It is a shame that an author on a mmorpg site fails to grasp the whole concept of mmorpgs and the gear treadmill that goes on within them. It has been this way since I was knee high to a grasshopper and generally not much has changed as the casual and hardcore crowd will normally always have a gear gap. Firstly I will say up front im against this being added simply because the gear gap in BDO is massive, in GW2 someone in ascended can compete with someone in exotics so it breaks from the norm and is one of the few cases where having the gem to gold does not have a large impact.
In BDO the difference between gear is massive especially when you take into consideration accessories. If this was truly a case of allowing others to obtain cash shop items why not let people convert ingame gold into cash shop currency like GW2 does, so they can buy the items without people selling them ingame. They won't do this simply because it is not about letting others obtain the items, it is all about milking those whales who will spend a fortune buying and selling items to buy there way to the top.
It is a sorry day when gamers are condoning this type of practice where rather than play to get better gear its pay to get better gear. Whether they are the best does not matter as they paying real money to be better than what they were and better than a large majority of the playerbase when previously they might not have been. I just can't condone a practice of paying real money to get ahead rather than play the game to get ahead. Just because you have a job does not give you right of passage to be able to pay your way to be competitive. Play the game like everyone else and if you don't have the time to play and be competitive then you're playing the wrong genre or have set your goals way too high.
"To once again reference Guild Wars 2 as an example, I have on many occasions purchased Gems and converted them to gold. I’ve used the gold to level crafting, buy Ascended materials and even a Legendary weapon or two. I would have eventually accumulated such quantities of gold simply by playing the game and saving all that I earned. However, the Gem system allowed me acquire the wealth instantly as opposed to in six months time. Did I pay to win? Not really, but I did pay to bypass months of potential gold grind. Did I gain an advantage over anyone else in the process? Again, not really. I might have gained gold considerably quicker than those unwilling to hand ArenaNet money and obtained Ascended items before some players, but the attribute gain was marginal."
The stat increase was very negligible in GW2, so it didn't matter much, but in a game like BDO, it could make more of an impact on the balance of power since the game is all about PvP and power, especially regarding guilds. I don't have enough knowledge on the stat imbalance this would cause in BDO though. Unless someone does the math, there's no reason for people to be doomsayers.
Yeh brother i understand your point of view:) i was metaphorically speaking U will always have someone whit $ that will cut in front of your job , your wife/gf , your education etc
That's life for you, the ultimate sandbox.
Yep, life is shit because of money and greed.
Games are fun because they allow you to compete within an artificial set of rules separate from the real world.
Unless they're p2w.
But when 99% of things obtained in MMORPGS has nothing to do with player skill and just time investments It doesn't really matter.
"To once again reference Guild Wars 2 as an example, I have on many occasions purchased Gems and converted them to gold. I’ve used the gold to level crafting, buy Ascended materials and even a Legendary weapon or two. I would have eventually accumulated such quantities of gold simply by playing the game and saving all that I earned. However, the Gem system allowed me acquire the wealth instantly as opposed to in six months time. Did I pay to win? Not really, but I did pay to bypass months of potential gold grind. Did I gain an advantage over anyone else in the process? Again, not really. I might have gained gold considerably quicker than those unwilling to hand ArenaNet money and obtained Ascended items before some players, but the attribute gain was marginal."
The stat increase was very negligible in GW2, so it didn't matter much, but in a game like BDO, it could make more of an impact on the balance of power since the game is all about PvP and power, especially regarding guilds. I don't have enough knowledge on the stat imbalance this would cause in BDO though. Unless someone does the math, there's no reason for people to be doomsayers.
I also used GW2 as a good example in another post. GW2 doesnt have open world PvP so there is no advantage there. And the PvP is equalized so nothing you buy with gems makes you win. And since the game is not a gear thread mill you dont need the best in slot overpriced gear to clear content so P2W really doesnt apply in GW2. Unfortunately BDO looks like it is a different story. I guess most Korean devs dont understand how business models work in the west, even if they charge up front for the game.
If anything from the cash shop makes the game quicker and easier, it's P2W.
