I ran a test, the results are not good

Utinni · February 2020

Quizzical said:

Cryomatrix said:
2) As someone who works in healthcare, yes there are problems and health insurance companies are a big problem, but i as a human being, i couldnt deny a person healthcare if I could do something about it. Are u guys okay letting someone suffer because they cant pay for healthcare?

Healthcare should be a right for everyone, the compassion that America has is amazing for people. As a doctor, i have offered to pay for medications for my patients sometimes if the insurance company or medicaid/medicare is being stupid.

The political questions about health care are not about whether everyone should get the health care that they need.

There in lies the issue. Health shouldn't be political.

Avarix · February 2020

Quizzical said:

If you say yes, all of that health care should be provided even to people who can't pay for it, then the question of how to pay for it becomes very difficult.

Take it out of our military budget. Done.

I don't agree with most of what was said about Guild Wars 2 earlier in the thread about how it has everything going for it. I completely disagree. However, I do agree about the art/graphics. They're still my favorite in the genre. It's a beautiful game.

Scot · February 2020

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

Iselin · February 2020

Quizzical said:

Cryomatrix said:
2) As someone who works in healthcare, yes there are problems and health insurance companies are a big problem, but i as a human being, i couldnt deny a person healthcare if I could do something about it. Are u guys okay letting someone suffer because they cant pay for healthcare?

Healthcare should be a right for everyone, the compassion that America has is amazing for people. As a doctor, i have offered to pay for medications for my patients sometimes if the insurance company or medicaid/medicare is being stupid.

The political questions about health care are not about whether everyone should get the health care that they need. There is broad agreement all across the political spectrum that yes, everyone should get good quality health care. Rather, the real questions are:

1) How should health care be provided?
2) How should health care be paid for?
3) Under what circumstances is it acceptable to deny health care to save money?

On (3), there are a lot of things that everyone would say, yeah, they have to be able to get that health care. But there are also a lot of cases where it is more debatable. For example:

1) What about alternative medicine, such as chiropractic or acupuncture? Do people have a right to that, whether they can pay or not? Where do you draw the line as to what is likely to be how effective? Who decides?
2) What about people who are almost certainly going to die anyway? Is it worth spending a bunch of money to extend their lives by a week or a month?
3) What about people who brought huge medical expenses on themselves with egregiously reckless behavior? Should people who were responsible be obligated to pay for organ transplants for a drug addict who ruined his own body? How about treatments for a diabetic who refuses to watch what he eats and suffers the consequences? Someone who developed lung cancer after smoking two packs of cigarettes per day for 40 years?

If you say yes, all of that health care should be provided even to people who can't pay for it, then the question of how to pay for it becomes very difficult.

You're paralyzing yourselves by overthinking this. It's not like all of those edge cases and many more don't also exist and have been addressed in all the countries that do have universal healthcare.

I feel sorry for you guys in the states having to cripple yourselves financially when you run into unexpected medical and hospital expenses. I can't imagine what it does to your psyche having that hanging over your heads as a real possibility. It's one less thing we need to worry about in Canada.

As to your points:

#1 is not part of our basic system although there are many insurance companies that provide that coverage that we call "extended health" and it's a fairly common benefit in limited amounts per year for employees up here.

#2 is a medical decision.

#3 is a perfect example of an ad absurdum argument since anyone's life style can be examined and made to apply if your inclination is to exclude coverage.

Amathe · February 2020

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Ungood · February 2020

Ok, I'll bite on one of these things.

As a contractor, you have a budget to build a house, you can prime and plan what kind of house you can build with your budget, but at the end of the day, you need to know your buying market that will be in the price range for that house before you start slapping together 2x4's and sheet rock.

What this means, is you might not want to push for the vaulted ceiling with the 2 story bay window, even if you could fit it in with the funds, because it won't be an attractive sale point to the market that would buy that house in that price range, and you would be better off using that money to put in a half-bath.

In gaming terms, this means if you want to build a PvP game, you should focus on first building the best PvP game you can, and not waste money bogging it down with pointless PvE grinds, that simply waste money and don't build your market demographic.

Equally so, using a PvP game, combat animations, and targeting are going to be king, you can bypass the million and one dye channels and not worry about fancy hats, and focus on making a simple, yet solid model, and put the remainder of your work into combat animations and the like.

This is why graphics need to fit the game they are playing.

To use an example. Crowfall, I like the models, they are perfectly simple and ideal for a large scale battle game, where too much 'graphic fluff' is not profitable to the players or the game builder, to toning things down is a perfect move. Equally so, Crowfall currently has awkward and what feels like incomplete combat animations, which really pull away from the idea that this is a game that is all about PvP.

