I'm not really a fan of raid games or Wildstar. I don't like games that require super huge investments of time to do well. This makes me a casual gamer. On the other hand, I don't think it is right to design a game for casual gamers first. If WS doesn't fit into the casual mode, that is just fine. There is nothing saying that every MMO needs to have WoW subscription numbers to be successful. As long as they stay focused on their targeted base of players (hardcore raiders and a bit of PVP), they should survive a long time. Look at Everquest or DAOC. Both games still have players who PAY. They wouldn't still exist if people didn't still play the game and provided no profit.
I believe that Widlstar and ESO are both profitable right now. Sure, they aren't WoW big in numbers, but I'm sure they have plenty of subscribers to keep them going. Each caters to different aspects of MMO gaming. I think that is a good thing.
If companies think that being as big as WoW is the only way for an MMO to be successful they are sadly mistaken. In this day and age, the market is fragmented, the type of pay model even in contention. MMOs are declining in popularity.
I don't play Wildstar, but I say keep it just like it is. Keep those people who enjoy it like it is happy. Or else you will end up just like WoW, trying to please everyone and ruining a good system (vanilla WoW vs. Now). If you are a casual gamer, go back to WoW or one of the many other games (SWTOR, LOTRO?) that supports this gameplay.
Just my 2cents.
ESO and Wildstar are successful as subscription games right now because they just came out. They are trying to make as much of their initial investment back as fast as possible (wildstar cost over 100 million to make). In the long term, they will have to switch models to F2P.
Look at those other games you mentioned ESO and LOTRO. Also look at SWTOR and RIFT and ....well, all of the games that are not WoW and FF11/14. They ALL came out pay subscription, they all lacked features that were casual friendly (SWToR openly said NO LFR!) and they all went F2P.
What happens to Wildstar's #Hardcore when it inevitably goes F2P? The same people who say "this one will be the one that bucks the trend!" said the same thing about Rift, SWToR, LOTRO etc etc etc. A F2P niche game just won't work.
I'm not really a fan of raid games or Wildstar. I don't like games that require super huge investments of time to do well. This makes me a casual gamer. On the other hand, I don't think it is right to design a game for casual gamers first. If WS doesn't fit into the casual mode, that is just fine. There is nothing saying that every MMO needs to have WoW subscription numbers to be successful. As long as they stay focused on their targeted base of players (hardcore raiders and a bit of PVP), they should survive a long time. Look at Everquest or DAOC. Both games still have players who PAY. They wouldn't still exist if people didn't still play the game and provided no profit.
I believe that Widlstar and ESO are both profitable right now. Sure, they aren't WoW big in numbers, but I'm sure they have plenty of subscribers to keep them going. Each caters to different aspects of MMO gaming. I think that is a good thing.
If companies think that being as big as WoW is the only way for an MMO to be successful they are sadly mistaken. In this day and age, the market is fragmented, the type of pay model even in contention. MMOs are declining in popularity.
I don't play Wildstar, but I say keep it just like it is. Keep those people who enjoy it like it is happy. Or else you will end up just like WoW, trying to please everyone and ruining a good system (vanilla WoW vs. Now). If you are a casual gamer, go back to WoW or one of the many other games (SWTOR, LOTRO?) that supports this gameplay.
Just my 2cents.
ESO and Wildstar are successful as subscription games right now because they just came out. They are trying to make as much of their initial investment back as fast as possible (wildstar cost over 100 million to make). In the long term, they will have to switch models to F2P.
Look at those other games you mentioned ESO and LOTRO. Also look at SWTOR and RIFT and ....well, all of the games that are not WoW and FF11/14. They ALL came out pay subscription, they all lacked features that were casual friendly (SWToR openly said NO LFR!) and they all went F2P.
What happens to Wildstar's #Hardcore when it inevitably goes F2P? The same people who say "this one will be the one that bucks the trend!" said the same thing about Rift, SWToR, LOTRO etc etc etc. A F2P niche game just won't work.
What you are saying doesn't change anything. The fans of Wildstar will remain in Wildstar when the model changes. Same goes for ESO. SWTOR and RIFT are irrefutable proof of this and quite successful with their new models. In fact, you might argue that RIFT is more successful than the paid model was.
I'm not really a fan of raid games or Wildstar. I don't like games that require super huge investments of time to do well. This makes me a casual gamer. On the other hand, I don't think it is right to design a game for casual gamers first. If WS doesn't fit into the casual mode, that is just fine. There is nothing saying that every MMO needs to have WoW subscription numbers to be successful. As long as they stay focused on their targeted base of players (hardcore raiders and a bit of PVP), they should survive a long time. Look at Everquest or DAOC. Both games still have players who PAY. They wouldn't still exist if people didn't still play the game and provided no profit.
I believe that Widlstar and ESO are both profitable right now. Sure, they aren't WoW big in numbers, but I'm sure they have plenty of subscribers to keep them going. Each caters to different aspects of MMO gaming. I think that is a good thing.
If companies think that being as big as WoW is the only way for an MMO to be successful they are sadly mistaken. In this day and age, the market is fragmented, the type of pay model even in contention. MMOs are declining in popularity.
I don't play Wildstar, but I say keep it just like it is. Keep those people who enjoy it like it is happy. Or else you will end up just like WoW, trying to please everyone and ruining a good system (vanilla WoW vs. Now). If you are a casual gamer, go back to WoW or one of the many other games (SWTOR, LOTRO?) that supports this gameplay.
Just my 2cents.
