My personal belief is that the title of marriage, and the word marriage, refers to the union of one man and one woman and that the word properly belongs to the heterosexual community. I base this on the biological fact of sexual reproduction and thousands of years of tradition and the biological family as the basis for my opinion. I also include non-reproducing heterosexuals as being "grandfathered" into this group through tradition.
If we open up the definition of marriage to include same sex marriage then why limit it to two people? Why not three, four, or five people. Why not let people marry thier pets? After all, your cat is much more likely to make a life long commitment to you than a human will and can be trusted to be more loyal and respectful of the relationship. I feel that the trem marriage belongs to the heterosexual community and is defined to recognize our biological roots.
If we allow same sex marriages, God knows what the next request will be in the future. It has to stop!! The people of Mass. will make the right decision.
Again, that is still not a good reason to ban gay marriage. It has ZERO effect on you, and thats that. They are not allowed to marry, because YOU, a heterosexual, doesn't agree with it. Do you smoke? I don't smoke. tons of other people don't smoke. Lets pretend the majority of people don't smoke. How about we, the non-smokers, all vote that smoking should be banned. even though it has zero effect on us (on some places it will, but thats not the point),You, as a smoker (if you do), would be damn pissed, I can tell you that.
1. The introduction of legalized gay marriages will lead inexorably to polygamy and other alternatives to one-man, one-woman unions.
2. The family will consist of little more than someone's interpretation of "rights."
How about group marriage, or marriage between relatives, or marriage between adults and children? How about marriage between a man and his donkey? Anything allegedly linked to "civil rights" will be doable. The legal underpinnings for marriage will have been destroyed.
3. After marriages have been redefined, divorces will be obtained instantly, will not involve a court, and will take on the status of a driver's license or a hunting permit. With the family out of the way, all rights and privileges of marriage will accrue to gay and lesbian partners without the legal entanglements and commitments heretofore associated with it.
4. With the legalization of homosexual marriage, every public school in the nation will be required to teach that this perversion is the moral equivalent of traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Textbooks, even in conservative states, will have to depict man/man and woman/woman relationships, and stories written for children as young as elementary school, or even kindergarten, will have to give equal space to homosexuals.
5. Courts will not be able to favor a traditional family involving one man and one woman over a homosexual couple in matters of adoption. Children will be placed in homes with parents representing only one sex on an equal basis with those having a mom and a dad. The prospect of fatherless and motherless children will not be considered in the evaluation of eligibility. It will be the law.
6. Foster-care parents will be required to undergo "sensitivity training" to rid themselves of bias in favor of traditional marriage, and will have to affirm homosexuality in children and teens.
7. How about the impact on Social Security if there are millions of new dependents that will be entitled to survivor benefits? It will amount to billions of dollars on an already overburdened system. And how about the cost to American businesses? Unproductive costs mean fewer jobs for those who need them. Are state and municipal governments to be required to raise taxes substantially to provide health insurance and other benefits to millions of new "spouses and other dependents"?
The ramifications of allowing this is unmeasurable. Sorry, I just cant fathom the thought of a bill passing to allow this. It,s just not right. Congress will never let this happen, never!! Mass. tried and it is blowing up in their face. The people will not accept it.
Half of what you post are assumptions, and the other half are related to a complete diffrent subject, and is nothing that can't be fixed with changes added to the law. Also, Children in schools don't have to make room for homosexual textbooks, where did you get that assumption from? We don't have that over here, and we were the first to allow homosexual marriage. Instead of making blind assumptions, It might be better to look at countries who are more advanced when it comes to tolerance then America, such as the Netherlands or Canada.
And for what? I still havent seen anyone give one good reason why gay marriage should be banned.
Kai
You know as well as I do Kai that they don't have one. It's called 'Homophobic Hypocrisy".
By this I mean:
Originally posted by MMO_Man
Because to me, just thinking of two men doing the "stinky brown eye dance" is just as sick as beatiality.
yet these same homophobic bigots are more than happy to do the one-hand-tango to girl on girl porn on a lonely Friday night.
