As opposed to, kill, kill, kill, rest, kill, kill, kill, rest... and that's it.... We can all exaggerate and make things sound horrible, maybe that's what we should do from here on out.
Exactly.
That is EXACTLY what you are doing , yes ..You exaggerate and belittle those ..that Dream of a game not lackluster
Hmm..Do you really Think most of us longing for a game with some challenge and vits actually wants a game that is a replica of EverQuest ?
I certainly do not , but I do want a game that is free from all the "easies" and a game that let's me Think , and a game that may punish if my thoughts was not that good
Originally posted by Coman I am not sick of all the moaning, because I do not read it. I really fail to see what I should care what people discuss on a forum. It is not my private platform, but a place where everyone can discuss anything (the owners allow). You dislike what is being discussed? Then simply make you own thread with a topic you are interested in and discuss there with like minded people.
Well I have certainly created a topic on something I am interested in discussing. (this topic).
Originally posted by Wizardry
Maybe just perhaps the OP has been living under a rock?
The reason you get the same topics over and over is because the developers have been churning out the exact same game designs over and over and over.So what do you expect to be in threads,just make up stuff?
Here is 99% of the games that are FINISHED and how they are designed.....Enter game,run to npc with marker over hit's head.Do the quest,map and arrows show you exactly where to go ,no thinking needed.Get free xp for doing quest,DING,gain level,rinse and repeat.Now end game level,let's group and do instance grinds for gear,rinse and repeat.
You can hire a kid out of school to design games like that,takes little to no knowledge of anything.
Then we have the flip side of games ,early access,free to play,Kickstarters,ALL of them unfinished products asking for money.
So there you have it,the entire industry,does it sound positive?Does it sound like something we should be praising?Not to me it does not.
So what would the op like gamer's to discuss??Oh how was that second yellow marker quest you did?Oh wow it was great all i had to do was run from point a >B and it gave me a ton of xp.DING level 12 ...Congratulations !!.
I am pretty sure you can't hire a kid out of school to design games like that with little knowledge of anything. IF anything current MMOs have a lot more complex mechanics than oldschool MMOs.
What do you want to discuss about old school games? "Ohh how was your day farming a mob in one spot all day". "It was great bro, I barely used my brain". See it works both ways.
Again..you exaggerate , naturally there was HUGE limitations back then, and thankfully tecnology has advanced and has enormous potancial to make great MMO's, but unfortunatly the market is dead set on creating games for the Facebook crowd instead of games for real gamers..
Originally posted by Siug Complaining about complaining makes me to complain. No one forces you to read those threads really so problem solved.
That doesn't mean there is no point to making a thread like this. This thread complaining about people complaining is at least not done a billion times. It probably adds more value than all those 5 billion topics which are identical.
Originally posted by MisterZebub
I'd be very unsurprised to find that many of these threads are a manufactured attempt at word of mouth trend pushing.
I think that's why we've seen so many "FFA PVP Games Are The Devil" and "Brad McQuaid Is The Messiah" posts.
I wouldn't be suprised if you are right.
Originally posted by Howbadisbad
maybe someone should make a "good things we like in current MMOs" thread then
Yeah, maybe we should do that. And also make 10 of them to even out all the others.
Maybe just perhaps the OP has been living under a rock?
The reason you get the same topics over and over is because the developers have been churning out the exact same game designs over and over and over.So what do you expect to be in threads,just make up stuff?
Here is 99% of the games that are FINISHED and how they are designed.....Enter game,run to npc with marker over hit's head.Do the quest,map and arrows show you exactly where to go ,no thinking needed.Get free xp for doing quest,DING,gain level,rinse and repeat.Now end game level,let's group and do instance grinds for gear,rinse and repeat.
You can hire a kid out of school to design games like that,takes little to no knowledge of anything.
Then we have the flip side of games ,early access,free to play,Kickstarters,ALL of them unfinished products asking for money.
So there you have it,the entire industry,does it sound positive?Does it sound like something we should be praising?Not to me it does not.
So what would the op like gamer's to discuss??Oh how was that second yellow marker quest you did?Oh wow it was great all i had to do was run from point a >B and it gave me a ton of xp.DING level 12 ...Congratulations !!.
Deliberately ignoring all the nuance of games essentially ignores everything that makes them interesting.
Anyone can create ridiculous game summaries. "Do stuff, get rewarded if you do it right" summarizes just about every game ever. It also tells us absolutely nothing about whether the game is good or not. Your favorite game and your least favorite game both had that same summary.
So anyone attempting to summarize games like this is only telling us that they're unwilling to actually invest in these games and understand the nuances that set them apart.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I mostly just get upset with opinions that are stated as facts. "Combat is boring", "content is hard/easy", etc. The usual "I would play if F2P". And completely made up figures "Game probably only has 1000 subs".
I'm all for criticism, but it has to be base in reality, and not be asking for the core of the game to change. If you don't like core mechanics, you are not going to like that game, so leave it alone.
That's another point, just because a game isn't your particular cup of tea, that doesn't mean that it's a terrible game that nobody should play. I could make a write up for every game about the things I don't like about them, but I play the game that has the least negatives for me. I don't care if somebody else is playing another game, they clearly like things that I don't, and I don't feel the need to bash the game they play. Any argument I would make would only boil down to "You like things that I don't, therefore you are wrong, your game is bad, and you should feel bad"
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Originally posted by Claies People enjoying a game are too busy enjoying it to take time to stop and make mention of it. The people that make posts are bored people with nothing better to do then wonder what will make them not bored anymore.
So you mean those who say they enjoy new MMOs yet have time to post here aren't enjoy the game but just want to troll around ?
Remind me forum also one kind of MMO with classes like white knight , hater , troll , seeder ect ...
Why would I waste that time expressing how much I enjoy a current gen game only to be told that I don't know better, I'm an instant gratification nut, or I'm just simple minded?
Those type of comments happen no matter when the game was released. Players who say they like older games get told they didn't really enjoy the game, it's all nostalgia and they're living in the past.
No, they have time to post, but find it utterly fruitless, because there are trolls on the other side, too.
It's a forum, people will disagree with you. No reason not to give your opinion.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
It's a difficult problem as this is a game forum and this is probably THE place to "intelligently complain" about any game issue.
It does get tiring seeing the same stuff over and over again.
It's almost to the point where we should have one thread dedicated to "hey guys, am I alone in thinking this ...." and then all the subjects that the OP mentions should go under that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I mostly just get upset with opinions that are stated as facts.
There are no facts... just opinions. The more sensationalized the better. MMORPG.com is the National Enquirer of the gaming world. Take it seriously or don't... it's just entertainment.
Everyone has the right to express their opinion. Even you OP. People who want change help to bring it by voicing (typing in this case) their opinions and ideals. This site is where the MMORPG community voices these ideals and opinions. Without these what is it? Would their be any topics at all? You are moaning about others moaning. Can ya see how hypocritical you are being? On car sites people moan about the Hellcat or the new design of the Camaro. Here, they speak what is on their minds and I am thankful for it. Through us, the Devs can get knee jerk reactions to incoming trends so I hope this place does not change all that much. It can be annoying at times yes but what facet of life doesn't? I moan about PVP most of the time. *shrugs* But that is just my opinion. There is no right or wrong to it just as there is no right or wrong for those who disagree with me. Without such exchanges, ideas do not grow or prosper.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
I'm more amused than annoyed by it now. Specially because most of it doesn't make any sense or comes from pure nostalgia and rose colored glasses wearing.
There's that new promised heaven... what it's name again? Pantheon?
Let me take this bet... Even if Pantheon is the long awaited "old school" (lol) EQ with updated graphics, exactly the SAME people will find other things to whine about.
Some people feed on misery and drama... why do you think all those crappy reality TV shows have so much audience?
Developers don't give a shit about what complainers post HERE. Do you really think they have the time to read all the MMORPG community sites? Personally, when I really want to be heard by developers, I post on the official forums.
Here, it's just the pub. It's sometimes to have a good laugh at what kind of stupidities some can post, and other times to enjoy some great ideas others may have, and too rarely to get some tips about the game you're playing instead of only trolls bashing it.
Hey, you can think what you like, that's fine. And considering how many PVP games are being made today I do think they have the time. Cuz they ain't spending it developing anything with quality.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
I'm more amused than annoyed by it now. Specially because most of it doesn't make any sense or comes from pure nostalgia and rose colored glasses wearing.
There's that new promised heaven... what it's name again? Pantheon?
Let me take this bet... Even if Pantheon is the long awaited "old school" (lol) EQ with updated graphics, exactly the SAME people will find other things to whine about.
Some people feed on misery and drama... why do you think all those crappy reality TV shows have so much audience?
Maybe.
I do agree that there are people who will always complain because they are "all about the drama".
I'll also agree that if Pantheon is released there will be a contingent of player who will say "well, it's close but that's not it" and then proceed to complain. I also have a theory that some people also do this in their day to day lives, always wanting "perfect" but never close to achieving it. But that's another thing ...
As far as nostalgia/rose colored glasses, I think you have to look at the actual complaint. Because you are essentially stating that they are not remembering things clearly when in reality they very well might be.
I think there is a level of incredulity from some people who can't possibly imagine that players want corpse runs, long travel times, harsh death penalties, etc.
And because they can't imagine it they pull out a rather tired "it's rose colored glasses".
I can assure you, as a player who has had a character "walk" across the entire land of skyrim, twice, that many of these earlier game concepts are not only missed but sorely wanted. This isn't rose colored glasses but a desire for different game play elements.
Having said that, unless players in this demographic can be satisfied by indie projects they will never be satisfied because I highly doubt these game play elements are coming back in games that cost $200 million +.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Hey, you can think what you like, that's fine. And considering how many PVP games are being made today I do think they have the time. Cuz they ain't spending it developing anything with quality.
But why would they waste they time reading the hundreds of posts here, but also on all the other MMO sites, when they have their own forums? Definitely a total waste of time.
We're no longer in the 2000s, when devs were using fan sites as "official" forums (e.g. AC1 was using the IGN Vault Boards, RIP btw).
Getting unbiased ideas and opinions is never a waste of time. On their own sites mostly populated by fanboi's etc, you think they are going to get objectivity?
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Hey, you can think what you like, that's fine. And considering how many PVP games are being made today I do think they have the time. Cuz they ain't spending it developing anything with quality.
But why would they waste they time reading the hundreds of posts here, but also on all the other MMO sites, when they have their own forums? Definitely a total waste of time.
We're no longer in the 2000s, when devs were using fan sites as "official" forums (e.g. AC1 was using the IGN Vault Boards, RIP btw).
Getting unbiased ideas and opinions is never a waste of time. On their own sites mostly populated by fanboi's etc, you think they are going to get objectivity?
Unbiased...? Here...? xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I believe the problem is many of us would rather talk about old MMOs then play the new ones.
Most people won't accept that technology is becoming easier to users and the broader the audience the more things are made simple to allow more people the ability to play the games.
A lot has been cut out of games MMOs that made them more interesting. Things that don't seem to appeal to mass market people.
Then you have some people talking about how they would like a game more like x (oldschool) and the thread is invaded by people saying that was easy mode. Chill dude trinity is so easy : Dude travel is tedious, exploring is tedious, talking is tedious. The only thing not tedious is fast zerg combat. WoW dude amazing revelation.
It's true many of us are stuck in the past, but as pointed out ad nauseam the games are very different now. They are not better or worse, but they are quite a bit easier in everything aside from that small amount of raiding and PvP (which many of us don't care about).
I think a lot of use just enjoy talking about old games. It can even be fun at times to have arguments over and over I guess. It's like the pattern some people have pointed out that many people find fun. The mindless pattern that is repeated over and over again as it doesn't matter how good of a point each side may have at times. The other always believes themselves in the right.
I've also mentioned this before, but games are so easy now that you don't really need to talk to other people in order to figure out how to do things. There isn't much to talk about outside of raiding. A Neanderthal could probably solo World of Warcraft from 1 to 100 in it's current state.
I believe the problem is many of us would rather talk about old MMOs then play the new ones.
Most people won't accept that technology is becoming easier to users and the broader the audience the more things are made simple to allow more people the ability to play the games.
A lot has been cut out of games MMOs that made them more interesting. Things that don't seem to appeal to mass market people.
Then you have some people talking about how they would like a game more like x (oldschool) and the thread is invaded by people saying that was easy mode. Chill dude trinity is so easy : Dude travel is tedious, exploring is tedious, talking is tedious. The only thing not tedious is fast zerg combat. WoW dude amazing revelation.
It's true many of us are stuck in the past, but as pointed out ad nauseam the games are very different now. They are not better or worse, but they are quite a bit easier in everything aside from that small amount of raiding and PvP (which many of us don't care about).
I think a lot of use just enjoy talking about old games. It can even be fun at times to have arguments over and over I guess. It's like the pattern some people have pointed out that many people find fun. The mindless pattern that is repeated over and over again as it doesn't matter how good of a point each side may have at times. The other always believes themselves in the right.
I've also mentioned this before, but games are so easy now that you don't really need to talk to other people in order to figure out how to do things. There isn't much to talk about outside of raiding. A Neanderthal could probably solo World of Warcraft from 1 to 100 in it's current state.
Moaning and whining is not the problem. The problem is they think they are more intelligent and better than anyone else just because they enjoyed those old mechanics. Telling people they are dumb and are sheeps just because they enjoy what they enjoy. God forbid people enjoy different things from them. Also, you can't disagree with them. When you do they accuse you of denying them what they want. Hyprocrisy at it's best. They can disagree but when people disagree with them it's No No. Pretty comical really.
Originally posted by vandal5627 Moaning and whining is not the problem. The problem is they think they are more intelligent and better than anyone else just because they enjoyed those old mechanics. Telling people they are dumb and are sheeps just because they enjoy what they enjoy. God forbid people enjoy different things from them. Also, you can't disagree with them. When you do they accuse you of denying them what they want. Hyprocrisy at it's best. They can disagree but when people disagree with them it's No No. Pretty comical really.
No. I'm glad more people are coming to the camp I've been in for damn near 10 years now.
The MMORPG genre is in a dark age. But with publishers bailing on the genre, we might finally be coming out of it.
For those who disagree, well good for you, you have dozens upon dozens of WoW clones to entertain you. Most of them have collapsed, because people don't actually like them enough to play them for a month, but they're there. Keep supporting them!
For the rest of us, who were here for the birth of the genre, we've been dying for anything, and the last anything we got was Vanguard almost 8 years ago.
i'd rather listen to people complain about a sub par service or product they paid for than someone who thinks people are not entitled to have opinions or criticism on a product or service. but thats just me...
I sometimes get the idea that there's a very loud group on the forum that doesn't realize it themselves, but actually hates MMO's. I've mostly been a lurker all these years, but nowadays, all the negativity and trolling makes me not even want to lurk more than once every few months or so.
Originally posted by vandal5627 Moaning and whining is not the problem. The problem is they think they are more intelligent and better than anyone else just because they enjoyed those old mechanics. Telling people they are dumb and are sheeps just because they enjoy what they enjoy. God forbid people enjoy different things from them. Also, you can't disagree with them. When you do they accuse you of denying them what they want. Hyprocrisy at it's best. They can disagree but when people disagree with them it's No No. Pretty comical really.
Nailed it.
Yep. Whenever I see 'Real MMO', 'back when it was done right', 'when it was good', 'the True Way', etc, I know to be wary. I don't begrudge folks getting to play games they like. But sometimes it's an echo chamber effect where 100s think they are hearing many thousands.
If you want a game style that's out of fashion, you better be willing to support the developers so they can make a living. Otherwise, no dice. For all of my disdain for Star Citizen, the support it's gotten has put space games back on the map. Do the same thing for the old style, and you'll see more of them. Complaining? That's free to play.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I'm fine with it, the posts are being created because there is a need that isn't being filled. We should have two branches of MMOs by now, one for those wanting a "game" (with instances and fast travel, quest markers and such) and another for those wanting "virtual worlds". The split is clear and the consumers should be posting about it.
Sausage is a very delicious and versatile meat by-product. leftover pork and beef, all ground up with some suet and seasoned/spiced to perfection...yum a dumdum!
I have found on these forms that the more someone rants, the less they actually play. The biggest whiners openly admit they don't even play any mmorpgs. Like some kind of badge of honor because they used to play. These forms are all they have left. Screaming at anyone who will listen to their tale of how it used to be. So let em piss and moan and shake their fist at new MMOs. Let em feel like they know the true meaning and we are all sheep and blah blah blah. They literally got nothing else going on. Just pat them on the head, give em a cookie, and move on to the topics that actually matter.
Comments
That is EXACTLY what you are doing , yes ..You exaggerate and belittle those ..that Dream of a game not lackluster
Hmm..Do you really Think most of us longing for a game with some challenge and vits actually wants a game that is a replica of EverQuest ?
I certainly do not , but I do want a game that is free from all the "easies" and a game that let's me Think , and a game that may punish if my thoughts was not that good
Deliberately ignoring all the nuance of games essentially ignores everything that makes them interesting.
Anyone can create ridiculous game summaries. "Do stuff, get rewarded if you do it right" summarizes just about every game ever. It also tells us absolutely nothing about whether the game is good or not. Your favorite game and your least favorite game both had that same summary.
So anyone attempting to summarize games like this is only telling us that they're unwilling to actually invest in these games and understand the nuances that set them apart.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I mostly just get upset with opinions that are stated as facts. "Combat is boring", "content is hard/easy", etc. The usual "I would play if F2P". And completely made up figures "Game probably only has 1000 subs".
I'm all for criticism, but it has to be base in reality, and not be asking for the core of the game to change. If you don't like core mechanics, you are not going to like that game, so leave it alone.
That's another point, just because a game isn't your particular cup of tea, that doesn't mean that it's a terrible game that nobody should play. I could make a write up for every game about the things I don't like about them, but I play the game that has the least negatives for me. I don't care if somebody else is playing another game, they clearly like things that I don't, and I don't feel the need to bash the game they play. Any argument I would make would only boil down to "You like things that I don't, therefore you are wrong, your game is bad, and you should feel bad"
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Those type of comments happen no matter when the game was released. Players who say they like older games get told they didn't really enjoy the game, it's all nostalgia and they're living in the past.
It's a forum, people will disagree with you. No reason not to give your opinion.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
It's a difficult problem as this is a game forum and this is probably THE place to "intelligently complain" about any game issue.
It does get tiring seeing the same stuff over and over again.
It's almost to the point where we should have one thread dedicated to "hey guys, am I alone in thinking this ...." and then all the subjects that the OP mentions should go under that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There are no facts... just opinions. The more sensationalized the better. MMORPG.com is the National Enquirer of the gaming world. Take it seriously or don't... it's just entertainment.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Yeah, devs probably read their own forums and maybe reddit and that is it...
Only reddit because the format is easy to read/flip through and it already sorts based on how hot a topic is, and is more easily searchable.
Hey, you can think what you like, that's fine. And considering how many PVP games are being made today I do think they have the time. Cuz they ain't spending it developing anything with quality.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Maybe.
I do agree that there are people who will always complain because they are "all about the drama".
I'll also agree that if Pantheon is released there will be a contingent of player who will say "well, it's close but that's not it" and then proceed to complain. I also have a theory that some people also do this in their day to day lives, always wanting "perfect" but never close to achieving it. But that's another thing ...
As far as nostalgia/rose colored glasses, I think you have to look at the actual complaint. Because you are essentially stating that they are not remembering things clearly when in reality they very well might be.
I think there is a level of incredulity from some people who can't possibly imagine that players want corpse runs, long travel times, harsh death penalties, etc.
And because they can't imagine it they pull out a rather tired "it's rose colored glasses".
I can assure you, as a player who has had a character "walk" across the entire land of skyrim, twice, that many of these earlier game concepts are not only missed but sorely wanted. This isn't rose colored glasses but a desire for different game play elements.
Having said that, unless players in this demographic can be satisfied by indie projects they will never be satisfied because I highly doubt these game play elements are coming back in games that cost $200 million +.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Getting unbiased ideas and opinions is never a waste of time. On their own sites mostly populated by fanboi's etc, you think they are going to get objectivity?
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
People love to whine, it's human nature. :P
And it doesn't get any better with age either!
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Unbiased...? Here...? xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Well said
Nailed it.
No. I'm glad more people are coming to the camp I've been in for damn near 10 years now.
The MMORPG genre is in a dark age. But with publishers bailing on the genre, we might finally be coming out of it.
For those who disagree, well good for you, you have dozens upon dozens of WoW clones to entertain you. Most of them have collapsed, because people don't actually like them enough to play them for a month, but they're there. Keep supporting them!
For the rest of us, who were here for the birth of the genre, we've been dying for anything, and the last anything we got was Vanguard almost 8 years ago.
Yep. Whenever I see 'Real MMO', 'back when it was done right', 'when it was good', 'the True Way', etc, I know to be wary. I don't begrudge folks getting to play games they like. But sometimes it's an echo chamber effect where 100s think they are hearing many thousands.
If you want a game style that's out of fashion, you better be willing to support the developers so they can make a living. Otherwise, no dice. For all of my disdain for Star Citizen, the support it's gotten has put space games back on the map. Do the same thing for the old style, and you'll see more of them. Complaining? That's free to play.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I have found on these forms that the more someone rants, the less they actually play. The biggest whiners openly admit they don't even play any mmorpgs. Like some kind of badge of honor because they used to play. These forms are all they have left. Screaming at anyone who will listen to their tale of how it used to be. So let em piss and moan and shake their fist at new MMOs. Let em feel like they know the true meaning and we are all sheep and blah blah blah. They literally got nothing else going on. Just pat them on the head, give em a cookie, and move on to the topics that actually matter.
The fact that the OP is even an issue is a good sign.
ps. Pantheon is the last hope for mmorpgs.