Anofalye, I do understand your point about turning your back on a game if it enforces PvP on you (or crafting/raiding,...), but every game has it's own typical aspect, which you cannot ignore and to which you'll have to devote LOTS of time (DaoC= PVP, EQ 2=big dungeon raids, and even WoW must have some kind of content)
So I think Warhammer Online will not really be your cup of tea. After all, Mythic already said it was going to be the biggest RvR system ever. (personnally, I think Mythic means: "Warhammer Online= DaoC 2). I think you could consider this as being "enforced PvP".
------------------------------------------ Basil Fawlty: [to telephone operator] I've been trying to get through to the speaking clock... Well, it's engaged... Well, it's been engaged for ten minutes. How is this possible? My wife isn't talking to it.
I really hope that GW is very involved in the creation for they might not let it become some "slap my avatar" type of game. Don't get me wrong. There could be full PvP everywhere. At least if you're chaotic. And then there of course could be the fanatics gaining frenzy points burning the chaos infused, warlocks and witches at the stakes. Once and for all. Everything has it's price. After all Warrhammer is a dark and violent universe.
That was just an Idea of how PvP could play major a role within Warhammer online. Since it is initially thought as an MMORPG it would suit so very much. Well dreaming is allowed, isn't it.
Originally posted by Avitu Anofalye, I do understand your point about turning your back on a game if it enforces PvP on you (or crafting/raiding,...), but every game has it's own typical aspect, which you cannot ignore and to which you'll have to devote LOTS of time (DaoC= PVP, EQ 2=big dungeon raids, and even WoW must have some kind of content) So I think Warhammer Online will not really be your cup of tea. After all, Mythic already said it was going to be the biggest RvR system ever. (personnally, I think Mythic means: "Warhammer Online= DaoC 2). I think you could consider this as being "enforced PvP".
Yea the RvR should be the Largest ever, and rightfully so. The game is based only partially on the pencil and paper Warhammer Fantasy RPG, but it's more based on the Tabletop wargame called Warhammer, with alot of leaning toward the fiction that is in many of the novels and such, atleast from what I have heard/read. I could be wrong. But I certainlyi hope for it.
There is alot of conflict even within the Empire. Chaos, and all of the playable races, that it should be possible to have a battle within the confines of the Realm. But as for Standard PvP they'll have to make it somehow voluntary, either based on the area you are in, or some kind of flag system.
I think the Orcs should be able to target each other in any circumstance!!!! after all, "animosity" exists in every form of Warhammer when it comes to the Orcs, because they're brutish, and barbaric. and there should be a circumstance where as an orc you get bumbed in combat and turn to the one that bumped you and say "Oy, you 'it me, you lousy tuthless fungus!!!" and start beating away on even one of your so called friends. =P
Basically they need to make sure whatever PvP style is picked matches the story/background. You would not have carnage in the streets of the empires cities, you would not have inquisitors ambushing witch hunters, but humans, elves and Dwarves should be auto PvP vs Chaos, Ork, Skaven etc. You really need a combination of protected areas, restrictions within races and restrictions within classes. Then balance the loss of the xp, gold, items, to the benefit to the winner, and scale this based on level (a 50th level character should gain nothing for killing 1st level characters). Not an easy task, and one that lots of games handle differently, be interesting to see what Mythic announce on this front.
imo for this game to feel like Warhammer it has to have a well rounded PVP part.
I would like to see things like "contested territories" in WoW, just going the step further by making towns in these zones and the zones in general conquestable. By this I mean, using PVP as a means to conquor specific areas of the world. The conquored towns should then become inhabited with new NPC for the winners of the battle, thus opening new room for different quests and merchants etc.
Furthermore it should be possible to lay siege (not conquor completely) the main cities of each faction. By doing this stuff inside of the sieged towns should become more scarce, prices should rise and it should quickly become the common goal for the players in the faction under siege to strike back and release the city from the siege.
Something like that. I just want to see more than the pointless stuff that blizzard has added to WoW. The game is PvE with an awkward semi pvp part added to it.
I like the sound of that caero, sounds like a viable vision.
It could be intersting in the contested areas, even the economy could be out of whack - comsumables such as arrows, potions etc overpriced with other itms cheap so as to draw people into the area and the war...
I guess over time the frountiers could be pushed and as you say the cities sieged - although they'd have to be very carefull about player balance (unless they play goblins of course )
Interesting...
EDIT: Correcting typos!! (probably missed some!)
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Well, that post was fun to go through. I'd comment on the Original Post, but considering it's age and the fact that the poster didn't reply in over a month I'll just say this: There's always people like him who call every game that doesn't let you go everywhere and let you mindlessly slaughter everyone without a second thought carebear. If you want this sort of gameplay, then you'll have to search for a MUD, since no commercial product can afford to put that sort of gameplay in and expect to land a major success. I guess he moved on to another board to tell people their game is for carebears who like to jump around in pink tutus, though.
Anyway, as someone above me, I'd like to see the RvR concept extended. The much talked about realm invasion comes to mind, the RvR area should make up a larger area of the gameworld and should actually have some purpose. Capturable towns for example would be sweet indeed!
If the RvR system is enforced upon every player (giving better rewards in every day life), than Warhammer online would lose at least 50% of the potential players it could reach.
Folks who enjoy RvR would still flock to Warhammer, regardless of RvR having impact or not on the other aspect of the game.
But that choice is not mine to make. However, after reading Imperator orientation and understanding, I would be surprised if the RvR is enforced on every player...especially that even if Warhammer is a fine setting for RvR, the Warhammer fanbase are not fans who want to hoard by groups of 10+ players. Yet, like I said, I doesn't make the choices for Mythic and no matter what direction they are heading now, it can be change 3 months or so before release since it affect the reward system...something strong can be build in 3 months.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Avitu Anofalye, I do understand your point about turning your back on a game if it enforces PvP on you (or crafting/raiding,...), but every game has it's own typical aspect, which you cannot ignore and to which you'll have to devote LOTS of time (DaoC= PVP, EQ 2=big dungeon raids, and even WoW must have some kind of content)
But that is part of the problem.
They all offer good grouping/soloing and they end poorly. The company who respect grouping/solo up to the end of the game and never leave it behind is in for massive support.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by warbirds64 WOW - Have you played WOw in a PVP server - Guess not if you have no clue of what you are talking about.
What's your point? That WoW has a great PvP system? HAH! It might have had some merit before they came up with those silly Battlegrounds, when there were still raids going on in the World, but now it's the same as PvE instance grinding, with the small difference that you fight players not mobs. Other then some ganking while you quest there isn't much PvP outside of instances to speak of.
I quit wow when they introduced Battlegrounds as it was just another grind.
This is being made by Mythic - The same folks who over power a realm and then try to revamp or even up a realm to make things even again. They screw the game up more then they fix it.But still people flock to it - Warhammer is a great Idea- but will be a DAOC clone in a Different world.
Well, Mythic didn't take the easy way out and just made all three realms carbon copies of the others with a token realm-specific class like Blizzard did. Not saying that they didn't make mistakes, I haven't play daoc in 2 years, but there is no such thing as absolute balance in a MMORPG anyway.
Saying that it'll be a clone of DAoC is just silly. Was Warcraft 3 a clone of Warcraft 1? Yes, in some ways it was, but it had a lot of improvements over the original. It's called EVOLUTION!