I challenge you, MMO_Man and the original poster, to claim you're disgusted by and never watch girl + girl porn and keep an honest, straight face, swearing to your God as you say it.
Relationships often lead to marriage, and as you believe there can be no gay marriage, therefore by default gay relationships should be banned too? Or wait, they can have relationships, but cannot consecrate- wait... Hang on, what DO you believe?
I can only guess that these same 'Religious Right' types (I use the term loosely in reference to their use of God in a lot of their gay-hate posts) also think Black Americans should still be slaves and women shouldn't be allowed to vote. One can only hope you and your 1940s mindsets will move into the current century before we reach the next one.
The thing I do find most humorous about all of this (and I have every right to say it seeing as your post was started out of pure hatred) is that the original poster's avatar makes him look like he's just stepped out of the Blue Oyster in a Police Academy movie (a gay bar, in case you're too young to have witnessed the cinematic gold that is Police Academy...). I guess it's hard to tell from a small pic, but you look like you belong to the club you're trying to abolish.
Originally posted by upallnight
I'm starting to see your side of this whole thing Freethinker. I can see now how the separate but equal historical template is attempting to be applied on me and other homosexuals now. I honestly thought that people wouldn't be opposed to civil unions as a compromise to marriage. But I don't think they care enough about me and other gays to want us to have anything.
I'm going through a really big change as far as my view of the world. I used to think there were a lot of good people that cared about others. But lately I don't know that so much.
Upallnight, the comment above was of course meant as irony and humour, and not a dig at your lifechoice.
There's really no way to give you a positive perspective on this, which I guess you are seeing yourself. These people hate with such blind passion that they themselves most probably don't understand and most definitely don't want to explore.
Just as they'd sign a petition to murder every Muslim because, again, they just have no idea, do not and do not want to understand. They are no doubt happy to go on believing every Muslim in the Middle East has a rifle pointed at an American soldier, and every Muslim in American has a bomb under their bed. Because Fox tells them it's so.
I feel for you man, I really do. We're around the same age, I think we've seen enough of life to realise that things most probably aren't going to get a lot better anytime soon.
I know it's probably far fetched and perhaps inconceivable, but if I was living in your country, and was myself a gay, I honestly think I'd be looking at ways to go live in another country.
For all this "Land of the Free" bullshit that gets thrown around, I cannot believe how far America actually seems from it.
I wish you luck on your search for peace.
Sadly, there will be no peace while bigots like the OP and MMO_Man live on, due to their complete and irrational hatred of something they are not willing to challenge themselves to understand.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush. Oh. My. God.
If you can't add anything to this discussion, then go troll somewhere else mmo_man, your annoying.. Also, for your information, I'm not a homosexual myself.
Again, that is still not a good reason to ban gay marriage. It has ZERO effect on you, and thats that. They are not allowed to marry, because YOU, a heterosexual, doesn't agree with it. Do you smoke? I don't smoke. tons of other people don't smoke. Lets pretend the majority of people don't smoke. How about we, the non-smokers, all vote that smoking should be banned. even though it has zero effect on us (on some places it will, but thats not the point),You, as a smoker (if you do), would be damn pissed, I can tell you that.
....
Well fuck. We've pretty much already gone and banned smoking in everywhere but the home. We're way ahead of you over here in America.
Half of what you post are assumptions, and the other half are related to a complete diffrent subject, and is nothing that can't be fixed with changes added to the law. Also, Children in schools don't have to make room for homosexual textbooks, where did you get that assumption from? We don't have that over here, and we were the first to allow homosexual marriage. Instead of making blind assumptions, It might be better to look at countries who are more advanced when it comes to tolerance then America, such as the Netherlands or Canada.
Gameloading, you already said that gay marriage is legal in the Netherlands so stop arguing and go marry your boyfriend. Please post the wedding picture for us to see. If you can't add anything to this discussion, then go troll somewhere else, your annoying.. Also, for your information, I'm not a homosexual myself. I will post as I please..thank you very much. Ban gay marriage!
Half of what you post are assumptions, and the other half are related to a complete diffrent subject, and is nothing that can't be fixed with changes added to the law. Also, Children in schools don't have to make room for homosexual textbooks, where did you get that assumption from? We don't have that over here, and we were the first to allow homosexual marriage. Instead of making blind assumptions, It might be better to look at countries who are more advanced when it comes to tolerance then America, such as the Netherlands or Canada.
Gameloading, you already said that gay marriage is legal in the Netherlands so stop arguing and go marry your boyfriend. Please post the wedding picture for us to see. If you can't add anything to this discussion, then go troll somewhere else, your annoying.. Also, for your information, I'm not a homosexual myself. I will post as I please..thank you very much. Ban gay marriage! Fine, I'll just use the report feature then. Report for what? C'mon now don't be a crybaby
The numbers for 2005 are in, and the Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrate has done it again, shooting up a striking 2.5 percentage points. That makes nine consecutive years of average two-percentage-point increases in the Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrate, a rise unmatched by any country in Western Europe during the same period. Ever since the Dutch passed registered partnerships in 1997, followed by formal same-sex marriage in 2000, their out-of-wedlock birthrate has been moving up at a striking clip. That fact has created a serious problem for advocates of same-sex marriage. (For a visual on this, see the chart in “Going Dutch?” and imagine two further years of two-percentage point increases in 2004 and 2005.
n the last decade, only Eastern Europe has seen an increase in out-of-wedlock birthrates comparable to the Netherlands (even there, only Bulgaria’s rates are rising faster than the Netherlands’). Demographers explain the stunning increase in Eastern Europe’s out-of-wedlock birthrates by pointing to the economic and cultural traumas set off by the collapse of Communism. How striking that a prosperous country like the Netherlands should experience a spike in out-of-wedlock birthrates matched only by a region recovering from the collapse of its entire social system.
Once marriage stops being about binding mothers and fathers together for the sake of the children they create, the need to get married gradually disappears. That’s why I’ve argued that the successful campaign for same-sex marriage led to the spike in Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrates. A preliminary spike between 1994 and 1995 was likely influenced by this long public debate, even before formal passage of registered partnerships in 1997.
All indications are that the Dutch case is a causal smoking gun for gay marriage’s negative effects. Although the matter is fair game for continued debate, no one has yet offered a convincing alternative explanation, or even fully confronted the arguments already on the table. At a bare minimum, the rapid and ongoing deterioration of Dutch marriage shows that the “conservative case” for same-sex marriage has been proven wrong in the Netherlands. Convince the public that marriage is not about parenthood, and increasingly parents simply stop getting married.
I say let the gays have legal marriage. This is a minor, minor, minor issue and not worth a fight that they will win in time anyway.
Far more important is the fight to preserve 2nd Amendment freedoms and to oppose restrictive gun control legislation on every front. Since gays lean mostly in the Leftist camp because of right-wing discrimination, we lose their valuable votes on more important issues such as fighting gun control.
Give them legalized gay marriage and swing their votes over to the Right.
I love the way MMO-MAN has atributed to single parentage to gay marrage and presented it like a disease epademic tells you a lot about that guys sexuality
The numbers for 2005 are in, and the Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrate has done it again, shooting up a striking 2.5 percentage points. That makes nine consecutive years of average two-percentage-point increases in the Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrate, a rise unmatched by any country in Western Europe during the same period. Ever since the Dutch passed registered partnerships in 1997, followed by formal same-sex marriage in 2000, their out-of-wedlock birthrate has been moving up at a striking clip. That fact has created a serious problem for advocates of same-sex marriage. (For a visual on this, see the chart in “Going Dutch?” and imagine two further years of two-percentage point increases in 2004 and 2005.
n the last decade, only Eastern Europe has seen an increase in out-of-wedlock birthrates comparable to the Netherlands (even there, only Bulgaria’s rates are rising faster than the Netherlands’). Demographers explain the stunning increase in Eastern Europe’s out-of-wedlock birthrates by pointing to the economic and cultural traumas set off by the collapse of Communism. How striking that a prosperous country like the Netherlands should experience a spike in out-of-wedlock birthrates matched only by a region recovering from the collapse of its entire social system.
Once marriage stops being about binding mothers and fathers together for the sake of the children they create, the need to get married gradually disappears. That’s why I’ve argued that the successful campaign for same-sex marriage led to the spike in Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrates. A preliminary spike between 1994 and 1995 was likely influenced by this long public debate, even before formal passage of registered partnerships in 1997.
All indications are that the Dutch case is a causal smoking gun for gay marriage’s negative effects. Although the matter is fair game for continued debate, no one has yet offered a convincing alternative explanation, or even fully confronted the arguments already on the table. At a bare minimum, the rapid and ongoing deterioration of Dutch marriage shows that the “conservative case” for same-sex marriage has been proven wrong in the Netherlands. Convince the public that marriage is not about parenthood, and increasingly parents simply stop getting married.
Notice that the entire article is based on mere assumptions, not once did he bring any hard or convincing facts to the table that this is indeed the result of gay marriage. Obviously something is going on, but, as is said in this article http://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/issues/dueling.html
"Although there is as yet no definitive scientific evidence linking the campaign for the legalization of same-sex marriage to the decline of marriage itself, there are reasons to believe such a link exis"
I say let the gays have legal marriage. This is a minor, minor, minor issue and not worth a fight that they will win in time anyway.
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
I say let the gays have legal marriage. This is a minor, minor, minor issue and not worth a fight that they will win in time anyway.
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Multi partner marriage is something diffrent.
Your opinion is this
l = stop sign, no further.
Male - female Marriage ------l ----> Gay marriage ----------> multi partner marriage
Here is a silly idea.
Male - female marriage -----------> Gay Marriage ------l ----> Multi partner marriage
By your arguement, I say we might as well remove marriage all together, because hey, you let a male and female people marry, next they are going to let multi parners marriage as well!
I am very curious to know something though Outfctrl...
If your 25 year old son, that you have raised and loved and spent a lot of time with, walked into the house and said "Dad, meet Luke. We're in love, I'm gay, and we're going to try and start a family", what would you do and/or say?
This is your son that you've cared for for 25 years and love dearly.
What would your reaction be?
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush. Oh. My. God.
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue. The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless. Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
Says the guy in the Village People outfit.
You look like a gay biker.
Just an observation.
lol, that made me laugh, you know hes right, outfctrl.
I say let the gays have legal marriage. This is a minor, minor, minor issue and not worth a fight that they will win in time anyway.
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
I agree completely. Part of what marriage is about is Tradition. Marriage has always been between 1 man and 1 woman. Anything else is breaking the tradition. It's about more than just legal status and so forth. Changing the tradition of marriage will make marriage less meaningful. If anyone can get married to anyone, then marriage doesn't matter anymore, and that's not something I will stand for.
Can't gay people just be happy with Civil Unions? It gives you the same legal status without ruining the tradition of marriage.
I just wish they'd let us have a vote up here in Canada, we didn't get any say in the matter and I'd feel pretty safe saying that most Canadians oppose gay marriage as well.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue. The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless. Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
Let me ask you guys something very seriously. From what I can tell the major sentiment is to ban all gay marriage. Correct? In this country we have one right, that comes to mind, Freedom of Religion. Its our first amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
There is actually a few relgions where gay marriage is perfectly legal. They are of course off shoots of christian religions. I dont like them. But they are religions none the less.
So by banning gay marriage your prohibiting the free exercise of one's religion, if they are a member of said religion. So here is my question. Are you guys actually suggesting that the government should stick their nose into religons? Are you saying we should lose yet one more right we have?
And for what? I still havent seen anyone give one good reason why gay marriage should be banned.
Kai
Really thats great... so does that mean if I belong to a religion that practices cannibalism or murder then the constitution will protect me?!?!?!
YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
I say let the gays have legal marriage. This is a minor, minor, minor issue and not worth a fight that they will win in time anyway.
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
I agree completely. Part of what marriage is about is Tradition. Marriage has always been between 1 man and 1 woman. Anything else is breaking the tradition. It's about more than just legal status and so forth. Changing the tradition of marriage will make marriage less meaningful. If anyone can get married to anyone, then marriage doesn't matter anymore, and that's not something I will stand for.
Can't gay people just be happy with Civil Unions? It gives you the same legal status without ruining the tradition of marriage.
I just wish they'd let us have a vote up here in Canada, we didn't get any say in the matter and I'd feel pretty safe saying that most Canadians oppose gay marriage as well.
That is truly beautiful. Your marriage only has meaning if you exclude other people from marrying. Only one group can marry (the one which you are obviously part of), while the other group can not (of which your not part of), because if the other group would be allowed to marry, then those poor, married couples would no longer feel that they are special.
I am very curious to know something though Outfctrl...
If your 25 year old son, that you have raised and loved and spent a lot of time with, walked into the house and said "Dad, meet Luke. We're in love, I'm gay, and we're going to try and start a family", what would you do and/or say?
This is your son that you've cared for for 25 years and love dearly.
What would your reaction be?
First of all, that wouldnt happen because he has more grlfriends then anyone can imagine.
Second, he wouldnt even think about telling me that.
Third, If he did, then I would say " If thats your choice, so be it" I wouldnt love him any less. That still doesnt change my view on this subject. Not one iota. I am against it and I will stay against it, no matter what happens in my life.
So, my little gnome friend. You can hop around and say what you want and squeal your obnoxious gnome laugh. I have a perfect place for you on my motorcycle...........................up the exhaust pipe where the waste comes out.
Comments
If we open up the definition of marriage to include same sex marriage then why limit it to two people? Why not three, four, or five people. Why not let people marry thier pets? After all, your cat is much more likely to make a life long commitment to you than a human will and can be trusted to be more loyal and respectful of the relationship. I feel that the trem marriage belongs to the heterosexual community and is defined to recognize our biological roots.
If we allow same sex marriages, God knows what the next request will be in the future. It has to stop!! The people of Mass. will make the right decision.
1. The introduction of legalized gay marriages will lead inexorably to polygamy and other alternatives to one-man, one-woman unions.
2. The family will consist of little more than someone's interpretation of "rights."
How about group marriage, or marriage between relatives, or marriage between adults and children? How about marriage between a man and his donkey? Anything allegedly linked to "civil rights" will be doable. The legal underpinnings for marriage will have been destroyed.
3. After marriages have been redefined, divorces will be obtained instantly, will not involve a court, and will take on the status of a driver's license or a hunting permit. With the family out of the way, all rights and privileges of marriage will accrue to gay and lesbian partners without the legal entanglements and commitments heretofore associated with it.
4. With the legalization of homosexual marriage, every public school in the nation will be required to teach that this perversion is the moral equivalent of traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Textbooks, even in conservative states, will have to depict man/man and woman/woman relationships, and stories written for children as young as elementary school, or even kindergarten, will have to give equal space to homosexuals.
5. Courts will not be able to favor a traditional family involving one man and one woman over a homosexual couple in matters of adoption. Children will be placed in homes with parents representing only one sex on an equal basis with those having a mom and a dad. The prospect of fatherless and motherless children will not be considered in the evaluation of eligibility. It will be the law.
6. Foster-care parents will be required to undergo "sensitivity training" to rid themselves of bias in favor of traditional marriage, and will have to affirm homosexuality in children and teens.
7. How about the impact on Social Security if there are millions of new dependents that will be entitled to survivor benefits? It will amount to billions of dollars on an already overburdened system. And how about the cost to American businesses? Unproductive costs mean fewer jobs for those who need them. Are state and municipal governments to be required to raise taxes substantially to provide health insurance and other benefits to millions of new "spouses and other dependents"?
The ramifications of allowing this is unmeasurable. Sorry, I just cant fathom the thought of a bill passing to allow this. It,s just not right. Congress will never let this happen, never!! Mass. tried and it is blowing up in their face. The people will not accept it.
By this I mean: yet these same homophobic bigots are more than happy to do the one-hand-tango to girl on girl porn on a lonely Friday night.
I challenge you, MMO_Man and the original poster, to claim you're disgusted by and never watch girl + girl porn and keep an honest, straight face, swearing to your God as you say it.
Relationships often lead to marriage, and as you believe there can be no gay marriage, therefore by default gay relationships should be banned too? Or wait, they can have relationships, but cannot consecrate- wait... Hang on, what DO you believe?
I can only guess that these same 'Religious Right' types (I use the term loosely in reference to their use of God in a lot of their gay-hate posts) also think Black Americans should still be slaves and women shouldn't be allowed to vote. One can only hope you and your 1940s mindsets will move into the current century before we reach the next one.
The thing I do find most humorous about all of this (and I have every right to say it seeing as your post was started out of pure hatred) is that the original poster's avatar makes him look like he's just stepped out of the Blue Oyster in a Police Academy movie (a gay bar, in case you're too young to have witnessed the cinematic gold that is Police Academy...). I guess it's hard to tell from a small pic, but you look like you belong to the club you're trying to abolish.
Upallnight, the comment above was of course meant as irony and humour, and not a dig at your lifechoice.
There's really no way to give you a positive perspective on this, which I guess you are seeing yourself. These people hate with such blind passion that they themselves most probably don't understand and most definitely don't want to explore.
Just as they'd sign a petition to murder every Muslim because, again, they just have no idea, do not and do not want to understand. They are no doubt happy to go on believing every Muslim in the Middle East has a rifle pointed at an American soldier, and every Muslim in American has a bomb under their bed. Because Fox tells them it's so.
I feel for you man, I really do. We're around the same age, I think we've seen enough of life to realise that things most probably aren't going to get a lot better anytime soon.
I know it's probably far fetched and perhaps inconceivable, but if I was living in your country, and was myself a gay, I honestly think I'd be looking at ways to go live in another country.
For all this "Land of the Free" bullshit that gets thrown around, I cannot believe how far America actually seems from it.
I wish you luck on your search for peace.
Sadly, there will be no peace while bigots like the OP and MMO_Man live on, due to their complete and irrational hatred of something they are not willing to challenge themselves to understand.
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
I guess all these states are wrong too. The people made bad decisiions?
Read the facts my friend
Link
If you can't add anything to this discussion, then go troll somewhere else mmo_man, your annoying.. Also, for your information, I'm not a homosexual myself.
Well fuck. We've pretty much already gone and banned smoking in everywhere but the home. We're way ahead of you over here in America.
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
Fine, I'll just use the report feature then.
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
The numbers for 2005 are in, and the Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrate has done it again, shooting up a striking 2.5 percentage points. That makes nine consecutive years of average two-percentage-point increases in the Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrate, a rise unmatched by any country in Western Europe during the same period. Ever since the Dutch passed registered partnerships in 1997, followed by formal same-sex marriage in 2000, their out-of-wedlock birthrate has been moving up at a striking clip. That fact has created a serious problem for advocates of same-sex marriage. (For a visual on this, see the chart in “Going Dutch?” and imagine two further years of two-percentage point increases in 2004 and 2005.
n the last decade, only Eastern Europe has seen an increase in out-of-wedlock birthrates comparable to the Netherlands (even there, only Bulgaria’s rates are rising faster than the Netherlands’). Demographers explain the stunning increase in Eastern Europe’s out-of-wedlock birthrates by pointing to the economic and cultural traumas set off by the collapse of Communism. How striking that a prosperous country like the Netherlands should experience a spike in out-of-wedlock birthrates matched only by a region recovering from the collapse of its entire social system.
Once marriage stops being about binding mothers and fathers together for the sake of the children they create, the need to get married gradually disappears. That’s why I’ve argued that the successful campaign for same-sex marriage led to the spike in Dutch out-of-wedlock birthrates. A preliminary spike between 1994 and 1995 was likely influenced by this long public debate, even before formal passage of registered partnerships in 1997.
All indications are that the Dutch case is a causal smoking gun for gay marriage’s negative effects. Although the matter is fair game for continued debate, no one has yet offered a convincing alternative explanation, or even fully confronted the arguments already on the table. At a bare minimum, the rapid and ongoing deterioration of Dutch marriage shows that the “conservative case” for same-sex marriage has been proven wrong in the Netherlands. Convince the public that marriage is not about parenthood, and increasingly parents simply stop getting married.
article.nationalreview.com/
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
I say let the gays have legal marriage. This is a minor, minor, minor issue and not worth a fight that they will win in time anyway.
Far more important is the fight to preserve 2nd Amendment freedoms and to oppose restrictive gun control legislation on every front. Since gays lean mostly in the Leftist camp because of right-wing discrimination, we lose their valuable votes on more important issues such as fighting gun control.
Give them legalized gay marriage and swing their votes over to the Right.
"Although there is as yet no definitive scientific evidence linking the campaign for the legalization of same-sex marriage to the decline of marriage itself, there are reasons to believe such a link exis"
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Multi partner marriage is something diffrent.Your opinion is this
l = stop sign, no further.
Male - female Marriage ------l ----> Gay marriage ----------> multi partner marriage
Here is a silly idea.
Male - female marriage -----------> Gay Marriage ------l ----> Multi partner marriage
By your arguement, I say we might as well remove marriage all together, because hey, you let a male and female people marry, next they are going to let multi parners marriage as well!
If your 25 year old son, that you have raised and loved and spent a lot of time with, walked into the house and said "Dad, meet Luke. We're in love, I'm gay, and we're going to try and start a family", what would you do and/or say?
This is your son that you've cared for for 25 years and love dearly.
What would your reaction be?
"(The) Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W Bush.
Oh. My. God.
You look like a gay biker.
Just an observation.
lol, that made me laugh, you know hes right, outfctrl.
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It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
I agree completely. Part of what marriage is about is Tradition. Marriage has always been between 1 man and 1 woman. Anything else is breaking the tradition. It's about more than just legal status and so forth. Changing the tradition of marriage will make marriage less meaningful. If anyone can get married to anyone, then marriage doesn't matter anymore, and that's not something I will stand for.
Can't gay people just be happy with Civil Unions? It gives you the same legal status without ruining the tradition of marriage.
I just wish they'd let us have a vote up here in Canada, we didn't get any say in the matter and I'd feel pretty safe saying that most Canadians oppose gay marriage as well.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
You look like a gay biker.
Just an observation.
LoL spot on.
Really thats great... so does that mean if I belong to a religion that practices cannibalism or murder then the constitution will protect me?!?!?!
YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
It is not a minor issue, its a major issue.
The way to abolish marriage, without seeming to abolish it, is to redefine the institution out of existence. If everything can be marriage, pretty soon nothing will be marriage. Legalize gay marriage, followed by multi-partner marriage, and pretty soon the whole idea of marriage will be meaningless.
Some of you people just dont get it. WHERE DOES IT STOP???? It has to stop here. Period. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
I agree completely. Part of what marriage is about is Tradition. Marriage has always been between 1 man and 1 woman. Anything else is breaking the tradition. It's about more than just legal status and so forth. Changing the tradition of marriage will make marriage less meaningful. If anyone can get married to anyone, then marriage doesn't matter anymore, and that's not something I will stand for.
Can't gay people just be happy with Civil Unions? It gives you the same legal status without ruining the tradition of marriage.
I just wish they'd let us have a vote up here in Canada, we didn't get any say in the matter and I'd feel pretty safe saying that most Canadians oppose gay marriage as well.
That is truly beautiful. Your marriage only has meaning if you exclude other people from marrying. Only one group can marry (the one which you are obviously part of), while the other group can not (of which your not part of), because if the other group would be allowed to marry, then those poor, married couples would no longer feel that they are special.Says the gnome in a santa outfit .....
Yup..that fits you
First of all, that wouldnt happen because he has more grlfriends then anyone can imagine.
Second, he wouldnt even think about telling me that.
Third, If he did, then I would say " If thats your choice, so be it" I wouldnt love him any less. That still doesnt change my view on this subject. Not one iota. I am against it and I will stay against it, no matter what happens in my life.
So, my little gnome friend. You can hop around and say what you want and squeal your obnoxious gnome laugh. I have a perfect place for you on my motorcycle...........................up the exhaust pipe where the waste comes out.