Where are the "low population" figures coming from anyway? I haven't seen any population numbers at any point. The server I play on is always busy and things are always happening, pugs and attunement groups are not hard to find, including pugging the 20 man raid. And I play on the supposedly less populated Dominion faction.
I don't like ESO, but I'm not on their forum talking about how the game needs to change in order for me to like it. If I don't like a game, I put it down and leave it alone. I don't understand why you guys pay THIS much attention to something you don't care about.
Because I do care about WildStar. It's a good game that deserves better than what it has become so far. If I didn't care about how things turned out for WildStar, I wouldn't be here talking about ways to improve the game
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
To be controversial, there are many games that bring nothing new to the genre, and if they died I would not mourn their loss.
A game that is aiming for people who have far too much time on their hands (this game is not about skill, it is about time) is not particularly useful to anyone. Most of it feels ten years out of date (and not even the good parts of what existed ten years ago).
I have no issues with this comment at all. I really like the base of Wildstar. The combat is fun and fluid, the customization is awesome, housing is amazeballs, the difficulty of the dungeons is off the chain and refreshing, adventures....well...OK...i HATE adventures.
Still, I wouldn't mind if it died. Like a huge michael bay explosion of a death. Why? To teach a lesson to the no-lifers. Stop killing good MMO games with petty high-school cliche politics.
I want them to finally see the obvious historical trends and when the next developer pulls this same nonsense, i want them to say "NO...this time we are going to stop the wishful thinking and work with the 'casuals' to keep this game alive"
But...I should just STFU and not let the door hit me...Wildstar is going to do gangbusters. They sold millions out the door and the servers are always at full capacity. Their forums aren't a cesspool of toxicity and no major course directionis have been needed within the first 2 months because of poor decision making (i.e. silver adventures and now RNG itemization) and NCSoft, a company that loves to boast about amazing numbers, came out the other day and just would. not. shut. up. about the subscription numbers for Wildstar.
Nothing to see here folks...move along.
Thanks for not slating me. I would say that on my server (can't remember which one) it was far from full two weeks in and the Wildstar forums at that time were toxic.
Now admittedly that was during the free month when those people who do not like the mechanics are choosing to leave, but the reaction to some considered and insightful posts regarding the reasons for leaving were just painful to read. They were full of misplaced venom.
Anyway, as I said, I do not much care for GW2, I find it shallow and I simply cannot find any immersion; however, I appreciate the jump in dynamic quests. WS- it does nothing, simply nothing for the genre.
I agree.I agree. I was unable to get into GW2 as well. I didn't have direction. I was on Skype with a friend who is still in love with it asking "OK...what do I do?" and he kept saying "this...we are doing it right now. Find adventure. Climb a rock. Go fight that thing. Just do stuff". It's a VEEEEERRRRYYYYY casual game. It swung the pendulum too far in the other direction for me.
Also, you are correct: Wildstar has done NOTHING new for the genre. Everything they have some other game has and has more accessible. What is good about Wildstar is that it takes all of those parts and puts them together into a great whole. They just don't want to share.
In fact, they didn't want to evolve the genre. They explicitly wanted to, in their own words, "do WoW right". They wanted to take a portal back in time to 2004.
It's very simple though: Tone down the Grind NOT the difficulty. also: learn from the past. Don't add LFR since that was a mistake but DO remove 40 man because that ALSO was a mistake.
In fact, remove the RNG rune slots and other RNG nonsense like that. Guess what. D3 fixed that because it was ALSO ALSO ALSO ALSO a mistake.
They could make this game difficult and great...but they won't. And that's a shame.
Where are the "low population" figures coming from anyway? I haven't seen any population numbers at any point. The server I play on is always busy and things are always happening, pugs and attunement groups are not hard to find, including pugging the 20 man raid. And I play on the supposedly less populated Dominion faction.
I don't like ESO, but I'm not on their forum talking about how the game needs to change in order for me to like it. If I don't like a game, I put it down and leave it alone. I don't understand why you guys pay THIS much attention to something you don't care about.
Largely from anecdotal experience. But then that is a pretty good wind sock. Wind sock
To be controversial, there are many games that bring nothing new to the genre, and if they died I would not mourn their loss.
A game that is aiming for people who have far too much time on their hands (this game is not about skill, it is about time) is not particularly useful to anyone. Most of it feels ten years out of date (and not even the good parts of what existed ten years ago).
I have no issues with this comment at all. I really like the base of Wildstar. The combat is fun and fluid, the customization is awesome, housing is amazeballs, the difficulty of the dungeons is off the chain and refreshing, adventures....well...OK...i HATE adventures.
Still, I wouldn't mind if it died. Like a huge michael bay explosion of a death. Why? To teach a lesson to the no-lifers. Stop killing good MMO games with petty high-school cliche politics.
