Eve is a good game, despite being a bit tedious at times. From my experience playing the game, the biggest complaint I've heard is about the manner of skilling up. Sure, you can raise skills while you are afk...and even train 24 hours a day easily, but a person who starts today will never have the same amount of skill points as the person who started 3 years ago.
Eve is not a game where everyone can reach a level cap within a few days. In Eve, there is no cap. Because of the game mechanics, unless the vets forget to train, they will always have more skill points than a noob. No matter how hard you work or try, you will not train at a faster rate. Raising skills is not based on how you perform in the game. This limits noobs to being specialized to be the most effective in PVP settings.
At the same time, there are diminishing returns within the skill system...the more you train a particular skill, the more time you are forced to spend on it to get the same amount of benefit. This helps to equalize things a bit between the noob and the vet.
As far as fun value - the real fun begins once players join a player-run corporation. Space is a bit lonely out on your own.
It's a pretty damn good game. CCP continues to impress me.
Originally posted by Jorev Originally posted by ssstupido dont be so quick to call problems. for me the skill training is perfect, the best so far i have seen. IMHO it is just fair to reward veteran players not because they have paid more, but because they have been on the game more time, and real time training is the most elegant way to do that. and at the same time it takes away the grind.
and of course, you should know that the only reason you are able to catch up veterans on any other MMORPG is because they are capped at a pointless, stupid and artificial level limit. if it werent for that crappy feature veterans would be ahead on every game.
meanwhile, EVE accepts this, and decided to not have a level limit. instead there is a limit to every skill, so that you can only train to level 5. that, and the 300 different skills make it so that veterans can not be the best at everything and any new player can be the best at any single thing within 5 or 6 months, and be just as good as a 3 year old player.
i starte 1 year ago, and i am already wining a lot of money producing ships and modules, competing with 3 year vets on the same ground. at the same time i am a very good miner, and a decent mision runner and pvper. in fact, i am as good with the dominix as anybody can be. so i dont care if a veteran has 15 million skill points more than i do. when fighting on a domi nobody can have more skills than me.
I am not surprised you like the real world time based skill system and that you happen to be from Europe.
The real world time based skill system is a socialist one, as it rewards and protects veterans and doesn't emphasize merit which would be more capitalistic.
I think the design stems from CCP's Icelandic/Scandinavian orientation. Most Scandinavian and some European countries are socialists, especially in regards to the workplace, protecting jobs regardless of productivity and offering rewards mainly based on seniority. To some extent you see that here in America in the "old boys network" but certainly to a lesser extent than our European and Scandinavian counterparts.
Veterans would not be ahead of all players all the time in an open ended leveling-skill raising system. Obviously it would be based on an individuals participation in the virtual world. Newcomers who are more active will catch up and even surpass some veterans and that is fair.
Having more time to play does not equate to being better: The Grind
IMO EVE's skill system is actually more realistic than other level based games. You can train skills from level 1-4 in a relatively short time, basically taking you from amateur to experienced in little time, but to become a master at something requires more of a time investment. However, the difference that you get from being a master of something is generally on the order of 5% so even if have trained to level 5, you are not gaining that much benefit over someone who has a skill at level 4.
Once any player trains a skill to master they are equivalent to all other players that have trained the skill to that level. Where the veterans gain there advantage is in the number of areas that they have been able to specialize in, much akin to WoW vets haveing many different lvl 60s that and being able to switch between them as needed. It's the same in EVE but players need only change ships and fittings to change roles.
That's the best way I've heard it put. I think EVE is one of the only games I've played where skill is the most important aspect. After only playing a couple months I ran across a player that had an Interceptor, which if you know the game takes a lot of mastered skills to get, while I only had a level 2 cruiser, and I killed him because I set up my ship a little better and was more prepared. He had been playing for 2 years while I had been playing for a couple months. Don't think a scenario like that would have worked out the same way in any other MMO out there.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
One thing that I have noticedthat makes the real-time feeling skilling enhance my imersion is the fact that I don't feel like the server has turned off when I log off. In alot of the fanatasy MMORPGs I've played there has been little to make me feel like anything is truely persistant. i get the feeling that although there are other players on the game at anyone time they are really do nothing that effects me and if they didn't exsist It wouldn't matter. EVE on the other had has for me the feel of a truely persistant universe, when I log on I check to see if any alliances are gloating over killing 18 dreadnoughts and as such expect the price of minerals to rise (Made a nice bit of isk off of supply replacement minerals -- thank you Red Alliance). Because I have this feeling that the game is truely moving on when I'm not on I want my character to be constantly getting better at something.
Now I'm from the US, I don't like the mentalities of "pure socialism". And I like the EVE skill system and I hear it misrepresented by people who have never learned to look past a level number. At the time of me posting this my character has 10,652,312 skill points spread over 142 skills. That said when I'm flying a ship there are only so many skills that can have a effect on how that ship operates. A quarter of my skill points are in skills that allow me to train other skills faster so have no effect on how I perform(no you do not need these skills though they help DO not train them right away as you will ruin your experience early on) another 15% of those skills are Industrial and Research related and have no effect on flying a ship. now I have 25% of my skillpoints in the skills to fly ships but only maybe 5% of those Skill points actually effect the ship I'm flying at the moment. When all said and done I use about 15-25% of my total skills on any one ship or about 2.5million skill points. And about 75% of the Skill points that apply work for ALL ships. most of the skills that I have are at level 5 so well they aren't gettting any better, so the people in my corp are getting closer to being able to fly a ship as well as I can and some have through a little more focused skiling(I tend to be spastic and tend not to specialize very well) have better skills to fly the same ship. (Ironically as I'm writing this post there is a banner for Dark horse leveling studio... Your MMO Power leveling service... yeah remind me again why that ingame time is uber mentality makes sense again)
And Yes EVE does not allow you to respec. Whoopedy doo. Lets see most respeccs in games are kinda of silly anyway. You can reorganize your specialized skills and possibly add or remove powers. but If your a hunter can you Respec to a warrior -- NO, Blaster to Defender -- NO, In fact I haven't heard of a Single game taht allows you to swap a "class role" during a respec. The closest I've even seen to being able to do the radically modified "class role" change like EVE was SWG and there you also had to start from scratch in the new profession. EVE allows you to go from a Damage dealer to a more Healer, yes you have to train up the new skills but you don't lose your old ones. In general it has been suggested to allow players to respec but in general it has been boiled down to the fact that it would open up more room for exploiters than anything else.
As for the Lag issue... to Be honest EVE has the best some of the best handling of it and in many cases the common lag has little to no effect on gameplay. And when they do have a server issue they own up to the problem like the Database manager recently did as a result of a mistake in his DB flags. Things like that for me give EVE the boost in performance score than some of the "Flawless" mentalities of other game companies. Alot of the current Lag issues are being fixed in the new "Dragon" client coming out in the next few weeks.
And Beatnix if you actaully read the posts you'd would have noticed that the MMORPG.com editor said that they are re-reviewing ALL of the games. EVE just got put up front probably because as the one other poster pointed out we don't pay for the major expansions and p[ay-to-use expansions are the ones that MMO rags only review most times.
Originally posted by Datcyde Ok you said 15 dreads........... im not even sure if any alliance actuly EVER flew with 15 dreads in a system at once but if they did it would be happening often. Im not sure if your complainign or what but ive never seen a exploit yet but i know that people that try to flood the system with shuttles or bantams can get banned from the game.
Actually, I was in a gang consisting of about 20 dreads and 10 carriers about a month ago. There was also a support gang blockading the only route to the system with a ridiculous number of bubbles and about 100 players a couple jumps away.
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
I'd rate EO has 7/10.. uninspired elite/freelancer/starflight clone with a lot of fun technicalities that keep players busy (which is good), lots of loot and a sandbox design but not much else unfortunately.
The only thing that makes this game shine is the player community and their creativity. It's sad that the game can't be more compelling on it's own, the gameplay in EO is very poor to begin with, it has to rely on players to make the game great, which I feel is a bit of a con here.
They could have far far more interesting missions, they could have cut down on travelling time, they could have made a beautiful and compelling universe, instead of a repetitive and dull one with the same scenery. Graphics aren't all that, same backgrounds, races look very quirky. It's nothing incredible here, certainly not worth a "9/10" at any rate.
This game is alright, but it's not incredibly original or super creative overall. I guess it compensates by having a ton of loot, like Everquest, a mediocre game with a tons of loot + large community.
Originally posted by mhex I'd rate EO has 7/10.. uninspired elite/freelancer/starflight clone with a lot of fun technicalities that keep players busy (which is good), lots of loot and a sandbox design but not much else unfortunately. The only thing that makes this game shine is the player community and their creativity. It's sad that the game can't be more compelling on it's own, the gameplay in EO is very poor to begin with, it has to rely on players to make the game great, which I feel is a bit of a con here. They could have far far more interesting missions, they could have cut down on travelling time, they could have made a beautiful and compelling universe, instead of a repetitive and dull one with the same scenery. Graphics aren't all that, same backgrounds, races look very quirky. It's nothing incredible here, certainly not worth a "9/10" at any rate. This game is alright, but it's not incredibly original or super creative overall. I guess it compensates by having a ton of loot, like Everquest, a mediocre game with a tons of loot + large community.
The whole point of the game is to interact with other players, that is WHY EVE is such a good game, it gives the players the freedom to create their own content be it politics/economy or anything else they can dream up within the game mechanics. This player-created content is FAR more compelling than any of the static content the devs can code and it's what has kept me in the game for 3+ years and counting.
Any MMO is only as good as it's community, without that there is really no point in even playing them. This can be masked to a point but eventually it will come to light.
well I've started playing eve over the last 3 weeks and it's fantastic. I dont think it's a game for everyone but I think it's awesome how endless the possabilities are in game.
As for people attacking the review - a review is just a personal opinion after all. so what if it differs from other reviews (even from this site). I think it's good they are being updated.
The only thing that makes this game shine is the player community and their creativity. It's sad that the game can't be more compelling on it's own, the gameplay in EO is very poor to begin with, it has to rely on players to make the game great, which I feel is a bit of a con here.
While I do agree they need a few more missions. The thing I find lacking in most games is anything to do past a Certain point. WoW hit 60 great ain't waiting for them to add more stuff for me to do and not going to go through it again a third time... EQ, EQ2, COH/V, all had that same problem I felt that the game was completed so I quit after 6 months or so.
One of EVE's advantages is that we don't have to wait till the next devolper story arc. In fact most of the time the devolopers are trying to play catch up trying to implement true game systems for the stuff the players come up with. It means I may find a way to play even and make a name for my self that nobody else has done succesfully not following in the tracks of thousands who had to do the same quest.
dunno dude how u make the rewiew but is more that that how many game make news on game whit players ?? and news whit alliance/corps ? eve roleplay is new but that u expect from a sciñfi game ? orc and elfs ?
but also i have to say to acces all content u have to get a subscription
The whole point of the game is to interact with other players, that is WHY EVE is such a good game, it gives the players the freedom to create their own content be it politics/economy or anything else they can dream up within the game mechanics. This player-created content is FAR more compelling than any of the static content the devs can code and it's what has kept me in the game for 3+ years and counting.
Any MMO is only as good as it's community, without that there is really no point in even playing them. This can be masked to a point but eventually it will come to light.
its funny, I recently had a conversation with one of the members of a alliance that I was in a year ago. as we got to talking about old battles and our exploits and accomplishments, and the occasional running with our tails between our legs story. I realized that EVE is the only game that has that kind of experience a game with a History that you can share with players and reminisce with. That makes EVE enjoyable for me.
Originally posted by Nicoli Originally posted by MinscThe whole point of the game is to interact with other players, that is WHY EVE is such a good game, it gives the players the freedom to create their own content be it politics/economy or anything else they can dream up within the game mechanics. This player-created content is FAR more compelling than any of the static content the devs can code and it's what has kept me in the game for 3+ years and counting.
Any MMO is only as good as it's community, without that there is really no point in even playing them. This can be masked to a point but eventually it will come to light.
its funny, I recently had a conversation with one of the members of a alliance that I was in a year ago. as we got to talking about old battles and our exploits and accomplishments, and the occasional running with our tails between our legs story. I realized that EVE is the only game that has that kind of experience a game with a History that you can share with players and reminisce with. That makes EVE enjoyable for me.
It's one of those things that I consistantly harped on CCP for not doing: documenting the player's history/lore and formally integrating it into EVE's backstory. The closest things we have to formal documentation of the player's history is the territorial maps, diplomacy chart, and the 2 articles written in EON issues #3 and #4.
You could literally write a whole series of novels based on the politics and conflicts of the last 3 years. I consider it a huge mistake on CCPs part for not capturing all those moments in EVE history where the players dramatically shifted the course of its galaxy.
Originally posted by Cerrian Originally posted by Nicoli
Originally posted by MinscThe whole point of the game is to interact with other players, that is WHY EVE is such a good game, it gives the players the freedom to create their own content be it politics/economy or anything else they can dream up within the game mechanics. This player-created content is FAR more compelling than any of the static content the devs can code and it's what has kept me in the game for 3+ years and counting.
Any MMO is only as good as it's community, without that there is really no point in even playing them. This can be masked to a point but eventually it will come to light.
its funny, I recently had a conversation with one of the members of a alliance that I was in a year ago. as we got to talking about old battles and our exploits and accomplishments, and the occasional running with our tails between our legs story. I realized that EVE is the only game that has that kind of experience a game with a History that you can share with players and reminisce with. That makes EVE enjoyable for me.
It's one of those things that I consistantly harped on CCP for not doing: documenting the player's history/lore and formally integrating it into EVE's backstory. The closest things we have to formal documentation of the player's history is the territorial maps, diplomacy chart, and the 2 articles written in EON issues #3 and #4.
You could literally write a whole series of novels based on the politics and conflicts of the last 3 years. I consider it a huge mistake on CCPs part for not capturing all those moments in EVE history where the players dramatically shifted the course of its galaxy.
Yeah I see alot of wiki history articles whent the EVEwiki is released
Good review, but really didn't bring out the incredible depth of the game. As can be seen from the comments, Eve is not for everyone. I believe it is best enjoyed by the more mature, cerebral mmo player. Much of the satisfaction comes from strategy, planning and goals as well as from interaction with others be they friend or foe. I like the skill system and I believe it is perfect for these type of players as they tend to be older, have more real life responsibilities, etc. But as has been pointed out before, just because a person may have 2 years worth of skills, a new player could still defeat them in battle, swindle them, pirate them or whatever. It is this open-ended gameplay where Eve really shines. Coupled with the fact that dying is detrimental (unlike in, say WOW, where it is meaningless), this game really will not appeal to the player who just wants to jump into a spaceship and start blasting. It's kind of like Chess as opposed to the card game War.
That said, I really don't understand the trolling and flaming which is going on. If you are interested in a space based mmo, try it out with the free trial as you would with any other game you might be interested in if it gives a free trial. Be your own judge. Why get angry at a reviewer, or go crazy because someone else doesn't like a game you like? That's weird.
Eve is a nice game but I really don't like the lies said in this review. Support tickets require AGES since 2005, it takes 3weeks when you are lucky but the common waiting time is 1-2 months now! 10/10 for performance? AHAHAH, eve is the most laggy game in the world, it stucks even for 5 minutes sometimes, since I play (2005) I saw a lot of lag issues, massive troubles never solved.
Please mmorpg.com you are the best magazine online about mmorpg and you are reviewing the best MMORPG, but try to be objective next time or write "this is another eve promotion" under your review!
Whoever fears death, dies everyday. Who doesn't, dies only once.
Just the fact that you gave it a 10/10 for lag and performance takes your credibility down a few notches. There isn't an MMO on the market that doesn't have lag at one time or another.
Originally posted by BuZZKilgore Just the fact that you gave it a 10/10 for lag and performance takes your credibility down a few notches. There isn't an MMO on the market that doesn't have lag at one time or another.
True, that. However, in comparison to other MMOs EVE is virtually lag free. It seems the lag and performance rating was graded on the curve.
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by Datcyde I came back like 3 months ago and sooooooo much has changed and the game is like 7X better im so glad ccp kept my charcter so i save like 2 months.
That's great, but what specifically has changed that has made your particular experience better today than it was when you started?
If you could explain fully, and in detail in your experience before, and your experience now, as made possible by the game changes, it will better help us grasp exactly why its better to get into EVE now than at any other point.
Seems like a bit of a silly question for you to ask when the information, being a current player, is at your fingertips.... are you saying your aren't aware of this: http://www.eve-online.com/features/ ?
Now, use the first expansion as a baseline and look at the features. Pretty straightforward so far. Next, look at the following expansions, and you see what has changed. Obviously, it's a lot of changes. Now to say that the basic gameplay itself hasn't changed, I'd disagree with you there as well. Again, it should be fairly obvious that themes and the like stay the same, as are many of the methods for doing things, but the focus of many things has evolved nearly beyond recognition. Player Owned Structures for example... they have had a huge impact on how alliances operate and vie for their space, and how others have to work against those structures. Compare that to how it was when Eve started.
Now look at the Kali Features, and read up on what is coming in the future. Can you possibly say this is the same game as it was in 2003?
Originally posted by Beastage Not reading the review, since I don't need it, been playing eve for 2 years Just wanted to say that I think you guys could have waited to kali, you'll have to re review after kali anyway.
what? i can hear Beatnik59 scream from here "NOW IT'S CLEAR!!!! CCP ARE MMORPG.COM!!!! EVE: KALI IS EXACTLY THE SAME GAME THAN 5 YEARS AGO WHEN THEY RELEASED THE FIRST INFO AND SCREENS, NO NEED FOR A REVIEW"
anyway, yes, it'd be great to have a review after every expansion, not only from EVE, but from any game. come on, it's not like MMORPG.com staff have to review 10 games every week...
This is a very honost review in my opinion. To review an MMO you need to delve into a game and it's impossible to explore every corner and find what's behind every door as you run through a MMO especially EVE with the size that it is.
To figure that the game's graphic's engine hasn't had an upgrade in over 3 years and still can hold its ground is testimony to the current game system and with Kali the games going to be reciveing a very large graphic's upgrade.
As for the game not reaching it's height. Remember this game's still growing and right now holds records for the most people online at one time on one server. Also another server's in the process of going LIVE in China so yes this game's growing still. It may not reach the membership levels of say WOW but it's doing what it was designed for. Find a nitch in the MMO market and stay consistantly in that goal and to be honost I'm glad this game doesn't have that type of membership numbers.
EVE makes you have to think and sorry to say there are gamers out there that think power gaming is the way and if you can't grind up your character in a month to max level the game isn't worth it. These are the type of people we don't want to see in EVE and to be honost I like the pace that EVE sets because it allows me to really get to explore my ship and learn its potential. There's no "Game Over" button (though some will claim the Titan is once you see what it can do when the Doomsday Device goes active)
Skill points in this game means squat. It just means you have the capability to use more items but if you're not watching what you're doing even a 3 year old character could have there rear's handed to them by a character a few months old. How many MMO's can say that when putting a level 80 character with the most expensive equipment vs a level 5 with low to mid grade equipment?
ability for you to be able to see the sun though completely solid matter like planets, moons or your own ship. Some of the backgrounds, while beautiful also interfere with your ability to see which modules are active. They glow faintly green when active but against certain stellar backdrops I found myself rotating the view around to make sure my module was really off.
Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but honestly....
Do you understand the concept of a "review"? Have you ever read a movie, book, music, restaurant or play review? I'd venture to say that games are like all of the foregoing, they are like "art." Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....The review process is NOT scientific. It is simply one guys opinion. Some reviews can be a bit more "scientific" than others (cars, washing machines, even application software) but games are not appliances, everyones "purpose" for playing is different. There is no such thing as "inter-rater" reliability, niether is WRONG, just different, in fact even the same reviewer may "change his/her mind" based on factors that were more/less important in a previous review.
We are lucky when two reviews or player experiences come within some "range" of one another. The very same things I love may actually be hated, or bore the hell out of you, that's life. I find it hard to believe you play or enjoy Eve at all given what seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of "gaming" and the review process.
Most gamers (like music and movie fans) understand that they really need to "taste" it to decide for themselves, I don't really know what you think a game review should be but would love to hear it.
All of that said let me admit I'm an 11 month "fanboi" for Eve, and offer MY review:
Several posters here pointed me to Eve. The depth of the game was fascinating for months....I still "learn" new things virtually ever time I log in (daily). I quickly joined "Eve University" a learning / n00b player based corporation, and have loved it ever since.
Almost all of the features mentioned by earlier posters are what make the game great, I won't rehash. The player community is far and away the most "mature" I've ever seen. Yes team based play is important to success / survival in 0.0 space but isn't that why it is called MultiPlayer?
Personally I feel I've done 60-70% of the "things to do" after 11 months. So far my personal favorite is trading and building, but I do enjoy the PvP elements but not daily, I actually tired of the missions some time ago -- but will probably return to them sometime. I still continue to find new and interesting things to do, even if it is just to put another few million ISK in my wallet.
Comments
Eve is a good game, despite being a bit tedious at times. From my experience playing the game, the biggest complaint I've heard is about the manner of skilling up. Sure, you can raise skills while you are afk...and even train 24 hours a day easily, but a person who starts today will never have the same amount of skill points as the person who started 3 years ago.
Eve is not a game where everyone can reach a level cap within a few days. In Eve, there is no cap. Because of the game mechanics, unless the vets forget to train, they will always have more skill points than a noob. No matter how hard you work or try, you will not train at a faster rate. Raising skills is not based on how you perform in the game. This limits noobs to being specialized to be the most effective in PVP settings.
At the same time, there are diminishing returns within the skill system...the more you train a particular skill, the more time you are forced to spend on it to get the same amount of benefit. This helps to equalize things a bit between the noob and the vet.
As far as fun value - the real fun begins once players join a player-run corporation. Space is a bit lonely out on your own.
It's a pretty damn good game. CCP continues to impress me.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
and of course, you should know that the only reason you are able to catch up veterans on any other MMORPG is because they are capped at a pointless, stupid and artificial level limit. if it werent for that crappy feature veterans would be ahead on every game.
meanwhile, EVE accepts this, and decided to not have a level limit. instead there is a limit to every skill, so that you can only train to level 5. that, and the 300 different skills make it so that veterans can not be the best at everything and any new player can be the best at any single thing within 5 or 6 months, and be just as good as a 3 year old player.
i starte 1 year ago, and i am already wining a lot of money producing ships and modules, competing with 3 year vets on the same ground. at the same time i am a very good miner, and a decent mision runner and pvper. in fact, i am as good with the dominix as anybody can be. so i dont care if a veteran has 15 million skill points more than i do. when fighting on a domi nobody can have more skills than me.
I am not surprised you like the real world time based skill system and that you happen to be from Europe.
The real world time based skill system is a socialist one, as it rewards and protects veterans and doesn't emphasize merit which would be more capitalistic.
I think the design stems from CCP's Icelandic/Scandinavian orientation. Most Scandinavian and some European countries are socialists, especially in regards to the workplace, protecting jobs regardless of productivity and offering rewards mainly based on seniority. To some extent you see that here in America in the "old boys network" but certainly to a lesser extent than our European and Scandinavian counterparts.
Veterans would not be ahead of all players all the time in an open ended leveling-skill raising system. Obviously it would be based on an individuals participation in the virtual world. Newcomers who are more active will catch up and even surpass some veterans and that is fair.
Having more time to play does not equate to being better: The Grind
IMO EVE's skill system is actually more realistic than other level based games. You can train skills from level 1-4 in a relatively short time, basically taking you from amateur to experienced in little time, but to become a master at something requires more of a time investment. However, the difference that you get from being a master of something is generally on the order of 5% so even if have trained to level 5, you are not gaining that much benefit over someone who has a skill at level 4.
Once any player trains a skill to master they are equivalent to all other players that have trained the skill to that level. Where the veterans gain there advantage is in the number of areas that they have been able to specialize in, much akin to WoW vets haveing many different lvl 60s that and being able to switch between them as needed. It's the same in EVE but players need only change ships and fittings to change roles.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
One thing that I have noticedthat makes the real-time feeling skilling enhance my imersion is the fact that I don't feel like the server has turned off when I log off. In alot of the fanatasy MMORPGs I've played there has been little to make me feel like anything is truely persistant. i get the feeling that although there are other players on the game at anyone time they are really do nothing that effects me and if they didn't exsist It wouldn't matter. EVE on the other had has for me the feel of a truely persistant universe, when I log on I check to see if any alliances are gloating over killing 18 dreadnoughts and as such expect the price of minerals to rise (Made a nice bit of isk off of supply replacement minerals -- thank you Red Alliance). Because I have this feeling that the game is truely moving on when I'm not on I want my character to be constantly getting better at something.
Now I'm from the US, I don't like the mentalities of "pure socialism". And I like the EVE skill system and I hear it misrepresented by people who have never learned to look past a level number. At the time of me posting this my character has 10,652,312 skill points spread over 142 skills. That said when I'm flying a ship there are only so many skills that can have a effect on how that ship operates. A quarter of my skill points are in skills that allow me to train other skills faster so have no effect on how I perform(no you do not need these skills though they help DO not train them right away as you will ruin your experience early on) another 15% of those skills are Industrial and Research related and have no effect on flying a ship. now I have 25% of my skillpoints in the skills to fly ships but only maybe 5% of those Skill points actually effect the ship I'm flying at the moment. When all said and done I use about 15-25% of my total skills on any one ship or about 2.5million skill points. And about 75% of the Skill points that apply work for ALL ships. most of the skills that I have are at level 5 so well they aren't gettting any better, so the people in my corp are getting closer to being able to fly a ship as well as I can and some have through a little more focused skiling(I tend to be spastic and tend not to specialize very well) have better skills to fly the same ship. (Ironically as I'm writing this post there is a banner for Dark horse leveling studio... Your MMO Power leveling service... yeah remind me again why that ingame time is uber mentality makes sense again)
And Yes EVE does not allow you to respec. Whoopedy doo. Lets see most respeccs in games are kinda of silly anyway. You can reorganize your specialized skills and possibly add or remove powers. but If your a hunter can you Respec to a warrior -- NO, Blaster to Defender -- NO, In fact I haven't heard of a Single game taht allows you to swap a "class role" during a respec. The closest I've even seen to being able to do the radically modified "class role" change like EVE was SWG and there you also had to start from scratch in the new profession. EVE allows you to go from a Damage dealer to a more Healer, yes you have to train up the new skills but you don't lose your old ones. In general it has been suggested to allow players to respec but in general it has been boiled down to the fact that it would open up more room for exploiters than anything else.
As for the Lag issue... to Be honest EVE has the best some of the best handling of it and in many cases the common lag has little to no effect on gameplay. And when they do have a server issue they own up to the problem like the Database manager recently did as a result of a mistake in his DB flags. Things like that for me give EVE the boost in performance score than some of the "Flawless" mentalities of other game companies. Alot of the current Lag issues are being fixed in the new "Dragon" client coming out in the next few weeks.
And Beatnix if you actaully read the posts you'd would have noticed that the MMORPG.com editor said that they are re-reviewing ALL of the games. EVE just got put up front probably because as the one other poster pointed out we don't pay for the major expansions and p[ay-to-use expansions are the ones that MMO rags only review most times.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
I'd rate EO has 7/10.. uninspired elite/freelancer/starflight clone with a lot of fun technicalities that keep players busy (which is good), lots of loot and a sandbox design but not much else unfortunately.
The only thing that makes this game shine is the player community and their creativity. It's sad that the game can't be more compelling on it's own, the gameplay in EO is very poor to begin with, it has to rely on players to make the game great, which I feel is a bit of a con here.
They could have far far more interesting missions, they could have cut down on travelling time, they could have made a beautiful and compelling universe, instead of a repetitive and dull one with the same scenery. Graphics aren't all that, same backgrounds, races look very quirky. It's nothing incredible here, certainly not worth a "9/10" at any rate.
This game is alright, but it's not incredibly original or super creative overall. I guess it compensates by having a ton of loot, like Everquest, a mediocre game with a tons of loot + large community.
Any MMO is only as good as it's community, without that there is really no point in even playing them. This can be masked to a point but eventually it will come to light.
well I've started playing eve over the last 3 weeks and it's fantastic. I dont think it's a game for everyone but I think it's awesome how endless the possabilities are in game.
As for people attacking the review - a review is just a personal opinion after all. so what if it differs from other reviews (even from this site). I think it's good they are being updated.
One of EVE's advantages is that we don't have to wait till the next devolper story arc. In fact most of the time the devolopers are trying to play catch up trying to implement true game systems for the stuff the players come up with. It means I may find a way to play even and make a name for my self that nobody else has done succesfully not following in the tracks of thousands who had to do the same quest.
is more that that how many game make news on game whit players ??
and news whit alliance/corps ?
eve roleplay is new but that u expect from a sciñfi game ? orc and elfs ?
but also i have to say to acces all content u have to get a subscription
BestSigEver :P
Any MMO is only as good as it's community, without that there is really no point in even playing them. This can be masked to a point but eventually it will come to light.
its funny, I recently had a conversation with one of the members of a alliance that I was in a year ago. as we got to talking about old battles and our exploits and accomplishments, and the occasional running with our tails between our legs story. I realized that EVE is the only game that has that kind of experience a game with a History that you can share with players and reminisce with. That makes EVE enjoyable for me.
A very nice review overall.
I wish tho they waited till KALI 3 was released tho.
It's one of those things that I consistantly harped on CCP for not doing: documenting the player's history/lore and formally integrating it into EVE's backstory. The closest things we have to formal documentation of the player's history is the territorial maps, diplomacy chart, and the 2 articles written in EON issues #3 and #4.
You could literally write a whole series of novels based on the politics and conflicts of the last 3 years. I consider it a huge mistake on CCPs part for not capturing all those moments in EVE history where the players dramatically shifted the course of its galaxy.
its funny, I recently had a conversation with one of the members of a alliance that I was in a year ago. as we got to talking about old battles and our exploits and accomplishments, and the occasional running with our tails between our legs story. I realized that EVE is the only game that has that kind of experience a game with a History that you can share with players and reminisce with. That makes EVE enjoyable for me.
It's one of those things that I consistantly harped on CCP for not doing: documenting the player's history/lore and formally integrating it into EVE's backstory. The closest things we have to formal documentation of the player's history is the territorial maps, diplomacy chart, and the 2 articles written in EON issues #3 and #4.
You could literally write a whole series of novels based on the politics and conflicts of the last 3 years. I consider it a huge mistake on CCPs part for not capturing all those moments in EVE history where the players dramatically shifted the course of its galaxy.
Yeah I see alot of wiki history articles whent the EVEwiki is released
Good review, but really didn't bring out the incredible depth of the game. As can be seen from the comments, Eve is not for everyone. I believe it is best enjoyed by the more mature, cerebral mmo player. Much of the satisfaction comes from strategy, planning and goals as well as from interaction with others be they friend or foe. I like the skill system and I believe it is perfect for these type of players as they tend to be older, have more real life responsibilities, etc. But as has been pointed out before, just because a person may have 2 years worth of skills, a new player could still defeat them in battle, swindle them, pirate them or whatever. It is this open-ended gameplay where Eve really shines. Coupled with the fact that dying is detrimental (unlike in, say WOW, where it is meaningless), this game really will not appeal to the player who just wants to jump into a spaceship and start blasting. It's kind of like Chess as opposed to the card game War.
That said, I really don't understand the trolling and flaming which is going on. If you are interested in a space based mmo, try it out with the free trial as you would with any other game you might be interested in if it gives a free trial. Be your own judge. Why get angry at a reviewer, or go crazy because someone else doesn't like a game you like? That's weird.
Eve is a nice game but I really don't like the lies said in this review. Support tickets require AGES since 2005, it takes 3weeks when you are lucky but the common waiting time is 1-2 months now!
10/10 for performance? AHAHAH, eve is the most laggy game in the world, it stucks even for 5 minutes sometimes, since I play (2005) I saw a lot of lag issues, massive troubles never solved.
Please mmorpg.com you are the best magazine online about mmorpg and you are reviewing the best MMORPG, but try to be objective next time or write "this is another eve promotion" under your review!
Whoever fears death, dies everyday. Who doesn't, dies only once.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
That's great, but what specifically has changed that has made your particular experience better today than it was when you started?
If you could explain fully, and in detail in your experience before, and your experience now, as made possible by the game changes, it will better help us grasp exactly why its better to get into EVE now than at any other point.
Seems like a bit of a silly question for you to ask when the information, being a current player, is at your fingertips.... are you saying your aren't aware of this: http://www.eve-online.com/features/ ?
Now, use the first expansion as a baseline and look at the features. Pretty straightforward so far. Next, look at the following expansions, and you see what has changed. Obviously, it's a lot of changes. Now to say that the basic gameplay itself hasn't changed, I'd disagree with you there as well. Again, it should be fairly obvious that themes and the like stay the same, as are many of the methods for doing things, but the focus of many things has evolved nearly beyond recognition. Player Owned Structures for example... they have had a huge impact on how alliances operate and vie for their space, and how others have to work against those structures. Compare that to how it was when Eve started.
Now look at the Kali Features, and read up on what is coming in the future. Can you possibly say this is the same game as it was in 2003?
Not reading the review, since I don't need it, been playing eve for 2 years
Just wanted to say that I think you guys could have waited to kali, you'll have to re review after kali anyway.
YO YO YO
what? i can hear Beatnik59 scream from here "NOW IT'S CLEAR!!!! CCP ARE MMORPG.COM!!!! EVE: KALI IS EXACTLY THE SAME GAME THAN 5 YEARS AGO WHEN THEY RELEASED THE FIRST INFO AND SCREENS, NO NEED FOR A REVIEW"
anyway, yes, it'd be great to have a review after every expansion, not only from EVE, but from any game. come on, it's not like MMORPG.com staff have to review 10 games every week...
This is a very honost review in my opinion. To review an MMO you need to delve into a game and it's impossible to explore every corner and find what's behind every door as you run through a MMO especially EVE with the size that it is.
To figure that the game's graphic's engine hasn't had an upgrade in over 3 years and still can hold its ground is testimony to the current game system and with Kali the games going to be reciveing a very large graphic's upgrade.
As for the game not reaching it's height. Remember this game's still growing and right now holds records for the most people online at one time on one server. Also another server's in the process of going LIVE in China so yes this game's growing still. It may not reach the membership levels of say WOW but it's doing what it was designed for. Find a nitch in the MMO market and stay consistantly in that goal and to be honost I'm glad this game doesn't have that type of membership numbers.
EVE makes you have to think and sorry to say there are gamers out there that think power gaming is the way and if you can't grind up your character in a month to max level the game isn't worth it. These are the type of people we don't want to see in EVE and to be honost I like the pace that EVE sets because it allows me to really get to explore my ship and learn its potential. There's no "Game Over" button (though some will claim the Titan is once you see what it can do when the Doomsday Device goes active)
Skill points in this game means squat. It just means you have the capability to use more items but if you're not watching what you're doing even a 3 year old character could have there rear's handed to them by a character a few months old. How many MMO's can say that when putting a level 80 character with the most expensive equipment vs a level 5 with low to mid grade equipment?
Either way don't knock it before you try it.
matter like planets, moons or your own ship. Some of the backgrounds,
while beautiful also interfere with your ability to see which modules
are active. They glow faintly green when active but against certain
stellar backdrops I found myself rotating the view around to make sure
my module was really off.
forget to say
escape > Grapics > mark Widescreen
doo u actualy play the game before review ?
BestSigEver :P
Beatnik59,
Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but honestly....
Do you understand the concept of a "review"? Have you ever read a movie, book, music, restaurant or play review? I'd venture to say that games are like all of the foregoing, they are like "art." Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....The review process is NOT scientific. It is simply one guys opinion. Some reviews can be a bit more "scientific" than others (cars, washing machines, even application software) but games are not appliances, everyones "purpose" for playing is different. There is no such thing as "inter-rater" reliability, niether is WRONG, just different, in fact even the same reviewer may "change his/her mind" based on factors that were more/less important in a previous review.
We are lucky when two reviews or player experiences come within some "range" of one another. The very same things I love may actually be hated, or bore the hell out of you, that's life. I find it hard to believe you play or enjoy Eve at all given what seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of "gaming" and the review process.
Most gamers (like music and movie fans) understand that they really need to "taste" it to decide for themselves, I don't really know what you think a game review should be but would love to hear it.
All of that said let me admit I'm an 11 month "fanboi" for Eve, and offer MY review:
I was seeking an "economy and war" based MMORPG when I posted here last September 2005. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/52754
Several posters here pointed me to Eve. The depth of the game was fascinating for months....I still "learn" new things virtually ever time I log in (daily). I quickly joined "Eve University" a learning / n00b player based corporation, and have loved it ever since.
Almost all of the features mentioned by earlier posters are what make the game great, I won't rehash. The player community is far and away the most "mature" I've ever seen. Yes team based play is important to success / survival in 0.0 space but isn't that why it is called MultiPlayer?
Personally I feel I've done 60-70% of the "things to do" after 11 months. So far my personal favorite is trading and building, but I do enjoy the PvP elements but not daily, I actually tired of the missions some time ago -- but will probably return to them sometime. I still continue to find new and interesting things to do, even if it is just to put another few million ISK in my wallet.