To use another example. Eternal Crusade is built on the 40K Table Top game, and in 40K table top, an Ultramarine is an Ultramarine, they have a standard look, standard color scheme (Smurf blue), and standard icons for their units, so, in the case of Eternal Crusade, where all Ultramarine players looking roughly the same... is legit, what the game looks like on the table top.

This is what I was talking about when I said the graphics need to fit the game.

Equally so, like anything, Graphics are the first thing anyone sees to gauge if they like it, and if the graphics are sub-par, well, as a game developer, you need to take that into consideration and maybe rethink how you want your graphic system to work, as nothing looks quite as bad as trying to be top tier graphics and failing, but at the same time, a game like Trove that was like "Screw it, everything Voxel!" it can work.

So like a house builder, you need to ask yourself, is it worth it to put in stone flooring in the bathroom, if that means you won't be able to put get a good painter to do the trim and paintwork.. and lets be honest, even the best built house can be ruined by a bad paint job.

So as a maker of anything, you need to take that all into consideration.

Sovrath · February 2020

Ungood said:

In gaming terms, this means if you want to build a PvP game, you should focus on first building the best PvP game you can, and not waste money bogging it down with pointless PvE grinds, that simply waste money and don't build your market demographic.

Equally so, using a PvP game, combat animations, and targeting are going to be king, you can bypass the million and one dye channels and not worry about fancy hats, and focus on making a simple, yet solid model, and put the remainder of your work into combat animations and the like.

pretty much spot on.

This is an interesting video on Dark Souls and developers essentially knowing their market and making a game precisely for that market.

Myrdynn · February 2020

Healthcare for all works in other countries because

a) they dont have to have a budget to protect the entire free world, they just call daddy to help them if needed

b) they dont develop any medical breakthroughs, live saving medicines, or quite frankly everything

c) they have inferior service (death panels, longer wait times, lower survival rates for serious diseases)

d) America has an obesity problem like nowhere else in the world which raises our costs as well

e) everyone in the US is provided health care, including everyone here illegally if you walk into a hospital

f) nothing is free

g) the govt messes up everything, the last thing I want them to do is determine my healthcare

h) if healthcare for all was provided, companies would get a break and not have to pay premiums, then the left would claim it was only done to give rich corps a break (like the whole tax thing nonsense)

laserit · February 2020

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Hey now...

Eating dirt is good for the immune system.

just sayin

Iselin · February 2020

laserit said:

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Hey now...

Eating dirt is good for the immune system.

just sayin

You've been going to naturopaths I see

blamo2000 · February 2020

I think this issue is great. I hope it deepens and the divide becomes wider and wider. People that tend to value graphics more than anything else are on the opposite end of the spectrum as me, someone who values gameplay and systems more than anything else.

Currently, both of us are market to for the same games. It makes no sense. The chances of me liking a game they like, or vice versa, is nil. In my opinion, their focus on the superficial is infused into all game aspects. So we get Steam labels for nonsense like "Great Sound Track," "Female Protagonist," etc. The biggest example will be the narrative game. Games with little game but chock full o' passive story watching. Or games will little game and but tons of just that little game over and over, like most FPSs.

Witcher 3, or some high-narrative jrpg, which I cannot even comprehend of someone considering to be an rpgs, will be their favorite "rpgs". And they never have heard of most of my favorite games that come out, and would never even try them (like Underrail, et al).

Now, there are a ton of notable exceptions. I think Stardew Valley, Minecraft, and Undertale sold a shitton, and all have really shitty graphics. But those are games aimed at child-audiences. A tier under that would be games like Bounding of Isaac maybe? Still, not nearly my bag of tea.

We are all considered video "gamers" but our hobby could not be more disparate. I hope one day we will be segregated and have our own sites marketing and catering to each of our needs, were we neither have to interact nor argue. There may be some slight overlap once in a while, but not nearly enough where any sensible or reasonable person would consider us to be under the same tent.

Sovrath · February 2020

blamo2000 said:

I think this issue is great. I hope it deepens and the divide becomes wider and wider. People that tend to value graphics more than anything else are on the opposite end of the spectrum as me, someone who values gameplay and systems more than anything else.

Currently, both of us are market to for the same games. It makes no sense. The chances of me liking a game they like, or vice versa, is nil. In my opinion, their focus on the superficial is infused into all game aspects. So we get Steam labels for nonsense like "Great Sound Track," "Female Protagonist," etc. The biggest example will be the narrative game. Games with little game but chock full o' passive story watching. Or games will little game and but tons of just that little game over and over, like most FPSs.

Witcher 3, or some high-narrative jrpg, which I cannot even comprehend of someone considering to be an rpgs, will be their favorite "rpgs". And they never have heard of most of my favorite games that come out, and would never even try them (like Underrail, et al).

Now, there are a ton of notable exceptions. I think Stardew Valley, Minecraft, and Undertale sold a shitton, and all have really shitty graphics. But those are games aimed at child-audiences. A tier under that would be games like Bounding of Isaac maybe? Still, not nearly my bag of tea.

We are all considered video "gamers" but our hobby could not be more disparate. I hope one day we will be segregated and have our own sites marketing and catering to each of our needs, were we neither have to interact nor argue. There may be some slight overlap once in a while, but not nearly enough where any sensible or reasonable person would consider us to be under the same tent.

OR ... we can all acknowledge that people like different things (really? superficial? Let me guess, socks with sandals right?) that we different priorities or preferences and/or genres and just not argue about any of it, just find the games you like and play them.

I swear people are always their own worst enemies.

laserit · February 2020

Ungood said:

Ok, I'll bite on one of these things.

As a contractor, you have a budget to build a house, you can prime and plan what kind of house you can build with your budget, but at the end of the day, you need to know your buying market that will be in the price range for that house before you start slapping together 2x4's and sheet rock.

What this means, is you might not want to push for the vaulted ceiling with the 2 story bay window, even if you could fit it in with the funds, because it won't be an attractive sale point to the market that would buy that house in that price range, and you would be better off using that money to put in a half-bath.

In gaming terms, this means if you want to build a PvP game, you should focus on first building the best PvP game you can, and not waste money bogging it down with pointless PvE grinds, that simply waste money and don't build your market demographic.

Equally so, using a PvP game, combat animations, and targeting are going to be king, you can bypass the million and one dye channels and not worry about fancy hats, and focus on making a simple, yet solid model, and put the remainder of your work into combat animations and the like.

This is why graphics need to fit the game they are playing.

To use an example. Crowfall, I like the models, they are perfectly simple and ideal for a large scale battle game, where too much 'graphic fluff' is not profitable to the players or the game builder, to toning things down is a perfect move. Equally so, Crowfall currently has awkward and what feels like incomplete combat animations, which really pull away from the idea that this is a game that is all about PvP.

To use another example. Eternal Crusade is built on the 40K Table Top game, and in 40K table top, an Ultramarine is an Ultramarine, they have a standard look, standard color scheme (Smurf blue), and standard icons for their units, so, in the case of Eternal Crusade, where all Ultramarine players looking roughly the same... is legit, what the game looks like on the table top.

This is what I was talking about when I said the graphics need to fit the game.

Equally so, like anything, Graphics are the first thing anyone sees to gauge if they like it, and if the graphics are sub-par, well, as a game developer, you need to take that into consideration and maybe rethink how you want your graphic system to work, as nothing looks quite as bad as trying to be top tier graphics and failing, but at the same time, a game like Trove that was like "Screw it, everything Voxel!" it can work.

So like a house builder, you need to ask yourself, is it worth it to put in stone flooring in the bathroom, if that means you won't be able to put get a good painter to do the trim and paintwork.. and lets be honest, even the best built house can be ruined by a bad paint job.

So as a maker of anything, you need to take that all into consideration.

Nice analogy, I really liked it.

The sad truth of the matter is that most buyers only see and care about the paint job and the fixtures and are completely oblivious to whats underneath which in most cases around here anyways is a piece of chip board crap.

delete5230 · February 2020

bestever said:

"Here in America, people want "health care for all" " And we can have it. I can sit here list off a bunch of reasons why WE THE PEOPLE can but I already know you'll just run your mouth with nonsense because you're too fucking stupid to understand how it works and WE the PEOPLE (beside morons like you) know how it'll be paid for but keep playing dumb.

I already pay a fucking tax for healthcare and it's a big tax ($20k a year) that just goes to the CEO's pocket when that money could be used to help people.

Then you proceed to talk about fucking video games as if people's lives depend on them?!?! What the fuck is wrong with you? Your analogy is fucking stupid but what would I expect from a moron.

PLEASE DETELE MY ACCOUNT.

WoW !!!..... I'm floored more so than any other post

Look at his avatar..... Its disgusting, and I guess that's what makes it great how he thought of that

Utinni · February 2020

Myrdynn said:

Healthcare for all works in other countries because

a) they dont have to have a budget to protect the entire free world, they just call daddy to help them if needed

b) they dont develop any medical breakthroughs, live saving medicines, or quite frankly everything

c) they have inferior service (death panels, longer wait times, lower survival rates for serious diseases)

d) America has an obesity problem like nowhere else in the world which raises our costs as well

e) everyone in the US is provided health care, including everyone here illegally if you walk into a hospital

f) nothing is free

g) the govt messes up everything, the last thing I want them to do is determine my healthcare

h) if healthcare for all was provided, companies would get a break and not have to pay premiums, then the left would claim it was only done to give rich corps a break (like the whole tax thing nonsense)

It's like you googled "fox news obama healthcare 2012" and pasted it into the reply box. Billionaires have conditioned you nicely.

Sovrath · February 2020

laserit said:

Nice analogy, I really liked it.

The sad truth of the matter is that most buyers only see and care about the paint job and the fixtures and are completely oblivious to whats underneath which in most cases around here anyways is a piece of chip board crap.

I look at it as they are completely oblivious to another axis that exists and can never know the joy that path brings.

I should add that there does seem to be a conflation of Art Design and "Graphics." and sometimes it's hard to separate them.

Cryomatrix · February 2020

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Well, eating dirt isnt necessarily bad for you, has some essential minerals. Also, PICA is an illness, sometimee caused by anemia, where kids will eat weird stuff like dirt or paper or just munch on ice all the time.

laserit · February 2020

Iselin said:

laserit said:

Amathe said:

Scot said:

Well I think he is commenting on the fact we were not all happy with low quality graphics in the other thread. I am sure many would be, quite possibly enough for an indie MMO, but there is no guarantee. To appeal to a larger audience (and ensure you have enough for an indie MMO) the graphics will need to be decent. It is a balance, not going too far either way seems to be what all the indie MMOs have gone for so far.

@Scot You always look for educational value, even in posts that are complete poop. Someone could say "I like eating dirt," and you will take from that "I think what he is saying is that we all benefit from returning to our core values in Mother earth."

Glad you're here. Sometimes yours is the only sane post to be found.

Hey now...

Eating dirt is good for the immune system.

just sayin

You've been going to naturopaths I see

They're selling me all natural organic dirt for $25 a kilo

Namaste

alkarionlog · February 2020

Iselin said:

Quizzical said:

Cryomatrix said:
2) As someone who works in healthcare, yes there are problems and health insurance companies are a big problem, but i as a human being, i couldnt deny a person healthcare if I could do something about it. Are u guys okay letting someone suffer because they cant pay for healthcare?

Healthcare should be a right for everyone, the compassion that America has is amazing for people. As a doctor, i have offered to pay for medications for my patients sometimes if the insurance company or medicaid/medicare is being stupid.

The political questions about health care are not about whether everyone should get the health care that they need. There is broad agreement all across the political spectrum that yes, everyone should get good quality health care. Rather, the real questions are:

1) How should health care be provided?
2) How should health care be paid for?
3) Under what circumstances is it acceptable to deny health care to save money?

On (3), there are a lot of things that everyone would say, yeah, they have to be able to get that health care. But there are also a lot of cases where it is more debatable. For example:

1) What about alternative medicine, such as chiropractic or acupuncture? Do people have a right to that, whether they can pay or not? Where do you draw the line as to what is likely to be how effective? Who decides?
2) What about people who are almost certainly going to die anyway? Is it worth spending a bunch of money to extend their lives by a week or a month?
3) What about people who brought huge medical expenses on themselves with egregiously reckless behavior? Should people who were responsible be obligated to pay for organ transplants for a drug addict who ruined his own body? How about treatments for a diabetic who refuses to watch what he eats and suffers the consequences? Someone who developed lung cancer after smoking two packs of cigarettes per day for 40 years?

If you say yes, all of that health care should be provided even to people who can't pay for it, then the question of how to pay for it becomes very difficult.

You're paralyzing yourselves by overthinking this. It's not like all of those edge cases and many more don't also exist and have been addressed in all the countries that do have universal healthcare.

I feel sorry for you guys in the states having to cripple yourselves financially when you run into unexpected medical and hospital expenses. I can't imagine what it does to your psyche having that hanging over your heads as a real possibility. It's one less thing we need to worry about in Canada.

As to your points:

#1 is not part of our basic system although there are many insurance companies that provide that coverage that we call "extended health" and it's a fairly common benefit in limited amounts per year for employees up here.

#2 is a medical decision.

#3 is a perfect example of an ad absurdum argument since anyone's life style can be examined and made to apply if your inclination is to exclude coverage.

OH you can do like in my country, who have auniversal health care, if you get sick you ahve to wait months to get a specialist consultation, then wait years to get a surgery if you need, with luck you die before you get to the surgery, if not you can die from post operatory.

also take note, the best paid medical personal are not in public, public are the ones who belive they need to help and the ones who are still new, all the good ones are in private.

pretty much where I live if you need public health care you are dead, now if you want to have a chance, pay for a health plan, with then you have to pay double, since you are already paying for "free" health care, and then pay a health plan to really have a chance

Amathe · February 2020

Cryomatrix said:

Amathe said:

Well, eating dirt isnt necessarily bad for you, has some essential minerals. Also, PICA is an illness, sometimee caused by anemia, where kids will eat weird stuff like dirt or paper or just munch on ice all the time.

Sometimes in middle school you get help eating dirt. Trust me on this.

moshra · February 2020

Iselin said:

Sovrath said:

I could have sworn in one of your myriad threads that you actually complained about Pantheon's graphics and animations.

He's a stream of consciousness kind of poster. Wait long enough and he'll post a third and then 4th contradictory opinions. It's kind of like watching him argue with himself sometimes.

Exactly, he's the Skip Bayless of mmorpg.com.

delete5230 · February 2020

Amathe said:

Cryomatrix said:

Amathe said:

Well, eating dirt isnt necessarily bad for you, has some essential minerals. Also, PICA is an illness, sometimee caused by anemia, where kids will eat weird stuff like dirt or paper or just munch on ice all the time.

Sometimes in middle school you get help eating dirt. Trust me on this.

Best come back of the week.
There should be a spot on this site for weekly best

Sovrath · February 2020

Sharne said:

Genuinely curious, what happens is the US, if a homeless guy is knocked over, taken to hospital, needs an operation to save his life, has no known relatives and has no health insurance?

There are programs specifically for homeless people with no income, there are also hospitals that have services for homeless and the state might give them money. Sometimes hospitals just use it as a loss.

I'll add, years ago I found a homeless person right on the edge of the Boston Commons close to Tremont Street. He had become sick and was lying there, seemingly not breathing.

I called 911 and they told me to see if I could turn him over AND they would send an ambulance.

So they didn't tell me "touch luck, cover him with a tarp and the pigeons and rats will take care of the rest."

Was a weird night as he was still alive, woke up (rip roaring drunk) when I tried to turn him over by touch as little of his coat as possible, he was trying to fight me as he lay there, other homeless people had gathered around like ravens and just sat there as all this was going on. Totally surreal.

Eventually an ambulance, a police car and a fire engine arrived, the homeless people fled into the night, and a woman got out and yelled at me that he wasn't unconscious. Which he was when I initially called.

Eventually they got all the details, said they knew him at the shelter and bundled him up and took him away.

One of my weirder Boston moments.

Amaranthar · February 2020

Utinni said:

Myrdynn said:

Healthcare for all works in other countries because

a) they dont have to have a budget to protect the entire free world, they just call daddy to help them if needed

b) they dont develop any medical breakthroughs, live saving medicines, or quite frankly everything

c) they have inferior service (death panels, longer wait times, lower survival rates for serious diseases)

d) America has an obesity problem like nowhere else in the world which raises our costs as well

e) everyone in the US is provided health care, including everyone here illegally if you walk into a hospital

f) nothing is free

g) the govt messes up everything, the last thing I want them to do is determine my healthcare

h) if healthcare for all was provided, companies would get a break and not have to pay premiums, then the left would claim it was only done to give rich corps a break (like the whole tax thing nonsense)

It's like you googled "fox news obama healthcare 2012" and pasted it into the reply box. Billionaires have conditioned you nicely.

He and Fox News are absolutely right about all those points.
I've read most of Obamacare. Did you know that the government has a law that defines a person's personal worth in terms of production?
Obamacare used that to stipulate who gets cut out when the funds got low. In effect, letting old people die. But worse, in case of funds running out faster, they would then move on to other people. The sickly, the unemployed, etc.

That's big government for you. Welfare as far as the money lasts and out of luck after that.
In the meantime, the costs being forced onto the people and the businesses slow the economy down and costs jobs and income. That's earned money that's not available for business or living. Creating more people in need of help in all ways, not just healthcare, and more expense with less tax revenues to pay for it. Look at Social Security for an example.

It's a death spiral, like all welfare states.
One where big government will then step in and start telling people and businesses how it's going to be, "for the sake of the people."

boris20 · February 2020

Sharne said:

Genuinely curious, what happens is the US, if a homeless guy is knocked over, taken to hospital, needs an operation to save his life, has no known relatives and has no health insurance?

They are treated and taken care of. Usually to hospital eats the bill. I spent 7 years EMS Abulance/Fire Dept, anyone in need of treatment goes and gets cared for if its an emergency. The hospital can try to bill, but it doesnt mean they will get any money. Cant bill someone if they don't have an address to bill.

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