From what I've read, they couldn't develop the new technology to create the game they envisioned. That doesn't mean we won't see aspects of what they've developed in EQ:N elsewhere.
“Unfortunately, as we put together the pieces, we found that it wasn’t fun. We know you have high standards when it comes to Norrath and we do too. In final review, we had to face the fact that EverQuest Next would not meet the expectations we—and all of you—have for the worlds of Norrath.”
Landmark will live on though.
I guess one fewer AAA old style MMORPGs. Any more of those in development?
Again, your logic is wrong. It wasn't an "old style" MMO, which is a big part of why it died. It tried to be Disney/WOW/Minecraft all at the same time. Who wants to play that? I didn't.
A new AAA "old style" MMO would own the market.
I dont think it died becuase it was trying to create something different which is what us gamers scream about on a daily bases. I think it died because of John Smedley.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
“Unfortunately, as we put together the pieces, we found that it wasn’t fun. We know you have high standards when it comes to Norrath and we do too. In final review, we had to face the fact that EverQuest Next would not meet the expectations we—and all of you—have for the worlds of Norrath.”
Landmark will live on though.
I guess one fewer AAA old style MMORPGs. Any more of those in development?
I certainly don't get the impression that EQ:N's cancellation signals a trend in the industry. I can only name 3 major MMORPGs (UO2, Titan, and EQ:N) that were actually cancelled prior to launch. Did I miss any?
I know you are a proponent of ARPGs and MOBAs, @Nariusseldon, which is perfectly fine. I've played far more hours of Diablo I and II than I care to admit, and I really enjoyed Marvel Heroes for a bit. Neither game really ticks the 'Massive Multiplayer' for me, feeling much more like single player or very small group experiences. I've never cared for Blizzard's Arena.net. But Diablo on a LAN party is totally in its element.
The failure of one company to deliver one promised product simply can't be inferred as an indictment for the entire industry. At best, you can infer things about that particular company or that particular product, not competing businesses developing similar products. Did the automotive industry fold after delivering the VW Thing, the Yugo, or the Ford Nova?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Good god , there was nothing old school about EQ Next. Mixed on the fly changing character classes, no real death penalties , Disney cartoon faces ?
Who ever said it was old school at all ?
They were pimping the name EQ was all , I'm glad their terrible , terrible plan for the IP failed.
I dont think it was a bad plan or direction I think it was John Smedley more than likely just screwed up the project interally beyond anyones understanding.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
There is no way this was going to be an old school game. The name was old school but that was about it. This was going to be a GW2 clone mixed with a little minecraft. No trinity, everybody could be every class blah blah blah.
Considering the OP, it isn't surprising the stuff that he posts. When EQN was announced, I thought that it was too different from EQ from a traditional context. Which means, it obviously and certainly is not old school.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Sometimes I think people who break out the old school comment are just tired of MMORPGs. I wouldn't assume John Smedley messed up anything in this case. They've stated it was the cost and time to produce the subsystems the game depends on that killed the project. John could very well have improved from his passed failures, but we can't really tell anymore because the pancreatic cancer of modern society decided to launch a campaign of harassment so terrible that it forced him to change careers for his own safety. People do have the ability to grow and change.
Sometimes I think people who break out the old school comment are just tired of MMORPGs. I wouldn't assume John Smedley messed up anything in this case. They've stated it was the cost and time to produce the subsystems the game depends on that killed the project. John could very well have improved from his passed failures, but we can't really tell anymore because the pancreatic cancer of modern society decided to launch a campaign of harassment so terrible that it forced him to change careers for his own safety. People do have the ability to grow and change.
John being a target and what he said or didnt say to players aside (and as a side note is something I know very little about) I am referring to how H1Z1 itself doesnt have a single solitary original thought to it, took every trend out there and smashed it up into one game, said it was not play to win when it clearly was, then even delivered the copy and paste game in a poor fashion.
I dont think he has what it takes to run a large scale game project to be frank.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
They redid EQ Next like 3 times. It seemed like they kept chasing the trending gameplay, then before they could finish, it got stale and they shifted focus. Finally settled on the final iteration of EQN. The more information they released on it, for me at least, the less I wanted to play it, eventually losing all interest.
As soon as they sold, I knew the game was over. If that red flag wasn't enough for people, when they parted ways with the voxel people, it definitely was over since that was one of their main draws, lol.
I was looking forward to a new EQ game, even with just a small bit of old school in it, but EQ Next was far from it, and just seemed to incorporate every little fotm aspect that just didn't seem that popular for long. I'm kind of glad it didn't release only because it sounded like utter crap which would have completely destroyed the franchise.
