Blizzard Exploring How AI Can Target & Punish Toxic Players - Overwatch - MMORPG.com

mmrv · April 2018

SBFord said:

Siveria said:

I honestly think players need to stop being wimps and learn to grow thicker skin when on the internet myself. So many people these days are offended by the dumbest stuff. "Whaaaa some random person i'm probally never going to meet again hurt mah feels, wahhh need to cry to support about it"

Honestly? best way to handle it? ban them. 3 strikes your out system, first is a warning, 2nd is a 3-7 day ban, and the third strike? permaban, because if they haven't learned after the first 2 strikes they aren't going to learn at all.

This "excuse" for bad behavior is getting so tiresome. There's this thing called sportsmanship -- not that tempers don't get heated, not that words aren't sometimes exchanged. Those aren't the ones that need to go.

The people that all of these game developers are targeting make a habit out of being bullies. It's their thing and telling people that they just have to "grow a thicker skin" is dismissing behavior that in any other context would not be tolerated and trying to somehow "blame" people for being bullied. No.

In light of this overall topic, this is good reading:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/03/riot-blizzard-and-twitch-are-teaming-up-to-fight-toxic-gaming-behaviour/

The excuse for tyrannical oppression is also getting tiresome. People have chat filters and the ability to mute others, bad behavior is beyond subjective and that is the problem. Stop trying to manufacture "bullying". Some random joe on the internet saying "mean things like "you suck" is not bullying, and further more in almost every case the user has the ability to opt in or out of the chat and my god YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ THE TEXT TYPED int he first place. Stop playing the blame game and start taking responsibility. Because we all know how it goes and in almost every case of "bad behavior" in a game the supposed victim sticks out their chin and dares you slap it over and over with their own version of replies instead of ignore mute etc... instead of engaging it.

SBFord · April 2018

mmrv said:

SBFord said:

Siveria said:

I honestly think players need to stop being wimps and learn to grow thicker skin when on the internet myself. So many people these days are offended by the dumbest stuff. "Whaaaa some random person i'm probally never going to meet again hurt mah feels, wahhh need to cry to support about it"

Honestly? best way to handle it? ban them. 3 strikes your out system, first is a warning, 2nd is a 3-7 day ban, and the third strike? permaban, because if they haven't learned after the first 2 strikes they aren't going to learn at all.

This "excuse" for bad behavior is getting so tiresome. There's this thing called sportsmanship -- not that tempers don't get heated, not that words aren't sometimes exchanged. Those aren't the ones that need to go.

The people that all of these game developers are targeting make a habit out of being bullies. It's their thing and telling people that they just have to "grow a thicker skin" is dismissing behavior that in any other context would not be tolerated and trying to somehow "blame" people for being bullied. No.

In light of this overall topic, this is good reading:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/03/riot-blizzard-and-twitch-are-teaming-up-to-fight-toxic-gaming-behaviour/

The excuse for tyrannical oppression is also getting tiresome. People have chat filters and the ability to mute others, bad behavior is beyond subjective and that is the problem. Stop trying to manufacture "bullying". Some random joe on the internet saying "mean things like "you suck" is not bullying, and further more in almost every case the user has the ability to opt in or out of the chat and my god YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ THE TEXT TYPED int he first place. Stop playing the blame game and start taking responsibility. Because we all know how it goes and in almost every case of "bad behavior" in a game the supposed victim sticks out their chin and dares you slap it over and over with their own version of replies instead of ignore mute etc... instead of engaging it.

Why should the "victim" of abuse have to just shut up and take it and be the one to apply the fixes? Why shouldn't the asshole take responsibility for being an asshole? Why shouldn't Blizzard try to rein in this obviously systemic problem? It's not like it's 1 or 2 people. It's game-wide and it's a problem.

There are so many other parallels to this whole discussion but they're not worth bringing in so that we can keep this thread open. The only thing I will say is this: NEVER blame the victim whether it's in a game or in some other situation.

