I wouldn't mind them removing the concept of PvP Servers and PvE Servers I don't really care for that. Regular Servers, Problem solved. Go to PvP flagged zones, you have to flag yourself if you want to find players to pwn. Its not that hard really. As a pvper I really don't see much of a point in a PvP server, I really don't.
It separates the player base and I want to feel like everyone is contributing to the game, contributing to the world, not just for themselves.
In theory what you propose seems "fair" balance but we know what happens and why pve and pvp players don't like that.
We start with zones that have pvp enabled on them, then we get similar zones with dungeons, rare materials etc etc thus forcing pve players to go there if they want the best gear. And suddenly from fair it becomes the same crap we have now on forcing people to pvp.
Well then don't design pvp zones that way then. Problem Solved. The SWG Server way is the way to go.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
You need separate servers. I enjoy playing on a PvP server BUT I have observed many of those who play on PvP servers enjoy ruining other people's gaming experience and will go through tons of effort to accomplish that. It's bizarre, I can't fathom the motivation behind it, not likeable people BUT the sense of danger keeps me coming back.
agreed.
There are a lot of great ideas on paper and some of them even work in implentation given specific communities but in general as a pve player I perfer to flat out stay away from pvp folks. I understand some of the game play mechanics are fanastic and I find it compelling as well, I also understand many pvp players are fine people however over all its just too toxic for my tastes.
which ironically is why I come to message boards???
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You need separate servers. I enjoy playing on a PvP server BUT I have observed many of those who play on PvP servers enjoy ruining other people's gaming experience and will go through tons of effort to accomplish that.
I respectfully disagree. I mean if someone could put up some statistics of the type of pvpers out there whether they prefer PvP Servers, PvE Servers, No PvP/PvE Servers but instead Regular Servers(And as far as labeling goes its just the name of the server and region/timezone). Those statistics would shed some light.
I'd vote for no PvP and no PvE Servers without hesitation. If designed the right way it would work.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
You need separate servers. I enjoy playing on a PvP server BUT I have observed many of those who play on PvP servers enjoy ruining other people's gaming experience and will go through tons of effort to accomplish that.
I respectfully disagree. I mean if someone could put up some statistics of the type of pvpers out there whether they prefer PvP Servers, PvE Servers, No PvP/PvE Servers but instead Regular Servers(And as far as labeling goes its just the name of the server and region/timezone). Those statistics would shed some light.
I'd vote for no PvP and no PvE Servers without hesitation. If designed the right way it would work.
You should allow people a voice on the type of server they want to play on. However, you should never allow people to dictate the existence of a server type that they would never want to play on in the first place.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
The problem that I usually find with pvp only servers compared to pve servers is that pvp servers are honestly not treated differently. Most game with such servers tend to just treat them exactly like pve servers only with the option to attack other players when its honestly not as simple as that to be good.
Criminal/undesirable behavior was treated as harshly in-game as in real life. A Serious consequence system.
People engaged in a life of murder and theft SHOULD be scared of the guards. No town access without a disguise...if someone blows your cover, you are in deep shit. If you surrender, your toon is locked up in a prison for hours, days, even weeks..depending on how vile your behavior has been.
Like real life, people should think twice about their actions as there are very real, and very painful consequences.
Then we can have some decent PVP gameplay whilst discouraging asshattery. PVP without consequences is why we have our own servers off in the corner.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
You should allow people a voice on the type of server they want to play on. However, you should never allow people to dictate the existence of a server type that they would never want to play on in the first place.
Thats 100 percent true. There is an audience out there who don't care for PvP/PvE/RP Servers which includes me. I'm not that picky to say that any mmo out there that has PvP/PvE/RP servers means I'm never going to play their game cause they decide to acknowledge the existence of those server types.
The flaw in that concept is clear though, it separates the player base. Imagine 100 million doctors working in another dimension but there are no such thing as doctors in our dimension. I want everyone to contribute to the game and to stop alienating each other.
This may break the wall between pvpers and pvers. I bet you the pvers made the pvpers pay for the wall and vice versa.
Jokes aside, I understand the concerns of PvE peeps and PvP peeps. I guess the hardcore PvP people who want it toggled 24/7 will be left out tho but what percentage of the pvp population do those people take up is the question.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
PvE players and PvP players don't even enjoy the same things in MMO's. The only reason a developer tries to include both on the same server is to give PvP players easy targets. It's really that simple. The only way you will make PvE players happy in an MMO with any sort of PvP is either A - safe zones or B - PvP flag system and we don't see many PvP players promoting those types of games. I wonder why that is.
I for one prefer flag systems, as well as non combatant options (neutral standing being available).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I will be honest at one point in my life I played mostly on PVP servers but as I have aged I have pretty much left that behind. Flagging systems don't really work that well on most games unless their is a massive timer for flagging and unflagging and a warning system that shows you are flagging. It just creates another system to be able to grief someone whether they are PVP oriented or not. It is better having the two groups split between their own servers. This allows people that just want to quest and craft to do so without interruption. The reason you don't see many people on PVP servers is that they don't want it. A majority of players don't enjoy that type of play and it is why there are always at least 2 or 3 non-PVP servers to ever 1 PVP server.
Keep Darkfall New Dawn on your radar. One of their big goals is to make darkfall appealing and fun for PvE players with a good localized economy with local markets similar to eve or albion, a meaningful alignment system where you aren't ganked by your racial allies, and player controlled territories with varying levels of safety. Basically they are really going for a game where PvE players (like me) are comfortable playing in a full loot PvP game. So there is still that fun risk of death but the pain is lessened because you can resupply quickly with a good local economy. Won't be ready for another 6-7 months or so tho but they are making good progress on the indev server.
PvP players need PvE players. PvE players do not need nor want PvP players. It is better for most of your community - the PvE side - that the PvP players go off to stay in their own little corner.
You are right, PvP players need PvE Players but PvE players dont need PvP players, which is why free for all PvP servers die a slow painful death after the PvE players leave and the PvP players are left to cannibalize each other until the server dies.
What value does FFA PvP bring to the virtual world game experience?
A material sink for the economy. Items are lost or break in combat so are constantly in need from crafters. New Dawn's latest patch gives extra exp if you are doing more damage to harder mobs. Encouraging players to bring good gear out to fight PvE mobs and to also fight challenging mobs to level up quicker. Helps good gear get lost and used up in the world instead of being hoarded in peoples banks and only getting used for sieges.
Actually it is my preferred method of playing in a game. Keep the L33t PvPer types on the PvP server and leave the rest of CAREBEARS ALONE. I wish more games would Have Open world PvP.
Fixed
Thats why games like Aion and Tera Lasted since they actually have Open world pvp, as a pvper i can Run around 24/7 without getting bored , since there are Preys everywhere!
On a side note most games should have rewards in doing pvp, like you get some kind of points just like Abyss Points or something similar and you can spend that in gear/potions/weapons. That way it would encourage everyone to participate.
Whats the point of doing an INSTANCED DUNGEON 24/7? and killing brainless AI's that do the same exact fighting pattern lol!
A Giant "Mega Server" is the answer. Just add channels if it gets too crowded , and Put a system where if the Initiator of the fight has a level way higher than the carebear, the said carebear gets a massive buff of some sorts so at least they can fight back.
Doing separate server is proven to fail in the end, as most games thin out population wise after 3 or so months, having a megaserver somewhat prevents it than having multiple DEAD server that ends up getting merged later on anyways, makes everyone SATISFIED!
Actually it is my preferred method of playing in a game. Keep the L33t PvPer types on the PvP server and leave the rest of CAREBEARS ALONE. I wish more games would Have Open world PvP.
Fixed
Thats why games like Aion and Tera Lasted since they actually have Open world pvp, as a pvper i can Run around 24/7 without getting bored , since there are Preys everywhere!
On a side note most games should have rewards in doing pvp, like you get some kind of points just like Abyss Points or something similar and you can spend that in gear/potions/weapons. That way it would encourage everyone to participate.
Whats the point of doing an INSTANCED DUNGEON 24/7? and killing brainless AI's that do the same exact fighting pattern lol!
Says the guy that proudly post youtube videos of himself (and guild) hacking in Aion.
Anyways, PvE and PvP should be on seperate servers. Not everyone likes the same things, and shouldn't have to be subjected to it. When you make open world pvp on all servers the majority of a games population will leave.
PvP players need PvE players. PvE players do not need nor want PvP players. It is better for most of your community - the PvE side - that the PvP players go off to stay in their own little corner.
PvPs don't need PVE if there are competent rules in place.
I think you hit the nail on the head of why it's better for everyone to have separate servers. I don't imagine those that want full loot OWPvP, especially in a sandbox environment, want rules placed on them but rather make and enforce the rules amongst themselves. Since they are all there to PvP, those who would gank are ganking those that already like PvP and will see it as an expansion of content rather than a hindrance from it, as a PvEer would see it.
MMORPG are an investment and adventure. This is why PvP while popular never seems to thrive long in pure might makes right situation.
The only one a who like that really are play to crush hardcore types who are into ganking.
You then have those who want to build kingdoms and want PvP and wars but feel random murder should he more rare.
Then you have the dabblers. These are probably the most numerous. People who want to PvP sometimes but most of the times they just want to PvE. They are unlikely to play on a PVP because they don't want to be ganked and don't want to invest on PvP server. Again MMORPG are an investment vs. MOBA or FPS that you lose nothing and aren't hindered in gameplay.
Bad rule set starts with just might makes right IMO. Ganking will drive away dabblers instantly and will eventually drive away kingdom builders. Some of the Hardcore will leave because they just want to gank and the server population has dropped to nothing so there hardly is anyone left.
You seem to still be making a claim for seperate servers by your last paragraph. Anyone who decides to roll on a PvP server will know what they are in for and should not be scared off as easily even if they are dabbles. What you've described is what happens when trying to put too many different types of fish in the same pond. Providing feed for all mixes it and only a portion that like the mixture enjoy it. Seperate the ponds and provide a more focused food I say.
Also, the mixture you describe can still happen on the PvE server. For those who want no holds bared PvP why remove that option?
I'd much prefer one server. But these games aren't willing to do what it takes to remove, or drastically reduce, rampant PKing, which is to put a real Justice System in. Something that works. Or alternately, a system that depends on a social order of things and gives players an incentive to defend against that sort of lawless, chaotic, unrealistic, constant "king of the hill" stuff.
So, assuming someone makes a game I want to play (and I've become much more hard to please since I've found I don't need an MMO anymore), I'll stay away from that sort of PvP. And I love good PvP with meaning and not stalking me at all times.
I dont think that would work well.
The end result would be pvp gankers who are unhappy because their toon is permanently in jail, PvE and territorial pvp players unhappy while the gankers were not in jail and when they are in jail its as if the system didnt exist in the first place. leaving a lot of code written for nothing
The point is that you really don't want those grief types in a game like I'm suggesting. They should be unhappy and either leave or change their play style.
The way you do that is you allow the Justice System to actually do harm to that grief character, weakening them to make them less and less effective. In that way, if they continue they will turn their character into a newb skill level and never be able to get ahead. On the other side, you are rewarding the victims. They get their justice, and they are part of the bigger social sphere in that action. There's also monetary-gear reward flowing their way instead of away from them. They remain happy.
The ultimate goal is to have a game where any PvP is allowed, but grief (or crime) is minimal because it doesn't pay.
But no one seems to want this. That's ok with me. I'm just saying it's possible, and if someone did it in an otherwise great game that would be my preference. So we can continue with games divided (and less meaningful). Doesn't bother me one bit.
I guess you haven't played Age Of Wushu which is also made back Snail Games.
Actually it is my preferred method of playing in a game. Keep the L33t PvPer types on the PvP server and leave the rest of CAREBEARS ALONE. I wish more games would Have Open world PvP.
Fixed
Thats why games like Aion and Tera Lasted since they actually have Open world pvp, as a pvper i can Run around 24/7 without getting bored , since there are Preys everywhere!
On a side note most games should have rewards in doing pvp, like you get some kind of points just like Abyss Points or something similar and you can spend that in gear/potions/weapons. That way it would encourage everyone to participate.
Whats the point of doing an INSTANCED DUNGEON 24/7? and killing brainless AI's that do the same exact fighting pattern lol!
Says the guy that proudly post youtube videos of himself (and guild) hacking in Aion.
Anyways, PvE and PvP should be on seperate servers. Not everyone likes the same things, and shouldn't have to be subjected to it. When you make open world pvp on all servers the majority of a games population will leave.
Hey! Wassup guy! you never cease to reply to me whenever I post here lol! , it's been what now like 6 months? Idk last time I posted was when We were talking about Tree of Savior!
Anyhow I just recently quit Tree of Savior was a fun game!
I really don't think any of these PVP players shouting from the roof in this thread actually know anything about Snail Games.
They are bringing two new mmo's out over the next 12 months. One of these mmo's is a total PVP game with PVE but it's all contested. The other mmo is the very game that the PVP players are crying in this thread why they have sperate servers.
It's not the PVE players that are throwing there toys out of the pram in this thread it's the PVP players who claim that they don't need PVE players, lol really!
I suggest you PVP players who are not happy with the server set up wait for Age Of Wushu 2.
Snail Games is not a western company so they don't need to count on Western mmo players buying they're game. Yes they want to bring the game to the western market but they are not under any pressure to change it because western PVP players are not happy about servers.
Age Of Wushu at it's peak had 18 million players. If the western PVP players don't like the server set up in Dnl then fuck.
I think that most players are in between. This system still leaves room for sanctioned PvP like guild wars, gives protection and or justice to the other players. But it adds that elusive "realism" of crime and instant confrontation based on reason and meaning. I know, I know, you can't see how this can be done even if you could see the benefit.
Says who? And for those in between, they can play a pve game today, and pvp game tomorrow. There is no need to do both at the same time in the same game.
And "realism" .. really? I thought the point of games is to escape realism. Otherwise why are we playing wizards and dragons instead of accountants and insurance salesman?
Criminal/undesirable behavior was treated as harshly in-game as in real life. A Serious consequence system.
People engaged in a life of murder and theft SHOULD be scared of the guards. No town access without a disguise...if someone blows your cover, you are in deep shit. If you surrender, your toon is locked up in a prison for hours, days, even weeks..depending on how vile your behavior has been.
Like real life, people should think twice about their actions as there are very real, and very painful consequences.
Then we can have some decent PVP gameplay whilst discouraging asshattery. PVP without consequences is why we have our own servers off in the corner.
This is exactly what they mentioned doing in Chronicles of Elyria. If you have been following the game, they mentioned having serious consequences as well as the use of a disguise. I think they also mentioned something like having a wanted board for offenders, but I wonder if they will further encourage PvP'ers. They also said it could be costly, and it will affect your reputation in the game.
I believe this could be a way to avoid ganking (in particular), as killing another player is considered a serious offense. From my understanding, they are allowing this for the sake of role-playing, and it will only be beneficial to kill another player if it is worth the consequences. Of course, this is all hearsay, but as a person who prefers PvE, I could accept an "all-in-one server population" if a justice system was implemented.
Games have tried having a justice system (i.e., ArcheAge), and that was a complete joke. This may not prevent ganking completely because in another thread I mentioned this, and someone said that this would not stop them from killing indiscriminately.
"I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
There are a lot of great ideas on paper and some of them even work in implentation given specific communities but in general as a pve player I perfer to flat out stay away from pvp folks. I understand some of the game play mechanics are fanastic and I find it compelling as well, I also understand many pvp players are fine people however over all its just too toxic for my tastes.
which ironically is why I come to message boards???
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'd vote for no PvP and no PvE Servers without hesitation. If designed the right way it would work.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
Criminal/undesirable behavior was treated as harshly in-game as in real life. A Serious consequence system.
People engaged in a life of murder and theft SHOULD be scared of the guards. No town access without a disguise...if someone blows your cover, you are in deep shit. If you surrender, your toon is locked up in a prison for hours, days, even weeks..depending on how vile your behavior has been.
Like real life, people should think twice about their actions as there are very real, and very painful consequences.
Then we can have some decent PVP gameplay whilst discouraging asshattery. PVP without consequences is why we have our own servers off in the corner.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
The flaw in that concept is clear though, it separates the player base. Imagine 100 million doctors working in another dimension but there are no such thing as doctors in our dimension. I want everyone to contribute to the game and to stop alienating each other.
This may break the wall between pvpers and pvers. I bet you the pvers made the pvpers pay for the wall and vice versa.
Jokes aside, I understand the concerns of PvE peeps and PvP peeps. I guess the hardcore PvP people who want it toggled 24/7 will be left out tho but what percentage of the pvp population do those people take up is the question.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
On a side note most games should have rewards in doing pvp, like you get some kind of points just like Abyss Points or something similar and you can spend that in gear/potions/weapons. That way it would encourage everyone to participate.
Whats the point of doing an INSTANCED DUNGEON 24/7? and killing brainless AI's that do the same exact fighting pattern lol!
A Giant "Mega Server" is the answer. Just add channels if it gets too crowded , and Put a system where if the Initiator of the fight has a level way higher than the carebear, the said carebear gets a massive buff of some sorts so at least they can fight back.
Doing separate server is proven to fail in the end, as most games thin out population wise after 3 or so months, having a megaserver somewhat prevents it than having multiple DEAD server that ends up getting merged later on anyways, makes everyone SATISFIED!
Anyways, PvE and PvP should be on seperate servers. Not everyone likes the same things, and shouldn't have to be subjected to it. When you make open world pvp on all servers the majority of a games population will leave.
Also, the mixture you describe can still happen on the PvE server. For those who want no holds bared PvP why remove that option?
I guess you haven't played Age Of Wushu which is also made back Snail Games.
Anyhow I just recently quit Tree of Savior was a fun game!
A video of me being the TOP Dps and Pvper on Klaipeda Server!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5xM81NA6w
Moving on to the next MMO coming out this OCTOBER REVELATION ONLINE! where gear and PvP matters!
They are bringing two new mmo's out over the next 12 months. One of these mmo's is a total PVP game with PVE but it's all contested. The other mmo is the very game that the PVP players are crying in this thread why they have sperate servers.
It's not the PVE players that are throwing there toys out of the pram in this thread it's the PVP players who claim that they don't need PVE players, lol really!
I suggest you PVP players who are not happy with the server set up wait for Age Of Wushu 2.
Snail Games is not a western company so they don't need to count on Western mmo players buying they're game. Yes they want to bring the game to the western market but they are not under any pressure to change it because western PVP players are not happy about servers.
Age Of Wushu at it's peak had 18 million players. If the western PVP players don't like the server set up in Dnl then fuck.
And "realism" .. really? I thought the point of games is to escape realism. Otherwise why are we playing wizards and dragons instead of accountants and insurance salesman?
So that is a win over everyone on the same server then...
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"