Awsome. it is about time someone voiced our opinions. You took the vets opinion and put it through a megaphone THANK YU SO MUCH. thats why i like this site, these people listen to you and voice it.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
this is precisely what we veterans have been telling SOE for a year now. obviously it fell on deaf ears, and now the game with more potential for success than any other is in its death throws.
Being very blunt and honest here... (be nice for SoE to really take this on board)
I have played or beta tested 25+ MMOGs since 2000, EQ was my main game for 4 years, EQ2 on and off since launch, played MxO and SWG. I love SoE's games but I hate them as a company. Why?....
1) SoE can't seem to write a graphics engine to save their lives. Their games are the most laggiest out there. Even Guild Wars (which is free) has prettier low lag graphics.
2) Whenever SoE patch they always manage to mess up half a dozen other things, or the patch simply doesn't solve the issues it claims it does. This has almost become a joke within the community. Many wonder if SoE progammers are paid by the bug.
3) Yes running an MMOG is a business, but no other MMOG company so evidently puts $$$ ahead of the game. Most notable example of this was the early release of EQ2 to beat WoW to some $$$, even though most the beta community were screaming it wasn't ready. The money guys won over the dev team, and they have paid for that in the long run. The game MUST come first!
4) SoE meddle far too much, but they don't meddle to improve the game, they meddle to attract more subscribers. Has it ever worked for them? No! Learn this lesson.
5) 'Customer Care' - SoE have NO idea what this term means, in fact they probably don't even know what the words mean on their own!
6) Timesinks and Anality. SoE really seem to think that Work=Fun. Their games are full of tedium, timesinks and pure anal ways of doing things. For example - the crafting system in EQ2, probably the most anal thing I have seen in any MMOG ever!
7) No effort to prevent or clean-up 'out of theme' names or names that make phrases. Why go to all the effort to create a wonderfully immersive world like EQ2 and then let idiots call their characters stupid retarded names like 'Askificare Whyshouldi'... I mean, COME ON! Vanguard has a superb naming policy, use it for all your games.
Originally posted by lyndonuk Being very blunt and honest here... (be nice for SoE to really take this on board)
I have played or beta tested 25+ MMOGs since 2000, EQ was my main game for 4 years, EQ2 on and off since launch, played MxO and SWG. I love SoE's games but I hate them as a company. Why?....
1) SoE can't seem to write a graphics engine to save their lives. Their games are the most laggiest out there. Even Guild Wars (which is free) has prettier low lag graphics.
2) Whenever SoE patch they always manage to mess up half a dozen other things, or the patch simply doesn't solve the issues it claims it does. This has almost become a joke within the community. Many wonder if SoE progammers are paid by the bug.
3) Yes running an MMOG is a business, but no other MMOG company so evidently puts $$$ ahead of the game. Most notable example of this was the early release of EQ2 to beat WoW to some $$$, even though most the beta community were screaming it wasn't ready. The money guys won over the dev team, and they have paid for that in the long run. The game MUST come first!
4) SoE meddle far too much, but they don't meddle to improve the game, they meddle to attract more subscribers. Has it ever worked for them? No! Learn this lesson.
5) 'Customer Care' - SoE have NO idea what this term means, in fact they probably don't even know what the words mean on their own!
6) Timesinks and Anality. SoE really seem to think that Work=Fun. Their games are full of tedium, timesinks and pure anal ways of doing things. For example - the crafting system in EQ2, probably the most anal thing I have seen in any MMOG ever!
7) No effort to prevent or clean-up 'out of theme' names or names that make phrases. Why go to all the effort to create a wonderfully immersive world like EQ2 and then let idiots call their characters stupid retarded names like 'Askificare Whyshouldi'... I mean, COME ON! Vanguard has a superb naming policy, use it for all your games.
SoE read and learn!
why would you care what someone's toon name is? i had a Dancer/Musician on Wanderhome named Rapan Pillage. got a few complaints and one day SOE deleted the last name. never could understand why it bothered anyone. just curious.
When SOE took the SWG licence they did so because at that time they were the number one MMO 'specialists' in the business thanks of course to Everquest. However it is worth nothing that Everquest was at that point beginning to show some signs of weakening thanks to the arrival of titles such as Anarchy Online, Asherons Call 2, Earth and Beyond and a few others still sat on my shelf.
During their time at the number one spot the criticisms levelled at SOE had largely been a poor customer service experience and under that what we would deem the 'usual' bugs,balance and content. Nothing spectacular. Its worth noting however that the way that SOE handled these complaints was with an almost mind blowing arrogance.
You play the game or leave, your choice - pretty much how it went.