Its not that the items in the pearl shop are P2W, but that they can be sold for Silver in the game which will give a massive advantage, and thats where the P2W comes in, not from the items being sold themselves, but the silver obtained because of it.
Yeh brother i understand your point of view:) i was metaphorically speaking U will always have someone whit $ that will cut in front of your job , your wife/gf , your education etc
That's life for you, the ultimate sandbox.
Yep, life is shit because of money and greed.
Games are fun because they allow you to compete within an artificial set of rules separate from the real world.
Unless they're p2w.
But when 99% of things obtained in MMORPGS has nothing to do with player skill and just time investments It doesn't really matter.
But when a game depends on time and skill, and lets face it, if someone wanted to they could get to 55 in just a couple of weeks at most and have earned enough silver in the game to at least get their gear to at least +15. It means new players are not really at a disadvantage, because in just a few weeks they can get themselves into a position where they have a chance. When you introduce P2W though, the ones more likely to take advantage of it are those who already have a time investment in the game, which means new players if they want to compete, are going to have to shell out some serious $$ in addition to time and effort in order to compete, and those people with limited time and perhaps less real ability, will have to pay out several orders of magnitude in $$ more. Before too long, as usually happens in these kinds of games, the amount of money needed by new players to compete with those already established moves beyond the means of the average player. It becomes all about the money.
When you introduce P2W though, the ones more likely to take advantage of it are those who already have a time investment in the game...
I keep saying that but the "gold buying is good" evangelicals would like us to believe that it's two totally different gamer demographics: those with time and those with money.... yeah right.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
P2W or not, one thing is for sure, that Daum lied to their customers and presented their product as a B2P game with the abscence of all the F2P elements in cash shop that would lead to p2w. That thing they promiced. That was the diference anyway from the other regions.
That's why BDOs' community is angry now, because they feel they got scammed. So why to pay for the game and now have those similarities in cash shop with the f2p regions? Answer is simple like OP said, with their overprised cash shop items they had small profit that's why they do this change to milk more money. And after that ofcourse f2p is coming, because all these whale players need "customers" for their purchased cash shop items. F2P players is the key because they do not give a cent for anything, they will farm in-game money and they will buy those items. That thing will come, is a matter of time. As for the GW2 in my opinion it's not exactly the same case because there you get max level in 2 weeks and you pvp with same gear in WVW if i remember right, but BDO has no level cap, it is too much grinding, gear is so important and due to the open world pvp a player that earns in-game money by simple opening his wallet will be in an advantage over others.
Anyway conclusion in my opinion is that Daum will gain some profit ofcourse at first, then f2p will be introduced soon and in the end their game will die.
Except they didn't promise.
People don't read or, once again, they fill in the gaps with their own narrative.
What they said was that they wouldn't have items available to sell in the market place that could be purchased by cash at the start of the game but would revisit it at a later time and if they were to do that they would essentially "be very careful" how it was implemented.
Ok, they did not promise like you are saying, but they cheated players, do we agree on that? They clearly said, and not only in this video but in their forum too before game released, that cash shop items could not be listed in marketplace for in-game money. They cleverly added this in their product presentation because they wanted their "B2P" label to have a meaning. They wanted to milk money in other words. So they did not promise but they scammed players. Look in the end what product we are getting, same with other regions with the big diference though that in other regions they did not pay for it. p.s. sorry for my english, is not my mother language but they are enough for me to understand if I got scammed or not.
BDO was pay2win the moment it was released. Now? It's a typical pay2win dump.
Pets and costumes that make game so much easier, weight & inventory limit that make it all more enjoyable and all that shit are all conveniences that add up and when you had all that shit you could easily slice thought content. It was P2W then already.
If anything from the cash shop makes the game quicker and easier, it's P2W.
According to your definition - Black Desert was P2W at launch as pets, Elions tears, costumes with trade boosts, weight increase, luck boost garments etc.... made the game easier and quicker
for me P2W is if the COMPANY sell BIS gear in the STORE for ONLY REAL MONEY, that's all.
And this is exactly what publishers love to hear. It's so easy to get around. Meanwhile players in most of these the games who are spending money are dominating every aspect of game play over those who don't.
Brute forcing rng by buying and selling cash shop items (charms mostly) because regrades required so much gold and succeeded so little.