I want them to finally see the obvious historical trends and when the next developer pulls this same nonsense, i want them to say "NO...this time we are going to stop the wishful thinking and work with the 'casuals' to keep this game alive"
But...I should just STFU and not let the door hit me...Wildstar is going to do gangbusters. They sold millions out the door and the servers are always at full capacity. Their forums aren't a cesspool of toxicity and no major course directionis have been needed within the first 2 months because of poor decision making (i.e. silver adventures and now RNG itemization) and NCSoft, a company that loves to boast about amazing numbers, came out the other day and just would. not. shut. up. about the subscription numbers for Wildstar.
Nothing to see here folks...move along.
Thanks for not slating me. I would say that on my server (can't remember which one) it was far from full two weeks in and the Wildstar forums at that time were toxic.
Now admittedly that was during the free month when those people who do not like the mechanics are choosing to leave, but the reaction to some considered and insightful posts regarding the reasons for leaving were just painful to read. They were full of misplaced venom.
Anyway, as I said, I do not much care for GW2, I find it shallow and I simply cannot find any immersion; however, I appreciate the jump in dynamic quests. WS- it does nothing, simply nothing for the genre.
I agree.I agree. I was unable to get into GW2 as well. I didn't have direction. I was on Skype with a friend who is still in love with it asking "OK...what do I do?" and he kept saying "this...we are doing it right now. Find adventure. Climb a rock. Go fight that thing. Just do stuff". It's a VEEEEERRRRYYYYY casual game. It swung the pendulum too far in the other direction for me.
Also, you are correct: Wildstar has done NOTHING new for the genre. Everything they have some other game has and has more accessible. What is good about Wildstar is that it takes all of those parts and puts them together into a great whole. They just don't want to share.
In fact, they didn't want to evolve the genre. They explicitly wanted to, in their own words, "do WoW right". They wanted to take a portal back in time to 2004.
It's very simple though: Tone down the Grind NOT the difficulty. also: learn from the past. Don't add LFR since that was a mistake but DO remove 40 man because that ALSO was a mistake.
In fact, remove the RNG rune slots and other RNG nonsense like that. Guess what. D3 fixed that because it was ALSO ALSO ALSO ALSO a mistake.
They could make this game difficult and great...but they won't. And that's a shame.
I think I said this in an earlier post but some players mistake effluxion of time for difficulty. There is nothing easier than learning a dungeon by rote through repetition.
The game needs to take up less time or it will lose everyone bar basement dwellers.
Where are the "low population" figures coming from anyway? I haven't seen any population numbers at any point. The server I play on is always busy and things are always happening, pugs and attunement groups are not hard to find, including pugging the 20 man raid. And I play on the supposedly less populated Dominion faction.
I don't like ESO, but I'm not on their forum talking about how the game needs to change in order for me to like it. If I don't like a game, I put it down and leave it alone. I don't understand why you guys pay THIS much attention to something you don't care about.
Because I do care about WildStar. It's a good game that deserves better than what it has become so far. If I didn't care about how things turned out for WildStar, I wouldn't be here talking about ways to improve the game
Exactly. I bought TESO as well and ultimately it wasn't for me. it could eventually get to a place where it's a game i'd play again but right now it's nowhere near it. Meh...I don't care one way or the other. I'm not over there telling them why their game is broken and going to go F2P (hint: it most definitely will). Someone else who loves/is frustrated with that game will. hopefully they'll help to make it a better game.
I'm over here though. I quit Wildstar and when my sub ended I lost my ability to express my desires to the publisher (rather silly if you ask me). I want to like Wildstar so much that I'm here on MMORPG.com talking about it. I didn't just say "f this game it sucks I quit". It was like when I was losing my religion years ago. I fought it because there is something that feels right about it even if you know it's ultimately wrong.. I want Wildstar to be a good game that succeeds at giving us "hard"core content.
face it, this game is made to be hard. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T PLAY IT!
It's simple as that. This game will be HC and it'll stay HC and that was one thing we knew about WS, before release. So this game will have its community and that community will enjoy the game as it is and not for "what I would like it to be, but it's not atm so I'll whine on forums to cause ripples".
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
face it, this game is made to be hard. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T PLAY IT!
It's simple as that. This game will be HC and it'll stay HC and that was one thing we knew about WS, before release. So this game will have its community and that community will enjoy the game as it is and not for "what I would like it to be, but it's not atm so I'll whine on forums to cause ripples".
