1. Why should gaming companies be held to a different standard than other? You will pay more for better or more features on meals, hotels, airfare, television, telephone, automobiles, homes, apartments, education etc. , why not games?
2. If HJ offers a little more than other games do at the base rate, why would you not play because they offer even more for a larger fee?
I suppose the answer for me is that a lot of what I'm paying for when I subscribe to an MMO is, to use a word I used earlier, equity. Equity means quite a lot to me, most likely because I'm fairly low-income and it's not something I see much of in the real world. MMOs are fantasy worlds, fantasy realities, and part of my fantasy is to avoid the monetary caste system I'm inescapably part of in my daily life. As long as there are premium games on the market that are offering full service for a flat fee, I'll always have somewhere else to go that won't make me feel so..second-class.
Based on what I just said, my answer to question number two would be that I might play a game with fewer desirable features and a flat fee rather than a game with more desirable features and tiered fees, because one of the things I'm looking for in an MMO is the absence of tiered fees, or rather the absence of the things tiered fees make me feel- namely, second-class. Would my feelings be different if I could easily afford the top tier of pricing? I can't answer that until I'm there, but I'd imagine it would. The view from the penthouse is dramaticaly different from the view from the curb.
Since that's not the case, I can't afford more than $20 per month, I can only say that my perception of tiered pricing is as follows: since I could afford less than a platinum customer, my business would be valued less than a platinum customer, I'd have access to less than a platinum customer, and that I would, as a result, feel like less as a non-platinum customer. Certainly, much of this can be attributed to my own issues, financial and otherwise. That does not, however, change my feelings in any way. My feelings are what they are, and they usually make the decisions for me when it comes to entertainment expenditures. I have a hard time rationalizing the thought of playing a videogame based on being a hero when I feel like a peasant before I've even logged in, and that's what tiered pricing does for me.
Originally posted by Sylvado A few points and a few questions.
Simutronics is a business. The purpose of a business is to make money. Never trust anyone that offers you a product or service and claims that it it for any reason other than making money. Most products and services are offered on a tiered system. True. However MMORPGs do not. HJ would be the first. Questions:
1. Why should gaming companies be held to a different standard than other? You will pay more for better or more features on meals, hotels, airfare, television, telephone, automobiles, homes, apartments, education etc. , why not games? Competition. RTS games are basically all the same, slightly different features, art, ect, but still very similar. Same with RPG's, Stratagy games, ect. You buy any new PC game look to pay about $50 no mater what genre it is. Then you get to MMO's if it is a older game. $10 a month, period. If it is a newer game $15 a month, period. THAT is the MMO market, and on a larger scope the PC and concole game market. Tiered pricing takes you above that market, with no decernable featuers to support it.
2. If HJ offers a little more than other games do at the base rate, why would you not play because they offer even more for a larger fee? What are they offering more of? Fun? That is subjective, for everyone it will be different. However when you look at some of the things that will NOT be in HJ (like crafting, a huge aspect of MMO's in general ) you can make a very good argument that they offer LESS than othere MMO's. There have been absolutly NO features mentioned in HJ that are not in other MMO's for their single price. Then there is the whole "perception" thing. Some and maybe many gamers would see this kind of thing as Simu being a bunch of "money grubbers". Not a good thing, but you might be able to get away with it if you are say, SOE. Probably not so much if you are a small company trying to break into the MMO scene. I think they would actually loose revenue from tiered pricing, not gain it.
Originally posted by Chessack Originally posted by raccoon Er, where was I? Oh, right. There was no advantage to having Premium. Since I doubt they'll be putting in a 'pay per character' system again, there'll be less need for Premium. I can see them doing Platinum for those RPers that want it. Simu's always been good about answering their players' needs and if the players need to get away from the community as a whole, they'll probably make that possible... for the right price
So, if you don't want to see Platinum come into existence, be nice to the RPers.
What else, what else... if you're really worried that you'll be able to buy plats with real world money, you should give Traders a problem, not GMs. Damn Traders and their awesome, awesome stores full of pretty, pretty goods.
There are so many problems with such a system though. Let us assume that "Platinum" servers are special ones like you are envisioning, and that lots of the RPers pay for Platinum and go there to get away from the uberleets. I can see this happening, and I could understand the players' motivation for it.
However, not every RPer is going to be able to go to such monetary lengths. If you're talking about a substantially larger amount of $$, now you have fractured the RP community into the "haves" (on the Platinum server(s)), and the have nots (on the regular servers). I don't see the idea of splitting up the RP community into subsets as a good one. In most MMORPGs there are maybe, maybe, enough real RP-oriented people to make one full RP server. In games that have an RP server ,this seems to work reasonably well. In games that refuse to make official RP servers, even though the players will try to organize unofficial ones, it never works, and the community of RPers gets split into tiny fractions across ALL the servers.
If they are serious about wanting to "put the RP back in MMORPGs" then they need to promote and encourage roleplay, and dividing the RP audience up based on who can afford the "RP server" and who cannot is not going to do that. It's going to fracture the audience. It's going to breed resentment amongst those who are true RPers but don't have the extra cash to spend on a platinum server.
This whole thing sounds money-grabbing to me. You can play the basic game, but they take a few VERY desirable elements of the game -- not necessary but very popular and highly prized by gamers, such as private housing, special zones, access to events, and focused special servers like RP-oriented srevers -- and make those very expensive. Thus you can get a base experience for the same price in HJ as the full experience costs in every other game... and then if you want the full experience, you can double, triple, or quadruple the base price. It's ugly. It's hideous. I cannot support such a scheme. And I probably will not, if they implement it. I'll go find another game to play instead, most likely. Because I'm for damn sure not paying them +$25 or something just to have a private house.
C
Sorry for the delayed reply. Life and stuff, y'know...
That's your choice, really. And... that's all I have to say, since Illuminati has said that it hasn't even been discussed, as I figured. If/Once they announce tiered pricing, I'll assume you'll have moved on, which will be regrettable. The game's gonna rock and even if someone gets a little something more for paying real money, I won't be too put off as I'll be having fun with what is available to me.
Originally posted by Morneblade Originally posted by Sylvado A few points and a few questions.
Simutronics is a business. The purpose of a business is to make money. Never trust anyone that offers you a product or service and claims that it it for any reason other than making money. Most products and services are offered on a tiered system. True. However MMORPGs do not. HJ would be the first. Questions:
1. Why should gaming companies be held to a different standard than other? You will pay more for better or more features on meals, hotels, airfare, television, telephone, automobiles, homes, apartments, education etc. , why not games? Competition. RTS games are basically all the same, slightly different features, art, ect, but still very similar. Same with RPG's, Stratagy games, ect. You buy any new PC game look to pay about $50 no mater what genre it is. Then you get to MMO's if it is a older game. $10 a month, period. If it is a newer game $15 a month, period. THAT is the MMO market, and on a larger scope the PC and concole game market. Tiered pricing takes you above that market, with no decernable featuers to support it.
2. If HJ offers a little more than other games do at the base rate, why would you not play because they offer even more for a larger fee? What are they offering more of? Fun? That is subjective, for everyone it will be different. However when you look at some of the things that will NOT be in HJ (like crafting, a huge aspect of MMO's in general ) you can make a very good argument that they offer LESS than othere MMO's. There have been absolutly NO features mentioned in HJ that are not in other MMO's for their single price. Then there is the whole "perception" thing. Some and maybe many gamers would see this kind of thing as Simu being a bunch of "money grubbers". Not a good thing, but you might be able to get away with it if you are say, SOE. Probably not so much if you are a small company trying to break into the MMO scene. I think they would actually loose revenue from tiered pricing, not gain it.
Just to clarify something: HJ would NOT be the first MMO to offer tiered service. To my knowledge, Everquest, EQII, and a few others have already done this. Everquest started with its $50 a month service level a long time ago, and EQII has several pricing options as well. HJ having tiered pricing probably wouldn't really affect them one way or the other, since the world didn't end when other games tried it.
Agent_X7 AKA J Star [/URL] Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
The EQII stuff is so common knowledge, I'm not going to bother looking up links. 14.99 - EQII basic +6.99 - extra character slots +.99 - 2.99 extra web info 21.99 station access with extra slots, extra web info, and free adventure packs
Agent_X7 AKA J Star [/URL] Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Anyway, who ever said that the premium perscribers don't get any advantage is full of crap. I played DR for years and they/we sure as hell had an advantage. I'd go over it with you but it's in the other thread, just look for it.
Not to mention that 75% of the people who would play HJ, won't play it, if it's too much money. There are too many good games out there that let you pay 15 bucks and everyone get's the same thing.
Ok, I get the picture now. I did know about the extra character slots. I wasn't aware of the other. But then, we all know Sony finds ways to get more money. They also have the big name and have been getting away with this because some gamers buy into it.
I suppose it's just a matter of time before other game companies follow suit. Whatever the public will bear seems to be the creed of most every business now. I know they are in the business to make money and it costs a lot to develop an online game. Plus, as we get better technology and more detailed games, it costs even more to produce. The costs have to be returned in some way, so it's a matter of time until companies find ways to do that. I would consider paying more for the box for an anticipated game, or even twenty dollars a month. But, I don't want to go into a game blindly. I want to know up front the costs that will incurr, with no later surprises. And, I want to know I will be getting the full game and anyone paying more isn't getting perks I need for the game I'm playing. I don't care about housing, although I did enjoy the decorating in SWG I did for friends. I hate not having enough storage space, so if I have to collect stuff, I want enough room for it.
The bottom line for most of us is just that we have limited money to put into gaming. It is entertainment for us and casual gamers don't put enough hours into a game to want to pay a lot for one. Also, I really don't want to anticipate a game that looks terrific, like HJ does, and then be disappointed because it turns out to cost more than I want to pay. Gaming companies need to be upfront with gamers, no release surprises. We want to look forward to playing a game in development that we can afford.
Originally posted by Morneblade Originally posted by Sylvado
What are they offering more of? Fun? That is subjective, for everyone it will be different. However when you look at some of the things that will NOT be in HJ (like crafting, a huge aspect of MMO's in general ) you can make a very good argument that they offer LESS than othere MMO's. There have been absolutly NO features mentioned in HJ that are not in other MMO's for their single price.
I'm not sure where you're reading your game info, but we haven't said we're not offering crafting. We're just not releasing information on it because we're trying to make sure it's not going to be the monotonous button mashing prevalent in MMOs.
I dont know how i feel about teired pricing after reading about it. Personally i hope it isnt in HJ, i dont really want people who pay extra to get first crack at anything. Unless every teired person is on their own server. I dont wanna anyone who payed more, to say, have better weapons then me soley because he paid more money to play then i did.
Ticketed events are another thing, Like everquest 2, adventure packs, i would pay 2-5 bucks to access limited time zones for stuff, but its offered to everyone, and its affordable.. i cant justify paying 40-50 bucks amonth though.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Originally posted by HJ-Illuminat Originally posted by Morneblade Originally posted by Sylvado
What are they offering more of? Fun? That is subjective, for everyone it will be different. However when you look at some of the things that will NOT be in HJ (like crafting, a huge aspect of MMO's in general ) you can make a very good argument that they offer LESS than othere MMO's. There have been absolutly NO features mentioned in HJ that are not in other MMO's for their single price.
I'm not sure where you're reading your game info, but we haven't said we're not offering crafting. We're just not releasing information on it because we're trying to make sure it's not going to be the monotonous button mashing prevalent in MMOs.
GM Illuminatis World Builder Hero's Journey
Here and at Hero's Hall. Only information I have seen was that "service abilities" were going to be it for crafting.
Just to clarify something: HJ would NOT be the first MMO to offer tiered service. To my knowledge, Everquest, EQII, and a few others have already done this. Everquest started with its $50 a month service level a long time ago, and EQII has several pricing options as well. HJ having tiered pricing probably wouldn't really affect them one way or the other, since the world didn't end when other games tried it.
Ok, went and checked on this. Some of it was stuff like paper dolls and webistes,t hose I know about and not really game related. I was not aware of some of the other ingame things and was somwhat disturbed. Now I understand a bit more when I hear alot of SOE players bitch about how SOE is a bunch of money grubbing scumbags. And while SOE might be able to get away with it due to their size, I dont know how a small company would fare. Also, having one of the more hated aspects of a company that is arguablely the most hated in the MMO community I dont see as a good thing.
Here and at Hero's Hall. Only information I have seen was that "service abilities" were going to be it for crafting.
Service abilities aren't part of crafting. They're just unigue "things" that each class will be able to do that no other class can. Crafting has been something we haven't been releasing info on because we don't want to say one thing and then change it for something better. We did say at E3 though that Wyr will tie into the crafting system.
