Is PVP with no risk like Poker with no money ?

xrebel · January 2007

I agree the entire 7 pages is a bit silly.

I don't want to play on a hardcore PvP server, but the way the poll was worded... by all means, YES give people the option... what do I care? I'm in favor of giving people as many options as they want.

Faur · January 2007

Didn't read through this thread, but I've had a lot of conversations with anti-pvp people lately and it's sorta ticking me off, so I'll add this.

Some of us enjoy pvp because of the dynamic and thinking opponents and how you can always strive to be "better", but you will never be the "best.

Some of us dislike pvp because they prefer not having to worry about level 200's named XxSEPHIROTHxX pk'ing and verbally harassing them as they're doing the newbie tutorial.

I see nothing wrong with having separate games catering to both.

I prefer 100% open pvp where anyone can attack anyone, and I think it's annoying how most games have "consentual" pvp to try and cater to both. It makes pvp tame and unappealing for us who enjoy open pvp, and it invites XxSEPHIROTHxX's to spam duel requests and taunt the peaceful players trying to do quests.

I would love it if more games would dedicate themselves to one or the other, and not do a half-assed both. Let the pve'ers play an awesome pve game, and let the pvp'ers play an awesome pvp game.

And now for the part which might make me sound elitist and/or an asshole.

What ticks me off are anti-pvp elitists who will say something to the effect of "the only people who would want to pvp are teenagers with no life who has something they need to prove on the internet", or "pvp'ers take the game too seriously".

Yes, there are some people like that, but they're hardly the majority. Like I mentioned, I enjoy pvp for the dynamic challenge. No two fights are ever the same. Your opponent is a thinking person, not a predictable script. You can never "max out" in pvp. What is there to achieve once you've beaten the singleplayer campaign in a story-driven RPG, or reached max level in a pve mmo? In pvp you will always be matched.

About pvp'ers taking the game too seriously, I beg to differ quite strongly. Take Lineage 2 for example. I was a class which was innately at a disadvantage in pvp (a warlord, for those who'd know), but I still wouldn't hesitate "going red" if I wanted to kill someone, which involves making me open to be attacked with no penalty and dropping a ton of stuff - including equipped armor and weapons - when I die (some of this has changed now). Yet, if I killed someone making a bad, rude joke about my mother, they would freak completely out saying how *I* am the one with no life, and how I would "enjoy playing L2 alone" because he's quitting as a result of me pk'ing him. Who's the one taking the game too seriously?

CaptainRPG · January 2007

Originally posted by osc8r

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

1. No, insult, but all of sudden your an expert in business now? You have to remember this is the same company who has banned 100,000 people. If they were worried about the minority of players they wouldn't be kicking out griefers and exploiters. Also can justify the reason we should include that minority of people.
It's not business, it's logic. The thread wasn't just relating to WOW either. I am sure there are lot's of Dev's out there that would be happy to have another 1000 players, 10,000, 50,000, 100,000. Exploiters are never good for any game and you can hardly compare the two.

2. This isn't about benefitting customers consider all of our taste in games are different, but meeting the general needs of the characters all while making a profit.
Right. So characters have needs but customers don't?

3. Huh? Eve is a new game and the fact that less players are joining the game is a sign that EO isn't too populate with the masses. My guess is the gameplay is excluding a lot of people from really enjoying
Eve is older than EQ2 which as you stated in your previous argument, players were leaving for "newer games" implying EQ2 was old. Now you are saying that EVE is a new game, yet a game that is newer than eve is old??? Woah their tiger.
I believe it was said that 90k people joined on opening day and the game now has 150k players. You have to remember games are like a revolving door, people are coming in and our. Not everybody who played last year are still playing. What I'm trying to say is, that either more people are leave than they are people joining or people are stay, but less people are joining because that's 70k people that have joined since last year, which is a 20% decrease to the number of people that joined. If the game continues, it'll have 40% decrease by the end of this year and 60% on it's third year. By it's four years, the creator will probably consider shutting it down.
So now your an expert on business and maths it would seem? It's a shame that logic again escapes you.

4. I meant to say good types of pvp, but I guess I made an error.
Oh well, we all do.
Seems we have drifted way off topic and this thread has turned into another popularity contest with WOW as the main entree, therefore, I'm out. Good luck!

Huh?

ginetti · January 2007

Originally posted by Faur

Didn't read through this thread, but I've had a lot of conversations with anti-pvp people lately and it's sorta ticking me off, so I'll add this.

Some of us enjoy pvp because of the dynamic and thinking opponents and how you can always strive to be "better", but you will never be the "best.

Some of us dislike pvp because they prefer not having to worry about level 200's named XxSEPHIROTHxX pk'ing and verbally harassing them as they're doing the newbie tutorial.

I see nothing wrong with having separate games catering to both.

I prefer 100% open pvp where anyone can attack anyone, and I think it's annoying how most games have "consentual" pvp to try and cater to both. It makes pvp tame and unappealing for us who enjoy open pvp, and it invites XxSEPHIROTHxX's to spam duel requests and taunt the peaceful players trying to do quests.

I would love it if more games would dedicate themselves to one or the other, and not do a half-assed both. Let the pve'ers play an awesome pve game, and let the pvp'ers play an awesome pvp game.

And now for the part which might make me sound elitist and/or an asshole.

What ticks me off are anti-pvp elitists who will say something to the effect of "the only people who would want to pvp are teenagers with no life who has something they need to prove on the internet", or "pvp'ers take the game too seriously".

Yes, there are some people like that, but they're hardly the majority. Like I mentioned, I enjoy pvp for the dynamic challenge. No two fights are ever the same. Your opponent is a thinking person, not a predictable script. You can never "max out" in pvp. What is there to achieve once you've beaten the singleplayer campaign in a story-driven RPG, or reached max level in a pve mmo? In pvp you will always be matched.

About pvp'ers taking the game too seriously, I beg to differ quite strongly. Take Lineage 2 for example. I was a class which was innately at a disadvantage in pvp (a warlord, for those who'd know), but I still wouldn't hesitate "going red" if I wanted to kill someone, which involves making me open to be attacked with no penalty and dropping a ton of stuff - including equipped armor and weapons - when I die (some of this has changed now). Yet, if I killed someone making a bad, rude joke about my mother, they would freak completely out saying how *I* am the one with no life, and how I would "enjoy playing L2 alone" because he's quitting as a result of me pk'ing him. Who's the one taking the game too seriously?

Quoted

For

Truth.

Classicstar · January 2007

Originally posted by zensaber

i would only like a hardcore pvp game if the person you killed dropped all his inventory and you could loot him, like in shadowbane, or where thieves could actually steal from players, well like shadowbane. They just need to make a better shadowbane

Darkfall is in the making!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KaptainZerg · January 2007

Originally posted by ginetti
Let's get something out of the way right away; I really enjoy PVP in most games, including MMORPG's.I feel the PVP in games where there is nothing to be gained but bragging rights is like playing poker with mates, but not putting real money at stake. Why would you care about going 'all in' when you have nothing to loose really, and everything to gain.
Not to say this form of PVP is a complete waste of time, but I do feel when there is something at stake (equipment, money, xp etc), the element and entire conflict is heightened to a new level. The tension is that much higher, the anticipation, everything... because no one wants to loose the shirt of their backs...I understand that not everyone likes the idea of having all their nice things looted off their lifeless corpse, that's why I propose each game contain a "Hardcore" PVP server (much like Rappelz, but unfortunately its broken at the moment). Once you create your character, and select said Hardcore server, a message appears, something like: Warning, you are entering a Hardcore Player vs. Player Server, where other players can kill you willingly and loot your items / gold / money etc. You cannot transfer characters to this server or from this server.I for one would probably play 2 characters, my PVP Hardcore character, centred around making other PC's dead while my normal server character would be catered to grouping, Xping, adventuring and exploring.Thanks for reading,Ginetti.

A balanced view on this subject from a sociopathic killer.

J/K. I agree with you. Well put. Ginetti.

A chance to drop items or cash on death is not usually what makes the prospect of a pvp fight exciting or frightening to me because I usually have lots of money to replace what I may lose. For me, the tension in pvp comes from the risk of losing, period. I am not a good loser. However, in a game like Lineage II where the economy is practically run by gold farmers and every rare item costs way too much, the possibility of droping an item does become a factor in deciding whether to fight or escape, depending on the odds of beating my opponent, of course.

ginfress01 · January 2007

As long you're not chaos you can't drop a thing any longer. Which is a shame, its fun to pickup an item and destroy it near the victim or even better it would make bot killing more fun then it is now.

ginetti · January 2007

Looks as though the people behind Vanguard have seen this thread and this poll.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/113586

Can you say, "about friggin' time" ?

Gonna get mah copy today !

VANGUARD:

Takai001 · January 2007

I like poker with no money... It's fun.

ginetti · January 2007

Originally posted by Takai001

I like poker with no money... It's fun.

All that proves is you enjoy PVE or PVP with no penalties or certain restrictions or perhaps boundaries.

Which is perfectly fine.

But there exists those, like myself, who enjoy PVP with a little risk involved.

We too are a market that should be catered for, thats my argument.

Nothing like soloing a quest out in the wilderness to suddenly be attacked by a group, and managing to get away.... hehehe

Speaking of dedicated PVP servers, I've had another thought, why not make a hardcore PVP server where items are much easier to come buy, and you level up a bit faster, or perhaps start at a certain level to begin with, say lvl 10 or something.

There are many sides and possibilities to PVP... and i hear vanguard is good for this, thought i can't play it until feb 15th here in australia, even Direct2Drive won't let me download it due to country restrictions.

CaptainRPG · January 2007

Originally posted by ginetti

Originally posted by Takai001

I like poker with no money... It's fun.

All that proves is you enjoy PVE or PVP with no penalties or certain restrictions or perhaps boundaries.

Which is perfectly fine.

But there exists those, like myself, who enjoy PVP with a little risk involved.

We too are a market that should be catered for, thats my argument.

Nothing like soloing a quest out in the wilderness to suddenly be attacked by a group, and managing to get away.... hehehe

Speaking of dedicated PVP servers, I've had another thought, why not make a hardcore PVP server where items are much easier to come buy, and you level up a bit faster, or perhaps start at a certain level to begin with, say lvl 10 or something.

There are many sides and possibilities to PVP... and i hear vanguard is good for this, thought i can't play it until feb 15th here in australia, even Direct2Drive won't let me download it due to country restrictions.

I agree with Lastera when she said, PvP is about using your class's skill to fullest of your knowledge. PvP is suppose to make you more of PvE players and serves no other purpose, but to remind you of the class you are playing. I can contest since after playing PvP in WoW and GW, I had a better understand of how my class was suppose to be played and how important teamwork is.

Giving rewards or penalizing them for PvP is stupid and it's only for people who want to give more meaning to what they do. You're version of pvp is pointless and the goal behind is an empty one because it serves no other purpose, but to satisfy your ego. Those who agree with you are in it for the same reason. And I don't believe games should cater to your kind since PvP has drastically change from AC and UO.

Just stop babbling, because you sound like the old folks who remind us that the 50s was a good decade to live. Yeah, if believe racism and the fear of communism as an ideal utopia then you must think running with scissors is a good idea. Same applies to your ever extinct idea of PvP. Thank God, that type of PvP is going to die with such games as UO and AC.

Now let's move along people because there nothing to see here, but trolls.

David99 · January 2007

Originally posted by ginetti

There are many sides and possibilities to PVP... and i hear vanguard is good for this, thought i can't play it until feb 15th here in australia, even Direct2Drive won't let me download it due to country restrictions.

You can man, head over to http://www.station.sony.com/

You can do everything you need from there. Buy it, download it, play it. I'm in Australia as well and have being playing for the past two days.

{ Mod Edit }

EndDream · January 2007

yes it is.. its pointless.... Darkfall is a beakon of hope.. hopefully there will be a point to gaming again...

CaptainRPG · February 2007

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by ginetti

There are many sides and possibilities to PVP... and i hear vanguard is good for this, thought i can't play it until feb 15th here in australia, even Direct2Drive won't let me download it due to country restrictions.

You can man, head over to http://www.station.sony.com/

You can do everything you need from there. Buy it, download it, play it. I'm in Australia as well and have being playing for the past two days.

PS Ignore CaptainRPG, he is simply a wow fanboi with the IQ of an 8 year old. If you read any of his posts (including the one above) you would know what I mean.

All you do is trolling these forum attacking people who make opinion different from yours. Your opinion have no substance at ALL and asked to back your claims you can't. So what if I played WoW that's make my opinion any less validate than yours. Stop using ad homenims to support your arguments, it only show how much lack in knowledge in MMORPG and it shows your lack character.

Do us all a favor and find something better else to do than bothering people about nonsense. So far, you've either driven away or frustrated those who have talked with you, which shows how of an little impact you're posts have had on the commuity. And not only have manage to troll in this topic, but you troll in other topics as well.

And could you please stop trying to force your view on others and let other post in peace?

Faur · February 2007

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

I agree with Lastera when she said, PvP is about using your class's skill to fullest of your knowledge. PvP is suppose to make you more of PvE players and serves no other purpose, but to remind you of the class you are playing. I can contest since after playing PvP in WoW and GW, I had a better understand of how my class was suppose to be played and how important teamwork is.

Giving rewards or penalizing them for PvP is stupid and it's only for people who want to give more meaning to what they do. You're version of pvp is pointless and the goal behind is an empty one because it serves no other purpose, but to satisfy your ego. Those who agree with you are in it for the same reason. And I don't believe games should cater to your kind since PvP has drastically change from AC and UO.

Just stop babbling, because you sound like the old folks who remind us that the 50s was a good decade to live. Yeah, if believe racism and the fear of communism as an ideal utopia then you must think running with scissors is a good idea. Same applies to your ever extinct idea of PvP. Thank God, that type of PvP is going to die with such games as UO and AC.

Now let's move along people because there nothing to see here, but trolls.

You are the one saying our opinions are "wrong". Calling us "trolls" and giving us the finger is quite a hypocritic statement.

The reason I came to this thread was because I'm getting tired of opinions exactly like this. Let us enjoy our pvp with risk and reward, with penalty and consequence. I have nothing against people who have everything against pvp, as long as you live and let live.

I feel that pve only games are "empty", "meaningless", and that there is no goal to achieve in them. I don't feel the need to level up because I feel I have no reason to get stronger.

When the game has pvp, it instantly becomes meatier to me, and I want to develop my character so I can start competing with other players.

Yes, I feel PvP with no penalty is tame. Take guild wars for example, it didn't bring me to the edge of my seat like Eve, Shadowbane, or Lineage 2 did. I couldn't think of a reason why I'm fighting the other team and after a week or two I just didn't see the point in it. Again, nothing wrong with people who enjoy that sorta stuff. It's great that you have a pvp model which you can play without risking hours - if not months - of work, for those who feel that's not needed.

"You're version of pvp is pointless and the goal behind is an empty one because it serves no other purpose, but to satisfy your ego. Those who agree with you are in it for the same reason. And I don't believe games should cater to your kind since PvP has drastically change from AC and UO."

I have to try hard not to get worked up by comments like these. Like already mentioned *numerous* times, I enjoy PvP for the dynamic challenge of fighting a *thinking*, *planning*, *human* opponent, who might try to fool me and might have laid out a strategy beforehand which I'm not aware of.

I enjoy PvP with risk and reward since that let's you more or less progress by PvP'ing, and it instantly becomes much more exciting when you have something to gain or lose from it, be it experience points, castles, or your entire ship.

You believe that games shouldn't cater to us, why not? I don't like the fifa sports series, but that doesn't mean I think they should stop making the games. I don't get angry every time a fifa game is released because it didn't cater to me. I don't get angry every time a PvE MMORPG is released, and complain that PvE is stupid and that they need to make it PvP.

There are *tons* of mmo's on the market and more in the making. What's wrong with *some* of them catering *purely* to us pvp'ers, and *some* of them catering *purely* to pve'ers?

And please, stop with the "people only pvp to satisfy their ego". It's incredibly irritating and elitist.

paade · February 2007

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by ginetti

There are many sides and possibilities to PVP... and i hear vanguard is good for this, thought i can't play it until feb 15th here in australia, even Direct2Drive won't let me download it due to country restrictions.

You can man, head over to http://www.station.sony.com/

You can do everything you need from there. Buy it, download it, play it. I'm in Australia as well and have being playing for the past two days.

PS Ignore CaptainRPG, he is simply a wow fanboi with the IQ of an 8 year old. If you read any of his posts (including the one above) you would know what I mean.

All you do is trolling these forum attacking people who make opinion different from yours. Your opinion have no substance at ALL and asked to back your claims you can't. So what if I played WoW that's make my opinion any less validate than yours. Stop using ad homenims to support your arguments, it only show how much lack in knowledge in MMORPG and it shows your lack character.

Do us all a favor and find something better else to do than bothering people about nonsense. So far, you've either driven away or frustrated those who have talked with you, which shows how of an little impact you're posts have had on the commuity. And not only have manage to troll in this topic, but you troll in other topics as well.

And could you please stop trying to force your view on others and let other post in peace? reading through this thread, youre no better.

osc8r · February 2007

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

Giving rewards or penalizing them for PvP is stupid

All you do is trolling these forum attacking people who make opinion different from yours.

Hehe, even if nothing (and i mean NOTHING) else your posts are entertaining.

CaptainRPG · February 2007

Originally posted by Faur You are the one saying our opinions are "wrong". Calling us "trolls" and giving us the finger is quite a hypocritic statement.

The reason I came to this thread was because I'm getting tired of opinions exactly like this. Let us enjoy our pvp with risk and reward, with penalty and consequence. I have nothing against people who have everything against pvp, as long as you live and let live.

I feel that pve only games are "empty", "meaningless", and that there is no goal to achieve in them. I don't feel the need to level up because I feel I have no reason to get stronger.

When the game has pvp, it instantly becomes meatier to me, and I want to develop my character so I can start competing with other players.

Yes, I feel PvP with no penalty is tame. Take guild wars for example, it didn't bring me to the edge of my seat like Eve, Shadowbane, or Lineage 2 did. I couldn't think of a reason why I'm fighting the other team and after a week or two I just didn't see the point in it. Again, nothing wrong with people who enjoy that sorta stuff. It's great that you have a pvp model which you can play without risking hours - if not months - of work, for those who feel that's not needed.

"You're version of pvp is pointless and the goal behind is an empty one because it serves no other purpose, but to satisfy your ego. Those who agree with you are in it for the same reason. And I don't believe games should cater to your kind since PvP has drastically change from AC and UO."

I have to try hard not to get worked up by comments like these. Like already mentioned *numerous* times, I enjoy PvP for the dynamic challenge of fighting a *thinking*, *planning*, *human* opponent, who might try to fool me and might have laid out a strategy beforehand which I'm not aware of.

I enjoy PvP with risk and reward since that let's you more or less progress by PvP'ing, and it instantly becomes much more exciting when you have something to gain or lose from it, be it experience points, castles, or your entire ship.

You believe that games shouldn't cater to us, why not? I don't like the fifa sports series, but that doesn't mean I think they should stop making the games. I don't get angry every time a fifa game is released because it didn't cater to me. I don't get angry every time a PvE MMORPG is released, and complain that PvE is stupid and that they need to make it PvP.

There are *tons* of mmo's on the market and more in the making. What's wrong with *some* of them catering *purely* to us pvp'ers, and *some* of them catering *purely* to pve'ers?

And please, stop with the "people only pvp to satisfy their ego". It's incredibly irritating and elitist.

1. I'm a PvP and PvE person. I PvP and PvE mutually. However, I don't PvP to gain rewards. I think and plan REGARLESS if there is something at stack. I DON'T NEED motivation factor to make me player better. If you need something motivate you to do better than you aren't interest in that aspect of the game in the first place and it does not give that aspect meaning because a reward/penalty is added.

2. PvP penalties or rewards shouldn't be your main motivation, which is why I like today's PvP. Today's PvP is putting skill as an important motivation factor. No longer is our vision clouded by self-doubt or greed. We, as player and sportsman, are playing to enjoy ourselves because the ultimate joy comes when find out what we are made of. PvP looting and PvP penalties discourage this.

3. The only reason you and these guys ask for this type of pvp to be implement is because you guys have hard time adapting to new gameplay. They want companies to go out of their way to put in old aspects from the previous game just so you can enjoy the new games. This reminds me of that Dave Chappelle skit where the crack kept sprinkling crack all his food just so he could enjoy it.

CaptainRPG · February 2007

Originally posted by paade

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by ginetti

There are many sides and possibilities to PVP... and i hear vanguard is good for this, thought i can't play it until feb 15th here in australia, even Direct2Drive won't let me download it due to country restrictions.

You can man, head over to http://www.station.sony.com/

You can do everything you need from there. Buy it, download it, play it. I'm in Australia as well and have being playing for the past two days.

PS Ignore CaptainRPG, he is simply a wow fanboi with the IQ of an 8 year old. If you read any of his posts (including the one above) you would know what I mean.

All you do is trolling these forum attacking people who make opinion different from yours. Your opinion have no substance at ALL and asked to back your claims you can't. So what if I played WoW that's make my opinion any less validate than yours. Stop using ad homenims to support your arguments, it only show how much lack in knowledge in MMORPG and it shows your lack character.

Do us all a favor and find something better else to do than bothering people about nonsense. So far, you've either driven away or frustrated those who have talked with you, which shows how of an little impact you're posts have had on the commuity. And not only have manage to troll in this topic, but you troll in other topics as well.

And could you please stop trying to force your view on others and let other post in peace? reading through this thread, youre no better.

Sorry, but I don't thread to thread flaming people for playing WoW nor do I try to force people to see things "My way." I don't pretend to know anything about MMORPG nor do I use ad homenins to duck arguments. If they insist to troll people and flame with no intention of being civil, I'm just going to start reporting these guys. I'm sick of these guys pressing their views on people like Nazis.

paade · February 2007

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

2. PvP penalties or rewards shouldn't be your main motivation, which is why I like today's PvP. Today's PvP is putting skill as an important motivation factor. No longer is our vision clouded by self-doubt or greed. We, as player and sportsman, are playing to enjoy ourselves because the ultimate joy comes when find out what we are made of. PvP looting and PvP penalties discourage this.

wtf are you raving?? Todays pvp is this: 1. grind your lvl to highest possible 2.grind the leetest items you can find through pve 3. learn the right pattern of button smashing of your class (takes about 5 mins, if you consider this a skill i feel sorry for you) 4. go to arena/instance and pwn every lowbie/newbie you can find.

In todays pvp after doing 1.-3. you are a fucking demi-god to every casual player and even if you happen to lose to another demi-god, no worries, you wont actually lose anything!

Todays pvp is shit and has very little to do with skill, thats a fact.

Once you get rid off leet items and levels, and put penalty/reward system in, you might actually have a good pvp.

CaptainRPG · February 2007

Originally posted by paade

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

2. PvP penalties or rewards shouldn't be your main motivation, which is why I like today's PvP. Today's PvP is putting skill as an important motivation factor. No longer is our vision clouded by self-doubt or greed. We, as player and sportsman, are playing to enjoy ourselves because the ultimate joy comes when find out what we are made of. PvP looting and PvP penalties discourage this.

wtf are you raving?? Todays pvp is this: 1. grind your lvl to highest possible 2.grind the leetest items you can find through pve 3. learn the right pattern of button smashing of your class (takes about 5 mins, if you consider this a skill i feel sorry for you) 4. go to arena/instance and pwn every lowbie/newbie you can find.

In todays pvp after doing 1.-3. you are a fucking demi-god to every casual player and even if you happen to lose to another demi-god, no worries, you wont actually lose anything!

Todays pvp is shit and has very little to do with skill, thats a fact.

Once you get rid off leet items and levels, and put penalty/reward system in, you might actually have a good pvp.

I guess you haven't played Guild Wars.

It's all about Rank and teamwork...pure and simple! I like the PvP with no penalties because if we lose, I don't have to worry about my team leader going APE SHIT because he lost all of his stuff. If we lose, he may lose his cool just a little, but he quickly collects himself and from there we begin to practice a new strategy for the next meeting.

I know for a fact in PvP looting and PvP penalty such calm and collective attitudes rarely exist among the loser. (or don't at all) I highly doubt when you die, you say to yourself, it's okay, I just need more practice. It's more like now I have to start all over again or something to that effect.

paade · February 2007

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

Originally posted by paade

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

2. PvP penalties or rewards shouldn't be your main motivation, which is why I like today's PvP. Today's PvP is putting skill as an important motivation factor. No longer is our vision clouded by self-doubt or greed. We, as player and sportsman, are playing to enjoy ourselves because the ultimate joy comes when find out what we are made of. PvP looting and PvP penalties discourage this.

wtf are you raving?? Todays pvp is this: 1. grind your lvl to highest possible 2.grind the leetest items you can find through pve 3. learn the right pattern of button smashing of your class (takes about 5 mins, if you consider this a skill i feel sorry for you) 4. go to arena/instance and pwn every lowbie/newbie you can find.

In todays pvp after doing 1.-3. you are a fucking demi-god to every casual player and even if you happen to lose to another demi-god, no worries, you wont actually lose anything!

Todays pvp is shit and has very little to do with skill, thats a fact.

Once you get rid off leet items and levels, and put penalty/reward system in, you might actually have a good pvp.

I guess you haven't played Guild Wars.

It's all about Rank and teamwork...pure and simple! I like the PvP with no penalties because if we lose, I don't have to worry about my team leader going APE SHIT because he lost all of his stuff. If we lose, he may lose his cool just a little, but he quickly collects himself and from there we begin to practice a new strategy for the next meeting.

I know for a fact in PvP looting and PvP penalty such calm and collective attitudes rarely exist among the loser. (or don't at all) I highly doubt when you die, you say to yourself, it's okay, I just need more practice. It's more like now I have to start all over again or something to that effect. GW represents todays pvp in MMORPGs? I think not. Someone might also argue that GW is not a real MMORPG.

No, if die in pvp and lose my stuff, im pissed for maybe 5 mins (if anything valuable). But the difference between me and a carebear is that i shruck it off, get new items and seek my revenge. Carebears go to forums and whine that they want their stuff back, that DEVs are morons, that the opponent is h4xx0r, that they will kill the the evil ganker IRL and/or spam the general chat for all eternity.

You cant never get rid off all the whiners, thats true, but creating a game where items dont matter so much helps (makes the penalty easier to accept).

CaptainRPG · February 2007

Originally posted by paade

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

Originally posted by paade

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

2. PvP penalties or rewards shouldn't be your main motivation, which is why I like today's PvP. Today's PvP is putting skill as an important motivation factor. No longer is our vision clouded by self-doubt or greed. We, as player and sportsman, are playing to enjoy ourselves because the ultimate joy comes when find out what we are made of. PvP looting and PvP penalties discourage this.

wtf are you raving?? Todays pvp is this: 1. grind your lvl to highest possible 2.grind the leetest items you can find through pve 3. learn the right pattern of button smashing of your class (takes about 5 mins, if you consider this a skill i feel sorry for you) 4. go to arena/instance and pwn every lowbie/newbie you can find.

In todays pvp after doing 1.-3. you are a fucking demi-god to every casual player and even if you happen to lose to another demi-god, no worries, you wont actually lose anything!

Todays pvp is shit and has very little to do with skill, thats a fact.

Once you get rid off leet items and levels, and put penalty/reward system in, you might actually have a good pvp.

I guess you haven't played Guild Wars.

It's all about Rank and teamwork...pure and simple! I like the PvP with no penalties because if we lose, I don't have to worry about my team leader going APE SHIT because he lost all of his stuff. If we lose, he may lose his cool just a little, but he quickly collects himself and from there we begin to practice a new strategy for the next meeting.

I know for a fact in PvP looting and PvP penalty such calm and collective attitudes rarely exist among the loser. (or don't at all) I highly doubt when you die, you say to yourself, it's okay, I just need more practice. It's more like now I have to start all over again or something to that effect. GW represents todays pvp in MMORPGs? I think not. Someone might also argue that GW is not a real MMORPG.

No, if die in pvp and lose my stuff, im pissed for maybe 5 mins (if anything valuable). But the difference between me and a carebear is that i shruck it off, get new items and seek my revenge. Carebears go to forums and whine that they want their stuff back, that DEVs are morons, that the opponent is h4xx0r, that they will kill the the evil ganker IRL and/or spam the general chat for all eternity.

You cant never get rid off all the whiners, thats true, but creating a game where items dont matter so much helps (makes the penalty easier to accept). 1. Some people will argue that WoW is a flop. Some people will argue that UO is an old game and a good game for ITS time. Who gives a damn WHAT SOME PEOPLE THINK. Those people don't dictate the argument.

2. OMFG!!! JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST!!!

If you can get the same set of items back after being looted, WTF is the point of PvP looting?! If I killed your character and loot him, WTF is the point if you're going to comeback with the exact same gear? Try playing a PvP server with rare high level drops wind PvP looting. Here I am thinking you've played an actual hardcore pvp server, you haven't gotten out of the playpen, yet.

3. If you Dev and you got a million emails from angry players, you would make adjustments to your game too. Try putting yourself in their shoes. If a small group of people always win PvP then less and less people will play. People in just about every game will leave if they have a high losing streak or death streak. They find it pointless to play a game, they can't even enjoy without dying every 10 seconds.

paade · February 2007

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

1. Some people will argue that WoW is a flop. Some people will argue that UO is an old game and a good game for ITS time. Who gives a damn WHAT SOME PEOPLE THINK. Those people don't dictate the argument.

True, however their opinion is just as valid.

2. OMFG!!! JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST!!! If you can get the same set of items back after being looted, WTF is the point of PvP looting?! If I killed your character and loot him, WTF is the point if you're going to comeback with the exact same gear? Try playing a PvP server with rare high level drops wind PvP looting. Here I am thinking you've played an actual hardcore pvp server, you haven't gotten out of the playpen, yet.

Who said items are all the same and matter nothing? I sure as hell didnt. These 4-5 lines are a perfect example of you resolting to baseless assumptions when you run out of anything intelligent to say.

3. If you Dev and you got a million emails from angry players, you would make adjustments to your game too. Try putting yourself in their shoes. If a small group of people always win PvP then less and less people will play. People in just about every game will leave if they have a high losing streak or death streak. They find it pointless to play a game, they can't even enjoy without dying every 10 seconds.

Is there a point somewhere here? Bcause thats exactly what ive been saying, newbies and casuals have very little chance of fighting back in todays pvp, time played=win. I dont think your average joe enjoys getting steamrolled every 10 seconds, with OR without item looting.

CaptainRPG · February 2007

Originally posted by paade

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

1. Some people will argue that WoW is a flop. Some people will argue that UO is an old game and a good game for ITS time. Who gives a damn WHAT SOME PEOPLE THINK. Those people don't dictate the argument.

True, however their opinion is just as valid.

2. OMFG!!! JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST!!! If you can get the same set of items back after being looted, WTF is the point of PvP looting?! If I killed your character and loot him, WTF is the point if you're going to comeback with the exact same gear? Try playing a PvP server with rare high level drops wind PvP looting. Here I am thinking you've played an actual hardcore pvp server, you haven't gotten out of the playpen, yet.

Who said items are all the same and matter nothing? I sure as hell didnt. These 4-5 lines are a perfect example of you resolting to baseless assumptions when you run out of anything intelligent to say.

3. If you Dev and you got a million emails from angry players, you would make adjustments to your game too. Try putting yourself in their shoes. If a small group of people always win PvP then less and less people will play. People in just about every game will leave if they have a high losing streak or death streak. They find it pointless to play a game, they can't even enjoy without dying every 10 seconds.

Is there a point somewhere here? Bcause thats exactly what ive been saying, newbies and casuals have very little chance of fighting back in todays pvp, time played=win. I dont think your average joe enjoys getting steamrolled every 10 seconds, with OR without item looting.

1. Not even valid because they are opinions and the only reason people would result to such childish method is to make their own argument valid. It's what children do to justify their actions or arguments. And if such a person were to press the matter it only shows they are nothing more than trolls who can't back their claims with actual facts.

2. Don't try to duck issue by using ad homenims. It doesn't stop the rest of us from seeing the glaring contradicting in your argument. If you can go get more equipment then PvP looting is pointless. You also showed you're not a hardcore pvper because hardcore pvp, you can't get the equipment as easy. High level armor is suppose to be rare stuff and here you are calling yourself a hardcore player. MFJ!!!

3. No, you seem to have a backwards logic here. In today's pvp, newplayers have a chance to be on the same level as pro whose played for several months because today's pvp revolves around group effort and rock, paper and scissors pvp make up. In past pvp, one class could kick the crap out of all the classes, but in today's pvp, everyone has a fair chance and NEARLY all class have been balanced.

I'm done. I'm really done. If your version of hardcore pvp doesn't involve making high level items a rarity (Like WoW Epic Armor rare) then don't tell us your hardcore players.

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