I cancelled my Wildstar sub yesterday. I got six month sub so I be playing more, however I craft. I craft. Crafting is the main thing I do in MMOs. I do not raid. I do not run dungeons. I am a hardcore solo player. Wildstar questing experience is the best I have seen in any MMO I have ever played. But I craft. I am extremely disappointed in the cooking in wildstar. Very easy to get food by just running some challenges that are easy. Many things or suitable substitutes for stuff can be obtained in other ways other than by crafting in the game, i.e. weapons, armor, food, healing medshots, etc. Many things drop in the game making crafting much less meaningful in Wildstar. "End game crafting" as I see it will be done by raiders and not by peeps like me because I will not get the end game crafting schematics because I do not raid.
Crafting is the main reason I play an MMO and crafting is the same reason I always quit playing an MMO.
The idea of challenging content is the only thing keeping me interested in the idea of playing WS. Now if they would do something about the coma inducing questing, 'perfect runs only' loot system, and tone down the Attitude!!1! a bit...
Saving a game is almost impossible because the developers generally never believe what they created is the problem. Its always the darn end users that just don't understand.
HUGE NO to raid finder. That is one of the biggest things that has sent Wow on a downward spiral out of control. Its a TERRBILE system to have. The issue is that most games today have shown how NOT to do end game rather then how to.
....
I do not raid, to much time consuming, but otherwise for end game for normal, busy working people (and I guess we are in majority) there is no better invention in MMO then group finder. And YES, I agree, not all is shiny. Missing something from old times, ... but at the end if I have to choose by LGF-ing in chat 10 hours per day to being able to play 1 hour OR to LFG for 1 hour and play 10 hours ....choice is easy.
HUGE NO to raid finder. That is one of the biggest things that has sent Wow on a downward spiral out of control. Its a TERRBILE system to have. The issue is that most games today have shown how NOT to do end game rather then how to.
....
I do not raid, to much time consuming, but otherwise for end game for normal, busy working people (and I guess we are in majority) there is no better invention in MMO then group finder. And YES, I agree, not all is shiny. Missing something from old times, ... but at the end if I have to choose by LGF-ing in chat 10 hours per day to being able to play 1 hour OR to LFG for 1 hour and play 10 hours ....choice is easy.
So English is not your first language. It is the problem with the WS endgame, it requires huge amounts of time and only basement dwellers have that much time. Unfortunately basement dwellers are fairly rare and fairly poor. But hey, that is the market they went after so good luck to them.
I think the game's biggest problem will be 40 man raiding. WoW figured that out before the notion of this game was even conceived. 40 man raids are only for the hardcore. Anyone who thinks they are a casual player who can do 40 man raiding is most likely not a casual player in the first place.
Being able to gather 40 people requires co-ordination and significant time commitment. These are not really related to player skill.
How does this game compare to vanilla WoW? Looking at some gameplay videos and trying the 7 day trial, this game didn't feel like vanilla WOW at all and I mean that in a bad way. Vanilla WoW was time consuming yes but it also had an amazing atmosphere, game lore and the levelling was very enjoyable. This looks horrible, like an RPG version of Borderlands with some Diablo thrown in.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It's simple as that. This game will be HC and it'll stay HC and that was one thing we knew about WS, before release. So this game will have its community and that community will enjoy the game as it is and not for "what I would like it to be, but it's not atm so I'll whine on forums to cause ripples".
Think the moron missed the point,
Originally posted by Robokapp
Not an inch to casuals.
There seems to be a problem with this "master race"-mentality that is being cultivated from the start from Carbine. It's only for the best, hardest, survival of the fittest, blablabla (btw: is it only a coindidence that one of the most successful guilds in Wildstar is named "Eugenic"?)
What this type of player (I think Carbine is well aware of the problem) is missing: if there aren't enough to play and therefor pay for the game, the lights will go out. Hardcore or not.
But maybe that's what some of these posters really want. After all there is no final survivor if there is no end ....
Originally posted by fivoroth
I think the game's biggest problem will be 40 man raiding. WoW figured that out before the notion of this game was even conceived. 40 man raids are only for the hardcore. Anyone who thinks they are a casual player who can do 40 man raiding is most likely not a casual player in the first place.
Being able to gather 40 people requires co-ordination and significant time commitment. These are not really related to player skill.
If Wildstar's 40man raids were like WoW's 40man, maybe they could make it work. But they are worse in many aspects. And that's why I agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning.
First they are damn hard. In the old WoW 40man you only needed maybe 20-25 players that more or less knew what they are doing. You were able to carry the rest. In Wildstar not so much.
Then you have a very time consuming attunement process. WoW's attunement is nothing against it. Getting players ready to raid is a lot of work. Getting them ready for 40men is even more time consuming. When you loose players it hurts way more than in WoW.
And hard raids with 40 players are also a social challenge. There is not much room for a laid-back attitude. It has to be done very professionally to get it done at all. So not too much fun involved. Players get burned out way faster that way. Maybe you have to replace even more players than usual. Combined with the attunement process a real nighmare.