ESO and Wildstar are successful as subscription games right now because they just came out. They are trying to make as much of their initial investment back as fast as possible (wildstar cost over 100 million to make). In the long term, they will have to switch models to F2P.
Look at those other games you mentioned ESO and LOTRO. Also look at SWTOR and RIFT and ....well, all of the games that are not WoW and FF11/14. They ALL came out pay subscription, they all lacked features that were casual friendly (SWToR openly said NO LFR!) and they all went F2P.
What happens to Wildstar's #Hardcore when it inevitably goes F2P? The same people who say "this one will be the one that bucks the trend!" said the same thing about Rift, SWToR, LOTRO etc etc etc. A F2P niche game just won't work.
What you are saying doesn't change anything. The fans of Wildstar will remain in Wildstar when the model changes. Same goes for ESO. SWTOR and RIFT are irrefutable proof of this and quite successful with their new models. In fact, you might argue that RIFT is more successful than the paid model was.
I agree with you. Wildstar could be very successful if it went F2P. It has a lot of good qualities to it that would work great as a casual focused game. When I hear "how to save Wildstar" I don't think "save it from getting the plug pulled", I think "save it from going F2P and becoming so casual you can only play it on friday". The developers want this super hardcore experience that is reminiscient of Vanilla WoW. Name one F2P MMO out there that has that.
The way the F2P model works is by getting as many people into the door as possible to hope that enough buy things from the cash shop. It's a numbers game and by gating people out of content you will drive them away and have less people to purchase what you need.
In order for any game to survive it requires a strong diverse community. By diverse I mean players who like different aspects of gameplay that as a whole compliment each other. For example players that don't raid heavily but enjoy time gathering or crafting vs players that raid extensively.
Wildstars biggest failing right now is the relative inaccessibility of endgame content to all but a small percentage of players willing to devote the time to run it. Players who are more casual will bore quite quickly after reaching cap as it's currently too difficult for any but highly skilled players to complete let alone atune for raiding.
The result of this gap will be a quick and severe drop in subscriptions which will have a chain of effects felt all the way to the top. There will be less players gathering and selling materials, same with crafting. Less players providing a strong economy means inflation and a lack of readily available materials which will result in end game players needing to spend even more time in those areas... resulting in more burn out. It's a vicious circle.
Carbine has displayed a huge amount of arrogance in their approach to game design by refusing to recognize that the majority of players are NOT hardcore and in the end this arrogance will be the undoing of the game. Unless this attitude changes and end game content is made more accessible the game will wither and die. Raiding guilds are seeing this already today with many folding or needing to merge just to keep 20man raids going.
Carbine: Learn from the lessons of games before you (the ones you've already essentially copied in most regards) and fix this issue. Here's how (and this isn't anything new, more like common sense)
1. Raid finder.
2. Normal vs "Veteran" modes
3. Bronze medals for attunement
4. 10 man raids
5. Less arrogance more common sense.
I like the game and want it to remain strong but the writing is on the wall. Players are quitting in droves and the leaks need fixed. It's not difficult to figure out but I fear it IS difficult to change when you're core culture is one of blind arrogance and misplaced pride.
First, this isn't "Carbines" forums, it's MMORPG and addressing them is futile here.
Now to attack your points:
1) Will never happen. period. The developers have said this and keep saying this: NO RAID FINDER EVER!
2) There are "normal" vs Vet, for dungeons. Raids are a gradual progression of these. Do you play this game at all and not realize that?
3) Will never happen. The whole point of getting Silver/Gold is to have reached a certain obtainable skill point in order to progress to the next challenge (i.e. Raids).
4) Will never happen as well. This was in a Stream done by them....1-3 weeks ago. It was one where they mentioned that they have 6 raids in various stages of development right now ( not including dungeons, zones, PvP maps and so on; just raids). None of them will be 10-man, but instead they'll be 10 and 20 man as the current 2 in the game are right now.
Basically your thread is to state that you either haven't joined a "hardcore guild" that's fitting this style of gameplay, or you're awful at the game and cannot meet the set goals for it. So, you basically want it diminished and lessened in value like WoW's raiding system is just so that you can feel like a special snowflake and complete what is supposed to be otherwise challenging, brutally hard content.
P.S. Stop calling the developers "arrogant", because it's very hypocritical. They knew what they were making this game into from Day#1 and have said as such (shouted it from rooftops). Everyone knew they were designing a core end-game with heavy, hardcore raiding as goal design. To ask them to dumb it down, to make it weaker, and to ruin their grand design just to appease you...> THAT IS ARROGANT!
I'm not really a fan of raid games or Wildstar. I don't like games that require super huge investments of time to do well. This makes me a casual gamer. On the other hand, I don't think it is right to design a game for casual gamers first. If WS doesn't fit into the casual mode, that is just fine. There is nothing saying that every MMO needs to have WoW subscription numbers to be successful. As long as they stay focused on their targeted base of players (hardcore raiders and a bit of PVP), they should survive a long time. Look at Everquest or DAOC. Both games still have players who PAY. They wouldn't still exist if people didn't still play the game and provided no profit.
I believe that Widlstar and ESO are both profitable right now. Sure, they aren't WoW big in numbers, but I'm sure they have plenty of subscribers to keep them going. Each caters to different aspects of MMO gaming. I think that is a good thing.
If companies think that being as big as WoW is the only way for an MMO to be successful they are sadly mistaken. In this day and age, the market is fragmented, the type of pay model even in contention. MMOs are declining in popularity.
I don't play Wildstar, but I say keep it just like it is. Keep those people who enjoy it like it is happy. Or else you will end up just like WoW, trying to please everyone and ruining a good system (vanilla WoW vs. Now). If you are a casual gamer, go back to WoW or one of the many other games (SWTOR, LOTRO?) that supports this gameplay.