Sovrath · April 2018

mmrv said:

SBFord said:

Siveria said:

I honestly think players need to stop being wimps and learn to grow thicker skin when on the internet myself. So many people these days are offended by the dumbest stuff. "Whaaaa some random person i'm probally never going to meet again hurt mah feels, wahhh need to cry to support about it"

Honestly? best way to handle it? ban them. 3 strikes your out system, first is a warning, 2nd is a 3-7 day ban, and the third strike? permaban, because if they haven't learned after the first 2 strikes they aren't going to learn at all.

This "excuse" for bad behavior is getting so tiresome. There's this thing called sportsmanship -- not that tempers don't get heated, not that words aren't sometimes exchanged. Those aren't the ones that need to go.

The people that all of these game developers are targeting make a habit out of being bullies. It's their thing and telling people that they just have to "grow a thicker skin" is dismissing behavior that in any other context would not be tolerated and trying to somehow "blame" people for being bullied. No.

In light of this overall topic, this is good reading:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/03/riot-blizzard-and-twitch-are-teaming-up-to-fight-toxic-gaming-behaviour/

The excuse for tyrannical oppression is also getting tiresome. People have chat filters and the ability to mute others, bad behavior is beyond subjective and that is the problem. Stop trying to manufacture "bullying". Some random joe on the internet saying "mean things like "you suck" is not bullying, and further more in almost every case the user has the ability to opt in or out of the chat and my god YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ THE TEXT TYPED int he first place. Stop playing the blame game and start taking responsibility. Because we all know how it goes and in almost every case of "bad behavior" in a game the supposed victim sticks out their chin and dares you slap it over and over with their own version of replies instead of ignore mute etc... instead of engaging it.

Like I said above, "it doesn't matter". It seems that more companies are kind of done with that.

You say the user has the ability to opt out of chat? Well, apparently these companies want to opt out of a certain type of person. Problem solved.

And again "the irony" stop blaming others and take your own responsibility. If you walk in a bank you usually adopt a certain behavior. Same with any number of other institutions or public places.

If you can "contain yourself" there then you can certainly contain yourself "virtually".

Or maybe the issue is that you are so angry that you have to behave in public that the internet gives you a release to be your true self.

That's great. I'm more than sure there are places on the internet that will welcome you.

knightsbayne · April 2018

People commenting here looking for justification for being mean and hurtful instead of finding solutions to make fellow gamers' experiences better speaks volumes about the mindset. You want to right to make someone miserable? All it takes is one harshly worded sentence to ruin an entire game forever for another person. If that really what you want to debate for? To be able to make someone quit a game? To make them depressed and anxious? And if that person is autistic and already has social issues that took months or years of therapy to achieve the level of social interaction you just ruined? Words have consequences. You're still responsible for their effect, whether your willing to accept that or. You can logic your way out for yourself if you want, but you are responsible for the effects your words have. If your right to be that kind of person is really your primary concern and something you want to actively fight for, well, think about that for a second.

[Deleted User] · April 2018

The user and all related content has been deleted.

k61977 · April 2018

IceAge said:

ianicus said:

IceAge said:

I am one of the .. "toxic" players sometimes.

I mean, you see bad players, you tell them "go Quick Match , why do you play ranked?" They go "Because is fun" , I tell them "This is about ranking before fun, so gtfo" . They then go "FUUUUCKU , reported" . I mean really ?!

I will bash bad players which go ranking because "Is just a game and is fun in ranking" anytime. If is just a game, go Quick Match. If you want to compete, go Ranked. Simple as that.

And I swear they need a system to allow or not , players to play in Ranking, based on some factors, and/or , make a strictly League with Rankings for "Casuals" , who wants to have ...fun and also have a .. ranking system.

This isnt the olympics, its a video game. They arent messing with your qualification score for worlds or anything, its.just.a.game. Take the good matches with the bad and chill out.

