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Women Gamers and The Power of the Feminine
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Why do people do it outside of gaming? Apart from the perceived anonymity factor, what makes this scenario any different?
Why do people do it outside of gaming? Apart from the perceived anonymity factor, what makes this scenario any different?
Isn't that obvious why people do it outside of gaming? That shouldn't even be a counter arguement. When you were young, When you were hitting on a girl, what was your intention? I'm sure I don't need to fill that in for you.Isn't that obvious why people do it outside of gaming? That shouldn't even be a counter arguement. When you were young, When you were hitting on a girl, what was your intention? I'm sure I don't need to fill that in for you.
Straw man logic.
Now, be the precocious 17 year old boy you seem to be and answer my question with the transparency with which I asked it.
Why do people do it outside of gaming? Apart from the perceived anonymity factor, what makes this scenario any different?
Isn't that obvious why people do it outside of gaming? That shouldn't even be a counter arguement. When you were young, When you were hitting on a girl, what was your intention? I'm sure I don't need to fill that in for you.
Straw man logic.
Now, be the precocious 17 year old boy you seem to be and answer my question with the transparency with which I asked it.
I'm not even going to bother. If you can't see the obvious diffrence between "in a game" and "real life", then I think I'll just be wasting my breath trying to explain.Please read the original post and the blog. Femmes Fatales is not an exclusively woman guild, the emphasis throughout and in my comments have been on the "feminine" and this is defined in the blog. If people dont read the stuff then this thread is likley to "loose its thread"
As for the soft liberal politically correct ideas, offered by such erudite writers, warmly persausive as they maybe ... that is, lets not enforce divisions, separation, between classes, races, genders in MMOs etc etc this is quite plainly naive and over-simplified. Both MMOs and "the real" are saturated with division, difference, hierarchy, inequalities. In some ways MMOs are probably more brutal and separtist than "the real" (whatever that means). Equality is a material and virtual myth. In any case Femmes Fatales are openly and proudly, thoroughly ELITIST. In fact we are proud of being Elitist in our very feminine way. Oh dear what have I said now ..... oh well back to the baking ....
Remember what poor Plato had to say ...The unjust try to get the better of all others, whilst the just try to get the better of the unjust (The Republic)
Ah but we're not just talking about a simple "female" (or feminin) only guild or clan. These are people who, by their very own definitions, want to use that part of themselves as an end to the means, as if it can be justified onto itself.
I'm sorry but it cannot, I'll fight that as fevorently as I would a guy telling me I can't play a game because I'm a girl. In the end it only serves one PURPOSE (
) and that is to seperate.
ALL that being said, I don't have any direct issue with female only guilds, I've even been part of a few myself. But it's always been done in fun and never to alienate ourselves.
There is a difference here and we must recognize that above all else.
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Ah but we're not just talking about a simple "female" (or feminin) only guild or clan. These are people who, by their very own definitions, want to use that part of themselves as an end to the means, as if it can be justified onto itself.
I'm sorry but it cannot, I'll fight that as fevorently as I would a guy telling me I can't play a game because I'm a girl. In the end it only serves one PURPOSE (
) and that is to seperate.
ALL that being said, I don't have any direct issue with female only guilds, I've even been part of a few myself. But it's always been done in fun and never to alienate ourselves.
There is a difference here and we must recognize that above all else.
Well in that case I agree with you completely.
I can see it - I asked *you* what *you* think the difference is. Now, answer. Don't troll, don't post spin, don't evade - just answer it. What is this difference, according to you?
I can see it - I asked *you* what *you* think the difference is. Now, answer. Don't troll, don't post spin, don't evade - just answer it. What is this difference, according to you?
As I said, I'm not even going to bother. I'm not going to write an entire article of something that is SO incredibly obvious. Its an incredible waste of time. It like explaining why 1 + 1 is 2.Please read the original post and the blog. Femmes Fatales is not an exclusively woman guild, the emphasis throughout and in my comments have been on the "feminine" and this is defined in the blog. If people dont read the stuff then this thread is likley to "loose its thread"
As for the soft liberal politically correct ideas, offered by such erudite writers, warmly persausive as they maybe ... that is, lets not enforce divisions, separation, between classes, races, genders in MMOs etc etc this is quite plainly naive and over-simplified. Both MMOs and "the real" are saturated with division, difference, hierarchy, inequalities. In some ways MMOs are probably more brutal and separtist than "the real" (whatever that means). Equality is a material and virtual myth. In any case Femmes Fatales are openly and proudly, thoroughly ELITIST. In fact we are proud of being Elitist in our very feminine way. Oh dear what have I said now ..... oh well back to the baking ....