Just my 2cents.
ESO and Wildstar are successful as subscription games right now because they just came out. They are trying to make as much of their initial investment back as fast as possible (wildstar cost over 100 million to make). In the long term, they will have to switch models to F2P.
Look at those other games you mentioned ESO and LOTRO. Also look at SWTOR and RIFT and ....well, all of the games that are not WoW and FF11/14. They ALL came out pay subscription, they all lacked features that were casual friendly (SWToR openly said NO LFR!) and they all went F2P.
What happens to Wildstar's #Hardcore when it inevitably goes F2P? The same people who say "this one will be the one that bucks the trend!" said the same thing about Rift, SWToR, LOTRO etc etc etc. A F2P niche game just won't work.
What you are saying doesn't change anything. The fans of Wildstar will remain in Wildstar when the model changes. Same goes for ESO. SWTOR and RIFT are irrefutable proof of this and quite successful with their new models. In fact, you might argue that RIFT is more successful than the paid model was.
I agree with you. Wildstar could be very successful if it went F2P. It has a lot of good qualities to it that would work great as a casual focused game. When I hear "how to save Wildstar" I don't think "save it from getting the plug pulled", I think "save it from going F2P and becoming so casual you can only play it on friday". The developers want this super hardcore experience that is reminiscient of Vanilla WoW. Name one F2P MMO out there that has that.
The way the F2P model works is by getting as many people into the door as possible to hope that enough buy things from the cash shop. It's a numbers game and by gating people out of content you will drive them away and have less people to purchase what you need.
You make a very good point, and you may be right. I'm not quite sure though. It may not be as simple as that.
Wildstars biggest failing right now is the relative inaccessibility of endgame content to all but a small percentage of players willing to devote the time to run it. Players who are more casual will bore quite quickly after reaching cap as it's currently too difficult for any but highly skilled players to complete let alone atune for raiding.
I thought this is what they considered their biggest strength? They created a game that was supposed to cater to hardcore raiders. If they turn around and do a 180 on that then they may as well just shut down the game altogether, because at that point it's about the money and not what the game was intended to be.
I realize Wildstar has other activities that non-raiders can do, but the focus of this game is its high level raiding. If they didn't design the game knowing only a very small percentage of a MMO's playerbase are hardcore raiders, then their development team is more stupid than I thought.
Wildstars biggest failing right now is the relative inaccessibility of endgame content to all but a small percentage of players willing to devote the time to run it. Players who are more casual will bore quite quickly after reaching cap as it's currently too difficult for any but highly skilled players to complete let alone atune for raiding.
I thought this is what they considered their biggest strength? They created a game that was supposed to cater to hardcore raiders. If they turn around and do a 180 on that then they may as well just shut down the game altogether, because at that point it's about the money and not what the game was intended to be.
I realize Wildstar has other activities that non-raiders can do, but the focus of this game is its high level raiding. If they didn't design the game knowing only a very small percentage of a MMO's playerbase are hardcore raiders, then their development team is more stupid than I thought.
They've already said in one of the livestreams, future raids wont have as "horrific" an attunement. They'll have a thematic quest chain to unlock them
Seems they've realized the attunement for the current raids are a bit overtuned, but at this point they've probably backed themselves into a corner with the 'hardcore' and cant backtrack on the current attunement.
First, this isn't "Carbines" forums, it's MMORPG and addressing them is futile here.
Now to attack your points:
1) Will never happen. period. The developers have said this and keep saying this: NO RAID FINDER EVER!
2) There are "normal" vs Vet, for dungeons. Raids are a gradual progression of these. Do you play this game at all and not realize that?
3) Will never happen. The whole point of getting Silver/Gold is to have reached a certain obtainable skill point in order to progress to the next challenge (i.e. Raids).
4) Will never happen as well. This was in a Stream done by them....1-3 weeks ago. It was one where they mentioned that they have 6 raids in various stages of development right now ( not including dungeons, zones, PvP maps and so on; just raids). None of them will be 10-man, but instead they'll be 10 and 20 man as the current 2 in the game are right now.
Basically your thread is to state that you either haven't joined a "hardcore guild" that's fitting this style of gameplay, or you're awful at the game and cannot meet the set goals for it. So, you basically want it diminished and lessened in value like WoW's raiding system is just so that you can feel like a special snowflake and complete what is supposed to be otherwise challenging, brutally hard content.
P.S. Stop calling the developers "arrogant", because it's very hypocritical. They knew what they were making this game into from Day#1 and have said as such (shouted it from rooftops). Everyone knew they were designing a core end-game with heavy, hardcore raiding as goal design. To ask them to dumb it down, to make it weaker, and to ruin their grand design just to appease you...> THAT IS ARROGANT!
1. SWToR developers said the EXACT SAME THING.
2. there are normal mode dungeons in Wildstar when you hit 50? Where? I, and every other player who isn't you, seem to have missed them. Please: enlighten us
3. Again "will never happen"...until it happens. Carbine has already said they will NOT have another attunment like this one in the future. Even the developer disagrees with you. The game came out and they wanted to slow people down until they could come out with patch fixes and more content. I think it's hilarious that people white knight for them.
Developer: "we have this crazy long attunement"
White Knights: "THIS IS PERFECT! THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!!"
Developer: "we are doing away with the crazy long attunement"
White Knights: "THIS IS PERFECT! THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!!"