Read what I said. Competitive is exactly what it means. C.o.m.p.e.t.i.t.i.v

And actually , the mode in Overwatch it reads " Competitive Play " aka .. "olympics" for you to understand better. If is just a game and people wants to have fun, there is ALWAYS Quick Play & Arcade modes. You got it now? Good.

Is like you are playing in a competitive football team , and your team gives everything, and you are like "Relax boys! Is just a game" . You'll then receive some slaps I'm sure.

Anyway , this print was taken no more then 10 mins ago : https://imgur.com/a/iIkjR . So yeah!

Even if it is a competitive match it doesn't give you the right or anyone else the right to belittle someone period. They might be doing their best, they may have a physical limitation that is holding them back but they still want to play. Sorry but your competitive argument is part of the problem. You feel like you get to decide how someone else plays, well you don't. Personally if I play a competitive game and someone starts talking crap I just stop trying and watch that person get madder and madder because guess what it is a game. The only time I could see someone truly being able to use that argument and it matter is if they were in a tournament on a company sponsored team, that is it.

Xenoska · April 2018

So most people are advocating for 'safe spaces' and hard punishment towards anyone being mean? Kids can't handle banter now a days huh. All this'll do is breed weak people who get offended by anything negative.

Remember kids, socialism kills.

k61977 · April 2018

You want to know the easiest way to stop toxic behavior in games, remove the ability to have animity on the internet. That is the only true way to stop it. Link all games to actual people. Unfortunately that can't be done in today's world to many ways to circumvent it, but maybe one day. Just imagine you had to talk and interact with people with them knowing who you are and where you live, doubt half the people would act like they do.

Amathe · April 2018

I am reminded of the automatic computerized fines in Demolition Man [caution language]:

SBFord · April 2018

Warhawke80 said:

This may ramble a bit but.....

As a former Guild member of Jeff's I find it ironic that "Tigole Bitties" Is talking about toxic anything...he pretty much wrote the book on Toxicity in gaming back in the day. In any event I think we should give tools to the players to decide what type of speech the care to hear. It seems fashionable to label anyone you disagree with as an assshole and honestly compared to how bad in game chat use to be, the whole Big Brother approach seems a day late and a dollar short.

The big scary part of this is if AI is handling moderation that allows the developer to remove themselves from responsibility, and they can say "I didn't ban you the SJW5000 banned you."

No this isn't going to end well, the generation right behind this current perpetually outraged and offended generation is shaping up to be the polar opposite, combine those with the vast majority of 80"s and 90's gamers and you have a very large demographic. Sure game developers can follow the comic industry and say "we don't want that demographics money" The same thing will happen to gaming that happen'd to comics.

socprogs only gather at what is the trending two minuets of hate; when they move to the next fashionable outrage, developers that bought into this will be left holding the bag, actual gamers have long memories and a penchant for revenge....if you don't believe me have a chat with Bill Roper sometimes.

Please don't bring the whole political thing into this with your sly hints at "SJW" and so forth. It's a spirited and interesting discussion without that stuff.

As to the upcoming generation that is leading this country to true reform in a number of crucial areas: You can bet that they will be the ones to find the solution to toxicity in all its forms and locations, even in games that are an integral part of their lives. They've been inspirational to those of us who perhaps dozed in complacency for too long.

As for Kaplan, perhaps "in the day" he was a toxic player. But we all grow, learn and change. I'd hate to be judged now solely on the things I did in years past.

k61977 · April 2018

mmrv said:

SBFord said:

CondarFreed said:

See the future and weep. AI created to suppress freedom of speech. Coming soon to the entire internet. I really do hate what's happening these days.

1) Being an asshole isn't "freedom of speech". It's being an asshole.
2) Do you even understand the historical and legal definition of freedom of speech?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States
3) There's this thing called Terms of Service. Read it and see what you've agreed to.
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/42673

Clearly its you that lacks the understanding of freedom.

1) Being an a-hole is 100% subjective and in the current PC environment we are suffering through that can factually mean "anything under the sun is being an a-hole". In fact I find your response pretty much exactly what an a-hole would reply with. So I would wager you wouldn't be happy with me deciding what speech is acceptable or not would you?

2) I personally do and what you find is as progressive politically correct wackos push the envelope further and further that they are redefining what freedom of speech from its original inception via "lawyering and political agendas".

Freedom of speech in its original inception was just that the FREEDOM TO SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT regardless of who likes it or not. As time passes far left progressive marxists are trying every day to limit those freedoms and define speech to limit speech to only what they believe it should be. Its communism 101.

In the end i find these companies trying to control peoples right to free speech unacceptable. Put in the proper tools and let the users "Define" the speech they want to be exposed to. Give me word filters and the ability to mute people, there is no excuse for me to them be subjected to any speech i find offensive as I can mute or filter said speech. Its a shocker i know how dare i suggest people be responsible for themselves.

This all is very dangerous infringements on basic human rights and freedoms, being having a small group of people decide what speech is "hate speech" or as you say being an a-hole" and then being empowered to control and punish those who do not obey their "laws". As I demonstrated in point one where i decided your entire response was being an a-hole now you should lose your job and I will start a boycott campaign on your advertisers....ya sorry I will never support that type of tyranny. It all starts with a terms of service on a game, and before you know it you are clicking a term of service to access the internet...I don;t care what your terms of service alphabet soup says you cant ask people to sign away basic human rights imho.

Do you think it is proper to allow an adult to tell a young kid to go kill themselves because that kid didn't live their stupid standards in a video game? Guessing you do. There is this thing called common sense, human decency, and manners that a lot of people just seem to forget these days to be honest. You have the right to say whatever the hell you want and others have a right to moderate you when you loose your damn mind and human decency also. To many people forget that they are talking to people and tend to act in ways they never would if they were in front of that same person in real life. That is the issue.

kitarad · April 2018

My problem is that I cannot understand why people have to talk or write like that. This is what as a person from an older generation I am unable fathom. It does not make your point more relevant because you swear, curse and threaten bodily injury against another person.

People need to exercise self control like they do in real life. If you will not speak like that and be considered acceptable by others or without getting your nose bent I do not see why that same standard cannot be applied to online chat.

I feel people need to be disciplined. The lack of discipline at home and general lack of courtesy needs to be addressed. If your argument is that you speak like that to your own mother and father than my friend it's about time you were dealt with by others who have no wish to listen to that type of talk or read that type of text.

If your parents have not taught you the proper way to behave than I will use the tools afforded to me in an online game to teach you a lesson you well deserve so that you might become a proper individual. The sad thing about the misuse of freedom of speech to include general bad behaviour by people who are hiding behind their anonymity has to be dealt with.

tomek2626 · April 2018

as so caled toxic player i demand that sinc today i got option in eny game to not play whit cry bebys i wone play with mature players that can stand when som tel them thay suck and not cry and start spam you raported you raported when som stet thay game play suck so giv me option so i get matched whit players who cant stand crticims and not with som snofleks cry bebys this method can be both ways cry bebys players can chek this option so tahy wil be only matched whit cry bebys players this way we get separated and the toxic player term wil stop exist

Seelinnikoi · April 2018

I am the type of person that if possible, would make dissapear all the prisons and the people encarcerated within.

So you can imagine my stance on toxic players.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing.
Want to be a bully? Go ahead.
What to say whatever is on your mind? Go ahead.

But be prepared for the consequences.
Death penalty for any and all crimes. See how long bad behaviour would last.

SBFord · April 2018

kitarad said:

My problem is that I cannot understand why people have to talk or write like that. This is what as a person from an older generation I am unable fathom. It does not make your point more relevant because you swear, curse and threaten bodily injury against another person.

People need to exercise self control like they do in real life. If you will not speak like that and be considered acceptable by others or without getting your nose bent I do not see why that same standard cannot be applied to online chat.

I feel people need to be disciplined. The lack of discipline at home and general lack of courtesy needs to be addressed. If your argument is that you speak like that to your own mother and father than my friend it's about time you were dealt with by others who have no wish to listen to that type of talk or read that type of text.

If your parents have not taught you the proper way to behave than I will use the tools afforded to me to teach you a lesson you well deserve so that you might become a proper individual.

You know what I'm always reminded of? We put filters on our behavior and language in all sorts of situations. But I use the "gramma" or "mom" litmus test: If I wouldn't say it to them and I'd be horrifically angry if someone said it to them, then I keep my mouth shut. There are other ways to make your point than grotesque profanity or through frightening threats. When did people stop exercising any form of self-control?

All we really need to remember is that innocent dude who was killed recently in a "swatting prank" to see that toxicity in gaming has reached a horrifying zenith.

kitarad · April 2018

Exactly @SBFord I also cannot understand why it has descended to this current level where people are actually defending their right to simply say and write whatever they wish without any filters.

orionblade11 · April 2018

k61977 said:

You want to know the easiest way to stop toxic behavior in games, remove the ability to have animity on the internet. That is the only true way to stop it. Link all games to actual people. Unfortunately that can't be done in today's world to many ways to circumvent it, but maybe one day. Just imagine you had to talk and interact with people with them knowing who you are and where you live, doubt half the people would act like they do.

I agree

jitter77 · April 2018

IceAge said:

ianicus said:

IceAge said:

I am one of the .. "toxic" players sometimes.

I mean, you see bad players, you tell them "go Quick Match , why do you play ranked?" They go "Because is fun" , I tell them "This is about ranking before fun, so gtfo" . They then go "FUUUUCKU , reported" . I mean really ?!

I will bash bad players which go ranking because "Is just a game and is fun in ranking" anytime. If is just a game, go Quick Match. If you want to compete, go Ranked. Simple as that.

And I swear they need a system to allow or not , players to play in Ranking, based on some factors, and/or , make a strictly League with Rankings for "Casuals" , who wants to have ...fun and also have a .. ranking system.

This isnt the olympics, its a video game. They arent messing with your qualification score for worlds or anything, its.just.a.game. Take the good matches with the bad and chill out.

Read what I said. Competitive is exactly what it means. C.o.m.p.e.t.i.t.i.v

And actually , the mode in Overwatch it reads " Competitive Play " aka .. "olympics" for you to understand better. If is just a game and people wants to have fun, there is ALWAYS Quick Play & Arcade modes. You got it now? Good.

Is like you are playing in a competitive football team , and your team gives everything, and you are like "Relax boys! Is just a game" . You'll then receive some slaps I'm sure.

Anyway , this print was taken no more then 10 mins ago : https://imgur.com/a/iIkjR . So yeah!

Based on your logic if you buy the game players can do what they want or play whatever mode they want.

IceAge · April 2018

orionblade11 said:

k61977 said:

You want to know the easiest way to stop toxic behavior in games, remove the ability to have animity on the internet. That is the only true way to stop it. Link all games to actual people. Unfortunately that can't be done in today's world to many ways to circumvent it, but maybe one day. Just imagine you had to talk and interact with people with them knowing who you are and where you live, doubt half the people would act like they do.

I agree

Wrong. The day internet anonymous is gone, the world is doomed.

I can be an asshole in real life too , in a bar, in a club , you name it, without people knowing my name, address, etc. Being toxic in real life or on the internet is not equal to being a bad person or a threat to someone. Exactly like in real life, on the internet you have the option to /ignore /mute the person. I don't get it , why people who feels offended by *you name it* online , does not ignore the person.

Anyway , makes sense now? Good..

Amathe · April 2018

Oh, as a footnote (and as SBFord correctly points out) freedom of speech is a Constitutional right not to be silenced by the government. It affords no protection from limitations on speech imposed by the terms of service of a private website (like this one) or by a game (such as Overwatch). Even in its proper context, it has limitations (no yelling fire in a crowded theater, etc).

MadFrenchie · April 2018

IceAge said:

orionblade11 said:

k61977 said:

You want to know the easiest way to stop toxic behavior in games, remove the ability to have animity on the internet. That is the only true way to stop it. Link all games to actual people. Unfortunately that can't be done in today's world to many ways to circumvent it, but maybe one day. Just imagine you had to talk and interact with people with them knowing who you are and where you live, doubt half the people would act like they do.

I agree

Wrong. The day internet anonymous is gone, the world is doomed.

I can be an asshole in real life too , in a bar, in a club , you name it, without people knowing my name, address, etc. Being toxic in real life or on the internet is not equal to being a bad person or a threat to someone. Exactly like in real life, on the internet you have the option to /ignore /mute the person. I don't get it , why people who feels offended by *you name it* online , does not ignore the person.

Anyway , makes sense now? Good..

In real life, I have the option of beating anyone who says something offensive senseless. Oddly enough, I don't run into folks who say those kinds of things in public. Wonder why that is?

vorathian · April 2018

* mod edit *

Mendel · April 2018

CondarFreed said:

See the future and weep. AI created to suppress freedom of speech. Coming soon to the entire internet. I really do hate what's happening these days.

Rather than seeing this as some means to suppress freedom of speech (which you didn't seem to get right anyway), think of it as using AI to supply the consequences.

IceAge · April 2018

MadFrenchie said:

IceAge said:

orionblade11 said:

k61977 said:

You want to know the easiest way to stop toxic behavior in games, remove the ability to have animity on the internet. That is the only true way to stop it. Link all games to actual people. Unfortunately that can't be done in today's world to many ways to circumvent it, but maybe one day. Just imagine you had to talk and interact with people with them knowing who you are and where you live, doubt half the people would act like they do.

I agree

Wrong. The day internet anonymous is gone, the world is doomed.

I can be an asshole in real life too , in a bar, in a club , you name it, without people knowing my name, address, etc. Being toxic in real life or on the internet is not equal to being a bad person or a threat to someone. Exactly like in real life, on the internet you have the option to /ignore /mute the person. I don't get it , why people who feels offended by *you name it* online , does not ignore the person.

Anyway , makes sense now? Good..

In real life, I have the option of beating anyone who says something offensive senseless. Oddly enough, I don't run into folks who say those kinds of things in public. Wonder why that is?

You would not beat me, but that's another story.

You missed my point and you typically reply with non-senses. Not anyone has that.."option" , Bruce Lee. Keep wondering "why is that".

k61977 · April 2018

IceAge said:

orionblade11 said:

k61977 said:

You want to know the easiest way to stop toxic behavior in games, remove the ability to have animity on the internet. That is the only true way to stop it. Link all games to actual people. Unfortunately that can't be done in today's world to many ways to circumvent it, but maybe one day. Just imagine you had to talk and interact with people with them knowing who you are and where you live, doubt half the people would act like they do.

I agree

Wrong. The day internet anonymous is gone, the world is doomed.

I can be an asshole in real life too , in a bar, in a club , you name it, without people knowing my name, address, etc. Being toxic in real life or on the internet is not equal to being a bad person or a threat to someone. Exactly like in real life, on the internet you have the option to /ignore /mute the person. I don't get it , why people who feels offended by *you name it* online , does not ignore the person.

Anyway , makes sense now? Good..

Why would the world be doomed, please expand on that? The idea that you wouldn't be able to act a certain way without everyone knowing it was you would doom the world. Nope it wouldn't, instead people would be held accountable for their actions. Personally think that would be a better world. And yes you can be an asshole in real life, but in real life a person can also respond and take out the trash. Yeah being a toxic person is the same thing as being a bad person, most toxic people are bullies in real life, or have no real life and can't handle real life and act out if confronted.

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