All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
maybe not...but what took you years took him minutes...HA HA you are poor and he did what you did but faster...winner.
As was told to me on another thread...server firsts is winning...does someone else have a maxed out charcters...if not...WINNER.
No MMO's have "Winners", but they do have "winning"...
It really doesn't bother me if someone wants to spend thousands of dollars on a character to bypass skill training time. I don't consider that P2W since P2W implies that he's going to "win" at whatever he does in EVE, which is absolutely not the case.
That's an extremely literal definition of P2W and not one that pretty much anybody recognizes.
P2W is really "Pay to have an advantage" Everyone differs as to how much of an advantage constitutes "winning", but thats the reality of it.
And i'm sorry, but you're just being intellectually dishonest if you're trying to suggest someone with maxed out skills won't win against an equally (player) skilled person with less SP.
Yes, if you gave lance armstrong a heavy piece of shit bike and had him race against an overweight guy with a 50k super light race bike, lance armstrong will win, handily. That's not really saying much. But if you had 2 copies of lance armstrong and one on shitty bike other on super awesome bike, guess who is gonna win spectacularly.
It's not being intellectually dishonest to say a skilled player won't lose to a week old character in a Catalyst. It happens all the time. You are never safe in EVE no matter how much you pay for an advantage.
Bet he has a much better chance than any other character just made the same day as him....
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
I dont know, and dont care. If some dude wants to piss away all his money on some pixels..... good for him.
@simsalabim77 ;bound to be better than the other persons starter frig....he paid $28K for a character doubt he will fly a trashcan.
Sure, a 1 day old character with zero resources isn't going to be able to find success against a person who paid $28,000 for a character and ship, but a swarm of week old characters would. So much for that $28,000 advantage.
If you do the math then. Well I don't feel like doing the math but you can only use like 5 years worth of skills on any given ship at one time. So yes he can fly anything but not better then any other 5 year old character. Because that 5 year old character is flying ships with everything he is using maxed. Basically a 5 year old character can fly 2-4 ship types with all max skills. This p2w guy cannot fly those ships better but equal to a 5 year old character. The only difference is the p2w guy can do it all on one character and other people use 5 characters or simply limit their options.
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
I dont know, and dont care. If some dude wants to piss away all his money on some pixels..... good for him. Shit people have spent thousands on star citizen and thats for nothing but jpegs at the moment!
It is not whether you care or not...it is whether it is paying for an advantage over someone that does not put in the cash or not. If it is...then that is P2W. You would have to compare two brand new characters or two vets. Does one now have an advantage over the other due to cash?
everything he bought was bought with ISK. Very doable by anyone who specializes in ripping off corporations. So the guy trained all his skills to max? He can do more things now. over 70% of those skills dont even pertain to combat. Its really hilarious reading the comments from scrubs that have no idea what goes on in New Eden. All you can do is hear stories and try to compare them to your WoW-paradigm models.
Yeap.. the game is total P2W... the average pvp roam usually costs everyone involved about 20-60$ of destroyed equipment. Totally P2W when all you know is what people tell you about PLEX-cash trade values.
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
I dont know, and dont care. If some dude wants to piss away all his money on some pixels..... good for him. Shit people have spent thousands on star citizen and thats for nothing but jpegs at the moment!
It is not whether you care or not...it is whether it is paying for an advantage over someone that does not put in the cash or not. If it is...then that is P2W. You would have to compare two brand new characters or two vets. Does one now have an advantage over the other due to cash?
Would he have an advantage over a character that was trained up over the years vs his freshly skilled up 2 day old toon? Nope
Stop trying to compare a 2 day old toon with 400,000sp to a two day old toon with millions of skill points. its just a dumb argument period. You want to compare a 2 day old character with 100+millions of skill points, then compare it to another 100+plus toon and that player.
100+mil 2 day old toon in the hand of a newb vs 100+mil sp toon and its owner, who has played that character from scratch and has pvp skills.... 2 day old leveled up dude gets owned.
100+mil 2 day old skilled up toon in the hands of a pro vs another 100+mil toon leveled up the old fashioned way, in the hands of another skilled pvp guy = probably a good fight, lol.
Newbros in fresh lowskilled toons arent gonna stick around to fight a guy thats been around a while in a ship capable of killing him.
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
I dont know, and dont care. If some dude wants to piss away all his money on some pixels..... good for him. Shit people have spent thousands on star citizen and thats for nothing but jpegs at the moment!
It is not whether you care or not...it is whether it is paying for an advantage over someone that does not put in the cash or not. If it is...then that is P2W. You would have to compare two brand new characters or two vets. Does one now have an advantage over the other due to cash?
Would he have an advantage over a character that was trained up over the years vs his freshly skilled up 2 day old toon? Nope
Stop trying to compare a 2 day old toon with 400,000sp to a two day old toon with millions of skill points. its just a dumb argument period. You want to compare a 2 day old character with 100+millions of skill points, then compare it to another 100+plus toon and that player.
100+mil 2 day old toon in the hand of a newb vs 100+mil sp toon and its owner, who has played that character from scratch and has pvp skills.... 2 day old leveled up dude gets owned.
100+mil 2 day old skilled up toon in the hands of a pro vs another 100+mil toon leveled up the old fashioned way, in the hands of another skilled pvp guy = probably a good fight, lol.
Newbros in fresh lowskilled toons arent gonna stick around to fight a guy thats been around a while in a ship capable of killing him.
EVE players fail to understand what P2W means. It means I pay to have a better chance of winning than someone with the same time and experience in the game.
I don't care one way or the other about EVE, it was too boring for me long-term and I wasn't really looking for a game at the time where I was forced to guild just for the game to be viable.
That being said what is going on in EVE is really common in old games (and a lot of other things in life), people who have invested a huge amount of time and effort into something are going to be very resistant to the idea that it is broken because that implies that all that time and effort is wasted.
This is the reason I don't have conversations with people about politics/religion IRL unless they agree with me, you can almost never convince people of what the are actively trying to not believe. OFC there are always people who see objectively and surprise you, but it's hard to do even for those of us who actively try.
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
I dont know, and dont care. If some dude wants to piss away all his money on some pixels..... good for him. Shit people have spent thousands on star citizen and thats for nothing but jpegs at the moment!
It is not whether you care or not...it is whether it is paying for an advantage over someone that does not put in the cash or not. If it is...then that is P2W. You would have to compare two brand new characters or two vets. Does one now have an advantage over the other due to cash?
Would he have an advantage over a character that was trained up over the years vs his freshly skilled up 2 day old toon? Nope
Stop trying to compare a 2 day old toon with 400,000sp to a two day old toon with millions of skill points. its just a dumb argument period. You want to compare a 2 day old character with 100+millions of skill points, then compare it to another 100+plus toon and that player.
100+mil 2 day old toon in the hand of a newb vs 100+mil sp toon and its owner, who has played that character from scratch and has pvp skills.... 2 day old leveled up dude gets owned.
100+mil 2 day old skilled up toon in the hands of a pro vs another 100+mil toon leveled up the old fashioned way, in the hands of another skilled pvp guy = probably a good fight, lol.
Newbros in fresh lowskilled toons arent gonna stick around to fight a guy thats been around a while in a ship capable of killing him.
EVE players fail to understand what P2W means. It means I pay to have a better chance of winning than someone with the same time and experience in the game.
And you fail to understand EvE and why p2w doesn't apply.
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
I dont know, and dont care. If some dude wants to piss away all his money on some pixels..... good for him. Shit people have spent thousands on star citizen and thats for nothing but jpegs at the moment!
It is not whether you care or not...it is whether it is paying for an advantage over someone that does not put in the cash or not. If it is...then that is P2W. You would have to compare two brand new characters or two vets. Does one now have an advantage over the other due to cash?
Would he have an advantage over a character that was trained up over the years vs his freshly skilled up 2 day old toon? Nope
Stop trying to compare a 2 day old toon with 400,000sp to a two day old toon with millions of skill points. its just a dumb argument period. You want to compare a 2 day old character with 100+millions of skill points, then compare it to another 100+plus toon and that player.
100+mil 2 day old toon in the hand of a newb vs 100+mil sp toon and its owner, who has played that character from scratch and has pvp skills.... 2 day old leveled up dude gets owned.
100+mil 2 day old skilled up toon in the hands of a pro vs another 100+mil toon leveled up the old fashioned way, in the hands of another skilled pvp guy = probably a good fight, lol.
Newbros in fresh lowskilled toons arent gonna stick around to fight a guy thats been around a while in a ship capable of killing him.
I don't think you understand a vet player with max skills bought over a few days probably has a bigger advantage than you think.
The skills that he bought aren't an infinite resource.
The system was just rolled out and there are thousands of characters with skills to get rid of. The price of doing this will probably be much more in the future.
I understand why it appears "p2w" to some, but I don't think they fully understand the system or how EVE works.
Everything in EVE has value and is finite and the economy is the core of the game.
This isn't the company injecting the game with skills. If you could buy skills from CCP...THAT would be pay to win.
[mod edit] 1.3 trillion isk isn't much for anyone who is an old hand at eve... especially if u work markets.
I currently have enough isk/plex in eve that is stored for market manipulation that has a net work of $16k USD. I didn't spend any money on the game outside of he monthly sub fee. I do enjoy the game so am one of the few that actually pays the sub with a credit card instead of plex.
Anyone like me (and there are lot of eve vets similar to me) could do this if they wanted, it's just we have better ways of using our in game iskies than to skillwhore.
All the skills and isk in the world won't win you EvE.
Pros in cheap ships own scrubs in bling all day erry day. Take your tears and your bullshit and check it at the door !
Spoken like someone who has been playing for a while (do you deny it?) and is relying on the passive gain from skills even if they will not admit it...
More like he is assuming it was purchased by someone that never played the game....what if someone with lots of experience just wanted a pimped alt that could switch ships on the fly, has a new unknown name, and can basically do everything in the game?
Then he can do those things, but that doesn't mean he's going to succeed at them just because he has all V's.
I'll answer all of this right here.
I have been playing off and on since 2007 my first toon has 35million SP and my main has 134million sp. I acquired my main when it had 70mil skill points. I thought I was gonna start owning people, but quickly realized that was not going to happen. Now, I'm older and wiser (in game). I have an excellent understanding of combat mechanics I have never came here claiming to be a PVP god.I'm at best a middle ground skilled played. To this very day my hands still shake when I get into solo engagements!!! Shit, heres my killboard, not much to write home about. https://zkillboard.com/character/1484513237/
More skillpoints can open up more of the game for you definitely but you arent gonna "win" EvE. If someone starts a new characters and spends thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to skill injector it up, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. Skillpoints and isk out the ass wont win you shit cept a red killboard and buyers remorse. LOL
What if a skilled person, who knows the game well max skilled a toon with the new skill injectors? Now instead of having a Market trading toon, Industry toon, corp management toon, combat toon... ect ect. Now that have 1 character than can do all the things people do with 4 or 5 alts. Big fucking deal! Also, people could already buy characters with over 100million skillpoints on the character bazaar anyway.
I feel they should have capped the skillpoints at 100mil for the injectors. Just because of the forums trolls and other scrubs who just wanna talk trash about sonething they know nothing about.
How do you know this player is not a vet like you and has a good understanding of the mechanics of game play?
I dont know, and dont care. If some dude wants to piss away all his money on some pixels..... good for him. Shit people have spent thousands on star citizen and thats for nothing but jpegs at the moment!
It is not whether you care or not...it is whether it is paying for an advantage over someone that does not put in the cash or not. If it is...then that is P2W. You would have to compare two brand new characters or two vets. Does one now have an advantage over the other due to cash?
Would he have an advantage over a character that was trained up over the years vs his freshly skilled up 2 day old toon? Nope
Stop trying to compare a 2 day old toon with 400,000sp to a two day old toon with millions of skill points. its just a dumb argument period. You want to compare a 2 day old character with 100+millions of skill points, then compare it to another 100+plus toon and that player.
100+mil 2 day old toon in the hand of a newb vs 100+mil sp toon and its owner, who has played that character from scratch and has pvp skills.... 2 day old leveled up dude gets owned.
100+mil 2 day old skilled up toon in the hands of a pro vs another 100+mil toon leveled up the old fashioned way, in the hands of another skilled pvp guy = probably a good fight, lol.
Newbros in fresh lowskilled toons arent gonna stick around to fight a guy thats been around a while in a ship capable of killing him.
I don't think you understand a vet player with max skills bought over a few days probably has a bigger advantage than you think.
I dont think you have read a single word of my post you quoted
The main term pay to win means having abilities you can only get with money, if you can grind it out its not p2w. Thats pay to skip and every mmo has that in the form of mercs.
I don't think you understand a vet player with max skills bought over a few days probably has a bigger advantage than you think.
I dont think you have read a single word of my post you quoted
I did understand what you said that two equally skilled vets (one being bought skills and other being earned) with equal skill points would be a good fight.
But the question is "would a higher skilled (bought) have advantage?"
I think they would have advantage through some passive skills related to their ship.
Alright comparing EVE to traditional mmorpgs and using the term pay to win is just missing the point of the game and what winning is completely.
The skill injection system is a brilliant way to mitigate one of the biggest problems for new players who are interested in playing long term...which is the multi-year subscription requirement to reach their goals.
As far as "winning" goes. EVE isn't your standard mmorpg battle arena or open world pvp game. Its more a strategy game, getting more skills, though years of training or paying opens the door to more options only. Most of the solo pvpers and small gang pvpers who use what typically mmorpgs'ers would call skill based pvp, are often in ships and fits that require little training, though that training means a few months for a new player looking to get into this mmo-strategy game.
The skill injector system has diminishing returns, so someone looking to pilot capital ships (theyd never be able to afford doing this, and would lose on the trip home from buying anyway) wouldn't viably be able to...however someone a month into the game hooked on eve would be able to viably skip a few months of training and be competitive with 10 year vets in certain aspects of the game.
The high end "endgame" of eve would require hundreds of players spending tens of thousands each for players to pay to win, and even then eve is much more than the ships and pvp.
Its a far too complex game to pin pay to win, and this system isn't. Also there is a limited amount of skill that must be taken off one character, with efficiency loss, then sold and injected into another character. So it has its limit. One player must choose to take skill off their trained character in order for someone else to buy it. So someone whos 5 years into the game, and at one time trained up transportation and logistics for a year, but no longer participates in that segment of the game, can instead pay real money, get rid of those skills, sell the skill to a newer player or someone needing a few months boost, then use that ISK to buy a ship he will probably lose at some point.
This will allow more interested parties to be in more expensive ships faster. People in expensive ships are NEVER safe in this game, no matter how well supported.
What this is: Pay to lose expensive ships faster, and that my friend isn't winning, but is damn healthy for the game and its playerbase.
Reception of this system has been well received within the community who actually plays btw.
It really amazes me how little people grasp EVE, well maybe not, it takes years to get the basics, and most people want instant gratification and skill based action, not some giant political sandbox strategy game.
Needless to say, EVE is such a complex and different game than anything else out there that a system like this, which screams pay to win to everyone who doesn't play (or understand) shows how crazy different eve is, that it can be more of a benefit for gankers (in the long run) rather than how it appears to be a pay to win mechanic for those spending.
If I had the time to play long term id definitely get some skill training and get some long train, support (boring) skills instant trained (looking at you sentry drone lv5)
I can see him getting the win condition, as far as most most MMO players are concerned. Especially with the training that most MMO players get in other games.
But at least skill points aren't end all, be all in EvE. If that max skilled character makes a mistake, or over steps their boundary. They'll end up pretty dead. If there's a fair fight in EvE(even before skill points are accounted for), it means someone somewhere messed up pretty bad.
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I also think EvE has too many "passive" skills. Basically skills that are just "+5% agility per level"... With no module requirements, no ship requirements, or anything else. Which means you can't argue the new injectors aren't a rude drift towards P2W.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
"A bizarre twist on that story has since emerged when another player named IronBank created a brand-new character and used around $28,000 worth of injectors to max out every possible skill he could acquire to level 5. A total of around 2,846 injectors were used to boost the new character up to 473,344,000 skill points that would normally take over 20 years of skill training time to acquire. Those injectors are currently worth over 1.7 trillion ISK or about 1,423 PLEX, which would currently cost between $21,161 and $28,446 to buy with cash."
Is this the ultimate p2w or what?
I don't know what you are talking about, only games made in Asia are p2w.
Comments
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
If you do the math then. Well I don't feel like doing the math but you can only use like 5 years worth of skills on any given ship at one time. So yes he can fly anything but not better then any other 5 year old character. Because that 5 year old character is flying ships with everything he is using maxed. Basically a 5 year old character can fly 2-4 ship types with all max skills. This p2w guy cannot fly those ships better but equal to a 5 year old character. The only difference is the p2w guy can do it all on one character and other people use 5 characters or simply limit their options.
It is not whether you care or not...it is whether it is paying for an advantage over someone that does not put in the cash or not. If it is...then that is P2W. You would have to compare two brand new characters or two vets. Does one now have an advantage over the other due to cash?
Yeap.. the game is total P2W... the average pvp roam usually costs everyone involved about 20-60$ of destroyed equipment. Totally P2W when all you know is what people tell you about PLEX-cash trade values.
Stop trying to compare a 2 day old toon with 400,000sp to a two day old toon with millions of skill points. its just a dumb argument period. You want to compare a 2 day old character with 100+millions of skill points, then compare it to another 100+plus toon and that player.
100+mil 2 day old toon in the hand of a newb vs 100+mil sp toon and its owner, who has played that character from scratch and has pvp skills.... 2 day old leveled up dude gets owned.
100+mil 2 day old skilled up toon in the hands of a pro vs another 100+mil toon leveled up the old fashioned way, in the hands of another skilled pvp guy = probably a good fight, lol.
Newbros in fresh lowskilled toons arent gonna stick around to fight a guy thats been around a while in a ship capable of killing him.
That being said what is going on in EVE is really common in old games (and a lot of other things in life), people who have invested a huge amount of time and effort into something are going to be very resistant to the idea that it is broken because that implies that all that time and effort is wasted.
This is the reason I don't have conversations with people about politics/religion IRL unless they agree with me, you can almost never convince people of what the are actively trying to not believe. OFC there are always people who see objectively and surprise you, but it's hard to do even for those of us who actively try.
I don't think you understand a vet player with max skills bought over a few days probably has a bigger advantage than you think.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
The system was just rolled out and there are thousands of characters with skills to get rid of. The price of doing this will probably be much more in the future.
I understand why it appears "p2w" to some, but I don't think they fully understand the system or how EVE works.
Everything in EVE has value and is finite and the economy is the core of the game.
This isn't the company injecting the game with skills. If you could buy skills from CCP...THAT would be pay to win.
It's pay to win.
It's not pay to win.
It's pay to win.
It's not pay to win.
∞
I currently have enough isk/plex in eve that is stored for market manipulation that has a net work of $16k USD. I didn't spend any money on the game outside of he monthly sub fee. I do enjoy the game so am one of the few that actually pays the sub with a credit card instead of plex.
Anyone like me (and there are lot of eve vets similar to me) could do this if they wanted, it's just we have better ways of using our in game iskies than to skillwhore.
But the question is "would a higher skilled (bought) have advantage?"
I think they would have advantage through some passive skills related to their ship.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Alright comparing EVE to traditional mmorpgs and using the term pay to win is just missing the point of the game and what winning is completely.
The skill injection system is a brilliant way to mitigate one of the biggest problems for new players who are interested in playing long term...which is the multi-year subscription requirement to reach their goals.
As far as "winning" goes. EVE isn't your standard mmorpg battle arena or open world pvp game. Its more a strategy game, getting more skills, though years of training or paying opens the door to more options only. Most of the solo pvpers and small gang pvpers who use what typically mmorpgs'ers would call skill based pvp, are often in ships and fits that require little training, though that training means a few months for a new player looking to get into this mmo-strategy game.
The skill injector system has diminishing returns, so someone looking to pilot capital ships (theyd never be able to afford doing this, and would lose on the trip home from buying anyway) wouldn't viably be able to...however someone a month into the game hooked on eve would be able to viably skip a few months of training and be competitive with 10 year vets in certain aspects of the game.
The high end "endgame" of eve would require hundreds of players spending tens of thousands each for players to pay to win, and even then eve is much more than the ships and pvp.
Its a far too complex game to pin pay to win, and this system isn't. Also there is a limited amount of skill that must be taken off one character, with efficiency loss, then sold and injected into another character. So it has its limit. One player must choose to take skill off their trained character in order for someone else to buy it. So someone whos 5 years into the game, and at one time trained up transportation and logistics for a year, but no longer participates in that segment of the game, can instead pay real money, get rid of those skills, sell the skill to a newer player or someone needing a few months boost, then use that ISK to buy a ship he will probably lose at some point.
This will allow more interested parties to be in more expensive ships faster. People in expensive ships are NEVER safe in this game, no matter how well supported.
What this is: Pay to lose expensive ships faster, and that my friend isn't winning, but is damn healthy for the game and its playerbase.
Reception of this system has been well received within the community who actually plays btw.
It really amazes me how little people grasp EVE, well maybe not, it takes years to get the basics, and most people want instant gratification and skill based action, not some giant political sandbox strategy game.
Needless to say, EVE is such a complex and different game than anything else out there that a system like this, which screams pay to win to everyone who doesn't play (or understand) shows how crazy different eve is, that it can be more of a benefit for gankers (in the long run) rather than how it appears to be a pay to win mechanic for those spending.
If I had the time to play long term id definitely get some skill training and get some long train, support (boring) skills instant trained (looking at you sentry drone lv5)
But at least skill points aren't end all, be all in EvE. If that max skilled character makes a mistake, or over steps their boundary. They'll end up pretty dead. If there's a fair fight in EvE(even before skill points are accounted for), it means someone somewhere messed up pretty bad.
___________
I also think EvE has too many "passive" skills. Basically skills that are just "+5% agility per level"... With no module requirements, no ship requirements, or anything else. Which means you can't argue the new injectors aren't a rude drift towards P2W.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."