In any other game, buying skill points or XP, in-game currency or in-game items with cash is considered P2W. But not here because we are talking about Eve Online. That's the double standard.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Cmon Narius, of course not. While buying SPs isn't P2W in EVE due to its design, it certainly would be in most other titles and unbalance everything.
So a little p2w in Eve is ok (you admit in earlier post that it *may* be an advantage to a new player against another new player), but a lot p2w in other games is not?
So your only objection is about the matter of degree, and you fundamentally has no problem with p2w as long as the impact is little? Is that your stance?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Paying to win doesn't exist. Paying to pad someone elses killmails exists in the highest form however.
And that's what makes EVE so damn unique and fantastic.
I guess you are ok with players be able to spend real world money to gain 20 years worth of skill points in Eve. Yeah, i am sure you don't want to call it p2w.
But at the end of the day, it is pretty clear that you can bypass certain parts of the game with money.
You can't name many MMORPGs where this. hasn't always been true.
And I am OK with that.
so you are ok with all MMOs selling skill points for money now? Was that your position before?
Cmon Narius, of course not. While buying SPs isn't P2W in EVE due to its design, it certainly would be in most other titles and unbalance everything.
I am Phenomenal
A good paintball fight vs a civil war, both are the combat right?
Maybe but it definitely is a matter of degree.
And people say I view the world too much in black and white.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In any other game, buying skill points or XP, in-game currency or in-game items with cash is considered P2W. But not here because we are talking about Eve Online. That's the double standard.
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
A matter degree.
Speaking of winning, you can't, best if you give up now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In any other game, buying skill points or XP, in-game currency or in-game items with cash is considered P2W. But not here because we are talking about Eve Online. That's the double standard.
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
A matter degree.
Speaking of winning, you can't, best if you give up now.
I remain, as always, Phenomenal.
That thing you're trying to do where you pretend you've won an argument when you haven't. It doesn't fly here. Maybe in the local chat in Eve, but not here.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
My issue is more with WHY they say they implemented this. It is NOT to help new players since the in-game pricing is so high on these things. It is honestly because it generates more money which isnt a bad thing, its just that instead of admitting it, they made up this "we did it to help the new players" excuse. The only new players who this would help is a new whale, and at over 10 years old, there are not many of those coming into Eve as new players.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
I thought you admit that there is *some* impact.
So again, you don't mind p2w, as long as it is mild. Isn't that what you are saying?
EVE players (in this very thread) keep trying to explain to you how and why this system does not affect the game the way it would affect other games that you are more familiarized with; take some time to reread the relevant posts so as to reduce the unnecessary concern you are exhibiting.
People have been buying and selling characters in EVE for many years without it succumbing to any "P2W" rot and decay. Only now they can actually name and personalize their character from the get go.
While I never cared for any of these types of features, I am not concerned in the least that it will become the dreaded "P2W" in EVE's case. The game is actually designed in such a way that "P2L" will amusingly be the most likely result.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"A bizarre twist on that story has since emerged when another player named IronBank created a brand-new character and used around $28,000 worth of injectors to max out every possible skill he could acquire to level 5. A total of around 2,846 injectors were used to boost the new character up to 473,344,000 skill points that would normally take over 20 years of skill training time to acquire. Those injectors are currently worth over 1.7 trillion ISK or about 1,423 PLEX, which would currently cost between $21,161 and $28,446 to buy with cash."
Is this the ultimate p2w or what?
If you believe EVE is "the ultimate p2w," let me enlighten you...
Well, there it is, Seldon; expect to see a lot more of the same. So far this guy has only lost ships with anything he does in game. Not a great start to his "P2W investment", huh?
LMAO. "P2L" at it's finest.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
I thought you admit that there is *some* impact.
So again, you don't mind p2w, as long as it is mild. Isn't that what you are saying?
EVE players (in this very thread) keep trying to explain to you how and why this system does not affect the game the way it would affect other games that you are more familiarized with; take some time to reread the relevant posts so as to reduce the unnecessary concern you are exhibiting.
People have been buying and selling characters in EVE for many years without it succumbing to any "P2W" rot and decay. Only now they can actually name and personalize their character from the get go.
While I never cared for any of these types of features, I am not concerned in the least that it will become the dreaded "P2W" in EVE's case. The game is actually designed in such a way that "P2L" will amusingly be the most likely result.
hahahah ... buying skill points does not affect the game at all? Is that what you are saying? Not even a small effect?
Then why do we have skill points at all?
And it sounds like you are totally OK with RMT .. as long as some veteran can still beat those who spend money.
In any other game, buying skill points or XP, in-game currency or in-game items with cash is considered P2W. But not here because we are talking about Eve Online. That's the double standard.
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
A matter degree.
Speaking of winning, you can't, best if you give up now.
I remain, as always, Phenomenal.
That thing you're trying to do where you pretend you've won an argument when you haven't. It doesn't fly here. Maybe in the local chat in Eve, but not here.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In any other game, buying skill points or XP, in-game currency or in-game items with cash is considered P2W. But not here because we are talking about Eve Online. That's the double standard.
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
A matter degree.
Speaking of winning, you can't, best if you give up now.
I remain, as always, Phenomenal.
That thing you're trying to do where you pretend you've won an argument when you haven't. It doesn't fly here. Maybe in the local chat in Eve, but not here.
Who is pretending, I've destroyed all arguments.
I remain Phenomenal
Just accept...Eve is a P2W game...it has been for a long time. Real life cash can give a very strong advantage and pretty much that is the heart of P2W...does it destroy EVE...no, but EVE is P2W.....
Just accept...Eve is a P2W game...it has been for a long time. Real life cash can give a very strong advantage and pretty much that is the heart of P2W...does it destroy EVE...no, but EVE is P2W.....
In fact, it is clear that Eve is p2w. The only debate is how much.
Isn't it a fact that skill points have impact in the game? Even if it has a small impact, you can buy that impact with cash. Is anyone disputing that?
If we agree on that point, then the only discussion is about how much is the impact.
Apparently skill is really important in Eve, so you can't just buy the best stuff and be the best automatically. I have no idea, though. I detest the game's graphics and gameplay.
The main thing I take away from stories like this is: "Why the hell don't I have 28k to blow on a video game?"
Skill it totally irrelevant in eve, assets/money/ships/and however many accounts you can multi-box at once is what matters.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Apparently skill is really important in Eve, so you can't just buy the best stuff and be the best automatically. I have no idea, though. I detest the game's graphics and gameplay.
The main thing I take away from stories like this is: "Why the hell don't I have 28k to blow on a video game?"
Skill it totally irrelevant in eve, assets/money/ships/and however many accounts you can multi-box at once is what matters.
Just don't get caught multiboxing because, you know, its kind of against the EULA and you can lose your account if you use multiboxing software. Guess you didnt get the memo.
In any other game, buying skill points or XP, in-game currency or in-game items with cash is considered P2W. But not here because we are talking about Eve Online. That's the double standard.
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
A matter degree.
Speaking of winning, you can't, best if you give up now.
I remain, as always, Phenomenal.
That thing you're trying to do where you pretend you've won an argument when you haven't. It doesn't fly here. Maybe in the local chat in Eve, but not here.
Who is pretending, I've destroyed all arguments.
I remain Phenomenal
Just accept...Eve is a P2W game...it has been for a long time. Real life cash can give a very strong advantage and pretty much that is the heart of P2W...does it destroy EVE...no, but EVE is P2W.....
I will accept EVE permits you to buy inconsequential advantage, and is by no means P2W.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In any other game, buying skill points or XP, in-game currency or in-game items with cash is considered P2W. But not here because we are talking about Eve Online. That's the double standard.
Right, because unlike most any other games buying either SPs or ISK has little impact on the players winning anything.
A matter degree.
