I ran a test, the results are not good

Cryomatrix · February 2020

AlBQuirky said:

Cryomatrix said:

delete5230 said:

100% fact
The only way to solve healthcare is to FORCE the cost of all by half. Insurance MUST follow.

Yet this solution is NEVER discussed or even on the table...why ?

If the cost were reduced by half, then a solution to afford it can be resolved.

If healthcare institutions close down, then so be it..... They weren't efficient anyway. It's a free market, others will pop up.

If some one on finds and implements the "golden solution" on how to afford the high price, the cost will only rise again.

Are you serious? Why do you even bother coming up with ideas when you have no idea of why health care costs what it does.

The reason it is not discussed is because it is a dumbass idea and people who actually know about healthcare know better than that.

Man, you were tailor made for your preferred political candidate.

Could you enlighten us "non-medical professionals" as to why, exactly, healthcare in America is so damned expensive?

PS: I just reread that and I sounded a bit snarky. I didn't intend to sound that way. I seriously want to know from someone on the inside

I'm not an expert in it, so i wouldn't even bother, but i'd add what i think increases cost without any hard and fact numbers, but what sets america apart compared to other countries is what i put above in prior post. It's just that i'm too shy to think i can fix healthcare, Delete is definitely not even qualified to say what he says about it.

adam_nox · February 2020

""Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT,""

The only person who would say this is someone who has no notion whatsoever of how things work outside the US.

ultimateduck · February 2020

adam_nox said:

""Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT,""

The only person who would say this is someone who has no notion whatsoever of how things work outside the US.

I will happily say it and I know exactly how things work as I've lived it and experienced it, outside of the U.S.

Expecting a diverse country of over 325 million people living in 3.8 million square miles to work the same as a homogeneous country with 10 million people living in 173k square miles is ignorant.

Utinni · February 2020

ultimateduck said:

adam_nox said:

""Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT,""

The only person who would say this is someone who has no notion whatsoever of how things work outside the US.

I will happily say it and I know exactly how things work as I've lived it and experienced it, outside of the U.S.

Expecting a diverse country of over 325 million people living in 3.8 million square miles to work the same as a homogeneous country with 10 million people living in 173k square miles is ignorant.

Fox News is drilling the excuses in deep these days

Gdemami · February 2020

Ungood said:
I am impressed, you read the first page.

....the snippet is actually not at the first page, so you still haven't read it.

There is also part about tort law and correlation - causality issue that futher explains unlikeness the use of religion or ethnicity in insurance underwriting. Sure, those thing are elementary but for you, that's an excellent read.

Otherwise, good job on refuting your own claims.

Ungood · February 2020

Gdemami said:

Ungood said:
I am impressed, you read the first page.

....the snippet is actually not at the first page, so you still haven't read it.

There is also part about tort law and correlation - causality issue that futher explains unlikeness the use of religion or ethnicity in insurance underwriting. Sure, those thing are elementary but for you, that's an excellent read.

Otherwise, good job on refuting your own claims.

Yah, that was the first page, you know, the page with all the words and info, not to be confused with the title page.

Anyway, yes,I gave you a document from 2015, outlining why the State of Texas no longer allows discrimination on those grounds.

Since you lacked sincerity in your first post with me, I figured it would do you well to waste time in an echo-chamber.

Hope you had fun.

ultimateduck · February 2020

Utinni said:

ultimateduck said:

adam_nox said:

""Here in America people want "health care for all"…… They refuse to face WHO WILL PAY FOR IT,""

The only person who would say this is someone who has no notion whatsoever of how things work outside the US.

I will happily say it and I know exactly how things work as I've lived it and experienced it, outside of the U.S.

Expecting a diverse country of over 325 million people living in 3.8 million square miles to work the same as a homogeneous country with 10 million people living in 173k square miles is ignorant.

Fox News is drilling the excuses in deep these days

I lived in Canada (permanent immigrant status) and have trained and competed all over the world including places that have "socialized" medicine. I've seen the difference in the way treatment is administered. It's great if your problems are routine. Not so great if you need to be diagnosed for an unknown condition or your treatment would be better if the doctors weren't governed by the bureaucracy.

Yes, it's great that you never have to worry about paying for a doctor bill, but that's all that's great... and you do pay for it in horrible tax rates. There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Iselin · February 2020

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

Amathe · February 2020

The healthcare I need is an aspirin for the headache this thread produces.

Jacktimekeapper · February 2020

Hmm

Jacktimekeapper · February 2020

Try another test, maybe?

laserit · February 2020

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Iselin · February 2020

laserit said:

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Yeah. All the trips down to the US for medial procedures that I have knowledge of are for the elective stuff which as you say, can have long waiting periods.

