The problem with that logic is that you're assuming that customers can only be either entirely correct every time, or entirely wrong. That is not how human beings work.
People were correct to tell ANet to hold off on the full release, and they didn't listen, which caused them to spend the next two years fixing a lot of it. And it's still not all fixed properly, and there's still stuff that hasn't come out (this expansion is finally releasing guild halls, for example, which have been promised to be out eventually since at least the beta days....and I'm pretty sure that Polymock is officially vaporware now).
But people's desire for an expansion is not based on anything "factual". It is rooted in people's distaste for the Living Story. People didn't actually want an expansion, they wanted what an expansion represented to them (in their minds): larger sums of content presented in larger "chunks", with a higher level of overall polish and a focus on things other than just PvE. All of these things could have been accomplished by the Living Story if they had the good sense to fix what they were doing wrong. They needed to channel more resources into WvW and PvP to accomplish their goals of more modes and maps. They needed to cut down the rate at which they cranked out said releases (they were better off with the monthly schedule as their content had more time for polishing back then, and it showed). And they needed to focus the Living Story on telling stories firmly rooted in GW1 lore, instead of trying to manufacture their own Joker in an age where such characters were more popular.
They chose to do none of those things, which made it harder for them to deliver the kind of quality and quantity that people wanted. That doesn't mean they should ditch the Living Story model or that they should rush to make an expansion just because people say they want one. It means they should fix what's broken first, because that will quell a lot of those complaints. Heck, case in point: Season 2's had a lot less "we want an expansion" complaints than Season 1 did.
As to the rest, I refer to my previous post. We have already seen some of the Maguuma Jungle from a promotional video ANet released. It is exactly as I described: three levels of terrain with a lot of open air in between, not three solid floors. So it's not nearly as much terrain as you're assuming. People will burn through maps like that faster than you expect them to. I know that because they already have in the past (new content in Dry Top, Silverwastes, and Zephyr Sanctum were usually blown through in a day, and then it became all about farming up pebbles to trade for shinies). And they've had the tech to create maps like that since the early days of the game. It's nothing new or spectacular.
Critickitten the voice of the people. I'm sure keeping a studio of 350 based only on the cash shop is the way to go. I bet you worked for free when you said you worked for a developing studio.
Season 2 and late season 1 (at 2 weeks schedule) was way better than the start of season 1 (at 1 month release).
Did you see any outposts or dynamic events?
I guess since we haven't seen it in the trailer must be Arenanet lying...
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If it was thrown up as a micro transaction on it's own.. I'd be pissed. Since it's coming with a shit ton of other content though, I don't care. The Expansion will be worth the price with or without the guild halls. If GW1 expansions are anything to go by, this is going to be one of the best MMO expansions we'll have ever seen.
It's one of those games where you simply NEED to get the expansion.. if you don't then you're not up to date. Which is fine.. expansions should be like that, DLC shouldn't.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I've spent soooo much time playing GW2, it has been by far the cheapest MMO I've spent time playing in the past 15 years. I really don't mind buying an expansion pack for a dose of more content. This is one of the very few MMO's I've played where they truly only place cosmetic, services, and non-essential items on the cash shops. Where as most other MMO's that are F2P hook you with power and must have items, or have "premium subscriptions" on top of cash shops, like SOE games.
Personally I'll be more than willing to spend the money on a GW2 expansion. They deserve it, so far they've given me more content without charging me extra than I've gotten from subscription games and some paid expansions in other MMO's.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
Critickitten the voice of the people. I'm sure keeping a studio of 350 based only on the cash shop is the way to go. I bet you worked for free when you said you worked for a developing studio.
Season 2 and late season 1 (at 2 weeks schedule) was way better than the start of season 1 (at 1 month release).
Did you see any outposts or dynamic events?
I guess since we haven't seen it in the trailer must be Arenanet lying...
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Most people claiming to be developers here on this forum think that reading "Java for Dummies" means you're a "veteran developer" ;o)
Yeah, actually, I did work as a developer (specifically, a writer) on a game. For free. For about seven years.
I'll give you both a moment to scrape up the shattered remnants of your mind, because I'm sure the idea of someone actually doing something they enjoy for free as a hobby is an impossible concept for you to comprehend.
And now I'm sure you're going to demand my credentials or some such nonsense, as if I have to "prove" my history to you. But I have nothing to prove to a couple of clowns on the internet, and I don't give so much as a single care if you believe me or not. I have no actual reason to lie about it, because it's not like it adds or detracts from the points I've made in any way, but if it puffs up your egos to make believe that I'm lying about it just to try and sound "superior", well, then you go right on ahead and keep believing that.
I'm not going to address this any further. All I'm going to say on this point is that it's awfully sad that you're now devolving into ad hominem and straw-manning now, purely because you're running out of counter points to what I'm saying. It had been such a good discussion up until now, but if this is all I can expect out of you from now on, I recommend you save us both the time and energy. If you're going to start attacking my person instead of my points, I have a suggestion: don't. Your posts up to this point have earned you some manner of respect and dignity from this side of the table, and it would be a damn shame if you went and ruined that because you're more interested in "winning" an internet argument than in being respectful.
I'd like to reiterate something I've said before: I have never seen a fanbase so overly and vehemently defensive of their game as the fans of GW2. They're not merely defensive of the game's design choices or its developers, they're defensive of everything. Any statement made against the game seems to be taken as if it were an insult. And it's this prevailing attitude that has driven many current and former players from the GW2 forums, which have devolved into a general cesspit that's not even worth reading for "lulz".
Case in point: Gaia has directly accused me of calling ANet "liars". But there's a problem with that claim....namely, I have never actually accused ANet of "lying". And now I fully expect that Gaia will spend his time looking back through my posts for that one out-of-context line where he thinks I might have said something similar to "ANet lied". But unfortunately, Gaia, you're not going to find it. I have outright stated, at least three separate times, that ANet did not explicitly say the words "Guild Halls will be free" at any point in the game's life cycle. I've made my opposition to the OP's exact phrasing quite clear. ANet did not "lie".
What I did say is that ANet very often has made statements that heavily implied the game's policies and given us looks into its future, only to reverse those stances later on, with devs insisting they "never said that". This has been a common tactic throughout the game's history whenever a group of players gets angry about something that a dev has said, feeling as though it contradicts prior statements. It is not strictly a "lie", however, it does feel dishonest and it's understandable why people would get the wrong idea. If, for example, you post several times about the evils of vertical progression, and then release a new system of vertical progression three months into the life of your game and announce that you plan to continue making more in the future, people might consider that a bit hypocritical and it's certainly reasonable for them to think so. And it's something that ANet has done time and time again. They haven't been "breaking promises" or "lying", no. But they've certainly changed their stances more than once on a vast array of different things over the course of the game, usually in defense against player backlash.
I suggest that if you intend to continue this discussion, you be mindful of what I've actually said, instead of trying to twist it into something I definitely have not said, purely because that stance is easier to attack. Straw-manning is not the sign of a strong case.
Also, Season 2 hasn't been significantly better. It's been better, certainly, but "significantly"? Not really. The writing is still mired in much of the same issues that it suffered from in Season 1, only this time there's not a central focal point like Scarlet to help you narrow down exactly what's wrong with it. Season 1's issues were easy to point out because virtually all of them centered around Scarlet, from the very start of her introduction all the way through to her eventual death. Season 2's issues are harder to spot due to the majority of the season not really having a clear "focus". Oh sure, Mordremoth is the Big Bad of the season and of the upcoming expansion, but you never see the dragon show up and get in your face like Scarlet did. But that doesn't mean that issues don't exist.