And finally there is this weird mix between 20man raid and 40man raid in the first tier. I really don't know what Carbine's reasons for this were. But it doesn't make things easier.
So overall much more complicated in Wildstar than in WoW ...
Originally posted by Leftnut59 Saving a game is almost impossible because the developers generally never believe what they created is the problem. Its always the darn end users that just don't understand.
Maybe you are right. But one of the PR slogans Carbine is using states that they actually listen to the players. Not that "listen" necessarily means the same as "acting accordingly". And with almost as many opinions as players around it may not result in a solution all players embrace. But at least there is a chance
What I don't get about Wildstar is that it uses a very juvenile art style that reminds me of a Pixar movie and still tries to market itself as a hardcore game. Granted a games art style is pretty subjective but if they wanted to attract more hardcore gamers they should have went with a more adult and gritty art style. Even the story for the game feels very cliche and not very well thought out. Again I'm not trying to attack the game here I kind of get what Carbine was trying to do with this game and its art direction appeal to fans of the Saturday morning cartoons. I just feel they kind of missed the mark a bit.
Also way too many people are confusing hardcore game mechanics and time sink grinds. Wildstar has some hard dungeons sure but most of the so called hardcore elements are nothing more than time sinks and boring ones at that.
I like the game but the dungeons and raids will be something I will not be able to participate in. Pity I enjoyed it until it came to the dungeons . Still subbed will see how it goes.
It's simple as that. This game will be HC and it'll stay HC and that was one thing we knew about WS, before release. So this game will have its community and that community will enjoy the game as it is and not for "what I would like it to be, but it's not atm so I'll whine on forums to cause ripples".
Think the moron missed the point,
Originally posted by Robokapp
Not an inch to casuals.
There seems to be a problem with this "master race"-mentality that is being cultivated from the start from Carbine. It's only for the best, hardest, survival of the fittest, blablabla (btw: is it only a coindidence that one of the most successful guilds in Wildstar is named "Eugenic"?)
What this type of player (I think Carbine is well aware of the problem) is missing: if there aren't enough to play and therefor pay for the game, the lights will go out. Hardcore or not.
But maybe that's what some of these posters really want. After all there is no final survivor if there is no end ....
Originally posted by fivoroth
I think the game's biggest problem will be 40 man raiding. WoW figured that out before the notion of this game was even conceived. 40 man raids are only for the hardcore. Anyone who thinks they are a casual player who can do 40 man raiding is most likely not a casual player in the first place.
Being able to gather 40 people requires co-ordination and significant time commitment. These are not really related to player skill.
If Wildstar's 40man raids were like WoW's 40man, maybe they could make it work. But they are worse in many aspects. And that's why I agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning.
First they are damn hard. In the old WoW 40man you only needed maybe 20-25 players that more or less knew what they are doing. You were able to carry the rest. In Wildstar not so much.
Then you have a very time consuming attunement process. WoW's attunement is nothing against it. Getting players ready to raid is a lot of work. Getting them ready for 40men is even more time consuming. When you loose players it hurts way more than in WoW.
And hard raids with 40 players are also a social challenge. There is not much room for a laid-back attitude. It has to be done very professionally to get it done at all. So not too much fun involved. Players get burned out way faster that way. Maybe you have to replace even more players than usual. Combined with the attunement process a real nighmare.
I can't really comment on Wildstar as I haven't played it but WoW's raids could be really difficult at times. I mean MC/Onyxia's Lair were easy and could be done with only 20-25 people who had a clue. BWL was a bit of a step up. But as soon as you got to AQ40 and Naxxramas you needed 40 people who knew what they were doing cause those raids were extremely difficult. Naxx probably less than 1% of the WoW population played it.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Well...just wow. Love this thread. But as a casual MMO-RPG player looking into exploring WildStar (as my next SCI-FI game purchase)...would you guys still recommend I do so?
Competition is good, and a lot of people worked hard on this game, so I would hate to see Wildstar not continuing to do good.
I wonder if NCsoft has some tie-in plans. I remember SOE had a subscription program for people who got play multiple SOE games for a few more bucks a month. Maybe Wildstar subscription would keep people occupied if you got some perks with other games - Perhaps a alpha/beta code for English Blade and Soul, and some monthly gems to use in Guild Wars 2 or something like that?
Originally posted by ChampionChupacabra Well...just wow. Love this thread. But as a casual MMO-RPG player looking into exploring WildStar (as my next SCI-FI game purchase)...would you guys still recommend I do so?
I'll try to be Objective:
If you have played WoW, there are a lot of things this game has in common with it. The leveling is very similar as it is heavily focused on the same type of fetch and kill quests you see in WoW. There are only 3 dungeons between levels 1 - 50 but they augment this with Adventures (not my cup of tea) and shiphand missions (which are interesting single player dungeon-esque things that are a lot of fun).
I will say this though: it takes a lot longer to get to 50 in Wildstar than in WoW. Also, do not think to level up via dungeons/adventures (not feasible). Lastly, PvP is apparently broken so it's also not viable.
Housing is pretty awesome and worth looking at (even if only on a free trial). It's crazy customizable.
Combat is fun, but it's not at all passive. You HAVE to keep on your toes and you will be dodging all the time. I enjoy it but there have been complaints by some that it causes paid (especially for older people).
There is a great amount of customization in the game when it comes to transmog gear (called costumes) and dyes. Though, dyes can be a gold sink.
The real issue I see, and why I cannot recommend the game to a casual player; also why I quit, is the end game content. It's EXTREMELY grindy. Just go look at the attunement infographic floating on the internet and decide if that seems like fun. Daily zones are repetative and dungeons are near impossible to PUG (by design apparently). So, if you are not a guild person or prefer to be in a small guild then don't expect to see raids any time soon (or ever). Also, do not expect to jump in the game and pug dungeons.
Also, dungeons and adventures at 50 don't reward you. You can get better crafted gear.
The lore is good so it might be worth giving it a shot just to get into the story. The comedy is hit or miss and the art style takes some getting used to/is not for everyone.
Grab one of the free trials and give it a shot. It's a VERY polarizing game right now.
All your points are valid told everyone I could that with today's gamers hardcore casual whatever that 20 man raiding would not cut it they should have did something like wow and had flex raiding up to 20 man. You hit it dead on when you talked about arrogance it is to sad that a company that says the Devs are listening didn't hear or see the huge problems this game has I don't think they thought it through the attunement bleeds over into to many other areas of the game and effects everyone playing not to mention it is ridiculously hard to achieve at least in the dungeon phase.
Oh and don't get me started on the Warrior tanking I don't think they understand threat for tanks a tank sole mission is to survive and hold threat well warrior tanks in WildStar cannot hold threat it is horrible.
This game has some many issues with end game that I am not sure they can fix fast enough to hold a large portion of the population. The gear progression is a joke and it also is tied heavily with the Attunement process as buying gear with elder gems is tied to killing boss and achieving Gold on dungeon bosses that currently are glitched and very very difficult to kill.
OH lets talk about customer service its the worst I have ever experienced in a game or with any company I have delt with in recent history it is really really bad and WildStar already has a F grade with the BBB as compared to Blizzard who has a A+. I asked to have my 1 year sub refunded as I didn't want to play anymore mostly because of the terrible customer service and their refusal to restore a item even thought the have a one time restore policy on level 45 or higher toon the still refuse to restore my item. So I asked for a refund and received the address to the legal department nice! Oh well I am stuck with a 1 year sub but figure I payed sub fees to blizzard for nothing for many years too.
The biggest problem I see with Wild Star is it lack of leadership my overall impression with this company is that they all are screwing off and not really taking the job seriously I mean it great to have fun at work but from what I can tell they are not as focused as whole and the product suffers. There are pockets of really great people like cougar and Pappy and Bitwise but for the most part I feel like this company is a big joke and very unprofessional and full of themselves.
I can't really comment on Wildstar as I haven't played it but WoW's raids could be really difficult at times. I mean MC/Onyxia's Lair were easy and could be done with only 20-25 people who had a clue. BWL was a bit of a step up. But as soon as you got to AQ40 and Naxxramas you needed 40 people who knew what they were doing cause those raids were extremely difficult. Naxx probably less than 1% of the WoW population played it.
Sure, in Naxx you weren't able to carry weak players anymore. But there was plenty of time from release to get accustomed in the first place. You grew together over time. And as you stated: there were only 1% of the playerbase that actually raided in Naxx. If WoW started with Naxx, guess what would have happened?
That's the real problem with Wildstar: Carbine targets the right playerbase (those who seek a challenge), but they don't give them the time and structure/ mechanics to evolve into a strong community first. That's why I think 40man raids won't work in Wildstar. Not, because you need 40 men ....
But like I said: i agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning
Originally posted by ChampionChupacabra Well...just wow. Love this thread. But as a casual MMO-RPG player looking into exploring WildStar (as my next SCI-FI game purchase)...would you guys still recommend I do so?
To be honest I personally think that as a causual player you won't enjoy Wildstar at all now. There's not enough new players left and you'll want to group. This game is essentially dead for casual players.
I'm sure you've played WoW before but on the off chance you haven't I'd recommend it over Wildstar in a second for "first timers" It's a far better game in almost every respect other than that it doesn't have housing.
It's unfortunate but Wildstar is designed for one type of player only and is, in reality, quite shallow. I'd even recommend one of my old time favorites over it, EQ2, and it's going on 11 years old and it's graphics are quite outdated.
It really IS pretty simple. Stop requesting every game gets dumbed down to appeal to casuals. There is already a TON of content for casuals. Oh noes, can't get carried into raids? TOO BAD. QQ.
1. GOD NO. People can't handle random pugs for vet dungeons. Unless the content is DRAMATICALLY dumbed down, this will never, ever happen. And I'm glad.
2. No idea wtf you're talking about here.
3. Attunement is already easy enough. If people can't handle getting silvers, they simply are not qualified to be raiding. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
4. Sure I guess? Not sure why you think they would be any more accessible than they are now.
5. You realize how arrogant you're being with a bullshit list like this? "How to save Wildstar"? Orly. ARMCHAIR DEV TO THE RESCUE GAIZ
Every thing you listed in your OP is available in other MMOs. Please stop trying to ruin MY enjoyment with your lack of ability and terrible, over homogenized opinions. Go find your loot pinatas elsewhere.
Comments
Because I do care about WildStar. It's a good game that deserves better than what it has become so far. If I didn't care about how things turned out for WildStar, I wouldn't be here talking about ways to improve the game
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
I agree.I agree. I was unable to get into GW2 as well. I didn't have direction. I was on Skype with a friend who is still in love with it asking "OK...what do I do?" and he kept saying "this...we are doing it right now. Find adventure. Climb a rock. Go fight that thing. Just do stuff". It's a VEEEEERRRRYYYYY casual game. It swung the pendulum too far in the other direction for me.
Also, you are correct: Wildstar has done NOTHING new for the genre. Everything they have some other game has and has more accessible. What is good about Wildstar is that it takes all of those parts and puts them together into a great whole. They just don't want to share.
In fact, they didn't want to evolve the genre. They explicitly wanted to, in their own words, "do WoW right". They wanted to take a portal back in time to 2004.
It's very simple though: Tone down the Grind NOT the difficulty. also: learn from the past. Don't add LFR since that was a mistake but DO remove 40 man because that ALSO was a mistake.
In fact, remove the RNG rune slots and other RNG nonsense like that. Guess what. D3 fixed that because it was ALSO ALSO ALSO ALSO a mistake.
They could make this game difficult and great...but they won't. And that's a shame.
Largely from anecdotal experience. But then that is a pretty good wind sock. Wind sock
I think I said this in an earlier post but some players mistake effluxion of time for difficulty. There is nothing easier than learning a dungeon by rote through repetition.
The game needs to take up less time or it will lose everyone bar basement dwellers.
Exactly. I bought TESO as well and ultimately it wasn't for me. it could eventually get to a place where it's a game i'd play again but right now it's nowhere near it. Meh...I don't care one way or the other. I'm not over there telling them why their game is broken and going to go F2P (hint: it most definitely will). Someone else who loves/is frustrated with that game will. hopefully they'll help to make it a better game.
I'm over here though. I quit Wildstar and when my sub ended I lost my ability to express my desires to the publisher (rather silly if you ask me). I want to like Wildstar so much that I'm here on MMORPG.com talking about it. I didn't just say "f this game it sucks I quit". It was like when I was losing my religion years ago. I fought it because there is something that feels right about it even if you know it's ultimately wrong.. I want Wildstar to be a good game that succeeds at giving us "hard"core content.
oh no, another thread "this game is too hard"...
face it, this game is made to be hard. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T PLAY IT!
It's simple as that. This game will be HC and it'll stay HC and that was one thing we knew about WS, before release. So this game will have its community and that community will enjoy the game as it is and not for "what I would like it to be, but it's not atm so I'll whine on forums to cause ripples".
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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Think the moron missed the point,
I cancelled my Wildstar sub yesterday. I got six month sub so I be playing more, however I craft. I craft. Crafting is the main thing I do in MMOs. I do not raid. I do not run dungeons. I am a hardcore solo player. Wildstar questing experience is the best I have seen in any MMO I have ever played. But I craft. I am extremely disappointed in the cooking in wildstar. Very easy to get food by just running some challenges that are easy. Many things or suitable substitutes for stuff can be obtained in other ways other than by crafting in the game, i.e. weapons, armor, food, healing medshots, etc. Many things drop in the game making crafting much less meaningful in Wildstar. "End game crafting" as I see it will be done by raiders and not by peeps like me because I will not get the end game crafting schematics because I do not raid.
Crafting is the main reason I play an MMO and crafting is the same reason I always quit playing an MMO.
I do not raid, to much time consuming, but otherwise for end game for normal, busy working people (and I guess we are in majority) there is no better invention in MMO then group finder. And YES, I agree, not all is shiny. Missing something from old times, ... but at the end if I have to choose by LGF-ing in chat 10 hours per day to being able to play 1 hour OR to LFG for 1 hour and play 10 hours ....choice is easy.
So English is not your first language. It is the problem with the WS endgame, it requires huge amounts of time and only basement dwellers have that much time. Unfortunately basement dwellers are fairly rare and fairly poor. But hey, that is the market they went after so good luck to them.
I think the game's biggest problem will be 40 man raiding. WoW figured that out before the notion of this game was even conceived. 40 man raids are only for the hardcore. Anyone who thinks they are a casual player who can do 40 man raiding is most likely not a casual player in the first place.
Being able to gather 40 people requires co-ordination and significant time commitment. These are not really related to player skill.
How does this game compare to vanilla WoW? Looking at some gameplay videos and trying the 7 day trial, this game didn't feel like vanilla WOW at all and I mean that in a bad way. Vanilla WoW was time consuming yes but it also had an amazing atmosphere, game lore and the levelling was very enjoyable. This looks horrible, like an RPG version of Borderlands with some Diablo thrown in.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
There seems to be a problem with this "master race"-mentality that is being cultivated from the start from Carbine. It's only for the best, hardest, survival of the fittest, blablabla (btw: is it only a coindidence that one of the most successful guilds in Wildstar is named "Eugenic"?)
What this type of player (I think Carbine is well aware of the problem) is missing: if there aren't enough to play and therefor pay for the game, the lights will go out. Hardcore or not.
But maybe that's what some of these posters really want. After all there is no final survivor if there is no end ....
If Wildstar's 40man raids were like WoW's 40man, maybe they could make it work. But they are worse in many aspects. And that's why I agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning.
First they are damn hard. In the old WoW 40man you only needed maybe 20-25 players that more or less knew what they are doing. You were able to carry the rest. In Wildstar not so much.
Then you have a very time consuming attunement process. WoW's attunement is nothing against it. Getting players ready to raid is a lot of work. Getting them ready for 40men is even more time consuming. When you loose players it hurts way more than in WoW.
And hard raids with 40 players are also a social challenge. There is not much room for a laid-back attitude. It has to be done very professionally to get it done at all. So not too much fun involved. Players get burned out way faster that way. Maybe you have to replace even more players than usual. Combined with the attunement process a real nighmare.
And finally there is this weird mix between 20man raid and 40man raid in the first tier. I really don't know what Carbine's reasons for this were. But it doesn't make things easier.
So overall much more complicated in Wildstar than in WoW ...
Maybe you are right. But one of the PR slogans Carbine is using states that they actually listen to the players. Not that "listen" necessarily means the same as "acting accordingly". And with almost as many opinions as players around it may not result in a solution all players embrace. But at least there is a chance
What I don't get about Wildstar is that it uses a very juvenile art style that reminds me of a Pixar movie and still tries to market itself as a hardcore game. Granted a games art style is pretty subjective but if they wanted to attract more hardcore gamers they should have went with a more adult and gritty art style. Even the story for the game feels very cliche and not very well thought out. Again I'm not trying to attack the game here I kind of get what Carbine was trying to do with this game and its art direction appeal to fans of the Saturday morning cartoons. I just feel they kind of missed the mark a bit.
Also way too many people are confusing hardcore game mechanics and time sink grinds. Wildstar has some hard dungeons sure but most of the so called hardcore elements are nothing more than time sinks and boring ones at that.
I can't really comment on Wildstar as I haven't played it but WoW's raids could be really difficult at times. I mean MC/Onyxia's Lair were easy and could be done with only 20-25 people who had a clue. BWL was a bit of a step up. But as soon as you got to AQ40 and Naxxramas you needed 40 people who knew what they were doing cause those raids were extremely difficult. Naxx probably less than 1% of the WoW population played it.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Competition is good, and a lot of people worked hard on this game, so I would hate to see Wildstar not continuing to do good.
I wonder if NCsoft has some tie-in plans. I remember SOE had a subscription program for people who got play multiple SOE games for a few more bucks a month. Maybe Wildstar subscription would keep people occupied if you got some perks with other games - Perhaps a alpha/beta code for English Blade and Soul, and some monthly gems to use in Guild Wars 2 or something like that?
I'll try to be Objective:
If you have played WoW, there are a lot of things this game has in common with it. The leveling is very similar as it is heavily focused on the same type of fetch and kill quests you see in WoW. There are only 3 dungeons between levels 1 - 50 but they augment this with Adventures (not my cup of tea) and shiphand missions (which are interesting single player dungeon-esque things that are a lot of fun).
I will say this though: it takes a lot longer to get to 50 in Wildstar than in WoW. Also, do not think to level up via dungeons/adventures (not feasible). Lastly, PvP is apparently broken so it's also not viable.
Housing is pretty awesome and worth looking at (even if only on a free trial). It's crazy customizable.