I luckily caught my heart problem before it became an attack. Called my doctor late afternoon and told him my symptoms and he just sent me straight to RCH. I had my angio and the stent put in the next morning and I was back home feeling much better the following day. Like I said, no complaints.

laserit · February 2020

Iselin said:

laserit said:

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Yeah. All the trips down to the US for medial procedures that I have knowledge of are for the elective stuff which as you say, can have long waiting periods.

I luckily caught my heart problem before it became an attack. Called my doctor late afternoon and told him my symptoms and he just sent me straight to RCH. I had my angio and the stent put in the next morning and I was back home feeling much better the following day. Like I said, no complaints.

Same thing happened to a female friend of ours year before last, except that she had to undergo open heart surgery. That surgery really affected her psychologically. I think she's finally getting over it.

ultimateduck · February 2020

Iselin said:

laserit said:

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Yeah. All the trips down to the US for medial procedures that I have knowledge of are for the elective stuff which as you say, can have long waiting periods.

I luckily caught my heart problem before it became an attack. Called my doctor late afternoon and told him my symptoms and he just sent me straight to RCH. I had my angio and the stent put in the next morning and I was back home feeling much better the following day. Like I said, no complaints.

If by "elective" you mean better or more effective treatment than what you can get in a socialized system, yes. Like I said, single payer systems are great if your problems are routine, even routine emergency surgery. The problems comes when things aren't routine or when there's a better treatment option available that's new or more expensive and not cleared by the bureaucracy that governs what care options are available. A person doesn't go overseas for a transplant unless they have no option, like a lack of donors or maybe didn't qualify for any number of reasons. I guarantee they would rather have the transplant in the U.S.

I don't mind helping kids with cancer or a person who has a genetic heart defect. Hell, we have tons of charities to help people like this. Sadly, in America, these are infrequent in comparison to a person with a heart problem because they ate McDonalds 3 times a day for 20 years, or a diabetic that's 300lbs, or a smoker with lung cancer or an alcoholic with a failing liver. I do not want to pay for their poor life choices. With a 36% obesity rate and 325 million people, this becomes an unsustainable problem. Our culture has to change before it becomes feasible and our culture is more diverse than any other place on the planet so change comes slow. Once it does, well then we have a bloated government to take care of.

Mendel · February 2020

Iselin said:

laserit said:

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Yeah. All the trips down to the US for medial procedures that I have knowledge of are for the elective stuff which as you say, can have long waiting periods.

I luckily caught my heart problem before it became an attack. Called my doctor late afternoon and told him my symptoms and he just sent me straight to RCH. I had my angio and the stent put in the next morning and I was back home feeling much better the following day. Like I said, no complaints.

I'm glad you had no issues.

I had six congestive heart failures over a nine year period. The doctors ran tests, and couldn't come up with a clear, concise diagnosis. They ran stress tests, both physical and chemical, with different results. They suggested surgery to put stents in my heart, without knowing any specific cause of my problems, essentially doing 'exploratory surgery'. I didn't agree with that approach; it's not the 1960s anymore.

I eventually 'fired' those doctors and went to another hospital. The new doctor gave me a diagnostic first time out -- ascending aortic aneurysm. My problem was about 1/2" above the heart. They did the surgery on me, fixed the problem (replaced a section of the aorta, and replaced a valve that had been damaged). My heart has been good since. These doctors said that a surgery to put a stent in the arteries of the heart would probably not have discovered my issue, and that I didn't need stents in any of the arteries. The first set of doctors, had they been allowed to proceed, would probably have missed my aorta issue, resulting with my death. Not a preferable outcome (for me, anyway).

So, doctors *can* be wrong. Make sure you understand and agree with their diagnosis, and have at least some rudimentary knowledge of what your problem might be. If the doctor can't give a specific answer, it's probably time to find a new doctor.

Sovrath · February 2020

ultimateduck said:

I don't mind helping kids with cancer or a person who has a genetic heart defect. Hell, we have tons of charities to help people like this. Sadly, in America, these are infrequent in comparison to a person with a heart problem because they ate McDonalds 3 times a day for 20 years, or a diabetic that's 300lbs, or a smoker with lung cancer or an alcoholic with a failing liver. I do not want to pay for their poor life choices.

the thing is that's not how taxes and government spending works.

There is no I want to pay for x but don't want to pay for y.

Because believe me, I probably don't want to pay for things that you think are important/Vital and vice/versa.

Theoretically we vote people into office who then look at what they think will make things better and they spend money accordingly.

Theoretically.

laserit · February 2020

ultimateduck said:

Iselin said:

laserit said:

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Yeah. All the trips down to the US for medial procedures that I have knowledge of are for the elective stuff which as you say, can have long waiting periods.

I luckily caught my heart problem before it became an attack. Called my doctor late afternoon and told him my symptoms and he just sent me straight to RCH. I had my angio and the stent put in the next morning and I was back home feeling much better the following day. Like I said, no complaints.

If by "elective" you mean better or more effective treatment than what you can get in a socialized system, yes. Like I said, single payer systems are great if your problems are routine, even routine emergency surgery. The problems comes when things aren't routine or when there's a better treatment option available that's new or more expensive and not cleared by the bureaucracy that governs what care options are available. A person doesn't go overseas for a transplant unless they have no option, like a lack of donors or maybe didn't qualify for any number of reasons. I guarantee they would rather have the transplant in the U.S.

I don't mind helping kids with cancer or a person who has a genetic heart defect. Hell, we have tons of charities to help people like this. Sadly, in America, these are infrequent in comparison to a person with a heart problem because they ate McDonalds 3 times a day for 20 years, or a diabetic that's 300lbs, or a smoker with lung cancer or an alcoholic with a failing liver. I do not want to pay for their poor life choices. With a 36% obesity rate and 325 million people, this becomes an unsustainable problem. Our culture has to change before it becomes feasible and our culture is more diverse than any other place on the planet so change comes slow. Once it does, well then we have a bloated government to take care of.

A football player who broke their leg playing soccer, a jogger who's worn out their knee, a kid who thought he could make the jump etc. etc.

One thing that makes for a great society, is when people actually care about the health and welfare of each other. Imho the "I only care about me and mine" isn't going to take us down a good path.

I pay a hell of a lot of taxes and you know what, I still have a hell of a good life and I want for nothing.

Asm0deus · February 2020

laserit said:

ultimateduck said:

Iselin said:

laserit said:

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Yeah. All the trips down to the US for medial procedures that I have knowledge of are for the elective stuff which as you say, can have long waiting periods.

I luckily caught my heart problem before it became an attack. Called my doctor late afternoon and told him my symptoms and he just sent me straight to RCH. I had my angio and the stent put in the next morning and I was back home feeling much better the following day. Like I said, no complaints.

If by "elective" you mean better or more effective treatment than what you can get in a socialized system, yes. Like I said, single payer systems are great if your problems are routine, even routine emergency surgery. The problems comes when things aren't routine or when there's a better treatment option available that's new or more expensive and not cleared by the bureaucracy that governs what care options are available. A person doesn't go overseas for a transplant unless they have no option, like a lack of donors or maybe didn't qualify for any number of reasons. I guarantee they would rather have the transplant in the U.S.

I don't mind helping kids with cancer or a person who has a genetic heart defect. Hell, we have tons of charities to help people like this. Sadly, in America, these are infrequent in comparison to a person with a heart problem because they ate McDonalds 3 times a day for 20 years, or a diabetic that's 300lbs, or a smoker with lung cancer or an alcoholic with a failing liver. I do not want to pay for their poor life choices. With a 36% obesity rate and 325 million people, this becomes an unsustainable problem. Our culture has to change before it becomes feasible and our culture is more diverse than any other place on the planet so change comes slow. Once it does, well then we have a bloated government to take care of.

A football player who broke their leg playing soccer, a jogger who's worn out their knee, a kid who thought he could make the jump etc. etc.

One thing that makes for a great society, is when people actually care about the health and welfare of each other. Imho the "I only care about me and mine" isn't going to take us down a good path.

I pay a hell of a lot of taxes and you know what, I still have a hell of a good life and I want for nothing.

As dual citizen I much prefer the Canadian health care system we have up north above the system south of the border. It's not perfect and yes we pay higher taxes but damn if you have a heart attack or any kind of serious problem it doesn't matter if you got 2 mill or 5 dollars in your bank account, you will get that top notch treatment and there will be no skipping ahead of the line.

I have also worked for 10 years in the system up here in a home for the elderly and I will say while I think no one wants to ever end up in a home I will by far fight tooth and nail to go to one in Canada over one in the USA.

America can be a great place to live and work but it's health care system is NOT something to be extolled about.

Asm0deus · February 2020

DMKano said:

...snip...

Unless you have a ton of $$$ - then US health care is pretty good, especially if you go to the top specialists in the field

Indeed and I even said so in my earlier post. Like many things in America if you got boatloads of cash things are great not so much if you are middle class or lower.

It's like when Trump says, "lets make America great again!" he isn't talking about the average citizen but rather for himself and his cronies.

Iselin · February 2020

Mendel said:

Iselin said:

laserit said:

Iselin said:

ultimateduck said:

There's a reason so many people (mostly wealthy) come to America and pay out of pocket for complicated or innovative treatment.

Yes. The same reason wealthy Americans become transplant tourists in other countries. There's nothing new about the wealthy jumping queues lol.

I've both worked in the Health Care system in BC and been a patient needing urgent care (a stent for a blocked artery) and I have no complaints.

5 1/2 years ago, a friend of mine suffered a major heart attack. We were 30km up a logging road bucking up firewood between Boston Bar and Lytton BC. Lucky we were in cell phone range, we had to race down 30km of logging road down to the highway. There they medevac'd him out and 4 hours after the onslaught of the heart attack he was recovering after surgery in Vancouver General.

I have a few other examples, especially my step son who has suffered since the age of 10 from autoimmune hepatitis. He seriously almost bled to death at least a 1/2 dozen times. He has had so many blood transfusions that I lost count.

When it comes to elective surgeries our waiting lists can be too long. When it comes to life or death our system is second to none.

Yeah. All the trips down to the US for medial procedures that I have knowledge of are for the elective stuff which as you say, can have long waiting periods.

I luckily caught my heart problem before it became an attack. Called my doctor late afternoon and told him my symptoms and he just sent me straight to RCH. I had my angio and the stent put in the next morning and I was back home feeling much better the following day. Like I said, no complaints.

I'm glad you had no issues.

I had six congestive heart failures over a nine year period. The doctors ran tests, and couldn't come up with a clear, concise diagnosis. They ran stress tests, both physical and chemical, with different results. They suggested surgery to put stents in my heart, without knowing any specific cause of my problems, essentially doing 'exploratory surgery'. I didn't agree with that approach; it's not the 1960s anymore.

I eventually 'fired' those doctors and went to another hospital. The new doctor gave me a diagnostic first time out -- ascending aortic aneurysm. My problem was about 1/2" above the heart. They did the surgery on me, fixed the problem (replaced a section of the aorta, and replaced a valve that had been damaged). My heart has been good since. These doctors said that a surgery to put a stent in the arteries of the heart would probably not have discovered my issue, and that I didn't need stents in any of the arteries. The first set of doctors, had they been allowed to proceed, would probably have missed my aorta issue, resulting with my death. Not a preferable outcome (for me, anyway).

So, doctors *can* be wrong. Make sure you understand and agree with their diagnosis, and have at least some rudimentary knowledge of what your problem might be. If the doctor can't give a specific answer, it's probably time to find a new doctor.

Yeah I worked in health care long enough to know that there are doctors that graduate at the bottom of the class

I have no problem shopping around.

My case was simple using angiography which is just a live xray procedure using a contrast dye so they can see the arteries, that precedes angioplasty, which is the placement of the stent.

The whole thing was done just by inserting a thin tube through an artery in the leg and threading it to the right spot to place the stent. It took less than an hour, was painless and the relief (which in my case was referred angina pain in my neck and jaw after any kind of physical activity) was instant. They got the right coronary artery for sure.

ultimateduck · February 2020

Sovrath said:

the thing is that's not how taxes and government spending works.

There is no I want to pay for x but don't want to pay for y.

Because believe me, I probably don't want to pay for things that you think are important/Vital and vice/versa.

Theoretically we vote people into office who then look at what they think will make things better and they spend money accordingly.

Theoretically.

I know how taxes work. Therein lies the difference. I am not suggesting you pay for any of the things I find important. You are suggesting I do. If you want to eat crap food, smoke and drink, have at it. Don't expect me to pay for your medical bills. If I want to help people in need of medical assistance they can't afford, I will give to a charity where I know it isn't going to some blob.

Asm0deus said:

As dual citizen I much prefer the Canadian health care system we have up north above the system south of the border. It's not perfect and yes we pay higher taxes but damn if you have a heart attack or any kind of serious problem it doesn't matter if you got 2 mill or 5 dollars in your bank account, you will get that top notch treatment and there will be no skipping ahead of the line.

I have also worked for 10 years in the system up here in a home for the elderly and I will say while I think no one wants to ever end up in a home I will by far fight tooth and nail to go to one in Canada over one in the USA.

America can be a great place to live and work but it's health care system is NOT something to be extolled about.

It's like when Trump says, "lets make America great again!" he isn't talking about the average citizen but rather for himself and his cronies.

See, we differ there. We have a place in Canada. My mom will drive to Mexico for some of her medical procedures that she can afford to pay cash for before using the Canadian system. Either that or just go to her doctor in CA. She is not rich. She's living on social security and Medicaid. My wife and I are doing ok monetarily but have meh insurance. I wouldn't dream of heading to Canada for my medical needs.

And when Trump says "lets make America great again!" he's using a campaign slogan much like Hillary and her "Better Together"... when the last thing she wanted was to be associated with the common American. We have two losing options in our political system. Unfortunately, the modern democrat platform is so insane that Trump is actually a better option that just about anyone the democrats throw at us... and no, I didn't vote for Trump.

Mendel · February 2020

ultimateduck said:

Sovrath said:

the thing is that's not how taxes and government spending works.

There is no I want to pay for x but don't want to pay for y.

Because believe me, I probably don't want to pay for things that you think are important/Vital and vice/versa.

Theoretically we vote people into office who then look at what they think will make things better and they spend money accordingly.

Theoretically.

I know how taxes work. Therein lies the difference. I am not suggesting you pay for any of the things I find important. You are suggesting I do. If you want to eat crap food, smoke and drink, have at it. Don't expect me to pay for your medical bills. If I want to help people in need of medical assistance they can't afford, I will give to a charity where I know it isn't going to some blob.

Asm0deus said:

As dual citizen I much prefer the Canadian health care system we have up north above the system south of the border. It's not perfect and yes we pay higher taxes but damn if you have a heart attack or any kind of serious problem it doesn't matter if you got 2 mill or 5 dollars in your bank account, you will get that top notch treatment and there will be no skipping ahead of the line.

I have also worked for 10 years in the system up here in a home for the elderly and I will say while I think no one wants to ever end up in a home I will by far fight tooth and nail to go to one in Canada over one in the USA.

America can be a great place to live and work but it's health care system is NOT something to be extolled about.

It's like when Trump says, "lets make America great again!" he isn't talking about the average citizen but rather for himself and his cronies.

See, we differ there. We have a place in Canada. My mom will drive to Mexico for some of her medical procedures that she can afford to pay cash for before using the Canadian system. Either that or just go to her doctor in CA. She is not rich. She's living on social security and Medicaid. My wife and I are doing ok monetarily but have meh insurance. I wouldn't dream of heading to Canada for my medical needs.

And when Trump says "lets make America great again!" he's using a campaign slogan much like Hillary and her "Better Together"... when the last thing she wanted was to be associated with the common American. We have two losing options in our political system. Unfortunately, the modern democrat platform is so insane that Trump is actually a better option that just about anyone the democrats throw at us... and no, I didn't vote for Trump.

When do we get a viable third party? The two party system has created a system where "they're wrong, we're right" rules and the sides are more interested in attacking the other than actually working to help the country. The bickering hasn't been good, and not even always entertaining.

Cryomatrix · February 2020

There are issues and pros and cons with any healthcare system.

Pros of US healthcare.
We basically had an infant on my service who pretty much had an insidious heart problem that ended up with the kid needing to be placed on ECMO. More than life support basically. Look up the acronym.

Either way, kid died basically and if we didnt have an amazing nearby hospital that flew in by helicopter to pick up the kid, he would have died.

Not sure how many countries have ECMO available and only top cities have ECMO.

Sovrath · February 2020

ultimateduck said:

Sovrath said:

the thing is that's not how taxes and government spending works.

There is no I want to pay for x but don't want to pay for y.

Because believe me, I probably don't want to pay for things that you think are important/Vital and vice/versa.

Theoretically we vote people into office who then look at what they think will make things better and they spend money accordingly.

Theoretically.

I know how taxes work. Therein lies the difference. I am not suggesting you pay for any of the things I find important. You are suggesting I do. If you want to eat crap food, smoke and drink, have at it. Don't expect me to pay for your medical bills. If I want to help people in need of medical assistance they can't afford, I will give to a charity where I know it isn't going to some blob.

My point still stands. You don't get to decide that. And sure, for the sake of discussion I do think people should be somewhat accountable for their lives. But in the end, some people aren't. Sometimes it makes sense and one can see why they ended up where they are and sometimes it seems like laziness.

But "we" all don't get a say. And even if we did and we withheld money from people who were "blobs" as you say, eventually something would happen and some organization would still have to take care of it.

I personally know of a someone who takes advantage of the system. Makes me angry. I've also know people who were helped by the system and actually became productive citizens. You just have to take the bad with the good.

Life is messy, it is what it is.

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