Originally posted by Kryogenic I read this article "World of Warcraft: Two Casual Years Later" and am really disapointed in it. For the most part, when there's an editiorial from this site, it's balanced with insights on the pros and cons of a game. This editorial, however, made me wanna puke. WoW is a good game don't get me wrong, but it's really freakin repeatative. The redundancy of running the same few instances, at end game, over and over, ad nauseum, is insane. Not to mention the whole itemization, versus player experience and skill. I'm an oldschool gamer. Back in the day, it was skill that set you apart from fellow gamers. It was skill that challenged and fueled tournaments and endless gaming sessions. Granted, it does take a minimal amount of skill to be a good WoW player, BUT that being said... The game falls flat with it's dependency on itemization. The game rewards people for mindlessly repeating the same instances over and over and over and over. Not to mention the basic startegy for almost every single instance is the same. Yeah, there are some nuances and variations, but basically the same. I played WoW in beta for a really long time before it went live so maybe I just burned out before most others. All in all, I'm just not that impressed by WoW anymore. I do remeber playing that game everyday, and I log in every once in a while for ten mintues tops. I can't seem to get into it, and I certainly don't enjoy sitting infront of my damn computer for 3-5 hours to go through an instance. I understand that the expansion will bring a change in the way honor and PvP works, new battlegrounds, higher lvl cap, 2 new races, and a new profession. When all that goes live then maybe my interest in that game will be sparked once more... but as of right now, WoW is not as great as the author of this editorial paints it out to be, at least not to me.
Back in the days it was skill that set you apart from other players? I will assume you are either talking about something else then MMORPG's, or have a wishfull memory, because an MMORPG never has taken skill, unless you are talking about PVP, where 80% depends on equipment (but hey, thats still 20% playerskill). and yes, that includes UO, don't bother bringing it up. why people even refer to that as "player-skill based" is truly beyond me.
It's not a matter of being able to post a review. I don't think anyone here is saying the writer, or any forums poster here does not have the right to voice their opinion or viewpoints on this website. I think the point is that this is a website that specializes in MMORPG's and in my opinion is the premier site to go to for the broadest selection of views and comprehensive information on how MMORPG's go over.
The point a lot of people are making, and I would have to agree, is that if your working for this website and getting front page editorials, you had better have a lot of experience in the MMO genre. Whether you agree with him or not, he simply comes off as not being experienced enough to project the level of credibility for the average person here to give a flying crap.
I've been playing games in this genre for 10 years, and I would imagine that there are a lot of other people who have a good bit of experience under their belt as well. Now imagine your in my situation, or have a good deal of dealings with this genre and industry, and some guy tells you that game XYZ is the best thing since sliced bread, and his total gaming experience is only a few games. You frankly aren't going to out much stock in his opinion. It would be like a 4 year old telling you to vote for a politcal party in real life, he simply can't be credible with his experience to warrant anyone taking him seriously. Since this site's success in my opinion is based on the fact that many of its members are so experienced, it has become the place I and many others go to for credible and solid discussions and viewpoints.
Bias has nothing to do with it because they are editorials, they are supposed to be tilted one way or the other because its a writers opinion. Do not mix up editorial with review, they are not the same thing, but regardless many feel the writer does not have enough experience to come off as someone worthy of front page articles, regardless of whether you agree with his viewpoint.
For the record, there are casual MMORPG gamers who still have high levels of experience, hell, I used to qualify for that description myself, at least untill I got some time on my hands to spend as I wished.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Come on guys, give the dude a break. Learn to read! He didn't give MMORPG's review of WoW at the two year mark with a score. The dude gave us an editorial.
Use some common sense and learn what an opinion is.
Good grief, get off the guy already. Kudos to the MMORPG management for realizing the inexperienced/casual gamers have a voice also.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Who says you need 1 year or more of ingame experience to review a game? You are "reviewing" it, not writing a complete game manual.
