Honestly not sure what everyone was expecting. They said from the start (even showed us combat at the reveal) that it would be action oriented. Even threw out MOBAs as a comparison, SMITE being the easiest to compare.
Very simplified version of what we'll see in EQN, but looks and feels pretty good to me considering the context. Then again I've tired of standing still clicking 50 buttons. Glad my time with TF2 and Smite will come in handy.
Hopefully now that some of those already upset with the art style and other features of EQN can move on and find something better matching what they want in a game. No need to linger.
Dear GOD no. It looks like I'm watching an I.T. Specialists inner workings on a code machine. On top of that the combat is junky, slow and but effing ugly. I look at FFXIV and games like it and it makes me cringe to think how bad combat in games like this are. To those who eschew this action combat then great, but you only show your true colors when you besmirch and demean a game because of its innovative game design in combat mechanics.
Interesting that you dislike popular game mechanics, and prefer MOBA style combat to that most commonly found in MMO's. But, if you look at the youtube vid again, and take away all the UI windows, which are just cluttering up the screen anyway, vamp the graphics a bit, reduce the in game commands to just a few that you can easily remove from the UI and just have them tied to a few of the controller keys etc. And 'Presto'
As for innovative game design and combat mechanics, it really isn't, Blizzard have been copying/adapting other games mechanics etc for years, they are very good at it, and the results they achieve are often superior to the originals, it seems like SOE is in fact now trying that route for themselves, though whether they can improve over the originals remains to be seen, and given the current state of Landmark etc. i'd have to say that it's still very much a work in progress.
Interesting that you would think the smallest and most niche genre in gaming is popular. And no MOBA style combat is point and click like Diablo or Path of Exile. Which I don't mind for a top down view but for a 3rd person point or 1st person point of view I prefer WASD movement with Mouse look. With or without a reticule but prefer one with it. It is the most fluid, most action packed and most visceral combat a game can add. Tab target combat is just bad because it adds artificial limitations and clutters the users controls with needless mouse and keyboard clicks. Like holding RMB down to look, or using 2 types of later movement keys for strafe and turn. It's just a horrible design that needs to die because combat systems like Neverwinter, Tera and FPS's are infinitely better in every way possible.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Outside of the extremely poor animations Pantheon currently has it looks like it is going to be fun. They already have accumulating snow this early and Landmark doesnt even have weather yet with a much bigger team and budget. SOE never seemed to have a proper plan even with the blue print that they never really followed.
On the official boards there are some that have used a controller for Landmark and say it works well. I have yet to try but it doesnt surprise me to hear it as the PS4 IMO is their main target for LM and EQN.. Not PC. IMO.
I am just tired of having non stop action MMORPGs shoved down my throat as " Next Gen ".. Nothing Next Gen about them. They sacrifice so much RPG / DnD type features that you are left with a shell with shallow flashy combat. ESO is really the only one that I feel kept an RPG like feel to it..
They've followed the blueprint/road map fairly well for the last year, considering how development works. How "proper" it is depends on your personal view I guess.
Pantheon is obviously working with much less and while I haven't been following it since the KS ended, the current version looks like an attempt to clone EQ or a late 90s game. Could be the plan, but I'm not really impressed. Weather is cool and all, but I'm pretty sure if SOE wanted to, they could have it at this point as well. It is planned and even H1Z1 with the same engine has shown it off at the "alpha" stage. Nice and all, but I'd rather Pantheon and the H1Z1 team for that matter, work on player models and what not, before pretty snowflakes.
Still don't get the idea that they are designing for consoles. People play WoW, GW2, and various other games (FFXIV is cross platform) with controllers. Nothing new. If they were making LM/EQN FOR the PS4, not sure why they would be going for PC first. Beyond Smed saying it will be on console, the devs don't seem to care much at this point.
Also at a loss of what is missing when it comes to RPG elements. Beyond being stuck with one class or what not, all the typical features of an RPG seem present in EQN. Maybe its my view of what makes a "RPG" but I'm not seeing any major missing bullet points. Might not be cookie cutter like a lot of other games, but still there in some shape.
If by followed you mean removing certain features from the blueprint after not touching them at all or pushing certain ones back constantly. They have not followed the blue print. Looking at an end version that has been edited a million times means nothing. Combat ( PvE ) was supposed to have been in 6 months ago and we just now got it.. Following the blueprint? You are nuts.
Vendors , Achievements , Crafting Tools , Crafting Shapes , In game Coin for upkeep / trading and many others were supposed to have been in last year. Now who knows when they will be in the game now that they have moved most devs over the EQN. Instead of giving the players better tools to create their own shapes easier they just gave people clunky templates that are a headache.
Followed the blueprint? Pull your head out of the sand already. If I made a to-do list for today and crossed out everything and then added " scratch my head " which I did .. Did I really do the to-do list?
The pre alpha hype video in 2013 still shows a more advanced game than what they produced a year later.
If by followed you mean removing certain features from the blueprint after not touching them at all or pushing certain ones back constantly. They have not followed the blue print. Looking at an end version that has been edited a million times means nothing. Combat ( PvE ) was supposed to have been in 6 months ago and we just now got it.. Following the blueprint? You are nuts.
Here's one of the earlier versions of the Roadmap. While they were hopeful to get some of the big picture features in early, they obviously ended up spending a lot more time on the basics tools and what not which ended up pushing everything back. Not sure what they completely removed.
Which is why I'm glad they are doing it this way. They are really taking the time to get the foundation (world building) stuff done instead of jumping straight into adding all the pretty layers like AI, combat, mobs, etc. While not perfect, they've made a lot of progress with the tools and what players can do.
The Roadmap didn't really have too many specific dates or time frames. The Blueprint did however start to. For at least the last 6 months or so, they've been on pretty good pace. No clue why they even added "March" to the plan as they didn't seem to account for technical issues within the first two months, but it is what it is.
I do believe they've followed the plan, simply not as quickly as we or they might have hoped. Not as if they've been playing golf here in sunny San Diego instead of working though. They've kept us updated on what's happening and why.
Vendors , Achievements , Crafting Tools , Crafting Shapes , In game Coin for upkeep / trading and many others were supposed to have been in last year. Now who knows when they will be in the game now that they have moved most devs over the EQN. Instead of giving the players better tools to create their own shapes easier they just gave people clunky templates that are a headache.
Sounds like they've have another big update before too long that will add some of these in. Don't see anything currently in LM that could of been bumped to make space. I've never made a game, but their development seems fairly logical. When features are ready, I'm assuming they'll make their way into both games.
Followed the blueprint? Pull your head out of the sand already. If I made a to-do list for today and crossed out everything and then added " scratch my head " which I did .. Did I really do the to-do list?
They have been doing it, regardless if they say they'll add X today and it gets added next month, it still gets checked off. That is development. To assume that everything will magically work the first time is silly. Voxels seem to have been quite a bit more then they expected and pushed a lot of features back. Hopefully the end product will show all the extra time put into it.
The pre alpha hype video in 2013 still shows a more advanced game than what they produced a year later.
In what ways? Everything shown is in LM in some form today I believe. They simply spent some time making a pretty demo which led many to believe that EQN was right around the corner.
Would I have liked them to have put features in sooner? Of course, but I have no reason to rush them. I want a quality product, be it Landmark or more importantly EQN. I don't know of any other companies that have done the same type of development and had the same to show for this type of game. They are working with new engines and trying things never done before. While I'm not a blind fanboi that thinks they can't do any wrong, I'm still okay with development taking more time then expected. Now if they had said "LM will be finished and released on X date" and they missed it, I'd be a little grumpy, but they've been clear that this is a game in early development in uncharted territory.
As I said, I believe they've done fairly well considering everything that has happened and what they are working with. If you disagree, oh well. Neither one of us is going to change the speed of things or go back in time and make it happen differently. Both games will be ready when they are ready.
I personally don't understand why the choice of combat system either breaks or makes the game for certain people. I don't mind either, I can play both, but I have a preference. If a game has combat X instead of combat Y, I don't consider that alone gamebreaking. It can't be easy being a gamer, much less a MMORPG gamer, when a single system or mechanic decides whether or not you'll play the game. I honestly feel sorry for all of you with such a strict mindset.
As for the choice of a more active combat for LM and EQN, I personally approve of it. It looks very early, unfinished and unpolished right now, yes. However, I do definitely prefer a more action-oriented combat. Games such as TERA, WildStar and even to some degree GW2 comes to mind. Fun and engaging combat one of the few things I actually enjoy with these "new" MMORPG's. Now, before some of you come "Those game failed, look at the sub-count!" let me just say this - Neither of those games failed or succeeded solely because of their combat system, anyone who claims such a thing is delusional at best.
Edit: Also let me just mention this, the lack of a trinity-like system in some of these games (GW2) makes me want to kill myself. Now that is a system/mechanic, or better yet lack there of, that can break a game for me. So I guess I kind of understand people making it out to be such a big deal.
Secondly, given how early we are in development of LM and even more so with EQN, I'm actually going to give SOE the benefit of the doubt on this one. Right now the combat definitely leaves much to be desired, however, I'll wait before I can try it out in EQN beta. If it hasn't been changed, improved upon by then, by all means - cry doom & gloom as much as your heart desires.
Well said and I also hope for specific roles in EQN/Landmark combat. They have given this impression in the itemization of Landmark so far. A player can,set themselves up as a healer, tank, melee DPS, Ranged DPS and CC if you want to count the effects of the Ice Staff.
This bodes well moving forward and I can't wait until they release harder mobs that make itemizing for specific roles a priority.
All this talk about action combat replacing tab target combat. I just had a conversation with my eldest daughter who'd grown up playing Wizard101. I never really got into that game, but both my kids play it actively and love it. My daughter had recently switched to playing WoW a couple months prior to WoD and leveled up a hunter. Spent most of that time in PVP and LFR and was respectably geared by the time WoD dropped. She preceded to level to 100 and quit soon after. She's back to playing Wizard101.
I asked her why, Isn't the Turn Based Combat annoying? She said, it wasn't and that it was better than WoW's because there is a much deeper strategy that requires you to really think moves ahead, something WoW (and action combat) doesn't.
I'll never really enjoy that kind of combat, but it did make me think about it and I can see it being more cerebral.
That's a great story and I'm glad she found a game she enjoys. I think all of us have likes and dislikes regarding the speed, method, and depth of gameplay. We're all wired differently so it's no surprise there would be an equal array of preference, regardless of intelligence level, etc.
Your story also shows that it's not just young people or "kiddies" that prefer, or don't prefer, certain combat or gameplay types. The truth behind what people like to play in an MMO setting can be much more complex than that.
That's a great story and I'm glad she found a game she enjoys. I think all of us have likes and dislikes regarding the speed, method, and depth of gameplay. We're all wired differently so it's no surprise there would be an equal array of preference, regardless of intelligence level, etc.
Your story also shows that it's not just young people or "kiddies" that prefer, or don't prefer, certain combat or gameplay types. The truth behind what people like to play in an MMO setting can be much more complex than that.
As I said, it made me stop and think about it. There was something to be said for that.
On the other had, I have been saying for a while now, too much focus has been placed on MMORPG combat systems in recent years anyway. It's as if it's now the showcase for the game. Current MMORPGS are such that if you aren't fighting something, you aren't doing anything that means much. All the old MMOs had layers of gaming. Some layers revolved around crafting, some around political systems, some around markets and economies. And some around other ways to interact with other players.
All those meta-game layers have evaporated. Personally, I think current monetization methods are to blame for this shift, but that's for a different thread.
When these developers are asked "What is different about your game?" How do they respond? Their answer is to make combat more fun. WTF? Combat will NEVER be that kind of replacement. Something you do thousands of times seems impossible to remain fun. In fact, it doesn't take very long at all to become unconscious.
So, now we have these systems that untold amounts of money were spend on to showcase new systems that will become subconsciously ingrained in us within a day or 2.
And we wonder why players leave MMOs once their free time runs out.
All this talk about action combat replacing tab target combat. I just had a conversation with my eldest daughter who'd grown up playing Wizard101. I never really got into that game, but both my kids play it actively and love it. My daughter had recently switched to playing WoW a couple months prior to WoD and leveled up a hunter. Spent most of that time in PVP and LFR and was respectably geared by the time WoD dropped. She preceded to level to 100 and quit soon after. She's back to playing Wizard101.
I asked her why, Isn't the Turn Based Combat annoying? She said, it wasn't and that it was better than WoW's because there is a much deeper strategy that requires you to really think moves ahead, something WoW (and action combat) doesn't.
I'll never really enjoy that kind of combat, but it did make me think about it and I can see it being more cerebral.
nothing what you mentionned can be soley related to either one - its a matter of implementation...action combat can be very strategic or it can be button mashing...same goes for tab target - it can be good or it can be totally boring such as wow (sorry but wow is boring, most people watch tv while they play)
i like action combat because it gives me the feel that i have a) more control over my character and over the outcome of the fight and b) more impact - and thats what i like, i need to enjoy the animation, i need to feel the impact of my hits - if i dont get that im not gonna enjoy the combat... thats why i think dragon age inquisition does a pretty good job with the impact - at least for warrior classes...(even if its not an mmo but could be one the way the system is set up)
To me this combat is pretty much 100% proof that EQN is squarely aimed at the console market - SoE has no interest in appealing to EQ1/EQ2 players at all.
I've been shouting this from the rooftops since they first announced the 8 button combat that was laid out in two diamond action bars. I mean if that doesn't tell you that the game is designed first and foremost for a controller what does? Obviously the suits are wowed by all of the analysts that don't play games what so ever telling them that there is a massive untapped market for console MMO's.
They are just banking that all of us older saps will buy into it because of the EQ nostalgia we have for the true Everquest. Because the past few years have taught the large game companies that game shoppers are not very discerning when it comes to the games they buy, especially console gamers. Every Battlefield & call of duty game that releases they sell millions of pre-order copies before any gameplay is even viewable by the general public.
Sony is just simply betting on that same moronic nature to carry them on this title.
i dunno... i like that the system is laid out for a controller - much more comfy to play...
the future of pc gaming is in front of the tv imo...
and people who say 8 buttons cant be complex - i dont agree with that, some of the most strategic games ever do not have a lot of options / rules... i think the combat CAN be excelent - it just a matter of implementation...
im hearing good things about black desert online combat - maybe they head into the same direction...
I agree 100% that an MMO should be more than just the sum of its combat system, or any single system for that matter. The problem IMO is the production cost and logistics of either providing a variety of quality systems before release or adding systems in after the fact. The standard has been to do fewer things to a greater degree and combat will always be chief among these. Combat is,a good and necessary start but more is needed to keep people engaged long term.
That's where I think Landmark can shine, in giving players a pretty wide breadth of things to do. The mantra from the devs does seem to be creating open ended system for players to create with and in turn offer innumerable amount of things to do for everyone. It has a long way to go but so far the pieces are taking shape.
You mentioned something I hope they eventually add... some sort of player influence system, like the NPC Storybricks system, so a political systems could be added to the content creation toolkit of Landmark.
For EQN specifically the NPC factions system and how it melds wit the worlds overall narrative alone should keep people interested over time. As you said combat by itself can become "normal" quick but that depends on what you are using the combat for. In most of the current MMO offerings the world is static and that "been there, done that" feeling puts undo stress on the systems in place to keep you entertained. Each system should be quality but not expected to hold you by itself. The sum of the parts should, like a net I guess. Hopefully this will be the case with both EQN and Landmark. We'll see.
Looks like one of those shitty indie games like Mortal Online or DFUW. And what the hell is going on with that weird waist/torso rotation they do? It's like a perfect 90 degree turn. Looks god-awful...and physically impossible.
The controls and the UI in this game suck badly, those are two elements I just cannot forgive or get used to. I simply cannot play till they are majorly refined, regardless of what the content or elements are that exist.
This game is a SERIOUS case of getting the cart before the horse, SOE is so out of touch they can't even nail down the basic elements. How about stop grasping at straws and make a game that is enjoyable to play instead of a cumbersome, unintuitive nuisance.
Actually that is the best definition of Everquest Landmark, it's a cumbersome, unintuitive nuisance.
Yep, still in development. They've already done one pass on textures which came with the latest big release. I haven't seen the video in this OP for a while, since it's four months old, but I wouldn't be surprised if the animations have also been improved.
That said they still have work to do, which they would also admit. The main components are in though, even if they are bulky like the UI/reticle. The size and style can be changed and they've already said the UI would. I personally would like to see the reticle be more transparent and HUD bars less claustrophobic to start with. I am understanding what they are going for in keeping eyes up though and like it.
To me this combat is pretty much 100% proof that EQN is squarely aimed at the console market - SoE has no interest in appealing to EQ1/EQ2 players at all.
I've been shouting this from the rooftops since they first announced the 8 button combat that was laid out in two diamond action bars. I mean if that doesn't tell you that the game is designed first and foremost for a controller what does? Obviously the suits are wowed by all of the analysts that don't play games what so ever telling them that there is a massive untapped market for console MMO's.
They are just banking that all of us older saps will buy into it because of the EQ nostalgia we have for the true Everquest. Because the past few years have taught the large game companies that game shoppers are not very discerning when it comes to the games they buy, especially console gamers. Every Battlefield & call of duty game that releases they sell millions of pre-order copies before any gameplay is even viewable by the general public.
Sony is just simply betting on that same moronic nature to carry them on this title.
This logic doesn't work for me. EQ had 8 buttons and wasn't designed for consoles and apparently is the best game ever, despite so many leaving a few years in. Games with the typical massive number of skills on screen at once can be used with a controller. WoW, FFXIV, GW2, etc can be played with a controller, by design or not. Going with 8 and the overall EQN design does help to port it over, no doubt, but to say the console is driving the design isn't correct to me. While there are some limitations with a controller, looking at FFXIV, they don't have to be very huge. If the PC version is still a quality product, I have no issue. Especially if having a console version equates to more players, money, and the PC version profiting from this. The whole us vs them mentality (casual vs hardcore, pvp vs pve, console vs pc, action vs tab) is so silly. We should want companies to embrace as much as possible if it results in a better product. Doesn't mean that will happen with EQN, but it could.
All this talk about action combat replacing tab target combat. I just had a conversation with my eldest daughter who'd grown up playing Wizard101. I never really got into that game, but both my kids play it actively and love it. My daughter had recently switched to playing WoW a couple months prior to WoD and leveled up a hunter. Spent most of that time in PVP and LFR and was respectably geared by the time WoD dropped. She preceded to level to 100 and quit soon after. She's back to playing Wizard101.
I asked her why, Isn't the Turn Based Combat annoying? She said, it wasn't and that it was better than WoW's because there is a much deeper strategy that requires you to really think moves ahead, something WoW (and action combat) doesn't.
I'll never really enjoy that kind of combat, but it did make me think about it and I can see it being more cerebral.
Might be more tactical but it isn't more engaging, more fluid, more visceral and more realistic. For me and I realize it is my preference, just like your daughter has her own, is to have a Realistic engaging experience within my MMO. Tactics can only carry me so far and I am of the opinion that Solid Action Combat can be VERY tactful if designed properly. Whereas a Tab Target or Turn Based Game can never be more fluid, visceral or realistic. Which at the end of the day is why my preference is for action. Given 2 games of equal design quality, I'll always take the action game.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Comments
Interesting that you would think the smallest and most niche genre in gaming is popular. And no MOBA style combat is point and click like Diablo or Path of Exile. Which I don't mind for a top down view but for a 3rd person point or 1st person point of view I prefer WASD movement with Mouse look. With or without a reticule but prefer one with it. It is the most fluid, most action packed and most visceral combat a game can add. Tab target combat is just bad because it adds artificial limitations and clutters the users controls with needless mouse and keyboard clicks. Like holding RMB down to look, or using 2 types of later movement keys for strafe and turn. It's just a horrible design that needs to die because combat systems like Neverwinter, Tera and FPS's are infinitely better in every way possible.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
They've followed the blueprint/road map fairly well for the last year, considering how development works. How "proper" it is depends on your personal view I guess.
https://forums.station.sony.com/landmark/index.php?threads/the-new-improved-blueprint-updated-11-12-14.34413/
Pantheon is obviously working with much less and while I haven't been following it since the KS ended, the current version looks like an attempt to clone EQ or a late 90s game. Could be the plan, but I'm not really impressed. Weather is cool and all, but I'm pretty sure if SOE wanted to, they could have it at this point as well. It is planned and even H1Z1 with the same engine has shown it off at the "alpha" stage. Nice and all, but I'd rather Pantheon and the H1Z1 team for that matter, work on player models and what not, before pretty snowflakes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAf816DE14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlf57DaEcoc
Still don't get the idea that they are designing for consoles. People play WoW, GW2, and various other games (FFXIV is cross platform) with controllers. Nothing new. If they were making LM/EQN FOR the PS4, not sure why they would be going for PC first. Beyond Smed saying it will be on console, the devs don't seem to care much at this point.
Also at a loss of what is missing when it comes to RPG elements. Beyond being stuck with one class or what not, all the typical features of an RPG seem present in EQN. Maybe its my view of what makes a "RPG" but I'm not seeing any major missing bullet points. Might not be cookie cutter like a lot of other games, but still there in some shape.
If by followed you mean removing certain features from the blueprint after not touching them at all or pushing certain ones back constantly. They have not followed the blue print. Looking at an end version that has been edited a million times means nothing. Combat ( PvE ) was supposed to have been in 6 months ago and we just now got it.. Following the blueprint? You are nuts.
Vendors , Achievements , Crafting Tools , Crafting Shapes , In game Coin for upkeep / trading and many others were supposed to have been in last year. Now who knows when they will be in the game now that they have moved most devs over the EQN. Instead of giving the players better tools to create their own shapes easier they just gave people clunky templates that are a headache.
Followed the blueprint? Pull your head out of the sand already. If I made a to-do list for today and crossed out everything and then added " scratch my head " which I did .. Did I really do the to-do list?
The pre alpha hype video in 2013 still shows a more advanced game than what they produced a year later.
Would I have liked them to have put features in sooner? Of course, but I have no reason to rush them. I want a quality product, be it Landmark or more importantly EQN. I don't know of any other companies that have done the same type of development and had the same to show for this type of game. They are working with new engines and trying things never done before. While I'm not a blind fanboi that thinks they can't do any wrong, I'm still okay with development taking more time then expected. Now if they had said "LM will be finished and released on X date" and they missed it, I'd be a little grumpy, but they've been clear that this is a game in early development in uncharted territory.
As I said, I believe they've done fairly well considering everything that has happened and what they are working with. If you disagree, oh well. Neither one of us is going to change the speed of things or go back in time and make it happen differently. Both games will be ready when they are ready.
My hopes were on this game as a sadbox with great creation tool but ... if they don't rework combat animation completly then I'll pass this game .
I'm not shy about my preference I love beauteful animations like Black Dessert or GW2 .
I personally don't understand why the choice of combat system either breaks or makes the game for certain people. I don't mind either, I can play both, but I have a preference. If a game has combat X instead of combat Y, I don't consider that alone gamebreaking. It can't be easy being a gamer, much less a MMORPG gamer, when a single system or mechanic decides whether or not you'll play the game. I honestly feel sorry for all of you with such a strict mindset.
As for the choice of a more active combat for LM and EQN, I personally approve of it. It looks very early, unfinished and unpolished right now, yes. However, I do definitely prefer a more action-oriented combat. Games such as TERA, WildStar and even to some degree GW2 comes to mind. Fun and engaging combat one of the few things I actually enjoy with these "new" MMORPG's. Now, before some of you come "Those game failed, look at the sub-count!" let me just say this - Neither of those games failed or succeeded solely because of their combat system, anyone who claims such a thing is delusional at best.
Edit: Also let me just mention this, the lack of a trinity-like system in some of these games (GW2) makes me want to kill myself. Now that is a system/mechanic, or better yet lack there of, that can break a game for me. So I guess I kind of understand people making it out to be such a big deal.
Secondly, given how early we are in development of LM and even more so with EQN, I'm actually going to give SOE the benefit of the doubt on this one. Right now the combat definitely leaves much to be desired, however, I'll wait before I can try it out in EQN beta. If it hasn't been changed, improved upon by then, by all means - cry doom & gloom as much as your heart desires.
Tweet at me - Visit my website
Well said and I also hope for specific roles in EQN/Landmark combat. They have given this impression in the itemization of Landmark so far. A player can,set themselves up as a healer, tank, melee DPS, Ranged DPS and CC if you want to count the effects of the Ice Staff.
This bodes well moving forward and I can't wait until they release harder mobs that make itemizing for specific roles a priority.
All this talk about action combat replacing tab target combat. I just had a conversation with my eldest daughter who'd grown up playing Wizard101. I never really got into that game, but both my kids play it actively and love it. My daughter had recently switched to playing WoW a couple months prior to WoD and leveled up a hunter. Spent most of that time in PVP and LFR and was respectably geared by the time WoD dropped. She preceded to level to 100 and quit soon after. She's back to playing Wizard101.
I asked her why, Isn't the Turn Based Combat annoying? She said, it wasn't and that it was better than WoW's because there is a much deeper strategy that requires you to really think moves ahead, something WoW (and action combat) doesn't.
I'll never really enjoy that kind of combat, but it did make me think about it and I can see it being more cerebral.
omg. lol. that looks awful .
That's a great story and I'm glad she found a game she enjoys. I think all of us have likes and dislikes regarding the speed, method, and depth of gameplay. We're all wired differently so it's no surprise there would be an equal array of preference, regardless of intelligence level, etc.
Your story also shows that it's not just young people or "kiddies" that prefer, or don't prefer, certain combat or gameplay types. The truth behind what people like to play in an MMO setting can be much more complex than that.
As I said, it made me stop and think about it. There was something to be said for that.
On the other had, I have been saying for a while now, too much focus has been placed on MMORPG combat systems in recent years anyway. It's as if it's now the showcase for the game. Current MMORPGS are such that if you aren't fighting something, you aren't doing anything that means much. All the old MMOs had layers of gaming. Some layers revolved around crafting, some around political systems, some around markets and economies. And some around other ways to interact with other players.
All those meta-game layers have evaporated. Personally, I think current monetization methods are to blame for this shift, but that's for a different thread.
When these developers are asked "What is different about your game?" How do they respond? Their answer is to make combat more fun. WTF? Combat will NEVER be that kind of replacement. Something you do thousands of times seems impossible to remain fun. In fact, it doesn't take very long at all to become unconscious.
So, now we have these systems that untold amounts of money were spend on to showcase new systems that will become subconsciously ingrained in us within a day or 2.
And we wonder why players leave MMOs once their free time runs out.
nothing what you mentionned can be soley related to either one - its a matter of implementation...action combat can be very strategic or it can be button mashing...same goes for tab target - it can be good or it can be totally boring such as wow (sorry but wow is boring, most people watch tv while they play)
i like action combat because it gives me the feel that i have a) more control over my character and over the outcome of the fight and b) more impact - and thats what i like, i need to enjoy the animation, i need to feel the impact of my hits - if i dont get that im not gonna enjoy the combat... thats why i think dragon age inquisition does a pretty good job with the impact - at least for warrior classes...(even if its not an mmo but could be one the way the system is set up)
I've been shouting this from the rooftops since they first announced the 8 button combat that was laid out in two diamond action bars. I mean if that doesn't tell you that the game is designed first and foremost for a controller what does? Obviously the suits are wowed by all of the analysts that don't play games what so ever telling them that there is a massive untapped market for console MMO's.
They are just banking that all of us older saps will buy into it because of the EQ nostalgia we have for the true Everquest. Because the past few years have taught the large game companies that game shoppers are not very discerning when it comes to the games they buy, especially console gamers. Every Battlefield & call of duty game that releases they sell millions of pre-order copies before any gameplay is even viewable by the general public.
Sony is just simply betting on that same moronic nature to carry them on this title.
i dunno... i like that the system is laid out for a controller - much more comfy to play...
the future of pc gaming is in front of the tv imo...
and people who say 8 buttons cant be complex - i dont agree with that, some of the most strategic games ever do not have a lot of options / rules... i think the combat CAN be excelent - it just a matter of implementation...
im hearing good things about black desert online combat - maybe they head into the same direction...
I agree 100% that an MMO should be more than just the sum of its combat system, or any single system for that matter. The problem IMO is the production cost and logistics of either providing a variety of quality systems before release or adding systems in after the fact. The standard has been to do fewer things to a greater degree and combat will always be chief among these. Combat is,a good and necessary start but more is needed to keep people engaged long term.
That's where I think Landmark can shine, in giving players a pretty wide breadth of things to do. The mantra from the devs does seem to be creating open ended system for players to create with and in turn offer innumerable amount of things to do for everyone. It has a long way to go but so far the pieces are taking shape.
You mentioned something I hope they eventually add... some sort of player influence system, like the NPC Storybricks system, so a political systems could be added to the content creation toolkit of Landmark.
For EQN specifically the NPC factions system and how it melds wit the worlds overall narrative alone should keep people interested over time. As you said combat by itself can become "normal" quick but that depends on what you are using the combat for. In most of the current MMO offerings the world is static and that "been there, done that" feeling puts undo stress on the systems in place to keep you entertained. Each system should be quality but not expected to hold you by itself. The sum of the parts should, like a net I guess. Hopefully this will be the case with both EQN and Landmark. We'll see.
Good lord that looks horrible.
It's like some kid tried to recreate Halo in his basement.
There are $0.99 mobile games that have better combat, my God SoE. Shut your doors already before you further embarrass yourself.
the animations...jesus christ....
Looks like one of those shitty indie games like Mortal Online or DFUW. And what the hell is going on with that weird waist/torso rotation they do? It's like a perfect 90 degree turn. Looks god-awful...and physically impossible.
The controls and the UI in this game suck badly, those are two elements I just cannot forgive or get used to. I simply cannot play till they are majorly refined, regardless of what the content or elements are that exist.
This game is a SERIOUS case of getting the cart before the horse, SOE is so out of touch they can't even nail down the basic elements. How about stop grasping at straws and make a game that is enjoyable to play instead of a cumbersome, unintuitive nuisance.
Actually that is the best definition of Everquest Landmark, it's a cumbersome, unintuitive nuisance.
LOL, first time I see this.
lol, the skin reflecting like metal is so bad it is comical
LOL
When the character started falling through the ground I couldn't stop laughing.
That said they still have work to do, which they would also admit. The main components are in though, even if they are bulky like the UI/reticle. The size and style can be changed and they've already said the UI would. I personally would like to see the reticle be more transparent and HUD bars less claustrophobic to start with. I am understanding what they are going for in keeping eyes up though and like it.
Expect it to keep morphing.
This logic doesn't work for me. EQ had 8 buttons and wasn't designed for consoles and apparently is the best game ever, despite so many leaving a few years in. Games with the typical massive number of skills on screen at once can be used with a controller. WoW, FFXIV, GW2, etc can be played with a controller, by design or not. Going with 8 and the overall EQN design does help to port it over, no doubt, but to say the console is driving the design isn't correct to me. While there are some limitations with a controller, looking at FFXIV, they don't have to be very huge. If the PC version is still a quality product, I have no issue. Especially if having a console version equates to more players, money, and the PC version profiting from this. The whole us vs them mentality (casual vs hardcore, pvp vs pve, console vs pc, action vs tab) is so silly. We should want companies to embrace as much as possible if it results in a better product. Doesn't mean that will happen with EQN, but it could.
Might be more tactical but it isn't more engaging, more fluid, more visceral and more realistic. For me and I realize it is my preference, just like your daughter has her own, is to have a Realistic engaging experience within my MMO. Tactics can only carry me so far and I am of the opinion that Solid Action Combat can be VERY tactful if designed properly. Whereas a Tab Target or Turn Based Game can never be more fluid, visceral or realistic. Which at the end of the day is why my preference is for action. Given 2 games of equal design quality, I'll always take the action game.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!