To the surprise of no one. If the Nostalrius people ever want to play any further part in the implementation of vanilla servers, threatening Blizzard with releasing the server code is a goofy way to go about it. *facepalm*
They have not threatened to release the code since they took it down. They threatened to talk about what they discussed with blizzard recently. Read their post on their website, avoid your own bias when reporting: profit.
Agreed. I find it quite offensive that this is taken out of context.
Letter threatening to release code - Before the meeting with Blizzard
WTF MMORPG.COM!!
lol yeah. If you think Nos has taken the nuclear option off the table you're being naive. Other than that the easily offended are... often offended.
I come here for news. The opinions I get from the comments, unless its a review. If you aren't disappointed by how this news was delivered could you at least wipe the brown off your nose.
Is this the Fox News gaming site or MSNBC one?
What everyone has taken such umbrage at is a comment I made...you know, in the COMMENT section. The article has no editorial content in it at all. I, like everyone else here, have an opinion and am entitled to post about my own thoughts on the presented news. Don't tell me you expect me to have a "stealth" account so that I can actually offer my own take on news?
The things referenced in the quotes above this post are from comments I made in response to the news. Let's be clear: There is a separation from the straight up news and, as you so eloquently put it, "the opinions I get from the comments" which is PRECISELY where I added my thoughts.
Dont worry most of us get what it means when a staffer comments in the thread over posting news in the main header. Please keep sharing your thoughts, I for one enjoy it.
Putting this in your article at the end and then following up with the first comment makes your message quite clear. There are many things "unknown" but that's how this site operates. HYPE, SPIN, SPECULATE, DREAM. There was no reason to put the Nostalrius team in the spotlight other than an agenda.
We know what the Nostalrius team is up to. Selling shirts to further push the desire for legacy servers.
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
Putting this in your article at the end and then following up with the first comment makes your message quite clear. There are many things "unknown" but that's how this site operates. HYPE, SPIN, SPECULATE, DREAM. There was no reason to put the Nostalrius team in the spotlight other than an agenda.
We know what the Nostalrius team is up to. Selling shirts to further push the desire for legacy servers.
mmorpg.com staff has done nothing but post the news. People with 1/2 a brain take time to read the news from many outlets to get a clear picture of the whole story if it something you are interested in. If mmorpg.com wrote the whole story on every story we would be upset that each time they posted the news it was 10'000-50'000 words. Get a grip.
Blizzard is a slow moving organization, but a comment on legacy servers SHOULD be made this year. No comment means they are trying to sweep the issue under the rug so a reaction by Nost is warranted.
You're saying that the team who was doing something illegal is justified in their reaction if the issue is not further mentioned to the company's community? What???
Blizzard doesn't have to mention anything after having the project shut down which was operating without their consent. Dangerous times we live in when people actually try to justify illegal actions.
well, making money off of an IP product is illegal. hosting it for free isn't - at least in some countries. I'm sure that's what they mean, and that's what they'll do.
Blizzard is a slow moving organization, but a comment on legacy servers SHOULD be made this year. No comment means they are trying to sweep the issue under the rug so a reaction by Nost is warranted.
You're saying that the team who was doing something illegal is justified in their reaction if the issue is not further mentioned to the company's community? What???
Blizzard doesn't have to mention anything after having the project shut down which was operating without their consent. Dangerous times we live in when people actually try to justify illegal actions.
well, making money off of an IP product is illegal. hosting it for free isn't - at least in some countries. I'm sure that's what they mean, and that's what they'll do.
err... no it's not legal.
all rights to use the work of blizzard are with blizzard. you wanna use it? get the yes from blizz, or it is illegal.
you can't just use other people's work and give it out for free. free does not come with automated legal.
even if you'd setup a WoW server at home, only for your use, it would be illegal. usualy, where there is no plaintiff, there is no judge tho :>
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
If Blizzard thought there was dollar one to be made from this project it would have been done already. As it stands, it all played out just like Blizzard anticipated. Blizzard did some damage control meetings with the Nost group and then let time and new shinies cut most of the support from under the Nost group. Only the zealots care anymore. The average rank and file gamer has moved on to greener pastures. Just look at this thread about the topic for an indication of player interest. Six months ago it would have been twenty pages long and growing. Now its the 10 people yelling at each other for 3 pages.
Nost is gone and its not coming back, Blizzard isn't going to make Legacy Servers anytime in the near future as long as their putting out new content for WoW, and most of the gamers moved on to play Overwatch or something else. The Nost team never really had a chance and now it has missed whatever tide it could have ridden. The Nost team threatening Blizzard (overtly or implicitly) now is like someone left at the alter threatening to hock the wedding rings if their lover doesn't go through with the wedding. Its an impotent threat and at this late date it will make Blizzard look like the reasonable party dealing with a small bunch of angry hackers.
Nost was like a High School keg party. People came and had a blast. The cops have shut it down now and its not coming back; not from Blizzard, not from Russia and not from the Nost team because Blizzard knows who they are now and will sue them blind. It doesn't matter if Blizzard has a valid case against the Nost group. They'll file suit against the individual members of the Nost Group (who have no corporate protection nor a litigation war chest) anyway and they'll bankrupt its individual members with the legal fees defending the suit. They're a mouse fighting an 800 pound gorilla. Blizzard just has to crook its little finger and the Nost group will dry up and disappear like a fart in the wind. I don't like it either but that is how business is done in America and if you'd better be prepared to go all in if you're tangling with the big boys.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
“[I]f Blizzard doesn’t make an announcement to honour their own core values, be sure that we will.”
Is the only standing threat from the Nostalrius team, maybe that could have been reported properly. I won't speculate that it has to do with the code. They have told us it has to do with what happened at the meeting.
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
Blizzard is a slow moving organization, but a comment on legacy servers SHOULD be made this year. No comment means they are trying to sweep the issue under the rug so a reaction by Nost is warranted.
You're saying that the team who was doing something illegal is justified in their reaction if the issue is not further mentioned to the company's community? What???
Blizzard doesn't have to mention anything after having the project shut down which was operating without their consent. Dangerous times we live in when people actually try to justify illegal actions.
well, making money off of an IP product is illegal. hosting it for free isn't - at least in some countries. I'm sure that's what they mean, and that's what they'll do.
err... no it's not legal.
all rights to use the work of blizzard are with blizzard. you wanna use it? get the yes from blizz, or it is illegal.
you can't just use other people's work and give it out for free. free does not come with automated legal.
even if you'd setup a WoW server at home, only for your use, it would be illegal. usualy, where there is no plaintiff, there is no judge tho :>
Again, NO, this applies only to those countries that have signed the international IP rights law or how-it's-called, in all other countries doing any of the above is not illegal and not prosecuted.
Indeed you did. Get a grip? Ha! I'm not ripping out my hair; I'm calling someone out. I'll just go to the other sites you mention so I don't have to pick through the circle jerk and speculation? Is the goal to drive me elsewhere for the news? It may be working..
MMORPG.COM showing its colors as community rather than a news site. Some of you enjoy the former.. I get my community at home and in game.
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
Indeed you did. Get a grip? Ha! I'm not ripping out my hair I'm calling someone out. I'll just go to the other sites you mention so I don't have to pick through the circle jerk and speculation? Is the goal to drive me elsewhere for the news? It may be working..
MMORPG.COM showing its colors as community rather than a news site. Some of you enjoy the former.. I get my community at home and in game.
84 posts in and your ripping this site. Maybe you should hold off judging and get to know this place a little better.
Indeed you did. Get a grip? Ha! I'm not ripping out my hair I'm calling someone out. I'll just go to the other sites you mention so I don't have to pick through the circle jerk and speculation? Is the goal to drive me elsewhere for the news? It may be working..
MMORPG.COM showing its colors as community rather than a news site. Some of you enjoy the former.. I get my community at home and in game.
84 posts in and your ripping this site. Maybe you should hold off judging and get to know this place a little better.
Assumptions only get people in trouble. This has been my go to site for many years.
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
Indeed you did. Get a grip? Ha! I'm not ripping out my hair I'm calling someone out. I'll just go to the other sites you mention so I don't have to pick through the circle jerk and speculation? Is the goal to drive me elsewhere for the news? It may be working..
MMORPG.COM showing its colors as community rather than a news site. Some of you enjoy the former.. I get my community at home and in game.
84 posts in and your ripping this site. Maybe you should hold off judging and get to know this place a little better.
Assumptions only get people in trouble. This has been my go to site for many years.
Since Feb 2016? Or you the kinda of person who pushes buttons till he needs a new account?
Blizzard is a slow moving organization, but a comment on legacy servers SHOULD be made this year. No comment means they are trying to sweep the issue under the rug so a reaction by Nost is warranted.
You're saying that the team who was doing something illegal is justified in their reaction if the issue is not further mentioned to the company's community? What???
Blizzard doesn't have to mention anything after having the project shut down which was operating without their consent. Dangerous times we live in when people actually try to justify illegal actions.
well, making money off of an IP product is illegal. hosting it for free isn't - at least in some countries. I'm sure that's what they mean, and that's what they'll do.
err... no it's not legal.
all rights to use the work of blizzard are with blizzard. you wanna use it? get the yes from blizz, or it is illegal.
you can't just use other people's work and give it out for free. free does not come with automated legal.
even if you'd setup a WoW server at home, only for your use, it would be illegal. usualy, where there is no plaintiff, there is no judge tho :>
Again, NO, this applies only to those countries that have signed the international IP rights law or how-it's-called, in all other countries doing any of the above is not illegal and not prosecuted.
As soon as they opened up the game to players outside of their country though, that would leave them open to prosecution, which if they did not comply, would mean that the IP address of the servers would become unreachable. Most countries btw do comply, and the ones that don't are likely to give short shrift to anyone trying to host a pirate version of WoW there. So the short version is, while theoretically possible, don't hold your breath on that.
Indeed you did. Get a grip? Ha! I'm not ripping out my hair I'm calling someone out. I'll just go to the other sites you mention so I don't have to pick through the circle jerk and speculation? Is the goal to drive me elsewhere for the news? It may be working..
MMORPG.COM showing its colors as community rather than a news site. Some of you enjoy the former.. I get my community at home and in game.
84 posts in and your ripping this site. Maybe you should hold off judging and get to know this place a little better.
Nanfoodle, you've been around a long time and I've read enough of your posts to know you're not unreasonable. I get my MMORPG news here because I think this site gets the facts out with as little bias and slant as possible.
My only complaint here is that post count shouldn't be the only indicator of credible argument. Sedatedkarma might be passionate, but they've been consistent on this issue and engaged in the discussion of this issue in good faith since the news of Nostralius' shut down was released. I've disagreed with them a couple of times on this very issue and while I haven't convinced them of my argument I'll defend Sedatedkarma and say that they are still being consistent, defending what they view as their side of the disagreement and doing what they feel is necessary to make sure the facts are established.
This forum community is better when the debate is cooking anyway. Things always get a little prickly when there are strong feelings. Just give Sedatedkarma a little room to make the point and we can continue the discussion of the issue at hand.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
If Blizzard thought there was dollar one to be made from this project it would have been done already. As it stands, it all played out just like Blizzard anticipated. Blizzard did some damage control meetings with the Nost group and then let time and new shinies cut most of the support from under the Nost group. Only the zealots care anymore. The average rank and file gamer has moved on to greener pastures. Just look at this thread about the topic for an indication of player interest. Six months ago it would have been twenty pages long and growing. Now its the 10 people yelling at each other for 3 pages.
Nost is gone and its not coming back, Blizzard isn't going to make Legacy Servers anytime in the near future as long as their putting out new content for WoW, and most of the gamers moved on to play Overwatch or something else. The Nost team never really had a chance and now it has missed whatever tide it could have ridden. The Nost team threatening Blizzard (overtly or implicitly) now is like someone left at the alter threatening to hock the wedding rings if their lover doesn't go through with the wedding. Its an impotent threat and at this late date it will make Blizzard look like the reasonable party dealing with a small bunch of angry hackers.
Nost was like a High School keg party. People came and had a blast. The cops have shut it down now and its not coming back; not from Blizzard, not from Russia and not from the Nost team because Blizzard knows who they are now and will sue them blind. It doesn't matter if Blizzard has a valid case against the Nost group. They'll file suit against the individual members of the Nost Group (who have no corporate protection nor a litigation war chest) anyway and they'll bankrupt its individual members with the legal fees defending the suit. They're a mouse fighting an 800 pound gorilla. Blizzard just has to crook its little finger and the Nost group will dry up and disappear like a fart in the wind. I don't like it either but that is how business is done in America and if you'd better be prepared to go all in if you're tangling with the big boys.
Eloquently put, but that's a rather cynical view of the situation. Some of it is probably true ... most of it probably is not.
SedrynTyros, thanks for that. Yeah it might be slightly on the harsh side of cynical, but I believe businesses are only interested in customer satisfaction when they can translate that satisfaction into profits. (I guess I've already said that part, eh?). All I see here is Blizzard doing a strict cost/benefit analysis and repeatedly coming up with "it makes more sense to stay the course". We might disagree with that assessment, but I have to believe they have actuaries on staff that view their consumer data and advise the decision making elements of Blizzard. I don't know what evidence they're looking at, but I'm not going to assume I know more than Blizzard does about its product. I know how I feel about it, and how a few others feel about it, but as to the rest I'm just throwing darts.
With that as a given, then we have to assume that the bean counters at Blizzard have done some kind of evaluation and concluded that there isn't enough interest to make this worth the time and the effort. In this case the "pocket veto" of Legacy servers is simple the path of least resistance and you can count on people to move on to other things as long as you don't give them a reason to keep getting stirred up. Simply avoid the argument and most times it will simply go away. As terrible as that sounds, it works a lot of the time.
As for the lawsuit part that just been my experience. I've seen established companies sue and regulate other companies with good and innovative ideas right out of existence to defend market share. Its one of the oldest plays in the book: If you can't beat them, beat them up. It might be evil, but it works.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
Probably because they know that once the nostalgic historical revisionists play on vanilla servers, they'll realize just how bland vanilla WoW actually is compared to today's product and stop playing on them.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
The timing is just not right for this. You can't expect them to do a complete 180 on this immediately after launching an expansion. Next year when they hype is dead and the money starts to dry up, they could use vanilla servers as a between expansion gimmick or something. People need to be realistic about this stuff and not expect Blizzard to do something against their own interest no matter how much fans want it. Making threats is just shit stupid and counter productive. That's a childish response to not getting what you want just because you want it. The entitlement generation is going to be in for a world of hurt some day when reality hits them in the face.
We've got decent content coming in decent time for once and the WoW team is already taking more hits, I don't see why anyone currently playing would want to risk that by having members shifted to tend to legacy servers.
It is Vanilla WoW we are talking about. No updates, just maintenance and events. A very small crew would do just fine with this. Probably include BC, since that was a very good expansion, and a way to update top vanilla gear for BC. That would be it. A crew of a half dozen would likely be more than enough.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
People probably shouldn't be surprised if there is no news next year either. I think Blizzard invented the term glacial development. Look how long they sat on Starcraft Ghost and Titan before they canned those.
Agreed
And when/if they ever do announce it, it isn't just going to be a straight Vanilla legacy server. They're going to give it a new coat of paint and sell it to you all over again.
Did anyone really think that Blizzard would for once give the players what they asked for?
They are in the business of stringing people along, Legion as their latest product blantantly shows this. They have always been going from "we'll look into that...", "soon...", "we appreciate your feedback..." to "we've never said that...", "everything as it currently is is as intended", "at the moment we have no plans to..."
I don't think many people are saying that. They are talking about what they hoped for.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
It does not matter to me anymore. My personal feeling is I dont like current WOW and therefore I will not pay them any more money period. They got a Total of $14.99 out of me in 2+ years. O well thats their own fault for taking the game in a direction I dont like. I have the freedom to pay or not to pay for it.
The only thing I will say is Tom Chilton is no longer leading WOW. He has moved on to another project within Blizzard. Is it possible that it is a new MMO? Who knows; but in any event I will keep my ears open if it is, and if the game resembles more of a Vanilla/TBC type MMO, or the Casual 15 a minute weekend Warrior type MMO, or if this would be a more Sandbox Pre-WOW MMO, or hell it could be that its not an MMO at all.
For me it basically boils down to I dont care about WOW anymore. NEXT!
Indeed you did. Get a grip? Ha! I'm not ripping out my hair I'm calling someone out. I'll just go to the other sites you mention so I don't have to pick through the circle jerk and speculation? Is the goal to drive me elsewhere for the news? It may be working..
MMORPG.COM showing its colors as community rather than a news site. Some of you enjoy the former.. I get my community at home and in game.
84 posts in and your ripping this site. Maybe you should hold off judging and get to know this place a little better.
Assumptions only get people in trouble. This has been my go to site for many years.
Since Feb 2016? Or you the kinda of person who pushes buttons till he needs a new account?
Perhaps if I had more achievement points I would be accepted with my opinions? Isn't that further demonstrating a problem? As much as I would like to carry on the one on one until you see reason, I'll get back to why I actually spoke up..
SBFord said, "The language of the letter they posted to the forum was purposely obtuse and wide open to a number of interpretations." A letter they posted months ago.
The same can be said for this article as SBFord said in her defense. The language of this article is in question, but was posted just yesterday. I can take anyone out of context or time, but then is it really news?
The Nostalrius team is more transparent with where they are taking legacy WoW than Blizzard. You can find that out if you read past their cover letter.
Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.
Comments
Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/world-of-warcraft/news/no-vanilla-servers-to-be-announced-at-blizzcon-1000041843#1hAzJVZbEJmGEjiB.99
Putting this in your article at the end and then following up with the first comment makes your message quite clear. There are many things "unknown" but that's how this site operates. HYPE, SPIN, SPECULATE, DREAM. There was no reason to put the Nostalrius team in the spotlight other than an agenda.
We know what the Nostalrius team is up to. Selling shirts to further push the desire for legacy servers.
all rights to use the work of blizzard are with blizzard.
you wanna use it? get the yes from blizz, or it is illegal.
you can't just use other people's work and give it out for free. free does not come with automated legal.
even if you'd setup a WoW server at home, only for your use, it would be illegal.
usualy, where there is no plaintiff, there is no judge tho :>
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Nost is gone and its not coming back, Blizzard isn't going to make Legacy Servers anytime in the near future as long as their putting out new content for WoW, and most of the gamers moved on to play Overwatch or something else. The Nost team never really had a chance and now it has missed whatever tide it could have ridden. The Nost team threatening Blizzard (overtly or implicitly) now is like someone left at the alter threatening to hock the wedding rings if their lover doesn't go through with the wedding. Its an impotent threat and at this late date it will make Blizzard look like the reasonable party dealing with a small bunch of angry hackers.
Nost was like a High School keg party. People came and had a blast. The cops have shut it down now and its not coming back; not from Blizzard, not from Russia and not from the Nost team because Blizzard knows who they are now and will sue them blind. It doesn't matter if Blizzard has a valid case against the Nost group. They'll file suit against the individual members of the Nost Group (who have no corporate protection nor a litigation war chest) anyway and they'll bankrupt its individual members with the legal fees defending the suit. They're a mouse fighting an 800 pound gorilla. Blizzard just has to crook its little finger and the Nost group will dry up and disappear like a fart in the wind. I don't like it either but that is how business is done in America and if you'd better be prepared to go all in if you're tangling with the big boys.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
Is the only standing threat from the Nostalrius team, maybe that could have been reported properly. I won't speculate that it has to do with the code. They have told us it has to do with what happened at the meeting.
MMORPG.COM showing its colors as community rather than a news site.
Some of you enjoy the former.. I get my community at home and in game.
Most countries btw do comply, and the ones that don't are likely to give short shrift to anyone trying to host a pirate version of WoW there.
So the short version is, while theoretically possible, don't hold your breath on that.
My only complaint here is that post count shouldn't be the only indicator of credible argument. Sedatedkarma might be passionate, but they've been consistent on this issue and engaged in the discussion of this issue in good faith since the news of Nostralius' shut down was released. I've disagreed with them a couple of times on this very issue and while I haven't convinced them of my argument I'll defend Sedatedkarma and say that they are still being consistent, defending what they view as their side of the disagreement and doing what they feel is necessary to make sure the facts are established.
This forum community is better when the debate is cooking anyway. Things always get a little prickly when there are strong feelings. Just give Sedatedkarma a little room to make the point and we can continue the discussion of the issue at hand.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
With that as a given, then we have to assume that the bean counters at Blizzard have done some kind of evaluation and concluded that there isn't enough interest to make this worth the time and the effort. In this case the "pocket veto" of Legacy servers is simple the path of least resistance and you can count on people to move on to other things as long as you don't give them a reason to keep getting stirred up. Simply avoid the argument and most times it will simply go away. As terrible as that sounds, it works a lot of the time.
As for the lawsuit part that just been my experience. I've seen established companies sue and regulate other companies with good and innovative ideas right out of existence to defend market share. Its one of the oldest plays in the book: If you can't beat them, beat them up. It might be evil, but it works.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
And when/if they ever do announce it, it isn't just going to be a straight Vanilla legacy server. They're going to give it a new coat of paint and sell it to you all over again.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I don't think many people are saying that. They are talking about what they hoped for.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The only thing I will say is Tom Chilton is no longer leading WOW. He has moved on to another project within Blizzard. Is it possible that it is a new MMO? Who knows; but in any event I will keep my ears open if it is, and if the game resembles more of a Vanilla/TBC type MMO, or the Casual 15 a minute weekend Warrior type MMO, or if this would be a more Sandbox Pre-WOW MMO, or hell it could be that its not an MMO at all.
For me it basically boils down to I dont care about WOW anymore. NEXT!
SBFord said,
"The language of the letter they posted to the forum was purposely obtuse and wide open to a number of interpretations."
A letter they posted months ago.
The same can be said for this article as SBFord said in her defense. The language of this article is in question, but was posted just yesterday. I can take anyone out of context or time, but then is it really news?
The Nostalrius team is more transparent with where they are taking legacy WoW than Blizzard. You can find that out if you read past their cover letter.