I didn't mean it to sound like I was talknig about the Femme Fatales specificaly. I meant it as a concept and not about any guild that I know off. My mistake.
In case any need further evidence that these "things" should be thrown, slung and hung out to dry?
This would it.
See how easily a point of view can be thrown asside? We are naive, don't you know? We don't understand the world, don't you get it? We're all idiots compared to them, THEY and only THEY understand "The Real". It is ignorance at it's finnest ladies and gents, sit back in awe!.
The only consolidation we can take? Do not mistake errogance and elitism for power nor conviction. They have nothing they do not claim to own, the only respect they have is that which they tell each other they deserve.
That is all.
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As I said, I'm not even going to bother. I'm not going to write an entire article of something that is SO incredibly obvious. Its an incredible waste of time. It like explaining why 1 + 1 is 2.
Now you know how I feel interacting with a kid like you. That's right, you are a kid, with a kid's experiences and a kid's point-of-view. Time will cure most of that, and I'm afraid you'll have to take my word on that one. Argue it as much as you want; it's an inescapable fact.
I'm not patronising you or belittling you, Gameloading, I'm being honest - but I'm certain you won't see it that way. You are a bright guy, but your reach does exceed your grasp on occcasion.
But, after being online for 16-18 years like I have, I no longer perceive any real difference between computer-based interaction and "real-life" interaction. To me, there is no difference apart from the medium involved and a spurious feeling of anonymity.
"Hitting" on someone in-game to me is no different to what goes on at a nightclub or some other social venue, physical or virtual - I met my current wife online on ICQ over 9 years ago and I'll be married to her 9 years this July. I moved from one continent to another to be with her.
So, to me, there is no real difference, and I've had far, far too many experiences to be told blithely that there is.
Yes, hitting on people for the sheer sake that the target "may" be of the opposite sex is ridiculous, but the fact that you're playing a MMO should be no barrier to love or a good time if it leads in that direction. Some people communicate better via a keyboard than they do tete-a-tete, for a variety of reasons.
For the benefit of this topic:
I'm too old to even consider the reality of girl gamers to be a legitimate issue. They exist and oh well. Good on them. It's a total non-issue. Shame some immature people see fit to still make it one.
things to remember:
THIS IS CALLED ROLE PLAYING GAME...
So playing with female char is just the main part of role playing.
Then there is acting,.. having pms,... buying a tons of jewelry and lingerie.
But the main thing about these games is role playing,...
------
Take Care & Godspeed,
- Thundercall, www.thundercall.dk
- The C4 Group, www.c4-group.dk
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Do I ever sleep?
"Hitting" on someone in-game to me is no different to what goes on at a nightclub or some other social venue, physical or virtual - I met my current wife online on ICQ over 9 years ago and I'll be married to her 9 years this July. I moved from one continent to another to be with her.
Parfait, perfect my sentiments exactly. Well said Ulujain. Ermmm did you want to join Femmes Fatales Ulujian? lol ... hehe
But alas we dont have 16-18 years gaming experience, after all we are JUST girls .....
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Do I ever sleep?
yes, that is true,... that was the main reason that i stopped playing mmorpg,... and i started playing singleplayer games with story-lines,... just to get a little break
------
Take Care & Godspeed,
- Thundercall, www.thundercall.dk
- The C4 Group, www.c4-group.dk
I have no objections to role-playing, however, people's emotions are fragile and delicate. To create a guild which appears to have plans to feed on the weak and the needy, in terms of intimacy/affection/attention, seems wrong. Partially because of mere moral standards, but perhaps also because if the tables were turned, it would be a mere travesty. It is unjust that it is acceptable for female gamers to "seduce" players for what they seek, yet it is despicable and degrading that males who "seduce" women are frowned upon.