Of course it doesn't look too good for a new EQ to come out in the future, but one can hope, lol.
They've stated it was the cost and time to produce the subsystems the game depends on that killed the project.
According to Feldon of EQ2Wire, EQNext was a project in development for 10 years (2006-2016) and underwent 4 reboots.
They can claim anything they want is a damage control interview, but it is pretty clear the team didn't have their crap together and all they were capable of was Landmark after 10 years of work.
They've stated it was the cost and time to produce the subsystems the game depends on that killed the project.
According to Feldon of EQ2Wire, EQNext was a project in development for 10 years (2006-2016) and underwent 4 reboots.
They can claim anything they want is a damage control interview, but it is pretty clear the team didn't have their crap together and all they were capable of was Landmark after 10 years of work.
Ha, good to know it was 4 reboots, I knew there were at least 3.
Sony execs thought the dev team was wasting money for years and then chose a terrible new direction for the game, so they pawned it off the whole deptartment to try to recoupe some of the wasted money. DBG bought it up...and discovered Sony was right. Its just that simple.
Daybreak didn't do this. The teams NOT building a proper EQ3 did this. This is the result of the EQ devs making crap progress for years, then when Sony called them on it they tried to save their asses by coming up with this "new idea" mincraft with cartoons EQN bull****. Daybreak just inherited the problem Sony didnt want to deal with, and they made the decision Sony should have.
From what I've read, they couldn't develop the new technology to create the game they envisioned. That doesn't mean we won't see aspects of what they've developed in EQ:N elsewhere.
I hope its not the source of the problem because this engine looks amazong
That was part of it. SoE was working with Voxelfarm and Storybricks while both of those systems were still early in development. Additional troubles popped up in trying to marry those systems into their Forgelite engine, as all three had to have consistent revisions and compromises to try and meet compatibility.
As it is now, it'd be easier for these things to be integrated together, but that's because of all the investment and effort that's gone into it to reach the state they are in now. Another company might be able to pick up that banner and benefit from it, but at this point DBG is tapped out and they don't have what it takes to pull it off.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Better that EQNext was canceled, than be released as the stripped down, arcade style, button mashing, casual focused game that was looking like it was going to be.
From what I've read, they couldn't develop the new technology to create the game they envisioned. That doesn't mean we won't see aspects of what they've developed in EQ:N elsewhere.
I hope its not the source of the problem because this engine looks amazong
That was part of it. SoE was working with Voxelfarm and Storybricks while both of those systems were still early in development. Additional troubles popped up in trying to marry those systems into their Forgelite engine, as all three had to have consistent revisions and compromises to try and meet compatibility.
As it is now, it'd be easier for these things to be integrated together, but that's because of all the investment and effort that's gone into it to reach the state they are in now. Another company might be able to pick up that banner and benefit from it, but at this point DBG is tapped out and they don't have what it takes to pull it off.
sounds realistic and reasonable.
I also think for them to jump on the latest and greatest upcoming tech was not a bad move, in fact a good move. The challenge is small teams like those making subnautica can just burn out work and innovation so fast its hard for these large companies to compete on the innovation level, so i think moving forward in this industry trying to stay ahead of the curve is a good thing when possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Better that EQNext was canceled, than be released as the stripped down, arcade style, button mashing, casual focused game that was looking like it was going to be.
Turns out games are created to be enjoyed, not to be tedious slow-traveling grindfests. Who knew!
There's also a contingent of people who believe that if you're going to take the title of a popular game and paste it onto a new game, then it should, gameplay wise, resemble the original somewhat.
For instance, Planetside 2 is completely different from Planetside 1 in almost every single regard except for the names of the factions and names of the vehicles. Everything mechanically that made PS1 so fun was stripped away and replaced wholesale with Call of Duty mechanics.
Personally, I'm fine with companies making fun and lighthearted games, easy games and games that copy other games. But if the game isn't going to mechanically resemble it's predecessor, then ffs, change the name and move on.
Better that EQNext was canceled, than be released as the stripped down, arcade style, button mashing, casual focused game that was looking like it was going to be.
I also think for them to jump on the latest and greatest upcoming tech was not a bad move, in fact a good move. The challenge is small teams like those making subnautica can just burn out work and innovation so fast its hard for these large companies to compete on the innovation level, so i think moving forward in this industry trying to stay ahead of the curve is a good thing when possible
It's necessary really. The aspects that EQ:N was trying to bring to the genre was the introduction of systems that could create a vastly more dynamic user experience through an AI system that could apply personalities, conversational skills, reactionary behavior and migrating units alongside a world that could physically change and evolve in real time with the players.
For indie developers innovation is easier because they did it on a small scale. The introduction of new gameplay and evolved mechanics comes about because that's the primary focus of the title rather than having to pour a budget into developing a massive full-feature title that has to compete on a spectrum of gameplay.
Even failures like this benefits the genre though, as the technology that was strived for has delivered plenty of progress and opened up the opportunity for others to continue it, even if SoE/ DBG failed out.
Primary reason, some of these features just cost a psychotic amount to research and develop. In order to have the investment into developing the complex server AI and integrating it with a full-feature game like an MMO is a gigantic hurdle that's yet to be achieved. If it could be pulled off though, aspects like enemy bandits that track local activities and react accordingly to stalk highways, steal from towns, or kidnap targets becomes viable alongside features like "clearing a bandit camp" actually resulting in that camp being cleared and the bandits being forced to uproot and move elsewhere. Conversations with AI becomes more deep and interesting as social skills becomes a meaningful quality, and how you act towards an NPC could actually affect their reaction to you.
We have snippets of these features stranded across other games and genres, but integrating them into a server architecture to support a ton of players and deliver a more complete simulated world with greater depth and interactivity has yet to be done, and it's because of that hurdle in development and cost. Ultimately someone has to bite the bullet and invest into it. SoE took that risk, and others till have to if the genre wants to continue to evolve.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
He knows what he likes and he likes what he knows. But since he does not stay in one for more than a few months he never truly likes any of them from my point of view.
I was saying years ago that triple AAA was on the way out, I remember posters pointing out a few AAA MMOs that showed I was wrong, then they were pointing out a couple of AAA MMOs, then one a year if we were lucky. This has been going one way for a very long time.
Entertainment does go in cycles however so AAA could come back. The problem there is the expense, 2D platformers made a comeback, but they were not mind bogglingly expensive to make.
If you need a point of no return I guess it was Farmville, on this site you had articles which portrayed the consternation and dilemma of developers of big budget games when they realised how much money it was taking considering the cost of its creation.
I think there is room for one AAA every couple of years, with no new AAA competition that would make a splash. The big question, do you want to spend a lot more money when you can spend less in gaming for a safer return? Games are just numbers on an account sheet now outside of indie.
So what are we left with? Small easy MMOs which seem to be a western speciality. Mobas and other small spin off games. Small MMO like games on smartphones. I think you are seeing the theme here.
We will get some big eastern releases, always with impeccable graphics, but never quite to our taste it seems.
Meanwhile all is not lost, pick a AAA MMO you like, get yourself a good guild, full of like minded people and try to play it old school as much as you can while bitching about how far the genre has fallen.
It only had the name Everquest, but nothing in common. It was supposed to be a 4 button mashing action style minecraft clone. Ok, exaggerated, but closer then it was to EQ.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Comments
http://voxelfarm.com/
I hope its not the source of the problem because this engine looks amazong
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I know you are a proponent of ARPGs and MOBAs, @Nariusseldon, which is perfectly fine. I've played far more hours of Diablo I and II than I care to admit, and I really enjoyed Marvel Heroes for a bit. Neither game really ticks the 'Massive Multiplayer' for me, feeling much more like single player or very small group experiences. I've never cared for Blizzard's Arena.net. But Diablo on a LAN party is totally in its element.
The failure of one company to deliver one promised product simply can't be inferred as an indictment for the entire industry. At best, you can infer things about that particular company or that particular product, not competing businesses developing similar products. Did the automotive industry fold after delivering the VW Thing, the Yugo, or the Ford Nova?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Who ever said it was old school at all ?
They were pimping the name EQ was all , I'm glad their terrible , terrible plan for the IP failed.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Considering the OP, it isn't surprising the stuff that he posts. When EQN was announced, I thought that it was too different from EQ from a traditional context. Which means, it obviously and certainly is not old school.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I dont think he has what it takes to run a large scale game project to be frank.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
As soon as they sold, I knew the game was over. If that red flag wasn't enough for people, when they parted ways with the voxel people, it definitely was over since that was one of their main draws, lol.
I was looking forward to a new EQ game, even with just a small bit of old school in it, but EQ Next was far from it, and just seemed to incorporate every little fotm aspect that just didn't seem that popular for long. I'm kind of glad it didn't release only because it sounded like utter crap which would have completely destroyed the franchise.
Of course it doesn't look too good for a new EQ to come out in the future, but one can hope, lol.
I thought EQnext was everything but Old Style
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
According to Feldon of EQ2Wire, EQNext was a project in development for 10 years (2006-2016) and underwent 4 reboots.
They can claim anything they want is a damage control interview, but it is pretty clear the team didn't have their crap together and all they were capable of was Landmark after 10 years of work.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Daybreak didn't do this. The teams NOT building a proper EQ3 did this. This is the result of the EQ devs making crap progress for years, then when Sony called them on it they tried to save their asses by coming up with this "new idea" mincraft with cartoons EQN bull****. Daybreak just inherited the problem Sony didnt want to deal with, and they made the decision Sony should have.
As it is now, it'd be easier for these things to be integrated together, but that's because of all the investment and effort that's gone into it to reach the state they are in now. Another company might be able to pick up that banner and benefit from it, but at this point DBG is tapped out and they don't have what it takes to pull it off.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Trekkies Bash New Star Trek as "Fun, Watchable"
Turns out games are created to be enjoyed, not to be tedious slow-traveling grindfests. Who knew!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I also think for them to jump on the latest and greatest upcoming tech was not a bad move, in fact a good move. The challenge is small teams like those making subnautica can just burn out work and innovation so fast its hard for these large companies to compete on the innovation level, so i think moving forward in this industry trying to stay ahead of the curve is a good thing when possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
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For instance, Planetside 2 is completely different from Planetside 1 in almost every single regard except for the names of the factions and names of the vehicles. Everything mechanically that made PS1 so fun was stripped away and replaced wholesale with Call of Duty mechanics.
Personally, I'm fine with companies making fun and lighthearted games, easy games and games that copy other games. But if the game isn't going to mechanically resemble it's predecessor, then ffs, change the name and move on.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
For indie developers innovation is easier because they did it on a small scale. The introduction of new gameplay and evolved mechanics comes about because that's the primary focus of the title rather than having to pour a budget into developing a massive full-feature title that has to compete on a spectrum of gameplay.
Even failures like this benefits the genre though, as the technology that was strived for has delivered plenty of progress and opened up the opportunity for others to continue it, even if SoE/ DBG failed out.
Primary reason, some of these features just cost a psychotic amount to research and develop. In order to have the investment into developing the complex server AI and integrating it with a full-feature game like an MMO is a gigantic hurdle that's yet to be achieved. If it could be pulled off though, aspects like enemy bandits that track local activities and react accordingly to stalk highways, steal from towns, or kidnap targets becomes viable alongside features like "clearing a bandit camp" actually resulting in that camp being cleared and the bandits being forced to uproot and move elsewhere. Conversations with AI becomes more deep and interesting as social skills becomes a meaningful quality, and how you act towards an NPC could actually affect their reaction to you.
We have snippets of these features stranded across other games and genres, but integrating them into a server architecture to support a ton of players and deliver a more complete simulated world with greater depth and interactivity has yet to be done, and it's because of that hurdle in development and cost. Ultimately someone has to bite the bullet and invest into it. SoE took that risk, and others till have to if the genre wants to continue to evolve.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
He knows what he likes and he likes what he knows. But since he does not stay in one for more than a few months he never truly likes any of them from my point of view.
I was saying years ago that triple AAA was on the way out, I remember posters pointing out a few AAA MMOs that showed I was wrong, then they were pointing out a couple of AAA MMOs, then one a year if we were lucky. This has been going one way for a very long time.
Entertainment does go in cycles however so AAA could come back. The problem there is the expense, 2D platformers made a comeback, but they were not mind bogglingly expensive to make.
If you need a point of no return I guess it was Farmville, on this site you had articles which portrayed the consternation and dilemma of developers of big budget games when they realised how much money it was taking considering the cost of its creation.
I think there is room for one AAA every couple of years, with no new AAA competition that would make a splash. The big question, do you want to spend a lot more money when you can spend less in gaming for a safer return? Games are just numbers on an account sheet now outside of indie.
So what are we left with? Small easy MMOs which seem to be a western speciality. Mobas and other small spin off games. Small MMO like games on smartphones. I think you are seeing the theme here.
We will get some big eastern releases, always with impeccable graphics, but never quite to our taste it seems.
Meanwhile all is not lost, pick a AAA MMO you like, get yourself a good guild, full of like minded people and try to play it old school as much as you can while bitching about how far the genre has fallen.
It only had the name Everquest, but nothing in common. It was supposed to be a 4 button mashing action style minecraft clone. Ok, exaggerated, but closer then it was to EQ.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?