This whole thing doesn't cause me alarm, like I doubt it would affect MY gameplay, but it is kind of a scummy thing to pull. God knows how much money whales would have to drop to buy their way into pen-whatever. It's the principle of it, but apparently this is the way games are going now. I was about to screech at my husband for buying total warhammer because they cut the game down to like 1 or 2 races and started selling the others as dlcs. What. THE FUCK, 50 bucks for the barebones skeleton of a game!?
If anything from the cash shop makes the game quicker and easier, it's P2W.
Its not that the items in the pearl shop are P2W, but that they can be sold for Silver in the game which will give a massive advantage, and thats where the P2W comes in, not from the items being sold themselves, but the silver obtained because of it.
Then I take it EVE and GW2 also are P2W?
If you gave EVE and GW2 the same mechanics being discussed in BDO, they would be, but since EVE's RMT is based on a 3 party system and the transactions are between players and not the publisher AND since GW2 has a very limited low ceiling on gear stats that is easily obtained in mere hrs of game play, there aren't quite the same so not to worry.
Someone needs to do the math and explain how it's P2W.
Why, is your calculator and google button broken?
agreed, i was searching for the triple facepalm picture... we need Jean luc Picard, Ryker, and Q to all do that pose, it would be awesome, and so very very appropriate.
GeezerGamer said: If you gave EVE and GW2 the same mechanics being discussed in BDO, they would be, but since EVE's RMT is based on a 3 party system and the transactions are between players and not the publisher AND since GW2 has a very limited low ceiling on gear stats that is easily obtained in mere hrs of game play, there aren't quite the same so not to worry.
So despite other games are doing exactly the same, "P2W" exists in BDO only.
Someone needs to do the math and explain how it's P2W.
Why, is your calculator and google button broken?
agreed, i was searching for the triple facepalm picture... we need Jean luc Picard, Ryker, and Q to all do that pose, it would be awesome, and so very very appropriate.
On an off topic, this was always my personal favorite
GeezerGamer said: If you gave EVE and GW2 the same mechanics being discussed in BDO, they would be, but since EVE's RMT is based on a 3 party system and the transactions are between players and not the publisher AND since GW2 has a very limited low ceiling on gear stats that is easily obtained in mere hrs of game play, there aren't quite the same so not to worry.
So despite other games are doing exactly the same, "P2W" exists in BDO only.
Brilliant.
I love it when someone takes someone else's quote entirely out of context, then post some BS nonsense they themselves made up and preface it with the "So" as if to make it look like the 1st post quoted said what the 2nd poster said.
I might just as well take your post and respond with "So, what you are saying is that you like to kick puppies?"
Let's be clear about this........In no way did I (or my example) try to indicate that BDO was the only P2W game....Infact your hyperbole is so blatant, it's actually obvious who made what up.
Now, if actually took the time to understand the post and look at the context of my post, you could see that I am indicating that individual game mechanics have a partin how you consider a game P2W.
Looking at GW2's cash shop, it checks all the boxes for P2W. Money to gold conversion, abitlity to indirectly get dam near best is slot gear. Ability to use real money to level a character fully to 80 without stepping foot outside a city.....etc etc...Yet GW2 is not P2W. Why? It has a different set of gear mechanics than BDO.......I do believe I did say that.
GeezerGamer said: Now, if actually took the time to understand the post and look at the context of my post, you could see that I am indicating that individual game mechanics have a partin how you consider a game P2W.
Oh, I did read it carefully and I do understand it. Afterall, that is why I wrote what I wrote.
If it checks all boxes for "P2W", it is "P2W". You just don't mind it within certain games.
GeezerGamer said: If you gave EVE and GW2 the same mechanics being discussed in BDO, they would be, but since EVE's RMT is based on a 3 party system and the transactions are between players and not the publisher AND since GW2 has a very limited low ceiling on gear stats that is easily obtained in mere hrs of game play, there aren't quite the same so not to worry.
So despite other games are doing exactly the same, "P2W" exists in BDO only.
Brilliant.
I love it when someone takes someone else's quote entirely out of context, then post some BS nonsense they themselves made up and preface it with the "So" as if to make it look like the 1st post quoted said what the 2nd poster said.
I might just as well take your post and respond with "So, what you are saying is that you like to kick puppies?"
Let's be clear about this........In no way did I (or my example) try to indicate that BDO was the only P2W game....Infact your hyperbole is so blatant, it's actually obvious who made what up.
Now, if actually took the time to understand the post and look at the context of my post, you could see that I am indicating that individual game mechanics have a partin how you consider a game P2W.
Looking at GW2's cash shop, it checks all the boxes for P2W. Money to gold conversion, abitlity to indirectly get dam near best is slot gear. Ability to use real money to level a character fully to 80 without stepping foot outside a city.....etc etc...Yet GW2 is not P2W. Why? It has a different set of gear mechanics than BDO.......I do believe I did say that.
"AND since GW2 has a very limited low ceiling on gear stats that is easily obtained in mere hrs of game play, there aren't quite the same so not to worry."
That's being selective and subjective though. If P2W doesn't have a standard definition, then any game is subject to the ever-changing opinions of each person, as to what constitutes P2W.
"Yet GW2 is not P2W. Why? It has a different set of gear mechanics than BDO.......I do believe I did say that."
Both allow stats to be bought, which increases power. In GW2, people can indirectly buy their way to the best gear while competing against other guilds for PVE content (especially since raids were recently released). Competition isn't solely for PvP.
Someone needs to do the math and explain how it's P2W.
Why, is your calculator and google button broken?
Those making the claim are obligated to back up their claims.
Most people on either side of the fence have accepted that the game will now sell advantages. I don't think the argument here is "BDO is going P2W" vs. "No it's not"
P2W or not, one thing is for sure, that Daum lied to their customers and presented their product as a B2P game with the abscence of all the F2P elements in cash shop that would lead to p2w. That thing they promiced. That was the diference anyway from the other regions.
That's why BDOs' community is angry now, because they feel they got scammed. So why to pay for the game and now have those similarities in cash shop with the f2p regions? Answer is simple like OP said, with their overprised cash shop items they had small profit that's why they do this change to milk more money. And after that ofcourse f2p is coming, because all these whale players need "customers" for their purchased cash shop items. F2P players is the key because they do not give a cent for anything, they will farm in-game money and they will buy those items. That thing will come, is a matter of time. As for the GW2 in my opinion it's not exactly the same case because there you get max level in 2 weeks and you pvp with same gear in WVW if i remember right, but BDO has no level cap, it is too much grinding, gear is so important and due to the open world pvp a player that earns in-game money by simple opening his wallet will be in an advantage over others.
Anyway conclusion in my opinion is that Daum will gain some profit ofcourse at first, then f2p will be introduced soon and in the end their game will die.
Except they didn't promise.
People don't read or, once again, they fill in the gaps with their own narrative.
What they said was that they wouldn't have items available to sell in the market place that could be purchased by cash at the start of the game but would revisit it at a later time and if they were to do that they would essentially "be very careful" how it was implemented.
Ok, they did not promise like you are saying, but they cheated players, do we agree on that? They clearly said, and not only in this video but in their forum too before game released, that cash shop items could not be listed in marketplace for in-game money. They cleverly added this in their product presentation because they wanted their "B2P" label to have a meaning. They wanted to milk money in other words. So they did not promise but they scammed players. Look in the end what product we are getting, same with other regions with the big diference though that in other regions they did not pay for it. p.s. sorry for my english, is not my mother language but they are enough for me to understand if I got scammed or not.
That's what I'm saying they actually said that "if" they implemented this system they would take everything under careful consideration.
That paraphrasing but it does not equate to they would never do this. They actually built in the possibility. The "careful consideration" or whatever language they used is subjective so you discard that. The "if" is the defining word because it means it can be considered. If I can find the interview I'll post the link but I also think it might have been included on one of the interviews here.
edit: this is the quote:
If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
Comments
In BDO the difference between gear is massive especially when you take into consideration accessories. If this was truly a case of allowing others to obtain cash shop items why not let people convert ingame gold into cash shop currency like GW2 does, so they can buy the items without people selling them ingame. They won't do this simply because it is not about letting others obtain the items, it is all about milking those whales who will spend a fortune buying and selling items to buy there way to the top.