This was not confined to EQ. Those that followed also appeared to follow this 'Dev Culture' by ignoring the player base, working to some unfathomable agenda, dodging requests for Test Servers and producing third rate content.
Then the cracks began to show. Whilst games like AO and DaOC had problems of their own players were now letting go of thier characters and slowly subs were falling. For all thier faults the new companys were at least engaging thier players on the forums - AO especially worked hard after a disasterous launch to prove itself worthy to the cash paying public.
SOE released SWG as the biggest thing since sliced bread - And why not? A title as hot as Star Wars deserves a fanfare. What they did not do was alter their approach to the playerbase.
Even with the eventual demise of AC2 / Earth and Beyond and many "In production games" SOE decided to ignore the warning signs that the public was clearly able to hit that cancel subscription button.
When WoW hit it was as biggest event in MMO's. Even with the usual gamut of release issues, this was the 'something' else that people had been waiting for. The exodos from other titles must have been felt across the MMO world and caused some serious re-thinks on the financial planning boards. Buckle down, work on content and customer service and weather the storm by maintaining a quality product.
SOE took a different strategem. In a fell swoop they REMOVED classes that some players had been developing since release day. They reduced the work that the hardcore few had put in to obtain the legendary Jedi status (You are our only hope Luke?) and instituted a "push this button to become a Jedi" option. They had the audacity to damand payment for expansions that were virtually required to level the upper band of the classes (Mustafar) and the content was, probably SOEs most consistent feature - bugged to high hell.
The end result was what you see now. Empty cities, Player cities turning to dust and a server screen that has LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW across the board.
On the horizon are Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Gods and Heroes, WoW Exp number 1 and a host of Niche games....good news for gamers everywhere.
Not so good for SOE.
In short you reap what you sow. Sony is gathering the harvest of a disrespectful and arrogant attitude to the very people that feed and clothe its employees.
I can't believe how many pats on the back this article is getting for the writer. Everything in it was said far more eloquently any number of times 4-5 months ago when it became clear the NGE was a dud. The writing was on the wall 3 months ago as the servers became ghost towns and you could go an entire play session and only see one other person in your travels.
This article is at least 2 months too late, and that's being kind. It really should have been saved and posted as part of a post-mortem in the inevitable: "Star Wars Galaxies: How To Successfully Launch A Game And Still Be Judged A Failure" article for when the servers are shut down at the end of the year.
The graphics engine dates from 2000. For its time it was state of the art. If you have a good enough graphics card, it still looks good. Compared to some of these newer games like Dark & Light and Oblivion it looks REAL good. And for its primary function of drawing a realistic Star Wars gameworld, it was and still is excellent.
Unfortunately, in their panicky dumbing-down of the game world into a sort of Super Mario Jedi's experience, SOE added a lot of unrealistic particle and flash effects that place a heavy burden on the engine and make it show its age.
How wonderful it would have been if SOE had held the gameplay model stable and focused its resources on a state of the art graphics engine revamp! Imagine playing that good original game with twice the visual realism. Oh well, maybe next title.
I dont agree that the graphics were that well done, when it came out they were really good but when I do a free 10 day trial and my game lags bad with bad graphics while I can play games like Everquest 2 without any problems at all, theres no way Im playing. I would have no problem opening up a account if they overhauled there graphics.
It is sad that they didnt bother paying more attention to us verteran's, I honestly think the game would come back to its former glory if they just went back to what it was in the Original (Pre-CU) System. The game was unique and wasnt like any other MMO out there. Now its more like "The Clone Wars" if anything, since everyone is the same. If Sony Online Entertainment(SoE) or Lucasarts pay attention to this...then they should learn what thier mistakes are. They lost thier subscriptions because of what they did to the game. And I agree with what he said. This is probably one of the best worded ways I've seen it said too. Good Job!
Yeah, 2 year sub here. They had me at every expansion, until the NGE. I put up with the CUs, and they were "survivable", but when I unlocked my jedi and they gave it away for nothing, and then they killed both my kid's Creature Handlers that pretty much nailed the coffin for me. I tried to come back, I converted on of my alts, and it was a WoW clone. If I wanted that, I'd have been playing WoW. They should have come out with an alternate WoW clone called Star Wars Battlefield MMO and made it all PVP or something and left the original alone for the non-button mashers.
I see someone took you up on your offer, Dana. Very glad someone did. This article is well written and a sterling example of how editorials can provide a refreshing read. MMORPG has been putting up some fine ones in the last couple months. Keep it up.
I completely agree with the writer. Chasing the golden ring did the #1 no no in MMORPG land. Alienating your existing fanbase. Not only that but publicly stating that thier loss was a calculated risk. Its true that in the end, it is all a numbers game but such a blantant and uneven approach is hardly considered advancement nor helpful in fostering loyalty among subscribers and their rule of 7.
Very well written and preciessly why I quit when I did.
For myself, any MMO needs not just simply be playable, it needs to creat an environment that I can grow in , trust and count on when I log in.
After playing SWG for well over a year and a half, I found myself in a game that had little to nothing to do with what I had enjoyed for so much time, unfortunately so much so that I was now lost and dazed (not all that strange for me but still...) to a point where I could not get comfy anymore, feeling almost out of place.
Even now I remember thinking, what else is going to happen? What if my game is changed to a point where I can't even recognize it, what if they get rid of crafting and dancing and image designing. What if resource collecting becomes easy and what if they give out Jedi's to everyone.
I left because of that feeling, the uncertainty of it all drove me away finally. Then, low and behold some time later, it happened, the NGE.
Of course I wont say that I was happy that it happened, because I wasn't at all. I will admit though that I sort of sat back and sighed with relief, being greatful that I had gotten out when I had, lessened the pain and all that. I felt bad for friends who were still playing, but by that time, that number was pretty minimal, mostly I was sad for all that had been lost.
Sure SWG was just a game, you always have to keep that in context with MMO's, constantly reminding yourself that life goes on and there's a real world out there. But still, there's a sadness around the experience, mostly huddled in with great memories of the game.
Logging on to be greeted by all your friends, late night parties at someone's "virtual" house, new discoveries made, crazy characters doing crazy things, auctions, waiting at starports listening and partaking in crazy conversations, the yavin and naboo bars, random and strangely pretty sandstorms. /sigh, a list that goes on and on.
Well anyways, that's enough about that, great article though, something about hitting the nail on the thumb, no no thats head, yeah head, that's right .
Excellent, well written and on target. I played for 19 months, had three active accounts. I was unhappy but accepted the CU but NGE put all my characters and time in game in the garbage.
This WAS a great game ruined by greedy, corporate pin heads.
Yep this is the best I have heard After what Sony had done to this game I won't even look at another product of thiers because this is what they do with all of thier stuff. Its a shame that they took potentialy the greatest franchise and Sh*t on it like that and Lucus let them do it. (
Very nicely done. This entire article can apply to many games, not just the SWG fiasco. Many other ongoing games , recent releases and those to come should all take these words and think about them.
Looks like someone at SoE managed to bash some sense into a manager, so they making a Classic(esque) server.
From the looks of things it's drawing a lot of very old players back, and even some newbs, from what I've seen on the beta server.
Who knows, if it works out well, it might get that cartoonish $ $ in SoEs eyes when looking at SWG potential and they will make a classic server for SWG as well.
Me personaly? I quit when they made me unable to hunt the jedi bountyheads.
Originally posted by BigJonno What makes it worse is that if there ever was a game that needed to stick to its guns, it was SWG. I played the game a couple of months after release and, barring the inevitable problems caused by releasing about six months early, the vast majority of the complaints were from people who just didn't get it. I remember the rallying cry of "please don't let this game be Everquest in space!" It wasn't, it was something completely different and I don't think anyone could have done a better job of recreating an existing setting.
It seems to me that there are two distinct types of MMO out there. Massively multiplayer online games and massively multiplayer online worlds. WoW is very much a MMOG, it is designed to be played in a certain way and everything is geared to creating a fun playing experience. It's probably why this style of game has so many endgame problems, but that's another topic. SWG was very much an online world. There was no particular goal, you were given the Star Wars universe and could live in it however you liked. The reliance on other players (outside of the normal grouping context) was very indicitive of this. The people who were complaining were those who wanted a game and not a world. They were the ones maxing out their characters and wondering what they were supposed to do next. Unfortunately they were a very vocal group and I think that SWG's downfall is a result of that group being listened to too closely.
I agree with you!
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window"
Comments
Very well put. The sad part is they are still added to the confusion with another combat change.
I just wish that SOE will admit that they messed up and just rollback to pre-NGE or pre-CU.
Awsome. it is about time someone voiced our opinions. You took the vets opinion and put it through a megaphone THANK YU SO MUCH. thats why i like this site, these people listen to you and voice it.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
I have played or beta tested 25+ MMOGs since 2000, EQ was my main game for 4 years, EQ2 on and off since launch, played MxO and SWG. I love SoE's games but I hate them as a company. Why?....
1) SoE can't seem to write a graphics engine to save their lives. Their games are the most laggiest out there. Even Guild Wars (which is free) has prettier low lag graphics.
2) Whenever SoE patch they always manage to mess up half a dozen other things, or the patch simply doesn't solve the issues it claims it does. This has almost become a joke within the community. Many wonder if SoE progammers are paid by the bug.
3) Yes running an MMOG is a business, but no other MMOG company so evidently puts $$$ ahead of the game. Most notable example of this was the early release of EQ2 to beat WoW to some $$$, even though most the beta community were screaming it wasn't ready. The money guys won over the dev team, and they have paid for that in the long run. The game MUST come first!
4) SoE meddle far too much, but they don't meddle to improve the game, they meddle to attract more subscribers. Has it ever worked for them? No! Learn this lesson.
5) 'Customer Care' - SoE have NO idea what this term means, in fact they probably don't even know what the words mean on their own!
6) Timesinks and Anality. SoE really seem to think that Work=Fun. Their games are full of tedium, timesinks and pure anal ways of doing things. For example - the crafting system in EQ2, probably the most anal thing I have seen in any MMOG ever!
7) No effort to prevent or clean-up 'out of theme' names or names that make phrases. Why go to all the effort to create a wonderfully immersive world like EQ2 and then let idiots call their characters stupid retarded names like 'Askificare Whyshouldi'... I mean, COME ON! Vanguard has a superb naming policy, use it for all your games.
SoE read and learn!
Excellent article -
no flamefest too , a refreshing change !
Have fun
Erillion
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
When SOE took the SWG licence they did so because at that time they were the number one MMO 'specialists' in the business thanks of course to Everquest. However it is worth nothing that Everquest was at that point beginning to show some signs of weakening thanks to the arrival of titles such as Anarchy Online, Asherons Call 2, Earth and Beyond and a few others still sat on my shelf.
During their time at the number one spot the criticisms levelled at SOE had largely been a poor customer service experience and under that what we would deem the 'usual' bugs,balance and content. Nothing spectacular. Its worth noting however that the way that SOE handled these complaints was with an almost mind blowing arrogance.
You play the game or leave, your choice - pretty much how it went.
This was not confined to EQ. Those that followed also appeared to follow this 'Dev Culture' by ignoring the player base, working to some unfathomable agenda, dodging requests for Test Servers and producing third rate content.
Then the cracks began to show. Whilst games like AO and DaOC had problems of their own players were now letting go of thier characters and slowly subs were falling. For all thier faults the new companys were at least engaging thier players on the forums - AO especially worked hard after a disasterous launch to prove itself worthy to the cash paying public.
SOE released SWG as the biggest thing since sliced bread - And why not? A title as hot as Star Wars deserves a fanfare. What they did not do was alter their approach to the playerbase.
Even with the eventual demise of AC2 / Earth and Beyond and many "In production games" SOE decided to ignore the warning signs that the public was clearly able to hit that cancel subscription button.
When WoW hit it was as biggest event in MMO's. Even with the usual gamut of release issues, this was the 'something' else that people had been waiting for. The exodos from other titles must have been felt across the MMO world and caused some serious re-thinks on the financial planning boards. Buckle down, work on content and customer service and weather the storm by maintaining a quality product.
SOE took a different strategem. In a fell swoop they REMOVED classes that some players had been developing since release day. They reduced the work that the hardcore few had put in to obtain the legendary Jedi status (You are our only hope Luke?) and instituted a "push this button to become a Jedi" option. They had the audacity to damand payment for expansions that were virtually required to level the upper band of the classes (Mustafar) and the content was, probably SOEs most consistent feature - bugged to high hell.
The end result was what you see now. Empty cities, Player cities turning to dust and a server screen that has LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW LOW across the board.
On the horizon are Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Gods and Heroes, WoW Exp number 1 and a host of Niche games....good news for gamers everywhere.
Not so good for SOE.
In short you reap what you sow. Sony is gathering the harvest of a disrespectful and arrogant attitude to the very people that feed and clothe its employees.
Makes me feel all warm inside.
Everything in it was said far more eloquently any number of times 4-5 months ago when it became clear the NGE was a dud. The writing was on the wall 3 months ago as the servers became ghost towns and you could go an entire play session and only see one other person in your travels.
This article is at least 2 months too late, and that's being kind.
It really should have been saved and posted as part of a post-mortem in the inevitable: "Star Wars Galaxies: How To Successfully Launch A Game And Still Be Judged A Failure" article for when the servers are shut down at the end of the year.
Unfortunately, in their panicky dumbing-down of the game world into a sort of Super Mario Jedi's experience, SOE added a lot of unrealistic particle and flash effects that place a heavy burden on the engine and make it show its age.
How wonderful it would have been if SOE had held the gameplay model stable and focused its resources on a state of the art graphics engine revamp! Imagine playing that good original game with twice the visual realism. Oh well, maybe next title.
It is sad that they didnt bother paying more attention to us verteran's, I honestly think the game would come back to its former glory if they just went back to what it was in the Original (Pre-CU) System. The game was unique and wasnt like any other MMO out there. Now its more like "The Clone Wars" if anything, since everyone is the same. If Sony Online Entertainment(SoE) or Lucasarts pay attention to this...then they should learn what thier mistakes are. They lost thier subscriptions because of what they did to the game. And I agree with what he said. This is probably one of the best worded ways I've seen it said too. Good Job!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Yeah, 2 year sub here. They had me at every expansion, until the NGE. I put up with the CUs, and they were "survivable", but when I unlocked my jedi and they gave it away for nothing, and then they killed both my kid's Creature Handlers that pretty much nailed the coffin for me. I tried to come back, I converted on of my alts, and it was a WoW clone. If I wanted that, I'd have been playing WoW. They should have come out with an alternate WoW clone called Star Wars Battlefield MMO and made it all PVP or something and left the original alone for the non-button mashers.
I see someone took you up on your offer, Dana. Very glad someone did. This article is well written and a sterling example of how editorials can provide a refreshing read. MMORPG has been putting up some fine ones in the last couple months. Keep it up.
I completely agree with the writer. Chasing the golden ring did the #1 no no in MMORPG land. Alienating your existing fanbase. Not only that but publicly stating that thier loss was a calculated risk. Its true that in the end, it is all a numbers game but such a blantant and uneven approach is hardly considered advancement nor helpful in fostering loyalty among subscribers and their rule of 7.
Good write. Needed to be said.
Kudos.
For the Horde!
Very well written and preciessly why I quit when I did.
For myself, any MMO needs not just simply be playable, it needs to creat an environment that I can grow in , trust and count on when I log in.
After playing SWG for well over a year and a half, I found myself in a game that had little to nothing to do with what I had enjoyed for so much time, unfortunately so much so that I was now lost and dazed (not all that strange for me but still...) to a point where I could not get comfy anymore, feeling almost out of place.
Even now I remember thinking, what else is going to happen? What if my game is changed to a point where I can't even recognize it, what if they get rid of crafting and dancing and image designing. What if resource collecting becomes easy and what if they give out Jedi's to everyone.
I left because of that feeling, the uncertainty of it all drove me away finally. Then, low and behold some time later, it happened, the NGE.
Of course I wont say that I was happy that it happened, because I wasn't at all. I will admit though that I sort of sat back and sighed with relief, being greatful that I had gotten out when I had, lessened the pain and all that. I felt bad for friends who were still playing, but by that time, that number was pretty minimal, mostly I was sad for all that had been lost.
Sure SWG was just a game, you always have to keep that in context with MMO's, constantly reminding yourself that life goes on and there's a real world out there. But still, there's a sadness around the experience, mostly huddled in with great memories of the game.
Logging on to be greeted by all your friends, late night parties at someone's "virtual" house, new discoveries made, crazy characters doing crazy things, auctions, waiting at starports listening and partaking in crazy conversations, the yavin and naboo bars, random and strangely pretty sandstorms. /sigh, a list that goes on and on.
Well anyways, that's enough about that, great article though, something about hitting the nail on the thumb, no no thats head, yeah head, that's right
.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Excellent, well written and on target. I played for 19 months, had three active accounts. I was unhappy but accepted the CU but NGE put all my characters and time in game in the garbage.
This WAS a great game ruined by greedy, corporate pin heads.
RIP SWG.
Thanks
Jim
Very nicely done. This entire article can apply to many games, not just the SWG fiasco. Many other ongoing games , recent releases and those to come should all take these words and think about them.
kudos Kevin.
Looks like someone at SoE managed to bash some sense into a manager, so they making a Classic(esque) server.
From the looks of things it's drawing a lot of very old players back, and even some newbs, from what I've seen on the beta server.
Who knows, if it works out well, it might get that cartoonish $ $ in SoEs eyes when looking at SWG potential and they will make a classic server for SWG as well.
Me personaly? I quit when they made me unable to hunt the jedi bountyheads.
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window"
your right the easyest way to get more pple to play is word f mouth get yoru vets happy and they will bring there freinds
I'm Here. I'm Awesome. Get Used To It.
It's really quite sad that even SOE has to blame their problems on WoW.
SWG failed because LucasArts/SOE didn't listen to their community and went on with their decisions-- that quite horribly failed.
SWG would've been great with the NGE if only they had added more content for those who didn't exactly have level 80 in the cross-over.