Speaking of winning, you can't, best if you give up now.
I remain, as always, Phenomenal.
That thing you're trying to do where you pretend you've won an argument when you haven't. It doesn't fly here. Maybe in the local chat in Eve, but not here.
Who is pretending, I've destroyed all arguments.
I remain Phenomenal
Just accept...Eve is a P2W game...it has been for a long time. Real life cash can give a very strong advantage and pretty much that is the heart of P2W...does it destroy EVE...no, but EVE is P2W.....
EVE has P2W in the sense that you can funnel real money into the game in order to use that in game ISK (EVE's currency), to buy whatever you want in an attempt to P2W.
EVE however has a few systems in-built or natural by design (although I suspect not entirely planned), that pose to be issues against simply attempting P2W, what I have called "P2W Reduction Methods."
I also have said, more MMO's that have cash shops with tradeable items should adopt such methods to better enhance their games and extend their lives.
I also have been trounced in forums (including this one) for presenting a basis for such as P2W Reduction Methods, so wtf do I know.
I actually like that Narius has taken up this cause. He is correct. Over and over again. Many people disagree with him all the time, but now he's really got a few people by the shorthairs. They keep trying to argue their point of view and they keep getting destroyed. It's because they are on the wrong side of the argument. Like Quirrid said... double standards. Embarrassing double standards.
The strange thing is that at this point, if you still enjoy playing the game and the change doesn't bother you, instead of arguing that you can't buy incredible advantages, you should be accepting that you are ok with them. Because the game is so good to you, you fully accept people paying to get a fully developed character with the best ships and mods in the game.
But no. Instead of accepting the truth, people just keep rationalizing it down until they can justify that their favorite game of all time (which happens to be my favorite game of all time) isn't blatantly P2W by all standards that have ever existed for the term. Purchasing a fully developed character and the best ship within a class of ships with access to all mods on day one may not guarantee that you "win" against everyone, but it certainly gives you an incredible advantage over the guy that tries to play the game without purchasing skill points or incredible mods or ships.
I actually like that Narius has taken up this cause. He is correct. Over and over again. Many people disagree with him all the time, but now he's really got a few people by the shorthairs. They keep trying to argue their point of view and they keep getting destroyed. It's because they are on the wrong side of the argument. Like Quirrid said... double standards. Embarrassing double standards.
The strange thing is that at this point, if you still enjoy playing the game and the change doesn't bother you, instead of arguing that you can't buy incredible advantages, you should be accepting that you are ok with them. Because the game is so good to you, you fully accept people paying to get a fully developed character with the best ships and mods in the game.
But no. Instead of accepting the truth, people just keep rationalizing it down until they can justify that their favorite game of all time (which happens to be my favorite game of all time) isn't blatantly P2W by all standards that have ever existed for the term. Purchasing a fully developed character and the best ship within a class of ships with access to all mods on day one may not guarantee that you "win" against everyone, but it certainly gives you an incredible advantage over the guy that tries to play the game without purchasing skill points or incredible mods or ships.
I'll go so far as to concede the player who buys it all on day one has a large advantage. 6 months later, less so, 1.5 years much less and 3 years none at all.
Those people who bought it all last week cannot beat me in the ships and careers I chose to specialize in, at least not due to SPs or ISK they bought.
So at the end of the day, they've won nothing.
I continue to be Phenomenal at "winning" in arguments as well as EVE.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I actually like that Narius has taken up this cause. He is correct. Over and over again. Many people disagree with him all the time, but now he's really got a few people by the shorthairs. They keep trying to argue their point of view and they keep getting destroyed. It's because they are on the wrong side of the argument. Like Quirrid said... double standards. Embarrassing double standards.
The strange thing is that at this point, if you still enjoy playing the game and the change doesn't bother you, instead of arguing that you can't buy incredible advantages, you should be accepting that you are ok with them. Because the game is so good to you, you fully accept people paying to get a fully developed character with the best ships and mods in the game.