For example, the opening portions of Season 2 still had a number of additions designed purely to push players into regions that were suffering from a lack of players (some worked well, others did not). There were still a number of times where progression bugs and unclear directions made certain parts of the story hard (if not impossible) to clear. A good portion of Season 2 kept dwindling on Scarlet and how "brilliant" she was for this or that, long after everyone had gotten tired of Mrs. McCoy's self-insert character. But perhaps the most glaring issue that I can find is that most of the story builds itself upon a foundation of "the players don't know what happened between GW1 and GW2, so it's perfectly okay for us to make things up"....and the parts that don't instead seem to build themselves upon the foundation of "The twist is that Sylvari are actually Mordremoth minions! ....what do you mean you've known that since before the game's release? Well, too bad, ACT SURPRISED!". When the season is essentially built upon not-quite-retconned GW1 lore and a twist that pretty much everybody saw coming, it's fair to say that the writing simply has not improved to a point where I'd be giving it any sort of praise.
Certainly, you can argue that Season 2 has been better. It's made clear improvements over Season 1 in many areas. But you can't argue that it's been better to a point where it's comparable to some of the great lore in franchise history.
I'd be very suprised if the new GW2 exp. doesn't have some of that influence.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Yeah, actually, I did work as a developer (specifically, a writer) on a game. For free. For about seven years.
I'll give you both a moment to scrape up the shattered remnants of your mind, because I'm sure the idea of someone actually doing something they enjoy for free as a hobby is an impossible concept for you to comprehend.
I'd like to reiterate something I've said before: I have never seen a fanbase so overly and vehemently defensive of their game as the fans of GW2. They're not merely defensive of the game's design choices or its developers, they're defensive of everything. Any statement made against the game seems to be taken as if it were an insult. And it's this prevailing attitude that has driven many current and former players from the GW2 forums, which have devolved into a general cesspit that's not even worth reading for "lulz".
Case in point: Gaia has directly accused me of calling ANet "liars". But there's a problem with that claim....namely, I have never actually accused ANet of "lying". And now I fully expect that Gaia will spend his time looking back through my posts for that one out-of-context line where he thinks I might have said something similar to "ANet lied". But unfortunately, Gaia, you're not going to find it. I have outright stated, at least three separate times, that ANet did not explicitly say the words "Guild Halls will be free" at any point in the game's life cycle. I've made my opposition to the OP's exact phrasing quite clear. ANet did not "lie".
What I did say is that ANet very often has made statements that heavily implied the game's policies and given us looks into its future, only to reverse those stances later on, with devs insisting they "never said that". This has been a common tactic throughout the game's history whenever a group of players gets angry about something that a dev has said, feeling as though it contradicts prior statements. It is not strictly a "lie", however, it does feel dishonest and it's understandable why people would get the wrong idea. If, for example, you post several times about the evils of vertical progression, and then release a new system of vertical progression three months into the life of your game and announce that you plan to continue making more in the future, people might consider that a bit hypocritical and it's certainly reasonable for them to think so. And it's something that ANet has done time and time again. They haven't been "breaking promises" or "lying", no. But they've certainly changed their stances more than once on a vast array of different things over the course of the game, usually in defense against player backlash.
I suggest that if you intend to continue this discussion, you be mindful of what I've actually said, instead of trying to twist it into something I definitely have not said, purely because that stance is easier to attack. Straw-manning is not the sign of a strong case.
Also, Season 2 hasn't been significantly better. It's been better, certainly, but "significantly"? Not really. The writing is still mired in much of the same issues that it suffered from in Season 1, only this time there's not a central focal point like Scarlet to help you narrow down exactly what's wrong with it. Season 1's issues were easy to point out because virtually all of them centered around Scarlet, from the very start of her introduction all the way through to her eventual death. Season 2's issues are harder to spot due to the majority of the season not really having a clear "focus". Oh sure, Mordremoth is the Big Bad of the season and of the upcoming expansion, but you never see the dragon show up and get in your face like Scarlet did. But that doesn't mean that issues don't exist.
For example, the opening portions of Season 2 still had a number of additions designed purely to push players into regions that were suffering from a lack of players (some worked well, others did not). There were still a number of times where progression bugs and unclear directions made certain parts of the story hard (if not impossible) to clear. A good portion of Season 2 kept dwindling on Scarlet and how "brilliant" she was for this or that, long after everyone had gotten tired of Mrs. McCoy's self-insert character. But perhaps the most glaring issue that I can find is that most of the story builds itself upon a foundation of "the players don't know what happened between GW1 and GW2, so it's perfectly okay for us to make things up"....and the parts that don't instead seem to build themselves upon the foundation of "The twist is that Sylvari are actually Mordremoth minions! ....what do you mean you've known that since before the game's release? Well, too bad, ACT SURPRISED!". When the season is essentially built upon not-quite-retconned GW1 lore and a twist that pretty much everybody saw coming, it's fair to say that the writing simply has not improved to a point where I'd be giving it any sort of praise.
Certainly, you can argue that Season 2 has been better. It's made clear improvements over Season 1 in many areas. But you can't argue that it's been better to a point where it's comparable to some of the great lore in franchise history.
Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
It is just a playerbase that is quite good at making misinformed people look silly.
GW2 exists since 2007. In 8 years a lot change and that is why Arenanet changed their stances - which is perfectly normal.
In GW1 they had s stance that players could only add 3 heroes each to their party, So a solo player would be stuck with inferior henchmen compared to 2p+6 heroes or 1 player with 2 accounts and 6 heroes,
Some people were against this others were in favor. At a later time they changed their stance, imo, for the best.
Opinions. Everyone has one. I've noticed that bloggers that are revisiting GW2 seem to have a better impression of Living World Season 2. Of course for people that have their minds set even before GW2 was released, it will never be good enough.
So they made stuff up at the same time they already had hints in the game from day one. Gotcha.
Exactly what is the problem with GW1 storyline?
I've never found Guild Wars lore amazing to start with so I don't now what is the problem.
So in the end we have:
- Arenanet change stances with time; (thank goodness since this allows them to correct mistakes)
- In your opinion GW1 lore was better than GW2 lore;
- GW2 playerbase doesn't shut up and let me say what I want without reply.
Originally posted by CriticKitten
I'd love to be proven wrong because it would soothe some of my own anger towards the devs, but I'm not holding my breath. Better brace yourselves for the very real possibility that everything on that page will be trapped behind the expansion paywall.
No reason to get angry about that.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
It is just a playerbase that is quite good at making misinformed people look silly.
GW2 exists since 2007. In 8 years a lot change and that is why Arenanet changed their stances - which is perfectly normal.
In GW1 they had s stance that players could only add 3 heroes each to their party, So a solo player would be stuck with inferior henchmen compared to 2p+6 heroes or 1 player with 2 accounts and 6 heroes,
Some people were against this others were in favor. At a later time they changed their stance, imo, for the best.
Opinions. Everyone has one. I've noticed that bloggers that are revisiting GW2 seem to have a better impression of Living World Season 2. Of course for people that have their minds set even before GW2 was released, it will never be good enough.
So they made stuff up at the same time they already had hints in the game from day one. Gotcha.
Exactly what is the problem with GW1 storyline?
I've never found Guild Wars lore amazing to start with so I don't now what is the problem.
So in the end we have:
- Arenanet change stances with time; (thank goodness since this allows them to correct mistakes)
- In your opinion GW1 lore was better than GW2 lore;
- GW2 playerbase doesn't shut up and let me say what I want without reply.
Originally posted by CriticKitten
I'd love to be proven wrong because it would soothe some of my own anger towards the devs, but I'm not holding my breath. Better brace yourselves for the very real possibility that everything on that page will be trapped behind the expansion paywall.
Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
It is just a playerbase that is quite good at making misinformed people look silly.
GW2 exists since 2007. In 8 years a lot change and that is why Arenanet changed their stances - which is perfectly normal.
In GW1 they had s stance that players could only add 3 heroes each to their party, So a solo player would be stuck with inferior henchmen compared to 2p+6 heroes or 1 player with 2 accounts and 6 heroes,
Some people were against this others were in favor. At a later time they changed their stance, imo, for the best.
Opinions. Everyone has one. I've noticed that bloggers that are revisiting GW2 seem to have a better impression of Living World Season 2. Of course for people that have their minds set even before GW2 was released, it will never be good enough.
So they made stuff up at the same time they already had hints in the game from day one. Gotcha.
Exactly what is the problem with GW1 storyline?
I've never found Guild Wars lore amazing to start with so I don't now what is the problem.
So in the end we have:
- Arenanet change stances with time; (thank goodness since this allows them to correct mistakes)
- In your opinion GW1 lore was better than GW2 lore;
- GW2 playerbase doesn't shut up and let me say what I want without reply.
Originally posted by CriticKitten
I'd love to be proven wrong because it would soothe some of my own anger towards the devs, but I'm not holding my breath. Better brace yourselves for the very real possibility that everything on that page will be trapped behind the expansion paywall.
No reason to get angry about that.
Ad hominem is not a real argument. Try again.
Ad hominem requires me to attack you or some facet of you.
Examples
"Gaia_Hunter is a paid shill".
"What does Gaia_Hunter know about the world? He still believes in Santa!".
Since my post has no attacks to your person or facet of your person there is no ad hominem.
Unless you consider my first sentence an ad hominem, but ad hominem are acceptable when dealing with appeals to authority.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I'd be very suprised if the new GW2 exp. doesn't have some of that influence.
NCSoft basically said fuck you to Nexon. Nexon will probably end up selling their shares.
As the largest shareholder of 15%, Nexon has certain legally enforceable actions that NCSoft will have to obey.
And if Nexon does decide to 'dump' 15% shares, that is probably not something NCSoft can recover from in the next 5 (ish) years.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Ad hominem requires me to attack you or some facet of you.
Examples
"Gaia_Hunter is a paid shill".
"What does Gaia_Hunter know about the world? He still believes in Santa!".
Since my post has no attacks to your person or facet of your person there is no ad hominem.
Unless you consider my first sentence an ad hominem, but ad hominem are acceptable when dealing with appeals to authority.
This post says 'my post has no attacks' and then says 'except...'
So your post is an 'ad hominem' post that tries to say it isn't' and then says 'it is acceptable because REASONS'.
Also, this sentence makes no logical sense; Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
I volunteer at our local child medical center all the time. That doesn't mean I don't know how a business operates; used to be a Project Manager in the financial industry.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
It is just a playerbase that is quite good at making misinformed people look silly.
GW2 exists since 2007. In 8 years a lot change and that is why Arenanet changed their stances - which is perfectly normal.
In GW1 they had s stance that players could only add 3 heroes each to their party, So a solo player would be stuck with inferior henchmen compared to 2p+6 heroes or 1 player with 2 accounts and 6 heroes,
Some people were against this others were in favor. At a later time they changed their stance, imo, for the best.
Opinions. Everyone has one. I've noticed that bloggers that are revisiting GW2 seem to have a better impression of Living World Season 2. Of course for people that have their minds set even before GW2 was released, it will never be good enough.
So they made stuff up at the same time they already had hints in the game from day one. Gotcha.
Exactly what is the problem with GW1 storyline?
I've never found Guild Wars lore amazing to start with so I don't now what is the problem.
So in the end we have:
- Arenanet change stances with time; (thank goodness since this allows them to correct mistakes)
- In your opinion GW1 lore was better than GW2 lore;
- GW2 playerbase doesn't shut up and let me say what I want without reply.
Originally posted by CriticKitten
I'd love to be proven wrong because it would soothe some of my own anger towards the devs, but I'm not holding my breath. Better brace yourselves for the very real possibility that everything on that page will be trapped behind the expansion paywall.
No reason to get angry about that.
Ad hominem is not a real argument. Try again.
Ad hominem requires me to attack you or some facet of you.
Examples
"Gaia_Hunter is a paid shill".
"What does Gaia_Hunter know about the world? He still believes in Santa!".
Since my post has no attacks to your person or facet of your person there is no ad hominem.
Unless you consider my first sentence an ad hominem, but ad hominem are acceptable when dealing with appeals to authority.
All of those seem real to me...
[mod edit]
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I'd be very suprised if the new GW2 exp. doesn't have some of that influence.
NCSoft basically said fuck you to Nexon. Nexon will probably end up selling their shares.
As the largest shareholder of 15%, Nexon has certain legally enforceable actions that NCSoft will have to obey.
And if Nexon does decide to 'dump' 15% shares, that is probably not something NCSoft can recover from in the next 5 (ish) years.
Non shareholders like you and me also have "certain legally enforcable actions that NCSoft will have to obey". But nothing that actually affects anything in discussion.
Shares have absolutely no effect on GW2. Every NCSoft game will be exactly the same as it was day before. And will go on as planned. Results are what matter and a lot of people would gladly pick up NCSoft shares atm. Even Nexon itself wants em rofl
Ad hominem requires me to attack you or some facet of you.
Examples
"Gaia_Hunter is a paid shill".
"What does Gaia_Hunter know about the world? He still believes in Santa!".
Since my post has no attacks to your person or facet of your person there is no ad hominem.
Unless you consider my first sentence an ad hominem, but ad hominem are acceptable when dealing with appeals to authority.
This post says 'my post has no attacks' and then says 'except...'
So your post is an 'ad hominem' post that tries to say it isn't' and then says 'it is acceptable because REASONS'.
Also, this sentence makes no logical sense; Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
I volunteer at our local child medical center all the time. That doesn't mean I don't know how a business operates; used to be a Project Manager in the financial industry.
It doesn't say except.
It says "Unless you consider".
So no quotations please, especially ones that distort the message being conveyed.
Your example is the one that is illogical.
If you are claiming that you know how a business operates you claim that you used to be a project manager in the financial industry not that you volunteer in a medical centre.
In the case of Critickitten, he said he know how a developer studio operates because he volunteered in one for 7 years. The business in question is AAA game developing.
Business is a broad spectrum and while some of the same fundamentals apply, just because someone has experience in a sector doesn't mean he knows the first thing about business in a completely different sector.
Not only that it was described by Criticlkitten as a hobby.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Comments
Critickitten the voice of the people. I'm sure keeping a studio of 350 based only on the cash shop is the way to go. I bet you worked for free when you said you worked for a developing studio.
Season 2 and late season 1 (at 2 weeks schedule) was way better than the start of season 1 (at 1 month release).
Did you see any outposts or dynamic events?
I guess since we haven't seen it in the trailer must be Arenanet lying...
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If it was thrown up as a micro transaction on it's own.. I'd be pissed. Since it's coming with a shit ton of other content though, I don't care. The Expansion will be worth the price with or without the guild halls. If GW1 expansions are anything to go by, this is going to be one of the best MMO expansions we'll have ever seen.
It's one of those games where you simply NEED to get the expansion.. if you don't then you're not up to date. Which is fine.. expansions should be like that, DLC shouldn't.
I've spent soooo much time playing GW2, it has been by far the cheapest MMO I've spent time playing in the past 15 years. I really don't mind buying an expansion pack for a dose of more content. This is one of the very few MMO's I've played where they truly only place cosmetic, services, and non-essential items on the cash shops. Where as most other MMO's that are F2P hook you with power and must have items, or have "premium subscriptions" on top of cash shops, like SOE games.
Personally I'll be more than willing to spend the money on a GW2 expansion. They deserve it, so far they've given me more content without charging me extra than I've gotten from subscription games and some paid expansions in other MMO's.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO
Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
Yeah, actually, I did work as a developer (specifically, a writer) on a game. For free. For about seven years.
I'll give you both a moment to scrape up the shattered remnants of your mind, because I'm sure the idea of someone actually doing something they enjoy for free as a hobby is an impossible concept for you to comprehend.
And now I'm sure you're going to demand my credentials or some such nonsense, as if I have to "prove" my history to you. But I have nothing to prove to a couple of clowns on the internet, and I don't give so much as a single care if you believe me or not. I have no actual reason to lie about it, because it's not like it adds or detracts from the points I've made in any way, but if it puffs up your egos to make believe that I'm lying about it just to try and sound "superior", well, then you go right on ahead and keep believing that.
I'm not going to address this any further. All I'm going to say on this point is that it's awfully sad that you're now devolving into ad hominem and straw-manning now, purely because you're running out of counter points to what I'm saying. It had been such a good discussion up until now, but if this is all I can expect out of you from now on, I recommend you save us both the time and energy. If you're going to start attacking my person instead of my points, I have a suggestion: don't. Your posts up to this point have earned you some manner of respect and dignity from this side of the table, and it would be a damn shame if you went and ruined that because you're more interested in "winning" an internet argument than in being respectful.
I'd like to reiterate something I've said before: I have never seen a fanbase so overly and vehemently defensive of their game as the fans of GW2. They're not merely defensive of the game's design choices or its developers, they're defensive of everything. Any statement made against the game seems to be taken as if it were an insult. And it's this prevailing attitude that has driven many current and former players from the GW2 forums, which have devolved into a general cesspit that's not even worth reading for "lulz".
Case in point: Gaia has directly accused me of calling ANet "liars". But there's a problem with that claim....namely, I have never actually accused ANet of "lying". And now I fully expect that Gaia will spend his time looking back through my posts for that one out-of-context line where he thinks I might have said something similar to "ANet lied". But unfortunately, Gaia, you're not going to find it. I have outright stated, at least three separate times, that ANet did not explicitly say the words "Guild Halls will be free" at any point in the game's life cycle. I've made my opposition to the OP's exact phrasing quite clear. ANet did not "lie".
What I did say is that ANet very often has made statements that heavily implied the game's policies and given us looks into its future, only to reverse those stances later on, with devs insisting they "never said that". This has been a common tactic throughout the game's history whenever a group of players gets angry about something that a dev has said, feeling as though it contradicts prior statements. It is not strictly a "lie", however, it does feel dishonest and it's understandable why people would get the wrong idea. If, for example, you post several times about the evils of vertical progression, and then release a new system of vertical progression three months into the life of your game and announce that you plan to continue making more in the future, people might consider that a bit hypocritical and it's certainly reasonable for them to think so. And it's something that ANet has done time and time again. They haven't been "breaking promises" or "lying", no. But they've certainly changed their stances more than once on a vast array of different things over the course of the game, usually in defense against player backlash.
I suggest that if you intend to continue this discussion, you be mindful of what I've actually said, instead of trying to twist it into something I definitely have not said, purely because that stance is easier to attack. Straw-manning is not the sign of a strong case.
Also, Season 2 hasn't been significantly better. It's been better, certainly, but "significantly"? Not really. The writing is still mired in much of the same issues that it suffered from in Season 1, only this time there's not a central focal point like Scarlet to help you narrow down exactly what's wrong with it. Season 1's issues were easy to point out because virtually all of them centered around Scarlet, from the very start of her introduction all the way through to her eventual death. Season 2's issues are harder to spot due to the majority of the season not really having a clear "focus". Oh sure, Mordremoth is the Big Bad of the season and of the upcoming expansion, but you never see the dragon show up and get in your face like Scarlet did. But that doesn't mean that issues don't exist.
For example, the opening portions of Season 2 still had a number of additions designed purely to push players into regions that were suffering from a lack of players (some worked well, others did not). There were still a number of times where progression bugs and unclear directions made certain parts of the story hard (if not impossible) to clear. A good portion of Season 2 kept dwindling on Scarlet and how "brilliant" she was for this or that, long after everyone had gotten tired of Mrs. McCoy's self-insert character. But perhaps the most glaring issue that I can find is that most of the story builds itself upon a foundation of "the players don't know what happened between GW1 and GW2, so it's perfectly okay for us to make things up"....and the parts that don't instead seem to build themselves upon the foundation of "The twist is that Sylvari are actually Mordremoth minions! ....what do you mean you've known that since before the game's release? Well, too bad, ACT SURPRISED!". When the season is essentially built upon not-quite-retconned GW1 lore and a twist that pretty much everybody saw coming, it's fair to say that the writing simply has not improved to a point where I'd be giving it any sort of praise.
Certainly, you can argue that Season 2 has been better. It's made clear improvements over Season 1 in many areas. But you can't argue that it's been better to a point where it's comparable to some of the great lore in franchise history.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Nexon is in 'hostile takeover' mode on NCSoft.
I'd be very suprised if the new GW2 exp. doesn't have some of that influence.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
It is just a playerbase that is quite good at making misinformed people look silly.
GW2 exists since 2007. In 8 years a lot change and that is why Arenanet changed their stances - which is perfectly normal.
In GW1 they had s stance that players could only add 3 heroes each to their party, So a solo player would be stuck with inferior henchmen compared to 2p+6 heroes or 1 player with 2 accounts and 6 heroes,
Some people were against this others were in favor. At a later time they changed their stance, imo, for the best.
Opinions. Everyone has one. I've noticed that bloggers that are revisiting GW2 seem to have a better impression of Living World Season 2. Of course for people that have their minds set even before GW2 was released, it will never be good enough.
So they made stuff up at the same time they already had hints in the game from day one. Gotcha.
Exactly what is the problem with GW1 storyline?
I've never found Guild Wars lore amazing to start with so I don't now what is the problem.
So in the end we have:
- Arenanet change stances with time; (thank goodness since this allows them to correct mistakes)
- In your opinion GW1 lore was better than GW2 lore;
- GW2 playerbase doesn't shut up and let me say what I want without reply.
No reason to get angry about that.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
NCSoft basically said fuck you to Nexon. Nexon will probably end up selling their shares.
Only it doesn't work that way......
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
how does it work then? give us your great knowledge on business takeovers.
This is much ado about nothing
Ad hominem is not a real argument. Try again.
Post histories speak volumes.
As far as topic goes: Your imagination=/ promise or lie.
Ad hominem requires me to attack you or some facet of you.
Examples
"Gaia_Hunter is a paid shill".
"What does Gaia_Hunter know about the world? He still believes in Santa!".
Since my post has no attacks to your person or facet of your person there is no ad hominem.
Unless you consider my first sentence an ad hominem, but ad hominem are acceptable when dealing with appeals to authority.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
As the largest shareholder of 15%, Nexon has certain legally enforceable actions that NCSoft will have to obey.
And if Nexon does decide to 'dump' 15% shares, that is probably not something NCSoft can recover from in the next 5 (ish) years.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
This post says 'my post has no attacks' and then says 'except...'
So your post is an 'ad hominem' post that tries to say it isn't' and then says 'it is acceptable because REASONS'.
Also, this sentence makes no logical sense; Oh that explains very well why you have no concept of how business with budgets and deadlines work.
I volunteer at our local child medical center all the time. That doesn't mean I don't know how a business operates; used to be a Project Manager in the financial industry.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
All of those seem real to me...
[mod edit]
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Non shareholders like you and me also have "certain legally enforcable actions that NCSoft will have to obey". But nothing that actually affects anything in discussion.
Shares have absolutely no effect on GW2. Every NCSoft game will be exactly the same as it was day before. And will go on as planned. Results are what matter and a lot of people would gladly pick up NCSoft shares atm. Even Nexon itself wants em rofl
It doesn't say except.
It says "Unless you consider".
So no quotations please, especially ones that distort the message being conveyed.
Your example is the one that is illogical.
If you are claiming that you know how a business operates you claim that you used to be a project manager in the financial industry not that you volunteer in a medical centre.
In the case of Critickitten, he said he know how a developer studio operates because he volunteered in one for 7 years. The business in question is AAA game developing.
Business is a broad spectrum and while some of the same fundamentals apply, just because someone has experience in a sector doesn't mean he knows the first thing about business in a completely different sector.
Not only that it was described by Criticlkitten as a hobby.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders