Any game taking that level of money post production (with a sub as an exception), is prioritizing money over all else.....which is fine, they are a business. However, when money becomes the most important factor in terms of gameplay, it makes the game crap. Proper post production revenue systems (save sub), can be seen within games like GW2.
"But - if "rare and powerful" souls show up maybe 1 in 100 packs, or 1 in 1,000 and it's not known it's a "rare and powerful" soul until 10 hours into playing it; then it's much easier to see it as a world and story-building tool."
Indeed Caspian, it also means that those "rare souls" will fetch a handsome price on EBay, lol
As well as cost a handsome price to try to purposely acquire. Say we go with $10 a pack, best case scenario that is anywhere from $1000 to $10000 to find in addition to the cost of a spark for every soul, which is needed to activate the soul in order to find out it is rare.
Hmm and alternate accounts since you are only able to have a limited number of active souls on one account.
Oh and let us not forget you would need to sell your entire account in order to sell that one soul.
Given that CoE has had no shortage of players willing to pony-up $10K for the power and privilege of a Kingship, I can't imagine that those same players wouldn't jump at the chance of acquiring a suitably "talented" soul to complement their already purchased status.
They're not going to settle for a "ordinary" soul if there's an opportunity to buy a "top dog" from somebody else. Money talks...
I am not going to play the what if game anymore. At this point, I will just repeat what Ungood has been saying all along. If someone is not comfortable with the features and way a game is being developed, then maybe it is better they search for a game that is more suited to the gameplay they are seeking.
According to pledges and community in CoE, there is already a very large demographic that is eager to play CoE the way it is being developed. And no game out there is going to please everyone.
"But - if "rare and powerful" souls show up maybe 1 in 100 packs, or 1 in 1,000 and it's not known it's a "rare and powerful" soul until 10 hours into playing it; then it's much easier to see it as a world and story-building tool."
Indeed Caspian, it also means that those "rare souls" will fetch a handsome price on EBay, lol
As well as cost a handsome price to try to purposely acquire. Say we go with $10 a pack, best case scenario that is anywhere from $1000 to $10000 to find in addition to the cost of a spark for every soul, which is needed to activate the soul in order to find out it is rare.
Hmm and alternate accounts since you are only able to have a limited number of active souls on one account.
Oh and let us not forget you would need to sell your entire account in order to sell that one soul.
Given that CoE has had no shortage of players willing to pony-up $10K for the power and privilege of a Kingship, I can't imagine that those same players wouldn't jump at the chance of acquiring a suitably "talented" soul to complement their already purchased status.
They're not going to settle for a "ordinary" soul if there's an opportunity to buy a "top dog" from somebody else. Money talks...
I agree, but the first step was getting him to admit he had lootboxes in his game
Now it sounds like we have him thinking about ways to mitigate it.
Again... PROGRESS!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The way math works... if something costs $10 for a 1 in 100 chance of a rare soul it would take an average of around $500 to get one. It could be $10... or it could be $3000. That’s the very nature of a lootbox.
Wouldn't that be average of $1 000 to get one? Or am I missing something here?
"But - if "rare and powerful" souls show up maybe 1 in 100 packs, or 1 in 1,000 and it's not known it's a "rare and powerful" soul until 10 hours into playing it; then it's much easier to see it as a world and story-building tool."
Indeed Caspian, it also means that those "rare souls" will fetch a handsome price on EBay, lol
As well as cost a handsome price to try to purposely acquire. Say we go with $10 a pack, best case scenario that is anywhere from $1000 to $10000 to find in addition to the cost of a spark for every soul, which is needed to activate the soul in order to find out it is rare.
Hmm and alternate accounts since you are only able to have a limited number of active souls on one account.
Oh and let us not forget you would need to sell your entire account in order to sell that one soul.
Given that CoE has had no shortage of players willing to pony-up $10K for the power and privilege of a Kingship, I can't imagine that those same players wouldn't jump at the chance of acquiring a suitably "talented" soul to complement their already purchased status.
They're not going to settle for a "ordinary" soul if there's an opportunity to buy a "top dog" from somebody else. Money talks...
I agree, but the first step was getting him to admit he had lootboxes in his game
Now it sounds like we have him thinking about ways to mitigate it.
Again... PROGRESS!
Can't remember you actually trying to figure out ways to get him to mitigate it, I know it did but can' remember you doing so.
If you did please let me know and I will admit my mistake. (I'm also on my phone so can't do a proper search).
The way math works... if something costs $10 for a 1 in 100 chance of a rare soul it would take an average of around $500 to get one. It could be $10... or it could be $3000. That’s the very nature of a lootbox.
Wouldn't that be average of $1 000 to get one? Or am I missing something here?
Im an ass
No more drunk posting for me!