In my book, a month is enough to review it. Hell, even a day can give u enough experience and knowledge to review SOME aspects of the game (you dont need to get to max level in order to see that UI is not (or is) very customizable, or that graphics suck (or rock))
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
All I can say is if casual MMORPG players around the globe are willing to give me $1,350,000,000 a year annual revenue saying that my game isn't half bad, who am I to argue? No other MMORPG game out there has made more in it's lifetime than WoW made this past year. NONE. Sure, WoW might be classified as MMORPG for Dummies, but as a share holder in the companies stock, I'll take dumb over niche any day of the week.
Bottom line is, these games may be there for your enjoyment and the enjoyment of the creators, but more importantly, they are there to make money. Blizzard delivered better than anyone ever expected. EVER!
All I can say to you jealous people is.... /CRY MORE
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
It really depends on what your idea of content is. Running the same dungeon once or twice a week for over a year trying to get your stuff to drop is no more content then emptying my cats litter pan every week.
You know its bad when you can turn your exp bar into a reputation bar and grind out 48000 points of rep by collecting and turning in crab shells for 2 points each. But hey, if that's your idea of content, have at it.
Some people like to pay $15 a month too run through the same exact dungeon 2-3 times a week, every week. More power to you.
Some people like the fact that on a PvP server you get penalized for attacking towns.
Some people like the fact that the entire war between the alliance and the horde is being fought over a 1 acre stretch of woods thats instanced, a lumber mill and farm thats instanced, or a snow covered valley that is instanced.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Like I said, nobody is arguing the right of this guy to have his on views and write a review. I just think that a lot of people would argue that it does not belong on the front page of this site which specializes in MMOs, when I have seen better reviews written by more experienced community members fall by the wayside in these very forums.
yes its not my cup of tea, or a lot of others peoples cup of tea. but I don't hate the game, and I don't get why other people hate it either just don't subscribe to it and stop being annoying.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
It really depends on what your idea of content is. Running the same dungeon once or twice a week for over a year trying to get your stuff to drop is no more content then emptying my cats litter pan every week.
You know its bad when you can turn your exp bar into a reputation bar and grind out 48000 points of rep by collecting and turning in crab shells for 2 points each. But hey, if that's your idea of content, have at it.
Some people like to pay $15 a month too run through the same exact dungeon 2-3 times a week, every week. More power to you.
Some people like the fact that on a PvP server you get penalized for attacking towns.
Some people like the fact that the entire war between the alliance and the horde is being fought over a 1 acre stretch of woods thats instanced, a lumber mill and farm thats instanced, or a snow covered valley that is instanced.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Like I said, nobody is arguing the right of this guy to have his on views and write a review. I just think that a lot of people would argue that it does not belong on the front page of this site which specializes in MMOs, when I have seen better reviews written by more experienced community members fall by the wayside in these very forums.
While I think WoW is an awesome game and more than delivered on content and you don't, I respect that. The day that WoW went live there was more land, more instances, more unique quests (over 1,300 quests) not quest chains, and the best game from 1-59 ever made. PERIOD. Compared to other games, WoW runs flawless. I concede that level 60 in WoW to this day has left a lot to be desired.
I am on your band-wagon when you say that WoW's PvP is a laughable joke. There is no doubt about it. With TBC, the joke gets worse. They are forcing PvP down PvEer's throats and I think that is almost as bad as what SoE did to SWG with their NGE. Getting to 70, people will have no choice but to be forced to PvP. I believe that pvp should be kept to PvP servers. This carebear style of PvPing "when I feel like it" blows chunks. You are right, confining PvP to instances was a very bad move.
To me, Blizzard needs to have PvE servers (no pvp at all), PvE light (with the /pvp option) and then their standard PvP servers. They should not force PvEers into pvp and I feel that mistake with TBC is going to hurt them badly subscription wise.
Saying all that, just because they got PvP wrong doesn't mean that the other 95% of the game WoW is a bad game.
They delievered to the PvEers, Raiders, Casual players, and some to the PvPers. With the expansion, the PvPers are getting a lot of love. You will be getting what you asked for in WoW. A lot of their PvP is changing. Unfortunately, what you are asking for is at the expense of the PvE crowd. The PvP crowd and the PvE crowd both deserve respect and attention. Unfortunately, ever PvP "balance" issue and more PvP content is need issue has a cost. That cost is that the PvE player is getting pushed out of the game.
The problems that you and I are defining are not confined to WoW. The industry as a whole has a problem of not having enough different types of server rulesets. More importantly, all companies fail at ruleset enforcement. It can't be that hard to set flags to No PvP aspects will be on, Some PvP aspects will be on, All PvP aspects will be on and then do that for RP as well, and then RP PVP rulesets as well.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Originally posted by Paragus1 I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
See this is the key problem in the attitude of many of you, namely: if you are an experienced MMO gamer you MUST think "x" about WoW.
Nonsense. WoW does what it does brilliantly well. Do I think that the end-game in WoW is borked? Yes, I do. That, as I have written many times, is the game's principal shortcoming, and it's fair enough to point that out. But the attitude that "if you are an experienced gamer, you must think this game is a sick joke" is nonsense and elitist in the extreme.
The problems that you and I are defining are not confined to WoW. The industry as a whole has a problem of not having enough different types of server rulesets. More importantly, all companies fail at ruleset enforcement. It can't be that hard to set flags to No PvP aspects will be on, Some PvP aspects will be on, All PvP aspects will be on and then do that for RP as well, and then RP PVP rulesets as well.
I think it's because it is very hard to balance a game for both PvP and PvE. It's extremely hard to do that. Honestly I think it's very hard to design a game that caters to both playstyles as well, because they are so extremely different. Bizzard has tried to do this from the beginning, with mixed results, I think, and numerous "class reviews" and nerfings, de-nerfings and counter nerfings (which is what you get in a PvP game because everyone QQs when their class is bested by other classes in PvP).
Originally posted by havocthefirs Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Paragus1 Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight. I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward system like what DAOC had.
I'm an oldschool gamer. Back in the day, it was skill that set you apart from fellow gamers. It was skill that challenged and fueled tournaments and endless gaming sessions.
No truer words have ever been said, where has the skill gone in these MMOGs? oh wait thats right theres the RPG in there, so automatically that means that any quadraplegic with amuptated arms should be able to play.
Also as "opinions", when did they become non attackable and automatically right. an OPINION can be WRONG. if i came to the forum and said "the holocaust was a good thing" ... its would be my opinion. its still wrong and stupid.
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight. I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward system like what DAOC had.
While I agree with your comments about the PVP area's, I completely Disagree with your comment about PVP being nothing more then spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons. MMORPG pvp has always been very gear depended, WoW included, yet I think WoW's pvp requires more player skill then any other MMORPG developed so far (with the exception of Asherons call). the system needs improvement, however I feel the actual PVP is very well done.
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight. I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward system like what DAOC had.
While I agree with your comments about the PVP area's, I completely Disagree with your comment about PVP being nothing more then spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons. MMORPG pvp has always been very gear depended, WoW included, yet I think WoW's pvp requires more player skill then any other MMORPG developed so far (with the exception of Asherons call). the system needs improvement, however I feel the actual PVP is very well done.
Give me a max leveled-best shadow damage gear in the game warlock pvper and I'll show you a warlock that will beat other classes 97% of the time or more in 1 v 1 pvp. Don't try to tell people that WoW isn't gear dependent. For the record, if you have a G15 keyboard you don't even need 2 buttons to win in PvP. You can push one button and walk away from the keyboard knowing when you come back you will have won that pvp duel.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight. I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward system like what DAOC had.
While I agree with your comments about the PVP area's, I completely Disagree with your comment about PVP being nothing more then spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons. MMORPG pvp has always been very gear depended, WoW included, yet I think WoW's pvp requires more player skill then any other MMORPG developed so far (with the exception of Asherons call). the system needs improvement, however I feel the actual PVP is very well done.
Give me a max leveled-best shadow damage gear in the game warlock pvper and I'll show you a warlock that will beat other classes 97% of the time or more in 1 v 1 pvp. Don't try to tell people that WoW isn't gear dependent. For the record, if you have a G15 keyboard you don't even need 2 buttons to win in PvP. You can push one button and walk away from the keyboard knowing when you come back you will have won that pvp duel.
Please, either read a post first before you comment on it or go back to the Dark & light forum.
Originally posted by Exmond Gotta love the whiny young kids comments.Come on, stand for yourselves and get off the "I hate WOW" bandwagon.
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Originally posted by Exmond Gotta love the whiny young kids comments.
Come on, stand for yourselves and get off the "I hate WOW" bandwagon.
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Its actually far from a bad game. its a game that is not meant for you, simple as that.
Comments
anyone here is saying the writer, or any forums poster here does not
have the right to voice their opinion or viewpoints on this website.
I think the point is that this is a website that specializes in
MMORPG's and in my opinion is the premier site to go to for the
broadest selection of views and comprehensive information on how
MMORPG's go over.
The point a lot of people are making, and I would have to agree, is
that if your working for this website and getting front page
editorials, you had better have a lot of experience in the MMO
genre. Whether you agree with him or not, he simply comes off as
not being experienced enough to project the level of credibility for
the average person here to give a flying crap.
I've
been playing games in this genre for 10 years, and I would imagine that
there are a lot of other people who have a good bit of experience under
their belt as well. Now imagine your in my situation, or have a
good deal of dealings with this genre and industry, and some guy tells
you that game XYZ is the best thing since sliced bread, and his total
gaming experience is only a few games. You frankly aren't
going to out much stock in his opinion. It would be like a 4 year
old telling you to vote for a politcal party in real life, he simply
can't be credible with his experience to warrant anyone taking him
seriously. Since this site's success in my opinion is based on
the fact that many of its members are so experienced, it has become the
place I and many others go to for credible and solid discussions and
viewpoints.
Bias has nothing to do with it because they are editorials, they are
supposed to be tilted one way or the other because its a writers
opinion. Do not mix up editorial with review, they are not the
same thing, but regardless many feel the writer does not have enough
experience to come off as someone worthy of front page articles,
regardless of whether you agree with his viewpoint.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Come on guys, give the dude a break. Learn to read! He didn't give MMORPG's review of WoW at the two year mark with a score. The dude gave us an editorial.
Use some common sense and learn what an opinion is.
Good grief, get off the guy already. Kudos to the MMORPG management for realizing the inexperienced/casual gamers have a voice also.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
You are "reviewing" it, not writing a complete game manual.
In my book, a month is enough to review it. Hell, even a day can give u
enough experience and knowledge to review SOME aspects of the game (you
dont need to get to max level in order to see that UI is not (or is)
very customizable, or that graphics suck (or rock))
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
All I can say is if casual MMORPG players around the globe are willing to give me $1,350,000,000 a year annual revenue saying that my game isn't half bad, who am I to argue? No other MMORPG game out there has made more in it's lifetime than WoW made this past year. NONE. Sure, WoW might be classified as MMORPG for Dummies, but as a share holder in the companies stock, I'll take dumb over niche any day of the week.
Bottom line is, these games may be there for your enjoyment and the enjoyment of the creators, but more importantly, they are there to make money. Blizzard delivered better than anyone ever expected. EVER!
All I can say to you jealous people is.... /CRY MORE
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
really depends on what your idea of content is. Running the same
dungeon once or twice a week for over a year trying to get your stuff
to drop is no more content then emptying my cats litter pan every
week.
You know its bad when you can turn your exp bar
into a reputation bar and grind out 48000 points of rep by collecting
and turning in crab shells for 2 points each. But hey, if
that's your idea of content, have at it.
Some people like
to pay $15 a month too run through the same exact dungeon 2-3 times a
week, every week. More power to you.
Some people like the fact that on a PvP server you get penalized for attacking towns.
Some people like the fact that the entire war between the alliance and
the horde is being fought over a 1 acre stretch of woods thats
instanced, a lumber mill and farm thats instanced, or a snow covered
valley that is instanced.
I think that most the people who
see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to
experience other games. There is no way you can say with a
straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke
if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Like I said, nobody is arguing the right of this guy to have his on
views and write a review. I just think that a lot of people would
argue that it does not belong on the front page of this site which
specializes in MMOs, when I have seen better reviews written by more
experienced community members fall by the wayside in these very forums.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
yes its not my cup of tea, or a lot of others peoples cup of tea. but I don't hate the game, and I don't get why other people hate it either just don't subscribe to it and stop being annoying.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
You know its bad when you can turn your exp bar into a reputation bar and grind out 48000 points of rep by collecting and turning in crab shells for 2 points each. But hey, if that's your idea of content, have at it.
Some people like to pay $15 a month too run through the same exact dungeon 2-3 times a week, every week. More power to you.
Some people like the fact that on a PvP server you get penalized for attacking towns.
Some people like the fact that the entire war between the alliance and the horde is being fought over a 1 acre stretch of woods thats instanced, a lumber mill and farm thats instanced, or a snow covered valley that is instanced.
I think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who have been around the block to experience other games. There is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with PvP other then WoW.
Like I said, nobody is arguing the right of this guy to have his on views and write a review. I just think that a lot of people would argue that it does not belong on the front page of this site which specializes in MMOs, when I have seen better reviews written by more experienced community members fall by the wayside in these very forums.
While I think WoW is an awesome game and more than delivered on content and you don't, I respect that. The day that WoW went live there was more land, more instances, more unique quests (over 1,300 quests) not quest chains, and the best game from 1-59 ever made. PERIOD. Compared to other games, WoW runs flawless. I concede that level 60 in WoW to this day has left a lot to be desired.
I am on your band-wagon when you say that WoW's PvP is a laughable joke. There is no doubt about it. With TBC, the joke gets worse. They are forcing PvP down PvEer's throats and I think that is almost as bad as what SoE did to SWG with their NGE. Getting to 70, people will have no choice but to be forced to PvP. I believe that pvp should be kept to PvP servers. This carebear style of PvPing "when I feel like it" blows chunks. You are right, confining PvP to instances was a very bad move.
To me, Blizzard needs to have PvE servers (no pvp at all), PvE light (with the /pvp option) and then their standard PvP servers. They should not force PvEers into pvp and I feel that mistake with TBC is going to hurt them badly subscription wise.
Saying all that, just because they got PvP wrong doesn't mean that the other 95% of the game WoW is a bad game.
They delievered to the PvEers, Raiders, Casual players, and some to the PvPers. With the expansion, the PvPers are getting a lot of love. You will be getting what you asked for in WoW. A lot of their PvP is changing. Unfortunately, what you are asking for is at the expense of the PvE crowd. The PvP crowd and the PvE crowd both deserve respect and attention. Unfortunately, ever PvP "balance" issue and more PvP content is need issue has a cost. That cost is that the PvE player is getting pushed out of the game.
The problems that you and I are defining are not confined to WoW. The industry as a whole has a problem of not having enough different types of server rulesets. More importantly, all companies fail at ruleset enforcement. It can't be that hard to set flags to No PvP aspects will be on, Some PvP aspects will be on, All PvP aspects will be on and then do that for RP as well, and then RP PVP rulesets as well.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I'm disappointed.
I write more pointless nonsense than anyone. Where's my hate thread?
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the reviews of MMORPG.com or its management.
Nonsense. WoW does what it does brilliantly well. Do I think that the end-game in WoW is borked? Yes, I do. That, as I have written many times, is the game's principal shortcoming, and it's fair enough to point that out. But the attitude that "if you are an experienced gamer, you must think this game is a sick joke" is nonsense and elitist in the extreme.
industry as a whole has a problem of not having enough different types
of server rulesets. More importantly, all companies fail at ruleset
enforcement. It can't be that hard to set flags to No PvP aspects
will be on, Some PvP aspects will be on, All PvP aspects will be on and
then do that for RP as well, and then RP PVP rulesets as well.
I think it's because it is very hard to balance a game for both PvP and PvE. It's extremely hard to do that. Honestly I think it's very hard to design a game that caters to both playstyles as well, because they are so extremely different. Bizzard has tried to do this from the beginning, with mixed results, I think, and numerous "class reviews" and nerfings, de-nerfings and counter nerfings (which is what you get in a PvP game because everyone QQs when their class is bested by other classes in PvP).
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
think that most the people who see WoW for what it is are those who
have been around the block to experience other games. There
is no way you can say with a straight face that the PvP in WoW is
anything beyond a laughable joke if you have played a serious MMO with
PvP other then WoW.
Actually, that far
from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved
on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun
and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along
their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The
finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the
desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a
gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith
in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded
their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any
skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the
guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight.
I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people
would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of
playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward
system like what DAOC had.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
No truer words have ever been said, where has the skill gone in these MMOGs? oh wait thats right theres the RPG in there, so automatically that means that any quadraplegic with amuptated arms should be able to play.
Also as "opinions", when did they become non attackable and automatically right. an OPINION can be WRONG. if i came to the forum and said "the holocaust was a good thing" ... its would be my opinion. its still wrong and stupid.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight. I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward system like what DAOC had.
While I agree with your comments about the PVP area's, I completely Disagree with your comment about PVP being nothing more then spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons. MMORPG pvp has always been very gear depended, WoW included, yet I think WoW's pvp requires more player skill then any other MMORPG developed so far (with the exception of Asherons call). the system needs improvement, however I feel the actual PVP is very well done.
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight. I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward system like what DAOC had.
While I agree with your comments about the PVP area's, I completely Disagree with your comment about PVP being nothing more then spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons. MMORPG pvp has always been very gear depended, WoW included, yet I think WoW's pvp requires more player skill then any other MMORPG developed so far (with the exception of Asherons call). the system needs improvement, however I feel the actual PVP is very well done.
Give me a max leveled-best shadow damage gear in the game warlock pvper and I'll show you a warlock that will beat other classes 97% of the time or more in 1 v 1 pvp. Don't try to tell people that WoW isn't gear dependent. For the record, if you have a G15 keyboard you don't even need 2 buttons to win in PvP. You can push one button and walk away from the keyboard knowing when you come back you will have won that pvp duel.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Actually, that far from the truth. While the PVP SYSTEM might have a lot to be improved on, the actual PVP combat and gametypes is actually a lot of fun and quite well done.
The games PvP is almost entirely instanced. They strung along their playerbase for a year promising world PvP changes. The finally delivered "SandLOL" trying to have players Fed-Ex sand in the desert trying to convince them its a valueable resource. It was a gigantic slap in the face to everyone who believed and put their faith in the devs. The overworld is barren because they have hearded their population into instances.
The actual gameplay aspect of the PvP is almost devoid of any skill. It consists of spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons, and the guy with the best raid gear wins 90% of the time in a fair fight. I'm not flaming, I respect your opinion and I know a lot of people would probably agree. I've simply had the benefit of playing other games which I think had better combat and a better reward system like what DAOC had.
While I agree with your comments about the PVP area's, I completely Disagree with your comment about PVP being nothing more then spamming the same 1 or 2 buttons. MMORPG pvp has always been very gear depended, WoW included, yet I think WoW's pvp requires more player skill then any other MMORPG developed so far (with the exception of Asherons call). the system needs improvement, however I feel the actual PVP is very well done.
Give me a max leveled-best shadow damage gear in the game warlock pvper and I'll show you a warlock that will beat other classes 97% of the time or more in 1 v 1 pvp. Don't try to tell people that WoW isn't gear dependent. For the record, if you have a G15 keyboard you don't even need 2 buttons to win in PvP. You can push one button and walk away from the keyboard knowing when you come back you will have won that pvp duel.
Please, either read a post first before you comment on it or go back to the Dark & light forum.
Come on, stand for yourselves and get off the "I hate WOW" bandwagon.
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Its actually far from a bad game. its a game that is not meant for you, simple as that.