Your logic like your math is so flawed. LOL get real.
Wow, it seems we have something in common then.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
World of Warcraft cost $100 million to develop over 5 years with 40-80 developers working full time from 1996-2001.
Expecting a that a team of 5-20 amateur "developers" are going to create any game worthwhile within the same timeframe for just a couple million dollars is laughable.
To truly compete nowadays, it would require a team of 100-200 professional developers and a minimum of $200 million dollars to create anything worthwhile in 5 years or less. Even Amazon is struggling to do it.
Knowing that, it's so painfully obvious that crowdfunded MMO's are scams in disguise.
Kickstarter is not the one to blame here, it's whoever is giving these crowdfunded games money. These scams will continue to exist so long as gullible and naïve people continue to give them easy money.
Scam means someone committed a fraud and knowingly misled other people. I think most of the failures we've seen in the crowdfunded MMORPG field were due to a lack of funding, scope creep or inexperience/mismanagement (or a mix of those 3). I'm not aware of one real fraudulent scheme in the recent years among the biggest KS projects (I know CoE comes to mind but to me it resembles more to a lack of funding and inexperience than a real fraudulent scheme. However imo it doesn't excuse wasting millions of dollars backers have spent on the project).
Going down: The Repopulation: currently in Early Access/playable state - Win.
Zenith: Slated to be Released this Year - We shall see, but still - Fail.
Adventure Quest 3D - Launched/playable. - Win.
TemTem - Released/Launched - Win.
Dual Universe - Currently in a Beta/Playable state - Win
City of Titans - Currently Not Playable - Fail.
Chronicles of Elyria - Direct Scam - Fail
Crowfall - Currently in a Alpha/Playable state - Win.
Shroud of the Avatar - Launched/Released - Win.
Elite: Dangerous - Launched/Released - Win.
Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.
Camelot Unchained - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.
Hex - vaporware? - Fail.
Ashes of Creation - Still in Development, Supposedly Playable State - Progress being Made but still - Fail
So.. break down: 14 total projects.
We have 7 games in a playable state, that count as Wins.
We have 7 games that are not in a playable state that count as Fails.
Of the 7 games that failed, We have 1 game that was a direct Scam and 1 game that just vanished into Vaporware.
So.. when you look at it, this is not that bad.
Only one was a direct Scam.
Which bring us back to Kickstarter's role in all this, how would Kickstarter know, out of these 14 projects, which one was the direct scam during the funding phrase?
(Revised as data was provided by Rhoklaw about Dual Universe)
Just want to point out Hex was not vaporware. I did play that game for a little bit. Not a bad game, actually. But Hearthstone was sadly the better one.
The question posed in the OP was "How many of these have actually launched and survived". Sadly HEX, which I never played but did hear good things about, did not survive.
From the top 10 Kickstarters in the list only Elite and SotA meet that criteria (although I list SotA very grudgingly… it's not quite dead!). Seems like the guy you quoted wants to stretch from the OP to include Alpha states and pretty much any game that hasn't closed shop as a "win". Well, whatever floats your boat I guess. Sounds like of like Mr. Tiger's Blood Charlie Sheen's kind of winning.
The answer to "Exactly how horrible has the Crowdfunded MMO experiment been"? is simple: It's been fucking horrible!
I was not replying to the OP, I was replying to Ungood, who stated Hex was vaporware, which it was not and wanted to specify that. Quoting somebody means you're answering them specifically. That's literally the function of quoting, so I'm really not sure why you felt the need to lecture me in reference to the OP and how Kickstarter projects, as far as MMORPGs go, have been terrible endeavors. I already knew that before I even opened the thread.
World of Warcraft cost $100 million to develop over 5 years with 40-80 developers working full time from 1996-2001.
Expecting a that a team of 5-20 amateur "developers" are going to create any game worthwhile within the same timeframe for just a couple million dollars is laughable.
To truly compete nowadays, it would require a team of 100-200 professional developers and a minimum of $200 million dollars to create anything worthwhile in 5 years or less. Even Amazon is struggling to do it.
Knowing that, it's so painfully obvious that crowdfunded MMO's are scams in disguise.
Kickstarter is not the one to blame here, it's whoever is giving these crowdfunded games money. These scams will continue to exist so long as gullible and naïve people continue to give them easy money.
Scam means someone committed a fraud and knowingly misled other people. I think most of the failures we've seen in the crowdfunded MMORPG field were due to a lack of funding, scope creep or inexperience/mismanagement (or a mix of those 3). I'm not aware of one real fraudulent scheme in the recent years among the biggest KS projects (I know CoE comes to mind but to me it resembles more to a lack of funding and inexperience than a real fraudulent scheme. However imo it doesn't excuse wasting millions of dollars backers have spent on the project).
I have to agree with this, CoE/Jormey Walsh, was, so far, the only direct scam.
And while there are still some on the table that are way over release date, they seem to be making actual progress, and working on the project in good faith.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Going down: The Repopulation: currently in Early Access/playable state - Win.
Zenith: Slated to be Released this Year - We shall see, but still - Fail.
Adventure Quest 3D - Launched/playable. - Win.
TemTem - Released/Launched - Win.
Dual Universe - Currently in a Beta/Playable state - Win
City of Titans - Currently Not Playable - Fail.
Chronicles of Elyria - Direct Scam - Fail
Crowfall - Currently in a Alpha/Playable state - Win.
Shroud of the Avatar - Launched/Released - Win.
Elite: Dangerous - Launched/Released - Win.
Star Citizen - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.
Camelot Unchained - Still in Development/Not Playable - Progress being made but still - Fail.
Hex - vaporware? - Fail.
Ashes of Creation - Still in Development, Supposedly Playable State - Progress being Made but still - Fail
So.. break down: 14 total projects.
We have 7 games in a playable state, that count as Wins.
We have 7 games that are not in a playable state that count as Fails.
Of the 7 games that failed, We have 1 game that was a direct Scam and 1 game that just vanished into Vaporware.
So.. when you look at it, this is not that bad.
Only one was a direct Scam.
Which bring us back to Kickstarter's role in all this, how would Kickstarter know, out of these 14 projects, which one was the direct scam during the funding phrase?
(Revised as data was provided by Rhoklaw about Dual Universe)
Just want to point out Hex was not vaporware. I did play that game for a little bit. Not a bad game, actually. But Hearthstone was sadly the better one.
The question posed in the OP was "How many of these have actually launched and survived". Sadly HEX, which I never played but did hear good things about, did not survive.
From the top 10 Kickstarters in the list only Elite and SotA meet that criteria (although I list SotA very grudgingly… it's not quite dead!). Seems like the guy you quoted wants to stretch from the OP to include Alpha states and pretty much any game that hasn't closed shop as a "win". Well, whatever floats your boat I guess. Sounds like of like Mr. Tiger's Blood Charlie Sheen's kind of winning.
The answer to "Exactly how horrible has the Crowdfunded MMO experiment been"? is simple: It's been fucking horrible!
I was not replying to the OP, I was replying to Ungood,
Ahh I see what the core issue was My apologies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Lets see.. MMO's have at best a 10% retainment rate, and no doubt surprisingly less if charted over 10 years, this is called a Turnover rate, which most of us already know about.
Yeah I think you just pulling that number out of thin air. You saying 10% people pay a sub for 1 month then never pay again in their entire life? Yeah I don't believe that at all. I call full BS.
I personally think that is true. Many people download or buy game to "try". A huge portion won't even last a few minutes. But I won't call those people players, just people trying to test out a game.
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
I just love "studies" and "raw numbers." Don't you?
It's like a giant Plinko Game. You drop all these numbers into the top and watch them fall where they support or debunk whatever opinion is sought.
Two posters saw the same exact numbers and came to very different conclusions. I saw a lot of bias and opinion liberally applied to the same exact numbers.
Is Kickstarter good for MMO(RPG) funding? It seems NOT too good in my opinion. Zero proof, just 100% biased opinion
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Didn't WoW admit to keeping 30% of the number of people that try World of Warcraft as subscribers. I cannot find the quote so don't ask me but I recall reading that.
Lets see.. MMO's have at best a 10% retainment rate, and no doubt surprisingly less if charted over 10 years, this is called a Turnover rate, which most of us already know about.
Yeah I think you just pulling that number out of thin air. You saying 10% people pay a sub for 1 month then never pay again in their entire life? Yeah I don't believe that at all. I call full BS.
I personally think that is true. Many people download or buy game to "try". A huge portion won't even last a few minutes. But I won't call those people players, just people trying to test out a game.
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
Lets see.. MMO's have at best a 10% retainment rate, and no doubt surprisingly less if charted over 10 years, this is called a Turnover rate, which most of us already know about.
Yeah I think you just pulling that number out of thin air. You saying 10% people pay a sub for 1 month then never pay again in their entire life? Yeah I don't believe that at all. I call full BS.
I personally think that is true. Many people download or buy game to "try". A huge portion won't even last a few minutes. But I won't call those people players, just people trying to test out a game.
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
Well based on WoW having around 5mil average (low balling it) players playing over 15 years, then doing some rough math.
Based on 90% daily turnover it would require about 246bil total players to support it. Based on 90% monthly turnover it would require 8bil total players to support it. Based on 90% yearly turnover it would require 675 mil total players to support it.
Being that Blizzard is reporting 100mil unique total player accounts and has around 5 mil average unique players over 15yrs . having a 10% retention rate wouldn't make since now would it.
Lets see.. MMO's have at best a 10% retainment rate, and no doubt surprisingly less if charted over 10 years, this is called a Turnover rate, which most of us already know about.
Yeah I think you just pulling that number out of thin air. You saying 10% people pay a sub for 1 month then never pay again in their entire life? Yeah I don't believe that at all. I call full BS.
I personally think that is true. Many people download or buy game to "try". A huge portion won't even last a few minutes. But I won't call those people players, just people trying to test out a game.
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
Well based on WoW having around 5mil average (low balling it) players playing over 15 years, then doing some rough math.
Based on 90% daily turnover it would require about 246bil total players to support it. Based on 90% monthly turnover it would require 8bil total players to support it. Based on 90% yearly turnover it would require 675 mil total players to support it.
Being that Blizzard is reporting 100mil unique total player accounts and has around 5 mil average unique players over 15yrs . having a 10% retention rate wouldn't make since now would it.
You used math and numbers. I know one person's head is going to explode.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Lets see.. MMO's have at best a 10% retainment rate, and no doubt surprisingly less if charted over 10 years, this is called a Turnover rate, which most of us already know about.
Yeah I think you just pulling that number out of thin air. You saying 10% people pay a sub for 1 month then never pay again in their entire life? Yeah I don't believe that at all. I call full BS.
I personally think that is true. Many people download or buy game to "try". A huge portion won't even last a few minutes. But I won't call those people players, just people trying to test out a game.
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
Well based on WoW having around 5mil average (low balling it) players playing over 15 years, then doing some rough math.
Based on 90% daily turnover it would require about 246bil total players to support it. Based on 90% monthly turnover it would require 8bil total players to support it. Based on 90% yearly turnover it would require 675 mil total players to support it.
Being that Blizzard is reporting 100mil unique total player accounts and has around 5 mil average unique players over 15yrs . having a 10% retention rate wouldn't make since now would it.
Daily Turnover? What the hell, this is an MMO, not a Hotel Room where you rent it to bang someone other than your SO. I thought you knew how business worked.. apparently you do not. I guess you are as much a business owner as you are a world first raiders in wow and top player in every game you ever played.. LOL.
Anyway, digs aside, we all get it, really we all get it at this point. You got duped and are looking to blame everyone but yourself and the person that screwed you.
Why you don't don't want to put the blame where it belongs, I have no idea, but for some reason or another, you want to blame everyone but the people actually responsible.
In that vein, Kickstarter is only ever involved any project in a very directly limited manner, they do not do anything outside this very narrow scope.
But because they are there, and known, and whatever, people target them and think they should do more, or whatever. Kickstarter makes it clear they will not do more, they have their exact role they play, which they make very clear to anyone using their product, nothing more, nothing less.
If you want to cling to some dream they will get theirs, you can, but much like the people that hope for the zombie apocalypse , it is never going to happen.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Is Kickstarter good for MMO(RPG) funding? It seems NOT too good in my opinion. Zero proof, just 100% biased opinion
I tend to agree with this, because I think MMO players in a more general sense are the wrong kind of people that can be trusted to handle their money wisely, and make sound investments.
Which is why as we have seen, from legal cases being brought up and the like, they cannot be trusted around things like Lootboxes and Gacha, or any kind of Chace Game, as it were.
It's just not something that MMO players in the general sense can seem to be able to handle well.
I wonder if this has anything to do with how many of them admit to not wanting to bother with reading the text, and just click next, to get on with the playing.
Would be fun if someone ran a study on that, if there was any relation between the two personality traits.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Lets see.. MMO's have at best a 10% retainment rate, and no doubt surprisingly less if charted over 10 years, this is called a Turnover rate, which most of us already know about.
Yeah I think you just pulling that number out of thin air. You saying 10% people pay a sub for 1 month then never pay again in their entire life? Yeah I don't believe that at all. I call full BS.
I personally think that is true. Many people download or buy game to "try". A huge portion won't even last a few minutes. But I won't call those people players, just people trying to test out a game.
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
Well based on WoW having around 5mil average (low balling it) players playing over 15 years, then doing some rough math.
Based on 90% daily turnover it would require about 246bil total players to support it. Based on 90% monthly turnover it would require 8bil total players to support it. Based on 90% yearly turnover it would require 675 mil total players to support it.
Being that Blizzard is reporting 100mil unique total player accounts and has around 5 mil average unique players over 15yrs . having a 10% retention rate wouldn't make since now would it.
Daily Turnover? What the hell, this is an MMO, not a Hotel Room where you rent it to bang someone other than your SO. I thought you knew how business worked.. apparently you do not. I guess you are as much a business owner as you are a world first raiders in wow and top player in every game you ever played.. LOL.
Anyway, digs aside, we all get it, really we all get it at this point. You got duped and are looking to blame everyone but yourself and the person that screwed you.
Why you don't don't want to put the blame where it belongs, I have no idea, but for some reason or another, you want to blame everyone but the people actually responsible.
In that vein, Kickstarter is only ever involved any project in a very directly limited manner, they do not do anything outside this very narrow scope.
But because they are there, and known, and whatever, people target them and think they should do more, or whatever. Kickstarter makes it clear they will not do more, they have their exact role they play, which they make very clear to anyone using their product, nothing more, nothing less.
If you want to cling to some dream they will get theirs, you can, but much like the people that hope for the zombie apocalypse , it is never going to happen.
LOL your head did explode didn't it. Logic and reasoning is not your strong suit I see. Stick with calculators and and numbers lower than 10? You keep spewing that garbage to your fellow feelers out there.
I do see now where you got that 10% from.
If you take the derivative of the speed of the BS coming from your mouth during this entire thread. Subtracted by the integral of the acceleration of the sound of your head exploding every time someone uses logic. Add that to Pi squared divided by 100 Million unique WoW accounts. That is almost the 10% you are reaching for. Maybe that's where you got it.
Lets see.. MMO's have at best a 10% retainment rate, and no doubt surprisingly less if charted over 10 years, this is called a Turnover rate, which most of us already know about.
Yeah I think you just pulling that number out of thin air. You saying 10% people pay a sub for 1 month then never pay again in their entire life? Yeah I don't believe that at all. I call full BS.
I personally think that is true. Many people download or buy game to "try". A huge portion won't even last a few minutes. But I won't call those people players, just people trying to test out a game.
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
Well based on WoW having around 5mil average (low balling it) players playing over 15 years, then doing some rough math.
Based on 90% daily turnover it would require about 246bil total players to support it. Based on 90% monthly turnover it would require 8bil total players to support it. Based on 90% yearly turnover it would require 675 mil total players to support it.
Being that Blizzard is reporting 100mil unique total player accounts and has around 5 mil average unique players over 15yrs . having a 10% retention rate wouldn't make since now would it.
Daily Turnover? What the hell, this is an MMO, not a Hotel Room where you rent it to bang someone other than your SO. I thought you knew how business worked.. apparently you do not. I guess you are as much a business owner as you are a world first raiders in wow and top player in every game you ever played.. LOL.
Anyway, digs aside, we all get it, really we all get it at this point. You got duped and are looking to blame everyone but yourself and the person that screwed you.
Why you don't don't want to put the blame where it belongs, I have no idea, but for some reason or another, you want to blame everyone but the people actually responsible.
In that vein, Kickstarter is only ever involved any project in a very directly limited manner, they do not do anything outside this very narrow scope.
But because they are there, and known, and whatever, people target them and think they should do more, or whatever. Kickstarter makes it clear they will not do more, they have their exact role they play, which they make very clear to anyone using their product, nothing more, nothing less.
If you want to cling to some dream they will get theirs, you can, but much like the people that hope for the zombie apocalypse , it is never going to happen.
LOL your head did explode didn't it. Logic and reasoning is not your strong suit I see. Stick with calculators and and numbers lower than 10? You keep spewing that garbage to your fellow feelers out there.
I do see now where you got that 10% from.
If you take the derivative of the speed of the BS coming from your mouth during this entire thread. Subtracted by the integral of the acceleration of the sound of your head exploding every time someone uses logic. Add that to Pi squared divided by 100 Million unique WoW accounts. That is almost the 10% you are reaching for. Maybe that's where you got it.
No. LOL, A daily turnover would mean that it was a new 5 million people each day, or did you not learn that in remedial math class?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
But it becomes more clear as time goes on, how money got parted from fools.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The more some people talk, the more it become obvious why some MMO's developers felt they were the perfect target to take advantage of.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well considering the CEO specifically says Trial Account, I am assuming these players are playing for free up to level 20? If they don't have any money invested it makes sense they stop playing pretty quickly.
I mean what percent of people that test drive a car actually purchase. Its probably pretty low.
What percent of people who visit KS website actually spend money.
Makes you wonder if its even worth having a free Demo, or force people to buy in.
Comments
I was not replying to the OP, I was replying to Ungood, who stated Hex was vaporware, which it was not and wanted to specify that. Quoting somebody means you're answering them specifically. That's literally the function of quoting, so I'm really not sure why you felt the need to lecture me in reference to the OP and how Kickstarter projects, as far as MMORPGs go, have been terrible endeavors. I already knew that before I even opened the thread.
And while there are still some on the table that are way over release date, they seem to be making actual progress, and working on the project in good faith.
My apologies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I personally download so many games, only a small portion I actually give more than 10 hours.
It's like a giant Plinko Game. You drop all these numbers into the top and watch them fall where they support or debunk whatever opinion is sought.
Two posters saw the same exact numbers and came to very different conclusions. I saw a lot of bias and opinion liberally applied to the same exact numbers.
Is Kickstarter good for MMO(RPG) funding? It seems NOT too good in my opinion. Zero proof, just 100% biased opinion
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
AAAMEOW said:
Well based on WoW having around 5mil average (low balling it) players playing over 15 years, then doing some rough math.
Based on 90% daily turnover it would require about 246bil total players to support it.
Based on 90% monthly turnover it would require 8bil total players to support it.
Based on 90% yearly turnover it would require 675 mil total players to support it.
Being that Blizzard is reporting 100mil unique total player accounts and has around 5 mil average unique players over 15yrs . having a 10% retention rate wouldn't make since now would it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Anyway, digs aside, we all get it, really we all get it at this point. You got duped and are looking to blame everyone but yourself and the person that screwed you.
Why you don't don't want to put the blame where it belongs, I have no idea, but for some reason or another, you want to blame everyone but the people actually responsible.
In that vein, Kickstarter is only ever involved any project in a very directly limited manner, they do not do anything outside this very narrow scope.
But because they are there, and known, and whatever, people target them and think they should do more, or whatever. Kickstarter makes it clear they will not do more, they have their exact role they play, which they make very clear to anyone using their product, nothing more, nothing less.
If you want to cling to some dream they will get theirs, you can, but much like the people that hope for the zombie apocalypse , it is never going to happen.
Which is why as we have seen, from legal cases being brought up and the like, they cannot be trusted around things like Lootboxes and Gacha, or any kind of Chace Game, as it were.
It's just not something that MMO players in the general sense can seem to be able to handle well.
I wonder if this has anything to do with how many of them admit to not wanting to bother with reading the text, and just click next, to get on with the playing.
Would be fun if someone ran a study on that, if there was any relation between the two personality traits.
I do see now where you got that 10% from.
If you take the derivative of the speed of the BS coming from your mouth during this entire thread. Subtracted by the integral of the acceleration of the sound of your head exploding every time someone uses logic. Add that to Pi squared divided by 100 Million unique WoW accounts. That is almost the 10% you are reaching for. Maybe that's where you got it.
http://www.fdg2014.org/papers/fdg2014_paper_08.pdf
If you build it, they might stay. Retention Mechanisms in world of Warcaft
http://https//www.adcolony.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/WoW_retention_04_24_11.pdf
Interesting.
Since KS only has 34% over its lifetime repeat backers.
WoW is getting 95% repeat players monthly. That means WoW has between 95% and 100% of repeat players over its lifetime.
This is a beatdown not even close, WoW wins hands down.
I don't know the accuracy of link or if it is legit. It's just something I find on google.
https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.174642-Only-30-Percent-of-WoW-Players-Get-Past-Level-10?page=1
Well considering the CEO specifically says Trial Account, I am assuming these players are playing for free up to level 20? If they don't have any money invested it makes sense they stop playing pretty quickly.
I mean what percent of people that test drive a car actually purchase. Its probably pretty low.
What percent of people who visit KS website actually spend money.
Makes you wonder if its even worth having a free Demo, or force people to buy in.