It is a sorry day when gamers are condoning this type of practice where rather than play to get better gear its pay to get better gear. Whether they are the best does not matter as they paying real money to be better than what they were and better than a large majority of the playerbase when previously they might not have been. I just can't condone a practice of paying real money to get ahead rather than play the game to get ahead. Just because you have a job does not give you right of passage to be able to pay your way to be competitive. Play the game like everyone else and if you don't have the time to play and be competitive then you're playing the wrong genre or have set your goals way too high.
The stat increase was very negligible in GW2, so it didn't matter much, but in a game like BDO, it could make more of an impact on the balance of power since the game is all about PvP and power, especially regarding guilds. I don't have enough knowledge on the stat imbalance this would cause in BDO though. Unless someone does the math, there's no reason for people to be doomsayers.
When you introduce P2W though, the ones more likely to take advantage of it are those who already have a time investment in the game, which means new players if they want to compete, are going to have to shell out some serious $$ in addition to time and effort in order to compete, and those people with limited time and perhaps less real ability, will have to pay out several orders of magnitude in $$ more.
Before too long, as usually happens in these kinds of games, the amount of money needed by new players to compete with those already established moves beyond the means of the average player.
It becomes all about the money.
l2p
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
p.s. sorry for my english, is not my mother language but they are enough for me to understand if I got scammed or not.
Pets and costumes that make game so much easier, weight & inventory limit that make it all more enjoyable and all that shit are all conveniences that add up and when you had all that shit you could easily slice thought content. It was P2W then already.
And it was.
Meanwhile players in most of these the games who are spending money are dominating every aspect of game play over those who don't.
Brute forcing rng by buying and selling cash shop items (charms mostly) because regrades required so much gold and succeeded so little.
This whole thing doesn't cause me alarm, like I doubt it would affect MY gameplay, but it is kind of a scummy thing to pull. God knows how much money whales would have to drop to buy their way into pen-whatever. It's the principle of it, but apparently this is the way games are going now. I was about to screech at my husband for buying total warhammer because they cut the game down to like 1 or 2 races and started selling the others as dlcs. What. THE FUCK, 50 bucks for the barebones skeleton of a game!?
I hate the gaming industry right now. WOW.
Brilliant.
I might just as well take your post and respond with
"So, what you are saying is that you like to kick puppies?"
Let's be clear about this........In no way did I (or my example) try to indicate that BDO was the only P2W game....Infact your hyperbole is so blatant, it's actually obvious who made what up.
Now, if actually took the time to understand the post and look at the context of my post, you could see that I am indicating that individual game mechanics have a partin how you consider a game P2W.
Looking at GW2's cash shop, it checks all the boxes for P2W. Money to gold conversion, abitlity to indirectly get dam near best is slot gear. Ability to use real money to level a character fully to 80 without stepping foot outside a city.....etc etc...Yet GW2 is not P2W. Why? It has a different set of gear mechanics than BDO.......I do believe I did say that.
If it checks all boxes for "P2W", it is "P2W". You just don't mind it within certain games.
That is what my point was all about.
That's being selective and subjective though. If P2W doesn't have a standard definition, then any game is subject to the ever-changing opinions of each person, as to what constitutes P2W.
"Yet GW2 is not P2W. Why? It has a different set of gear mechanics than BDO.......I do believe I did say that."
Both allow stats to be bought, which increases power. In GW2, people can indirectly buy their way to the best gear while competing against other guilds for PVE content (especially since raids were recently released). Competition isn't solely for PvP.
That paraphrasing but it does not equate to they would never do this. They actually built in the possibility. The "careful consideration" or whatever language they used is subjective so you discard that. The "if" is the defining word because it means it can be considered. If I can find the interview I'll post the link but I also think it might have been included on one of the interviews here.
edit: this is the quote:
- If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
I think it's from a video interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqyaRRKKk5c&feature=youtu.be&t=717Now, my personal opinion is ignore everything but this part " ...If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage ..."
Because that "control" is going to be subjective and players are going to read into that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo