When you are told the price upfront and exactly what you are getting - what is the problem?
Are companies not allowed to make a simple sale - because that's what this is - a product with a price - if you don't want it, don't buy it.
Too expensive for you - don't buy it.
Common sense.
Why do some folks think that for how much businesses decide to sell their product is any of their business?
If star citizen sells multi 1000 dollar ships - its their business. When game companies sell founder packs - again their business.
buy or don't buy, it ends there.
And it is our right to complain about it and post our complaint and try and discourage others from falling for it as well. I still say video game publishers are the exact same thing as crack dealers. FACT that video games are designed to affect the brain same way narcotics do. Gamers are addicts, most of us are addicted to those endorphins and buying more and more on cash shops, more and more new games, it is all addictive behavior and what is worse is the game publishers know it, and use it.
You are totally free not to purchase a founders pack since no one is forcing you to do so (as was the case with ArcheAge). Every developer does this with preorders, founders packs, starter packs, ect. this is nothing new in the industry. Wait until launch if you don't want to pay, because surprise it is that easy.
You mean NOW every developer is doing it,at one time that would be scoffed at and never accepted.
I said this would happen to gaming a long time ago when the push began to cash shops.People were like well it's ok if only fluff,then year after year it get's worse.Now it is so bad lame developers are basically not selling founders they are simply selling YEAR subscriptions up front before a game even comes out.
Now it is not the case with Devilion but usually devs are releasing unfinished products as well.You ever notice they always have the cash shop fully automated/customized long before the game is finished?
When the priority of game developers /publishers is money first you know the game will suffer but yes sadly tons of gamer's willing to spend money foolishly for all kinds of crap gaming.
What really rolls my eyes is that 99% of these games all look like cheap Asian freeware,the type of games forum users used to scoff at now they are buying them up like hotcakes,what ever happened to gamer's? I really don't know maybe too much TV fried their brains.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
As I see it, this is just optimizing monetization in a saturated market.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
You are totally free not to purchase a founders pack since no one is forcing you to do so (as was the case with ArcheAge). Every developer does this with preorders, founders packs, starter packs, ect. this is nothing new in the industry. Wait until launch if you don't want to pay, because surprise it is that easy.
You should look up "Founder" in the dictionary. Its used by games that are new are developed by company's themselfs. Founder as in you where there in the begining/the fist. That totaly makes no sense in this game. Its already out for 2 years. They could have done that with Rift Trove and Defiance, not with this game.
And founders pack are new in the industry. Got no clue where you have been the last 20 years.
Back in the day they where called beta, and you was honored to get invited to it. You where required to "test" the game and report problems bugs with the game. Some even asked for a resume what else you beta tested.
Nowdays they bring out a pile of crap like its new, let you BUY your way into a "BETA" And dont realy care what you do or dont do.
I have beta tested about every major game that's out there and some that are dead. Word of warcraft, lineage 1 and 2, Tabularaza, Stargate worlds, Lord of the rings online, warhammer, Age of Conan, Neocron.
Never pay'd for that, it IS new from the last few years, and its just a way of ripping you off. Preorder and Starterpacks them are old.
(hmz forum is getting better i see i can use spacebar :P )
Yeah please feel free to tell me this is the very first company, or very first game to ever have a founders pack or pre-purchase for benefits. There are TONS of founders packs available, and I honestly don't think it matters for crap if the game is developed by the publisher, or being imported. It is still new to our region, and why would a company not use that as a selling point to the western audience? While I do not agree that founder packs are a good thing, it's not even an argument that these are becoming the common trend. Of course this hasn't happened the past 20 years of MMOs, but it is what is on the up and coming to become the standard. Of course a founder's pack is not the only way to get into beta for games like this just to let you know...
Trying to get as much money now from the founder packs because they know the game is gonna suck. Trion is becoming a very bad company cash grabbing money mongers. They are getting games from overseas now that fail and re releasing them as new here in the states and charging $50.00 to $150.00 for a F2P game with a cash shop. Make your own games Trion and quit being lazy trying to turn around failing games in America..
Boooohooo!
Quit being lazy and understand it's optional feature.
Yes, many of us are perplex by their decision, but it doesn't stop us from trying or playing any of these games.
How much time and money are YOU willing to invest in any game? Pick your poison!
Trying to get as much money now from the founder packs because they know the game is gonna suck. Trion is becoming a very bad company cash grabbing money mongers. They are getting games from overseas now that fail and re releasing them as new here in the states and charging $50.00 to $150.00 for a F2P game with a cash shop. Make your own games Trion and quit being lazy trying to turn around failing games in America..
Boooohooo!
Quit being lazy and understand it's optional feature.
Yes, many of us are perplex by their decision, but it doesn't stop us from trying or playing any of these games.
How much time and money are YOU willing to invest in any game? Pick your poison!
Exactly, and they call it founders packs because there is Risk involved. They risk publishing the game, and you risk paying into it before release. I've been burned on actual released games that I spent $60 bucks and played a few times. Risk in everything in life.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
When you are told the price upfront and exactly what you are getting - what is the problem?
Are companies not allowed to make a simple sale - because that's what this is - a product with a price - if you don't want it, don't buy it.
Too expensive for you - don't buy it.
Common sense.
Why do some folks think that for how much businesses decide to sell their product is any of their business?
If star citizen sells multi 1000 dollar ships - its their business. When game companies sell founder packs - again their business.
buy or don't buy, it ends there.
And it is our right to complain about it and post our complaint and try and discourage others from falling for it as well. I still say video game publishers are the exact same thing as crack dealers. FACT that video games are designed to affect the brain same way narcotics do. Gamers are addicts, most of us are addicted to those endorphins and buying more and more on cash shops, more and more new games, it is all addictive behavior and what is worse is the game publishers know it, and use it.
You can tell other people your opinion but complaining over a game thats
not even out to play in NA, if you payed money for this game for sure
complain all you want that your right, is like me complaining that mmo in general making me pay for there expansion to play there game pass a gate as when
they have a sub fee or cash shop make them more of enough money with out needed a expansion or p2w cash shop there just greedy same thing in general in all mmo or games.
But company of all type prey for gamers to be addicted to there game is how to make people say longer with them for a very long time.
Trying to get as much money now from the founder packs because they know the game is gonna suck. Trion is becoming a very bad company cash grabbing money mongers. They are getting games from overseas now that fail and re releasing them as new here in the states and charging $50.00 to $150.00 for a F2P game with a cash shop. Make your own games Trion and quit being lazy trying to turn around failing games in America..
Boooohooo!
Quit being lazy and understand it's optional feature.
Yes, many of us are perplex by their decision, but it doesn't stop us from trying or playing any of these games.
How much time and money are YOU willing to invest in any game? Pick your poison!
Exactly, and they call it founders packs because there is Risk involved. They risk publishing the game, and you risk paying into it before release. I've been burned on actual released games that I spent $60 bucks and played a few times. Risk in everything in life.
Hardly a risk, considering many of these games eventually have an Open Beta!
My favorite are the folks who actually get into close and open beta then purchase the game, come 3-6mons demand a refund!
At least Archeage had some promise before Trion ruined it with their greedy bait and switch business model. This game looks so boiler plate it doesn't even look worth the download. Trion just continues to cash grab off of 3rd rate games made by other studios. They are bottom feeder scam artists. I would never touch a Trion game after the disaster that was Archeage. They can take all of those over priced founders packs and shove it. Blade and soul founder packs were cheaper than that and that game has at least a decent track record. Trion is just trying to shovel more garbage on to the pile of junk they already produce over there.
I remember during the early stages of Rift, i though that Trion was a great company, but as soon as the game went F2P everything just changed. There is something Evil about F2P model that turns great companies like Trion and Turbine in to Money-above-Reason-and-Fun. Archeage wasn't a bad game until Trion introduced Trees in to the cash shop, that made so many players quit. I still remember the video of the Oran'Thul leader burning Trions shirt, after that update.
When you are told the price upfront and exactly what you are getting - what is the problem?
Are companies not allowed to make a simple sale - because that's what this is - a product with a price - if you don't want it, don't buy it.
Too expensive for you - don't buy it.
Common sense.
Why do some folks think that for how much businesses decide to sell their product is any of their business?
If star citizen sells multi 1000 dollar ships - its their business. When game companies sell founder packs - again their business.
buy or don't buy, it ends there.
It is always nice to have kind players to warn others about scamming attempts. Someone has to protect the innocent. They are heroes!
Uhhhmmn, what scamming attempt? What part of the deal exactly would you qualify as scamming? No really, do tell. And yes, we need to warn people, those stupid, stupid people that do not know what to do with their own money..... /sarcasm off
Let me flip this around for arguments sake. Trion are heroes for giving the people more options, because that is what these packs are, more options for those willing to spend money. You do not belong to that group? Well that is fine, but many people are and you disqualified them all and think they are so stupid that they should be warned. The arrogance around hear speaks volumes, there is no authority here, from neither side. Trion can do whatever they want, agree or not but calling it scamming borders on the ridiculous.
The game looks like crap by the way and I would not touch it with a ten foot pole but I trust people enough for them to decide for themselves what to do.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You won't be ripped off if you don't buy. You won't be ripped off if you only buy 50$ founders pack, which is basically can be seen as preorder of the game for early access. Spend anymore than that and that is your fault. Well my honest opinion is, spending money to buy alpha/beta access is bullshit, no matter how much i love Trion i will not support this.
450 credits(cash shop currency) will be 5$ Each character slot will be at least 10$ Each inventory row upgrade will be at least 10$ 1 month patron will be 14.99$
So the items in 50$ pack total cost when game goes live :-
2500 credits = 20$(added discount value for larger purchase) 1 month patron = 14.99$ 2 character slot extra =20$ 2 extra row inventory =20$
So far the pack pack is a great value for money. But again, they are selling beta access with the pack, they need to drop it.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
When you are told the price upfront and exactly what you are getting - what is the problem?
Are companies not allowed to make a simple sale - because that's what this is - a product with a price - if you don't want it, don't buy it.
Too expensive for you - don't buy it.
Common sense.
Why do some folks think that for how much businesses decide to sell their product is any of their business?
If star citizen sells multi 1000 dollar ships - its their business. When game companies sell founder packs - again their business.
buy or don't buy, it ends there.
It is always nice to have kind players to warn others about scamming attempts. Someone has to protect the innocent. They are heroes!
Uhhhmmn, what scamming attempt? What part of the deal exactly would you qualify as scamming? No really, do tell. And yes, we need to warn people, those stupid, stupid people that do not know what to do with their own money..... /sarcasm off
Let me flip this around for arguments sake. Trion are heroes for giving the people more options, because that is what these packs are, more options for those willing to spend money. You do not belong to that group? Well that is fine, but many people are and you disqualified them all and think they are so stupid that they should be warned. The arrogance around hear speaks volumes, there is no authority here, from neither side. Trion can do whatever they want, agree or not but calling it scamming borders on the ridiculous.
The game looks like crap by the way and I would not touch it with a ten foot pole but I trust people enough for them to decide for themselves what to do.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
All of it is a scam. ALL OF IT! I just got used to get scammed out of my money, so i might not see it sometimes, because it's a small amount. That's how scams work. There are currently no rules on how much money a company can charge, that's why you see ridiculous prices like in this game. Star Citizen is a more colorful example of a scamming company. They will sell you a second-hand products for a 3-4 times the price. It's horrible. You got to always watch out.
If i look back at my last 10 years of MMO games, i can honestly say i got scammed out of at least a couple of thousands dollars. I was an idiot back then, and i feel like i still am an idiot, a REAL BAKA!
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Here's a clue. If your cost (their price) doesn't provide you with sufficient benefits (their product and your emotional attachment to it) then don't buy it. You won't get 'ripped off' doing that. Yeah, I know it requires you to do some actual thinking. That's life.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
The real problem comes in when you buy a founder's pack for a game, and then when the game comes out, it is completely different. Or the founder's pack is in the cash shop for cheap after release. Or you buy a lifetime sub, and in 6 months it goes F2P.
I don't think many people will be dumb enough to buy another "Founder" pack from Trion. Archeage was a disaster, no one can deny that. They had the chance to run a really great game and they ruined it. They were greedy and I hope Trion fails with this one again. CD Projekt Red has the right idea of how to charge people for a product. I know The Witcher isn't an MMORPG, but look at how many they have sold and how much good will they have garnered. It's all about caring for your players, not gouging people as much as possible.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Realizing that your emotional attachment (OMG! it's a Founder Pack!) does not match your financial commitment ( it costs too much) is a good thing. It means you are learning, although reluctantly, to be a good consumer.
I would love to buy a flat crank 2016 Ford Mustang GT350 but my wallet says I might be able to afford something a tenth of it's price.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Comments
I said this would happen to gaming a long time ago when the push began to cash shops.People were like well it's ok if only fluff,then year after year it get's worse.Now it is so bad lame developers are basically not selling founders they are simply selling YEAR subscriptions up front before a game even comes out.
Now it is not the case with Devilion but usually devs are releasing unfinished products as well.You ever notice they always have the cash shop fully automated/customized long before the game is finished?
When the priority of game developers /publishers is money first you know the game will suffer but yes sadly tons of gamer's willing to spend money foolishly for all kinds of crap gaming.
What really rolls my eyes is that 99% of these games all look like cheap Asian freeware,the type of games forum users used to scoff at now they are buying them up like hotcakes,what ever happened to gamer's? I really don't know maybe too much TV fried their brains.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Boooohooo!
Quit being lazy and understand it's optional feature.
Yes, many of us are perplex by their decision, but it doesn't stop us from trying or playing any of these games.
How much time and money are YOU willing to invest in any game? Pick your poison!
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
But company of all type prey for gamers to be addicted to there game is how to make people say longer with them for a very long time.
My favorite are the folks who actually get into close and open beta then purchase the game, come 3-6mons demand a refund!
Archeage wasn't a bad game until Trion introduced Trees in to the cash shop, that made so many players quit. I still remember the video of the Oran'Thul leader burning Trions shirt, after that update.
Let me flip this around for arguments sake. Trion are heroes for giving the people more options, because that is what these packs are, more options for those willing to spend money. You do not belong to that group? Well that is fine, but many people are and you disqualified them all and think they are so stupid that they should be warned. The arrogance around hear speaks volumes, there is no authority here, from neither side. Trion can do whatever they want, agree or not but calling it scamming borders on the ridiculous.
The game looks like crap by the way and I would not touch it with a ten foot pole but I trust people enough for them to decide for themselves what to do.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
450 credits(cash shop currency) will be 5$
Each character slot will be at least 10$
Each inventory row upgrade will be at least 10$
1 month patron will be 14.99$
So the items in 50$ pack total cost when game goes live :-
2500 credits = 20$(added discount value for larger purchase)
1 month patron = 14.99$
2 character slot extra =20$
2 extra row inventory =20$
So far the pack pack is a great value for money. But again, they are selling beta access with the pack, they need to drop it.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
There are currently no rules on how much money a company can charge, that's why you see ridiculous prices like in this game. Star Citizen is a more colorful example of a scamming company. They will sell you a second-hand products for a 3-4 times the price. It's horrible. You got to always watch out.
If i look back at my last 10 years of MMO games, i can honestly say i got scammed out of at least a couple of thousands dollars. I was an idiot back then, and i feel like i still am an idiot, a REAL BAKA!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Tried the founders pack thing once, won't bother trying it again.
Personally I'll take a pass.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
I would love to buy a flat crank 2016 Ford Mustang GT350 but my wallet says I might be able to afford something a tenth of it's price.