Also, it would not appear to me this suggestion was as noble as I initially deemed it. You support the feminine style of game play, yet ( correct me if I'm mistaken) you would cast out the "ugly".
It appears to me, after re-reading the blog and previous posts, that this is a guild that merely desires to run around in frilly costumes, teasing male players that they are not female. Is this assertion correct?
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
oh sorry I was in a bit of a rush the cakes were burning in the oven ... I will correct them dear ... pardon me ...
Gotta luv it when the Alpha Male steps in ... I shall respond fully to your points in a little while. Need to dispose of the apron etc.
Why a woman's guild?
What for? Are u going to tell us ( every1 in mmorpg.com ) that woman's are discrmintaed in online games?
Its like a male guild only, whats that?
"For the male domination"? its ok if you girls want to be alone in ur guild, where no man keeps flirting with you, but for me... i dont know, the idea just its not right. I've never seen a "male-online guild" in my life, and for me creating that kind of guild is creating a war of whos better.
Overrated, not the girls, but the effect of playing a girl.
I am a proffessionnal DECOY, or mangina to other haha! Now, personnally I "always" play girls toons, because...well, I don't like to play a toon which I feel is humping me and isn't attractive, and since I hit JUMP a lot...girl toons all the way. Sometimes I say I am a guy, sometimes I don't, depend, if I think that it is a moron who is actually trying to hit on me, I will let's him waste his energies, to save a damsel from THAT pitiful (I have no doubts that girls who actually seek these geeks will find them nonetheless, they are rather, insistent in their pitifulness).
Now, other players usually have a nicer initial reaction toward girls than toward guys. However, the "progression chart" on the social layer is crippled at best. I have seen peoples that outright dismiss whatever you say and then do the things the way they see fit, a little like if they assume you will accept their leadership! Haha, quite funny indeed.
Again, to a girl; peoples might have a better initial faction, but that faction is hard to improve and it is capped, unless you involve in doubtful behaviors, which I never do, so I can't say. The guys in general often have pre-concept ideas, they think girls are usually "video-dumb". I am sure some girls playing videos games would be, because they are not gamers they are just playing the game because it is filled with guys, tons of geeks, but tons of guys anyway; these as they are not gamers might effectively be "video-dumbs" and in need of a rescue geeks-squad. However, I think the overall majority of girls playing games are not "video-dumbs", haha, they can kick my ass equally!* Yet, the MOST VISIBLE (aka, girls not plating a male character, or not saying they are male in RL to start with, and then focusing a LOT on seeking guys); well girls SEEKING guys in video-games, are likely to be "video-dumbs", they are there for "social reasons" exclusively. The voice system is screwing girls who want to go unoticed and just play the damn game, because as soon as the pitiful geek will hear a girl voice...voice systems are a blessing to girls seeking social stuff, but to gaming-girls, a cursed.
And...do you know how mean a girl can be to another girl? I can escape that, but not before it start hurting, like a lot! I go like...err I am a guy who prefer to look at a girl butt than at a barbarian male butt... video-game efficient, etc. etc. etc.; I dunno if they fall for it, but if they don't they know they are dealing with a guy, which mean that the means factor decrease...a LOT.
The "Beshaba" syndrom I guess.
(The unequalled PPG look)
* Especially that I am playing a girl toon, which seem geek on every layer, that usually draw the ire of some girls, especially if they don't know I am a guy and think I am a geeky girl, haha, somehow, their hatred lower a LOT if they realize, oh it is a guy.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Ah yes, badly laid sarcasm followed by less than affable wit, the last vestibules of someone attempting to scratch out a self-ceremonious point.
You, are a fraud. More to the point, you are a fake and a fraud.
You are a bump on the road to be passed by every women of the future who wishes to have self dignity and self worth. You are an archaic melange of uselessness that we sit back and laugh at and tell stories about.
For real women, confident women, self assured women, those of us that exude and implore feminism from the inside and outwards, for women who believe we are people and are not solely defined by our gender, you are nothing, no one. You are weak, naive and most of all, lost.
I would pitty you if it was not so terribly wasted.
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Ah yes, badly laid sarcasm followed by less than affable wit, the last vestibules of someone attempting to scratch out a self-ceremonious point.
You, are a fraud. More to the point, you are a fake and a fraud.
You are a bump on the road to be passed by every women of the future who wishes to have self dignity and self worth. You are an archaic melange of uselessness that we sit back and laugh at and tell stories about.
For real women, confident women, self assured women, those of us that exude and implore feminism from the inside and outwards, for women who believe we are people and are not solely defined by our gender, you are nothing, no one. You are weak, naive and most of all, lost.
I would pitty you if it was not so terribly wasted.
what are you? a machine?...
"for women who believe we are people".... and people can't say sorry ?
...but enough about that. that is off topic.
soylent green is people...
------
Take Care & Godspeed,
- Thundercall, www.thundercall.dk
- The C4 Group, www.c4-group.dk
It is with some trepidation and slight unease that I respond to your poignant remarks. Indeed it makes me feel slightly faint and queasy at the thought you reading my words. I sense you will flatten and overcome me with your sharp perceptions and telling points. Indeed, I feel that if I make the slightest mistake you will wish to correct me. As you rightly point out people's emotions are fragile and delicate. Please be gentle with me like a true Alpha male. Alternatively I know must be resolute and stand my corner. Otherwise I would be letting down other "female gamers". Indeed, I must be a brave woman and exercise my democratic rights of free speech. After all its a "free world" of equality and justice.
If I may be so bold I shall try to answer the points you have quite appropriately raised. I have to admit that we do have a tendency to "run around in frilly costumes" and we do have an inclination to tease. The frilly bit can be something of a disadvantage because sometimes the more austere, shaped and sculptured look has distinct benefits. For myself I prefer to "run around" in tight fitting costumes because they permit me to unleash my weapon in an instant (no pun intended).
You are right to say we would cast out the ugly. We simply don't care for them. God forbid glamour and beauty must reign supreme. I say let us proclaim the Burlesque ! Pardon me Captain Cymdai I was temporarily distracted. Anyways, back to the point Orcs are horrid, dwarves give us a distinct sense of eunuchism (not that I have ever examined them so closely), necros are unganely and tend to have poor gaits, and the Mids in DAoC could not be toilet trained. The Hibs were a little better but tended to urinate in the woods. Of course, us girls didn't like this because it killed the pretty flowers and foliage. So we have a clear policy "No Ugliness Allowed". In "real life" (whatever that means) we try to recruit beautiful people. It's nicer having a sandwich with a pretty person than an ugly person, and in any case I have noticed that ugly people tend to scoff their food. A most unseemly habit in my opinion. So we seek intellect, refinement and large doses of culture in Femmes Fatales You might fairly (I know this is an important concept for you Captain) describe us as "cultural elitists". When people apply to join they are subject to all kinds of tests. And you can assume Captain Cymdai that we don't suffer fools gladly.
Captain I am also afraid to say that "we do feed off the weak", but mostly we find that they have very little to offer. So in fact there is little feeding available to us. Much more the thrill in toppling an Alpha Male, like yourself, it gives one much more of a tingle of excitement. If we can catch you out alone in rvr frontiers we tend to mess around a bit before the final kill. Sometimes we simply refuse to kill you. That is bad for an Alpha male cos they like an honourable death.
And now my Captain I must turn to the devastating critique you subjected me to about things being "plainly wrong". Well, it is important to note that we do not adopt a universalistic view of morality. In fact all the women in Femmes Fatales are moral relativists. We dont have much time for Kant and his categorical imperative or even for the great J.S. Mill with his soppy utilitarianism. Bah the "greatest good for the greatest number" what nonsense. No Captain, we make moral judgements according to the feminine principle. As you know from your own experience this can be slightly chaotic at times. I won't mention the exact times because some of our younger readers will be perplexed. But the point is we don't accept a simple black and white definition of what is wrong or right. We think that context counts. Sometimes this is right and sometimes that very same thing is plain wrong. We also feel that we are "just" rather than "unjust" in our relations to people. For example, we enjoy men going shopping for us, or crafting us nice shiny armour, especially if it looks pretty. I guess the closest definition one could offer of our morality is that we attempt to go beyond conventional notions of good and evil and imagine a world outside of the Judaeo Christian frame. Perhaps we are Pagans?
Well ... pardon my diatribe but I did wish to address all your points. Or perhaps I was bored. And honestly Captain I am not trying to seduce you ....