4.I think you mean 20 and 40. Also, they said that these are the raids currently in development. They already admitted that if 40 man doesn't work they'll stop making them. At that point, there is nothing stopping them from developing future 10 man raids. It's not likely but never say never.
Just because some people don't like it, doesn't mean that nobody does.
Furthermore, if you probably shouldn't have made improvement suggestions to be polarizing WoW features.
WildStar doesn't need saving, yet. I think they just need some time to refine the game and see what works and what doesn't work, and make changes as necessary. Population may be low now, but FFXIV has grown due to positive changes over time (the only other MMO's I can think of that have actually gained subs over time is EVE and WoW btw), there is no reason why other games can't do the same if they put their mind to it.
I'm still excited to see what Carbine comes up with over the next 6 months.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Yeh lets dumb down, the casual can't achieve so let's make the game easy, because they don't wanna spent time learning or invest time. The problem these days is willing to learn and invest and not worry about when you get it but how to achieve and win.
Time you play a mmo should not be problem, it's a mmo after all there is no limit, time don't matter at all when you reach your goal, if you achieve this in a week or month or year this should not matter at all.
Spoon fed generation treadmill instant cookies that's problem with today's generation.
So 99% of mmo get dumb down so the players are happy how sad:(
Whole mmo industrie is ruined in process bah:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Just because some people don't like it, doesn't mean that nobody does.
Furthermore, if you probably shouldn't have made improvement suggestions to be polarizing WoW features.
Yeah. Each time a new MMO comes out it's all "this game is going to go F2P because of X Y Z" and, as we have seen time and time again, none of them ever do. Just another person crying wolf. LoTRO, Rift, SWtoR, EQ2, Age of Conan, Champions Online, TSW, DC Universe Online, Defiance, Aion etc etc etc
All started with subscriptions...all still sub based.
oh wait...
A smart MMO developer milks subs for as long as they can but have a F2P plan in the works from the get go. Is Carbine smart? Or are they delusional to think they can keep up sub (and hardcore only) forever?
Just because some people don't like it, doesn't mean that nobody does.
Furthermore, if you probably shouldn't have made improvement suggestions to be polarizing WoW features.
WildStar doesn't need saving, yet. I think they just need some time to refine the game and see what works and what doesn't work, and make changes as necessary. Population may be low now, but FFXIV has grown due to positive changes over time (the only other MMO's I can think of that have actually gained subs over time is EVE and WoW btw), there is no reason why other games can't do the same if they put their mind to it.
I'm still excited to see what Carbine comes up with over the next 6 months.
If they made it less time intensive (the end-game) then I would return. And by less time-intensive I do not mean dumbing it down. Some players seem to make the mistake that effluxion of time is somehow synonymous with difficulty. It is not.
In fact, learning a dungeon/raid by rote through constant repetition is mind-numbingly easy.
Hate to piss on your cheerios but wildstar is doing just fine. Years ago they said they were aiming the game toward the Hardcore raiding & pvp niche audiences, and that is exactly what they have built their game to do. Perhaps instead of ranting and raving that they need to change this or that, you should instead find another game that is tailored to fit your particular Niche.
Instead of trying to force your way into another one.
Hate to piss on your cheerios but wildstar is doing just fine. Years ago they said they were aiming the game toward the Hardcore raiding & pvp niche audiences, and that is exactly what they have built their game to do. Perhaps instead of ranting and raving that they need to change this or that, you should instead find another game that is tailored to fit your particular Niche.
Instead of trying to force your way into another one.
The issue arises with how low the population is already though. Making a game for the hardcore community is great and a good idea, but they should of seen this coming imo on the population issues. A simple server merge will fix most of the problems people are having if necessary, but I think Carbine is loathe to do that because server merges generally have a negative connotation even though the outcome is almost always positive.
I agree there needs to be games with hardcore content for hardcore players, but for the game to be profitable they need those players playing beside casual players playing casual content. Otherwise, you end up with the population issues WildStar is having due to only catering to one group of individuals. As I said, server merges is a good way to fix this and keep it hardcore only if they is what they want, but I have a feeling they won't give up the prospect of making money so easily, especially with NC$oft involved in the mess.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
As a player who is currently 3/4 silver dungeons... I must say that the material is hard, but not TOO hard. Once you do a couple "learning" runs, you can generally silver a vet pretty easily (with the exception of swordmaiden). knowing where to stand and where/what/when to interrupt as a group is crucial.
I would recommend if you are having trouble completing content, joining a guild that is currently going through the attunement with an open minded attitude. Most of the people I have played with in my guild have been more than understanding about wipes and deaths. The content is difficult. But learning the content through trial/error and earning your rewards is incredibly gratifying (for me anyway). That is why we play these games. Everyone I have spoken to about the elder game has had the same mindset. We have not had this much fun since progression in vanilla wow!! All you need are 2 or 3 learning runs (with the same people) and lvl 50 blues and you are able to complete all of the dungeons with a silver medal.
There are many aspects of this game that make it desirable. The housing is obviously the strongest feature of this game. I cannot get myself to level to cap because I find myself distracted by the housing system.
The questing is definitely a huge grind, and hard to go more than 1 level at a time due to increased boredom.
I personally don't like raid finder. That causes everyone to sit inside the main cities and wait for queues instead of exploring the world.
The real issue here is the cost. It's $60 for the game and they don't even give a free month subscription. A large majority of the MMORPG community is becoming to accustom to FTP games. Most of the players aren't willing to cough up $75 to play a game that is steadily gaining a bad reputation for becoming stale very quickly.
I'm not saying to make the game FTP, but just the fact that you need to buy a subscription on top of the game is turning away potential players.
My guess is this game will become free-to-play in the future due to the lack of community in the realms.
Gregory Gubish Video Game/Movie Blogger www.goobsworld.com
Hate to piss on your cheerios but wildstar is doing just fine. Years ago they said they were aiming the game toward the Hardcore raiding & pvp niche audiences, and that is exactly what they have built their game to do. Perhaps instead of ranting and raving that they need to change this or that, you should instead find another game that is tailored to fit your particular Niche.
Instead of trying to force your way into another one.
We'd prefer to discuss how to save your game since it's not doing fine at all.
I had this exact same thing said to me before and they were just as wrong as you. The only difference is, it was when SWToR came out. The same Hardcore vs Casual debate was happening. People who wanted the gated end game content told all the "filthy casuals" to go back to WoW. The developers of SWToR initially said that they had no intentions of EVER implementing LFR. I wrote down the names of the people on the forums and then I sent them all PM's when SWToR went F2P to laugh in their faces.
Seems cruel, but hopefully a lesson that wishful thinking and rose tinted glasses are not going to benifit Carbine. I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of those guys are now on the Wildstar forums telling the "filthy casuals" to go back to WoW because Carbine will NEVER make the game casual friendly or go F2P.
Sigh....what is it they say about doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?
No offense, but there are plenty other games for you out there. Not every game has to cater to casuals, especially not in its hardcore content. It's pretty simple, get it into your head already.
You do not like that. Fine. Play another game and leave our Wildstar as it is. Thank you.
PS: I don't care if it ends up being 500 people playing Wildstar. It will be the 500 that matter as far as I'm concerned. And if the game has to close down due to lack of revenue, so be it. But at least it will be worthy game while it lasts.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
first thing: this game does NOT require skill. bashing 3 buttons is not about the skill. its all about the TIME. so what separates casual players from "hardcore" players? its the lack of TIME.
this game suffers from boring leveling and very low xp for finished tasks, dungeons, etc. then there is pvp issue. its just one big chaotic mess. nothing else.
regarding leveling - gw2 should be an example of a good leveling experience.i leveled in ws to lvl 40 and i canceled my subscription and said to myself - f**k this. wont get back until carbine increase xp gain for everything.
Couldnt you say that about any game? Call of duty isnt skill basedyou are just pushing 1 button. Dark Souls isnt skill based you just push 2 buttons. Etc, etc.
you must be really dumb if you think call of duty 4 pro mod is about pressing 1 button.
first thing: this game does NOT require skill. bashing 3 buttons is not about the skill. its all about the TIME. so what separates casual players from "hardcore" players? its the lack of TIME.
this game suffers from boring leveling and very low xp for finished tasks, dungeons, etc. then there is pvp issue. its just one big chaotic mess. nothing else.
regarding leveling - gw2 should be an example of a good leveling experience.i leveled in ws to lvl 40 and i canceled my subscription and said to myself - f**k this. wont get back until carbine increase xp gain for everything.
The game does require skill, unfortunately it doesn't come into play till the dungeons. The dungeons are ridiculous. One of the main problems with Wildstar is the utter gap in pacing of difficulty it has. You go from a very simple and easy (extremely slow and boring IMO) solo questing experience to veteran adventures which require some coordination to the veteran dungeons that can only be described as hardcore to the max. There needs to be something in between those gaps and there isn't.
Factor in the huge time commitment required for attunement, getting gear, putting runes in gear, raiding, and keeping up repair costs and it's a monumental task for someone who wants to raid with a full time job. You pretty much have to be active in Wildstar for all your free time.
I'd never thought I'd say this, but the OP is right the game simply needs more casual and middle of the road content. Currently as it is, to get into raiding, a time commitment worse than EQ's Kunark/Velious era is required. That's a bit too "hardcore" in terms of time commitment, and the skill level of each individual player required to even start raiding is about 10X as "hardcore" as any other MMO to date. The first raid boss in GA doesn't even reflect that difficulty, which is stupid IMO. I realize having attunement is necessary to keep players from barreling through your content, but as it is now it just drives players away from your game.
For some anecdotal evidence, we started with a guild of 50 "hardcore" players with intentions of aiming for server first progression. Within a month, due to lack of being able to get people through attunements and the ridiculous time requirements for attunements the guild broke up completely. Fastest we've ever had a guild fail in our 3 years history of playing MMOs as a community. That's a "hardcore" guild. I can just imagine how a casual would feel the moment they step foot in a veteran dungeon if they even get that far seeing as how I personally think the game has one of the worst leveling experiences in a MMO to date.
No offense, but there are plenty other games for you out there. Not every game has to cater to casuals, especially not in its hardcore content. It's pretty simple, get it into your head already.
You do not like that. Fine. Play another game and leave our Wildstar as it is. Thank you.
PS: I don't care if it ends up being 500 people playing Wildstar. It will be the 500 that matter as far as I'm concerned. And if the game has to close down due to lack of revenue, so be it. But at least it will be worthy game while it lasts.
HAHAHAHA too good.
I just forwarded this along to NCSoft and got their reply. It was short and sweet.
NCSoft: "Cool story bro. Now, where's the money Lebowski?"
NCSoft doesn't care and they are not playing around. They do not want a 100 million dollar niche title and I doubt they were promised a 100 million dollar niche title.
Don't believe me? Go ask COH...oh wait, you can't. Yeah...that game was actually alive...until NCSoft came along and deaded it. They dropped 100 million + to make Wildstar. They are a publicly traded company with stock holders and a board. They want the largest return on their investment possible.
This game will go F2P because ALL games go F2P. WoW get's away with it because it's WoW. FF14 gets away with it because it's developed and published by the same company so they can choose to do with it what they will. Also, they have DEEEEEEEP pockets.
Carbine is a new studio under a very large money hungry publisher.
Hate to piss on your cheerios but wildstar is doing just fine. Years ago they said they were aiming the game toward the Hardcore raiding & pvp niche audiences, and that is exactly what they have built their game to do. Perhaps instead of ranting and raving that they need to change this or that, you should instead find another game that is tailored to fit your particular Niche.
Instead of trying to force your way into another one.
The issue arises with how low the population is already though. Making a game for the hardcore community is great and a good idea, but they should of seen this coming imo on the population issues. A simple server merge will fix most of the problems people are having if necessary, but I think Carbine is loathe to do that because server merges generally have a negative connotation even though the outcome is almost always positive.
I agree there needs to be games with hardcore content for hardcore players, but for the game to be profitable they need those players playing beside casual players playing casual content. Otherwise, you end up with the population issues WildStar is having due to only catering to one group of individuals. As I said, server merges is a good way to fix this and keep it hardcore only if they is what they want, but I have a feeling they won't give up the prospect of making money so easily, especially with NC$oft involved in the mess.
Well said... I look at it the same way as designing games around the hardcore FFA playerbase. It's a very risky plan, better suited to small studios like AV.
With major publishers involved (especially one like NC) it just seems like a possible recipe for failure. As they don't give a rats ass about filling niches, they care about revenue.
I can't see them sticking to such a plan if the rumors about populations are true. Hypothetically speaking anyway.. I get it that the hardcore want their own game, that's understandable. However when you're a part of a small subset like that you have to also accept your subset may not be enough to support a game, at least not one run by a major AAA publisher, who has no qualms about shutting projects down.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No offense, but there are plenty other games for you out there. Not every game has to cater to casuals, especially not in its hardcore content. It's pretty simple, get it into your head already.
You do not like that. Fine. Play another game and leave our Wildstar as it is. Thank you.
PS: I don't care if it ends up being 500 people playing Wildstar. It will be the 500 that matter as far as I'm concerned. And if the game has to close down due to lack of revenue, so be it. But at least it will be worthy game while it lasts.
HAHAHAHA too good.
I just forwarded this along to NCSoft and got their reply. It was short and sweet.
NCSoft: "Cool story bro. Now, where's the money Lebowski?"
NCSoft doesn't care and they are not playing around. They do not want a 100 million dollar niche title and I doubt they were promised a 100 million dollar niche title.
Don't believe me? Go ask COH...oh wait, you can't. Yeah...that game was actually alive...until NCSoft came along and deaded it. They dropped 100 million + to make Wildstar. They are a publicly traded company with stock holders and a board. They want the largest return on their investment possible.
This game will go F2P because ALL games go F2P. WoW get's away with it because it's WoW. FF14 gets away with it because it's developed and published by the same company so they can choose to do with it what they will. Also, they have DEEEEEEEP pockets.
Carbine is a new studio under a very large money hungry publisher.
Comments
ESO and Wildstar are successful as subscription games right now because they just came out. They are trying to make as much of their initial investment back as fast as possible (wildstar cost over 100 million to make). In the long term, they will have to switch models to F2P.
Look at those other games you mentioned ESO and LOTRO. Also look at SWTOR and RIFT and ....well, all of the games that are not WoW and FF11/14. They ALL came out pay subscription, they all lacked features that were casual friendly (SWToR openly said NO LFR!) and they all went F2P.
What happens to Wildstar's #Hardcore when it inevitably goes F2P? The same people who say "this one will be the one that bucks the trend!" said the same thing about Rift, SWToR, LOTRO etc etc etc. A F2P niche game just won't work.
What you are saying doesn't change anything. The fans of Wildstar will remain in Wildstar when the model changes. Same goes for ESO. SWTOR and RIFT are irrefutable proof of this and quite successful with their new models. In fact, you might argue that RIFT is more successful than the paid model was.
I agree with you. Wildstar could be very successful if it went F2P. It has a lot of good qualities to it that would work great as a casual focused game. When I hear "how to save Wildstar" I don't think "save it from getting the plug pulled", I think "save it from going F2P and becoming so casual you can only play it on friday". The developers want this super hardcore experience that is reminiscient of Vanilla WoW. Name one F2P MMO out there that has that.
The way the F2P model works is by getting as many people into the door as possible to hope that enough buy things from the cash shop. It's a numbers game and by gating people out of content you will drive them away and have less people to purchase what you need.
First, this isn't "Carbines" forums, it's MMORPG and addressing them is futile here.
Now to attack your points:
1) Will never happen. period. The developers have said this and keep saying this: NO RAID FINDER EVER!
2) There are "normal" vs Vet, for dungeons. Raids are a gradual progression of these. Do you play this game at all and not realize that?
3) Will never happen. The whole point of getting Silver/Gold is to have reached a certain obtainable skill point in order to progress to the next challenge (i.e. Raids).
4) Will never happen as well. This was in a Stream done by them....1-3 weeks ago. It was one where they mentioned that they have 6 raids in various stages of development right now ( not including dungeons, zones, PvP maps and so on; just raids). None of them will be 10-man, but instead they'll be 10 and 20 man as the current 2 in the game are right now.
Basically your thread is to state that you either haven't joined a "hardcore guild" that's fitting this style of gameplay, or you're awful at the game and cannot meet the set goals for it. So, you basically want it diminished and lessened in value like WoW's raiding system is just so that you can feel like a special snowflake and complete what is supposed to be otherwise challenging, brutally hard content.
P.S. Stop calling the developers "arrogant", because it's very hypocritical. They knew what they were making this game into from Day#1 and have said as such (shouted it from rooftops). Everyone knew they were designing a core end-game with heavy, hardcore raiding as goal design. To ask them to dumb it down, to make it weaker, and to ruin their grand design just to appease you...> THAT IS ARROGANT!
You make a very good point, and you may be right. I'm not quite sure though. It may not be as simple as that.
I thought this is what they considered their biggest strength? They created a game that was supposed to cater to hardcore raiders. If they turn around and do a 180 on that then they may as well just shut down the game altogether, because at that point it's about the money and not what the game was intended to be.
I realize Wildstar has other activities that non-raiders can do, but the focus of this game is its high level raiding. If they didn't design the game knowing only a very small percentage of a MMO's playerbase are hardcore raiders, then their development team is more stupid than I thought.
They've already said in one of the livestreams, future raids wont have as "horrific" an attunement. They'll have a thematic quest chain to unlock them
http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/c/4628420 around 39:00-41:00
Seems they've realized the attunement for the current raids are a bit overtuned, but at this point they've probably backed themselves into a corner with the 'hardcore' and cant backtrack on the current attunement.
1. SWToR developers said the EXACT SAME THING.
2. there are normal mode dungeons in Wildstar when you hit 50? Where? I, and every other player who isn't you, seem to have missed them. Please: enlighten us
3. Again "will never happen"...until it happens. Carbine has already said they will NOT have another attunment like this one in the future. Even the developer disagrees with you. The game came out and they wanted to slow people down until they could come out with patch fixes and more content. I think it's hilarious that people white knight for them.
Developer: "we have this crazy long attunement"
White Knights: "THIS IS PERFECT! THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!!"
Developer: "we are doing away with the crazy long attunement"
White Knights: "THIS IS PERFECT! THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!!"
4.I think you mean 20 and 40. Also, they said that these are the raids currently in development. They already admitted that if 40 man doesn't work they'll stop making them. At that point, there is nothing stopping them from developing future 10 man raids. It's not likely but never say never.
I didn't know WildStar was in need of saving.
Just because some people don't like it, doesn't mean that nobody does.
Furthermore, if you probably shouldn't have made improvement suggestions to be polarizing WoW features.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
WildStar doesn't need saving, yet. I think they just need some time to refine the game and see what works and what doesn't work, and make changes as necessary. Population may be low now, but FFXIV has grown due to positive changes over time (the only other MMO's I can think of that have actually gained subs over time is EVE and WoW btw), there is no reason why other games can't do the same if they put their mind to it.
I'm still excited to see what Carbine comes up with over the next 6 months.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Yeh lets dumb down, the casual can't achieve so let's make the game easy, because they don't wanna spent time learning or invest time.
The problem these days is willing to learn and invest and not worry about when you get it but how to achieve and win.
Time you play a mmo should not be problem, it's a mmo after all there is no limit, time don't matter at all when you reach your goal, if you achieve this in a week or month or year this should not matter at all.
Spoon fed generation treadmill instant cookies that's problem with today's generation.
So 99% of mmo get dumb down so the players are happy how sad:(
Whole mmo industrie is ruined in process bah:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Yeah. Each time a new MMO comes out it's all "this game is going to go F2P because of X Y Z" and, as we have seen time and time again, none of them ever do. Just another person crying wolf. LoTRO, Rift, SWtoR, EQ2, Age of Conan, Champions Online, TSW, DC Universe Online, Defiance, Aion etc etc etc
All started with subscriptions...all still sub based.
oh wait...
A smart MMO developer milks subs for as long as they can but have a F2P plan in the works from the get go. Is Carbine smart? Or are they delusional to think they can keep up sub (and hardcore only) forever?
If they made it less time intensive (the end-game) then I would return. And by less time-intensive I do not mean dumbing it down. Some players seem to make the mistake that effluxion of time is somehow synonymous with difficulty. It is not.
In fact, learning a dungeon/raid by rote through constant repetition is mind-numbingly easy.
Hate to piss on your cheerios but wildstar is doing just fine. Years ago they said they were aiming the game toward the Hardcore raiding & pvp niche audiences, and that is exactly what they have built their game to do. Perhaps instead of ranting and raving that they need to change this or that, you should instead find another game that is tailored to fit your particular Niche.
Instead of trying to force your way into another one.
The issue arises with how low the population is already though. Making a game for the hardcore community is great and a good idea, but they should of seen this coming imo on the population issues. A simple server merge will fix most of the problems people are having if necessary, but I think Carbine is loathe to do that because server merges generally have a negative connotation even though the outcome is almost always positive.
I agree there needs to be games with hardcore content for hardcore players, but for the game to be profitable they need those players playing beside casual players playing casual content. Otherwise, you end up with the population issues WildStar is having due to only catering to one group of individuals. As I said, server merges is a good way to fix this and keep it hardcore only if they is what they want, but I have a feeling they won't give up the prospect of making money so easily, especially with NC$oft involved in the mess.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
As a player who is currently 3/4 silver dungeons... I must say that the material is hard, but not TOO hard. Once you do a couple "learning" runs, you can generally silver a vet pretty easily (with the exception of swordmaiden). knowing where to stand and where/what/when to interrupt as a group is crucial.
I would recommend if you are having trouble completing content, joining a guild that is currently going through the attunement with an open minded attitude. Most of the people I have played with in my guild have been more than understanding about wipes and deaths. The content is difficult. But learning the content through trial/error and earning your rewards is incredibly gratifying (for me anyway). That is why we play these games. Everyone I have spoken to about the elder game has had the same mindset. We have not had this much fun since progression in vanilla wow!! All you need are 2 or 3 learning runs (with the same people) and lvl 50 blues and you are able to complete all of the dungeons with a silver medal.
There are many aspects of this game that make it desirable. The housing is obviously the strongest feature of this game. I cannot get myself to level to cap because I find myself distracted by the housing system.
The questing is definitely a huge grind, and hard to go more than 1 level at a time due to increased boredom.
I personally don't like raid finder. That causes everyone to sit inside the main cities and wait for queues instead of exploring the world.
The real issue here is the cost. It's $60 for the game and they don't even give a free month subscription. A large majority of the MMORPG community is becoming to accustom to FTP games. Most of the players aren't willing to cough up $75 to play a game that is steadily gaining a bad reputation for becoming stale very quickly.
I'm not saying to make the game FTP, but just the fact that you need to buy a subscription on top of the game is turning away potential players.
My guess is this game will become free-to-play in the future due to the lack of community in the realms.
Gregory Gubish
Video Game/Movie Blogger
www.goobsworld.com
We'd prefer to discuss how to save your game since it's not doing fine at all.
I had this exact same thing said to me before and they were just as wrong as you. The only difference is, it was when SWToR came out. The same Hardcore vs Casual debate was happening. People who wanted the gated end game content told all the "filthy casuals" to go back to WoW. The developers of SWToR initially said that they had no intentions of EVER implementing LFR. I wrote down the names of the people on the forums and then I sent them all PM's when SWToR went F2P to laugh in their faces.
Seems cruel, but hopefully a lesson that wishful thinking and rose tinted glasses are not going to benifit Carbine. I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of those guys are now on the Wildstar forums telling the "filthy casuals" to go back to WoW because Carbine will NEVER make the game casual friendly or go F2P.
Sigh....what is it they say about doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?
Wildstar is already safe.
From players like the OP.
No offense, but there are plenty other games for you out there. Not every game has to cater to casuals, especially not in its hardcore content. It's pretty simple, get it into your head already.
You do not like that. Fine. Play another game and leave our Wildstar as it is. Thank you.
PS: I don't care if it ends up being 500 people playing Wildstar. It will be the 500 that matter as far as I'm concerned. And if the game has to close down due to lack of revenue, so be it. But at least it will be worthy game while it lasts.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
you must be really dumb if you think call of duty 4 pro mod is about pressing 1 button.
The game does require skill, unfortunately it doesn't come into play till the dungeons. The dungeons are ridiculous. One of the main problems with Wildstar is the utter gap in pacing of difficulty it has. You go from a very simple and easy (extremely slow and boring IMO) solo questing experience to veteran adventures which require some coordination to the veteran dungeons that can only be described as hardcore to the max. There needs to be something in between those gaps and there isn't.
Factor in the huge time commitment required for attunement, getting gear, putting runes in gear, raiding, and keeping up repair costs and it's a monumental task for someone who wants to raid with a full time job. You pretty much have to be active in Wildstar for all your free time.
I'd never thought I'd say this, but the OP is right the game simply needs more casual and middle of the road content. Currently as it is, to get into raiding, a time commitment worse than EQ's Kunark/Velious era is required. That's a bit too "hardcore" in terms of time commitment, and the skill level of each individual player required to even start raiding is about 10X as "hardcore" as any other MMO to date. The first raid boss in GA doesn't even reflect that difficulty, which is stupid IMO. I realize having attunement is necessary to keep players from barreling through your content, but as it is now it just drives players away from your game.
For some anecdotal evidence, we started with a guild of 50 "hardcore" players with intentions of aiming for server first progression. Within a month, due to lack of being able to get people through attunements and the ridiculous time requirements for attunements the guild broke up completely. Fastest we've ever had a guild fail in our 3 years history of playing MMOs as a community. That's a "hardcore" guild. I can just imagine how a casual would feel the moment they step foot in a veteran dungeon if they even get that far seeing as how I personally think the game has one of the worst leveling experiences in a MMO to date.
HAHAHAHA too good.
I just forwarded this along to NCSoft and got their reply. It was short and sweet.
NCSoft: "Cool story bro. Now, where's the money Lebowski?"
NCSoft doesn't care and they are not playing around. They do not want a 100 million dollar niche title and I doubt they were promised a 100 million dollar niche title.
Don't believe me? Go ask COH...oh wait, you can't. Yeah...that game was actually alive...until NCSoft came along and deaded it. They dropped 100 million + to make Wildstar. They are a publicly traded company with stock holders and a board. They want the largest return on their investment possible.
This game will go F2P because ALL games go F2P. WoW get's away with it because it's WoW. FF14 gets away with it because it's developed and published by the same company so they can choose to do with it what they will. Also, they have DEEEEEEEP pockets.
Carbine is a new studio under a very large money hungry publisher.
Good luck.
You are going to need it.
Well said... I look at it the same way as designing games around the hardcore FFA playerbase. It's a very risky plan, better suited to small studios like AV.
With major publishers involved (especially one like NC) it just seems like a possible recipe for failure. As they don't give a rats ass about filling niches, they care about revenue.
I can't see them sticking to such a plan if the rumors about populations are true. Hypothetically speaking anyway.. I get it that the hardcore want their own game, that's understandable. However when you're a part of a small subset like that you have to also accept your subset may not be enough to support a game, at least not one run by a major AAA publisher, who has no qualms about shutting projects down.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
^indeed