Originally posted by lordtwisted What makes you think the game should cater to you, but not me? What makes you feel like you rate higher then I do?
there are already games, alot of them being catered to a more casual fanbase. how many hardcore pve games are out there? eq1? L2? other than that there isn't any.
why must every single game be catered for casual players just because they represent the majority? why cant a person that has more time to play a game than you have a game that suits their playstyle?
i understand everything you are saying, and point defiantly taken but it works both ways. casuals have games catered for them, well not totally for them but then again what mmog is?
i think their should be games for all types of players, and i don't think every single game should be catered for casuals and i think vanguard is one of those games.
I disagree. I think this game is a perfect compromise.
With my limited time, I will most likely level slowly, which is fine for me. I will be left in the dust and forgotton by most of the people that start at the same time as I do. But that suits me just fine, I meet more people that way.
With your large quantity of time to spend..go do your damn homework! just kidding, that was the dad in me. With your large portion of time to play, you can level fast, make your way up the ladder faster, and do the raids. There is raid content, there is uber equipment that will fit for raid style rewards.
But! the majority of play will be groups. I don't see a bad area here. I love grouping, just don't have as much oppertunity as a lot of people.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that if you're a casual player, you shouldn't play Vanguard. But should you chose to do so, you should know that you are not the main audience, hence your conscerns willl not be of those resolved at the blink of an eye.
Lets face it. If you play a MMORPG you play along side thousands of other players. If you're a casual player you may be online 1-2 hours at the time or play once a week. A thriving online comunity never sleeps same as the real world. In the real world someone who is only available a small percentage of the time, don't get the chance to shape his / her surrounding as much as someone whos spends all his / her time influencing them. Demanding to have a say in every descision made but not being willing to make an effort to make things work is just a sad delusion.
Vanguard has (on paper at least) aspects that can cater to the casual player as well as aspets that cater to the hard core gamer. And lets face it, it's the hardcore gamer who helps build the community, not the casual player who logs in every once in a while to be entertained for a few hours. It's just a bonus that Vanguard sees that there are a player base who value real life above virtual reality but still likes the entertainment a game like vanguard can supply.
It's only natural that a MMORPG will cater more to the hard core gamers due to the fact that this player base are the ones who makes the world come alive. Imagine a world where you play with 10 thousand others you all play an average of 1 hour a day split across 24 hours. at any given time there are roughly 420 players online. You have one hour to find a group, go adventuring and maybe even establish a community feeling only to ever see the same people maybe once a week. That will not make the game work in the long run.
Casual players can easily exist in games like vanguard, it may take them longer real time to level their charater(s), they may not contribute as much to the 'here and now' community, and they might not be able to raid - but given they aren't complete social rejects getting into a guild and having friends to party with for minor groups might not be all that difficult.
and I agree and disagree with your comment on a server of 420 people online at a time won't work.
For a game with this much land, no, it won't work. But My first MMORPG had a server max of 300-400 players. It was the tightest community I have ever seen. You knew everyone in the game after awhile, and it made it more fun, you knew who to protect, and who to kill on sight.
On a game area this large with only 400 people, you would rarely see anyone. For exsample log into EQ and play in the faydwar zones....you won't see another soul on most servers.
Originally posted by MX13 There is one clear reality the people complaining about Raiding don't get: Who says there isn't similar or BETTER Non-Raid Loot? It's simple: 20% of the End Game Loot will be attached to Raiding... ok, that means that 80% of the End Game Loot is NOT Raid related... so, considering there are over 40k items in the game, and a HUGE number of variations of those items, how many End Game items to Loot will there be? Thousands of different Variations is my guess, but lets consider this... Does anyone really think that there will be one Uber Helemt in this game, and you can only get it by Raiding? Come on, there will be HUNDREDS of Helms, and who's to say the non-Raid ones won't be better? The funniest fact is this: If Raiding End Game Loot is about 20% of all End Game Loot, who really thinks they can get it all, or even the other 80%? Please, a gamer will be lucky to see 1% of this Loot, and Hardcore Gamers won't see much more... For example, look at Mando Armor in SWG... it's been there for almost 2 years, but how many Hardcore Gamers have/had it? Not many, but it was there the whole time. Was that unbalancing? No, because there was other Great Armor out there, it was just different... Just because it's Raid Loot, doesn't mean it will be better than the non-Raid Loot, and Brad himself has said that...
You know what, Blizzard also said that Raid loot wont be better than other loot and look now ? ah thought so I seriously dont give a shit anymore what devs telling me, time will tell.
I just dont want to be forced to raid, group or even solo to get the best loot. Give players the options so they can advance in the game like they want, you want to raid to get your loot ? fine go raid, you want just to do 5-10 man instances fine go and have fun with it, you want just to craft your items ? fine do it. For example WoW just has no options at all, RAID OR DIE seriously this is bs. Sure doesnt matter which path you choose it always should take same effort and be equally time consuming BUT GODDAMN GIVE PLAYERS FUCKIN OPTIONS IN THE DAMN GAME WE PAYING FOR EVERY MONTH.
I just dont get it why companies always forcing you to one gamestyle and that in a game you pay every month for...
I really wish and hope Vanguard wont make this mistake cause I just know I never ever will buy me again a MMORPG which forces me into one role like Raid or Die ...
Originally posted by lordtwisted I disagree. I think this game is a perfect compromise. With my limited time, I will most likely level slowly, which is fine for me. I will be left in the dust and forgotton by most of the people that start at the same time as I do. But that suits me just fine, I meet more people that way. With your large quantity of time to spend..go do your damn homework! just kidding, that was the dad in me. With your large portion of time to play, you can level fast, make your way up the ladder faster, and do the raids. There is raid content, there is uber equipment that will fit for raid style rewards. But! the majority of play will be groups. I don't see a bad area here. I love grouping, just don't have as much oppertunity as a lot of people.
what is it that you disagree with? the majority of the content will be focused on grouping witch is defiantly not casual friendly (casual meaning 10 hrs per week or less or 1-2 hours per night), so in that respect no...i don't think it will be a perfect compromise.
yeah you may be happy with it and thats great, but there will be alot of content you will be missing and alot of people will not like that.
if you are a casual player not only will you not be able to raid you wont be able to group either, at least that is the way it seems from reading about it.
i mean if you can deal with just soloing or maybe finding a way to play a little longer on the weekends or something, so you can have time to group on the weekends then ya it could be a compromise.
BTW just because i have more time to play than you do doesn't make me a kid, i have a son of my own i just enjoy playing games more than watching TV lol...i never watch TV, well not alot at least.
Originally posted by lordtwisted If solo players, or casual players are the minority, then why did EQ2 bust out tons of last minute solo content right after release?
who's post are you referring to? might help if you quote the person you are responding to. because if your talking to me, i never said that casuals are the minority i said they are the majority...and if you are talking to me, put down the crack pipe and slowly walk away.
Originally posted by lordtwisted I disagree. I think this game is a perfect compromise. With my limited time, I will most likely level slowly, which is fine for me. I will be left in the dust and forgotton by most of the people that start at the same time as I do. But that suits me just fine, I meet more people that way. With your large quantity of time to spend..go do your damn homework! just kidding, that was the dad in me. With your large portion of time to play, you can level fast, make your way up the ladder faster, and do the raids. There is raid content, there is uber equipment that will fit for raid style rewards. But! the majority of play will be groups. I don't see a bad area here. I love grouping, just don't have as much oppertunity as a lot of people.
what is it that you disagree with? the majority of the content will be focused on grouping witch is defiantly not casual friendly (casual meaning 10 hrs per week or less or 1-2 hours per night), so in that respect no...i don't think it will be a perfect compromise.
yeah you may be happy with it and thats great, but there will be alot of content you will be missing and alot of people will not like that.
if you are a casual player not only will you not be able to raid you wont be able to group either, at least that is the way it seems from reading about it.
i mean if you can deal with just soloing or maybe finding a way to play a little longer on the weekends or something, so you can have time to group on the weekends then ya it could be a compromise.
BTW just because i have more time to play than you do doesn't make me a kid, i have a son of my own i just enjoy playing games more than watching TV lol...i never watch TV, well not alot at least.
I am confident that there will be plenty of content for me to work with in my short sessions. When I have a night where I get more time, or a weekend free of chores, and errands.
I will be able to catch up on some of that content I am missing.
I also watch very little TV...unless those damn CSI shows are on, then I am stuck. But I have a TV next to the computer.
When I am enjoying a game I usually find a little extra time here and there to fit things in.
I think us with limited time will find a place in the game. I am sure there are a lot of us.
Heck, I have a pretty nice 69 firebird sitting in the driveway, yet the motor is in my shop...so my "free time" untill the game comes out is dedicated to finishing the motor so I can get it back together. If I take too long and the game comes out that car might be sitting for another couple years!
Originally posted by Aalandriel I wouldn't go as far as to say that if you're a casual player, you shouldn't play Vanguard. But should you chose to do so, you should know that you are not the main audience, hence your conscerns willl not be of those resolved at the blink of an eye.
Lets face it. If you play a MMORPG you play along side thousands of other players. If you're a casual player you may be online 1-2 hours at the time or play once a week. A thriving online comunity never sleeps same as the real world. In the real world someone who is only available a small percentage of the time, don't get the chance to shape his / her surrounding as much as someone whos spends all his / her time influencing them. Demanding to have a say in every descision made but not being willing to make an effort to make things work is just a sad delusion.
Vanguard has (on paper at least) aspects that can cater to the casual player as well as aspets that cater to the hard core gamer. And lets face it, it's the hardcore gamer who helps build the community, not the casual player who logs in every once in a while to be entertained for a few hours. It's just a bonus that Vanguard sees that there are a player base who value real life above virtual reality but still likes the entertainment a game like vanguard can supply.
It's only natural that a MMORPG will cater more to the hard core gamers due to the fact that this player base are the ones who makes the world come alive. Imagine a world where you play with 10 thousand others you all play an average of 1 hour a day split across 24 hours. at any given time there are roughly 420 players online. You have one hour to find a group, go adventuring and maybe even establish a community feeling only to ever see the same people maybe once a week. That will not make the game work in the long run.
Casual players can easily exist in games like vanguard, it may take them longer real time to level their charater(s), they may not contribute as much to the 'here and now' community, and they might not be able to raid - but given they aren't complete social rejects getting into a guild and having friends to party with for minor groups might not be all that difficult.
I was replying to this post. He is trying to say those that spend more time in the game are the ones that have more influence on that game.
I was trying to correct him by saying, the people who spend the most money are the ones that influnece the developers.
If I play 2 hours a day, and you play 12 hours a day, who is spending the most money? no one we are paying the same.
Look up stats and you will see that the average MMORPG player is something like 22 to 38, somewhere in that area, I'll find it if I can.
The average 22-38 year olds are working, married, and have children. So therefore don't have 12 hours a day to play. And if this is the majority of the player base. Then who is spending the money? the people with the 10-20 hours a week, not the 40 hour a week players.
Originally posted by lordtwisted so, you feel the game should cater to you, but I shouldn't even be a concern to the developers? What makes you think you rate higher then I do?
I don't feel sweetheart.............the game has been designed for non casual gamers. It is the casual who is coming in this board harrassing the developers and the core players, because they feel that the game has to be changed in order to accomodate their preferences, it is not the other way round.
The only people here who feel they deserve more than others are people like you, who thinks that every game who hit the shelves has to cater for casual player.
The maket is already flooded of games for casual player, WOW, EQ2, DDO, GW, and in the future AoC, Warhammer and Gods and Heroes. This game has not been designed for Casual for exactly that reason, because there are already enough around, we don't need another one.
So from now on, everything you will discuss you should keep in mind that this game is not for casual, and discuss around that, and stop trying to change the core of the game because Sigil won't change it. But most of all stop thinking that you deserve more than others and the game should be changed to accomodate your liking.
And for all the people who is saying that because this game is not for casual, it will have a restricted player base...........don't make me laugh. I played almost every major MMORPG since 1999, and I can assure you that there are a good portion of players who plays so called "casual games" for more than 40 hours a week, so believe me Vanguard won't be short of people playing, trust me.
If you have such a busy life, I suggest you to spend more time with your family and bring your kids to play football instead of wasting your time with MMORPGs or posting pointless posts in this forum.
a quote from Brad McQuiad , You can read the full article on my post of "Tons of Vanguard goodnes"
our primary audience is still the core gamer and we won’t make decisions that hurt what makes it attractive to our core audience. But there is a middle-ground – we can and are making a game where solo/casual, core, and hard core/raid gamers can co-exist. So while Vanguard is by no means niche, it also isn’t going to sacrifice challenge and the feeling of accomplishment that many players crave in order to reach the ‘mainstream’; -- we remain confident that Vanguard will attract all different types of players and will arguably be mainstream
And unless your a hot 20-35 year old female, my grand mother, or my piano teacher, don't call me sweetheart.
And in every post I made, I made sure to add in, that I am happy with everything Sigil has said. So what have I asked them to change?
Originally posted by lordtwisted a quote from Brad McQuiad , You can read the full article on my post of "Tons of Vanguard goodnes" our primary audience is still the core gamer and we won’t make decisions that hurt what makes it attractive to our core audience. But there is a middle-ground – we can and are making a game where solo/casual, core, and hard core/raid gamers can co-exist. So while Vanguard is by no means niche, it also isn’t going to sacrifice challenge and the feeling of accomplishment that many players crave in order to reach the ‘mainstream’; -- we remain confident that Vanguard will attract all different types of players and will arguably be mainstream And unless your a hot 20-35 year old female, my grand mother, or my piano teacher, don't call me sweetheart. And in every post I made, I made sure to add in, that I am happy with everything Sigil has said. So what have I asked them to change?
Quoting Brad, doesn't make any difference to me. He is not my Lord and certainly I use my brain to make up my mind, I don't trust every single word developers says.
Brad is talking with marketing in mind, obviously he is milking the truth. Soe obviously didn't like the way he had been promoting Vanguard as a "core" game, and they wanted to make sure to sell the box to casual as well, even if they won't pay for the subscription afterwards (and that's why I was pissed off when SOE became Vanguard pubblisher, because they are ttoo money oriented).
But all the hints are there, doesn't take a genious to understand what kind of game Vanguard will be. Brad made EQ and the original EQ2 (before being nerfed by SoE). Both games required a decent amount of time to level and to achieve things. Plus I am following this game since 2003 and all the informations I gathered throughout this time is that Vanguard is not going to be for Casual, you can bet on it.
This is Brad's style, and he will always make games like this (thank God for that).
Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by lordtwisted a quote from Brad McQuiad , You can read the full article on my post of "Tons of Vanguard goodnes" our primary audience is still the core gamer and we won’t make decisions that hurt what makes it attractive to our core audience. But there is a middle-ground – we can and are making a game where solo/casual, core, and hard core/raid gamers can co-exist. So while Vanguard is by no means niche, it also isn’t going to sacrifice challenge and the feeling of accomplishment that many players crave in order to reach the ‘mainstream’; -- we remain confident that Vanguard will attract all different types of players and will arguably be mainstream And unless your a hot 20-35 year old female, my grand mother, or my piano teacher, don't call me sweetheart. And in every post I made, I made sure to add in, that I am happy with everything Sigil has said. So what have I asked them to change?
Quoting Brad, doesn't make any difference to me. He is not my Lord and certainly I use my brain to make up my mind, I don't trust every single word developers says.
Brad is talking with marketing in mind, obviously he is milking the truth. Soe obviously didn't like the way he had been promoting Vanguard as a "core" game, and they wanted to make sure to sell the box to casual as well, even if they won't pay for the subscription afterwards (and that's why I was pissed off when SOE became Vanguard pubblisher, because they are ttoo money oriented).
But all the hints are there, doesn't take a genious to understand what kind of game Vanguard will be. Brad made EQ and the original EQ2 (before being nerfed by SoE). Both games required a decent amount of time to level and to achieve things. Plus I am following this game since 2003 and all the informations I gathered throughout this time is that Vanguard is not going to be for Casual, you can bet on it.
This is Brad's style, and he will always make games like this (thank God for that).
Even as a "casual" player I maxed in EQ before I left, came back and leveled a little more when the cap was raised. So tell me how it is not for casual players?
And while Brad may not be your lord, he is the developer. And I am sure he knows more about his game then you do.
On the Vanguard forms he even posted about people on MMORPG.com makeing comments about his game, like they even know anything about the game, he basically mocked post like yours, that post like what they say is fact, when they don't have a clue.
You have been following this game since 2003? Then you have seen the many changes that they have made already. Then you know that it's in beta 3 right now, and tons of changes have been made to the game, and are still being made to the game.
You comment that you use your brainto make up your mind? Make up your mind about what? That Vanguard will be the way that you want? because you want it that way?
You don't trust in what the developers say? What kind of way is that to live? they are not politicions, or catholic preist, they have no need to earn your trust.
Doesn't take a genius to understand? You mean it doesn't take a genius to jump to assumptions about a game they have only read little tid bits about?
Originally posted by lordtwisted And while Brad may not be your lord, he is the developer. And I am sure he knows more about his game then you do.
I think you are very naive mate. The more you post, the more I think you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
How old are you? You don't look like you have lot of life experience mate. If you believe everything people says, you only get kick in your arse in your life.
Of course you need to listen to what devs says, but you need to make your mind from other sources as well. You need also to understand that Sigil and Soe needs to make money out of it, therefore they tells you whatever you want to hear in order to sell the game.
Corpse run, no insta travel, no instances (= more camping), slow leveling, are all signals to me that this is not a game for people who play 1-2 hours a day, doesn't take a genious to figure it out, certainly anything Brad says ain't gonna change those facts, does it? It only works for people like you who havn't a clue what the game is all about, and will be tricked to buy it.
Again this game is not for casual players, change the record pls, you are getting repetitive.
I am a bit older then you, and trust me I know people lie.
You want to talk about experience with developers lieing! Lets talk two years of customer service for a developer. Lets talk 1 year of game testing for that same developer before that. Lets talk over 15 games beta tested to date. And 17 years of online gaming experience.
Trust me, I know how the system works, trust me I have dealt with Sony personally <but on the PS2 end> and I have seen what they are about.
None of it suprises me, but I am not going to make post like the OP did about how there is no support for raid group, when they have not played the game, and obviously has not read much.
I am not going to reply to other people telling them, they are casual players, they shouldn't even play it. I am a casual player and I will play it, and I will most likely have a lot of fun with it, for some of us, it's not about uber equipment, and killing the big bosses, it's not a race to the level cap, for some of us, it's about exploreing a new land, it's about adventure, some of us enjoy sitting back, drinking a beer and crafting boats to sale, etc...
Hell the stunt that was pulled with the CGM beta key give away was enough to tick me off, and I don't feel anyone has still honestly explained what had happened there.
But have listened to Brad's messages from way back when he built EQ and I think I can read Brad fairly well, heck half the comments I have seen him make lately, I saw comming a mile away.
There isn't a game I have found that I can not be successful in as of yet, atleast successful enough to satisfy me.
Even if Brad said this game is going to be for hardcore power leveling 18 hour a day type players, I would most likely buy it, and see how well I can fit my schedule to it.
Originally posted by lordtwisted I am a bit older then you, and trust me I know people lie.
No you are not, and I don't think you know how business work when money is involved. None of it suprises me, but I am not going to make post like the OP did about how there is no support for raid group, when they have not played the game, and obviously has not read much.
I read more than you since I am following this game since 2003, I know what I am talking about, while you are just pulling facts out of yours arse just to look wise and smart. I am not going to reply to other people telling them, they are casual players, they shouldn't even play it. I am a casual player and I will play it, and I will most likely have a lot of fun with it, for some of us, it's not about uber equipment, and killing the big bosses, it's not a race to the level cap, for some of us, it's about exploreing a new land, it's about adventure, some of us enjoy sitting back, drinking a beer and crafting boats to sale, etc...
The point of the OP is that Solo people should not say that this game is for raiders, because raiders can say the opposite, although they don't. Read again the OP to have a clue.
Also no one is telling that if you are a casual gamer you can't play this game. What I am saying is: play and don't complain. This game wasn't designed for casual, but if you wanna play, take it as it is and stop moaning about the non casual friendlieness. Hell the stunt that was pulled with the CGM beta key give away was enough to tick me off, and I don't feel anyone has still honestly explained what had happened there.
I tell you what happened. Marketing strategy. That's what I am trying to explain to you and you don't seems to grasp. Even if Brad said this game is going to be for hardcore power leveling 18 hour a day type players, I would most likely buy it, and see how well I can fit my schedule to it.
Good for you, as long you know what you are buying there is nothing wrong. Important thing is that you don't get disappointed afterwards because it s not what you expected, or because Brad told you that this game was for you........
Originally posted by lordtwisted I think you are very naive mate. The more you post, the more I think you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
No, I think the more I post, the more you should be realizing, that I have my own mind, and I will make up my own mind. Not let you make it for me. The more you post,the more I think you didn't read the OP. Or at least you didn't read it with the right spirit. The OP was against people complaing about the fact that this game was only for raiders, which isn't true, and I explained the reasons why.
Originally posted by sebbonx Originally posted by Zvorak Originally posted by lordtwisted
So, we all must suffer because you won't make a sacrifice like the rest of us have. You simply don't want to develop your character and your whinning because other have made the choice..?
When you dedicate 4 hours of every nite to something... other things have to give. Whatever that cause is. You cannot goto a Gym and demand that you look as fit as all the people who send 20 hours a week there because you really don't have time to work out....! LAZY..!
-Zvorak
Bad analogy, working out more then an hour or two a day does not give you superior results. It is over-training and actually impedes progress. Arnold may have done it that way but Dorian Yates came in at 300 pounds in around 1990 and blew everyone away. He got that way by intensity, not long hours. Raiders are also not devoting 20 hours a week, they are devoting unhealthy amounts of time and believe me, I can link some times played (and have) proving this.
The problem has been raiders being awarded gear 400% better then groups and dominating group play with raid gear and groups no longer accepting groupers because new expansions required raid gear for group content. Or it rewarded raiders so unfairly (esp tank classes) to the point group characters just sat "lfg" for hours on end because they couldn't earn experience nearly as fast in group play and thats what players demanded even if designers didn't mean for that to happen. Then the devs responded with "then tank classes are not for you, start over", so drop a character you love with 100 days+ played because the devs are to lazy to fix the problem>? Better fix, player finds a new game!
Seriously, your argueing technique and/or symantics and not the issue at hand. Your post is illogical at best.
Point is: That MMORPG's are like EVERYTHING else in this world. The more you put in, the more you get out. ( disclamer; for those who are idoits: There is a slight cost of diminishing returns to everything in life and those thing don't neccessarily have to be pointed out by retards. Such as Chocolate is good, but 4lbs of it at once is bad...etc )
Waking up every morning and climbing a mountain for only 45 minutes... doesn't mean that over 1 week you'll reach the top. you have to PLAN, OUTFIT, and budget away a good 13 hours to get anywhere. If you do that about once a month you will have accolades.
If you cannot play more than 2 hours a day, then even before buying an MMORPG you are already aware of your limitations. If you envy or want a known item that is of raid quality, perhaps you can do what the rest of us do. Amass others of like mind and set a goal for Next month (2nd Saturday of every month) and garner support on message boards (OUTSIDE OF THE GAME) and put aside 5 hours and raid.
Raids don't just happen and many don't understand the logistics involved in a successful raid. Thus they complain about others success. I am NOT a raider I am a solo'er or at best a grouper, yet over the last 8-9 years I have been on many raids and even a Raid Leader. It's just too frustrating to coordinate and get 25+ people working as a cohesive unit. I take my hat off to those "uber guilds" that can do it on a regulair basis. But I am easily put-off by the many irnorant and lazt people who arn't satified with their own accolades only because someone, somewhere took a day off of work, missed aHockey practice or got into an arguement with his wife only to be weilding his extremely nice BreastPlate.
Originally posted by lordtwisted Originally posted by Zvorak Originally posted by lordtwisted
If raiders can put up with soloing in order to get a full set, why can't solo people can't make an effort?
Well to answer that think of it this way. Most people that solo the majority of their play time is because their play time is sporadic, or short. For exsample...
My average schedule:
6am to 7am preparing for work
7am to 6pm working
6pm to 8pm my only time to spend with my daughter, have dinner, go over her homerwork, etc...
8pm to 9:30pm usually my game time
9:30pm to 11 pm my time with my wife.
11pm to 6am trying to get sleep.
That is a casual day for me, then add in various other content, educational meetings <I have 2 to 4 a month.>
daughters Karate class is once a week.
Wifes bowling night
My reef club meetings
My own homework
anyways, I'm sure you get the idea. Peoples lives usually consist of more then the game. We play as much as we possibly can, and while that manages time to get some good groups going, there is no way some of us can spend, 5 or 6 hours putting tof=gether and engageing in a raid.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely satisfied with what Vanguard has made us assume about the game. I don't need uber equipment, I can make up for the lack of equipment with my uber skills!
I was just answering why solo player can't raid, while raid players can solo.
So, we all must suffer because you won't make a sacrifice like the rest of us have. You simply don't want to develop your character and your whinning because other have made the choice..?
When you dedicate 4 hours of every nite to something... other things have to give. Whatever that cause is. You cannot goto a Gym and demand that you look as fit as all the people who send 20 hours a week there because you really don't have time to work out....! LAZY..!
-Zvorak
So I am supposed to sacrafice what? Job, family? lol, I make enough sacrafice by playing a game with the likes of you.
What makes you think the game should cater to you, but not me? What makes you feel like you rate higher then I do?
LOL... i guess you didn't get the point.
Nobody says you can't play Vangaurd, EQ, EQ2, WoW..etc. You can all you want as much as you want however you want. Thats the great thing about these games. just don't complain about what other have and you don't because you choose not to play more or do more.
You want, want, want.... but I hear nothing about you making it happen. Perhaps a time managment class would be a better waste of your money..? Like don't play MMORPG's Mon-Thurs and mow the lawn, wash the car and shedule your classes..etc and those 8 hours you would've racked up in 4 days playing and grab a pot of coffee and play all night (8hours)..?? See thats the sacrifice many of us make to be able to attempt a raid.
Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by lordtwisted I am a bit older then you, and trust me I know people lie.
No you are not, and I don't think you know how business work when money is involved. According to your user info, your 28. Yes I am then older then you. By a few years at that. None of it suprises me, but I am not going to make post like the OP did about how there is no support for raid group, when they have not played the game, and obviously has not read much.
I read more than you since I am following this game since 2003, I know what I am talking about, while you are just pulling facts out of yours arse just to look wise and smart. And you assume you have been following this game longer then me? How can you justify this assumption? because you have a diffrent opinion on the game then I do? Because I am more optimistic then you? I am not going to reply to other people telling them, they are casual players, they shouldn't even play it. I am a casual player and I will play it, and I will most likely have a lot of fun with it, for some of us, it's not about uber equipment, and killing the big bosses, it's not a race to the level cap, for some of us, it's about exploreing a new land, it's about adventure, some of us enjoy sitting back, drinking a beer and crafting boats to sale, etc...
The point of the OP is that Solo people should not say that this game is for raiders, because raiders can say the opposite, although they don't. Read again the OP to have a clue.
Also no one is telling that if you are a casual gamer you can't play this game. What I am saying is: play and don't complain. This game wasn't designed for casual, but if you wanna play, take it as it is and stop moaning about the non casual friendlieness. Have you seen me write one single complain about this game? A poster asked if raiders can solo, why can't solo people raid, I pointed out because they don't have the same time to sink into the game. Wasn't a complaint, was a fact. Hell the stunt that was pulled with the CGM beta key give away was enough to tick me off, and I don't feel anyone has still honestly explained what had happened there.
I tell you what happened. Marketing strategy. That's what I am trying to explain to you and you don't seems to grasp. As much discontent it caused among the Vanguard forums. I highly doubt any company is that lame. I think it was more of a minor marketing attempt gone wrong, and Sigil got partly burned for it. Even if Brad said this game is going to be for hardcore power leveling 18 hour a day type players, I would most likely buy it, and see how well I can fit my schedule to it.
Good for you, as long you know what you are buying there is nothing wrong. Important thing is that you don't get disappointed afterwards because it s not what you expected, or because Brad told you that this game was for you........
Have you seen me write one single complain about this game? A poster asked if raiders can solo, why can't solo people raid, I pointed out because they don't have the same time to sink into the game. Wasn't a complaint, was a fact.
You didn't complaint about the game maybe, BUT you keep posting things out of context because you think that Casual means Solo, and you still don't get it.
From your second post, the question you answered was:
"If raiders can put up with soloing in order to get a full set, why can't solo people make an effort to raid?"
Your answer in short was:
"Because solo people don't have time, while raiders can solo because they have time"
You were totally off topic with your post, while also trying to look smart. And that's where all this issue started from.
Solo doesn't mean Casual, the people who Solo in games like Vanguard dedicate as much time to the game as raiders do, and if you had played as many games as I did, you should know. Just the fact that you can't make this simple distinction, confirm that you don't have lots of experience with this kind of games, therefore you keep pulling facts out of your arse hoping that you look confident enough. Once again, the issue is Solo vs Raiders NOT Casual vs Raiders.
All your posts are based on the wrong assumption that Solo=Casual, and you keep defending your right to play the game as a casual player, because you felt attacked. Problem is that in the OP I wasn't talking about Casual players but I was talking about Solo players who have as much time as the Raiders but cannot be arsed to raid 20% of their time, while raiders don't complaint about having to dedicate 20% of their time to solo. If you are not in the "NON casual solo player" category, you can get out of the discussion because the OP wasn't aimed to you.
In the end, you just wanted to look smart with your answer, but you forgot to make sure to understand what the thread was all about, making a fool of yourself in the process. Gratz!
Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by lordtwisted
Have you seen me write one single complain about this game? A poster asked if raiders can solo, why can't solo people raid, I pointed out because they don't have the same time to sink into the game. Wasn't a complaint, was a fact.
You didn't complaint about the game maybe, BUT you keep posting things out of context because you think that Casual means Solo, and you still don't get it.
From your second post, the question you answered was:
"If raiders can put up with soloing in order to get a full set, why can't solo people make an effort to raid?"
Your answer in short was:
"Because solo people don't have time, while raiders can solo because they have time"
You were totally off topic with your post, while also trying to look smart. And that's where all this issue started from.
Solo doesn't mean Casual, the people who Solo in games like Vanguard dedicate as much time to the game as raiders do, and if you had played as many games as I did, you should know. Just the fact that you can't make this simple distinction, confirm that you don't have lots of experience with this kind of games, therefore you keep pulling facts out of your arse hoping that you look confident enough. Once again, the issue is Solo vs Raiders NOT Casual vs Raiders.
All your posts are based on the wrong assumption that Solo=Casual, and you keep defending your right to play the game as a casual player, because you felt attacked. Problem is that in the OP I wasn't talking about Casual players but I was talking about Solo players who have as much time as the Raiders but cannot be arsed to raid 20% of their time, while raiders don't complaint about having to dedicate 20% of their time to solo. If you are not in the "NON casual solo player" category, you can get out of the discussion because the OP wasn't aimed to you.
In the end, you just wanted to look smart with your answer, but you forgot to make sure to understand what the thread was all about, making a fool of yourself in the process. Gratz!
What was your first MMO? How many have you actually worked with the developers on directly?
How many game companies have you worked for?
You keep posting that you are smarter then me, that you have more experience then me? You know nothing about me short of what I have posted here.
Stop making assumptions, and start posting facts and maybe I will listen. Stop posting your personal opinions, and you defination of the game structures, and maybe others will listen.
Comments
there are already games, alot of them being catered to a more casual fanbase. how many hardcore pve games are out there? eq1? L2? other than that there isn't any.
why must every single game be catered for casual players just because they represent the majority? why cant a person that has more time to play a game than you have a game that suits their playstyle?
i understand everything you are saying, and point defiantly taken but it works both ways. casuals have games catered for them, well not totally for them but then again what mmog is?
i think their should be games for all types of players, and i don't think every single game should be catered for casuals and i think vanguard is one of those games.
I disagree. I think this game is a perfect compromise.
With my limited time, I will most likely level slowly, which is fine for me. I will be left in the dust and forgotton by most of the people that start at the same time as I do. But that suits me just fine, I meet more people that way.
With your large quantity of time to spend..go do your damn homework! just kidding, that was the dad in me. With your large portion of time to play, you can level fast, make your way up the ladder faster, and do the raids. There is raid content, there is uber equipment that will fit for raid style rewards.
But! the majority of play will be groups. I don't see a bad area here. I love grouping, just don't have as much oppertunity as a lot of people.
Not so nice guy!
Lets face it. If you play a MMORPG you play along side thousands of other players. If you're a casual player you may be online 1-2 hours at the time or play once a week. A thriving online comunity never sleeps same as the real world. In the real world someone who is only available a small percentage of the time, don't get the chance to shape his / her surrounding as much as someone whos spends all his / her time influencing them. Demanding to have a say in every descision made but not being willing to make an effort to make things work is just a sad delusion.
Vanguard has (on paper at least) aspects that can cater to the casual player as well as aspets that cater to the hard core gamer. And lets face it, it's the hardcore gamer who helps build the community, not the casual player who logs in every once in a while to be entertained for a few hours. It's just a bonus that Vanguard sees that there are a player base who value real life above virtual reality but still likes the entertainment a game like vanguard can supply.
It's only natural that a MMORPG will cater more to the hard core gamers due to the fact that this player base are the ones who makes the world come alive. Imagine a world where you play with 10 thousand others you all play an average of 1 hour a day split across 24 hours. at any given time there are roughly 420 players online. You have one hour to find a group, go adventuring and maybe even establish a community feeling only to ever see the same people maybe once a week. That will not make the game work in the long run.
Casual players can easily exist in games like vanguard, it may take them longer real time to level their charater(s), they may not contribute as much to the 'here and now' community, and they might not be able to raid - but given they aren't complete social rejects getting into a guild and having friends to party with for minor groups might not be all that difficult.
Not so nice guy!
and I agree and disagree with your comment on a server of 420 people online at a time won't work.
For a game with this much land, no, it won't work. But My first MMORPG had a server max of 300-400 players. It was the tightest community I have ever seen. You knew everyone in the game after awhile, and it made it more fun, you knew who to protect, and who to kill on sight.
On a game area this large with only 400 people, you would rarely see anyone. For exsample log into EQ and play in the faydwar zones....you won't see another soul on most servers.
Not so nice guy!
I just dont want to be forced to raid, group or even solo to get the best loot. Give players the options so they can advance in the game like they want, you want to raid to get your loot ? fine go raid, you want just to do 5-10 man instances fine go and have fun with it, you want just to craft your items ? fine do it. For example WoW just has no options at all, RAID OR DIE seriously this is bs. Sure doesnt matter which path you choose it always should take same effort and be equally time consuming BUT GODDAMN GIVE PLAYERS FUCKIN OPTIONS IN THE DAMN GAME WE PAYING FOR EVERY MONTH.
I just dont get it why companies always forcing you to one gamestyle and that in a game you pay every month for...
I really wish and hope Vanguard wont make this mistake cause I just know I never ever will buy me again a MMORPG which forces me into one role like Raid or Die ...
yeah you may be happy with it and thats great, but there will be alot of content you will be missing and alot of people will not like that.
if you are a casual player not only will you not be able to raid you wont be able to group either, at least that is the way it seems from reading about it.
i mean if you can deal with just soloing or maybe finding a way to play a little longer on the weekends or something, so you can have time to group on the weekends then ya it could be a compromise.
BTW just because i have more time to play than you do doesn't make me a kid, i have a son of my own i just enjoy playing games more than watching TV lol...i never watch TV, well not alot at least.
yeah you may be happy with it and thats great, but there will be alot of content you will be missing and alot of people will not like that.
if you are a casual player not only will you not be able to raid you wont be able to group either, at least that is the way it seems from reading about it.
i mean if you can deal with just soloing or maybe finding a way to play a little longer on the weekends or something, so you can have time to group on the weekends then ya it could be a compromise.
BTW just because i have more time to play than you do doesn't make me a kid, i have a son of my own i just enjoy playing games more than watching TV lol...i never watch TV, well not alot at least.
I am confident that there will be plenty of content for me to work with in my short sessions. When I have a night where I get more time, or a weekend free of chores, and errands.
I will be able to catch up on some of that content I am missing.
I also watch very little TV...unless those damn CSI shows are on, then I am stuck. But I have a TV next to the computer.
When I am enjoying a game I usually find a little extra time here and there to fit things in.
I think us with limited time will find a place in the game. I am sure there are a lot of us.
Heck, I have a pretty nice 69 firebird sitting in the driveway, yet the motor is in my shop...so my "free time" untill the game comes out is dedicated to finishing the motor so I can get it back together. If I take too long and the game comes out that car might be sitting for another couple years!
Not so nice guy!
I was replying to this post. He is trying to say those that spend more time in the game are the ones that have more influence on that game.
I was trying to correct him by saying, the people who spend the most money are the ones that influnece the developers.
If I play 2 hours a day, and you play 12 hours a day, who is spending the most money? no one we are paying the same.
Look up stats and you will see that the average MMORPG player is something like 22 to 38, somewhere in that area, I'll find it if I can.
The average 22-38 year olds are working, married, and have children. So therefore don't have 12 hours a day to play. And if this is the majority of the player base. Then who is spending the money? the people with the 10-20 hours a week, not the 40 hour a week players.
Not so nice guy!
It is the casual who is coming in this board harrassing the developers and the core players, because they feel that the game has to be changed in order to accomodate their preferences, it is not the other way round.
The only people here who feel they deserve more than others are people like you, who thinks that every game who hit the shelves has to cater for casual player.
The maket is already flooded of games for casual player, WOW, EQ2, DDO, GW, and in the future AoC, Warhammer and Gods and Heroes.
This game has not been designed for Casual for exactly that reason, because there are already enough around, we don't need another one.
So from now on, everything you will discuss you should keep in mind that this game is not for casual, and discuss around that, and stop trying to change the core of the game because Sigil won't change it.
But most of all stop thinking that you deserve more than others and the game should be changed to accomodate your liking.
And for all the people who is saying that because this game is not for casual, it will have a restricted player base...........don't make me laugh.
I played almost every major MMORPG since 1999, and I can assure you that there are a good portion of players who plays so called "casual games" for more than 40 hours a week, so believe me Vanguard won't be short of people playing, trust me.
If you have such a busy life, I suggest you to spend more time with your family and bring your kids to play football instead of wasting your time with MMORPGs or posting pointless posts in this forum.
a quote from Brad McQuiad , You can read the full article on my post of "Tons of Vanguard goodnes"
our primary audience is still the core gamer and we won’t make decisions that hurt what makes it attractive to our core audience. But there is a middle-ground – we can and are making a game where solo/casual, core, and hard core/raid gamers can co-exist. So while Vanguard is by no means niche, it also isn’t going to sacrifice challenge and the feeling of accomplishment that many players crave in order to reach the ‘mainstream’; -- we remain confident that Vanguard will attract all different types of players and will arguably be mainstream
And unless your a hot 20-35 year old female, my grand mother, or my piano teacher, don't call me sweetheart.
And in every post I made, I made sure to add in, that I am happy with everything Sigil has said. So what have I asked them to change?
Not so nice guy!
Quoting Brad, doesn't make any difference to me.
He is not my Lord and certainly I use my brain to make up my mind, I don't trust every single word developers says.
Brad is talking with marketing in mind, obviously he is milking the truth.
Soe obviously didn't like the way he had been promoting Vanguard as a "core" game, and they wanted to make sure to sell the box to casual as well, even if they won't pay for the subscription afterwards (and that's why I was pissed off when SOE became Vanguard pubblisher, because they are ttoo money oriented).
But all the hints are there, doesn't take a genious to understand what kind of game Vanguard will be.
Brad made EQ and the original EQ2 (before being nerfed by SoE).
Both games required a decent amount of time to level and to achieve things.
Plus I am following this game since 2003 and all the informations I gathered throughout this time is that Vanguard is not going to be for Casual, you can bet on it.
This is Brad's style, and he will always make games like this (thank God for that).
Quoting Brad, doesn't make any difference to me.
He is not my Lord and certainly I use my brain to make up my mind, I don't trust every single word developers says.
Brad is talking with marketing in mind, obviously he is milking the truth.
Soe obviously didn't like the way he had been promoting Vanguard as a "core" game, and they wanted to make sure to sell the box to casual as well, even if they won't pay for the subscription afterwards (and that's why I was pissed off when SOE became Vanguard pubblisher, because they are ttoo money oriented).
But all the hints are there, doesn't take a genious to understand what kind of game Vanguard will be.
Brad made EQ and the original EQ2 (before being nerfed by SoE).
Both games required a decent amount of time to level and to achieve things.
Plus I am following this game since 2003 and all the informations I gathered throughout this time is that Vanguard is not going to be for Casual, you can bet on it.
This is Brad's style, and he will always make games like this (thank God for that).
Even as a "casual" player I maxed in EQ before I left, came back and leveled a little more when the cap was raised. So tell me how it is not for casual players?
And while Brad may not be your lord, he is the developer. And I am sure he knows more about his game then you do.
On the Vanguard forms he even posted about people on MMORPG.com makeing comments about his game, like they even know anything about the game, he basically mocked post like yours, that post like what they say is fact, when they don't have a clue.
You have been following this game since 2003? Then you have seen the many changes that they have made already. Then you know that it's in beta 3 right now, and tons of changes have been made to the game, and are still being made to the game.
You comment that you use your brainto make up your mind? Make up your mind about what? That Vanguard will be the way that you want? because you want it that way?
You don't trust in what the developers say? What kind of way is that to live? they are not politicions, or catholic preist, they have no need to earn your trust.
Doesn't take a genius to understand? You mean it doesn't take a genius to jump to assumptions about a game they have only read little tid bits about?
Not so nice guy!
The more you post, the more I think you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
How old are you?
You don't look like you have lot of life experience mate.
If you believe everything people says, you only get kick in your arse in your life.
Of course you need to listen to what devs says, but you need to make your mind from other sources as well.
You need also to understand that Sigil and Soe needs to make money out of it, therefore they tells you whatever you want to hear in order to sell the game.
Corpse run, no insta travel, no instances (= more camping), slow leveling, are all signals to me that this is not a game for people who play 1-2 hours a day, doesn't take a genious to figure it out, certainly anything Brad says ain't gonna change those facts, does it?
It only works for people like you who havn't a clue what the game is all about, and will be tricked to buy it.
Again this game is not for casual players, change the record pls, you are getting repetitive.
I am a bit older then you, and trust me I know people lie.
You want to talk about experience with developers lieing! Lets talk two years of customer service for a developer. Lets talk 1 year of game testing for that same developer before that. Lets talk over 15 games beta tested to date. And 17 years of online gaming experience.
Trust me, I know how the system works, trust me I have dealt with Sony personally <but on the PS2 end> and I have seen what they are about.
None of it suprises me, but I am not going to make post like the OP did about how there is no support for raid group, when they have not played the game, and obviously has not read much.
I am not going to reply to other people telling them, they are casual players, they shouldn't even play it. I am a casual player and I will play it, and I will most likely have a lot of fun with it, for some of us, it's not about uber equipment, and killing the big bosses, it's not a race to the level cap, for some of us, it's about exploreing a new land, it's about adventure, some of us enjoy sitting back, drinking a beer and crafting boats to sale, etc...
Hell the stunt that was pulled with the CGM beta key give away was enough to tick me off, and I don't feel anyone has still honestly explained what had happened there.
But have listened to Brad's messages from way back when he built EQ and I think I can read Brad fairly well, heck half the comments I have seen him make lately, I saw comming a mile away.
There isn't a game I have found that I can not be successful in as of yet, atleast successful enough to satisfy me.
Even if Brad said this game is going to be for hardcore power leveling 18 hour a day type players, I would most likely buy it, and see how well I can fit my schedule to it.
Not so nice guy!
Not so nice guy!
The more you post,the more I think you didn't read the OP.
Or at least you didn't read it with the right spirit.
The OP was against people complaing about the fact that this game was only for raiders, which isn't true, and I explained the reasons why.
Try again.
So, we all must suffer because you won't make a sacrifice like the rest of us have. You simply don't want to develop your character and your whinning because other have made the choice..?
When you dedicate 4 hours of every nite to something... other things have to give. Whatever that cause is. You cannot goto a Gym and demand that you look as fit as all the people who send 20 hours a week there because you really don't have time to work out....! LAZY..!
-Zvorak
Bad analogy, working out more then an hour or two a day does not give you superior results. It is over-training and actually impedes progress. Arnold may have done it that way but Dorian Yates came in at 300 pounds in around 1990 and blew everyone away. He got that way by intensity, not long hours. Raiders are also not devoting 20 hours a week, they are devoting unhealthy amounts of time and believe me, I can link some times played (and have) proving this.
The problem has been raiders being awarded gear 400% better then groups and dominating group play with raid gear and groups no longer accepting groupers because new expansions required raid gear for group content. Or it rewarded raiders so unfairly (esp tank classes) to the point group characters just sat "lfg" for hours on end because they couldn't earn experience nearly as fast in group play and thats what players demanded even if designers didn't mean for that to happen. Then the devs responded with "then tank classes are not for you, start over", so drop a character you love with 100 days+ played because the devs are to lazy to fix the problem>? Better fix, player finds a new game!
Seriously, your argueing technique and/or symantics and not the issue at hand. Your post is illogical at best.
Point is: That MMORPG's are like EVERYTHING else in this world. The more you put in, the more you get out. ( disclamer; for those who are idoits: There is a slight cost of diminishing returns to everything in life and those thing don't neccessarily have to be pointed out by retards. Such as Chocolate is good, but 4lbs of it at once is bad...etc )
Waking up every morning and climbing a mountain for only 45 minutes... doesn't mean that over 1 week you'll reach the top. you have to PLAN, OUTFIT, and budget away a good 13 hours to get anywhere. If you do that about once a month you will have accolades.
If you cannot play more than 2 hours a day, then even before buying an MMORPG you are already aware of your limitations. If you envy or want a known item that is of raid quality, perhaps you can do what the rest of us do. Amass others of like mind and set a goal for Next month (2nd Saturday of every month) and garner support on message boards (OUTSIDE OF THE GAME) and put aside 5 hours and raid.
Raids don't just happen and many don't understand the logistics involved in a successful raid. Thus they complain about others success. I am NOT a raider I am a solo'er or at best a grouper, yet over the last 8-9 years I have been on many raids and even a Raid Leader. It's just too frustrating to coordinate and get 25+ people working as a cohesive unit. I take my hat off to those "uber guilds" that can do it on a regulair basis. But I am easily put-off by the many irnorant and lazt people who arn't satified with their own accolades only because someone, somewhere took a day off of work, missed aHockey practice or got into an arguement with his wife only to be weilding his extremely nice BreastPlate.
Thus they sacrificed more than you...!
-Zvorak
Well to answer that think of it this way. Most people that solo the majority of their play time is because their play time is sporadic, or short. For exsample...
My average schedule:
6am to 7am preparing for work
7am to 6pm working
6pm to 8pm my only time to spend with my daughter, have dinner, go over her homerwork, etc...
8pm to 9:30pm usually my game time
9:30pm to 11 pm my time with my wife.
11pm to 6am trying to get sleep.
That is a casual day for me, then add in various other content, educational meetings <I have 2 to 4 a month.>
daughters Karate class is once a week.
Wifes bowling night
My reef club meetings
My own homework
anyways, I'm sure you get the idea. Peoples lives usually consist of more then the game. We play as much as we possibly can, and while that manages time to get some good groups going, there is no way some of us can spend, 5 or 6 hours putting tof=gether and engageing in a raid.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely satisfied with what Vanguard has made us assume about the game. I don't need uber equipment, I can make up for the lack of equipment with my uber skills!
I was just answering why solo player can't raid, while raid players can solo.
So, we all must suffer because you won't make a sacrifice like the rest of us have. You simply don't want to develop your character and your whinning because other have made the choice..?
When you dedicate 4 hours of every nite to something... other things have to give. Whatever that cause is. You cannot goto a Gym and demand that you look as fit as all the people who send 20 hours a week there because you really don't have time to work out....! LAZY..!
-Zvorak
So I am supposed to sacrafice what? Job, family? lol, I make enough sacrafice by playing a game with the likes of you.
What makes you think the game should cater to you, but not me? What makes you feel like you rate higher then I do?
LOL... i guess you didn't get the point.
Nobody says you can't play Vangaurd, EQ, EQ2, WoW..etc. You can all you want as much as you want however you want. Thats the great thing about these games. just don't complain about what other have and you don't because you choose not to play more or do more.
You want, want, want.... but I hear nothing about you making it happen. Perhaps a time managment class would be a better waste of your money..? Like don't play MMORPG's Mon-Thurs and mow the lawn, wash the car and shedule your classes..etc and those 8 hours you would've racked up in 4 days playing and grab a pot of coffee and play all night (8hours)..?? See thats the sacrifice many of us make to be able to attempt a raid.
-Zvorak
Not so nice guy!
Not so nice guy!
You didn't complaint about the game maybe, BUT you keep posting things out of context because you think that Casual means Solo, and you still don't get it.
From your second post, the question you answered was:
"If raiders can put up with soloing in order to get a full set, why can't solo people make an effort to raid?"
Your answer in short was:
"Because solo people don't have time, while raiders can solo because they have time"
You were totally off topic with your post, while also trying to look smart.
And that's where all this issue started from.
Solo doesn't mean Casual, the people who Solo in games like Vanguard dedicate as much time to the game as raiders do, and if you had played as many games as I did, you should know.
Just the fact that you can't make this simple distinction, confirm that you don't have lots of experience with this kind of games, therefore you keep pulling facts out of your arse hoping that you look confident enough.
Once again, the issue is Solo vs Raiders NOT Casual vs Raiders.
All your posts are based on the wrong assumption that Solo=Casual, and you keep defending your right to play the game as a casual player, because you felt attacked.
Problem is that in the OP I wasn't talking about Casual players but I was talking about Solo players who have as much time as the Raiders but cannot be arsed to raid 20% of their time, while raiders don't complaint about having to dedicate 20% of their time to solo.
If you are not in the "NON casual solo player" category, you can get out of the discussion because the OP wasn't aimed to you.
In the end, you just wanted to look smart with your answer, but you forgot to make sure to understand what the thread was all about, making a fool of yourself in the process.
Gratz!
You didn't complaint about the game maybe, BUT you keep posting things out of context because you think that Casual means Solo, and you still don't get it.
From your second post, the question you answered was:
"If raiders can put up with soloing in order to get a full set, why can't solo people make an effort to raid?"
Your answer in short was:
"Because solo people don't have time, while raiders can solo because they have time"
You were totally off topic with your post, while also trying to look smart.
And that's where all this issue started from.
Solo doesn't mean Casual, the people who Solo in games like Vanguard dedicate as much time to the game as raiders do, and if you had played as many games as I did, you should know.
Just the fact that you can't make this simple distinction, confirm that you don't have lots of experience with this kind of games, therefore you keep pulling facts out of your arse hoping that you look confident enough.
Once again, the issue is Solo vs Raiders NOT Casual vs Raiders.
All your posts are based on the wrong assumption that Solo=Casual, and you keep defending your right to play the game as a casual player, because you felt attacked.
Problem is that in the OP I wasn't talking about Casual players but I was talking about Solo players who have as much time as the Raiders but cannot be arsed to raid 20% of their time, while raiders don't complaint about having to dedicate 20% of their time to solo.
If you are not in the "NON casual solo player" category, you can get out of the discussion because the OP wasn't aimed to you.
In the end, you just wanted to look smart with your answer, but you forgot to make sure to understand what the thread was all about, making a fool of yourself in the process.
Gratz!
What was your first MMO? How many have you actually worked with the developers on directly?
How many game companies have you worked for?
You keep posting that you are smarter then me, that you have more experience then me? You know nothing about me short of what I have posted here.
Stop making assumptions, and start posting facts and maybe I will listen. Stop posting your personal opinions, and you defination of the game structures, and maybe others will listen.
Not so nice guy!