so are all of you enjoying the game? wait....what? people have been talking about how great this game will be for years now. no ones played it? then how do they know? ohhh, everyones seen all the great footage and followed the dev info. well then i need to get on board with this game. surely it will be as great as the devs tell us. they would never try to make it look and sound better than it will be. they wouldnt do that................would they?
You will find a thread below talking about 1+ million manhours of playing SC so far.
According to your beliefs there is no reason they shouldn't have several solar systems in the next major update. But will it happen?
But there is no several solar systems on the next major update? Have you saw the roadmap? Multiple solar systems for one 4.0 update? What's that? End of 2017, 2018? As the last item of the shared roadmap... I don't think the message is that they're any close to release that. O.o
so are all of you enjoying the game? wait....what? people have been talking about how great this game will be for years now. no ones played it? then how do they know? ohhh, everyones seen all the great footage and followed the dev info. well then i need to get on board with this game. surely it will be as great as the devs tell us. they would never try to make it look and sound better than it will be. they wouldnt do that................would they?
You will find a thread below talking about 1+ million manhours of playing SC so far.
It stands to reason, that many in these forums, and those throughout the internet have made up their minds that the game will fail. So how many of you are DS alts?
Yes, CIG have done some bone-headed things, but I'm no where near the point of contributing it to malice. Remember Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity," or "Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding."
It stands to reason, that many in these forums, and those throughout the internet have made up their minds that the game will fail. So how many of you are DS alts?
Yes, CIG have done some bone-headed things, but I'm no where near the point of contributing it to malice. Remember Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity," or "Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding."
That would make sense if they didnt benefit from all their mistakes. So far every single mistake they have made has turned out to benefit their wallets. And that just doesn't smell right.
That would make sense if they didnt benefit from all their mistakes. So far every single mistake they have made has turned out to benefit their wallets. And that just doesn't smell right.
And what do they do with that money in that wallet ?
Spend it on developing Star Citizen. Paying wages of their employees. No wasting 50 % of it on a marketing campaign.
It stands to reason, that many in these forums, and those throughout the internet have made up their minds that the game will fail. So how many of you are DS alts?
Yes, CIG have done some bone-headed things, but I'm no where near the point of contributing it to malice. Remember Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity," or "Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding."
Its not so much that people want it to fail, but that they get tired of hearing how great all these alpha games are then when/if they see the light of day they fall way short.....Factor in the amount of KS money these guys have been given and its only going to make it that much harder because the stakes are higher now.
Anyone remember the Ironclad TOS that they enforced this year? the one so anti-consumer we had news story about it? And how we got people saying CIG was using it as a hammer to deny all refunds? Why did CIG stop that? Oh, it was right after a story broke when a backer complained to the DCBA and Attorney General! Thank god for him right?
Anyone remember the Ironclad TOS that they enforced this year? the one so anti-consumer we had news story about it? And how we got people saying CIG was using it as a hammer to deny all refunds? Why did CIG stop that? Oh, it was right after a story broke when a backer complained to the DCBA and Attorney General! Thank god for him right?
Yes, he must have been the veritable Rosa Parks of the video game world. There is no way this could have been sheer coincidence. Are you "the one"? Are you the person? The more you put this person on a pedestal, the more I get the feeling that you're actually them because of the rabid indulgence in the subject. I really don't know how many more times I have to say it. I actually contacted the DCBA personally and there is no legal action pending against CIG and there have been MANY complaints registered with them and they have all been settled amicably without the need for legal action. So keep toting this person as a folk hero of some sort, but they did nothing special or groundbreaking that others hadn't already done. Also, it's obvious that this massive outcry hasn't spurred any legal action, either, so I'm not sure what the fuss is all about, it's nothing that these people don't deal with on a daily basis. I'll wait for the official court filing before I get all keyed up. Until then, it's very yawn-worthy information. It's no more or less interesting than lodging a complaint with the BBB.
So, did you find out if there were any ongoing investigations about it? Oh, well, they probably wouldn't have told you, even if there were.
What I like about that case is the CIG offer of about $1000 back on his $2800. If they are telling the truth there, their claim was that they'd spent around 65% of his investment already. Hmn....
Still doesn't absolve them of not having much from Squadron 42 other than an 'Oh, we're delayed again' notice for the convention. Absolutely doubt that was their original brilliant plan. Now I don't trust them much: My thought is that what they did have must have been pretty bad, not to trot it out.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Well you only have his word that he's done those things, there's no proof as such.
The OTHER proof is that no official case number has ever been mentioned. One could check out publically available Information on such a case on the official homepage of the government organizations with a known case number. And faked case numbers therefore dont cut it ;-)
Well you only have his word that he's done those things, there's no proof as such.
Of course, there's nothing stopping YOU from making the same investigations as @CrazKanuk claims to have done.
But it's probably more convenient if you don't check the truth of his claims, because then you can just dismiss them as lies !
So far, nobody has shown any proof that the DCBA or any federal agency have an investigation in progress. All we have is them admitting they have received complaints. They undoubtedly also receive thousands of complaints from a wide spectrum of nutjobs. Email is free after all.
So far the "government agencies" have not found any reason to start formal investigations, despite the complaints that they've received for the past year or two. But we'll probably be hearing about it any day now, lol
Well you only have his word that he's done those things, there's no proof as such.
The OTHER proof is that no official case number has ever been mentioned. One could check out publically available Information on such a case on the official homepage of the government organizations with a known case number. And faked case numbers therefore dont cut it ;-)
Have fun
It not easy to get a case from a situation like this. He could pay himself 20 mil a year as salary and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Because its under "developing a game". So long as they keep working on the game they are justified in anything they do with the money. No matter how wasteful or eccentric. And legally they don't have to refund anything if the person who wants the refund doesn't have a good reason. They can't just say its taking too long but they have to prove that somehow they were deceived.
@silverreign goes on implying suicide talk to someone else (cause that's how an argumented discussion works). Congratulations for that.
@craftseeker goes on agreeing that that PG Planets are a lie because they don't have more than one planet. ???? Care to explain this statement, or is it just <agree with anything negative towards SC>?
It's simple enough. If your objective is to be able to generate a large number of procedural generated anything, then a system that can only be shown to generate one is either inherently flawed or so incomplete that it should not be shown outside of the development team.
As it has been shown to journalists - generating various types of planets ....
it might not be as inherently flawed or incomplete as you seem to think.
Have fun
I don't know much about Star Citizen but as long as they can avoid the procedural generation traps; missions being the same, worlds looking eerily similar, a large universe just for the sake of there being a large universe, then it will be okay in my book.
Of course, there's nothing stopping YOU from making the same investigations as @CrazKanuk claims to have done.
But it's probably more convenient if you don't check the truth of his claims, because then you can just dismiss them as lies !
So far, nobody has shown any proof that the DCBA or any federal agency have an investigation in progress. All we have is them admitting they have received complaints. They undoubtedly also receive thousands of complaints from a wide spectrum of nutjobs. Email is free after all.
So far the "government agencies" have not found any reason to start formal investigations, despite the complaints that they've received for the past year or two. But we'll probably be hearing about it any day now, lol
The point you're missing is that I am not contending Crazkanuk's claim. I am contending Erillion's use of the claim.
I don't know much about Star Citizen but as long as they can avoid the procedural generation traps; missions being the same, worlds looking eerily similar, a large universe just for the sake of there being a large universe, then it will be okay in my book.
That is what I like about their approach. Unlike ED or NMS it's not PG Driven, it is artist driven. Not attempting 1:1 scales, not attempting to generate a whole universe for the sake of impress by size.
How it is the artist the sets how is the planet going to be like, the PG fills it in and it looks great. What they need to do on this aspect is pull off more and more assets and artwork to make stuff feel unique and interesting to poke around.
And then it comes the real challenge that is non-repetitive gameplay events, but I don't think any game can avoid that on the scale that it is set upon, obviously they can roll out more content over time, but it will always fall upon repetition.
Well you only have his word that he's done those things, there's no proof as such.
Of course, there's nothing stopping YOU from making the same investigations as @CrazKanuk claims to have done.
But it's probably more convenient if you don't check the truth of his claims, because then you can just dismiss them as lies !
So far, nobody has shown any proof that the DCBA or any federal agency have an investigation in progress. All we have is them admitting they have received complaints. They undoubtedly also receive thousands of complaints from a wide spectrum of nutjobs. Email is free after all.
So far the "government agencies" have not found any reason to start formal investigations, despite the complaints that they've received for the past year or two. But we'll probably be hearing about it any day now, lol
Also, just as a tag-on, if you search up CIG on BBB.org they've had 37 complaints in the past 3 years, 28 in the last 12 months. That is hardly pandemic and there are, literally, thousands of companies receiving that number of complaints on an annual basis. I'm not sure of how far-reaching bbb.org is, but even if it's national, what does that mean? How many complaints has the DCBA REALLY received, since it's local? I doubt it's enough to launch any sort of official investigation. This is what I received as an initial response to my inquiry regarding this "case" that was blowing up the universe.
Unfortunately, I do not recognize the case number you have referenced 699667 in our database.
I also searched for a complaint under your name, but I was unable to locate a complaint in our database.
We have received complaints against Cloud Imperium Games LLC, unfortunately we are unable to discuss a complaint with a third party without authorization from the consumer who filed the complaint.
The Department of Consumer and Business Affairs serves consumers, businesses, and communities through education, advocacy, and complaint resolution. Our mission is to create a fair and vibrant marketplace for consumers and businesses. To reach our mission, we: · Educate consumers about their rights and responsibilities · Mediate disputes and investigate consumer fraud complaints · Assist small business owners · Enforce L.A. County’s minimum wage ordinance
Our services are free and easy to use.
If you filed a complaint against this business, please contact me at (xxx) xxx-xxxx with your DCBA case number to discuss your complaint.
So for someone who is, supposedly, the Supervising Investigator to not recognize a case number, I found it VERY interesting. I did contact her and discuss the situation as a whole further and she did refer me to the custodian of records. You are able to make a request for the initial complaints related to CIG, if you want, because that portion is public record. However, the resolution or status of the complaints is NOT public record. If someone else wants to follow-up with the custodian of records, I can send along his information. However, based on my conversation with the Investigator, there is a fee involved with getting the records (of course), which is why I didn't go any further with it. PM me if you want the contact details for the custodian of records.
I am 100% confident that if there was an "on-going investigation" complete with a case number etc. - being carried out by any goverment agency anywhere in the world - someone out there would have posted details.
I just can't see trolls missing the opportunity to shout it from the roof tops, the trees, and the mountains.
@silverreign goes on implying suicide talk to someone else (cause that's how an argumented discussion works). Congratulations for that.
@craftseeker goes on agreeing that that PG Planets are a lie because they don't have more than one planet. ???? Care to explain this statement, or is it just <agree with anything negative towards SC>?
It's simple enough. If your objective is to be able to generate a large number of procedurally generated anything, then a system that can only be shown to generate one is either inherently flawed or so incomplete that it should not be shown outside of the development team.
This is indeed how you would do it if this was being done by the likes of EA, UbiSoft, Activision etc. and was internally funded.
Crowd funded and the chatter of "nothing is happening", "show me the code", "is this what you call open development" etc. meant that - for example:
The PG when first released was one planet and had no fauna and flower layering. And as a result there were comments that the graphics were dire etc. Now things have moved on.
I am sure they would have liked to have done what you suggested but the bottomline is this is how it is. And as I said a while back it will be tantamount to watching paint dry.
Comments
Have fun
Yes, CIG have done some bone-headed things, but I'm no where near the point of contributing it to malice. Remember Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity," or "Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding."
Spend it on developing Star Citizen. Paying wages of their employees. No wasting 50 % of it on a marketing campaign.
Have fun
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
Yes, he must have been the veritable Rosa Parks of the video game world. There is no way this could have been sheer coincidence. Are you "the one"? Are you the person? The more you put this person on a pedestal, the more I get the feeling that you're actually them because of the rabid indulgence in the subject. I really don't know how many more times I have to say it. I actually contacted the DCBA personally and there is no legal action pending against CIG and there have been MANY complaints registered with them and they have all been settled amicably without the need for legal action. So keep toting this person as a folk hero of some sort, but they did nothing special or groundbreaking that others hadn't already done. Also, it's obvious that this massive outcry hasn't spurred any legal action, either, so I'm not sure what the fuss is all about, it's nothing that these people don't deal with on a daily basis. I'll wait for the official court filing before I get all keyed up. Until then, it's very yawn-worthy information. It's no more or less interesting than lodging a complaint with the BBB.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
So, did you find out if there were any ongoing investigations about it? Oh, well, they probably wouldn't have told you, even if there were.
What I like about that case is the CIG offer of about $1000 back on his $2800. If they are telling the truth there, their claim was that they'd spent around 65% of his investment already. Hmn....
Still doesn't absolve them of not having much from Squadron 42 other than an 'Oh, we're delayed again' notice for the convention. Absolutely doubt that was their original brilliant plan. Now I don't trust them much: My thought is that what they did have must have been pretty bad, not to trot it out.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Btw, I call it blatantly copying.
And no, CIG is no drug cartel or international arms dealer ring .... government organizations WOULD freely tell about ongoing investigations.
Have fun
Have fun
But it's probably more convenient if you don't check the truth of his claims, because then you can just dismiss them as lies !
So far, nobody has shown any proof that the DCBA or any federal agency have an investigation in progress. All we have is them admitting they have received complaints. They undoubtedly also receive thousands of complaints from a wide spectrum of nutjobs. Email is free after all.
So far the "government agencies" have not found any reason to start formal investigations, despite the complaints that they've received for the past year or two. But we'll probably be hearing about it any day now, lol
I don't know much about Star Citizen but as long as they can avoid the procedural generation traps; missions being the same, worlds looking eerily similar, a large universe just for the sake of there being a large universe, then it will be okay in my book.
This is not a game.
The point you're missing is that I am not contending Crazkanuk's claim. I am contending Erillion's use of the claim.
Unlike ED or NMS it's not PG Driven, it is artist driven. Not attempting 1:1 scales, not attempting to generate a whole universe for the sake of impress by size.
How it is the artist the sets how is the planet going to be like, the PG fills it in and it looks great. What they need to do on this aspect is pull off more and more assets and artwork to make stuff feel unique and interesting to poke around.
And then it comes the real challenge that is non-repetitive gameplay events, but I don't think any game can avoid that on the scale that it is set upon, obviously they can roll out more content over time, but it will always fall upon repetition.
Also, just as a tag-on, if you search up CIG on BBB.org they've had 37 complaints in the past 3 years, 28 in the last 12 months. That is hardly pandemic and there are, literally, thousands of companies receiving that number of complaints on an annual basis. I'm not sure of how far-reaching bbb.org is, but even if it's national, what does that mean? How many complaints has the DCBA REALLY received, since it's local? I doubt it's enough to launch any sort of official investigation. This is what I received as an initial response to my inquiry regarding this "case" that was blowing up the universe.
I also searched for a complaint under your name, but I was unable to locate a complaint in our database.
We have received complaints against Cloud Imperium Games LLC, unfortunately we are unable to discuss a complaint with a third party without authorization from the consumer who filed the complaint.
The Department of Consumer and Business Affairs serves consumers, businesses, and communities through education, advocacy, and complaint resolution. Our mission is to create a fair and vibrant marketplace for consumers and businesses. To reach our mission, we:
· Educate consumers about their rights and responsibilities
· Mediate disputes and investigate consumer fraud complaints
· Assist small business owners
· Enforce L.A. County’s minimum wage ordinance
Our services are free and easy to use.
If you filed a complaint against this business, please contact me at (xxx) xxx-xxxx with your DCBA case number to discuss your complaint.
So for someone who is, supposedly, the Supervising Investigator to not recognize a case number, I found it VERY interesting. I did contact her and discuss the situation as a whole further and she did refer me to the custodian of records. You are able to make a request for the initial complaints related to CIG, if you want, because that portion is public record. However, the resolution or status of the complaints is NOT public record. If someone else wants to follow-up with the custodian of records, I can send along his information. However, based on my conversation with the Investigator, there is a fee involved with getting the records (of course), which is why I didn't go any further with it. PM me if you want the contact details for the custodian of records.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I just can't see trolls missing the opportunity to shout it from the roof tops, the trees, and the mountains.
Crowd funded and the chatter of "nothing is happening", "show me the code", "is this what you call open development" etc. meant that - for example:
The PG when first released was one planet and had no fauna and flower layering. And as a result there were comments that the graphics were dire etc. Now things have moved on.
I am sure they would have liked to have done what you suggested but the bottomline is this is how it is. And as I said a while back it will be tantamount to watching paint dry.