Originally posted by EliasThorne I like the sound of that caero, sounds like a viable vision.It could be intersting in the contested areas, even the economy could be out of whack - comsumables such as arrows, potions etc overpriced with other itms cheap so as to draw people into the area and the war...I guess over time the frountiers could be pushed and as you say the cities sieged - although they'd have to be very carefull about player balance (unless they play goblins of course )Interesting... EDIT: Correcting typos!! (probably missed some!)
as good as realm invasion sounds on paper, it would never work. in every game where there is warring sides (daoc,wow) there is always a realm the outnumbers the other on every server. some of them grossly outnumber. on realm invasion, the stronger realm would end up just completely shutting down the weakest or both the other 2 realms. like in daoc some servers where one realm has held all 6 relics since forever and outnumber the other 2 realms 4 to 1. on a realm invasion setting that realm would just dominate the entire game. people would leave the losing realms because they had no chance.
as good as realm invasion sounds on paper, it would never work. in every game where there is warring sides (daoc,wow) there is always a realm the outnumbers the other on every server. some of them grossly outnumber. on realm invasion, the stronger realm would end up just completely shutting down the weakest or both the other 2 realms. like in daoc some servers where one realm has held all 6 relics since forever and outnumber the other 2 realms 4 to 1. on a realm invasion setting that realm would just dominate the entire game. people would leave the losing realms because they had no chance.
This is why RvR must have no impact on every other aspect of the game, only on the RvR, so folks who participate does it for RvR, not for PvE or small PvP reasons. Just my opinion, but nothing is gained by shafting some players and rewarding other due on an independant factor they have no power over.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
A good example though is Planetside. They have kept all of the realms pretty close to eachothers popluation, with good, yet not unbalanced benefits for outnumbered factions.
Warhammer is a great Idea- but will be a DAOC clone in a Different world.
According to Mark Jacobs, they are creating an entirely new and different combat system for WAR. Some things will be similar to DAoC, for instance, the 3 realms setup, and likely some of the mechanics of PvP/RvR, but the content and many of the game mechanics will not resemble DAoC. The look, the feel of the game will be entirely new and different.
Can't wait to see what they put out for E3 in May.
Originally posted by disstress lol, it will be similar to DAoC, seeing as it is being made by the same people. Mythic put in hardcore servers in DAoC for the 100 people that wanted to play that way.
Lineage2 has great graphics, you drop crap when you die and you can send tells to your enemies griefing them the whole time. It sounds like that game would be better for you. But I'm confused about one thing, why would you want to be penalized for PvP(loosing loot) that deters PvP, doesn't promote it. You are also against rewards from PvP. How does this equate to Pacman? How does whispering your enemies hinder rolepaying? Explain how this game will cater to "weak-minded players".
L2 you rarely drop items as a blue player. Red players drop items frequently. Items is what makes the character not skill. THerefore as a red player if you lose your items you have to have a strong tie with ebay in order to buy your items back, thus defeating the purpose of this game. L2 is a harsh grind for people who play 24/7 non stop (aka koreans).
Losing loot is fun, because if I kill 10 players in a row I amass great wealth in the game and I make true enemies when they feel the sting of losing their items.
THe best reward is when you kill a player and take their loot. I'm not interested in killing a bunch of players for points then using those points to receieve and item that did not once belong to another player. I like taking peoples loot and jacking them, that is fun.
Weak minded players. PVE is for the stupid and weak. This game is for people who play poker without betting any money and you know how stupid and non-risky that is.
I remember when the first Warcraft game came out. I was playing Warhammer the RPG back then and also the miniature game, though no where near to the level that others on this forum have . I remember I thought Warcraft was so cool. It was cool because they COPIED Warhammer. Its funny to me when i see people post that this is a WoW clone. Warcraft was originally created because the blizzard people liked Warhammer fantasy and thought it would be cool to make it into a video game but didnt want to pay for the franchise rights. Or they probably tried but couldnt afford it at the time. Its just been around so long that people forget what came from what.
Originally posted by Scott762x51 I remember when the first Warcraft game came out. I was playing Warhammer the RPG back then and also the miniature game, though no where near to the level that others on this forum have . I remember I thought Warcraft was so cool. It was cool because they COPIED Warhammer. Its funny to me when i see people post that this is a WoW clone. Warcraft was originally created because the blizzard people liked Warhammer fantasy and thought it would be cool to make it into a video game but didnt want to pay for the franchise rights. Or they probably tried but couldnt afford it at the time. Its just been around so long that people forget what came from what.
Originally posted by Darktongue Reality check. Risk? where? its a GAME!
Get a life and have some fun ffs.
To some people who log in maybe once a week (such as most gamers do) It is a risk to have finally gotten some high end piece of equipment and think "yay, I can't wait to log in and finally slay that stupid creature on my quest" (because most people do have lives, unlike those who play games 8-10 hours a day) Only to have to wait a week, finally get to their game day, log in only to be killed outright by some jerk kid who takes his beloved sword or whatever and sell it to the highest bidder on the bazaar or equilivant, before they ever get to their quest. This is the part that's not "fun ffs."
It makes people quit games. This is not the goal of a game maker. The goal is to make games to gain people. Not loose them.
The Nice and accurate Prophecies according to Harafnir Nutter
Translation:
"I get beaten to a bleeding pulp in school, and in any skillbased PvP like Counter Strike or Battlefield, I am like the chicken crossing the road.... Walking target practice.
So PLEASE give me a nonskill RPG so I finally can feel like I am worth something, by ganking people 40 levels lower than me...
BTW I rule... I do, promise... Bah, die."
End translation
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
I hope for the dangers and death penalties that the flavor or the Warhammer Universe seems to support. Alternate Rules server(s) would be fine. But it shoul be a bit more "hardcore" than DAoC.
Thanks.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
Originally posted by phunkymunkey I hope for the dangers and death penalties that the flavor or the Warhammer Universe seems to support. Alternate Rules server(s) would be fine. But it shoul be a bit more "hardcore" than DAoC.
Thanks.
Well, according to Mark Jacobs, and what he's said about the game thus far. You can hope in one hand, and crap in the other and see what you get in the end.
i dont see how droppping items in pvp makes pvp better, in my opinion this is why devs are avoiding hardcore pvp because most people dont want it. what so good about drop items anyway, i cant understand how someone would think this would be a fun addition to a game. oh i just worked my ass off to get this sword look guys, "gank, kerplonk" rogue from behind kills me without me getting a chance to defend myself, and loots my sword, HOW IN THE HELL IS THAT FUN. i love pvp dont get me wrong but why should u be punish for pvping. award the player for killing you, but no dropping items, its just stupid.
Comments
Anofalye, I do understand your point about turning your back on a game if it enforces PvP on you (or crafting/raiding,...), but every game has it's own typical aspect, which you cannot ignore and to which you'll have to devote LOTS of time (DaoC= PVP, EQ 2=big dungeon raids, and even WoW must have some kind of content)
So I think Warhammer Online will not really be your cup of tea. After all, Mythic already said it was going to be the biggest RvR system ever. (personnally, I think Mythic means: "Warhammer Online= DaoC 2). I think you could consider this as being "enforced PvP".
------------------------------------------
Basil Fawlty: [to telephone operator] I've been trying to get through to the speaking clock... Well, it's engaged... Well, it's been engaged for ten minutes. How is this possible? My wife isn't talking to it.
Hi all.
I really hope that GW is very involved in the creation for they might not let it become some "slap my avatar" type of game. Don't get me wrong. There could be full PvP everywhere. At least if you're chaotic. And then there of course could be the fanatics gaining frenzy points burning the chaos infused, warlocks and witches at the stakes. Once and for all. Everything has it's price. After all Warrhammer is a dark and violent universe.
That was just an Idea of how PvP could play major a role within Warhammer online. Since it is initially thought as an MMORPG it would suit so very much.
Well dreaming is allowed, isn't it.
Yea the RvR should be the Largest ever, and rightfully so. The game is based only partially on the pencil and paper Warhammer Fantasy RPG, but it's more based on the Tabletop wargame called Warhammer, with alot of leaning toward the fiction that is in many of the novels and such, atleast from what I have heard/read. I could be wrong. But I certainlyi hope for it.
There is alot of conflict even within the Empire. Chaos, and all of the playable races, that it should be possible to have a battle within the confines of the Realm. But as for Standard PvP they'll have to make it somehow voluntary, either based on the area you are in, or some kind of flag system.
I think the Orcs should be able to target each other in any circumstance!!!! after all, "animosity" exists in every form of Warhammer when it comes to the Orcs, because they're brutish, and barbaric. and there should be a circumstance where as an orc you get bumbed in combat and turn to the one that bumped you and say "Oy, you 'it me, you lousy tuthless fungus!!!" and start beating away on even one of your so called friends. =P
imo for this game to feel like Warhammer it has to have a well rounded PVP part.
I would like to see things like "contested territories" in WoW, just going the step further by making towns in these zones and the zones in general conquestable. By this I mean, using PVP as a means to conquor specific areas of the world. The conquored towns should then become inhabited with new NPC for the winners of the battle, thus opening new room for different quests and merchants etc.
Furthermore it should be possible to lay siege (not conquor completely) the main cities of each faction. By doing this stuff inside of the sieged towns should become more scarce, prices should rise and it should quickly become the common goal for the players in the faction under siege to strike back and release the city from the siege.
Something like that. I just want to see more than the pointless stuff that blizzard has added to WoW. The game is PvE with an awkward semi pvp part added to it.
I like the sound of that caero, sounds like a viable vision.
It could be intersting in the contested areas, even the economy could be out of whack - comsumables such as arrows, potions etc overpriced with other itms cheap so as to draw people into the area and the war...
I guess over time the frountiers could be pushed and as you say the cities sieged - although they'd have to be very carefull about player balance (unless they play goblins of course
)
Interesting...
EDIT: Correcting typos!! (probably missed some!)
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Well, that post was fun to go through. I'd comment on the Original Post, but considering it's age and the fact that the poster didn't reply in over a month I'll just say this: There's always people like him who call every game that doesn't let you go everywhere and let you mindlessly slaughter everyone without a second thought carebear. If you want this sort of gameplay, then you'll have to search for a MUD, since no commercial product can afford to put that sort of gameplay in and expect to land a major success. I guess he moved on to another board to tell people their game is for carebears who like to jump around in pink tutus, though.
Anyway, as someone above me, I'd like to see the RvR concept extended. The much talked about realm invasion comes to mind, the RvR area should make up a larger area of the gameworld and should actually have some purpose. Capturable towns for example would be sweet indeed!
WOW - Have you played WOw in a PVP server - Guess not if you have no clue of what you are talking about.
This is being made by Mythic - The same folks who over power a realm and then try to revamp or even up a realm to make things even again.
They screw the game up more then they fix it.
But still people flock to it -
Warhammer is a great Idea- but will be a DAOC clone in a Different world.
If the RvR system is enforced upon every player (giving better rewards in every day life), than Warhammer online would lose at least 50% of the potential players it could reach.
Folks who enjoy RvR would still flock to Warhammer, regardless of RvR having impact or not on the other aspect of the game.
But that choice is not mine to make. However, after reading Imperator orientation and understanding, I would be surprised if the RvR is enforced on every player...especially that even if Warhammer is a fine setting for RvR, the Warhammer fanbase are not fans who want to hoard by groups of 10+ players. Yet, like I said, I doesn't make the choices for Mythic and no matter what direction they are heading now, it can be change 3 months or so before release since it affect the reward system...something strong can be build in 3 months.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
But that is part of the problem.
They all offer good grouping/soloing and they end poorly. The company who respect grouping/solo up to the end of the game and never leave it behind is in for massive support.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What's your point? That WoW has a great PvP system? HAH! It might have had some merit before they came up with those silly Battlegrounds, when there were still raids going on in the World, but now it's the same as PvE instance grinding, with the small difference that you fight players not mobs. Other then some ganking while you quest there isn't much PvP outside of instances to speak of.
I quit wow when they introduced Battlegrounds as it was just another grind.
Well, Mythic didn't take the easy way out and just made all three realms carbon copies of the others with a token realm-specific class like Blizzard did. Not saying that they didn't make mistakes, I haven't play daoc in 2 years, but there is no such thing as absolute balance in a MMORPG anyway.
Saying that it'll be a clone of DAoC is just silly. Was Warcraft 3 a clone of Warcraft 1? Yes, in some ways it was, but it had a lot of improvements over the original. It's called EVOLUTION!
Oh they're a carebear they don't want to have pointless grief and annoying tedious gameplay :S So what?
WOW is a good game and the PVP is fun! Thats all thet matters tbh.
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
as good as realm invasion sounds on paper, it would never work. in every game where there is warring sides (daoc,wow) there is always a realm the outnumbers the other on every server. some of them grossly outnumber.
on realm invasion, the stronger realm would end up just completely shutting down the weakest or both the other 2 realms.
like in daoc some servers where one realm has held all 6 relics since forever and outnumber the other 2 realms 4 to 1. on a realm invasion setting that realm would just dominate the entire game. people would leave the losing realms because they had no chance.
This is why RvR must have no impact on every other aspect of the game, only on the RvR, so folks who participate does it for RvR, not for PvE or small PvP reasons. Just my opinion, but nothing is gained by shafting some players and rewarding other due on an independant factor they have no power over.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
A good example though is Planetside. They have kept all of the realms pretty close to eachothers popluation, with good, yet not unbalanced benefits for outnumbered factions.
---------------------------------------------------
| www.40ksource.net - 40k MMO fansite
According to Mark Jacobs, they are creating an entirely new and different combat system for WAR. Some things will be similar to DAoC, for instance, the 3 realms setup, and likely some of the mechanics of PvP/RvR, but the content and many of the game mechanics will not resemble DAoC. The look, the feel of the game will be entirely new and different.
Can't wait to see what they put out for E3 in May.
L2 you rarely drop items as a blue player. Red players drop items frequently. Items is what makes the character not skill. THerefore as a red player if you lose your items you have to have a strong tie with ebay in order to buy your items back, thus defeating the purpose of this game. L2 is a harsh grind for people who play 24/7 non stop (aka koreans).
Losing loot is fun, because if I kill 10 players in a row I amass great wealth in the game and I make true enemies when they feel the sting of losing their items.
THe best reward is when you kill a player and take their loot. I'm not interested in killing a bunch of players for points then using those points to receieve and item that did not once belong to another player. I like taking peoples loot and jacking them, that is fun.
Weak minded players. PVE is for the stupid and weak. This game is for people who play poker without betting any money and you know how stupid and non-risky that is.
Burningpain
Reality check.
Risk? where? its a GAME!
Get a life and have some fun ffs.
http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html
To some people who log in maybe once a week (such as most gamers do) It is a risk to have finally gotten some high end piece of equipment and think "yay, I can't wait to log in and finally slay that stupid creature on my quest" (because most people do have lives, unlike those who play games 8-10 hours a day) Only to have to wait a week, finally get to their game day, log in only to be killed outright by some jerk kid who takes his beloved sword or whatever and sell it to the highest bidder on the bazaar or equilivant, before they ever get to their quest. This is the part that's not "fun ffs."
It makes people quit games. This is not the goal of a game maker. The goal is to make games to gain people. Not loose them.
The Nice and accurate Prophecies according to Harafnir Nutter
Translation:
"I get beaten to a bleeding pulp in school, and in any skillbased PvP like Counter Strike or Battlefield, I am like the chicken crossing the road.... Walking target practice.
So PLEASE give me a nonskill RPG so I finally can feel like I am worth something, by ganking people 40 levels lower than me...
BTW I rule... I do, promise... Bah, die."
End translation
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Ignore this post -- misread a previous one.
---------------------------------------------------
| www.40ksource.net - 40k MMO fansite
I hope for the dangers and death penalties that the flavor or the Warhammer Universe seems to support. Alternate Rules server(s) would be fine. But it shoul be a bit more "hardcore" than DAoC.
Thanks.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.