Combat is fun, but it's not at all passive. You HAVE to keep on your toes and you will be dodging all the time. I enjoy it but there have been complaints by some that it causes paid (especially for older people).
There is a great amount of customization in the game when it comes to transmog gear (called costumes) and dyes. Though, dyes can be a gold sink.
The real issue I see, and why I cannot recommend the game to a casual player; also why I quit, is the end game content. It's EXTREMELY grindy. Just go look at the attunement infographic floating on the internet and decide if that seems like fun. Daily zones are repetative and dungeons are near impossible to PUG (by design apparently). So, if you are not a guild person or prefer to be in a small guild then don't expect to see raids any time soon (or ever). Also, do not expect to jump in the game and pug dungeons.
Also, dungeons and adventures at 50 don't reward you. You can get better crafted gear.
The lore is good so it might be worth giving it a shot just to get into the story. The comedy is hit or miss and the art style takes some getting used to/is not for everyone.
Grab one of the free trials and give it a shot. It's a VERY polarizing game right now.
All your points are valid told everyone I could that with today's gamers hardcore casual whatever that 20 man raiding would not cut it they should have did something like wow and had flex raiding up to 20 man. You hit it dead on when you talked about arrogance it is to sad that a company that says the Devs are listening didn't hear or see the huge problems this game has I don't think they thought it through the attunement bleeds over into to many other areas of the game and effects everyone playing not to mention it is ridiculously hard to achieve at least in the dungeon phase.
Oh and don't get me started on the Warrior tanking I don't think they understand threat for tanks a tank sole mission is to survive and hold threat well warrior tanks in WildStar cannot hold threat it is horrible.
This game has some many issues with end game that I am not sure they can fix fast enough to hold a large portion of the population. The gear progression is a joke and it also is tied heavily with the Attunement process as buying gear with elder gems is tied to killing boss and achieving Gold on dungeon bosses that currently are glitched and very very difficult to kill.
OH lets talk about customer service its the worst I have ever experienced in a game or with any company I have delt with in recent history it is really really bad and WildStar already has a F grade with the BBB as compared to Blizzard who has a A+. I asked to have my 1 year sub refunded as I didn't want to play anymore mostly because of the terrible customer service and their refusal to restore a item even thought the have a one time restore policy on level 45 or higher toon the still refuse to restore my item. So I asked for a refund and received the address to the legal department nice! Oh well I am stuck with a 1 year sub but figure I payed sub fees to blizzard for nothing for many years too.
The biggest problem I see with Wild Star is it lack of leadership my overall impression with this company is that they all are screwing off and not really taking the job seriously I mean it great to have fun at work but from what I can tell they are not as focused as whole and the product suffers. There are pockets of really great people like cougar and Pappy and Bitwise but for the most part I feel like this company is a big joke and very unprofessional and full of themselves.
Sure, in Naxx you weren't able to carry weak players anymore. But there was plenty of time from release to get accustomed in the first place. You grew together over time. And as you stated: there were only 1% of the playerbase that actually raided in Naxx. If WoW started with Naxx, guess what would have happened?
That's the real problem with Wildstar: Carbine targets the right playerbase (those who seek a challenge), but they don't give them the time and structure/ mechanics to evolve into a strong community first. That's why I think 40man raids won't work in Wildstar. Not, because you need 40 men ....
But like I said: i agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning
To be honest I personally think that as a causual player you won't enjoy Wildstar at all now. There's not enough new players left and you'll want to group. This game is essentially dead for casual players.
I'm sure you've played WoW before but on the off chance you haven't I'd recommend it over Wildstar in a second for "first timers" It's a far better game in almost every respect other than that it doesn't have housing.
It's unfortunate but Wildstar is designed for one type of player only and is, in reality, quite shallow. I'd even recommend one of my old time favorites over it, EQ2, and it's going on 11 years old and it's graphics are quite outdated.
It really IS pretty simple. Stop requesting every game gets dumbed down to appeal to casuals. There is already a TON of content for casuals. Oh noes, can't get carried into raids? TOO BAD. QQ.
1. GOD NO. People can't handle random pugs for vet dungeons. Unless the content is DRAMATICALLY dumbed down, this will never, ever happen. And I'm glad.
2. No idea wtf you're talking about here.
3. Attunement is already easy enough. If people can't handle getting silvers, they simply are not qualified to be raiding. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
4. Sure I guess? Not sure why you think they would be any more accessible than they are now.
5. You realize how arrogant you're being with a bullshit list like this? "How to save Wildstar"? Orly. ARMCHAIR DEV TO THE RESCUE GAIZ
Every thing you listed in your OP is available in other MMOs. Please stop trying to ruin MY enjoyment with your lack of ability and terrible, over homogenized opinions. Go find your loot pinatas elsewhere.