Edit- LOL now I don't remember. It made sense earlier. Something about from my perspective. I buy 50 SoulCrates. Thats $500
I have a 1% chance of getting a special one in each pack
On average.. in my 50 I have a 50% chance of getting one. I might get zero. I might get 3...
Math + BBQs do not generally mix though so of course thats wrong (50% chance does not mean average). Sorry for confusing people
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The way math works... if something costs $10 for a 1 in 100 chance of a rare soul it would take an average of around $500 to get one. It could be $10... or it could be $3000. That’s the very nature of a lootbox.
Wouldn't that be average of $1 000 to get one? Or am I missing something here?
Im an ass
No more drunk posting for me!
This is still incorrect since you would also have to pay thirty dollars per soul for a spark in order to find out if it is rare are not. As per Caspian' post. To play a Soul, you need to activate it with a spark. In addition to us not knowing if it is 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000.
Caspian Said: But - if "rare and powerful" souls show up maybe 1 in 100 packs, or 1 in 1,000 and it's not known it's a "rare and powerful" soul until 10 hours into playing it
The way math works... if something costs $10 for a 1 in 100 chance of a rare soul it would take an average of around $500 to get one. It could be $10... or it could be $3000. That’s the very nature of a lootbox.
Wouldn't that be average of $1 000 to get one? Or am I missing something here?
Im an ass
No more drunk posting for me!
This is still incorrect since you would also have to pay thirty dollars per soul for a spark in order to find out if it is rare are not. As per Caspian' post. To play a Soul, you need to activate it with a spark. In addition to us not knowing if it is 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000.
Caspian Said: But - if "rare and powerful" souls show up maybe 1 in 100 packs, or 1 in 1,000 and it's not known it's a "rare and powerful" soul until 10 hours into playing it
"Caspian: If you put a nickle into a slot machine and 99 out of 100 times get a nickle back, it's not gambling."
Jeromy Walsh BS at it's best !
It's only not gambling if there's no chance of EVER getting more than that nickle back.
The moment there's a "chance" involved, it automatically becomes gambling. Longer odds just carry higher payouts when they DO occur.
No. A Gamble involves a Risk, most notably a chance (often a Large chance) to Lose. A Gamble is not simply RNG or variable outcomes all of which are equal or better then the investment.
If you have a 99% chance to get your nickle back, and a 1% chance to get a dime.. it's not gambling, as there is no risk involved and you never lose. That is not "Gambling" by any sane persons standard, and even a few nut jobs would not consider that a gamble.
Same with Soul Boxes, If you are guaranteed to get 3 souls with each purchase, it's not a gamble or a risk of what you will get, you will get exactly what you paid for, 3 souls.
There is a chance at getting a higher tier soul, but that is not a gamble and you will always get your 10 dollars worth of souls, regardless of the outcome, the Unique or Old Souls are a bonus reward.
So Once Again, if put a Nickel into the Machine and 99% of the time you get your Nickle Back, and 1% chance to get a Dime.. you are not gambling, as you never take a risk and never lose.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
"Caspian: If you put a nickle into a slot machine and 99 out of 100 times get a nickle back, it's not gambling."
Jeromy Walsh BS at it's best !
It's only not gambling if there's no chance of EVER getting more than that nickle back.
The moment there's a "chance" involved, it automatically becomes gambling. Longer odds just carry higher payouts when they DO occur.
No. A Gamble involves a Risk, most notably a chance (often a Large chance) to Lose. A Gamble is not simply RNG or variable outcomes all of which are equal or better then the investment.
If you have a 99% chance to get your nickle back, and a 1% chance to get a dime.. it's not gambling, as there is no risk involved and you never lose. That is not "Gambling" by any sane persons standard, and even a few nut jobs would not consider that a gamble.
Same with Soul Boxes, If you are guaranteed to get 3 souls with each purchase, it's not a gamble or a risk of what you will get, you will get exactly what you paid for, 3 souls.
There is a chance at getting a higher tier soul, but that is not a gamble and you will always get your 10 dollars worth of souls, regardless of the outcome, the Unique or Old Souls are a bonus reward.
So Once Again, if put a Nickel into the Machine and 99% of the time you get your Nickle Back, and 1% chance to get a Dime.. you are not gambling, as you never take a risk and never lose.
Did Caspen say you get a dime on the 1%? The way I read it was you just get your money back 99% of the time and nothing the last 1%... which would be gambling.
But as we saw above my math is not the best today.
Your soul comparison though is not the same because I am not buying the soulpack with a soul. (a nickle for a nickle). The souls may be worthless to me... have zero value unless they are the exact skill I want and the rarity I want. This is why I personally hate lootboxes. If I want to buy something let me just freaking buy it. Put a real price on it.
BUT... as long as they are clear that it's lootboxes you are buying... then go for it. If you like the random chance I won;t stop you. Just make sure people know what they are getting into.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Caspian: If you put a nickle into a slot machine and 99 out of 100 times get a nickle back, it's not gambling."
Jeromy Walsh BS at it's best !
It's only not gambling if there's no chance of EVER getting more than that nickle back.
The moment there's a "chance" involved, it automatically becomes gambling. Longer odds just carry higher payouts when they DO occur.
No. A Gamble involves a Risk, most notably a chance (often a Large chance) to Lose. A Gamble is not simply RNG or variable outcomes all of which are equal or better then the investment.
If you have a 99% chance to get your nickle back, and a 1% chance to get a dime.. it's not gambling, as there is no risk involved and you never lose. That is not "Gambling" by any sane persons standard, and even a few nut jobs would not consider that a gamble.
Same with Soul Boxes, If you are guaranteed to get 3 souls with each purchase, it's not a gamble or a risk of what you will get, you will get exactly what you paid for, 3 souls.
There is a chance at getting a higher tier soul, but that is not a gamble and you will always get your 10 dollars worth of souls, regardless of the outcome, the Unique or Old Souls are a bonus reward.
So Once Again, if put a Nickel into the Machine and 99% of the time you get your Nickle Back, and 1% chance to get a Dime.. you are not gambling, as you never take a risk and never lose.
Did Caspen say you get a dime on the 1%? The way I read it was you just get your money back 99% of the time and nothing the last 1%... which would be gambling.
But as we saw above my math is not the best today.
Your soul comparison though is not the same because I am not buying the soulpack with a soul. (a nickle for a nickle). The souls may be worthless to me... have zero value unless they are the exact skill I want and the rarity I want. This is why I personally hate lootboxes. If I want to buy something let me just freaking buy it. Put a real price on it.
BUT... as long as they are clear that it's lootboxes you are buying... then go for it. If you like the random chance I won;t stop you. Just make sure people know what they are getting into.
You're absolutely right, when they start selling them they should be absolutely clear on what the soul packs are, what you can get and what your chances are of getting different outcomes. I think we can all expect that's how it'll go. Once they are available to buy, all of this kind of information should be available. I don't think it's a big deal unless of course the item description for soul packs in the store will read something like: "You get what you get and don't throw a fit." Again as far as lootboxes go I think most could agree that a slight edge in crafting/gathering/enter skill here is better than lootboxes with OP gear
Edit P.S I'd also like to point out for those that don't know. There isn't a centralized "auction house" either. So my alchemist won't be competing with yours directly unless we happened to both be in the same Hamlet/Town/City. This will help create diverse localized economies that'll be pretty cool imho.
Also, as far as from what I understand you will also specialize too. For instance my blacksmith if I spend all my time making shields would end up making some awesome shields. Where if you spend all your time making helmets then you'll make some amazing helmets. With that, again this is my understanding, if we did this and we were both at 55 smithing we would make a straight sword equal to one another but my shields would be better than yours while your helmets are better than mine.
"Caspian: If you put a nickle into a slot machine and 99 out of 100 times get a nickle back, it's not gambling."
Jeromy Walsh BS at it's best !
It's only not gambling if there's no chance of EVER getting more than that nickle back.
The moment there's a "chance" involved, it automatically becomes gambling. Longer odds just carry higher payouts when they DO occur.
No. A Gamble involves a Risk, most notably a chance (often a Large chance) to Lose. A Gamble is not simply RNG or variable outcomes all of which are equal or better then the investment.
If you have a 99% chance to get your nickle back, and a 1% chance to get a dime.. it's not gambling, as there is no risk involved and you never lose. That is not "Gambling" by any sane persons standard, and even a few nut jobs would not consider that a gamble.
Same with Soul Boxes, If you are guaranteed to get 3 souls with each purchase, it's not a gamble or a risk of what you will get, you will get exactly what you paid for, 3 souls.
There is a chance at getting a higher tier soul, but that is not a gamble and you will always get your 10 dollars worth of souls, regardless of the outcome, the Unique or Old Souls are a bonus reward.
So Once Again, if put a Nickel into the Machine and 99% of the time you get your Nickle Back, and 1% chance to get a Dime.. you are not gambling, as you never take a risk and never lose.
Did Caspen say you get a dime on the 1%? The way I read it was you just get your money back 99% of the time and nothing the last 1%... which would be gambling.
But as we saw above my math is not the best today.
Your soul comparison though is not the same because I am not buying the soulpack with a soul. (a nickle for a nickle). The souls may be worthless to me... have zero value unless they are the exact skill I want and the rarity I want. This is why I personally hate lootboxes. If I want to buy something let me just freaking buy it. Put a real price on it.
BUT... as long as they are clear that it's lootboxes you are buying... then go for it. If you like the random chance I won;t stop you. Just make sure people know what they are getting into.
You're absolutely right, when they start selling them they should be absolutely clear on what the soul packs are, what you can get and what your chances are of getting different outcomes. I think we can all expect that's how it'll go. Once they are available to buy, all of this kind of information should be available. I don't think it's a big deal unless of course the item description for soul packs in the store will read something like: "You get what you get and don't throw a fit." Again as far as lootboxes go I think most could agree that a slight edge in crafting/gathering/enter skill here is better than lootboxes with OP gear
Dunno that I agree with the last part because a 10% skill ramp edge that you cannot lose is probably a bigger advantage than a random weapon you can lose when you die.
But that's not so important to the conversation.
We agree in principle... and getting Caspien to admit they are lootboxes is PROGRESS!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You're absolutely right, when they start selling them they should be absolutely clear on what the soul packs are, what you can get and what your chances are of getting different outcomes.
I think we can all expect that's how it'll go. Once they are available to buy, all of this kind of information should be available. I don't think it's a big deal unless of course the item description for soul packs in the store will read something like: "You get what you get and don't throw a fit." Again as far as lootboxes go I think most could agree that a slight edge in crafting/gathering/enter skill here is better than lootboxes with OP gear
Dunno that I agree with the last part because a 10% skill ramp edge that you cannot lose is probably a bigger advantage than a random weapon you can lose when you die.
But that's not so important to the conversation.
We agree in principle... and getting Caspien to admit they are lootboxes is PROGRESS!
I get where you're coming from with the skill ramps (that you can't lose unless you stop using those skills in future lives) vs OP gear that you would at least have the potential to lose through battle or theft.
I guess to me the reason why it's not a big deal is because I just can't invest the same amount of time into my games like I would in my former years.
So even if we all started with the exact same skill level at the exact same time with the exact same ramps; I would still be far behind my competitive Crafters and such because I simply wouldn't have the same amount of time to invest in my character as said competing Crafters
You're absolutely right, when they start selling them they should be absolutely clear on what the soul packs are, what you can get and what your chances are of getting different outcomes.
I think we can all expect that's how it'll go. Once they are available to buy, all of this kind of information should be available. I don't think it's a big deal unless of course the item description for soul packs in the store will read something like: "You get what you get and don't throw a fit." Again as far as lootboxes go I think most could agree that a slight edge in crafting/gathering/enter skill here is better than lootboxes with OP gear
Dunno that I agree with the last part because a 10% skill ramp edge that you cannot lose is probably a bigger advantage than a random weapon you can lose when you die.
But that's not so important to the conversation.
We agree in principle... and getting Caspien to admit they are lootboxes is PROGRESS!
I get where you're coming from with the skill ramps (that you can't lose unless you stop using those skills in future lives) vs OP gear that you would at least have the potential to lose through battle or theft.
I guess to me the reason why it's not a big deal is because I just can't invest the same amount of time into my games like I would in my former years.
So even if we all started with the exact same skill level at the exact same time with the exact same ramps; I would still be far behind my competitive Crafters and such because I simply wouldn't have the same amount of time to invest in my character as said competing Crafters
Lots of whales in games invest both money AND time into their games. You'd still be far behind those competitive guys regardless.
And a spark does allow a character to live approximately one real-world life
Again this is becoming a rather boring game of semantics
Slap, please answer this question, can a Spark of life last 1 real world year or not?
That’s what I have been saying. Mystic said it was totally incorrect to say the average lifespan of a soul was a year. I guess it was to try and disprove how advantageous starting with a 3rd life soul is or something but it’s hard to follow sometimes.
Can anyone show where they explain the RNG SoulPacks on the website where you would likely look? Does anyone disagree it should be explained in detail to prospective customers and not on a random forum or Discord post?
Dude, this is where they got you with key words and tricky phrases. You will likely only buy one per year. You buy one this year. In 8 months you will buy one again, but since it's in the next year your will have bout it then. Every few years you will buy them twice a year because 8 month period will land twice in a year. But they're not outright lying because that's not typically how purchases fall.
These guys never said it would average a year. They just said you'll typically buy it once in a year. Clever aren't they.
Turbine used to play semantical mind games like this too. I hate it. I don't approve of this sort of marketing at all. Speak plainly.
Nothing he says is plain. Everything seems hidden or half truths. Like his description of the lootbox odds... "IF" they are 1 in 100...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Let me use an analogy here,. some people might know this.
Willy Wonka and the Magic Chocolate Factory.
Now Wonka had this great idea to hide some magic tickets in his candy bars, and reward some lucky people.
Now, that was not gambling. Some people may mistake it for a gamble, and while it is a game of chance, it is not a gamble as there no risk to the person that buys the candy bar.
Now some people obsessed with getting the ticket might think that not getting the ticket is the risk, but that is not the case because, no matter what you got your money worth of candy.
Even if all you got was the candy bar you still broke even.
That is because You were not buying a Golden Ticket, you were not buying a chance at a Golden Ticket, you were buying a candy bar.
As such, ticket or not, you still an even return for your money spent. Hence the 99% chance of getting your nickle back.
You will at the very least get your monies worth in goods, no matter what happens.
Now. Willy Wonka is a good example of how this plays out and the kind of people that get into these things.
And that is exactly what is going on here, buying 3 souls would be 10 dollars, no matter what. So, no matter what happens when you open the Soul Crate, you are getting your monies worth in souls.
Now, If you don't want or need souls, then you really need to ask yourself why you are buying more of them.
If you are dumping your money into this plan in hopes to get some special or unique soul, like Nut Heiress in the Willy Wonka story, that is purely upon you, but, that does not change that you still got your monies worth in souls, regardless if you wanted them or not.
Now, supposedly there will be a trade in for souls for those with money to blow and bought many of them. Now, no one gets more or less then 3 souls a box, so, that exchange is open to anyone who wants to do it, nothing stopping you from buying souls just to trade them in for other things also, as everyone pays the same for souls.
Hell, for all I know, Souls might become the In-Game "Tokens" that players use to buy stuff from the store.. you know.. when that gets put in.. because.. we all know it's going to happen.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Let me use an analogy here,. some people might know this.
Willy Wonka and the Magic Chocolate Factory.
Now Wonka had this great idea to hide some magic tickets in his candy bars, and reward some lucky people.
Now, that was not gambling. Some people may mistake it for a gamble, and while it is a game of chance, it is not a gamble as there no risk to the person that buys the candy bar.
Now some people obsessed with getting the ticket might think that not getting the ticket is the risk, but that is not the case because, no matter what you got your money worth of candy.
Even if all you got was the candy bar you still broke even.
That is because You were not buying a Golden Ticket, you were not buying a chance at a Golden Ticket, you were buying a candy bar.
As such, ticket or not, you still an even return for your money spent. Hence the 99% chance of getting your nickle back.
You will at the very least get your monies worth in goods, no matter what happens.
Now. Willy Wonka is a good example of how this plays out and the kind of people that get into these things.
And that is exactly what is going on here, buying 3 souls would be 10 dollars, no matter what. So, no matter what happens when you open the Soul Crate, you are getting your monies worth in souls.
Now, If you don't want or need souls, then you really need to ask yourself why you are buying more of them.
If you are dumping your money into this plan in hopes to get some special or unique soul, like Nut Heiress in the Willy Wonka story, that is purely upon you, but, that does not change that you still got your monies worth in souls, regardless if you wanted them or not.
Now, supposedly there will be a trade in for souls for those with money to blow and bought many of them. Now, no one gets more or less then 3 souls a box, so, that exchange is open to anyone who wants to do it, nothing stopping you from buying souls just to trade them in for other things also, as everyone pays the same for souls.
Hell, for all I know, Souls might become the In-Game "Tokens" that players use to buy stuff from the store.. you know.. when that gets put in.. because.. we all know it's going to happen.
No actually for your Willie Wonka story to be relevant you wouldn't get a chocolate bar every time. You would get a random piece of candy. Maybe its a chocolate bar that you want, but maybe its a piece of gum or an earwax jelly bean. Then SOMETIMES... you would get a double or triple sized piece of candy.
You can say "Well you are buying a piece of candy and got one so be happy" I would say "I want a freaking chocolate bar why would I have to buy a box that may or may not have a chocolate bar in it"?
I don't need random pieces of candy... I want chocolate bars damnit!
When you buy a SoulPack its going to have 3 random souls around a motiff.. That may be something like Warrior. So I get one soul that is basic unarmed. I get another 2 that are Strong and tend to swords. Great... I actually wanted a guy that would use a mace and be more dexterous. You gave me 1 piece of gum and 2 candy apples but no chocolate bars...
(and yes the example above is made up so please don't tell me there are no "Warrior" packs. We know. But they ARE selling packs with random souls around motifs)
Sure you can say that I can force my soul into any shape I want by just using those skills. Yup, but that's not the point damn it. Just let me buy what I want! (or not buy... just create what i want)
Let me put it to you this way. What benefit does randomizing my character's soul add to me, the player? Why spend all that time showcasing character creation but then draw the line at the soul? Would it be good if you just bought a "Brudvyr" CreationPack and got 3 random character appearances to choose from? They will all be Brudvyr.. but not quite what you want. But hey.. you paid for 3 appearances and you got 3!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Let me use an analogy here,. some people might know this.
Willy Wonka and the Magic Chocolate Factory.
Now Wonka had this great idea to hide some magic tickets in his candy bars, and reward some lucky people.
Now, that was not gambling. Some people may mistake it for a gamble, and while it is a game of chance, it is not a gamble as there no risk to the person that buys the candy bar.
Now some people obsessed with getting the ticket might think that not getting the ticket is the risk, but that is not the case because, no matter what you got your money worth of candy.
Even if all you got was the candy bar you still broke even.
That is because You were not buying a Golden Ticket, you were not buying a chance at a Golden Ticket, you were buying a candy bar.
As such, ticket or not, you still an even return for your money spent. Hence the 99% chance of getting your nickle back.
You will at the very least get your monies worth in goods, no matter what happens.
Now. Willy Wonka is a good example of how this plays out and the kind of people that get into these things.
And that is exactly what is going on here, buying 3 souls would be 10 dollars, no matter what. So, no matter what happens when you open the Soul Crate, you are getting your monies worth in souls.
Now, If you don't want or need souls, then you really need to ask yourself why you are buying more of them.
If you are dumping your money into this plan in hopes to get some special or unique soul, like Nut Heiress in the Willy Wonka story, that is purely upon you, but, that does not change that you still got your monies worth in souls, regardless if you wanted them or not.
Now, supposedly there will be a trade in for souls for those with money to blow and bought many of them. Now, no one gets more or less then 3 souls a box, so, that exchange is open to anyone who wants to do it, nothing stopping you from buying souls just to trade them in for other things also, as everyone pays the same for souls.
Hell, for all I know, Souls might become the In-Game "Tokens" that players use to buy stuff from the store.. you know.. when that gets put in.. because.. we all know it's going to happen.
No actually for your Willie Wonka story to be relevant you wouldn't get a chocolate bar every time. You would get a random piece of candy. Maybe its a chocolate bar that you want, but maybe its a piece of gum or an earwax jelly bean. Then SOMETIMES... you would get a double or triple sized piece of candy.
You can say "Well you are buying a piece of candy and got one so be happy" I would say "I want a freaking chocolate bar why would I have to buy a box that may or may not have a chocolate bar in it"?
I don't need random pieces of candy... I want chocolate bars damnit!
When you buy a SoulPack its going to have 3 random souls around a motiff.. That may be something like Warrior. So I get one soul that is basic unarmed. I get another 2 that are Strong and tend to swords. Great... I actually wanted a guy that would use a mace and be more dexterous. You gave me 1 piece of gum and 2 candy apples but no chocolate bars...
(and yes the example above is made up so please don't tell me there are no "Warrior" packs. We know. But they ARE selling packs with random souls around motifs)
Sure you can say that I can force my soul into any shape I want by just using those skills. Yup, but that's not the point damn it. Just let me buy what I want! (or not buy... just create what i want)
Let me put it to you this way. What benefit does randomizing my character's soul add to me, the player? Why spend all that time showcasing character creation but then draw the line at the soul? Would it be good if you just bought a "Brudvyr" CreationPack and got 3 random character appearances to choose from? They will all be Brudvyr.. but not quite what you want. But hey.. you paid for 3 appearances and you got 3!
I would argue that it is a chocolate bar that I love! However, there maybe mint in it, or cinnamon, or maybe even fruit! I still get the chocolate, however it may be a flavor I don't necessarily want. That's OK though, because going into it, I KNEW that I wouldn't get the flavor I wanted. However, either way, I knew I was getting chocolate.
Have to say it @Slapshot1188 I agree with the the other posters.
For your analogy to run true they would have to say. Ok here is your box it might have a soul in it, but it might be a spark, a sword or a pet. They are all digital items but not the item you want, your buying a soul pack so you want souls, just because you don't like the soul means nothing.
There is a chance at getting a higher tier soul, but that is not a gamble and you will always get your 10 dollars worth of souls, regardless of the outcome, the Unique or Old Souls are a bonus reward.
The price you pay for something doesn't necessarily equate to the value you get from or place on it, especially when what you get for your money is uncertain.
If someone "requires" an Old Soul (as in nothing else will satisfy), any any other type of soul received will have no value to the person. As such, it is unquestionably a gamble. It is even more so if only a specific Old Soul will do.
There is a chance at getting a higher tier soul, but that is not a gamble and you will always get your 10 dollars worth of souls, regardless of the outcome, the Unique or Old Souls are a bonus reward.
The price you pay for something doesn't necessarily equate to the value you get from or place on it, especially when what you get for your money is uncertain.
If someone "requires" an Old Soul (as in nothing else will satisfy), any any other type of soul received will have no value to the person. As such, it is unquestionably a gamble. It is even more so if only a specific Old Soul will do.
Not entirely true, I understand your point, and I agree with some of it. But I will put this another way, My children like the mystery packs (different types but doesn't matter which one). I buy them the pack knowing it includes a small toy, now my children want a toy they don't have. Even if they don't get a toy they want they still get a toy to the monetay value I have paid.
If this was counted as gambling how do you think the regulators would view this? especially since its aimed at children.
Have to say it @Slapshot1188 I agree with the the other posters.
For your analogy to run true they would have to say. Ok here is your box it might have a soul in it, but it might be a spark, a sword or a pet. They are all digital items but not the item you want, your buying a soul pack so you want souls, just because you don't like the soul means nothing.
Not at all. This is the essence of lootboxes. Even in Fortnite you could buy “Weapon Llamas”. Sure I get a weapon every time, but it could be a sword, a handgun, a machine gun....
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
As I said, there is nothing about this that benefits the player. Let’s have CreationPacks with 3 random character appearances. Let’s have race packs that give you 3 random race/sex tokens you can use to make that type of character. Let’s have StartingKingdom packs that let you start in a random Kingdom...
I mean.. I’m buying an appearance, race, and Kingdom so I get what I get and won’t get upset right?
If this was just about seeding the world with slightly more powerful characters then there is no need for a SoulPack. Just do it in game.
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Comments
Regarding Soul Packs - They are "loot boxes" in the same way CCGs are "Loot boxes."
Feel free to search Discord. I’m on my phone.
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People were just ignorant to the facts.
Any game taking that level of money post production (with a sub as an exception), is prioritizing money over all else.....which is fine, they are a business. However, when money becomes the most important factor in terms of gameplay, it makes the game crap. Proper post production revenue systems (save sub), can be seen within games like GW2.
They're not going to settle for a "ordinary" soul if there's an opportunity to buy a "top dog" from somebody else. Money talks...
According to pledges and community in CoE, there is already a very large demographic that is eager to play CoE the way it is being developed. And no game out there is going to please everyone.
Now it sounds like we have him thinking about ways to mitigate it.
Again... PROGRESS!
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Wouldn't that be average of $1 000 to get one? Or am I missing something here?
If you did please let me know and I will admit my mistake.
(I'm also on my phone so can't do a proper search).
No more drunk posting for me!
Edit- LOL now I don't remember. It made sense earlier. Something about from my perspective. I buy 50 SoulCrates. Thats $500
I have a 1% chance of getting a special one in each pack
On average.. in my 50 I have a 50% chance of getting one. I might get zero. I might get 3...
Math + BBQs do not generally mix though so of course thats wrong (50% chance does not mean average). Sorry for confusing people
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Caspian Said: But - if "rare and powerful" souls show up maybe 1 in 100 packs, or 1 in 1,000 and it's not known it's a "rare and powerful" soul until 10 hours into playing it
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/472432/do-soulpacks-lootboxes/p5#ByaWEA91XhzLE3ZV.99All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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If you have a 99% chance to get your nickle back, and a 1% chance to get a dime.. it's not gambling, as there is no risk involved and you never lose. That is not "Gambling" by any sane persons standard, and even a few nut jobs would not consider that a gamble.
Same with Soul Boxes, If you are guaranteed to get 3 souls with each purchase, it's not a gamble or a risk of what you will get, you will get exactly what you paid for, 3 souls.
There is a chance at getting a higher tier soul, but that is not a gamble and you will always get your 10 dollars worth of souls, regardless of the outcome, the Unique or Old Souls are a bonus reward.
So Once Again, if put a Nickel into the Machine and 99% of the time you get your Nickle Back, and 1% chance to get a Dime.. you are not gambling, as you never take a risk and never lose.
But as we saw above my math is not the best today.
Your soul comparison though is not the same because I am not buying the soulpack with a soul. (a nickle for a nickle). The souls may be worthless to me... have zero value unless they are the exact skill I want and the rarity I want. This is why I personally hate lootboxes. If I want to buy something let me just freaking buy it. Put a real price on it.
BUT... as long as they are clear that it's lootboxes you are buying... then go for it. If you like the random chance I won;t stop you. Just make sure people know what they are getting into.
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I think we can all expect that's how it'll go. Once they are available to buy, all of this kind of information should be available.
I don't think it's a big deal unless of course the item description for soul packs in the store will read something like: "You get what you get and don't throw a fit."
Again as far as lootboxes go I think most could agree that a slight edge in crafting/gathering/enter skill here is better than lootboxes with OP gear
Edit P.S
I'd also like to point out for those that don't know. There isn't a centralized "auction house" either. So my alchemist won't be competing with yours directly unless we happened to both be in the same Hamlet/Town/City. This will help create diverse localized economies that'll be pretty cool imho.
Also, as far as from what I understand you will also specialize too. For instance my blacksmith if I spend all my time making shields would end up making some awesome shields. Where if you spend all your time making helmets then you'll make some amazing helmets. With that, again this is my understanding, if we did this and we were both at 55 smithing we would make a straight sword equal to one another but my shields would be better than yours while your helmets are better than mine.
But that's not so important to the conversation.
We agree in principle... and getting Caspien to admit they are lootboxes is PROGRESS!
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I guess to me the reason why it's not a big deal is because I just can't invest the same amount of time into my games like I would in my former years.
So even if we all started with the exact same skill level at the exact same time with the exact same ramps; I would still be far behind my competitive Crafters and such because I simply wouldn't have the same amount of time to invest in my character as said competing Crafters
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Willy Wonka and the Magic Chocolate Factory.
Now Wonka had this great idea to hide some magic tickets in his candy bars, and reward some lucky people.
Now, that was not gambling. Some people may mistake it for a gamble, and while it is a game of chance, it is not a gamble as there no risk to the person that buys the candy bar.
Now some people obsessed with getting the ticket might think that not getting the ticket is the risk, but that is not the case because, no matter what you got your money worth of candy.
Even if all you got was the candy bar you still broke even.
That is because You were not buying a Golden Ticket, you were not buying a chance at a Golden Ticket, you were buying a candy bar.
As such, ticket or not, you still an even return for your money spent. Hence the 99% chance of getting your nickle back.
You will at the very least get your monies worth in goods, no matter what happens.
Now. Willy Wonka is a good example of how this plays out and the kind of people that get into these things.
And that is exactly what is going on here, buying 3 souls would be 10 dollars, no matter what. So, no matter what happens when you open the Soul Crate, you are getting your monies worth in souls.
Now, If you don't want or need souls, then you really need to ask yourself why you are buying more of them.
If you are dumping your money into this plan in hopes to get some special or unique soul, like Nut Heiress in the Willy Wonka story, that is purely upon you, but, that does not change that you still got your monies worth in souls, regardless if you wanted them or not.
Now, supposedly there will be a trade in for souls for those with money to blow and bought many of them. Now, no one gets more or less then 3 souls a box, so, that exchange is open to anyone who wants to do it, nothing stopping you from buying souls just to trade them in for other things also, as everyone pays the same for souls.
Hell, for all I know, Souls might become the In-Game "Tokens" that players use to buy stuff from the store.. you know.. when that gets put in.. because.. we all know it's going to happen.
You can say "Well you are buying a piece of candy and got one so be happy"
I would say "I want a freaking chocolate bar why would I have to buy a box that may or may not have a chocolate bar in it"?
I don't need random pieces of candy... I want chocolate bars damnit!
When you buy a SoulPack its going to have 3 random souls around a motiff.. That may be something like Warrior. So I get one soul that is basic unarmed. I get another 2 that are Strong and tend to swords. Great... I actually wanted a guy that would use a mace and be more dexterous. You gave me 1 piece of gum and 2 candy apples but no chocolate bars...
(and yes the example above is made up so please don't tell me there are no "Warrior" packs. We know. But they ARE selling packs with random souls around motifs)
Sure you can say that I can force my soul into any shape I want by just using those skills. Yup, but that's not the point damn it. Just let me buy what I want! (or not buy... just create what i want)
Let me put it to you this way. What benefit does randomizing my character's soul add to me, the player? Why spend all that time showcasing character creation but then draw the line at the soul? Would it be good if you just bought a "Brudvyr" CreationPack and got 3 random character appearances to choose from? They will all be Brudvyr.. but not quite what you want. But hey.. you paid for 3 appearances and you got 3!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For your analogy to run true they would have to say.
Ok here is your box it might have a soul in it, but it might be a spark, a sword or a pet.
They are all digital items but not the item you want, your buying a soul pack so you want souls, just because you don't like the soul means nothing.
If someone "requires" an Old Soul (as in nothing else will satisfy), any any other type of soul received will have no value to the person. As such, it is unquestionably a gamble. It is even more so if only a specific Old Soul will do.
But I will put this another way,
My children like the mystery packs (different types but doesn't matter which one).
I buy them the pack knowing it includes a small toy, now my children want a toy they don't have. Even if they don't get a toy they want they still get a toy to the monetay value I have paid.
If this was counted as gambling how do you think the regulators would view this? especially since its aimed at children.
You like that random chance... go for it. As long as they admit what they are doing and give you the information to gamble on the result that’s great.
As I said, there is nothing about this that benefits the player. Let’s have CreationPacks with 3 random character appearances. Let’s have race packs that give you 3 random race/sex tokens you can use to make that type of character. Let’s have StartingKingdom packs that let you start in a random Kingdom...
I mean.. I’m buying an appearance, race, and Kingdom so I get what I get and won’t get upset right?
If this was just about seeding the world with slightly more powerful characters then there is no need for a SoulPack. Just do it in game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018