Originally posted by SnaKey Originally posted by Exmond Gotta love the whiny young kids comments.Come on, stand for yourselves and get off the "I hate WOW" bandwagon.
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Thats the reason why it's hated so much. The core MMO community wants more niche games, and doesnt want the icky/noob factor to blemish their untarnished ubarness.
Listen, I like EVE too. That is NO reason to diss WoW. Most of the corpmates I had in EVE had a high respect for WoW as a well-done game, despite the fact that they prefer other game designs. What I sense from your posts is the following: "If it isn't a game design that I like, it sux", and frankly that's wrong. You have the entire professional reviewing community against you as well (which gave WoW across the board great ratings, and they are not n00bs) ... and I know you will say it isn't relavant, but au contraire, it is. It's fine for YOU to not like WoW, it was not designed for everyone. When you try to say it's objectively bad, you have a ton of evidence, opinion (includling almost all professional opinion) and experience stacked against you.
Originally posted by Exmond Gotta love the whiny young kids comments.
Come on, stand for yourselves and get off the "I hate WOW" bandwagon.
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Thats the reason why it's hated so much. The core MMO community wants more niche games, and doesnt want the icky/noob factor to blemish their untarnished ubarness.
Listen, I like EVE too. That is NO reason to diss WoW. Most of the corpmates I had in EVE had a high respect for WoW as a well-done game, despite the fact that they prefer other game designs. What I sense from your posts is the following: "If it isn't a game design that I like, it sux", and frankly that's wrong. You have the entire professional reviewing community against you as well (which gave WoW across the board great ratings, and they are not n00bs) ... and I know you will say it isn't relavant, but au contraire, it is. It's fine for YOU to not like WoW, it was not designed for everyone. When you try to say it's objectively bad, you have a ton of evidence, opinion (includling almost all professional opinion) and experience stacked against you.
Novaseeker hits the nail on the head. this is what I have been saying for many months in about every anti-WoW thread. Its good to see someone actually looks beyond his own opinion.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Most of the corpmates I had in EVE had a high respect for WoW as a well-done game, despite the fact that they prefer other game designs.
But tell me what exactly is well done besides the phenomenal programming?
Quests: Dull and repetative. I'm not a big quester and it's they are the same in most games... but WoW has not exactly lead the way when it comes to new quest designs.
PVP: Equipment based. Those who spend more time grinding dungeons over and over and over, have better gear and will win PVP. While the low lvl 1v1 PVP is quite well done and fun to play, the higher level PVP comes down to nothing but 'thou who haseth best sword, winneth combat'.
PVE: Nothing exceptional here. Mob sees you, it attacks. Sneak in and drag one out with a range weapon or a Hunter's pet from around corners and none of the other mobs even seem to notice their their buddy just got shot in the face.
Crafting: A friggin joke. Pointless at best. Starting at the first raid you can enter, you can get better equipment than you could ever get from crafting.
Economy: Worse than crafting. Auction House is just to keep ppl from spamming local......... which they still friggin do. /2 WTS [UBER GLOVES]
Lore: I'm not big on lore and barely know the lore behind EVE besides the basics. But, I don't think WoW has exceptional Lore.
War: Continuing from the Lore part... Where is this "War" between Horde and the Alliance? Horde goes in and raids Iron Forge, leaves... and all returns to normal. Even with the outerboundry towns.
Customization: "This build works better than this build" "This armor is better than this armor" that's the extent of WoW's character customization.
People keep saying the game is good, but don't have any substance behind it! If you say the game is good, at least give some supporting details behind your opinions.
Those details would again be nothing more then an opinion.
But anyway, here is my response.
Quests may be dull and repetive, but they are set up well. they guide you along the world, showing you every place of the world
PVP is not fully equipment based. Go look up the PVP video's of Otherguy, Jamaz and World of Roguecraft
You indeed get better items from raiding, but you won't raid untill you are level 60. Crafting is made nice and simple and it works. Everybody can pick up crafting without putting hours in it.
There is nothing wrong with the economy at all, it works fine.
War is currently in battlegrounds, which are set up well, and are to most people a lot of fun to play.
Originally posted by Novaseeker The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Thats the reason why it's hated so much. The core MMO community wants more niche games, and doesnt want the icky/noob factor to blemish their untarnished ubarness.
You have the entire professional reviewing community against you as well (which gave WoW across the board great ratings, and they are not n00bs) ... and I know you will say it isn't relavant, but au contraire, it is. It's fine for YOU to not like WoW, it was not designed for everyone. My gawd, a voice of reason!
Originally posted by Gameloading Those details would again be nothing more then an opinion. But anyway, here is my response.
Quests may be dull and repetive, but they are set up well. they guide you along the world, showing you every place of the world PVP is not fully equipment based. Go look up the PVP video's of Otherguy, Jamaz and World of Roguecraft You indeed get better items from raiding, but you won't raid untill you are level 60. Crafting is made nice and simple and it works. Everybody can pick up crafting without putting hours in it. There is nothing wrong with the economy at all, it works fine.
War is currently in battlegrounds, which are set up well, and are to most people a lot of fun to play.
Crafting is nice and simple. More like the whole game is nice and simple. As a matter of fact that sums up the entire game. Nice and simple. Wayyyy too simple. You can max out a character in like 2 months. Dying is no big deal because you receive no penalty. When you die you just dust yourself off and do it all again. Where's the challenge? All you do is consistently receive rewards for doing tasks of little to no difficulty.
I've played alot of mmo's and I've never seen a crafting system so easy. Not only is it easy but quite pointeless. I remember when my Blacksmith could make Thorium armor. At first I was thrilled and couldn't wait to make it for my guild. Unfortunately for me ... No one wanted it. The armor sucked. Just like virtually all the other recipes.
This must be why the community is dominated by ill tempered children with foul mouths.
Originally posted by SnaKey The quests drive people through the game. Not everyone likes that, but Blizzard's idea was to make the game accesible and have a flow to it, and it certainly does that.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Most of the corpmates I had in EVE had a high respect for WoW as a well-done game, despite the fact that they prefer other game designs.
But tell me what exactly is well done besides the phenomenal programming?
This counts for a lot. They've made a lot of changes and updates and yet it remains unbuggy. Programming talent is important. Quests: Dull and repetative. I'm not a big quester and it's they are the same in most games... but WoW has not exactly lead the way when it comes to new quest designs. WoW's innovation was to drive people through zones with quest design and to have the game have a real "flow". It works brilliantly. It's not that the individual quests are excellent, it's that taken as a whole they flow you through the game in a very satsifying way (for most people). PVP: Equipment based. Those who spend more time grinding dungeons over and over and over, have better gear and will win PVP. While the low lvl 1v1 PVP is quite well done and fun to play, the higher level PVP comes down to nothing but 'thou who haseth best sword, winneth combat'No PvP is skilz-based in MMOs. In EVE it isn't skillz-based either, it's about having the right gear on your ship and knowing when to use it (oe when to run). Skillz-based PvP happens in online FPS, not MMOs.
Crafting: A friggin joke. Pointless at best. Starting at the first raid you can enter, you can get better equipment than you could ever get from crafting.On crafting, it works well for potions and consumables, not for weapons and equipment. I agree this is a weak point, but EVE's system of cartels for the t2 items and ships is also pretty dysfunctional for anyone who isn't a member of the cartel.
Economy: Worse than crafting. Auction House is just to keep ppl from spamming local......... which they still friggin do. /2 WTS [UBER GLOVES]Auction house is there so that you can sell without being online (unlike the original design of EQ2). It works well, and most players like it. It certainly is not a weak point. Lore: I'm not big on lore and barely know the lore behind EVE besides the basics. But, I don't think WoW has exceptional Lore. WoW has lore books around the game, you just need to read them. I like EVE's lore, but I've had the loremasters of EVE tell me face to face that they do not have dev resources to expand upon the lore in the game, because the devs are focused on PvP. So much for lore. War: Continuing from the Lore part... Where is this "War" between Horde and the Alliance? Horde goes in and raids Iron Forge, leaves... and all returns to normal. Even with the outerboundry towns.And in EVE? Where is it? Minmatar can enter Amarr space without being enslaved and vice versa. There is no lore based war in EVE. The lore universe is almost completely static. The wars that happen in EVE are almost entirely unrelated to lore at all, between "OMGWPWZ0RZJOO" corp and "BURN EDEN" corp and the like. It's all FFA PvP not lore.
The thing about EVE is that it is complex and simplified at the same time. PvP in EVE is all about DPS and mitigation. Healing is irrelevant for all but larger battles. Buffs don't exist. DoTs, HoTs, same. It's really a game focused on DPS vs. mitigation, which is a simple battle system, albeit the designers made both DPS and mitigation complex. So EVE is a simple system at base that took the few relevant components and complicated them. Sure more complex things have been added, but 90% of the game is DPS vs. mitigation, which is a very simplistic approach compared to most other games.
Originally posted by Gameloading Those details would again be nothing more then an opinion. But anyway, here is my response.
Quests may be dull and repetive, but they are set up well. they guide you along the world, showing you every place of the world PVP is not fully equipment based. Go look up the PVP video's of Otherguy, Jamaz and World of Roguecraft You indeed get better items from raiding, but you won't raid untill you are level 60. Crafting is made nice and simple and it works. Everybody can pick up crafting without putting hours in it. There is nothing wrong with the economy at all, it works fine.
War is currently in battlegrounds, which are set up well, and are to most people a lot of fun to play.
Crafting is nice and simple. More like the whole game is nice and simple. As a matter of fact that sums up the entire game. Nice and simple. Wayyyy too simple. You can max out a character in like 2 months. Dying is no big deal because you receive no penalty. When you die you just dust yourself off and do it all again. Where's the challenge? All you do is consistently receive rewards for doing tasks of little to no difficulty.
I've played alot of mmo's and I've never seen a crafting system so easy. Not only is it easy but quite pointeless. I remember when my Blacksmith could make Thorium armor. At first I was thrilled and couldn't wait to make it for my guild. Unfortunately for me ... No one wanted it. The armor sucked. Just like virtually all the other recipes.
This must be why the community is dominated by ill tempered children with foul mouths.
Being able to max out your character in 2 months and the lack of a harsh death penalty says nothing about the difficulty, it only says something about the time sink. I myself have played a lot of MMORPG's, and I never played a single one that actually required playerskill. I could play all of them drunk and with one hand if I wanted to. Every MMORPG so far has been, Imo, way to easy.
Originally posted by SnaKey Originally posted by Novaseeker Most of the corpmates I had in EVE had a high respect for WoW as a well-done game, despite the fact that they prefer other game designs.
But tell me what exactly is well done besides the phenomenal programming?
Quests: Dull and repetative. I'm not a big quester and it's they are the same in most games... but WoW has not exactly lead the way when it comes to new quest designs.
PVP: Equipment based. Those who spend more time grinding dungeons over and over and over, have better gear and will win PVP. While the low lvl 1v1 PVP is quite well done and fun to play, the higher level PVP comes down to nothing but 'thou who haseth best sword, winneth combat'.
PVE: Nothing exceptional here. Mob sees you, it attacks. Sneak in and drag one out with a range weapon or a Hunter's pet from around corners and none of the other mobs even seem to notice their their buddy just got shot in the face.
Crafting: A friggin joke. Pointless at best. Starting at the first raid you can enter, you can get better equipment than you could ever get from crafting.
Economy: Worse than crafting. Auction House is just to keep ppl from spamming local......... which they still friggin do. /2 WTS [UBER GLOVES]
Lore: I'm not big on lore and barely know the lore behind EVE besides the basics. But, I don't think WoW has exceptional Lore.
War: Continuing from the Lore part... Where is this "War" between Horde and the Alliance? Horde goes in and raids Iron Forge, leaves... and all returns to normal. Even with the outerboundry towns.
Customization: "This build works better than this build" "This armor is better than this armor" that's the extent of WoW's character customization.
People keep saying the game is good, but don't have any substance behind it! If you say the game is good, at least give some supporting details behind your opinions.
what mmo isnt gear based? the economy is fine most people buy there stuff in the AH. Crafting is actually quite useful for a while but ya the raid dungeons give better gear, but there is some nice epics and what not, crafting will be more importantly in the expansion because of jewelcrafting and items with slots. All MMO's basically have repetitive quests.
Oh ya, and one build isn't necessarily better then any other build they are used in different situations, like PVE and PvP. There are a variation of PVE and PvP builds and each one is used for a different purpose.
Ive played wow for more then year becouse of friends played it hardcore first 6 months then i get little tired of it and that became more and more.
Now i cant believe myself ive played this game i dont say i hate it but i dont like it anymore its in a lot of ways realy crap game.
But i understand for casuals, kids and all who want a easy cute carebear game play wow and have fun and thats majority millions are avarage players who dont demand much of a game wow is tailor made for them:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I think WoW gets a fair bit of criticism as it lacks certain qualities of other mmorpgs which in a way is it's intention anyway to make an accessible mmorpg.
No PvP is skilz-based in MMOs. In EVE it isn't skillz-based either, it's about having the right gear on your ship and knowing when to use it (oe when to run). Skillz-based PvP happens in online FPS, not MMOs.
I used to think this but there is a difference. You can tell good players from bad players outside their gear and the most clearcut example of this is horde and alliance. Horde win the majority because in general many players on horde are just better at pvp. WoW may not be 'twitch-based' but it's pvp does have an element of skill and awareness which is watered down by levels and the equipment divide.
Any mmorpg that you can get from level 1 to 60 in 4 days time is not only simple, it's friggin' juvenile. Why buy the game? Just play the trial and you can get the whole experience and can spend the last 10 days raiding, then uninstall it. Game finished. A full featured singleplayer game that last two weeks at a time and it's free. What more could you ask? Do one profession each time and you get months of enjoyment.
Originally posted by Zorvan Any mmorpg that you can get from level 1 to 60 in 4 days time is not only simple, it's friggin' juvenile. Why buy the game? Just play the trial and you can get the whole experience and can spend the last 10 days raiding, then uninstall it. Game finished. A full featured singleplayer game that last two weeks at a time and it's free. What more could you ask? Do one profession each time and you get months of enjoyment.
I played for over a year and my highest lvl was under 50. Its not about leveling, its about having fun, which it was for me.
Originally posted by HEYuSHOOSH Because you can't completely loot peoples corpse doesnt mean its a carebear game.
There is no death penalty for anything. The worst thing that can ever happen to you in a 20 sec run back to your body. There is no real travel. Go to town, talk to guy, click map, your there in 1 minute. Hell they even moved the Battlegrounds in the town so you have no real reason to ever leave the city. PvP, run into a crowd of people carelessly, chop away, when you die be back at the fight before anyone has had time to heal. The game never penalizes you in any way. Even the losers get rewarded in BGs. It doesn't get any more carebear then this, its the kindergarten of MMOs. A good game for beginners, but once you learn your ABCs, its time to move on to something a little more challenging.
Originally posted by Paragus1 Originally posted by HEYuSHOOSH Because you can't completely loot peoples corpse doesnt mean its a carebear game.
There is no death penalty for anything. The worst thing that can ever happen to you in a 20 sec run back to your body. There is no real travel. Go to town, talk to guy, click map, your there in 1 minute. Hell they even moved the Battlegrounds in the town so you have no real reason to ever leave the city. PvP, run into a crowd of people carelessly, chop away, when you die be back at the fight before anyone has had time to heal. The game never penalizes you in any way. Even the losers get rewarded in BGs. It doesn't get any more carebear then this, its the kindergarten of MMOs. A good game for beginners, but once you learn your ABCs, its time to move on to something a little more challenging. See what you're not getting is that a lot of people -- millions of them -- like the challenge level the way WoW sets it. I agree that players looking for a more challenging game throughout will find WoW lacking, but it's not true that all "advanced" gamers prefer hardcore games, not at all. It has to do with time available, the person's risk/reward preferences, pacing preferences and the like. There are plenty of people in WoW who have 15-20 years gaming experience and who love WoW because it is so casual friendly (other than the raiding at end-game) and they like the challenge level the way it is because they don't have as much time on their hands to sink into more "challenging" games with real death penalties, time-consuming travel and the like. Millions of people like WoW's challenge rating, and they aren't all n00bs.
Originally posted by HEYuSHOOSH Because you can't completely loot peoples corpse doesnt mean its a carebear game.
There is no death penalty for anything. The worst thing that can ever happen to you in a 20 sec run back to your body. There is no real travel. Go to town, talk to guy, click map, your there in 1 minute. Hell they even moved the Battlegrounds in the town so you have no real reason to ever leave the city. PvP, run into a crowd of people carelessly, chop away, when you die be back at the fight before anyone has had time to heal. The game never penalizes you in any way. Even the losers get rewarded in BGs. It doesn't get any more carebear then this, its the kindergarten of MMOs. A good game for beginners, but once you learn your ABCs, its time to move on to something a little more challenging.
A death penalty doesn't make the game more challenging, it just increases the timesink, thats all.
Originally posted by logangregor Originally posted by Nierro Originally posted by FunKPanda Originally posted by Kryogenic For the most part, when there's an editiorial from this site, it's balanced with insights on the pros and cons of a game. This editorial, however, made me wanna puke.Unless I am mistaken, an editorial is defined as "of or relating to an article stating opinions or giving perspectives; 'editorial column' ". (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=editorial). So you can't get too mad at the guy for not being fully objective. He gave HIS opinion and HIS perspective of the game. And to SnaKey, if the guy's article doesnt match your view, then thats fine. He shouldn't be fired for doing his job.
The author of that editorial shouldn't be working for mmorpg.com, because he isn't experienced with that time of game..
He shouldn't have been hired in the first place, imho.
WoW and your 15 right?
Imho you should really just S T F U
Puberty first...then maybe you can decide the fate of grown mens careers.
Heres to you dumbass
When you can't make a good comeback, just throw a punch at someone younger, right? I also enjoyed the fact that you instinctively spelled "wow" as "WoW", that should tell you something about your maturity level.
WoW is a great game if you want to introduce your gf or your mom to the mmo universe. It's a great tutorial style game as it's very user friendly and simplistic.
But hardcore mmo fans will find it rather empty. You'll play it for months and feel you've accomplished nothing.
"Simply said, WoW offers something to three of the largest groups in MMOs. The achievers have their endless dungeon and raid runs to collect their armor sets and baubles. "
Endless dungeon raids? You mean doing the same dungeons over and over and over and over what fun!
"The player versus player crowd has world set aside for them as well as battlegrounds."
Pointless PVP I might add. See above re: repetitive crap.
"And the casual players have more content than they could ever hope to accomplish in a run to 60 with just one character. "
Yes, they may have missed one of those highly ingenious, original and exciting kill 10 cobalts, oh no! Better make a new character and grind to 60 again just to be sure I didnt miss one!
"Role-players weren't thrown too many bones in WoW. With no houses, no non-combat classes, and little attention paid to anything besides killing critters and each other, there's just much to mention for the role-player crowd."
Exactly. But surprisingly its not just role players that look for content or freedom in games.
All the games mentioned in the first paragraph lost me the moment I couldn't defeat monsters my own level. The moment I was forced to group I lost interest. I painfully remember nights where I spent more time looking for a party than adventuring.
LMAO!!!! This is a joke right? You are reviewing WOW yes?
Call it dumbed down, simple, or whatever you want, me and six million others will happily be spending our time in a game aimed at expanding the MMO market.
Originally posted by SnaKey Originally posted by nikoa Snakey for MMORPG staff member!
I can actually write pretty good reviews. I have been working on a game review site of my own for a little while, but I don't know PHP and it kinda overwhelmed me. Just because I think that WoW is pretty bad and EVE is awsome, doesn't mean I can't be critical about both.
Hopefully, I can finish it soon. I have a friend who's learning PHP and he's been programming in C++ for 9yrs, so he should pick it up pretty quick.
If all you are doing is reviews then use some sort of blog software/site.
Seems like a lot of folks here are posting like they are better journalists than the author of this, yet they don't seem to understand what an 'editorial' is or how to read for understanding, i.e. this artical was about how WoW was still good after two years of 'casual' play, and you all berated the WoW based upon its merits as a hardcore game.
If you have done instances over and over and over and over and over again in WoW or sat for 3 to 5 hours a night hoping for something new in WoW 'cuz you've seen it all......I wouldn't call you an expert on playing WoW 'casually'.
If you casually have played WoW for the last two years, then yes, it is still fun and exciting and new, and you may have only done those instances one or two times and some of them not at all cause your guild is too 'casual'. So before criticizing someone on their profession, make sure you actually can pass a reading for comprehension course.
The original poster clearly stated he was a casual player. I see no problem with an editorial when they specifically state their experience. This was probably a decent summation of WoW from a very casual players perspective, because a casual player probably wont care much about the details. Fun, properly functioning and lots of other player to play with is probably all they really need to know. I think it would probably be better if they had another editorial with a Hard Core Gammers perspective, especially on this site. That way the user could decide which catagory they fit into and decide which editorial applies to them.
Originally posted by SnaKey PVE: Nothing exceptional here. Mob sees you, it attacks. Sneak in and drag one out with a range weapon or a Hunter's pet from around corners and none of the other mobs even seem to notice their their buddy just got shot in the face.
This statement here is just way way off. I have to assume here that you didnt get very far in WoW. 90% of the time spent by hard core gamers in WoW is in the 40 man RAID instances. Those PVE instances are extremely challenging. They require strategy, teamwork, skill, timing and many other things to get through them. MOST hardcore gamers in WOW still have not beat 6mo to 1yr old content yet. The main reason being its difficult to find 40 hardcore gamers to beat the instances with. Without guides its even more difficult. It only becomes somewhat beatable with the use of step by step guides read from other hardcore gaming sites. Even a casual group using these guides trying to beat 2yr old content would find it very challenging.
Some of the reasons its challenging is the multiple boss mobs each have special abilities, strenghts and weaknesses. Even knowing the weaknesses (which are difficult to discern without someone telling you) its hard to get everyone in the raid to work together to exploit them.
The reason why people are running the same instances a billion times, is because they are running lower "easier" instances due to the others being too difficult for them to figure out, so therefore they are trying to get any advantage they can, namely gear and guild raid experience, while thier guild gets sufficient knowledge and skill to beat the harder instances.
Originally posted by dmitri84 No other game I repeat NO comes close to WoW in content+graphics.
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
All I can say is if casual MMORPG players around the globe are willing to give me $1,350,000,000 a year annual revenue saying that my game isn't half bad, who am I to argue? No other MMORPG game out there has made more in it's lifetime than WoW made this past year. NONE. Sure, WoW might be classified as MMORPG for Dummies, but as a share holder in the companies stock, I'll take dumb over niche any day of the week.
Bottom line is, these games may be there for your enjoyment and the enjoyment of the creators, but more importantly, they are there to make money. Blizzard delivered better than anyone ever expected. EVER!
All I can say to you jealous people is.... /CRY MORE
MMMMMkay... What you guys gotta understand is.....
WoW does NOT have 7+ million subscribers!
(Not that you said there were 7 million subscribers, but most fans use this as an argument on why wow is the best)
They have 7 million customers.......... Please, think for a moment, do you really think there are 7 MILLION WoW accounts active?
They calculate that by anyone who has tried the game, trial accounts, bought accounts, even people in asia who have played the game. (accounts that are banned, compromised, and inactive are counted)
There was a thread about this some months back if anyone remebers.....
Btw im not flaming WoW in any way. Ive been playing off and on since beta. The only reason that I keep playing is probally because of my friends playing.... If it werent for them I would have dumped WoW a long time ago.
I really wish i could travel back in time and play the early days of WoW... When there was no instanced PvP... People would spam for world PvP raid groups and attack towns and cities... There were few 60's per server, raiding endgame was almost non existant... No civilians, no honor, no DKP, just pure WoW fun.
Comments
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Thats the reason why it's hated so much. The core MMO community wants more niche games, and doesnt want the icky/noob factor to blemish their untarnished ubarness.
Listen, I like EVE too. That is NO reason to diss WoW. Most of the corpmates I had in EVE had a high respect for WoW as a well-done game, despite the fact that they prefer other game designs. What I sense from your posts is the following: "If it isn't a game design that I like, it sux", and frankly that's wrong. You have the entire professional reviewing community against you as well (which gave WoW across the board great ratings, and they are not n00bs) ... and I know you will say it isn't relavant, but au contraire, it is. It's fine for YOU to not like WoW, it was not designed for everyone. When you try to say it's objectively bad, you have a ton of evidence, opinion (includling almost all professional opinion) and experience stacked against you.
The only reason it's talked about so much is because it's the biggest game out. Like someone else said, if the game had 100,000 ppl playing, I would still hate it. I don't care, it's just a bad game all around. It has some good spots, but then again so does Post-NGE SWG.
Thats the reason why it's hated so much. The core MMO community wants more niche games, and doesnt want the icky/noob factor to blemish their untarnished ubarness.
Listen, I like EVE too. That is NO reason to diss WoW. Most of the corpmates I had in EVE had a high respect for WoW as a well-done game, despite the fact that they prefer other game designs. What I sense from your posts is the following: "If it isn't a game design that I like, it sux", and frankly that's wrong. You have the entire professional reviewing community against you as well (which gave WoW across the board great ratings, and they are not n00bs) ... and I know you will say it isn't relavant, but au contraire, it is. It's fine for YOU to not like WoW, it was not designed for everyone. When you try to say it's objectively bad, you have a ton of evidence, opinion (includling almost all professional opinion) and experience stacked against you.
Novaseeker hits the nail on the head. this is what I have been saying for many months in about every anti-WoW thread. Its good to see someone actually looks beyond his own opinion.
Excellent post Novaseeker.
But tell me what exactly is well done besides the phenomenal programming?
Quests: Dull and repetative. I'm not a big quester and it's they are the same in most games... but WoW has not exactly lead the way when it comes to new quest designs.
PVP: Equipment based. Those who spend more time grinding dungeons over and over and over, have better gear and will win PVP. While the low lvl 1v1 PVP is quite well done and fun to play, the higher level PVP comes down to nothing but 'thou who haseth best sword, winneth combat'.
PVE: Nothing exceptional here. Mob sees you, it attacks. Sneak in and drag one out with a range weapon or a Hunter's pet from around corners and none of the other mobs even seem to notice their their buddy just got shot in the face.
Crafting: A friggin joke. Pointless at best. Starting at the first raid you can enter, you can get better equipment than you could ever get from crafting.
Economy: Worse than crafting. Auction House is just to keep ppl from spamming local......... which they still friggin do. /2 WTS [UBER GLOVES]
Lore: I'm not big on lore and barely know the lore behind EVE besides the basics. But, I don't think WoW has exceptional Lore.
War: Continuing from the Lore part... Where is this "War" between Horde and the Alliance? Horde goes in and raids Iron Forge, leaves... and all returns to normal. Even with the outerboundry towns.
Customization: "This build works better than this build" "This armor is better than this armor" that's the extent of WoW's character customization.
People keep saying the game is good, but don't have any substance behind it! If you say the game is good, at least give some supporting details behind your opinions.
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Those details would again be nothing more then an opinion.
But anyway, here is my response.
Quests may be dull and repetive, but they are set up well. they guide you along the world, showing you every place of the world
PVP is not fully equipment based. Go look up the PVP video's of Otherguy, Jamaz and World of Roguecraft
You indeed get better items from raiding, but you won't raid untill you are level 60. Crafting is made nice and simple and it works. Everybody can pick up crafting without putting hours in it.
There is nothing wrong with the economy at all, it works fine.
War is currently in battlegrounds, which are set up well, and are to most people a lot of fun to play.
You have the entire professional reviewing community against you as well (which gave WoW across the board great ratings, and they are not n00bs) ... and I know you will say it isn't relavant, but au contraire, it is. It's fine for YOU to not like WoW, it was not designed for everyone.
My gawd, a voice of reason!
Crafting is nice and simple. More like the whole game is nice and simple. As a matter of fact that sums up the entire game. Nice and simple. Wayyyy too simple. You can max out a character in like 2 months. Dying is no big deal because you receive no penalty. When you die you just dust yourself off and do it all again. Where's the challenge? All you do is consistently receive rewards for doing tasks of little to no difficulty.
I've played alot of mmo's and I've never seen a crafting system so easy. Not only is it easy but quite pointeless. I remember when my Blacksmith could make Thorium armor. At first I was thrilled and couldn't wait to make it for my guild. Unfortunately for me ... No one wanted it. The armor sucked. Just like virtually all the other recipes.
This must be why the community is dominated by ill tempered children with foul mouths.
Crafting is nice and simple. More like the whole game is nice and simple. As a matter of fact that sums up the entire game. Nice and simple. Wayyyy too simple. You can max out a character in like 2 months. Dying is no big deal because you receive no penalty. When you die you just dust yourself off and do it all again. Where's the challenge? All you do is consistently receive rewards for doing tasks of little to no difficulty.
I've played alot of mmo's and I've never seen a crafting system so easy. Not only is it easy but quite pointeless. I remember when my Blacksmith could make Thorium armor. At first I was thrilled and couldn't wait to make it for my guild. Unfortunately for me ... No one wanted it. The armor sucked. Just like virtually all the other recipes.
This must be why the community is dominated by ill tempered children with foul mouths.
Being able to max out your character in 2 months and the lack of a harsh death penalty says nothing about the difficulty, it only says something about the time sink. I myself have played a lot of MMORPG's, and I never played a single one that actually required playerskill. I could play all of them drunk and with one hand if I wanted to. Every MMORPG so far has been, Imo, way to easy.
But tell me what exactly is well done besides the phenomenal programming?
Quests: Dull and repetative. I'm not a big quester and it's they are the same in most games... but WoW has not exactly lead the way when it comes to new quest designs.
PVP: Equipment based. Those who spend more time grinding dungeons over and over and over, have better gear and will win PVP. While the low lvl 1v1 PVP is quite well done and fun to play, the higher level PVP comes down to nothing but 'thou who haseth best sword, winneth combat'.
PVE: Nothing exceptional here. Mob sees you, it attacks. Sneak in and drag one out with a range weapon or a Hunter's pet from around corners and none of the other mobs even seem to notice their their buddy just got shot in the face.
Crafting: A friggin joke. Pointless at best. Starting at the first raid you can enter, you can get better equipment than you could ever get from crafting.
Economy: Worse than crafting. Auction House is just to keep ppl from spamming local......... which they still friggin do. /2 WTS [UBER GLOVES]
Lore: I'm not big on lore and barely know the lore behind EVE besides the basics. But, I don't think WoW has exceptional Lore.
War: Continuing from the Lore part... Where is this "War" between Horde and the Alliance? Horde goes in and raids Iron Forge, leaves... and all returns to normal. Even with the outerboundry towns.
Customization: "This build works better than this build" "This armor is better than this armor" that's the extent of WoW's character customization.
People keep saying the game is good, but don't have any substance behind it! If you say the game is good, at least give some supporting details behind your opinions.
what mmo isnt gear based? the economy is fine most people buy there stuff in the AH. Crafting is actually quite useful for a while but ya the raid dungeons give better gear, but there is some nice epics and what not, crafting will be more importantly in the expansion because of jewelcrafting and items with slots. All MMO's basically have repetitive quests.
Oh ya, and one build isn't necessarily better then any other build they are used in different situations, like PVE and PvP. There are a variation of PVE and PvP builds and each one is used for a different purpose.
Ive played wow for more then year becouse of friends played it hardcore first 6 months then i get little tired of it and that became more and more.
Now i cant believe myself ive played this game i dont say i hate it but i dont like it anymore its in a lot of ways realy crap game.
But i understand for casuals, kids and all who want a easy cute carebear game play wow and have fun and thats majority millions are avarage players who dont demand much of a game wow is tailor made for them:)
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OS:Windows 10 64bit
I think WoW gets a fair bit of criticism as it lacks certain qualities of other mmorpgs which in a way is it's intention anyway to make an accessible mmorpg.
I used to think this but there is a difference. You can tell good players from bad players outside their gear and the most clearcut example of this is horde and alliance. Horde win the majority because in general many players on horde are just better at pvp. WoW may not be 'twitch-based' but it's pvp does have an element of skill and awareness which is watered down by levels and the equipment divide.
Any mmorpg that you can get from level 1 to 60 in 4 days time is not only simple, it's friggin' juvenile. Why buy the game? Just play the trial and you can get the whole experience and can spend the last 10 days raiding, then uninstall it. Game finished. A full featured singleplayer game that last two weeks at a time and it's free. What more could you ask? Do one profession each time and you get months of enjoyment.
There is no death penalty for anything. The worst thing that can
ever happen to you in a 20 sec run back to your body. There
is no real travel. Go to town, talk to guy, click map, your
there in 1 minute. Hell they even moved the Battlegrounds
in the town so you have no real reason to ever leave the city.
PvP, run into a crowd of people carelessly, chop away, when you die be
back at the fight before anyone has had time to heal. The
game never penalizes you in any way. Even the losers get rewarded
in BGs. It doesn't get any more carebear then this, its the
kindergarten of MMOs. A good game for beginners, but once
you learn your ABCs, its time to move on to something a little more
challenging.
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There is no death penalty for anything. The worst thing that can ever happen to you in a 20 sec run back to your body. There is no real travel. Go to town, talk to guy, click map, your there in 1 minute. Hell they even moved the Battlegrounds in the town so you have no real reason to ever leave the city. PvP, run into a crowd of people carelessly, chop away, when you die be back at the fight before anyone has had time to heal. The game never penalizes you in any way. Even the losers get rewarded in BGs. It doesn't get any more carebear then this, its the kindergarten of MMOs. A good game for beginners, but once you learn your ABCs, its time to move on to something a little more challenging.
See what you're not getting is that a lot of people -- millions of them -- like the challenge level the way WoW sets it. I agree that players looking for a more challenging game throughout will find WoW lacking, but it's not true that all "advanced" gamers prefer hardcore games, not at all. It has to do with time available, the person's risk/reward preferences, pacing preferences and the like. There are plenty of people in WoW who have 15-20 years gaming experience and who love WoW because it is so casual friendly (other than the raiding at end-game) and they like the challenge level the way it is because they don't have as much time on their hands to sink into more "challenging" games with real death penalties, time-consuming travel and the like. Millions of people like WoW's challenge rating, and they aren't all n00bs.
A death penalty doesn't make the game more challenging, it just increases the timesink, thats all.
The author of that editorial shouldn't be working for mmorpg.com, because he isn't experienced with that time of game..
He shouldn't have been hired in the first place, imho.
WoW and your 15 right?
Imho you should really just S T F U
Puberty first...then maybe you can decide the fate of grown mens careers.
Heres to you dumbass
When you can't make a good comeback, just throw a punch at someone younger, right? I also enjoyed the fact that you instinctively spelled "wow" as "WoW", that should tell you something about your maturity level.
WoW is a great game if you want to introduce your gf or your mom to the mmo universe. It's a great tutorial style game as it's very user friendly and simplistic.
But hardcore mmo fans will find it rather empty. You'll play it for months and feel you've accomplished nothing.
You are aware of the fact, that you can't "accomplish" something in games besides having fun, aren't you?
"Simply said, WoW offers something to three of the largest groups in MMOs. The achievers have their endless dungeon and raid runs to collect their armor sets and baubles. "
Endless dungeon raids? You mean doing the same dungeons over and over and over and over what fun!
"The player versus player crowd has world set aside for them as well as battlegrounds."
Pointless PVP I might add. See above re: repetitive crap.
"And the casual players have more content than they could ever hope to accomplish in a run to 60 with just one character. "
Yes, they may have missed one of those highly ingenious, original and exciting kill 10 cobalts, oh no! Better make a new character and grind to 60 again just to be sure I didnt miss one!
"Role-players weren't thrown too many bones in WoW. With no houses, no non-combat classes, and little attention paid to anything besides killing critters and each other, there's just much to mention for the role-player crowd."
Exactly. But surprisingly its not just role players that look for content or freedom in games.
All the games mentioned in the first paragraph lost me the moment I
couldn't defeat monsters my own level. The moment I was forced to group
I lost interest. I painfully remember nights where I spent more time
looking for a party than adventuring.
LMAO!!!! This is a joke right? You are reviewing WOW yes?
Call it dumbed down, simple, or whatever you want, me and six million
others will happily be spending our time in a game aimed at expanding
the MMO market.
Great argument! Not.
Sorry, but what a utter piece of garbage.
I can actually write pretty good reviews. I have been working on a game review site of my own for a little while, but I don't know PHP and it kinda overwhelmed me. Just because I think that WoW is pretty bad and EVE is awsome, doesn't mean I can't be critical about both.
Hopefully, I can finish it soon. I have a friend who's learning PHP and he's been programming in C++ for 9yrs, so he should pick it up pretty quick.
If all you are doing is reviews then use some sort of blog software/site.
Seems like a lot of folks here are posting like they are better journalists than the author of this, yet they don't seem to understand what an 'editorial' is or how to read for understanding, i.e. this artical was about how WoW was still good after two years of 'casual' play, and you all berated the WoW based upon its merits as a hardcore game.
If you have done instances over and over and over and over and over again in WoW or sat for 3 to 5 hours a night hoping for something new in WoW 'cuz you've seen it all......I wouldn't call you an expert on playing WoW 'casually'.
If you casually have played WoW for the last two years, then yes, it is still fun and exciting and new, and you may have only done those instances one or two times and some of them not at all cause your guild is too 'casual'. So before criticizing someone on their profession, make sure you actually can pass a reading for comprehension course.
By content do you mean a bland, linear progression to obtain items that make up 3/4s of you characters skills? Or is it the ultra slow movement and cartoony grafix with laughable character customazation? Maybe its the way your spoon-fed content that a three year old finds simple. I guess if thinking is'nt your thing wow rocks.
All I can say is if casual MMORPG players around the globe are willing to give me $1,350,000,000 a year annual revenue saying that my game isn't half bad, who am I to argue? No other MMORPG game out there has made more in it's lifetime than WoW made this past year. NONE. Sure, WoW might be classified as MMORPG for Dummies, but as a share holder in the companies stock, I'll take dumb over niche any day of the week.
Bottom line is, these games may be there for your enjoyment and the enjoyment of the creators, but more importantly, they are there to make money. Blizzard delivered better than anyone ever expected. EVER!
All I can say to you jealous people is.... /CRY MORE
MMMMMkay... What you guys gotta understand is.....
WoW does NOT have 7+ million subscribers!
(Not that you said there were 7 million subscribers, but most fans use this as an argument on why wow is the best)
They have 7 million customers.......... Please, think for a moment, do you really think there are 7 MILLION WoW accounts active?
They calculate that by anyone who has tried the game, trial accounts, bought accounts, even people in asia who have played the game. (accounts that are banned, compromised, and inactive are counted)
There was a thread about this some months back if anyone remebers.....
Btw im not flaming WoW in any way. Ive been playing off and on since beta. The only reason that I keep playing is probally because of my friends playing.... If it werent for them I would have dumped WoW a long time ago.
I really wish i could travel back in time and play the early days of WoW... When there was no instanced PvP... People would spam for world PvP raid groups and attack towns and cities... There were few 60's per server, raiding endgame was almost non existant... No civilians, no honor, no DKP, just pure WoW fun.
Anyone remember the early days of WoW?