can some of this be corrected with better management? Not sure) and I highly suspect that if a "one time" (no cash shop at all) fee was charged that covered the investment as well as the continuation of the game it would be MUCH more than a regular $60 game.
So these games require a greater amount of money to develop and to maintain.
However these costs are generally passed on to people who are willing to pay an endless amount of money so that they can "get ahead".
Since I'm a big believer in everyone paying their fair share I find it distasteful that some people pay more while others don't. I also think that development then leans on creating monetizing opportunities over actually creating good content.
Additionally, developers have to constantly create ways to make money even if the game doesn't really warrant it. Another hat, another mount, another bit of sunglasses, xp boosts, ways to bypass game play, etc.
My thought is that if a company offers a product and people like that product they should pay for it.
Just like I go to work each day, offer good service and the company pays for it. I'm not sure I would like my company to pay me "what they feel like" for my work. OR not pay me. I'd rather them just say "your work is not what we are looking for please go elsewhere for employment" if there was a problem with it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Nobody hates Free stuff, but we all hate bad management and Pay to Win practices to please the groups who pay the most.
These people who claim they despise F2P they just hate that companies who dont know how to properly run an mmo rely on P2W to try and make the whales stick with the game and keep spending. That sucks but some people love to get ripped off. But the haters unleash their rage to the F2P as a whole for whatever reason.
I will always prefer to purchase a game (b2p)
Its easy for me to hate free to play.
Reason 1: Because its not free if you want to really experience the game in its full. I remember subscribing to SWTOR for a month after it went F2P and I was -still- locked out of some stuff despite putting a subscription on. This is the perfect example as to why I hate F2P and its all I need. I grew up paying monthly for MMOs I loved in order to receive full access to everything the game offers. Even if you paid $15 a month in F2P games, you'll never have access to everything the game offers.
Reason 2: I'll use FF XIV as a quick example since its what I'm playing now. Full sub fee and their goal is to keep you subbed. How do they keep you subbed? Their development team spends all day working on real content for quarterly huge updates that adds a lot of real, fun content to the game. With F2P, all their money is made from cosmetics and 'buff' potions and/or access tokens to dungeons. So about half their money and development will be spent on making good content to keep people into the game or to sell access tokens and stuff, while the other half will be spent on cosmetic stuff that serves no purpose other than draining your wallet.
Reason 3: Combined with the last two things, it kind of just hurts the genre as a whole. Yeah I guess you get more people playing more games in the genre, but how much do they actually play? F2P is starting to look like a 'Plan B' for most modern MMO's. "We didn't get WoW sub levels within the first year. Instead of improving the game to draw people back, lets spend the next 5 months converting the game to F2P." I'll use FF XIV as an example one more time to end my post. They could have gone F2P when the original release of the game failed, but instead they remade most of the game from scratch and was considered an overall success that still holds a large subscription number. The game has no optional purchases and all content is available to all who can complete its barriers to unlock them.
I all boils down to personal preference I guess. I just want access to all a MMO has to offer a simple sub fee that is the same every month. I don't want to join a game and buy all the content I want piece by piece. And if it has buff potions or anything like that for sale, you lost me as a member forever.
I can say I don't "hate" f2p games... I have just never played one that I liked.
The only thing I "hate" that pertains to payment models is the Freemium models that put content behind a cash shop....and yes I personally do count fluff and cosmetics as content...
Pick one or the other... if someone is paying a monthly sub they should not have anything / everything new locked in the cash shop. There should be a way for them to earn things in game.
SWTOR i'm looking at you!
Eating out of a garbage can is free too. F2P has done nothing but water down the MMO genre.
*It replaced achievements that strengthen community and grouping, and replaced it with cash shop items that remove any inter dependence
*it replaced tight knit groups and guilds with loners and people who refuse to communicate, socialise or work together, because all they need is XP and the rest can be bought in the shop, so why bother being nice to others
*it ruined immersion, that feeling of a world and items that belong to a certain zone, seeing where other players have been just by their gear has been replaced with the highest bidder, items appear out of nowhere and real cash influences the dynamics of the game and community
*it made sure that MMO dies within a few years and increasingly a few months, because why bother investing time in a game if the developer keeps making the game more expensive to cater to the only people that truly matter to them, the whales, it creates a demographic of players who do not stick with a game, refuse to make a community, and instead hop from game to game. One failed MMO after the other, every other week there is a new F2P MMO, each one just as shallow as the next.
There are 2 different demographics in MMO. It is not P2P players who accepted watered down F2P games, it is a massive influx of instant gratification players that flooded the market and the industry giving in to them.
This actually supports my comment post right above yours. F2P is not the problem, the problem is the bad management. SWTOR has the worst freemium model in history yet you chose to use it as an example as to why you the F2P as a whole. A company that takes their game seriously wont ruin it for the players. Players = consumers, angry consumers wont support the game, if the game doesnt get player support it dies, to get player support you keep them happy with a decent service regardles of model.
You mentioned it your self (I can see why people dont like f2p) because this kind of models ruin even good game . If Black Dessert will release aka Sony or Nexon f2p model that game would be worst on market for one simple thing retarded pay 2 win and pay walls. this is a decent reason to hate f2p model and companies
Likewise.
I like games that have a rich array of features and extras and "cosmetic" options. But I don't like paying for them individually. That's why I prefer subscription-based games, they inevitably end up being cheaper for ME to play. Many of the things that I value highly in games are usually the kind of things that get stripped-out and monetized in the Cash Shop.
Now if you look at my post before yours, you'll see my distaste for F2P, but I think you're off the mark. It was actually the whole WoW revolution in MMO's that killed most of the stuff you like.
Tight knit groups were killed by making a whole game soloable (Modern WoW style MMO's).
Ruined immersion was killed by not having to read text quest and explore areas for yourself and instead you get gigantic yellow/red/whatever marks on your map that tell you exactly where to go for every single step (Modern WoW style MMO's)
And achievements didn't used to be official 'achievements' Owning a rare weapon or having a rare title was all the achievement we needed before achievements officially became a thing (modern WoW style MMO's)
Disclaimer: I don't hate WoW, in fact I used to play it a ton. I just dislike the fact that 99% of all modern MMO's are based on its success instead of trying to make a game based around oldschool ways of community and sandboxery (SWG type games)
pretty much the same stance i have.. if there's a sub i'll most likely go for that.
but it seems to be a pretty difficult issue if you look around on game forums.. you see the p2p ones have players begging for it to be f2p.. and you can see on f2p game forums people begging for them to have a sub.
i personally think the best way is to offer both options really.
I had fun once, it was terrible.