But no. Instead of accepting the truth, people just keep rationalizing it down until they can justify that their favorite game of all time (which happens to be my favorite game of all time) isn't blatantly P2W by all standards that have ever existed for the term. Purchasing a fully developed character and the best ship within a class of ships with access to all mods on day one may not guarantee that you "win" against everyone, but it certainly gives you an incredible advantage over the guy that tries to play the game without purchasing skill points or incredible mods or ships.
I'll go so far as to concede the player who buys it all on day one has a large advantage. 6 months later, less so, 1.5 years much less and 3 years none at all.
Those people who bought it all last week cannot beat me in the ships and careers I chose to specialize in, at least not due to SPs or ISK they bought.
So at the end of the day, they've won nothing.
I continue to be Phenomenal at "winning" in arguments as well as EVE.
Comments
So buying SP is ok in Eve because the advantage is small, but not in other games because the advantage may be bigger?
Unless SP does not do anything, there is always, at least, a little bit of p2w. So .. does SP do anything in Eve?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
There, you win, are you happy now?
I am Phenomenal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A good paintball fight vs a civil war, both are the combat right?
Maybe but it definitely is a matter of degree.
And people say I view the world too much in black and white.
I am Phenomenal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A matter degree.
Speaking of winning, you can't, best if you give up now.
I remain, as always, Phenomenal.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
So again, you don't mind p2w, as long as it is mild. Isn't that what you are saying?
People have been buying and selling characters in EVE for many years without it succumbing to any "P2W" rot and decay. Only now they can actually name and personalize their character from the get go.
While I never cared for any of these types of features, I am not concerned in the least that it will become the dreaded "P2W" in EVE's case. The game is actually designed in such a way that "P2L" will amusingly be the most likely result.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/pwi
You make EVE sound CHEAP compared to Perfect World International
https://zkillboard.com/kill/52237296/
LMAO. "P2L" at it's finest.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Then why do we have skill points at all?
And it sounds like you are totally OK with RMT .. as long as some veteran can still beat those who spend money.
so buy skill points with real money is cool with you, as long as others can still beat him?
Who is pretending, I've destroyed all arguments.
I remain Phenomenal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just accept...Eve is a P2W game...it has been for a long time. Real life cash can give a very strong advantage and pretty much that is the heart of P2W...does it destroy EVE...no, but EVE is P2W.....
Isn't it a fact that skill points have impact in the game? Even if it has a small impact, you can buy that impact with cash. Is anyone disputing that?
If we agree on that point, then the only discussion is about how much is the impact.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Guess you didnt get the memo.
Forever Phenomenal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE however has a few systems in-built or natural by design (although I suspect not entirely planned), that pose to be issues against simply attempting P2W, what I have called "P2W Reduction Methods."
I also have said, more MMO's that have cash shops with tradeable items should adopt such methods to better enhance their games and extend their lives.
I also have been trounced in forums (including this one) for presenting a basis for such as P2W Reduction Methods, so wtf do I know.
So a small advantage is inconsequential?
The strange thing is that at this point, if you still enjoy playing the game and the change doesn't bother you, instead of arguing that you can't buy incredible advantages, you should be accepting that you are ok with them. Because the game is so good to you, you fully accept people paying to get a fully developed character with the best ships and mods in the game.
But no. Instead of accepting the truth, people just keep rationalizing it down until they can justify that their favorite game of all time (which happens to be my favorite game of all time) isn't blatantly P2W by all standards that have ever existed for the term. Purchasing a fully developed character and the best ship within a class of ships with access to all mods on day one may not guarantee that you "win" against everyone, but it certainly gives you an incredible advantage over the guy that tries to play the game without purchasing skill points or incredible mods or ships.
Those people who bought it all last week cannot beat me in the ships and careers I chose to specialize in, at least not due to SPs or ISK they bought.
So at the end of the day, they've won nothing.
I continue to be Phenomenal at "winning" in arguments as well as EVE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon