I believe I know where all the whiners come from. It is the simple fact that they are the percentage that suck at mmorpgs, jealous of others, lack patience, simply aren't mmorpg people at heart.... etc.
Wrong, every segment has its share of whiners. If you dont believe me, you might be the whiner in your segment.
I typed "etc" at the end so yeah....nope, I'm not wrong about sh1t. "etc" takes care of all the other segments.(within that percentage I mentioned and within MMORPGS which is what this is all about (I hope ya weren't going off topic)) I'm not going to type out every little thing lol. I've played many mmorpgs and when there is something I dislike, no whining from me. I just uninstall the game or leave it on my computer until I read about some cool update. Not everyone is a whiner, it's just that whiners like to stand tall and proud. They're like: "NOTICE US! WE ARE LEGION! WE ARE GONNA WHINE LIKE B!TCHES UNTIL THE END OF TIME! WE WILL CONTINUE TO SECRETLY PLAY THE GAME WE'RE WHINING ABOUT BUT TELL EVERYONE ELSE WE QUIT!" It's sort of sad, but FORTUNATELY....we are here for them so they don't hurt themselves.
I believe I know where all the whiners come from. It is the simple fact that they are the percentage that suck at mmorpgs, jealous of others, lack patience, simply aren't mmorpg people at heart.... etc.
Wrong, every segment has its share of whiners. If you dont believe me, you might be the whiner in your segment.
I typed "etc" at the end so yeah....nope, I'm not wrong about sh1t. "etc" takes care of all the other segments.(within that percentage I mentioned and within MMORPGS which is what this is all about (I hope ya weren't going off topic)) I'm not going to type out every little thing lol. I've played many mmorpgs and when there is something I dislike, no whining from me. I just uninstall the game or leave it on my computer until I read about some cool update. Not everyone is a whiner, it's just that whiners like to stand tall and proud. They're like: "NOTICE US! WE ARE LEGION! WE ARE GONNA WHINE LIKE B!TCHES UNTIL THE END OF TIME! WE WILL CONTINUE TO SECRETLY PLAY THE GAME WE'RE WHINING ABOUT BUT TELL EVERYONE ELSE WE QUIT!" It's sort of sad, but FORTUNATELY....we are here for them so they don't hurt themselves.
I would point out the irony of your whine about whiners but somehow I think it'd go right over your head.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Hello, Bill. Let's say we were playing Dungeons & Dragons on a tabletop. As we're playing, the DM offers to individually increase everyone's health and stats as long as they keep slipping him a 20 dollar bill. Would you find this to be fun? Is it fair to players who don't have the money?
Using your own analogy, imagine one of the usual D&D crew arrives late because they had to work. They ask if they can enter the game at the same point everyone is up to, and say they will buy everyone pizza as as a thank you.
What you are missing is that MMO's offer cash shop alternatives to cater to a wider market. MMO's typically take a lot of time to progress through, meaning the only people who progress through quickly are those with a lot of time on their hands, who by association don't have a lot of money.
By the same logic, who do you think has the money to blow on meaningless crap and XP boosters in games? Correct, people who work. It really isn't that hard to figure out.
People get so bent out of shape that they spent so long earning their items in games and someone just buys them, but forget that while you were skipping around Azeroth for 17 hours straight the other poor bastard was likely sleeping or at work.
Except your assuming aggressive vertical progression and the need to 'be at the top'... not sure how your D&D sessions were run, but ours were far more about the adventure than the stats, and if someone had a lower level character then the DM compensated (e.g. threw in a few low level goblins with the high level chief).
Now granted most MMOs aren't like this, but that's just poor / lazy design (usually based on a time consuming grind designed to be 'pay to skip'), which is something that should definitely be complained about.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue that MMO's are almost always about a race to the end game. Yes it is all about the experience you have on the way as well, but the fact remains, as I stated, that a lot of people do not have the time required.
Shortening the hours required to reach end game (so that everyone can join in, regardless of free time) causes a problem that can't be fixed - people with a lot of time to play get to end game, get bored, and complain or stop playing altogether. This is already a problem, and is the reason mainstream MMO's need to shit out so many expansions.
What you are calling poor/lazy design is the fact that end game content does not keep you entertained for long enough. If it did, the people who raced there in 2 weeks would still be there, content, playing, 6 months later when others arrived. This simply will not happen in a game with so much of a focus on PvE (which MMO's do mostly). There is only so long you can spend doing scripted content before it becomes boring, and people have become too accustomed to having new content whenever they squawk like baby birds.
MMO's cannot have the path between start and end game shortened, because end game does not hold people's attention long enough. Allowing people to use XP boosts and crap like that is currently the best, imperfect way of handling it. Cosmetic purchases are also just a thing that gives those people something to throw cash at.
If you ask me Sandbox holds the future for end game content that can entertain for long periods, and thempark games have pretty much run their course. But that is another conversation entirely.
This age of everybody needs to let their opinion be known on even matters of which they have no knowledge or experience is wearing so very very thin.
We also live in an age where everybody lies about who they are and what they know.
What's wearing so very, very thin are people who think they have to call out others as they're some kind of expert (see my previous line about lying) or know much about someone they've never met. If you don't like someone's opinion, feel free to quietly walk away.
Gamble boxes should NEVER be the exclusive way to get an item. I don't mind if they exist in a game, BUT the rare item(s) should also be straight up purchasable. And yes, if an item is rare enough out of a gamble box that could be a $250 item. And yes there are people who either don't like gamble boxes or are unlucky enough that they would choose the $250 option vs buying 250 gamble boxes and maybe not getting the item.
Mission completed, a classic rant about what people hate about mmorpgs used to make more clicks and lure attention with the classic "don't matter if you hate what i wrote, just read it and make me important".
I wont comment on these points, they are just personal opinions, not the truth and never will be.
Move on.
Courageous article, Bill. It might also be called "List of top 5 things people do on MMORPG.com". Lets face it, if people listened to you and stopped doing all these, this site would die within a week and you would be looking for a job.
[mod edit] Stop complaining. Yeah, okay buddy. Lets just sit back and let the big MMO Companies without a care in the world milk us for every last nickle we have with lockboxes and cash-shop items rather than churning out well made content.
Lets just all sit back while dishonest companies go back on their word over and over again.
Lets just sit back as carebears ruin, yes ruin, the MMORPG genre with making things so casual everything becomes faceroll.
You don't compete in PvE... are you like... wait you are I pointed that out in the first sentence. If you are apart of any top PvE community/guild you are indeed competing against other players. There is no top raiding guild if there is no top to be apart of. Not to mention in something like in TERA where you are literally competing against other guilds for Crusade rankings to get guild Castles.
[mod edit]
Post edited by Vaross on
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
[mod edit] Stop complaining. Yeah, okay buddy. Lets just sit back and let the big MMO Companies without a care in the world milk us for every last nickle we have with lockboxes and cash-shop items rather than churning out well made content.
Lets just all sit back while dishonest companies go back on their word over and over again.
Lets just sit back as carebears ruin, yes ruin, the MMORPG genre with making things so casual everything becomes faceroll.
You don't compete in PvE... are you like... wait you are I pointed that out in the first sentence. If you are apart of any top PvE community/guild you are indeed competing against other players. There is no top raiding guild if there is no top to be apart of. Not to mention in something like in TERA where you are literally competing against other guilds for Crusade rankings to get guild Castles.
[mod edit]
All the complaining you've done has changed how many MMORPGs to be more favorable to your preferred playstyle?
None right? Hence the point of the OP.
Play them or don't, endlessly complaining changes nothing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
[mod edit] Stop complaining. Yeah, okay buddy. Lets just sit back and let the big MMO Companies without a care in the world milk us for every last nickle we have with lockboxes and cash-shop items rather than churning out well made content.
Lets just all sit back while dishonest companies go back on their word over and over again.
Lets just sit back as carebears ruin, yes ruin, the MMORPG genre with making things so casual everything becomes faceroll.
You don't compete in PvE... are you like... wait you are I pointed that out in the first sentence. If you are apart of any top PvE community/guild you are indeed competing against other players. There is no top raiding guild if there is no top to be apart of. Not to mention in something like in TERA where you are literally competing against other guilds for Crusade rankings to get guild Castles.
[mod edit]
All the complaining you've done has changed how many MMORPGs to be more favorable to your preferred playstyle?
None right? Hence the point of the OP.
Play them or don't, endlessly complaining changes nothing.
Trying to turn the forum into a ghost town?
Post edited by Vaross on
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"This is the way of things, naturally. The eighth console generation started strong on the microtransaction front, showcasing an industry determined to naturalize fee-to-pay elements and bore us with their inclusion enough to where nobody cares to protest.
The saturation has indeed worked, too. Each new game that utilizes microtransactions causes less and less of a stir. Game journalists half-heartedly report on them at best, outright blast anybody complaining about them on social media at worst. The Reddit thread on this issue is full of people aggressively apathetic about it – not just uncaring, but combatively critical of those who do care."
Jim Sterling.
And for the sake of balance:
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
People should never complain,much better to just get sand kicked in your face,stepped on and taken advantage of ,lied to,abused and whatever else you can think of.
When a developer tries to sell a pile of turd,just ask them how much you can buy it for,ask if you can pay them double !! Then go to ask when the next expansion is coming out and PLEASE don't bother to finish it,we want to buy it in ANY state and we won't complain.
While we are at it,we should ask for more websites to join in the sales pitch,we should believe everything they tell us and can you please send us a STAMP that allows us to stamp SUCKER on our forehead,we will be much obliged.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
People should never complain,much better to just get sand kicked in your face,stepped on and taken advantage of ,lied to,abused and whatever else you can think of.
When a developer tries to sell a pile of turd,just ask them how much you can buy it for,ask if you can pay them double !! Then go to ask when the next expansion is coming out and PLEASE don't bother to finish it,we want to buy it in ANY state and we won't complain.
While we are at it,we should ask for more websites to join in the sales pitch,we should believe everything they tell us and can you please send us a STAMP that allows us to stamp SUCKER on our forehead,we will be much obliged.
No, people should not buy products that they find deficient, be it in quality or payment model.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"This is the way of things, naturally. The eighth console generation started strong on the microtransaction front, showcasing an industry determined to naturalize fee-to-pay elements and bore us with their inclusion enough to where nobody cares to protest.
The saturation has indeed worked, too. Each new game that utilizes microtransactions causes less and less of a stir. Game journalists half-heartedly report on them at best, outright blast anybody complaining about them on social media at worst. The Reddit thread on this issue is full of people aggressively apathetic about it – not just uncaring, but combatively critical of those who do care."
Jim Sterling.
And for the sake of balance:
A caveat to that; it's causing more and more players to refer to games as products in their subliminal approach to defending games in general. Essentially doing the dirty PR work for the developers by creating a pretense that games are there to maximize profits over being enjoyable to play.
Yeah. To be fair, people don't like to be reminded of the things they have chosen to forget. I think that's where some of the anti-caring combativeness comes from. Doing the PR dirty work for the publishers is just a byproduct of that.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well, to be fair, "carebear" is more of a server ruleset rather than a type of player, and MMORPGs today are definitely losing their PvP spice because of such rulesets.
This is the perfect opportunity for me to ask the people who like me, cannot stand this new F2P, give me all your money to play our game "revolution". Please put your money to better use and go buy a boardgame. Let's give our money to these game developers! They do care about what we want. Boardgames have come so far in the last 15 years people do not realize that some of them are just as fun as an MMO. You can goto a meetup event, host at your home or at friends home and the fun factor is just incredible! Meetup.com has meetups for pretty much every city and if it doesn't then start one yourself!
I still play MMO's sometimes but with the changes made over the years, I find my self playing boardgames more and more. If you live in Houston like me, we have a boardgame meetup everyday of the week! I host at my house on Fridays and Saturdays so if you live here come on over and have a damn good time! I am, at last count, at 255 games. I have something for everyone.
Look through there and then do a search for a play through, youtube has about 10-15 people who do play throughs so you can watch and see if it interests you before purchasing.
If anyone has any questions please send me a private message and we can talk!
Good article, I have to say though, Look at china's localization of our games and say that isn't basically censorship. Our localization is the same thing, a step just below censorship. But yeah that's business for you, adjust to your market. All hail the $ sign
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Nice read! Regarding the Carebears and Noobs - Not everyone started playing the game as a Pro already. Everyone have to start somewhere right? Be kind to them because you were once a noob too, plus you get a better community if everyone thinks like this.
No, people should not buy products that they find deficient, be it in quality or payment model.
I'm wondering, @Kyleran, would you not criticize the developers and publishers of EVE if something that you perceived to be destructive to the quality and integrity of the game was announced for a future patch? I'm not sure of your answer but I'd honestly be surprised and actually saddened if you would not, knowing your passion for EVE.
Certainly many of us can recognize it may not be that easy to give up, let go, move on, when we have an MMORPG that we connect with passionately, for the various oh so many reasons we do connect with MMORPGs. Moreover, is there really that many MMORPGs that don't have similar monetization issues? Is it not abundantly clear that finding an alternative MMORPG that meets our needs and expectations is uncertain and for many of us even unlikely?
Some will say stop beating a dead horse. And yet others will answer do not go quietly into that good night.
One other point: @Beansnbread astutely referred to this earlier in the thread, about how we might not all be on the same page of what grade of dissent we're referring to in this thread. Hopefully, it's obvious that some of us are kind of owning a pejorative term by wearing it proudly when we suggest that our protestations--our critiques--are merely complaints, that we are mere complainers. But let it be clear that much of the criticism in this thread is aiming higher than commiseration and tantrum, and that it's unclear that the OP admits the difference, at least on his specific list of uncomplainables.
Comments
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Shortening the hours required to reach end game (so that everyone can join in, regardless of free time) causes a problem that can't be fixed - people with a lot of time to play get to end game, get bored, and complain or stop playing altogether. This is already a problem, and is the reason mainstream MMO's need to shit out so many expansions.
What you are calling poor/lazy design is the fact that end game content does not keep you entertained for long enough. If it did, the people who raced there in 2 weeks would still be there, content, playing, 6 months later when others arrived. This simply will not happen in a game with so much of a focus on PvE (which MMO's do mostly). There is only so long you can spend doing scripted content before it becomes boring, and people have become too accustomed to having new content whenever they squawk like baby birds.
MMO's cannot have the path between start and end game shortened, because end game does not hold people's attention long enough. Allowing people to use XP boosts and crap like that is currently the best, imperfect way of handling it. Cosmetic purchases are also just a thing that gives those people something to throw cash at.
If you ask me Sandbox holds the future for end game content that can entertain for long periods, and thempark games have pretty much run their course. But that is another conversation entirely.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
What's wearing so very, very thin are people who think they have to call out others as they're some kind of expert (see my previous line about lying) or know much about someone they've never met. If you don't like someone's opinion, feel free to quietly walk away.
Quietly is the operative word.
~~ postlarval ~~
I wont comment on these points, they are just personal opinions, not the truth and never will be.
Move on.
Crowfall - LiF: MMO - Darkfall: New Dawn
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I kinda think someone goofed it
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Lets just all sit back while dishonest companies go back on their word over and over again.
Lets just sit back as carebears ruin, yes ruin, the MMORPG genre with making things so casual everything becomes faceroll.
You don't compete in PvE... are you like... wait you are I pointed that out in the first sentence. If you are apart of any top PvE community/guild you are indeed competing against other players. There is no top raiding guild if there is no top to be apart of. Not to mention in something like in TERA where you are literally competing against other guilds for Crusade rankings to get guild Castles.
[mod edit]
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
None right? Hence the point of the OP.
Play them or don't, endlessly complaining changes nothing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"This is the way of things, naturally. The eighth console generation started strong on the microtransaction front, showcasing an industry determined to naturalize fee-to-pay elements and bore us with their inclusion enough to where nobody cares to protest.
The saturation has indeed worked, too. Each new game that utilizes microtransactions causes less and less of a stir. Game journalists half-heartedly report on them at best, outright blast anybody complaining about them on social media at worst. The Reddit thread on this issue is full of people aggressively apathetic about it – not just uncaring, but combatively critical of those who do care."
Jim Sterling.
And for the sake of balance:
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
When a developer tries to sell a pile of turd,just ask them how much you can buy it for,ask if you can pay them double !!
Then go to ask when the next expansion is coming out and PLEASE don't bother to finish it,we want to buy it in ANY state and we won't complain.
While we are at it,we should ask for more websites to join in the sales pitch,we should believe everything they tell us and can you please send us a STAMP that allows us to stamp SUCKER on our forehead,we will be much obliged.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
/mic drop
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I still play MMO's sometimes but with the changes made over the years, I find my self playing boardgames more and more. If you live in Houston like me, we have a boardgame meetup everyday of the week! I host at my house on Fridays and Saturdays so if you live here come on over and have a damn good time! I am, at last count, at 255 games. I have something for everyone.
Here is are meetup link: https://www.meetup.com/North-Houston-Boardgamers/
Here is a link to the current top 100 ranked by boardgamegeek: https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame
Look through there and then do a search for a play through, youtube has about 10-15 people who do play throughs so you can watch and see if it interests you before purchasing.
If anyone has any questions please send me a private message and we can talk!
I am so good, I backstabbed your face!
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Certainly many of us can recognize it may not be that easy to give up, let go, move on, when we have an MMORPG that we connect with passionately, for the various oh so many reasons we do connect with MMORPGs. Moreover, is there really that many MMORPGs that don't have similar monetization issues? Is it not abundantly clear that finding an alternative MMORPG that meets our needs and expectations is uncertain and for many of us even unlikely?
Some will say stop beating a dead horse. And yet others will answer do not go quietly into that good night.
One other point: @Beansnbread astutely referred to this earlier in the thread, about how we might not all be on the same page of what grade of dissent we're referring to in this thread. Hopefully, it's obvious that some of us are kind of owning a pejorative term by wearing it proudly when we suggest that our protestations--our critiques--are merely complaints, that we are mere complainers. But let it be clear that much of the criticism in this thread is aiming higher than commiseration and tantrum, and that it's unclear that the OP admits the difference, at least on his specific list of uncomplainables.
complaining of whining is whining in itself.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.