Not to mention that 75% of the people who would play HJ, won't play it, if it's too much money. There are too many good games out there that let you pay 15 bucks and everyone get's the same thing.
And there's another consideration here.
Almost everyone I know nowadays multi-MMOs. I play both COH and Ryzom. Both are $15/month. I know folks who play GW + something else (GW is free). I know people who have, yes, the "station pass" from SOE, because they play several games, and it's cheaper to buy the station pass than to individually subscribe to each game (so using it as an example of "tiered" pricing is a bit of a red herring).
If you start talking about tiered pricing, you are now not just charging say $40 a month to play the "better" version of this one game. You are going to take the gamer's "gaming budget" for the month, which previously supported several games, and the higher tier is now going to suck it up all on one game.
I question whether this would have any hope of working. To work, the game would have to be the most incredibly phenomenal thing ever produced. Otherwise, the odds you are going to get people to drop 2-3 other MMOs just to play one game, are just teeny-tiny. Lots of people play GW because it has no subs fee, and thus lets them keep playing some other MMO(s) while enjoying it too. How many would play it in place of their other MMO though, if GW had a subs fee? A lot less, I'd bet.
You know City of Heroes/Villains was going to try this. Originally, way back while the 2nd "game" (or "expansion", though it is a stand-alone), City of Villains, was in development, the original plan that they announced was, COV is "its own game." You can buy it and play a villain for $15/month. You can play a hero on the old COH game for $15/month. But if you want to play both? Well since it is 2 games, it's going to be $30.
This is tiered pricing in its most basic form. The argument was, "There's nothing 'left out' of COH -- you can still play it."
And the result? A huge, unholy uproar on the forums. People were quite adamant, that as good as COH was, and as much as they wanted to play a villain, there was no way in hell they were going to pay $30/month to play the 2 games. "Charge us for the 2nd box, that's fine, but one subs fee," was the consensus. Most people said they would either refuse to buy COV at all, costing Cryptic/NCsoft both box sales and the subs fee... or they would ditch their COH account and replace it with COV.
There was so much vitriol and anger over this that Cryptic finally announced you just had to buy the box, and if you did it worked like an "expansion". Your existing COH subscription would pay for COV too, and you were all set. Or, you could get a 2nd account, or you could buy COV stand-alone, etc. All for the same $15/month. Oh, and they then added 4 alt slots per server for villains, because people complained their 8 slots were in many cases already filled up. This was added free of charge.
My point with this story is -- Cryptic/NCSoft tried this. They tried to do tiered pricing for COH and COV. COH alone = $15/month, no superhero base. COV alone = $15/month, villains only but you get base access. COV + COH together = $30/month for base access on both hero and villains, and access to both games. They tried this tiered system, and there was a massive revolt over it. And this was a revolt, not of potential customers, but existing hardcore COH fanbois, who will defend the game in every other regard to the hilt. Those people, their most dedicated lovers, turned on them when they announced plans to have this tiered system. So they had to trash it.
People have a certain idea in their head of what an online game -- no matter how many features it has -- is worth. Some of this is determined by history (how much the games have generally cost). Some of it is determined by the current market (how much do other similar games cost?). But a lot of it is determined by what the player perceives he's getting for the money. In the COH case, the vast, huge majority of players felt completely unwilling to pay 2x the money to play the 2 "sides" of the same game, and the company had to back off.
I suspect that if HJ tries to charge double or triple price for "better" service, they're going to see a similar reaction as Cryptic did. Only it will be worse -- because HJ does NOT have a legion of devoted fans with a vested interest in the game yet... and Cryptic already had that.
personally, i like it when everyone has their own distinct weapons and armors, but i'd be pissed if they gave the people that purchased tickets better looking gear/and or more powerfull gear...that's a move SOE would make to nickel and dime their subscribers...either way i feel that simutronics would be doing this as a way to increase their revinue in a rather unethical way....it's a sketchy idea if you ask me
IF (Please note the IF) we do ticketed events, there MIGHT be better LOOKING items (also you would be paying for just the looks.. physically they wouldn't be any better) but those items would also probably be sold in the game by the players that went on the events. Sure they would cost more, but it's not like you could never ever get your hands on them.
Tiered pricing will NOT have better items IF we do it.
Anyway, I just sneezed and bit my tongue. I hate my tongue. Damn.
I know it's something that Simu has been doing for quite some time, but I think that people that havnt played their MUD's are going to look at it in exactly that way. An SOE type company that nickles and dimes their customers. I just think it's a bad move for a company trying to break into the MMO market, which predominantly does not do that. SOE hasn't been called the "Evil Empire" for nothing, and being labled as a little SOE is nto a good thing......
Originally posted by Brynn Excuse me? Get my hands on them by buying them from someone who could afford to buy the special event? Not accectable!
Hm. I think of it like this. If your friend went on a trip (that you really really wanted to go on) and you couldn't go because you couldn't afford it, and there was this really awesome shop there, and you knew exactly what you wanted there, you could give them money to get you (whatever) even though you couldn't go. Ticketed events are kinda like that.
I've never been on a ticketed event, and really, it never mattered to me. I have friends in DR who have (too many) quest items, and I.. well I scrape for most of my stuff.
Honestly, I think there are better things sold at festivals. (sometimes I think you guys think I'm some snobby rich girl or some junk, but really, I live in the projects and am broke unless mom gives me a few bucks. I know how it is to not be able to afford every(or any)thing. And by broke, I mean literally have absolutely 0 dollars)
Is it unfair to have a merchant at a festival sell out of (item) after so many purchases? Even if everyone has the chance to buy one?
And would it be fair to be able to pay a (probably hefty) IG fee if you can't afford real money to go to a ticketed event?
It would probably be cheaper to go to the event. My greedy friend would probably overcharge me, hehe.
Anyway, the scenario you are picturing, Diviana, seems to me just ripe for eBay sales. I really wonder how many players, even of those who can afford eBay, want this trend to continue. The perception is, and you know it, that if only players who can afford to buy the best, will have the best, then that doesn't sound like fun. I suppose I should include the power gamers in that group, since someone has to loot the loot to be able to sell it. Anyway you look at it, not fun for casual players.
Originally posted by Brynn It would probably be cheaper to go to the event. My greedy friend would probably overcharge me, hehe. Anyway, the scenario you are picturing, Diviana, seems to me just ripe for eBay sales. I really wonder how many players, even of those who can afford eBay, want this trend to continue. The perception is, and you know it, that if only players who can afford to buy the best, will have the best, then that doesn't sound like fun. I suppose I should include the power gamers in that group, since someone has to loot the loot to be able to sell it. Anyway you look at it, not fun for casual players.
Simu has always tried really hard not to give a premium payer an advanatage over a non-premium. As far as advanacing in their games went. (Even the hunting area DR premium got wasn't a big advanatage. Just a quieter hunting place.) The extra perks were largely in the ways of RP tools, extra locker space, advanced ticket sales with a slightly lower ticket price, and a quicker CS response time. (Which honestly was only minutely quicker.) There are also a ton more free events going on per year then pay events. Pay events were usually festivals, auctions or immensely huge quests that took days to complete by a large group of people working together.
All in all though. What the pricing structure and/or possibility of pay events will be is still up in the air. You'll probably see a few polls pop up on the official site about the subject before anything official is announced. Simu has always collected feedback on such subjects before making decisions.
Tiered pricing doesnt sound that bad, I think the fact that its an added fee is all people are listening too. But you gotta keep in mind these events are usually run by human gms behind the scenes who are working overtime to better your enjoyment of the game. I say just wait and see what events are offered and how they are handled before we shut down the idea of ticketed events.
Besides these events are optional, and i am sure you can enjoy the game 100% without participating in a single pay event.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Comments
Based on what I just said, my answer to question number two would be that I might play a game with fewer desirable features and a flat fee rather than a game with more desirable features and tiered fees, because one of the things I'm looking for in an MMO is the absence of tiered fees, or rather the absence of the things tiered fees make me feel- namely, second-class. Would my feelings be different if I could easily afford the top tier of pricing? I can't answer that until I'm there, but I'd imagine it would. The view from the penthouse is dramaticaly different from the view from the curb.
Since that's not the case, I can't afford more than $20 per month, I can only say that my perception of tiered pricing is as follows: since I could afford less than a platinum customer, my business would be valued less than a platinum customer, I'd have access to less than a platinum customer, and that I would, as a result, feel like less as a non-platinum customer. Certainly, much of this can be attributed to my own issues, financial and otherwise. That does not, however, change my feelings in any way. My feelings are what they are, and they usually make the decisions for me when it comes to entertainment expenditures. I have a hard time rationalizing the thought of playing a videogame
based on being a hero when I feel like a peasant before I've even
logged in, and that's what tiered pricing does for me.
However, not every RPer is going to be able to go to such monetary lengths. If you're talking about a substantially larger amount of $$, now you have fractured the RP community into the "haves" (on the Platinum server(s)), and the have nots (on the regular servers). I don't see the idea of splitting up the RP community into subsets as a good one. In most MMORPGs there are maybe, maybe, enough real RP-oriented people to make one full RP server. In games that have an RP server ,this seems to work reasonably well. In games that refuse to make official RP servers, even though the players will try to organize unofficial ones, it never works, and the community of RPers gets split into tiny fractions across ALL the servers.
If they are serious about wanting to "put the RP back in MMORPGs" then they need to promote and encourage roleplay, and dividing the RP audience up based on who can afford the "RP server" and who cannot is not going to do that. It's going to fracture the audience. It's going to breed resentment amongst those who are true RPers but don't have the extra cash to spend on a platinum server.
This whole thing sounds money-grabbing to me. You can play the basic game, but they take a few VERY desirable elements of the game -- not necessary but very popular and highly prized by gamers, such as private housing, special zones, access to events, and focused special servers like RP-oriented srevers -- and make those very expensive. Thus you can get a base experience for the same price in HJ as the full experience costs in every other game... and then if you want the full experience, you can double, triple, or quadruple the base price. It's ugly. It's hideous. I cannot support such a scheme. And I probably will not, if they implement it. I'll go find another game to play instead, most likely. Because I'm for damn sure not paying them +$25 or something just to have a private house.
C
Sorry for the delayed reply. Life and stuff, y'know...
That's your choice, really. And... that's all I have to say, since Illuminati has said that it hasn't even been discussed, as I figured. If/Once they announce tiered pricing, I'll assume you'll have moved on, which will be regrettable. The game's gonna rock and even if someone gets a little something more for paying real money, I won't be too put off as I'll be having fun with what is available to me.
Just to clarify something: HJ would NOT be the first MMO to offer tiered service. To my knowledge, Everquest, EQII, and a few others have already done this. Everquest started with its $50 a month service level a long time ago, and EQII has several pricing options as well. HJ having tiered pricing probably wouldn't really affect them one way or the other, since the world didn't end when other games tried it.
Agent_X7 AKA J Star
[/URL]
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
All sorts of information is out there on the internet for anyone who will take half a second to look for it.
http://legends.everquest.station.sony.com/
The EQII stuff is so common knowledge, I'm not going to bother looking up links.
14.99 - EQII basic
+6.99 - extra character slots
+.99 - 2.99 extra web info
21.99 station access with extra slots, extra web info, and free adventure packs
Agent_X7 AKA J Star
[/URL]
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Anyway, who ever said that the premium perscribers don't get any advantage is full of crap. I played DR for years and they/we sure as hell had an advantage. I'd go over it with you but it's in the other thread, just look for it.
Not to mention that 75% of the people who would play HJ, won't play it, if it's too much money. There are too many good games out there that let you pay 15 bucks and everyone get's the same thing.
Ok, I get the picture now. I did know about the extra character slots. I wasn't aware of the other. But then, we all know Sony finds ways to get more money. They also have the big name and have been getting away with this because some gamers buy into it.
I suppose it's just a matter of time before other game companies follow suit. Whatever the public will bear seems to be the creed of most every business now. I know they are in the business to make money and it costs a lot to develop an online game. Plus, as we get better technology and more detailed games, it costs even more to produce. The costs have to be returned in some way, so it's a matter of time until companies find ways to do that. I would consider paying more for the box for an anticipated game, or even twenty dollars a month. But, I don't want to go into a game blindly. I want to know up front the costs that will incurr, with no later surprises. And, I want to know I will be getting the full game and anyone paying more isn't getting perks I need for the game I'm playing. I don't care about housing, although I did enjoy the decorating in SWG I did for friends. I hate not having enough storage space, so if I have to collect stuff, I want enough room for it.
The bottom line for most of us is just that we have limited money to put into gaming. It is entertainment for us and casual gamers don't put enough hours into a game to want to pay a lot for one. Also, I really don't want to anticipate a game that looks terrific, like HJ does, and then be disappointed because it turns out to cost more than I want to pay. Gaming companies need to be upfront with gamers, no release surprises. We want to look forward to playing a game in development that we can afford.
I'm not sure where you're reading your game info, but we haven't said we're not offering crafting. We're just not releasing information on it because we're trying to make sure it's not going to be the monotonous button mashing prevalent in MMOs.
GM Illuminatis
World Builder
Hero's Journey
I dont know how i feel about teired pricing after reading about it. Personally i hope it isnt in HJ, i dont really want people who pay extra to get first crack at anything. Unless every teired person is on their own server. I dont wanna anyone who payed more, to say, have better weapons then me soley because he paid more money to play then i did.
Ticketed events are another thing, Like everquest 2, adventure packs, i would pay 2-5 bucks to access limited time zones for stuff, but its offered to everyone, and its affordable.. i cant justify paying 40-50 bucks amonth though.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I'm not sure where you're reading your game info, but we haven't said we're not offering crafting. We're just not releasing information on it because we're trying to make sure it's not going to be the monotonous button mashing prevalent in MMOs.
GM Illuminatis
World Builder
Hero's Journey
Here and at Hero's Hall. Only information I have seen was that "service abilities" were going to be it for crafting.
Almost everyone I know nowadays multi-MMOs. I play both COH and Ryzom. Both are $15/month. I know folks who play GW + something else (GW is free). I know people who have, yes, the "station pass" from SOE, because they play several games, and it's cheaper to buy the station pass than to individually subscribe to each game (so using it as an example of "tiered" pricing is a bit of a red herring).
If you start talking about tiered pricing, you are now not just charging say $40 a month to play the "better" version of this one game. You are going to take the gamer's "gaming budget" for the month, which previously supported several games, and the higher tier is now going to suck it up all on one game.
I question whether this would have any hope of working. To work, the game would have to be the most incredibly phenomenal thing ever produced. Otherwise, the odds you are going to get people to drop 2-3 other MMOs just to play one game, are just teeny-tiny. Lots of people play GW because it has no subs fee, and thus lets them keep playing some other MMO(s) while enjoying it too. How many would play it in place of their other MMO though, if GW had a subs fee? A lot less, I'd bet.
You know City of Heroes/Villains was going to try this. Originally, way back while the 2nd "game" (or "expansion", though it is a stand-alone), City of Villains, was in development, the original plan that they announced was, COV is "its own game." You can buy it and play a villain for $15/month. You can play a hero on the old COH game for $15/month. But if you want to play both? Well since it is 2 games, it's going to be $30.
This is tiered pricing in its most basic form. The argument was, "There's nothing 'left out' of COH -- you can still play it."
And the result? A huge, unholy uproar on the forums. People were quite adamant, that as good as COH was, and as much as they wanted to play a villain, there was no way in hell they were going to pay $30/month to play the 2 games. "Charge us for the 2nd box, that's fine, but one subs fee," was the consensus. Most people said they would either refuse to buy COV at all, costing Cryptic/NCsoft both box sales and the subs fee... or they would ditch their COH account and replace it with COV.
There was so much vitriol and anger over this that Cryptic finally announced you just had to buy the box, and if you did it worked like an "expansion". Your existing COH subscription would pay for COV too, and you were all set. Or, you could get a 2nd account, or you could buy COV stand-alone, etc. All for the same $15/month. Oh, and they then added 4 alt slots per server for villains, because people complained their 8 slots were in many cases already filled up. This was added free of charge.
My point with this story is -- Cryptic/NCSoft tried this. They tried to do tiered pricing for COH and COV. COH alone = $15/month, no superhero base. COV alone = $15/month, villains only but you get base access. COV + COH together = $30/month for base access on both hero and villains, and access to both games. They tried this tiered system, and there was a massive revolt over it. And this was a revolt, not of potential customers, but existing hardcore COH fanbois, who will defend the game in every other regard to the hilt. Those people, their most dedicated lovers, turned on them when they announced plans to have this tiered system. So they had to trash it.
People have a certain idea in their head of what an online game -- no matter how many features it has -- is worth. Some of this is determined by history (how much the games have generally cost). Some of it is determined by the current market (how much do other similar games cost?). But a lot of it is determined by what the player perceives he's getting for the money. In the COH case, the vast, huge majority of players felt completely unwilling to pay 2x the money to play the 2 "sides" of the same game, and the company had to back off.
I suspect that if HJ tries to charge double or triple price for "better" service, they're going to see a similar reaction as Cryptic did. Only it will be worse -- because HJ does NOT have a legion of devoted fans with a vested interest in the game yet... and Cryptic already had that.
C
personally, i like it when everyone has their own distinct weapons and armors, but i'd be pissed if they gave the people that purchased tickets better looking gear/and or more powerfull gear...that's a move SOE would make to nickel and dime their subscribers...either way i feel that simutronics would be doing this as a way to increase their revinue in a rather unethical way....it's a sketchy idea if you ask me
IF (Please note the IF) we do ticketed events, there MIGHT be better LOOKING items (also you would be paying for just the looks.. physically they wouldn't be any better) but those items would also probably be sold in the game by the players that went on the events. Sure they would cost more, but it's not like you could never ever get your hands on them.
Tiered pricing will NOT have better items IF we do it.
Anyway, I just sneezed and bit my tongue. I hate my tongue. Damn.
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
I know it's something that Simu has been doing for quite some time, but I think that people that havnt played their MUD's are going to look at it in exactly that way. An SOE type company that nickles and dimes their customers. I just think it's a bad move for a company trying to break into the MMO market, which predominantly does not do that. SOE hasn't been called the "Evil Empire" for nothing, and being labled as a little SOE is nto a good thing......
Hm. I think of it like this. If your friend went on a trip (that you really really wanted to go on) and you couldn't go because you couldn't afford it, and there was this really awesome shop there, and you knew exactly what you wanted there, you could give them money to get you (whatever) even though you couldn't go. Ticketed events are kinda like that.
I've never been on a ticketed event, and really, it never mattered to me. I have friends in DR who have (too many) quest items, and I.. well I scrape for most of my stuff.
Honestly, I think there are better things sold at festivals. (sometimes I think you guys think I'm some snobby rich girl or some junk, but really, I live in the projects and am broke unless mom gives me a few bucks. I know how it is to not be able to afford every(or any)thing. And by broke, I mean literally have absolutely 0 dollars)
Is it unfair to have a merchant at a festival sell out of (item) after so many purchases? Even if everyone has the chance to buy one?
And would it be fair to be able to pay a (probably hefty) IG fee if you can't afford real money to go to a ticketed event?
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
It would probably be cheaper to go to the event.
My greedy friend would probably overcharge me, hehe.
Anyway, the scenario you are picturing, Diviana, seems to me just ripe for eBay sales. I really wonder how many players, even of those who can afford eBay, want this trend to continue. The perception is, and you know it, that if only players who can afford to buy the best, will have the best, then that doesn't sound like fun. I suppose I should include the power gamers in that group, since someone has to loot the loot to be able to sell it. Anyway you look at it, not fun for casual players.
Simu has always tried really hard not to give a premium payer an advanatage over a non-premium. As far as advanacing in their games went. (Even the hunting area DR premium got wasn't a big advanatage. Just a quieter hunting place.) The extra perks were largely in the ways of RP tools, extra locker space, advanced ticket sales with a slightly lower ticket price, and a quicker CS response time. (Which honestly was only minutely quicker.) There are also a ton more free events going on per year then pay events. Pay events were usually festivals, auctions or immensely huge quests that took days to complete by a large group of people working together.
All in all though. What the pricing structure and/or possibility of pay events will be is still up in the air. You'll probably see a few polls pop up on the official site about the subject before anything official is announced. Simu has always collected feedback on such subjects before making decisions.
GM Illuminatis
World Builder
Hero's Journey
Tiered pricing doesnt sound that bad, I think the fact that its an added fee is all people are listening too. But you gotta keep in mind these events are usually run by human gms behind the scenes who are working overtime to better your enjoyment of the game. I say just wait and see what events are offered and how they are handled before we shut down the idea of ticketed events.
Besides these events are optional, and i am sure you can enjoy the game 100% without participating in a single pay event.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson